28/10/2015 Scotland 2015

Stabbing at an Aberdeen school - one 16-year-old boy is dead,

Family and friends of schoolboy Bailey Gwynne are this evening

He was stabbed at Cults Academy in Aberdeen during the school day.

Has a Scottish University overreached its ambition?

Two years on from setting up in New York, Glasgow Caledonian still

doesn't have a licence to teach degree courses.

And new research suggests we think of ourselves as Scottish,

What will that mean for the in-out referendum?

He went to school as normal, but didn't come home.

16-year-old Bailey Gwynne was stabbed at his Aberdeen

Police are treating the death at Cults Academy as a murder inquiry.

Another 16-year-old male was detained after the emergency

Huw Williams's report contains flash photography.

The boy who died has been named locally as 16-year-old Bailey

Gwynne. The headteacher at Cults Academy paid tribute him.

The boy involved was a very gentle, caring pupil with a lot of friends.

I think it's fair to say the whole school and community is

But at the moment, of course, our thoughts are with

the boy's family, his family and his friends, and what they must be

I would just like to add Aberdeen City Council's deep consoles is to

the family of the victim. -- condolences. Also to say the school

will be closed to help with the police investigation for the next

two days. We have a course put in place counselling and support for

all staff and students and we send our condolences to all involved in

this incident. Tonight, local people have been

gathering at a later by church. At times like this, we feel terribly

useless and there are no easy answers, but the one thing we felt

we could do was open our church. It is a safe place, a listening place,

it gentle place. It was something we could do tonight and we will do it

again tomorrow. Earlier in the day, confusion and

shock as people outside the school heard the news about what had

happened. I've just arrived at the school to

see police outside the door, I have three children in the school and I

know nothing. There are many things going around,

what has happened, what was used, who was involved. I called my

brother straightaway, he he said he saw it but couldn't tell me

anything. They are all being kept inside.

The First Minister took to Twitter to express her thoughts at a local

Councillor who went to the academy herself struggled to find the words

to say what she wanted. It is sheer shock. When I was told

of the incident and the subsequent death, I felt like I had been

physically head. It was so unexpected. As a parent myself, I

can only imagine the heartache that that family will go through.

Police Scotland have confirmed they are currently conducting an murder

investigation. A teenager is in custody.

We have a team of staff you are interviewing unfortunately teens and

teachers of Cults Academy you are significantly affected by this

matter. Antennae a former student at Cults

Academy had this message for students affected by what happened.

It is incredibly important that they know that there were support

available. I have 100% stated that the council and school will be

available, if they are having concerns or difficulty dealing with

this, they need just be the people. Police say they will be maintaining

a presence in the area for the foreseeable future.

We can cross live now to Aberdeen and speak to our reporter there,

What is the latest? That 16-year-old boy is still being

detained by police and clearly they will now continue, if they haven't

already started, to question him about the incident that happened

around lunchtime today in the school behind me, now specially trained

family liaison officers are with Bailey Gwynne's family, clearly

relaying to them information as they have it about what happened. What

will happen next is police will begin if they have not already that

process of taking statements. They said today that many, if not all, of

the people who witnessed the incident that happened in the school

today behind me were school pupils, so clearly this will be a very

delicate and painstaking operation. Aberdeen City Council is offering

counselling today and tomorrow and the rest of the week, in fact at any

time to students and staff who have been affected by what has happened

in the school. The school. This cool it for the rest of the week.

Have you spoken to many of the parents their? What is the reaction

amongst parents their? This is a very affluent part of

Aberdeen. It is an area where many very well-paid people who work in

the oil and gas industry in Aberdeen blazer. There are very high-value

houses in this neighbourhood and this is an area where parents take

an extremely keen interest in what is happening with their children and

clearly a lot of those people will be extremely anxious and concerned

today. In fact, outside the gates today this afternoon, and many other

parents were here, perhaps just for reassurance, to be able to speak to

their own children, but also to find out more about what has been

happening. One particular parent is said today that they were

considering withdrawing their children from the school. That is

clearly something that is likely to be considered by many of the parents

of students at the school today and of course the school itself, the

head teacher and teaching staff and the City Council, will be seeking to

try and reassure those parents about the safety of students within those

corridors. Thank you very much.

I am joined now by Jim Thewliss, who is the General Secretary

of School Leaders Scotland, the body which represents headteachers.

Thank you for coming in. What is your reaction to this?

My reaction is the same as any other teacher, any other parent. First of

all, shock at what has happened. It was a truly horrible incident. Going

on from that, just the sheer waste of a young life and thereafter the

trauma and the heart ache that two families, perhaps more than two

families, in Aberdeen are going to have to put up with and live with

going on from here. And the trauma and the challenge that the school

will now face in supporting school staff and supporting the young

people within the school and working within the school community, the

wider school community, to get the school community past what has been

a truly horrific experience. We have heard that there is support

available for students. What about for the headteacher?

There be support for the head teacher and students within the

school and these teachers. My understanding is that the school

authority well altogether along with the staff at the school to support

the entire community. My organisation supports leadership

throughout Scotland, leaders throughout Scotland, I have been in

contact with the head teacher in the school. We will offer support in the

normal way in which we weren't under the sort of circumstance.

Obviously schools have a duty of care towards their students. How

much can you do to keep them safe? Schools, teachers working with the

parent body, work hard at making sure that the young people learn how

to make correct choices. If they make correct choices, then the

lifestyle which they lead will be a lifestyle which does not hinge on

what we have seen this afternoon from time to time. Young people will

make less than good choices from time to time, and carrying a knife

is a choice. In the majority of occasions, we get through the young

people that it is the bad choice to take. If you choose to carry a knife

or choose not to carry a knife, you are not placed in the position to

have the decision, we'll use it or not? In the majority of situations,

we yet young people to make good choices in all aspects of the

lifestyles. Thank you very much for coming in

this evening. The market for university

degrees and research is global. Scottish universities are competing

at home and abroad for students, Two years ago, Glasgow Caledonian

University became the first from the UK to open a campus in

New York, as its international But the project has

yet to pay dividends. The university is still working to

win It's a Scottish university

with global ambitions. Glasgow Caledonian is working to

build its international reputation with college partnerships

in Bangladesh and by opening New York is firmly established and

beginning to thrive and beginning The university Principal

seems happy with progress. But breaking into the New York

market is proving far harder than They applied for degree granting

authority in early 2013 and, two-and-a-half years later, they are

still waiting to secure a licence. I always want Scottish universities

to harness opportunities across the world, but we have here is a

university's ambition going far ahead of what they can deliver in

reality. What we are left with is a very expensive white elephant.

University bosses say Labour's criticism is grossly unfair.

It is a good investment, as far as we're concerned.

We assessed the risks at the time and decided that it was

In September 2013, they signed a 15-year lease

The campus opened for business in April 2014 by Alex Salmond.

?5.6 million had been spent by October of this year,

although they insist none of this draws on public funds.

that is the refit of the building and the staff we have there.

It is worrying, in an age of wage restraint and

austerity in general, that money is being used in quite a speculative

project which the unions have always thought was too high-risk to get

An international strategy could best be pursued through other means.

Such as? Targeting markets within the European Union where we could

have much easier links, working jointly with campuses in other

countries including America, instead of launching our own campus.

The New York campus has brought in some cash from teaching short,

non-degree courses to business and securing its first research grant.

It has also attracted some high-profile endorsements.

Glasgow Caledonian is the first Scottish university to

establish a campus here in New York and is a fantastic development.

Glasgow Caledonian is not expecting to hear a decision on its New York

application before the new year, but it remains convinced

its international investment will eventually pay off.

Joining me now to talk about the advantages and possible pitfalls of

exporting Scottish education, from our Edinburgh studio, is Lindsay

Paterson, Professor of Education Policy at Edinburgh University.

Good evening. Tell me first of all, it is pretty risky to set up a

Scottish university somewhere like New York, isn't it? It is not

exactly short of top class universities. Why do we?

This business of setting up what is sometimes called the branch campuses

across the road became very fashionable at the ten years ago. It

is honestly passed its peak, there is a lot fewer of these things going

on. A lot of those that have done these kind of things, setting up

campuses in Asia, setting up a campus in New York, oversupplied

with universities, which has some very distinguished universities, to

a the best universities in the world, does seem to me to be quite

risky, bold, but not guaranteed to succeed.

What does a foreign student get from attending say a Scottish university

in their own country as opposed to coming to Scotland?

There are good educational grants for really being quite skeptical

about this process of the branch campuses. If we for example say that

part of the advantage of coming to a multicultural university with

students from across the world is that you meet people from across the

world and also by coming to Tallinn or Britain or Europe, you of sort

something out the throw open critical free debate that we write

ourselves on celebrating here, then you're not going to get that. If

you're campuses in a campus that is not liberal or open the if your boy

to go to a liberal critical university in New York, you would

think it would be better to go to one of the excellent universities in

New York. That is a separate issue. Many the branch campuses are in

areas that are quite problematic is far as free open to be is concerned.

It is far more attractive on educational and the programmes to

get people to come here rather than for if you stop to go there.

Do you have any concerns about polity when this Scottish education

is taken abroad? How is that monitor?

The monitoring is in the hands of the universities autonomy 's bodies.

They are entitled to do what they want with their money and hire staff

anywhere in the world. I think the concert is not so much that they

might be hiring the staff, but it is the number of staff is really quite

small. If you come to a large university, most of the universities

and Stalin are large, you come into contact potential in with many staff

and hundreds of potentially a enormously diverse history, great

libraries, great social facilities. You're not quick to get that in what

are always really quite small branch campuses as burst across various

countries across the world. Is there a danger it could damage

the brand here? You would hope that the management is indeed making sure

that the finances of thesent tease are ringfenced. They will not

impinge on the viability of the universities here. There is the

processes of public scrutiny and audit that would make sure that

would be the case. There is no danger of actually a real threat to

the core activity here. What is more of a danger is perhaps a damage to

reputation. I mean, you could caricature this. It's not untrue pie

by saying it's UK universities being under funded by the state trying to

hock there goods across the world in a shoddy world. I think that's going

too far. The things we're trying to do in education are tarnished

slightly. Thank you very much for joining me.

The Prime Minister warned today that the UK would lose out if we were to

move to a relationship with the EU more like Iceland or Norway's.

His comments come as new research suggests that fewer than one in

David Cameron arrived in Iceland this evening ahead of an annual

meeting with Nordic leaders. Before he left for the summit he was keen

to challenge eurosceptic views that countries like Iceland and Norway

thrive outside of the EU. Some who argue they want the UK to leave they

are not burdened by membership fees and are free to strike their own

trade deals. The Prime Minister questioned those who want to emulate

a Norwegian-style relationship with the EU. Norway actually pays as much

per head to the EU as we do. They actually take twice as many per head

migrants as we do in this country. But, of course, they have no seat at

the table, no ability to negotiate. As the debate on the future of

Britain's place in Europe heats up, pollster's attentions have turned to

our attitudes towards the European Union. Research published last week

found that 58% of those living in Scotland wanted to remain and only

28% wanted to leave the EU. This was in contrast to 45% in England

wanting to stay, and 35% wanting to leave. So do Scots feel more

European than the rest of the UK? New research published today

suggests not. With only 9% of Scots identifying as European, compared

with 15% in the rest of the UK. Overall, it's clear the UK doesn't

feel as European as our continental neighbours, suggesting that

arguments around economics and migration will be the main focus for

both the leave and remain campaign groups.

I am joined now from our Edinburgh studio by Rachel Ormston, who is

co-director of the Scottish Social Attitudes survey

and author of today's report - Do we feel European and does it matter?

Good evening, Rachel. Does it matter The short answer is, not as much as

other things. As your report said, people in Britain, as a whole, and

particularly in Scotland, don't tend to say they feel particularly

European when you ask them how they describe themselves as British,

Scottish, English anything else with European on that list. European is

not a particularly common answer. While it's true that people who do

say they feel European are likely to want to stay in the EU actually

amongst the bulk of people who don't most people say they want to stay in

the EU. most people say they want to stay in

kind of matters of identity are going to matter that much

to identify as European as people in England? I was, initially. You

expect in some ways, given the discussions of links with Nordic

countries in the north Scotland and the alliances and the fact we know

that people in Scotland are slightly more likely to be in favour of

Britain staying in the EU that they would also feel more European. I

think my hunch would be that actually in Scotland the debate

around how Scottish we feel actually in Scotland the debate

out during the Coatbridge College emergencier. MSP's on the public

audit committee heard evidence today from the former college Principal,

John Doyle. It's incomplete and vexatious. It was based on a scheme

for all colleges in Lanarkshire. So I take exception to the way in

which, as the auditor Auditor General said herself, limited

evidence, our reputations have been absolutely trashed when we've done

nothing wrong. What do you make of it all, Ruth? It's quite

extraordinary when you think about it. It was described locally as

three funerals and a wedding when these colleges got together. The

fact remains a small number of senior managers got by far the

lion's share of the severance payments. There is a strong

suspicion that the Scottish funding council, who issued guidelines for

these payments, Thai evidence wasn't properly considered by the

remuneration committee in the college itself. I think, I mean he

is perfectly entitled to say he has done nothing wrong. In the court of

public opinion I would guess people think he has been well over commend

xen compensated. What do you make of it? It's an extraordinary amount of

money. Two-and-a-half years worth of pay he was awarded, Mr Doyle. If you

step back from this process there has been a big structuring. Three

colleges into one. Any business person doing a restructuring will

tell you they will do that there will be redundancies. You are making

post redundant. The process of managing those redundancies or

managing the voluntariself recipes packages have been badly managed.

Large sums of public money have been spent, I agree with Ruth,

disproportionately towards those well-paid members of staff. It's

pretty clear. Another story that involves vast sums of money. A

multi-million-pound settlement has been reached with Fife Council over

unequal pay. Let us listen in to what the two sides made of the deal.

We are talking millions of pounds. And, we are working through the fine

detail of that cost and as soon as we completed that exercise that will

enable us to move forward and progress payments to staff and then

to make public the overall cost to the council. It's a very significant

multiple million pound cost which we will need to address alongside

addressing the budget cap that we have going forward -- gap. It's in

the order of ?75 million. It's not just about obtaining money for the

women brave enough to take on their employer. Albeit that is incredible

important. Unison obtained a commitment from the Council to look

again at certain jobs we have concerns about that. That will

ensure, going forward, that all women will be fairly paid within

Fife. Bad for the Council, Ruth, pretty good news for the women

involved? It's bad for the Council. I feel slightly sorry for the

Council in as much they are having the sins of previous administrations

visited on them at a time of huge austerity. This is a soap opera that

has been ten years in the making. It goes back to a time when, for

instance, male road sweepers and male refuge collectors were paid

significantly more than women who were perhaps care assistants or

catering assistants or classroom assistants. It was because deals

were done. Some kind of weird deals were done where the men's jobs

carried huge bonuses the women's jobs didn't. It's nice the unions

are backing them now. At the time, at the beginning, the union was

giving equal pay a bit of a body swerve, to be frank. Do you think

attitudes have changed now, Kevin? You are an employer yourself. Are

you surprised that that gap existed for people doing similar types of

work? I am actually as an employer. There are three types of wage

discrimination that happens. There is what is referred to as the

"motherhood penalty" occupational segregation. Those need addressing

and will take time to address. What we are dealing with is direct

discrimination. People doing the same job, jobs to the same value,

being paid a different rate because of their gender. I find it kroerd in

this day and age, 100 years since the suffragettes we are working

through the progress of making sure we don't have gender segregation

through pay. 40 years since the Equal Pay Act. Women are being paid

80p in the ?1 against men is quite extraordinary. It's indefensively.

It's a huge pay difficult reasonsal considering how long that

legislation has been in place. I remember when that legislation came

out. For instance, a major shoe chain in Scotland which overnight

promoted all its men to assistant managers so they weren't doing work

of comparable value to the female sales assistants. It's a

longstanding soap opera. I'm glad these women got the money and it's

sad today's Council had to pick up the tab. If we were more open,

talked about our salaries? As an employer I always twitch when I hear

that. I mean, certainly within our business, I've taken the view - you

have to assume that everyone is talking to everybody and everybody

know what is everybody is paid. But, they don't! But they don't. You

should assume that. You could look any employee in the eye and defend

what another employee is getting paid. Clearly in this case they

couldn't. Finance you applied that rule to yourself you would end up

with fair pay. Most small entrepreneurial to medium-sized

businesses do that. The larger businesses and councils who get into

difficulty. From every job job - We are out of time. We have to leave

it. There we could talk for longer. Thank you for watching.

I'm back the same time tomorrow night.