14/09/2016 Scotland 2016

Nicola Sturgeon says she's keeping a close eye on legal challenges

around Brexit saying Holyrood might be able to block the

Tonight I'll ask politicians in Edinburgh if the current

consensus around Europe means they'll back the First Minister.

Good evening and welcome to Scotland 2016.

The First Minister is predicting a lost decade if Brexit goes ahead

but what would be the consequences if Holyrood was able to stand

in the way of article 50, and therefore the British

The European Commission President Jean-Claude Junker wants the process

to start immediately though his state of the union

address today didn't dwell on Brexit for long.

We'll hear how the EU is dealing with the prospect

And Jeremy Corbyn and Owen Smith have crossed swords for the last

time before the Labour leadership decision but have most members

We got contrasting views on Brexit today.

Nicola Sturgeon told a committee at Holyrood that Britain's

exit from the EU might lead to a lost decade.

She said the "least worst option" of remaining in the single market

should be the key objective for the Scottish Government.

Meanwhile in Strasbourg the European Commission President

said he wanted the process of Brexit to start soon but added

the EU wasn't at risk, and relations with Britain

Laura Maxwell reports on today's developments.

The flags of the European Union. For now the union Jack remains in place.

As to the UK's MEPs. But if the president of the European Commission

has anything to do with it they will be there for long. We would be happy

if the Brexit could happen as quickly as possible so that we can

take specific steps. Our relations with the UK must remain on a

friendly basis. That means only those who can have a limited access

to the single market except movement of persons. Another parliament, now

the union. But the same discussion was on the menu. Free movement and

the single market. Is the Prime Minister in favour of protecting

these are free travel? There was a very clear message from the people

at the time of the referendum vote. They wanted to see an end to free

movement as it operated, they want to see control of the movement of

people from the European Union into the UK the Prime Minister was not

the only woman answering questions about the EU today. At Holyrood the

First Minister told the European and external relations committee she

would monitor legal attempts to use the Scottish Parliament to block

Article 50. She also warned of the challenges of Brexit. I do think

there is a real risk that the UK is facing right now are lost decade or

more when the uncertainty and turmoil of Brexit and everything

that comes after it before that is clarity about what the UK's place in

the world actually is will dominate and the donnish that will do to our

economy and other areas of our society will be deep and severe.

Those concerns carried on into the Hollywood chamber. Scotland's voice

would be heard promised the Brexit negotiations Minister. Not even is

there no road map, it doesn't seem to be any direction. It may be that

hard Brexit with all the damage to the economy is the desired

destination. Last weekend the Foreign Secretary lent his wits to a

hardline campaign which demands UK control of laws, borders, money and

trade. For the Scottish Conservatives Jackson Carlaw urged

Mr Russell do show some diplomacy London and in the European

Parliament. One senior ambassador spoke plainly. The Scottish

Government must take the opportunity offered by Theresa May, play a

wholehearted and constructive part. If they do so those discussions with

EU member states would proceed with the UK member state agreement and

could be a fruit. If the atmosphere is soured and confrontation and uses

words, then the shutters will come down all over Europe to any

separatist sessions with Scotland. The Scottish Government can both

make or break our influence. MSP 's back a government motion today that

a keynote Cauchy agent should before Scotland and the UK to remain inside

the single market. Back in Strasbourg that hope has some

support not least from the EU's chief Brexit negotiator. It's about

how we want Europe, our own European Union in the future. That is at

stake. Stop the politics of division and seize this opportunity not to

kill Europe as some of you want but to reinvent Europe. Three different

parliaments, three different takes on Brexit. Much discussion of unity

but far less of it on display. So how did Jean-Claude Junker's

state of the union address go down? I've been hearing from Ryan Heath,

a senior EU reporter for Politico. I think the most significant thing

was what he didn't say which was not disturb the pot with any of the

national governments, not to announce anything too far-fetched or

too far away from where general public opinion is across the

European Union. It was a steady as she goes speech and that was about

as close as we are ever going to get from him. He accepts that not

everybody in Europe was to run towards a centralised and federal

European Union. And his message on Brexit has not changed. He wants the

process to begin as soon as possible. If it had been a different

sort of politician he might have stood up and said I am sorry this

didn't work out the way I wanted it to and I hoped it could have been

different but I beg your forgiveness. That is what a Tony

Blair politician might have done. Jean-Claude Junker is very proud. He

wanted to bury the subject, run around it and get on with it. As we

all know from Theresa May's tactics she wants to get all her ducks lined

up. And he returns to this idea that he has proposed before about a

European fighting force. It's an idea that was used by levers and

being a step too far. How popular an idea is it? It is a surprisingly

popular. Even the people who supported them understand. Once you

remove the UK from that equation it has proven easy to get people to sit

around a table and have a discussion about it. That has not been a lot of

common ground among EU leaders over the last two years and they might

not be when it's only the 27 going forward but defence coordination is

one of the few areas where there has been positive movement in the last

few days. Nigel Farage was unhappy today with the Belgian MEP, the

European Parliament lead negotiator on Brexit. He has made prominent

noises towards Scotland in the past. How much traction does that idea

have in Brussels? There is a lot of sympathy for the Scottish people in

Brussels. It's clear to everybody that Scotland voted to remain in

Cleveland Brussels would like to accommodate the Scottish people as

much as possible but they are probably not going to leave the door

open for Scotland remaining in the EU or somehow being a European

island. The Scottish people have strong advocate but he also has to

take his battles. He's not going to win every fight and you will have to

decide what's the compromise he can strike with somebody like Theresa

May knowing that the parliament can veto the final deal but also knowing

he can't hold a full union to ransom. Is the Scottish position

deemed to be unfeasible or impractical or is it just down the

politics? A little bit of all of those things. If you continue to

have the situation we have in Spain were just this week we have had

Catalonian national day and they don't recognise that Catalonia is a

separate nation. Because of those internal politics there it is an

matter how much sympathy people after Scotland they are not going to

recognise any interest in independence in the UK because their

own domestic political balance. Nicola Sturgeon has been

maintaining her position in the wake of the Scottish vote to remain

that her government will fight to maintain

a relationship with Brussels. Today in front of a committee

of MSPs she described the idea of business still having access

to the single market So given the consensus among

the party leaders at Holyrood over Europe can the First Minister count

on support across the chamber if she feels parliament can block

article 50 being triggered. Lib Dem Alex Cole Hamilton,

Conservative Adam Tompkins Does the Scottish Government have to

do accept its options are limited? 62% of Scottish people voted to

remain and the government's job is to defend the Scottish people and

ensure we continue to have access to the single market. But it also has

to take a realistic position. That is a realistic position. It is a

position supported by the Labour Party and the Greens. Would you

support the plant -- the Scottish Parliament having a say in the

triggering of Article 50? I don't think so. Mike Russell who of the

Minister for Brexit negotiations made it plain in his statement to

the Scottish Parliament that he expects the Brexit negotiations to

be conducted in accordance with the devolution settlement. The

devolution settlement makes it perfectly plain that the UK's

membership of the European Union is a reserved matter. What about the

point about representing the 62% of the people voted to remain. The UK

Government represents the whole of the UK including all four nations,

two of which voted to leave the EU. The point is the UK as a whole voted

to leave and that is what the whole of the UK is now going to do. Brexit

means Brexit. Do you have to accept that position? I certainly don't.

There is a threat to service industries in Glasgow, the social

funds we get from Europe will be affected and they will be a huge

impact on his constituents. He talks about the UK Government calling the

shots but the UK Government has won Scottish MP and was opposed by 86%

of voters in Scotland so I think it's wrong that he is saying the UK

Government should call the shots. In terms of devolution settlement is if

the House of Lords constitutional committee has said this should go to

a vote of the Westminster Parliament, if that happens the

advice to our committee is it could start impacting on reserved areas

and that means there has to be a legislative consent motion in the

Scottish Parliament. To raise a think differently and does not

believe she needs the consent of Parliament to trigger article 50.

What -- where would the Lib Dems stand on this? We have a different

approach. We believe that once the details of Brexit are laid out we

should go back to the people of Great Britain for a second

referendum in the hope we could reverse that decision. The reality

that that is clear because the perspectives that was sold to the

British people on the 23rd of June was nothing short of a pack of lies

and the truth of that has been exposed. We believe we should have

that choice again. So you are happy to hold another Brexit referendum

until you get the result you want? We voted for the status quo and we

knew what we were voting for in 2014. We were delighted to remain

part of the UK. Everybody knows the buyers' regret that was expressed on

the leave voters when they realised what they had been sold by Nigel

Farage other members of the Conservative government. It is the

Conservatives who have put us in this position. Ruth Davidson went

through the last campaign promising to be the saviour of the UK but she

has brought us back to the brink of another referendum.

John McAlpine, what would be the consequences of the Scottish

parliament standing a way of Article 50? I think the UK Government would

have to take note of that. It is not just about Scotland it is about the

other devolved administrations as well. The First Minister of Wales

which actually voted leave has himself said that the devolved

administrations should be involved in the process. One of the key

things that... NMP wouldn't be credit deficit if you would be able

to halt the process. That is what the union is supposed to mean. This

is supposed to be a union of nations. Theresa May, when she came

to Edinburgh to see the First Minister after she became Prime

Minister seemed to understand that democratic obligation because she

said that Scotland would be involved at the heart of the negotiation

process. That has not been happening over the summer. That is two months

ago and we still haven't seen any meaningful involvement of the

Scottish Government in helping the UK Government to agree a position. I

hope that will change, but it is certainly very concerning that the

Tories and indeed the Liberal Democrats disgracefully voted

against the motion in Parliament today. We voted against the motion

because you went against the consensus that we formed before

Parliament and recess which is that we all agreed to explore options to

keep Scotland in the EU. We made explicit but that should not include

independence. Yet Nicola Sturgeon has used that cross-party consensus

as a Trojan horse. Let me just put this point forward. She didn't

mention independence at all. I think it is disgraceful that the Liberal

Democrats have taken this position. They used to be the party of home

rule Europe and they have now does all did those originals. Your

consensus didn't last very long did it? Negotiations haven't started and

you are backing the First Minister. The only thinking the SNP are

interested in is independence. It appears that that is the case,

sadly. Absolutely willing to come to the table and look at the best

options. Let's remember, we're a party in Europe. I am a citizen in

Great Britain and a citizen of the EU. The Tories have done their best

to rock me of my EU citizenship, but I won't let the SNP rob me of my

indicted kingdom status. Due support the Scottish Government to keep

access to the UK market if the UK leads? Yes, I want the whole of the

UK kingdom, Scotland included, to have access to the single market.

That is where we need to go. We shouldn't be talking here about the

membership of the single market. There is no such thing. We are going

to leave the European Union. The question then is what kind of

relationship going forward to being want to have with the other 27

member states and indeed the institutions of the European Union

themselves. I want that relationship to be as full and free in access as

is consistent with our national feeling. Ruth Davidson seems to have

changed her opinion. At first she was talking about reaching out

across Europe and then she wrote in a newspaper that we all need to make

Brexit work. She is on the Leeds side. Not at all. The SNP have been

very clear about this. They are only interested in independence. We are

the only party to not lend the support to the SNP as union. You

have brought on a second referendum. I cannot believe I am hearing this.

Your party has single-handedly brought this country to a second

referendum. I can't believe you can't see that. I'm sorry. Seven out

of the eight Liberal Democrat MPs and the liberal Democrats supported

it. At the Labour Party and the Conservative. It was a cross

party... Has there been a change in the Scottish Government? Because

previously the position was that the EU would... I think you would have

noticed that the person who is talking most about independence as

the Tory. We are getting on with running Scotland well and

maintaining our access to a single market possible. Initially, the

position was to remain a member of the EU. Now it is talk of the single

market. The least worst option as Nicola Sturgeon described it. There

has been a change, has an? We want to remain a full member of the EU.

We said right from the beginning that we wanted to explore every

single option. The First Minister said today that full access to the

single market was the least worst option. We are listening to people

and that is what is being said right across Scotland. Businesses, trade

unions, everybody. That is what they are telling us. We want access to

the single market. The single market guarantees freedom of goods, freedom

of services to move around Europe. Freedom of capital. It also is about

social protection. Employment protection as well. Having an equal

playing field. The single market up is all of these things and you can't

pick and choose these things. I'm afraid we have to leave it there.

Thank you for joining us. The two men competing to lead

the Labour Party have been squaring This was the last hustings

of the contest between The winner will be announced a week

on Saturday ahead of the party's annual conference being

held in Liverpool. Here's a flavour of tonight's TV

encounter on Sky News. I don't view are serious about

winning power of the labour. And precisely because I don't think

there is any prospect of us being able to address those gross

inequalities you talked about unless we have got a little leader of the

Labour Party who knows there are 106 seats and the amount of the vote we

need to win. And where those who signed what he would do to win them

back from the Tories. Not someone who says frankly a lot of platitudes

about all sorts of things we would all like to see. We are all in

favour of motherhood and apple pie, Jeremy. Politics is a tough business

of winning votes from the Tories. You unfortunately I don't think are

serious about that. Come back on that, Jeremy? It is likely

regrettable if the whole thing reduces to a personal view of each

other. Can we not look at the issue? Our party was created by brave

people to bring about a fairer and more just society. We made great

achievements. In the face of the Tory Government is creating

deliberately and specifically gross inequality in Britain. The party has

to come together to oppose austerities and not offer next

election some sort of posterity light. We need to stand up for the

welfare state. You do things together as a party we can a great

deal. I regret the fact that some colleagues including Owen took

decided to resign from the Shadow Cabinet. I simply say to them, once

this leadership is over, letters come together and campaign on all

those issues. Well, with me now to discuss some of today's

News of the journalist Dani Garavelli journalist

and the SNP's former head of media letters to start with that Labour

leader contest. One of you made of the wider contest between the two?

In terms of the night's debate, I thought it was pretty much what you

would expect. I thought Corbin did OK. Owen Smith is never going to be

the most charismatic of speakers, he seemed to be buoyed by the

performance on question PMQ 's. He had some rhetoric on migrants. Owen

Smith will always have the advantage of being able to point out that he

is probably not electable and therefore it doesn't really matter

what he said. That is the interesting thing. Corbin supporters

believes he can win an election, Owen Smith says he is delusional and

thinking that. Who is right? I thought what was interesting is

something that Owen Smith said last week. He said it Jeremy Corbyn was

to be returned to Labour leader than the Tories could be in for 20 years.

I think that is a comment that could come back and haunt him and the

Labour Party if Jeremy Corbyn does win. The interesting thing for me is

that it could go back into the Scottish constitutional debate. Who

are discussing earlier on in terms of the constitutional deficit. Fewer

than one in four people in Scotland are voting Conservative and we're

talking about decades of Conservative Government. That is an

extremely deep deficit that would have an impact in of itself. There

should be another independence referendum. Pulse of an wrong in the

past, but they've been this wrong? Ashe polls. What I think is

interesting is whether Owen Smith is any more electable? There seems to

be a lot of evidence that Jeremy Corbyn is not electable. Where is

the evidence that Owen Smith is electable? What about this other

story, this Parliamentary report that criticised the overthrowing of

Colonel Gaddafi in Libya. Let's have is listen to the chair of the

committee. The whole process of being drawn into Libya was poorly

thought through and then based on erroneous assumptions. In terms of

intelligence and the nature of Libya. The Foreign Office is saying

that there are not of unknowns here, Kevin. It does seem that from this

reported is pretty critical of David Cameron and his foreign policy at

the time. It is. The most disappointing aspect and the most

powerful paragraph is paragraph 28 where it says there were no known is

before 2011 whereby it was known that elements in Libya were reaching

out internationally to other extremist groups in other parts of

the world. So, it was known that there was a danger of allowing

extremist elements like Daesh to capitalise on the chaos that in

shoot. That is exactly what happened. The most disappointing

thing is that that is out repeat performance of policy across the

western world. Have you go back to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan,

America game the Lima gave all of its water support to fire the

Pakistan Government and they gave it the most extreme elements. Back

ended up in the Taliban control of Afghanistan. Nowadays, my enemymy

enemy is my friend. All that does is create a bigger monster. The Foreign

Office says there is no easy answer. Boris Johnson is talking about a

nightmare scenario. He said the people in Benghazi were facing a

massacre. Of course, Colonel Gaddafi was a ruthless dictator. He was.

What the report seems to suggest is that not many lessons have been

learned from Barack. We are repeating those errors. That is a

shocking. Another sense it is predictable. It highlights the lack

of preparedness. The failure to foresee consequences. The failure to

follow through. This is what we would regard as hallmarks of David

Cameron's premiership. I don't think it will change anything at all. It

will consolidate what people think of him which is that he was a gung

ho opportunist. Another big story. This is the case of Pauline

Cafferkey. The Ibo and nurse. Her solicitor had to say this after the

judgment. As the panel heard, Pauline and have fellow volunteers

arrived at the airport they were faced with chaotic scenes. Public

health work on prepared for the people affected by a bowler. There

were serious -- the bowler. --Ebola He was also these things

that cause her to be bull when I first heard the chances, I thought

there must be something that we don't know here. Something must

emerge from the hearing. The only thing that has emerged is that how

chaotic this screening was. At Heathrow. They made the complaint

while knowing that the operation was chaotic for stuff I don't understand

the motivation at all. Great deal motivation for Pauline Cafferkey.

Given everything that she has been through to face this hearing. It is

so unjust. Coming from this with her reputation enhanced and intact. This

will rebound on Public Health England. It was a serious situation.

The situation with chaotic at Heathrow Airport. The workers

returned home, but take this case forward. Try to get someone struck

off because of this is a very serious error of judgment and they

have to look to themselves at their conduct in this matter. I imagine

there will be a clamour for an apology in this issue. It is the

nursing and midwifery Council as well. They have got questions to

answer as well. Thank you much for joining us.

Shelly Jofre is here tomorrow night, usual time.