09/12/2015 Scotland 2015

It was a blatant lie to further his own electoral

interests but not enough to cost Alistair Carmichael his

Former Scottish Secretary Alistair Carmichael

survives a legal challenge to oust him as MP...but at what cost

to the reputation of him and his party?

And the leader of Labour's In Campaign comes north

to explain why he thinks Britain is better together

It's irrelevant in the sense that the referendum won't be

about the package that Cameron is negotiating.

It'll be do you want to stay in or come out.

Two learned judges agreed that Alistair Carmichael told a "blatant

lie", his behaviour was "at best disingenuous, at worse

Not the sort of stuff you'd want on your CV.

But in the end they ruled he broke no laws when he misled voters,

saying he was not the source of a damaging leak against

the First Minister, when all along he knew that he was.

In a moment, we'll discuss where this leaves Mr Carmichael.

This is the moment Alistair Carmichael learned he would not be

losing his job as the Orkney and Shetland MP. The judges have

determined that the petition be dismissed and have certified that

the honourable member for that constituency was duly returned at

the said election. The judges heard evidence in the three-day court

hearing about a month ago and today they delivered their findings. They

concluded while he had not broken election law, he had told what they

describe as a blatant but simple lie when asked by a Channel 4 programme

about his knowledge of the leak. This is on public record, I received

a phone call on Friday afternoon from a journalist making it. The

judges said Mr Carmichael s response judges said Mr Carmichael's response

to the enquiry was at best disingenuous and at worst evasive

and self-serving. Although Mr Khan Michael keeps his job, the

petitioners do not see the ruling as a failure for them. We held our

representative to account in open court he has accounted for his

actions. The verdict isn't a vindication of Alistair Carmichael.

He has been described as evasive and self-serving. He may have won but it

is not a victory with much honour. The reaction has been mixed. To me,

the fuss was from the SNP hoping to become SNP up here and it backfired.

It is a mistake, he should have resigned. I am pleased on a personal

front for him but it is a shame he lied in the first place. I am

delighted. I think he has done a lot for Shetland. He is a proven liar,

he admitted it. He has permission to carry on lying until the next

election. Despite criticism from judges, he says he is happy with the

outcome. I was confident we would win, that has been the basis we

approach this but despite that it has been a difficult and stressful

and expensive few months for me and my family and I have been cleared

today of the breach of the Representation of the People Act

that was put against me by nationalists who brought what has

been a highly politically motivated case. The SNP feels differently. The

only politically inspired acts in this as admitted by Mr Carmichael

who was leaking a memo he knew to be false in order somehow to try to

attack the Scottish National Party. Other politicians play despite the

ruling, Carmichael should go. I would like to see the people of

Orkney and Shetland voice judgment on Mr Carmichael, I asked him to

consider his position. The question now is what should the Lib Dems do?

They are moving on anyway. For Alistair Carmichael it is a simple

case of get your heads down and work hard and reconnect with your

constituents and prove you deserve to be re-elected. This has been a

rare use of what has in the past been an obscure piece of

legislation. Legal observers say it is significant. The ruling is

important because it establishes the law can apply to statements by a

candidate about himself and politically because as a judgment it

puts him in a bad light. He came close to losing his seat.

Politically it is embarrassing but he does not have to face real

election for a few years. The majority in the May election fell

from 10,002 under 900. He has avoided a loss of his job today but

he is still being investigated by the Parliamentary Commissioner for

standards. Tonight he says he looks forward to the next 4.5 years

Joining me now to chew this all over is the Scotland Editor

You sat through a lot of the evidence in court, can you

understand having listened to that why the judges came to the

conclusion they did? Yes, I can because when Carmichael stood in the

dock, he was basically flogged in public by the petitioners s QC, he

public by the petitioners's QC, he had a series of devastating

disclosures to making court about how systematically and persistently

Carmichael had evaded and blocked and lied over his precise role in

leaking the memo in the run-up to the election. It was not a pretty

sight. Alistair Carmichael knew he would be in for a rough ride and I

think his decision at that stage was he had to accept the public flogging

as part of penance and the process of accepting he miscalculated. The

judgment seems to accept that leaking against rivals is a normal

part of political life, that lying about the leak would only have

breached the law had Alistair Carmichael set himself up as

somebody who would never have indulged in that sort of behaviour.

It is not so much for standards we expect. Well, I found a lot of the

way the judges set back case out to be disingenuous and naive with

respect because what they were doing was setting out a set of moral

standards which they, having known politics is never observed, had to

be applied in the case. The practice of leaking is something all

political parties do, lots of politicians have got into power to

artful and diligent leaking, the difficulty for Carmichael was what

he did was so mishandled in a technical sense, there are better

ways and more intelligent ways to leak, his aide leaked the document

using a government phone so it was obvious to find out who made the

call in the first place. But the issue about the wider, the

particular specific legal point about why Carmichael was able to

evade this piece of legislation is down to the act itself. The act has

a particular reading and understanding of what it is a

candidate is an election has to do to run foul of this legal

prohibition against maligning your opponents or by acting in some way

which pretends you are a type of person that you're not. That is the

key test of the judges had to satisfy. We have heard Alistair

Carmichael complain the case brought against him was highly politically

motivated, is that which given what the judges said about his own

motivation? Well, this particular process is of itself a peculiar

process. In a sense, it is not a proper judicial process, much of the

evidence entered was the kind that would never have run in a proper

criminal Court, we did not hear from the principal actors apart from

Carmichael, we did not hear from the civil servant or the French consul

general who gave the briefing, we did not even see any of the original

primary documentary evidence, what this was was a democratic expression

of people s right to challenge their MP. It was interesting the litigants

raised their money through crowd sourcing and I imagine very large

chunk came from people that were not affected directly by this, by people

who are not constituents in Orkney and Shetland. The process is very

odd. When I watched in court and listened to Jonathan Mitchell, the

QC for the petitioners, it became quite bizarre, very politicised the

way he presented himself. Jonathan Mitchell himself is a lawyer who is

part of the pro-independence campaign, he has acted in the past

on behalf of the SNP. You got the sense that it was a political event

and there were things he was saying about Simon Johnson at the Telegraph

which were highly political judgments. And this isn't over yet

for Alistair Carmichael. The Parliamentary standards Commissioner

is still investigating. Yes, this is going to be another area of pain for

Carmichael. She can make a series of recommendations, some of the

outcomes can be quite soft, an apology or she might clear him and

say he has not breached the code of conduct but at worst she could refer

his case and say she feels he has breached the code of conduct, refer

it to the standards committee in the House of Commons which would then

hear evidence again and they could suspend him from the house. Now, I

don't think the offences for which he is being tried or examined upon

are as serious as other MPs transgressed in -- transgressions in

the past. He has apologised and forgone his ministerial severance

pay and has been humiliated by the judgment and he has had severe

damage to his political career. I suspect they may ask him to

apologise to the house. It is humiliating. OK, we must leave it

there. Thank you for coming in. The Prime Minister continues his

push for a reformed European Union this month, as the campaigns

for Britain to leave and remain Last month David Cameron set

out his proposals for changes in the UK's relationship

with the EU. Those have been met with resistance

in Brussels and have been criticised for a lack of ambition

by anti-EU groups at home. Plenty for him to do then

as another referendum looms. We are now two years at most for my

vote on Britain s future in the vote on Britain's future in the

European project and David Cameron has not ruled out campaigning for

Britain to leave altogether. That is if his demands for a new settlements

with his partners are not met. Top of the wish list, restricting EU

migrants access to in work benefits such as tax credits. That is one the

PM has won a few points on the political right at home but it has

not gone down well with those he is trying to persuade. This week, the

president of the European Council said there were substantial

political differences over curbing welfare for thousands of workers

coming to the UK from other EU countries. And Donald

Tusk has written to EU leaders warning the uncertainty over

Britain s place in Europe was destabilising. They will get the

chance to talk about it in person next week at a summit of the

European Council. It is unlikely any agreement will be reached in the

meeting but the Prime minister is confident his voice is being heard

in Europe. And he might take encouragement from history. In the

negot 1970s a Tory Prime minister negot

The former Home Secretary and leader of Labour's pro-EU campaign,

Has he learned lessons from last year's Better Together referendum

I began by asking him why Labour wasn't campaigning alongside pro-EU

iated a reduction in Britain's contributions. Like Margaret

Thatcher, David Cameron s task is to Thatcher, David Cameron's task is to

win over sceptics at home and make friends abroad. Dosh we are a labour

campaign, we believe there was a place for a Labour Party message. A

distinctive message about the social dimension dosh we are a Labour

campaign, we believe there is a place for a Labour Party message. A

distinctive message about the social dimension right for part-timers to

be paid the same as full-time as, the protection of workers rights

that have come through Europe. In terms of paternity leave, maternity

leave, the right to paid holidays, the right for part-timers to be paid

the same as an short-term contracts to be protected. Those emanate from

a desire in Europe that there is a single market but a market with

protections for workers and a market and the environment. That dimension,

that social dimension is very much what Labour is all about. And I wish

the and the environment. That dimension, that social dimension is

very much what Labour is all about. And I wish the umbrella but the

their branches nothave instructed their branches not to get involved

in the campaign at all so we are the only national party of significance

arguing unequivocally for Britain to remain in the European Union.

You have been emphasising the security of following the Paris

attacks. If you believe in solidarity it has to be more than an

expression. You have to work with other countries on the continent.

The anti-organised crime dimensional is important. The European Arrest

Warrant only applies in European countries. Organised crime will go

to where they think they are safest from retribution and if you are a

country outside the European Union you stand a better chance of

organised crime organising in the UK. So there is a security dimension

to this. A survey in a few weeks ago for The Daily Mail showed 41%

thought we were safer in Europe as against 29%. What about in work

benefits for EU migrants? What is your position? This negotiation that

is going on is a sideshow. It is irrelevant in the sense that the

referendum will not be about the package that David Cameron is

because shooting. Is this an issue that the electorate in Scotland is

concerned about? The European Union needs reform. There is not an

institution any fear that does not need reform. At the last election we

said habitual residence should be two years, not four years. The EU

reform is a process. It is through being committed and building

alliances, not by standing next to the exit door and issuing threats.

Is there anything that needs reform? There are reforms that can be made.

There are reforms in terms of the employers that take over people from

Eastern Europe when they could be using people from the UK and

sometimes they do that by distorting the agency workers directive which

we would like to clear up those loopholes in that elective. That is

not on the agenda of David Cameron but I think it is an important

aspect of this. At the entire approach, what David Cameron is

doing is about the future of the Conservative Party, not the future

of the country. This campaign is not waiting for him to come back from

his the course uses. We are out there now. That has nothing to do

with the package of David Cameron. How helpful is that your party is

led by someone who is at best lukewarm towards Europe. He is not

stopping got a leader of our campaign who committed. Jeremy

Corbyn said he is proud to support the Labour campaign to stay part of

the European Union and he has been saying that ever since he asked me

to carry on reading the campaign. 215 of the 231 Labour MPs including

the entire front bench are signed up to Britain remaining in the European

Union. There is only a handful of our colleagues who take a different

view. This is very much the Labour Party campaign, not a fringe group

of the Labour Party. That is the Labour Party I doing right across

the UK including in Northern Ireland for a button to stay in the European

Union. Well representing the flipside

of the EU referendum debate in our London studio is former

Labour MP Nigel Griffiths You would have heard Alan Johnson

saying his in campaign will focus on protection of workers rights. U2

used to stand alongside each other in that regard. Do you think the

rights of workers would be better protected outside the EU? Zero hours

contracts have been promoted. In the countries that have suffered the

problems of the euro, Greece, Portugal, part of the settlement has

been the virtual suspension of collective bargaining by trade

unions. I am afraid Alan is out of date on this. He was leaving the

European Union improve workers rights and conditions? We would

reject zero hour contracts. We would ensure that collective bargaining is

still enshrined. We would not let the European Union and Brussels

dictate to us eat weakening of workers rights on behalf of big

business and other vested interests. A lot of the people who want to

leave the European Union wants to leave for a very different reasons.

They want to make it much easier to cut what they would call red tape

for workers. That may be the case that we want to make sure on the

Labour side which I represent in Scotland that we can protect

workers, for instance in the steel industry, by ensuring that we can

provide Government help where it is needed. And also that we can

effectively block dumping from other countries. These are things that

again Brussels has left as badly exposed to. One of the lessons that

was learned from last year's referendum campaign is that it is

much easier to argue for the status quo. You have got your work cut out.

There is no status quo in Europe. There has been creeping

bureaucratisation. I am pleased to see that in the opinion poll on the

27th of November that was publicised by The Independent and money week

the leave campaign had a 53% rating. That is the first time there have

been more people wanting to leave than to stay. The momentum is with

us. What about in Scotland? The trend is similar in Scotland. There

is a gap but it is not unimportant or significant one. There are issues

in Scotland, in the farming community, the fishing community,

steel and manufacturing community, I do not know anyone Scotland who

wants to join the euro. Last year at the Yes campaign faced pressure to

describe in great detail what an independent Scotland would look

like. You know what you do not want. Do you have a clear enough vision of

how Britain would look outside of the European Union? Very clear. For

the last 20 years are exported to the European Union have been

following compares to exports to the rest of the world and now we have a

?68 billion deficit with Europe and not a great deficit with the rest of

the world saw the drive for exports is being led outside Europe. While

he that is an important market the European Union has got cheat

agreements with 43 countries that are outside Europe. There is no

reason why they cannot have one with us also. There we must leave it for

tonight. I know this will rumble on. Thank you.

And with me in the studio this evening is Ewan Crawford who's

a former SNP advisor, and Pauline McNeil, the former

Europe was on the agenda at Prime Minister's Questions which were

taken by George Osborne and shadow defence barrister Angela Eagle. In

my co-leader she is in favour of Trident, voted in favour of air

strikes. Let us take a look at how she got

on. Mr Speaker I say that the Prime Minister cannot be with us to answer

questions because he is visiting Poland and Romania on the latest leg

of his seemingly endless European renegotiation tour. He has been

jetting all over the place. No wonder we had to buy him his own

aeroplane. Can the Chancellor tell us please, how is it all going?

The good news is... The good news is we have a party leader who is

respected abroad. It looked rather like they were back

to the old politics there. Is this a return to the old-style Prime

Minister's Questions? I did not think it was. I think it was quite a

clever exchange. I have always thought that Angela Eagle has been a

secret weapon of the Labour Party. Her delivery is impeccable. She is

hitting the Tories on the issue of the European referendum which will

stretch them to breaking point. It was a very clever attack but she

needs to do. I think she will be an overnight star because of it. She

has tackled the issue. I did not see it as an all style exchange. There

was some comedy, a lot of comedy. She has managed to Unite the Labour

benches. And a couple of voices were laughing hysterically. On both

sides. And George Osborne came back. Is it showing Jeremy Corbyn up? It

shows a different style and to be fair Jeremy Corbyn and Tom Watson

promoted Angela Eagle because they recognised the talents that she has.

Who came off best? It was like the MPs were having their Christmas do.

This seems to be enjoying themselves. Even though I am one of

the biggest political obsessives around, even I was left a little but

called by this because they were all having a good time, enjoying

themselves, great comic timing from Angela Eagle, but if you are looking

at this from the outside you would be bemused by all the shouting and

laughing. A lot of in jokes but it did not amount to very much. George

Osborne took the opportunity to use some comments from Tony Blair that

were reported to the on the current state of the Labour Party, called

get a tragedy. Is that a helpful intervention by Tony Blair was to

Mac she came right back at him on that. It is a reference to an

article that he wrote in the Spectator that is actually quite

profound. What Tony Blair has not recognised is that Jeremy Corbyn is

a leader in a different age than from when he was leader. After the

financial crisis people think and thought differently. The fact that

we do have Jeremy Corbyn is an indication that the world has

changed. It would have been more helpful if he had included some of

the bad behaviour that Jeremy Corbyn has had to put up with, not to

mention the cheats and he has had from the media. That would have been

more balanced. Let us move on. What a difference 24-hour scan me, we

were talking about Donald Trump last night. He has now been stripped of

his honorary degree. He has been stripped of his title as business

ambassador for Scotland. In terms of the reaction to the comments that he

has made this week just how offended, and rightly offended,

people are. My judgment as he is not the kind of person suitable to

represent Scotland that is why I have taken the decision. Donald

Trump has a making offensive statements as part of his

presidential campaign for months. When he was saying things about

Mexican people I did not see the first cluster at then. What do you

make of this? Was the action of the First Minister overdue? It probably

was overdue. Thankfully he is no longer a global ambassador for

Scotland but I think the remarks he made this week were even more

extreme than some of their accent he has made before. Absolutely

shocking. Clearly if he was going to be a global business ambassador for

Scotland that was an embarrassment to fire. It is embarrassing that he

has been an ambassador for so long? He was appointed in 2006. I did not

realise that until tonight. Nicola Sturgeon made the right decision. He

has offended 1.6 billion people across the world at a time where the

world is divided enough. It is quite clear there will be a bit more of

this in the weeks and months to come.

Angela Merkel has been made person of the year by Time magazine. She

has been named the most influential person of the year. Well deserved?

Yes, it is quite a turnaround. Not so long ago people were talking

about the fact there had been a coup in Greece and the Germans had forced

a change of Government. She has shown some moral leadership in terms

of the refugee crisis. Almost 1 million people have claimed asylum

in Germany this year. Letters to her credit that she has led that

particular issue. Some other unusual decisions by Time magazine. The

leader of Islamic was named runner-up and third place went to

Donald Trump. -- the leader of Islamic State was named runner-up.

When I first read it I thought, what good influence people to put the

Isis leader as number two but the question people were asked was who

has influenced the world so I guess that is why you got that and serve.

It does not attract from Angela Merkel's number one slot. She

deserves recognition for the right decisions she has taken. A popular

decision in Europe, do you think? Yes. She has always been the leader

of the European Union on many issues so I'm sure that would be the case.

Andrew will be here same time tomorrow night.

'From the industrial heart of Scotland...' Puff.

'..to the remotest corners of the Hebrides...'

'..the Clyde puffers were the workhorses of our coastal trade.'

And it's a story that's almost been forgotten.