14/12/2015 Scotland 2015

A financial deal to underpin the new powers coming to Scotland

UK-Scottish Government deal on the new powers

although the First Minister says she's not seeking special

experts say Scotland should get involved in the fight for the riches

And Holyrood politicians agree to sort out

the council tax but what alternatives

In the season of peace and goodwill, the First Minister met

the Prime Minister at Downing Street and agreed a deal would be done

by February on the financial arrangements that will underpin

Our Westminster correspondent David Porter has been keeping an eye

This was the first time that Nicola Sturgeon and David Cameron hand-held

a face-to-face meeting for more than six months. The last one was in May

this year after the general election when David Cameron came up to

Edinburgh. This one, as that one, was dominated by the subject of

further devolution and the financial publications of bats. At the moment

going to Westminster as the Scotland Bill. That is the legislation that

will give the Scottish Parliament more power and could in the ability

to set income tax rate and also borrow more, and welfare powers. But

allied to that I detailed and painstaking negotiations which are

going on between the Scottish Government and the UK Government as

to how those financial plans will work in practice, not just for the

first year, but for ongoing years. When she came out of the talks in

Downing Street Nicola Sturgeon said she believed that progress had been

made, that the two sides were negotiating in good faith, and she

said she believed there was now in effect a deadline of mid-February to

get this sorted out. The Prime Minister and I have agreed

that he wants to get the deal on the fiscal framework and we want to

reach a deal in time for the Scotland Bill to pass and be

consented to by the Scottish Parliament before the Scottish

Parliament elections. That is what we are aiming for. I have made clear

that that deal has to be a fair one for Scotland. I am not looking for

special treatment or special favours. It is that has to be a deal

that is fair, that does not pause disadvantages to the Scottish

budget, and a deal that lives up to the principles of the Smith

Commission, particularly. The UK Government seemed pleased also. They

were discussions between David Cameron and senior officials. The UK

Government believe that progress has been made on a number of fronts.

Shortly after the beating Lord Dunlop had this assessment for the

way the talks had gone. -- shortly after meeting. When people go to the

polls next spring they know what the powers of the Scottish Parliament

are sold as a beach can be about how powers are used. We would not

disagree with the overall timetable that the Scottish Government are

suggesting. But on one issue there was little Agreement. UK governments

plans for a new trade union legislation. Nicola Sturgeon and the

Scottish Government says it is wrong, it is tilting the balance of

power away from trade unions. She says that is not a good thing. David

Cameron listens to her and said he believed that the legislation was

needed and it would go ahead. On that specific issue no meeting of

minds. We didn't have more progress and did see more eye to eye was on

the issue of counterterrorism. The two governments have decided that

they will share more information between London and Edinburgh to try

and prevent any terrorist outrages in the future.

Well, security was an issue on the agenda at the Scottish

The Royal United Services Institute, or RUSI, held their first

briefing at Holyrood on the "High North" -

that's the area around the Arctic Circle.

Scotland can face strategic threats or can exploit opportunities.

Dr Igor Sutyagin is an expert in Russian studies at RUSI,

and Holger Nehring is Professor of European History at Stirling

Thank you for joining me. Tell us about the high north. It is

a concept that policymakers and the public do not understand

particularly well. It basically is an invention by the Norwegian

Government from the 1970s, 1980s, to alert other European countries to

the importance of the far north. It is northern European borders for the

defence of Europe as a whole. You were actually imprisoned by the

Russian authorities for 11 years. The accusation was you were an

American spy. You are now living in the UK. What is the perceived

Russian threat to the UK in the high north? The perceived threat is if

the UK would be willing to leave the Arctic empty the Russian Government

would inevitably felt it. The UK would be just cut off the Arctic and

high north is not that far from Scotland so that means that if you

are willing to surrender the interest around Scotland, to the

north from Scotland,. When we think of security we are thinking of

submarine roots in the north Atlantic. What do you think about

the UK Government's approach to that? Is that alias safeguarded

enough? To my experience it is not. The gap between Iceland and

Scotland, the UK, that is a gap that is important for Russian maritime

doctrine. It is an officially stated that political strategic goal of

Russian defence is to keep trans-seaplanes under threat, keep

Americans and Canadians away from Europe, to let Moscow deal with you

that alone, and to take the control of this area. That this why the gap

which currently exists is very much welcomed by the Russian military. It

is the gate to cutting Americans off Europe.

The SNP criticised the UK Government for cancelling the Nimrod

replacement programme. Tours are maritime control in a trap. We have

to rely on Americans for support. That is right. On the other hand I

would slightly disagree on the importance of the threat. To a

certain extent it is a symbolic threat. Russia wants to have

leverage over the number of issues in the Arctic as well as elsewhere

and tries to project is power. I am not sure that any kind of invasion

of Scotland is on the agenda. We have been pointing out who the

Nimrod replacement has been cancelled. In your review you think

the Russians are keen to see an independent Scotland.

Tell us more about that. It would be great from the standpoint of the

claimant. It is easier to break straws that are separated, van

breakdown the broomstick. The nation which is 5 million people, armed

with tiny forces, against the huge country which has 142 million people

and a huge arsenal. It is not that difficult to tell who will win. It

is important to understand that while Nato is not a guarantee, Nato

Article five tales as that every country promises to contribute to

joint efforts to defence, unlike the West European Union, it does not

promise to fight. It is not just military security, there are

resources there that can be exploited and in some way it may be

perceived as a bit of a race to the Arctic Circle to exploit gas and

other natural resources. That is right and this is where potentially

the Scottish contribution can come in in terms of knowledge with

resource extraction, dealing with extreme climates. This is where the

Scottish contribution, in terms of diffusing conflict and moving

towards cooperation, because that is in a sense something that the

Scottish Government would stress in this context, that they actually

want to reach some kind of regional cooperation agreements with other

countries around the Arctic such as Norway, Denmark, including Russia.

Could we be doing more of that, the Scottish Government cooperating more

than that Arctic Circle area? It is not for the Scottish Government to

decide that because this concerns the reserved powers that are still

arrested in Westminster regarding foreign defence policy. But there is

a conversation to be hard for a more integrated approach where we be

economic, social issues can be provided by the Scottish Government

within the larger Westminster framework. I would not be surprised

if David Cameron and Nicola Sturgeon had discussed some of the

defence-related aspects today in the meeting. I heard in the reports

before they were discussing exchange of information regarding terrorism

and domestic security so I would not be surprised if international

security aspects were not on the agenda as well. There could be some

kind of cooperation there. Thank you both very much.

It's a tax that gives you a holiday in January and February,

it's also a very visible tax, not a stealth tax or something that

Council tax emerged from the furore surrounding the poll tax,

but there's a political consensus that it's a levy that

A cross-party group set up to report on the issue says the chance

It has been called the heated council tax. Even if you do not heed

to it you probably do not love it. For most of us it is unavoidable.

The amount we pay has been frozen for eight years. When she became

First Minister last year Nicola Sturgeon said it was time to look at

replacing or reforming it. The current system is broken. It does

not work any more. There has not been a revaluation since 25 years

ago. It is unfair. We need to design systems, it tells you in the report

how you can sign systems that are much fear. Today the cross-party

Commission on local tax reform suggested the alternatives.

A replacement property tax which would take into account the value of

land and buildings. A land value tax based on the value

of land only. And a local income tax which would

raise revenue according to a House or the's taxable income.

What would these proposals mean? A local income tax had been suggested

before. That is just an increased income tax that everybody would pay.

Then you have got a property tax which would mean value when all the

houses and flats in Scotland and taking a fixed proportion of the

property value and paying that to the local council each year. Or

there is a land value tax, the third option, which is to value the land

on which the property sets and then pay a proportion of that land value

each year. As a general rule of thumb the people at benefit at the

moment are those in the most valuable homes. They also gain from

another freeze on the valuation on which the council taxes cartilages.

At the moment that valuation is based on prices from 24 years ago.

This report is about trying to make the council taxpayer. With these

three recommendations who would be the winners and losers there would

be winners who are probably good to be those with more valued

properties. There are going to be losers who are those on high value

properties. The question of exactly where the changeover would come

depends on what proportion and how they set the tax.

How would these proposals plea that the electorate? I don't think we

should I assume that we will get a lot of detail. We will get some

clear dot-mac whether it will be wholly property, or income tax.

Those big choices will probably be made, but will be no how much

somebody in a nice house an Edinburgh will have 2p as a result?

I would not be surprised if we do not get sufficient detail. It has

always been an unpopular tax. Cast your mind back to the poll tax

riots. The report has not recommended any particular option,

but urges all parties to put forward their couples also before next

year's will delude elections. So, in Edinburgh, is the SNP MSP

Kevin Stewart who is Convenor of the Local Government

Regeneration Committee. And the Scottish Greens candidate

and their local government And in Aberdeen is Christine Jardine

who is also standing as a candidate Good evening. You have been in

favour of local income tax in the past, but the S NP government has

been in power for eight years, why has nothing been done so far? First

of all, we have got to look at the recommendations that were made by

the local government committee in its flexibility and torn a of local

government report. It calls for an independent commission to look at

local taxation. That has been done. The commission has taken expert

advice. We need to have a look at all of their findings and then

parties are too big about what they want in the forthcoming election.

You have hired a majority since 2011, why have you not done anything

about it? There are difficulties about moving towards an local

government or income tax. We have got to take a broader view. We have

to look at this report in depth, Seaport the experts have been saying

and then take it from there. All of the parties need to delete a hard

look and take this seriously. I hope that others will recognise this

commission has done a good job of work. Andy Wightman, you are seeing

you will look at the proposals, but you have also pointed out that the

fees we have out from the SNP government which has benefited

hundreds of homes across the country has cost councils a lot of money. It

has crossed the Scottish Government dash it has cost the Scottish cup

meant ?2.5 billion at that money could have been used for other

things. The council tax-free is as a symptom of the failure to tackle

reform of local government taxation. That is what this report is helping

parties to do. It is an unprecedented agreement between

4-mac parties. Dash between four parties.

You have been in favour of local income tax as well, you signed up to

the commission, what will the Lib Dems do about this? We feel to date

this as an opportunity missed. We had been looking for the SNP to take

some leadership on this issue. It is eight years they have been promising

us. We wanted some leadership. It is so important, if you do not have

consensus, there can be a bitter and acrimonious transformation. Willie

Rennie is talking about that if the SNP are not going to take this

leadership, we enter the talks went to... What do you want now? We want

to go forward and find this consensus. We are prepared to

compromise on our ideals. We have already said about giving local

authorities giving, getting far more autonomy, reasoning more than half

the money they spent, a compilation of local and income tax. There is

that possibility. But what we really want is a consensus to move forward.

This change has two last generation. Everyone has to find it acceptable,

it has two beefier. After nine years to have just three recommendations,

that's not good enough. We have got the budget on Wednesday, what will

John Sweeney be seeing two councils then? I think we will face out of

budget following on from further posterity from George Osborne. We

have had an eight year freeze on the council tax and that has shown

leadership because it has ensured that families across the country

have not been hurt financially at the worst possible time. I think

that there is hardly anyone out there who has not welcomed the

council tax freeze over that period. As has been pointed out, that

council tax freeze has been funded by central government. The whole

issue is fraught with problems, I think you are in favour of more

land-based tax? Christine says she wants a consensus, but there is a

consensus in this report. There are not three recommendations, there are

19 recommendations. There is talk about land value tax. All the

ingredients are here for the political parties to agree a

substantial and significant reform of the Wii local government raises

its money and create an enduring and stable settlement for our

generation. Do you think there will be any agreement in time for the

election? I think the Scottish people are entitled to expect more

than ingredients. They are entitled to expect formal proposals. This was

promised in 2007. We do not have it yet. This was a missed opportunity

to say to the people of Scotland this is how we want to move forward.

Thank you. And with me in the studio to discuss

some of the main stories from today is Andy MacIver, the former

director of communications for the Scottish Conservatives,

and PR executive with the firm And the blogger and Law

Lecturer Andrew Tickell. Good evening. Let's back to council

tax. The Conservatives are having their own commission. What is your

opinion on the council tax and the reform published today? I think it

is good news that we are having a discussion. Council tax is a pretty

blunt instrument. I think the danger is that the parties revert to timid

approaches to this and look at a centralised vision of local tax. I

would rather see councils their own taxes. One is that the leaked to

that local area. You may have a predominately seals tax and Glasgow

dash it is such a difficult issue.

Haunted by the poll tax. The SNP government has had a council tax

freeze. If it does change, the middle classes might have 2p more?

Yes, indeed, I think the whole system has two B changed. It makes

us think about the poll tax which was envisaged as a theatre thing at

the time. They thought it would be popular. But you can see in the

cross-party consensus here but everyone is moving towards. The

critical question is does it like and a fear plays in terms of

people's income? For many people, it does not. Let's move on to a clip

from one of Labour's new MPs. Jessica Phillips talking about

Jeremy Corbyn. I would do anything that I felt was going to make the

Labour Party when the next election because if I do not have that

attitude, all I'm doing is colluding with the Tories. Making Jeremy

better, I will thought my sleeves up. If that is not going to happen,

and I have said that to his face, the day that it comes that you are

helping us hurting us more than helping us, I will start you in the

front, not in the back. Quite powerful words. I think people have

focused on that knife in the front thing. The interesting thing is that

she is left wing MP who is seeing these things. It underlines that the

election Jeremy Corbyn is probably the biggest political thing in this

country of the century. We cannot underestimate that someone in his

position holding some of the views he has is quite an political event

and it is something that the Labour Party might struggle to recover

from. What she has said is actually very sensible about his inability to

communicate, to have any form of political 's or media strategy

because it is reminiscent of the Blairite era. She is spot-on on

that. I suppose the proof will be in the pudding of the elections next

year. Yes, it does not look great. One cannot help but be struck by

Jeremy Corbyn who is not an advocate, and you do have to be an

advocate and politics. Even if you sure this point of view and his

convictions, who is the persuasion, the advocacy? It just is not bigger.

In the vote about Syria, Jeremy Corbyn was making points that were

completely reasonable, but he could not get them across. I guess

Robertson made a far more effective speech. Anybody who is on public

speaking those that everybody is terrified of it, I'd ever ready

judges are people doing it. You mentioned the vote on Syria, the

problem for the party is if the public look at this interview signed

warfare, that does not look good. If you are going to be a government,

you have to have a message, policies, and he has effectively

said on many issues that people can do what they want. Let's look at a

tweet from Isabel Oakeshott. She is still on the Christmas card

list despite those numerous allegations about the pig. Christmas

cards are very important. One of the most boring and mind-numbing things

for political leaders to do is what they are going to put on the

Christmas card. I suppose David Cameron was emphasising his victory

beer? It was not very festival there. We have Jeremy Corbyn's as

well. Picture from 2009. It is festive, but it is a bike that is

not going anywhere. Shelley will be back at the same

time tomorrow night. brings you some inspiring

cultural treats. Let Darcey introduce us

to her ballet heroes. Then we have more ballet, this time

with love, espionage and betrayal Want more?

Then we have the Great History Quiz. I can always drink a drink,

I'm a Scotswoman after all. Make or break on migration: EU

nations are saying no to the Prime Minister's plan to cut

the numbers coming to Britain. How does he get out of that one?

This evening an ICM poll puts It's immigration that the public

wants to see movement