10/12/2015 Scotland 2015

A Holyrood bid to block Conservative trade union reforms has failed -

the Scottish Government vows to continue the fight.

a stage in Glasgow tonight to campaign against the union

reforms - unions say they'll make legal strikes virtually impossible.

Earlier today, Nicola Sturgeon was at the Scottish Parliament

defending repair decisions on the Forth Road Bridge.

And stripped of a degree and dropped

but Donald Trump's saying politicians shouldn't pander

Labour and the SNP are standing united in Scotland.

They're campaigning together to prevent the UK Government's

controversial Trade Union Bill from affecting Scotland.

Those who oppose it say workers' rights are being eroded

but ministers say it balances rights and protects hard-working families.

In Glasgow this evening, Labour's Jeremy Corbyn

and Nicola Sturgeon shared a platform at the STUC

This is where labour and the SNP stand side by side. It is the

Glasgow Royal concert Hall, a rally called by the STUC against the

imposition of the Trade Union Bill in Scotland. It has attracted Jeremy

Corbyn north of the border. The bill is being promoted through Parliament

by the Conservatives which wants to prevent too much power, there are

four main planks, before any industrial action can be staged...

For groups working in public services, 40% of eligible voters

must vote and employers must be given at least two weeks notice and

if the action doesn't begin within four months of the vote, a new vote

must be taken. Supporters say it is protecting industry and the public

from strikes which are called by a vocal minority. There are numerous

examples of strikes in essential services that have gone ahead with

poor support for members. Unison talented -- balloted NHS in

September 20 14th strike action. 16% voted and 11% of all union members

voted in favour. The STUC says it is a bad bill. A country which will

read it has the most restrictive union laws in Europe is now going to

move to more restrictive laws if the bill passes. It is a naked attempt

to attack trade unionism at a time when the government recognises we

are potentially a key part of the opposition to its austerity agenda.

The Scottish government has prevented -- try to prevent it in

Scotland but it has been knocked back. Roseanna Cunningham asked the

Presiding Officer if it could be avoided using a legislative consent

memorandum. Legislative consent memorandum triggers a consent motion

which means Holyrood gives its consent to the Westminster

legislation that affects devolved matters. That is under a convention.

Unfortunately for the campaigners, she said today that would not work

because the legislative consent memorandum was not designed to deal

with this sort of legislation. The rules are tight, there is a clear

federal division of competences between the UK Parliament and the

Scottish parliament and it is clear matters relating to trade unions and

employment law generally under the UK side of the line.

The CBI supports the government and the bill, it says that Britain's

industrial relations laws are outdated and need modernising and

says changes in the threshold for industrial action are fair and

ensure strikes have the clear support of the workforce. That is

not the view of people here tonight. 2000 people have packed into the

Royal concert Hall to hear the speakers condemning the bill. That

includes the SNP leader, Nicola Sturgeon. I will meet the premised

on Monday in Downing Street and I will take the message from here

directly to him, Scotland opposes this. She has the support of the

Labour leader. You heard about the details of the bill, unfortunately

it is likely to go through Parliament on top of the most

restrictive labour laws anywhere in Europe. But we made worse by this

piece of legislation this government is putting through. We have two

oppose it with every means at our disposal. As unionists, politicians

and workers gather to show solidarity against the bill, the

most recent setback has not stopped the Scottish government pledging to

keep trying to find a way to keep it at bay.

Well, we invited the Scottish Secretary David Mundell

on to the programme tonight but he wasn't available.

So we asked the Scottish Conservatives if they had any

Scottish politicians available to come on,

So then we asked Conservative Central Office if there were any

Conservative politicians anywhere in the UK who would like to come

on and defend the Government's Trade Union Bill.

So joining me now alone, alas, hot foot from tonight's event,

Thank you for joining us. The Scottish government attempts to

block this bill from affecting Scotland has been blocked by the

Presiding Officer, what is the next move of the government? I think all

of us are surprised and disappointed firstly we would not able to use

that mechanism but what the Scottish government will be doing tonight is

assessing its options, in all parts of the bill, Nicola made a

commitment that the Scottish government would not use agency

workers if there is an industrial dispute affecting Scottish

government workers. There will be some discussion and thought given to

facilitating and check off and those things so I know there will be some

discussion in the Scottish government but we are surprised and

disappointed because we were of the view that this Trade Union Bill

affects devolved areas. According to the regulations, the Presiding

Officer said it doesn't and the Scottish government opponents could

say they were overstepping the mark. The Conservative MSP said the

Scottish government had egg on their face. Well, he can say what he wants

but looking at it when I was on the Trade Union Bill committee, the UK

government admitted that it would dictate to not just the Scottish

government but the Welsh government the facility time allowing workers

in health for example that would lead to Jeremy Hunt dictating to the

Scottish government health minister and Welsh minister what facility

time. I am surprised and disappointed and I'm sure it's

something we can look up. As I pointed out, we did not have a

Conservative politician to defend the policy but Sajid Javid said the

strike threshold is fair and ministers say essentially this

protects hard-working families and the balancing out of rights. Will

many people in Scotland view it as that despite what we hear from

tonight? I didn't think they will. They will not view that for a number

of reasons, firstly, I would say trade union members are

hard-working, there are contribute a lot in terms of the public sector.

In terms of the thresholds come if they are so concerned about turnouts

for ballots, they should be allowing trade unions to facilitate ballots

online and secure workplace balloting which takes place. If that

is the concern, they have voted against that in the passage of the

bill in the House of Commons which is ironic given the Conservative

candidate for the Mayor of London has been elected through an online

voting system. Ballots are free and fair and if people are not bothering

to participate, why should there not be that threshold when people's

lives cannot be disrupted. There is a lot of evidence in terms of the

International Labour organisation and many human rights organisations

are making the point that people are not participating in the ballots,

that does not mean it is a no. Our view is these thresholds do not need

to exist and if there is a problem with turnouts, the solution is to

give trade union members other alternative voting methods,

political funding and other issues. What is the next step, are you

determined to fight this, will these new regulations and laws come into

force in Scotland? Well, we will see what happens. It is going to the

laws in January, I understand on the 11th of January the devolved

administrations across the UK will take a view, local authorities would

have to take a view because I think that many would agree with me that

this is interfering in a basic employee industrial relations

relationship. Thank you. Speaking at the event tonight,

Nicola Sturgeon quoted the late trade unionist Jimmy Reid who said

workers' rights are human rights. International human rights Day. The

UN General assembly in Paris adopted the universal declaration of human

rights, milestone document outlining basic international rights.

You are stepping down after eight years as chairman of the human

rights commission, what have you achieved in that time and how is a

human rights framework in Scotland changed in that time? Well, I get a

sense that after eight years in the post that there is now through hard

work a new ambition and new seriousness to do with human rights

in Scotland. For example, the establishment and launch of the

National action plan for human rights is ground-breaking. It is two

years old and yesterday on the second anniversary first minister

gave us a speech which in years to come will be looked back upon as

being a seminal speech because she made two very real public

commitments which display this new sense of ambition and seriousness in

my view and that is to find ways of hard-wiring human rights into the

way we do things in Scotland. In two ways, she gave a commitment on the

part of the government that they would look to see how to incorporate

into our constitutional and legal framework such UN human rights

treaties as would provide everyone with adequate standard of living and

economic and social rights, the human rights to women, children and

disabled persons and secondly that she would hard-wire that into the

national performance framework, that is, how Scotland sets and measures

its progress as a society. Human rights would not be a nice thing to

do, if you want to, but they would need to be done for everyone to lead

a life of human dignity. I leave with a sense of ambition and

seriousness about the landscape that is developing. A change in UK

landscape, that is a situation in Scotland but in the UK the

Conservatives have pledged to scrap the Human Rights Act, they want to

reform that bust what is your opinion? We are running a campaign

to save the Human Rights Act at Amnesty, along with many other

organisations. We think whatever the proposals are, whenever they come

out, will be a day looting of human rights and lowering of standards. We

have a situation where I'm not sure Westminster has come to terms with

devolution. We have heard in the first minister s speech a commitment

first minister's speech a commitment to keeping Human Rights Act in

Scotland and if it comes to the Scottish parliament they would ask

for a consent of motion to not be given to it. We could see again the

Westminster Scottish parliament at loggerheads. Of course the UK

government ministers point out human rights are not a European invention

we have been promoting them in the UK to the rest of the world and we

don't have to listen to people on the continent when it comes to this

situation. There is a lot of misunderstanding around human

rights, we get to the stage where human rights is seen as a dismissive

and negative term in some parts of the press like in London. There was

a different rhetoric in Scotland but that doesn't mean necessarily

translates into public opinion. We are seeing even when there was

positive things said about refugees, we also see racist attacks against

refugees or ethnic minorities and communities in Scotland. We cannot

be complacent. There was a lot of misunderstanding about this and the

Human Rights Act did bring human rights back home, there are courts

in Scotland and the UK which are making judgments on these, it is not

about Europe telling us what to do. This is about people in Scotland and

the UK being able to claim their rights when the state whether a

local authority, the prisons, do abuse their human rights and it is

so important individuals are able to take the government to court. An

interesting point she makes about the human rights, that phrase almost

being denigrated, have you seen that change over the past eight years,

some people think it is time for reform, have you seen a change in

the way human rights and -- are viewed?

Sad as you say, Andrew this is not British history, and that attitude

that is now being displayed in a very mean-spirited way, by some in

Westminster towards human rights was the bid is the wrong side of history

because the rest of Europe, the rest of the world, within the UK, not

just Scotland but in Wales and Northern Ireland, there is a wholly

different attitude towards human rights and stop that is much more

resonant with the experienced in the rest of Europe and the rest of the

world. There is this current toxic Westminster debate that is simply on

the wrong side of history from any perspective. But, Professor Miller,

when it comes to the bill of human rights, that Wright has not been

granted in Scotland yet, I think the Strasbourg court said they should

be? Yes, and Scotland once that power translates to it and I'm quite

sure that they will transfer the right to vote to prisoners. We are

not going to remain in the company of countries that in a various

handful within Europe have refused to comply with the clear direction

of travel at every other country in Europe, and the ones who would

normally wish to be associated with it, provide prisoners with the right

to vote, and do so in a way that is proportionate, with common sense,

depending on the crime committed. I have no doubt that Scotland will do

the right thing. Naomi, we have looked at Scotland, the UK. Letters

look at the world situation. A very fast changing, developing situation

in the world is just an hour. When you see what can happen, such as the

terrible incident in Paris, one of the greatest rights that can be at

threat is our civil liberties, I suppose, because government of any

sort can be quick to clamp down on those, when faced with a terrorist

threat. Definitely, and that is what we are seeing, people wanting to put

up borders, wanting to exclude people wanting to increase

surveillance, throughout the UK and the rest of Europe, and this is

exactly the kind of reaction that people like the so-called Islamic

State actually wants to actually bring this kind of terror into

people's lives, and for our rights to be restricted. It would be so

much better to combat the medieval genocidal ideology of these types of

terrorists by actually embracing human rights, by extending them even

further. And Alan Miller, when you look at the kind of debate that is

going on, as there is the fight against so-called Islamic State, you

look at the comments from Donald Trump about Muslims, that in fact

perhaps leads to an erosion of human rights, across the board, I suppose?

Yes, and it is quite encouraging that Donald Trump has been widely

now held in contempt for these remarks. I think it is the fastest

growing petition in the UK lodged with half a million section --

signatures within 24 hours, displaying contempt towards these

remarks, and there is absolutely no place for that. In fact when these

remarks are remade, I saw today that there was an attack on a Muslim

organisation in Washington, DC, you had to be very careful because you

are treading very careful -- close to committing hate crime when you

are seen to be saying things that lead to inciting attacks against

others of other relations, other races, other ethnicities. Professor,

namely, thank you very much for joining me.

Frustrated commuters, angry lorry drivers:

the closure of the Forth Road Bridge continues to dominate

The First Minister faced sustained questioning at Holyrood yesterday

from her opponents, with accusations maintenance budgets

As the Scottish government struggles to keep Scotland moving,

it's likely an inquiry will be held.

On Tuesday, the transport Minister Derek Mackay told this parliament

there was no link between cancelled repairs in 2010 and the work needed

now. On Wednesday, he made the fatal mistake of going on the radio and

telling the truth, that they were in fact linked. The public is rapidly

losing faith in the transport Minister's handling of the

situation. So, we know, that vital maintenance work that would have

repaired the damaged area was put off five years ago. A part of the

bridge... They decided to not fix the part of the bridge that was not

broken. A part of the bridge that only became broken in the last thing

-- few weeks. We might not have had a crystal ball to tell this five

years ago, that something would have been broken in the future. I hope

the government is right, I had the bridge does reopen in early January,

but can I ask on the half of everyone, when that bridge does

reopen, Candy First Minister guaranteed it will be open to all

vehicles? We must have something new, something improved, something

different to make this system but more robust. Because we simply...

The keyword, the... The chaos within five has been quite dramatic, and we

cannot afford a repeat of this. Our focus at the moment, while others on

certainly one side of this chamber appear more interested in playing

political games, our focus is on making sure that we act... That we

act in the best interests of people affected by this closure, to

minimise disruption, and get this bridge reopened. That will be my

focus, it will be the focus of this government, and we will not be

diverted from it. I'm joined now by a couple

of guests to review the rest We have the writer and columnist

Katie Grant, and Stephen Naysmith, a social affairs correspondent for the

Herald. Let's focus on the Forth Road Bridge. Everyone in Scotland

becoming expert on bridge maintenance at the moment. Nicola

Sturgeon has been urging other politicians do stop playing

politics. It has become quite a political football, hasn't it,

Katie? It has. I thought it was in a very disappointing F M Q today

because I don't think anyone covered themselves in glory. -- glory. I

think Kezia Dugdale started well, and Nicola Sturgeon stumbled because

we are not engineers, and everyone talking about the trust ends, it was

quite clear they did not know what they were talking about, they had

just read a report. It became a political football because they

didn't know what else to do with it, but you know, it is a real issue and

these things come out of the left-field, as it were, and it could

be really dangerous for the SNP. They need to get it fixed. You think

that she stumbled, then? She did stumble because she was asked a

direct question about the putting off of the, or some kind of degrees

of the capitalisation fund, and she didn't really answer it. She sort of

fudged around, and then it became reasonably clear that is talking

about the bridge been broken didn't seem the right language, because of

course, of course that rage wasn't broken five years, but the whole

thing about the Forth Road Bridge, the reason they are building a new

one, isn't that the old one is fit for purpose animal, and bits are

going to break. Something needs to be done about this, and the Scottish

women can defend it, saying we are building a new crossing, but it is

still hard to escape the conclusion that Nicola Sturgeon's critics were

right. You gambled on this being ready in time, and this is a fairly

major pile-up in terms of infrastructure. There have been

calls for an enquiry. When with that enquiry reports? Would that be near

the Holyrood election in May? That would be very optimistic in terms of

enquiries. The bridge would probably be needing repair by the time the

report comes out. There is plainly an issue heavily SNP, and quite a

challenge to defend itself on this. It is a real case of events, dear

boy, events. Something politicians don't want to happen. The transport

minister room boys -- resigned in 2010 because of the issues of the

snow. And we haven't got even to the winter yet! It is quite optimistic

to think that the bridge will reopen in January, given that the repair is

dependent on the weather. They cannot depend it -- repair it when

it is windy. I think it will be a interesting time and I think it will

come up at F M Q is again and again. Partly, I think, because I think the

government is vulnerable on this issue, and this increasing number of

public services that are contracted out, and then the budget is cut.

Contracting out is really a means to manage cutting, and that is plainly

what happy and to an extent with the Forth Road Bridge. There are other

examples in local government and other services. Let's move to

another issue. Donald Trump and his controversial comments about Muslims

and the US. He has hit back against politicians saying that they

shouldn't pander to political correctness. We have that tweet,

there, and everyone trying hard to disguise the massive Muslim problem,

as he says it. He was dropped as the global Scott, a business ambassador,

and revoked his honorary degree. It surprises me that they were given

him an honorary degree in the first place. He's thought that building a

golf course has helped him to own Scotland. He is a phenomenal man, he

lives in a little trompe bubble, and what he will say next he and I don't

know? There shouldn't be calls for him to be banned, because that is

exactly what he's doing. He is calling for a ban. What we must do

is him here to show that we live in peace and altogether, to prove him

wrong. Even, it would be perhaps tricky for the UK to ban a

Republican presidential hopeful. I don't think it is sensible to talk

in terms of a ban and it looks like we are lowering ourselves to his

level in terms of intolerance. The interesting thing for me is what it

would take to stop Donald Trump in America, and the Republicans plainly

feel that ultimately uniting behind a anyone but strong candidate is

going to do it, because he only commands 33% support in the party.

That is a cautionary tale perhaps for our own Labour Party, because

they were expecting somebody to unite behind the anyone but scored

in -- anyone but Corbyn campaign. And anyone but Trump can pain might

help the political currency of the US. Let's move to the top story we

had tonight, Nicola Sturgeon and Jeremy Corbyn both appearing at the

STUC event in Glasgow. Katie, they want on the same stage, but what you

make of them sharing a platform, essentially? I thought it was a

funny one to choose. I don't know, the trade union Bill seems to me to

be... It seems to be for democratising the trade union. I

think other people think it is hammering them into the ground but

to me it couldn't really become clear why Nicola Sturgeon has

allowed herself with Jeremy Corbyn. He is a bit of a hostage to fortune.

I think the thing about the trade union is quite interesting because

the trade unions began to come to an end in the 1980 when their big para

went. I think Frances O'Grady, the director of the TUC says they must

stop, they must start looking in the long-term, stop thinking about the

short-term, and this debate seems to be another kind of short termism,

and it sounds so belligerent. Stephen, Jeremy Corbyn received a

standard over Asian -- standing ovation. It is interesting to see

the SNP tap into this kind of event will stop I understand that there is

some sort of debate as to who should take top billing, and Jeremy Corbyn

seems to have done exactly that. Vertical is that Nicola Sturgeon

should do, as the lead politician in the host country. There is a tension

that, between two parties who dislike and campaign against each

other very Scotland in Scotland, but clearly have some common cause in

Westminster. Right, one last bit of video. Danny Alexander receiving his

knighthood from Buckingham Palace today. Prince Charles there. Now,

sir Danny Alexander. Former Chief Minister to the Treasury. Katie what

do you make of that? What can one make of it, really? You fail as a

presentation and go off and get a knighthood. It's likely degrades the

thing. I think it's extraordinary, that all the politicians

automatically walk into knighthoods, I cannot see the justification for

it. Katie, do you think politicians should be getting this kind of

thing, I suppose it is a bit tricky? No, I think they should go back to

ordinary life, if they lost an election they should go be ordinary

like the rest of us. Katie, Stephen, thank you are joining us today.

That's it from us tonight, thank you very much for watching. I will be

back at the same time on Monday. Please join us then, but from all

this now, do have a very good evening.

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