14/01/2016 Scotland 2016

How best can we protect children from explicit content online?

MSPs have been debating how to strengthen restrictions

We hear from one woman who teaches five-year-olds to be 'porn aware'.

Mohammad Sarwar looks back on a turbulent political career

and ponders whether Scotland was ready for its first black MP.

There are people within the Labour Party who felt that Scotland is not

ready for a black MP, and... And the crowdfunding campaign to buy

Jeremy Corbyn his dream bike Most children have access to smart

phones and tablets these days and most, it seems, are looking

at stuff they know their parents Explicit videos, pro-anorexia

websites, violent video games. We may set parental controls,

but there's no standard regulations and, anyway, savvy kids often run

rings round their parents In a moment, I'll be talking to two

guests about how we could improve Before I could watch this explicit

music video online, I had to confirm that I am old enough. But guess

what, people can lie about that. So, it's easy for young people to see

graphic sex or violence. The video plays without even having to click

on the play button. You look at things like that and it is easy to

be friends with people on Facebook that you aren't very close with and

they may share a stupid or inappropriate video. What kind of

things are we talking about? I have skipped over review things that I

skipped over, like Isis, beheadings and stuff. When you hear parents and

teachers at the school talking about the Internet, do they understand the

issues that you face, or does its just sound out of touch? I think

whenever your parents talk about the Internet, there's always some sort

of you don't know what you're talking about, feeling, about it. I

think they obviously have cause for concern, and it is out of their

hands, so to speak, as they prominently don't monitor what's we

are doing on the Internet as much as they think they should. There is a

paradigms shift between watching your kid playing in the playground

knowing that he is safe from people that will approach in and tell him

suites in the van for him to take, but with the Internet there is no

way that they can see what is going on. They can make approaches to you

without control all parents -- from your parents or you. There was a

debate today on the subject was there was a recommendation that MSPs

aren't necessarily the people do discuss this issue. I think this

issue would audibly be more productively discussed at a youth

Parliament, who would understand the issue is a great deal better than

the average age of those who sits alongside me today. Young people

need to become aware that things happen in the use could just will

happen to themselves was that they have to protect themselves and

realise that the Internet is a dangerous place will stop she says

we do need to keep a proper perspective and not panic. I think

we must realise that a lot of people are sensible and they do understand

what they are doing and when to do silly things and won't post things

that they should not do. It is just a small minority that maybe things

are going wrong for. Perhaps the answer is to develop trust for

children, so we can tell them what it is appropriate, and they can tell

us if we come across anything that is unexpected. It is like going Uni,

parents can't watch every so you pansies who believe that children

can be trusted with a Facebook account, and they are old enough and

responsible enough to look at the right things and not the wrong

things and get themselves into trouble. To be honest it is not

always easy to get it right. My son when he was eight had a new iPad and

he had forgotten the password which is another pitfall of giving a child

a gadget. I, with great skill, I thought restored it to factory

settings, but forgot to reinstall the parental controls will stop when

I remembered this save you hours later, I checked up on what he was

doing and yet managed to download an app called 106 positions. That makes

With me now is Stewart Maxwell, who led today's debate

in Parliament, and in our Hull newsroom is Lynnette Smith,

a sex education consultant who works with children as young as five.

Welcome to both of you. Some hair raising stuff there in the report,

watching beheading videos, eight-year-olds downloading 100

different sex positions. What more do you think needs to be done to

regulate content that children can access? There is no sort of simple

answer to that question, there is no single solution to the problem. I

think some of the steps that we are beginning to see taken, the fact

that some of the major labels in the UK are now beginning to sign up to

or have signed up to the classification of their music videos

online, on YouTube and Vevo, I think is a start was one of the issues

raised in the report was that how can you tell, how can you help to

educate your children if you yourself don't know what these

videos contain, so that is helpful, you know if I see a video that has

ever classification rating, I know roughly what that means and I can

take the appropriate action if I have a child that is perhaps ten or

12 years of age. As you saw, we can get round these YouTube consent

things. You over to 18 but at yes will stop you aren't always sitting

over a child shoulder. Of course not, but listening to the

classification process is a start. Music videos that are available in

UK online, for YouTube etc, are classified by the BBFC, and Internet

filters, parental filters can then be used to save I no longer want

this mobile device or this phone or this PC to be able to access music

videos which have a classification of 18 or 15. Once they are

classified then you can implement those measures. What about

education. Lynette Smith, you work with children as young as five. Is

it really necessary to make them porn aware at that early age? I

think as soon as students not to use the Internet we have a

responsibility to a educate them, as educators and parents, to make them

aware that whilst there are interesting things on the Internet

there are also some things which are not very nice. They are the words we

use with children of that age. We use specialised age-appropriate

resources... Like drawings, for example? Yes, Little parties that

give children a really good idea of being able to identify risk because

it may not be then that find inappropriate things on the

Internet, it may be other, older children that want to show them,

younger children, those things. It is important that children from a

really young age know to tell an adult, parents, carers that if they

feel they are being put in a dusty situation so we can all protect

them. Do anyone get frightened? How do they respond to this? No-no, they

love it. There are 12 of us in the team and we worked with nursery

children right through to 18-year-olds, and they all love it.

The younger ones love it because it is very interactive. We have bending

thumbs up, dumbs down as to whether the situation on the card is a good

one or one that is not a good one. It is all very age-appropriate and

they love it. We look at situations like pornography, abuse, sexual

exploitation, and we think about those in a very adult way and we

know how serious and how devastating it can be. Children, when they look

at the card, they do not see that. They just see a situation which is

not very good, so they don't interpret it in the way we do as

adults. Stewart Maxwell, the British board of film classification, the

BBFC, found that 60% of children aged 12 to 18 wouldn't approve of

the music videos they were watching. Was it ever thus? I'm sure people

didn't approve of the music I listen to when I was that age was up I

think it is about a combination of responses that we have few

undertake. I absolutely agree with what has been said about education

but I think we also need classification we are beginning to

see, and in some cases we need regulation. We can solve this

problem, we cannot pin down the Internet nor should we. Are we not

panicking unnecessarily? The kids in that film seemed quite sensible.

Maybe we are just panicking like generations past. They were

obviously 17 or 18 years of age, what I am talking about is children

younger ages. It is giving intimation to children, and also

parents, and children actually respecting the classification is, if

they understand what an 18 is, we need to give them the opportunity to

see those ratings. Let us be honest that this material is sexually

inappropriate in some of these videos. Do you see the impact of the

viewing of this material on people exposed that content? What is that

impact? This is the reason that we started working for years ago with

children because I had been delivering sexual education since

4002. That summer we saw the Internet into our homes. From that

September onwards, September 2002, we were seeing different attitudes

towards girls, towards women towards sex, and that has increased, so four

years ago, a combination of seeing that real peak in a change of

attitudes, and boys especially thinking that a lot of the things

that they were seeing in pornography on the Internet was how sex really

was. That combined with primary aged children being referred to in...

They had gone off the rails and exhibited strange sexual behaviour.

This made us realise that we have to start sexual education much, much

younger and the Ofsted report that said that the primaries was doing

the sexual side of it as well as they could. We decided to move into

primary schools as well as a senior schools, and start helping schools,

teachers and importantly, parents, understand what the issues were so

we could all work together to help the approach. Do you think, Stewart

Maxwell, that Lynette's work is in Scottish schools, and should be

happening there? We have do educate parents but we also certainly have

the educate children. As I there is a combination of the things that she

would be provided. We need to understand what we are facing and

deal with it appropriately. We need to give the parent is the confidence

that they can use that ability and knowledge and that companies to take

the decision to protect their children and the domination of these

things will mean that we don't have to worry about the measures of panic

that we were talking about earlier. There we must leave it. Thank you

Stewart Maxwell and Lynette Smith for coming in.

There were people in Labour who thought Scotland was just not

That's the view of Scotland's first minority ethnic MP,

Mohammad Sarwar, looking back over his often controversial life.

Earlier today I caught up with him at his family home in Glasgow.

And there was a hint of regret that he hadn't climbed higher

It's a real-life rags to riches story, from shelf stacking to

millionaire businessman. That's a good seller. A journey that led this

entrepreneur not do the Conservatives but to Labour. They

were campaigning for poor people in this country, they wanted to have a

narrow gap between the rich and the poor, and I always believed that he

the party policies were more friendly to communities than only

other political party in this country. But things turned nasty

when he decided to seek the nomination for Glasgow government in

1995. As a young reporter, I actually covered that selection. It

was a pretty, pretty dirty affair, wasn't it? I mean you describe in

this book a visit from what sounded like two heavies, but were actually

two Labour MPs at the time. Tell me about that. Mike Watson and Ian

Davidson made a deal between themselves that Mike Watson would go

for Parliament and Ian Davidson would go for tomorrow's, and by

joining forces against me that he would make sure that I wouldn't be

selected, and they were being very abusive, and I had a lot of

difficult times during this process. They tried to talk you out of

standing. They tried to talk me out of it, they said I must not stand, I

told them luck. I have a right to go in the democratic process. If I win,

fine, if I don't win, then you will be selected and I give useful

support during the elections. I can't get rid of this feeling that,

for some he is a lackey that is too big for his books and that ain't

Westminster, it is the gentleman's club. I think he is absolutely

right. People in the Labour Party who felt Scotland is not ready for a

black MP and that I should be limited to just being a Councillor

and supporting the Labour Party wherever they need me, and that is

why they approved of me -- treated me so prettily -- "For some he is a

Paki that is too big for his bits". 20 years ago I followed Mohammad

Sarwar on a trip to Palestine will Pakistan. He had gone to bring back

to Glasgow sisters who had been abducted by their fathers and forced

into marriage. I am from the BBC in Scotland and I wanted to speak to

you about abduction of your 13-year-old daughter to marry a

40-year-old man. I do not think back then as a young reporter I

understood quite a controversial thing that was for you to do. There

are a lot of people here in the Asian community who thought you had

no business intervening in a family's fears. When I discussed

this issue with my community members I was advised not to intervene in

other families's business but I felt very strongly I should help these

girls in difficulty and my wife encouraged me. She encouraged me to

take a bold step. Your successful intervention brought the girls back

and they were happy with the resolution, but not everybody here?

Yes, there were a lot of people in the community upset about me

involving myself in this other family's affair, and this might

surprise you. Even though there was a meeting of the powerful leaders of

the community and they decided unanimously to boycott my business

-- there was. It was not an easy decision but again, when you are in

politics you should not be in politics if you can't make these

difficult decisions. Tougher still was his decision to get involved in

one of Scotland's most notorious murders the brutal killing of second

Macdonald by four Asian young men. All the community were shocked and

they were very sympathetic -- Kriss Donald. All of Kriss Donald's

family, and people thought there would be trouble in Pollokshields

because there was trouble in other parts of the UK when there was the

fight and the trouble. And there were riots afterwards, but luckily

the communities all became United at this difficult and challenging time

and they also ported me in my struggle -- they all supported me in

my struggle to bring the killers back to Scotland. I have always

believed in integration, because, you know, when children from the

minorities go into the schools tomorrow, they make friends with

each other and impractical life, this networking helps people to

become successful in their life. But this is a long story which I have

mentioned in my book as well. What are the reasons, why things went

wrong? And I still believe that this war is in Afghanistan and Iraq did

not help to bring the international community together, these wars have

become recruiting Sergeant for terrorists in the eastern world. How

does it feel no to see the woman you beat when you got elected in

Government running the country? Yes, I confess at my selection with

Margaret Curran and of course she became the sack in the Secretary of

State for Scotland, Mike Watson becoming a member of the House of

Lords and then the cabinet minister -- became the Secretary of State for

Scotland. And Nicola, I beat her in 1997, and she becomes the First

Minister, and I am the one who remained a backbencher MP for 13

years in British politics. Any bitterness about that? I am content.

Why do you think you remained a backbencher? The reason is simple, I

was a controversial MP and then in British politics, one thing I have

learned, that you do not go up the ladder by voting against your own

Government. Except, of course, if you're Jeremy Corbyn. Do you think

he will turn things around for Labour? I have campaigned with him

on many issues. He was campaigning with me against the war in

Afghanistan, he shared my views on the Iraq war, on Palestinian issues.

He is a man of integrity and he won the election of the Labour Party

with a massive majority. A Prime Minister in waiting? I wish him

well. But would he be Prime Minister, do you think? This is a

matter for the British people, not for me. But what do you think? I am

out of British politics know, for the last two years, so I don't know

what will happen in for yours' time. -- four years' time.

Mohammad Sarwar earlier, not quite answering that last question.

Here now to discuss some of today's other news are the journalist

Welcome to you both. We will stick with Jeremy Corbyn for our first

story. A crowdfunding campaign has raised nearly ?5,000 already for a

new bicycle for the Labour leader after column in which he mentioned

his dream bike, and this is it, a ?475 Raleigh Criterium. Katie, can

we read anything into his choice of baked? Nothing at all. He can also

buy many bikes for ?5,000, and I think this shows something about

Jeremy Corbyn which is whether you like him or you don't there is

something very attractive. He wanted a bike and that is what he said he

wanted, so great he has got one. I think it is just a nice thing, ...

And the fact he cycles. Is that attractive in a leader do think? Is

there an example in Britain just know of any political person at all

as genuinely earnest as Jeremy Corbyn? His authenticity exposes the

superficial nature of a lot of politics. You know, a whole

generations of politicians that came up with a public relations head on

Seoul, yes, he is old school, he will not be the next Prime Minister,

but I think people all across the political spectrum are attracted to

that authenticity because I think people want to be more like him --

so, yes, he is old school. Jeremy Corbyn, yes, but Boris Johnson,

David Cameron, they ride bicycles, but no one rides one quite like

Jeremy Corbyn, so I think it has done a good thing for bicycles. When

he is riding his icicle, he is never the too far off his principles and I

think that is all part of the package -- bicycle. I don't think

you could say the same of some of the figures you mention who are part

of that pragmatic bullet -- political class. Which is there

enough. You mentioned that he is earnest. The people like that?

Cyanide yes, and I think some kind of relief from the current pantheon

of political figures. Really we are all sitting in a living rooms and

suffering -- yes, and I think some of the relief. A lot of ours are not

that engaged, to be honest. It is the same old tricks, just a

different colour -- a lot of us. Ride a bicycle because he likes a

bicycle but he is also on ideologue and I think unfortunately in the

deep's world a lot of the people who succeed or managers and that is what

politics is about, managing things nowadays. While he may be attractive

in his earnestness and I like that, politician who says what he means,

but when it comes to actually being Prime Minister, I don't think that

quite works. So we like him but we don't really trust him to leave the

country. There is a report out today looking at Labour's General Election

defeat and it has suggested the biggest challenge for the party

would be connecting with voters on immigration and welfare. You think

he will achieve that on these two issues? I think that is the biggest

challenge for a lot of people on the left. It is a delicate balance

between not being seen or genuinely not condoning xenophobia, for

example, but also coming to where people are and listening to what

might be some valid genuine concerns people have around what some believe

to be a sort of open-door policy where a lot of people not accounted

for. I think in times of austerity when communities in poverty or under

such chronic stress it is difficult to lecture from on high about

tolerating this and that because tolerance is something that comes

from being free from the daily stress of, where is the money coming

from? This, that and the next thing. It is a delicate balance and I think

it will be interesting to see how Corbyn plays it because he will make

his own arguments. I do not see him capitulating a lot of the time to

what the others do but I think it is a real debate that needs to be had.

I will move on because Glasgow's folk Festival, Celtic Connections,

kicks off today. More than 2000 artists will be performing in

Glasgow over the next 18 days. It is funded by public and private sector

support and just before Christmas the Scottish Government announced it

would cut the whole culture budget by almost 10%. Does that worry you,

Katie? Well, we live in times of austerity, and as many of the people

affected have said, or the administrators in the affected

organisations have said, you know, in times of austerity everybody must

bear some of the cost... But is culture and easy hit? I would not

have said it was an easy hit, but it is in one way in that people, you

know, it doesn't affect their daily lives in the same way cutting

welfare affect their daily lives, and I find the response quite

interesting. You know, when the SNP cut the budget, everyone says quite

nicely, of course, we must take our fair share of the cuts, but if it is

the Tories, they are all devils incarnate, but I do not think

culture is an easy hit, especially in Scotland where it means a lot to

most people but, you know, there are cuts and we must all take some.

Creative Scotland is taking a cut of 3.6%. You have had some words to say

about Creative Scotland. I come from a community where, quite often,

well-meaning and valiant community arts projects are parachuted in with

massive resources, they withdraw resources from the community, go

back to the Government and speak about legacy when really they have

sold a lot of seeds of resentment and made people sceptical of art so

that is my experience. In terms of the cuts, I do not see a festival

like Celtic Connections taking a massive hit. They are well

oversubscribed and every gig is packed. The people who feel the cuts

will be the local organisations with two or three core staff member is

who do not have the resources to find the pots when other funding is

cut. When you see those cuts that is really who it is affecting, the

local organisations that have deep roots in communities, the ones who

cannot afford to send someone out scouting. There are a lot, you know,

there are many administrators in Rate in Scotland. I looked at the

website before coming in and I think there are about 36 employees and the

chief executive -- Creative Scotland. We have to work out how to

-- look at how these organisations work, whether we are getting good

bang for the buck out of the administrators. Because I think the

people who suffer are the performers and creative people and somehow the

administrators and administration, you know, keeps on chugging along.

If it is anything like the other sectors and public life at the

minute there is probably a middle tier of managers, isn't there?

Slowly becoming more empowered as cuts are falling everywhere else.

OK, I am afraid that is where we will have to read it. Thank you both

for coming in and thank for watching.

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