10/09/2014 Scotland 2014

It must be serious when the politicians start swearing.

You have been warned - there has been bad language out

Scotland was treated to a visit from all three UK party leaders today.

All in different places but all here to tell us why they

David Cameron got a bit fruity when he said that people shouldn't

vote yes just to give the effing Tories a kicking.

Whilst Labour's former deputy leader John Prescott, in Rutherglen today,

said Cameron's visit was a "bloody hindrance".

So much for happy families in the no camp.

Tonight we'll be asking if it was good idea for the gang that Alex

Salmond called "Team Westminster" to come to Scotland at all?

And we're talking to the leader of the Green Party

And we'll be looking at what might happen to Scottish Tories

We're talking to one who is voting yes.

There is some good news for Better Together tonight.

A new opinion poll for the Daily Record suggests they once

That's not the result of the visit from three Westminster

It will be a few days before we know what effect that has

Alex Salmond was quick today to condemn what he called

"Team Westminster's" efforts as a last-ditch last-gasp.

But all three men made emotional pleas for Scots to

Because I would be heartbroken if this family of nations that we have

put together and that we have done such amazing things together, if

this family of nations was torn apart. I want to make the case to

you from the hard, because of the ties that bind us together and which

would be broken apart by separatism. This is a choice, a fundamental

choice, in the mentor 's choice that will affect everyone, north and

south of the border, which is therefore have. Who would have

thought one week ago we would see the three main party leaders in

Westminster, near to Scotland for what can only be described as a

last-minute love bomb. But will it be enough to persuade voters to vote

no on September 18? We're still 50-50. When you have seen the

politicians coming up to persuade people to vote now from Westminster,

could that change our mind? Maybe, yes, with everything that is

happening and the fact they are so strong willed about it and so eager

to get us back together. Me, no, I don't think so. I think it is too

little too late. They should have thought this through very much at

the beginning than going for Devo Max. They are crawling back now that

we want independence saying, you, we want you, we want you back, we want

a relationship, it is like breaking up with someone! Break-ups can be

bad. If the no campaign was trying to love bomb us, but everyone was in

a loving mood. Coming here with your 30 pieces of silver! 30 pieces of

silver! And one politician knew he would never win any popularity

contests. If you're fed up with the effing Tories, give them a kick and

maybe we will get rid of them. This is totally different to a general

election. This is a decision not about the next five years, it is

about the next century. For one no voting businessman, it was not about

love, it was about getting answers. The voters are scared to reject

independence because they think if they rejected, they will be left

with the status quo. I would like to find out what they are going to do

from Alistair. It's a desperate and last-minute, it never looks good,

but what will they do to make this about an option between gauge per

hours per Scotland and reversal both separation? -- drink greater powers.

They need to clarify the situation. The first Minister described this as

panicked and said it would only push wavering voters into the arms of the

yes campaigners. This is team Westminster panicking. Our campaign

is a key test on jobs. We want a powerhouse parliament that can have

jobs created. Team Westminster are just concerned about their own jobs.

Who will win the heart and mind? One thing is for sure, nobody is taking

the voters for granted. Joining me in the studio now,

Spectator blogger and no supporter Alex Massie and columnist

and yes supporter Ruth Wishart. Thank you both coming in, Alex, is

it a good idea to have David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg

all coming up to Scotland? It allows Alex Salmond to talk about team

Westminster and put them in a to team Scotland which is how he always

wanted to frame this debate. Yes, he wants it framed as a them and ask

kind of argument. This is obviously is showing this. He thinks, just

because I'm voting no, doesn't mean that I am anti-Scottish, the way you

are suggesting. And what we will see here is in some senses, no

supporters will be made more certain that they will vote no and yes

supporters would be more convinced that yes is the right thing to do,

and I do not think that today's events will change very much. Alex

Salmond is convinced this is a boost for the yes campaign to have the

Westminster people here, do you agree? I do not know, we will see in

a few days. A mix of three guys that had forgotten for birthdays and

three Valentine days and thought that they could pick up the flowers

at the garage forecourt! If they had come up once a week every week for

the last six months, the would be a point of it. To arrive mob handed in

one day and to describe missing out PMQs is a great sacrifice, I do not

buy that. It will possibly impact on the yes vote and possibly it will

not, but I do not think they did themselves any favours either way.

Does its little panicky? It is panicky. It is like they have woken

up and thought oh, well, the jocks might do this, have very strange!

Speaking to people inside the better together campaign, they are keen to

suggest that there is an element of panic but it is not quite as

panicking, it is panicking with a purpose. Which is true mind people

of the enormity of the decision that Scotland faces next week. By doing

that, they might persuade many voters that are flirting with the

idea of voting yes to draw back from the cliff edge and think it is safer

to vote no. Doesn't reinforce the problems of further devolution to

make sure they are serious and delivering on that? Although they

have promised further devolution, they have three different packages

and they have no agreement as to which package they will deliver.

Today, they had a case conference in advance and they decided what the

line was, and it was that the referendum is for life, not just for

Christmas, and they repeated that at five-minute intervals which is a

potent message. Are English Tory MPs on board with these promises of

further devolution? There are some mutterings about people that have

had no idea that of the last few days what was being promised, even

William Hague himself has said the statements made by the party leaders

in the last two days are statements by party leaders in a campaign, not

a statement of government policy. Even he doesn't sound like you

signed up to it. That is because of the regulations of conduct of

government policy during a referendum period, so they could

introduce any form a new policy, but it is clear that something has to

give and has to change, but backbench Tory MPs from the English

side will have to do as they are told. They have to swallow a lot of

things they disagree with as it is, and this is just one thing added to

that lengthy list. Will they swallow that? I think that is a charitable

view. It will be very, ferried difficult for them to deliver when

most of the parties down south haven't got the foggiest of what is

on offer, what is on the agenda, and the timetable is quite ridiculous.

Ambitious, think is the word. I meant to say ambitious! The idea

that it will come neatly and packages in November, January, in

time for the election in 2015, that seems ambitious. There is no doubt

that the Conservative Party didn't think that any Scotland Bill would

be needed for the first Queen's Speech of the next Parliament.

Events on the ground, contact with the enemy, that has caused them to

reappraise that plan and they have realised that this will have to

happen and happen much more quickly than they had previously planned.

Thank you for coming to talk to us. So, as you've heard, Nick Clegg took

to the streets of Selkirk to put Fiona Walker caught up with him

in the Lib Dem stronghold of the borders and asked him if he was

just preaching to the converted. I was keen to come here, it is part

of the Scotland that I know well. Nothing can be taken for granted

until the opinion polls are closed. This is a choice, it is not where we

can make it one day and undo it the next. This is a fundamental, moment

's choice that will affect everyone north and south of the border, which

is therefore ever. You cannot think of a bigger choice, and that is why

it is right that people are going to every part of Scotland to make their

views known on both sides of the Regiment. People are looking for a

fact in all of this. Yesterday, your party signed up to this timetable, a

definite timetable where there is some wishy-washy bill of stuff that

we don't really know. We cannot really expect people to make up

their mind on the basis of an unknown like that. It is not

wishy-washy at all. Read the report from Menzies Campbell. Read that

report. Read the Strathclyde report from the Conservatives, read what

the Labour Party are proposing, look at what's David Cameron, Ed Miliband

and I said on August five. This is the first time in my living memory

that all parties have said that there will be new tax bands, new

borrowing powers, new welfare control, and people say... You're

all saying different things. Yellow marker there is a huge edible

wrapping. -- there is a huge amount of overlapping. The status quo is

gone. For someone that comes from a party, the Liberal party,

campaigning for home rule for Scotland back in the 1880s, people

say this as a last minute thing. We have campaigned on this for over a

century and it is finally going to be delivered. That is an exciting

prospect of change. For anyone believes as I do in greater home

rule for Scotland, but within the stability and security of the family

of nations of the UK, provided to all constituent parts of that United

Kingdom. If you had been campaigning for this for so long, why did we

only get this timetable yesterday? Some people have already had a

postal vote. You'll marker the Campbell report that we published on

home rule, the Strathclyde report, they came out months ago. The

agreement from David Cameron, Ed Miliband and myself, for all three

party leaders say devolution will happen, it will happen on the 5th of

August. The nuts and bolts is that the final instalment is there, so

everyone knows it will happen. I do not think it would be right for the

three main parties to say, here is a tablet of stone, this is what will

happen. We need to make sure, and this will happen from day one after

the referendum, when I help the decision is taken that Scotland will

remain part of the UK, that there will be a period of time when the

people of Scotland, the Civic Society, the churches, communities,

villages, towns and cities, they can make their views known about what

this new, exciting chapter of devolution should include. That will

be possible during our Toba and November and until the end of the

year. Why do the coalition government not Oxford Ivo Max in the

ballot paper? You cannot do this unless you first decide that

Scotland will remain in the UK. You cannot have a decision about what is

the next chapter of devolution unless you first decide that

Scotland will remain a party of the United Kingdom in the first base. To

have a mix and match of different questions and options, that would

not be right, you have to have this family of nations for we had an

extraordinary things with our generations, we have created the

BBC, we created the NHS, Team GB has excelled in the London Olympics,

these are things that we should celebrate now by retaining the UK

and Scotland's place in it and then from day one, after that decision is

taken, the next chapter of further devolution to Scotland can take

place. Have you done enough to save the union? It is not my decision. It

is for the people of Scotland. But clearly, the referendum campaign has

entered into a very, very exciting final phase and that is why I think

it is right that everybody should speak up for the kind of future that

they believe in. My children and my grandchildren will be as affected by

this momentous decision as anybody else. But they will not have a vote

if they remain living in England. But it will still shape the family

of nations of the UK, which as I say, we had an extraordinary things

and we should be very proud. I believe there are huge differences

between Scotland and England and being part of the UK, and we can

celebrate those differences. They can develop further in the future

without ripping apart and severing of these links that bind us all

together. The No campaign also welcomed

statements from a couple of large Standard Life who employ 5,000

people in Scotland said they were planning to transfer some parts

of their business to England While BP said they believe "that

the future prospects for the North Sea are best served by maintaining

the existing capacity and integrity Also, the governor of the bank

of England Mark Carney appeared before the Treasury Select Committee

in Westminster where he said an independent Scotland would have to

keep over ?25 billion in reserve if it was to continue using the pound

without a formal currency union. The other countries, like the Baltic

states, they have a magnitude of reserves. The order of about 25%. So

what do the Yes campaign make of that? Green MSP for Glasgow and Yes

man Patrick Harvie joins me now. Three politcians up from

Westminster. It does make it pretty clear that they had a very cobbled

together meeting. That is how seriously they are taking it. This

referendum has been taking three years. It has been coming for a long

time. And yet we have this last minute, cobbled together a

arrangement. It does not take Scotland seriously. All the debate.

But does that matter? It is not about party leaders. Small parties

or big parties. Not about television debates. It is happening freight

across the country. I think a sense of an momentum, Scotland and

democracy have already won. Nothing is going to be the same again, which

ever way it goes. I think it will be better with the Yes vote but

democracy has changed. When people have conversations they are going to

be influenced by economic factors, like Standard Life, and the Governor

of the Bank of England. That is going to affect the conversations?

Absolutely. I think most people can't be clear, negotiation about

currency, compromise, it can only come about in the event of the Yes

vote. -- can. People think Standard Life will send jobs to England. That

is going to make them worried. I suspect what BP really mean is the

future of status quo policy on North Sea oil. It is not just to pursue

another 30 or 40 years. It is to use a shorter term, to fund transition

away. As the ridges are reliance on fossil fuels, we have got the

resources and police to transition towards renewables. Not just handing

them to another bunch of multinationals, but a mix of

private, public and community owned. That is the exciting future Scotland

has not only every take responsibility for setting those

policies. An opinion poll in the daily record shows that 53% say they

are going to vote no. 47% in favour of the Yes vote. It suggests

momentum may not be moving? Have different methodologies. -- The

different polls have. 70, 80% will hopefully take part in this. A large

part of the electorate that have been ignoring elections. A lot of

them will be younger people, people from socially deprived locations,

less likely to have landlines. This is one of the exciting things, the

idea that an electorate, the public, it is weakening and remembering that

they are in peril, not people like myself, MPs, we are supposed to be

the servants. -- in power. If that can last after the referendum, in

either scenario, I want a Yes vote, but it could be the most important

thing that has happened in Scotland. You may think that it's cut and dry

when it comes to supporters of the Conservative and Unionist party and

their position on the referendum... Tonight, though, we'll hear

from one Tory who's voting Yes next What does the future hold

for Conservatism in Scotland Sir Anthony back at Number ten. The

1950s was a fantastic time for the Conservatives. They won the more

seeds of any party in Scotland. No other party has done it since. But

the Conservatives have spent time trying to remain relevant in

Scotland. They are called the Conservative and Unionist party. But

they have not always shied away from Gavin Powers to Scotland. -- giving.

We give the people of Scotland participation in the making of all

decisions that affect them and to do this within the United Kingdom.

After the 1979 referendum field to deliver a Scottish Government, they

were epitomised by Margaret Thatcher. Not that popular in

Scotland. At its lowest point, was it leaked out in 1997. -- wiped.

Ironically, it is under the devolution system, something they

opposed... That the art insightful in Scotland. -- That they are a

slight force. Joining me now, Spectator blogger Alex Massie who we

spoke to earlier, and Moray Macdonald, former director of the

Scottish Conservative Party and former Tory candidate for

Westminster. You have come out of the closet as a Yes vote? It was not

very difficult for me. I want to bring democracy closer to the

people. How rare a species OC? -- is he? Very. The yes campaign has in

many ways the Nant and tight Conservative campaign. No effort has

been made to persuade Tories to support the cause. You do not need

many buses to carry Conservatives who well be supporting the Yes vote.

One of the things that is frustrating me is that increasingly,

people feel detached from Westminster. Actually, Scottish MSP

is also feel quite detached. Then I go to The Wanted, and the view

Scotland very differently. -- When I go to London. The fundamental reason

I think this is important, it is because the Conservatives have brand

issues, but potentially, a very strong centre-right vote. No

Parliament, they do not have the power. It is pretty marginal. We are

not going to have a powerful parliament until the people are

actually electing people who are responsible for taking the money out

of your pocket. I agree with him on that. Labour boss of that, it is a

Parliament with the peril to spend but not the power to raise money.

Centre-right politics is always good to struggle when an auction of left

of centre parties compete to see who can devote the greatest number of

Swedes. -- sweets. Independence or an autonomous Scottish parliament

would be a useful British ground. -- breeding. It is the Scottish

Parliament that the Conservatives did not want to have. Elected by a

system of proportional representation. That means you are

not completely wiped out in Scotland? Politics is full of irony.

Devolution probably was not the correct thing for Scotland.

Independence will actually give us the peril that we want. -- power.

Scotland will be a very strong player in the international

community. I want a centre-right party to be a strong part of the

Parliament. Would one of govern an independent Scotland? Who knows. The

reality is that an independence referendum passion because

monumental change. I suspect the Parliament, two or three after that,

would be different. Look how different it is at the moment as it

was in 9099. -- 1999. The natural divide in Scottish politics as

between Labour and the Liberal Democrats, analyse, and a

conservative alliance on the other side. I think you could say

something like that. The alignment. When it comes to issues, mainly

people in Scotland are actually in favour of many conservative

policies... That visit. Thank you for watching. I'll be back at the

same time tomorrow night. Do please join me then.

This programme contains some strong language.