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Hello and welcome to the programme. Tonight, another top-notch panel is

:00:36.:00:42.

here to tackle the big issues of the week. Sammy Wilson sits in the

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Executive as the finance minister. Gerry Kelly is a Sinn Fein MLA in

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Belfast. Deirdre Heenan belongs to the University of Ulster. Also

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drumming us tonight - David McWilliams, and then MLA for North

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Antrim. Tonight's questions come from

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members of our studio and audience. You can also have your say at home.

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You can also phone and e-mail us, and you can tweet your comments to

:01:29.:01:34.

us. The details on your screen now. Calls cost up to five pence per

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minute from most land lines. Calls from mobiles may cost considerably

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more. Our first question comes from Peter,

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a church minister from Port Stewart. I want us the panel - is there

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still an opportunity for leadership at Goodwood? Let us put that first

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to Professor Deirdre Heenan. When I first heard about good word, my

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initial reaction was, here we are, business as usual. A mix of

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frustration, anger and dismay that we would seriously think of

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conceding one of the core values of Northern Ireland, the allocation of

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social housing. Incredible, given the its historical significance.

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What we have to look at his watch to the possibilities here? How can

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this be a catalyst for real change in north Belfast? There are still

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possibilities, but we need to think big. We want to say, how can

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bespeak a game changed, an area that has suffered so much over the

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past 40, 80 years? What you want is a world class area, where

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individuals who do not live in north Belfast will go to world

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class leisure and facility services. It or not matter who lives in those

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houses. It will be some would we want to go. What we cannot have is

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a political carve up. If it looks like a car up, it smells like a car

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up, it is a cup up. It is unacceptable. The politicians have

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to realise that the people of Northern Ireland have moved on. We

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do not on this sectarianism any more, and we do not both -- and we

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do not one but as a legacy for our children. APPLAUSE. So you are

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saying it is a car up, and due regard this as a missed

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opportunity? We are going to have to think again. Many plans were

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drawn by the apparent European funding, and the closure of that

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funding. That is an example of hand to mouth policies. I think it is a

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calf up, but what we want is a catalyst for the regeneration of a

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terrier, to address the poverty that exists. I looked at what was

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being proposed, and yes, that is on the right direction, but not enough.

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We want people to think big and think outside the box and say, in

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the future, this whole area will be a world class area for regeneration.

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Sammy Wilson, a clear message there from to droop. If it looks like a

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car but, it is. First double, many of her attitude to these things

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will be influenced by what goes on in the news around us. For a number

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of years, two successive ministers failed to come to any conclusions.

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One drove this fruit a week ago. This was been welcomed, not just by

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two particular parties, but by all of the party's. This was agreed and

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signed up to buy all of the parties in north Belfast, then it was

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decided to stop playing politics. Here is a site - it is in the

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middle of one of the most contested areas of Belfast. Yet 90% will be

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designed in a way to insure that it is a shared space, attract people

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from all sides of the community of north Belfast, it will be of such a

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standard the people from outside the area will also be attracted to

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it. There are two areas of housing. But that is the whole point. It is

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not. Here is a site, 90% of which will be developed with high class

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facilities which will be shared by schools, Protestant and Catholic,

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shed in terms of sports on offer, shared by the communities

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surrounding that. I think that that in itself is an important facility

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fought a deprived area. The fact will have two areas of housing

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which currently... Many people have preached about this. I would like

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to see them go from the leafy suburbs and live in mixed

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communities in North Belfast. They preach about it, but were not

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practise it. This is not a mixed community. This is two separate

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segregated piecing of housing. present, we have to live with the

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reality that we have. If you can make this a shared space, I do not

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know what that housing will look like in 10 years' time. But we have

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to start from where we are. Some of the people who preach about it do

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not practise that integration too well. They live in safe areas and

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do not have to worry about the tensions that revolve around those

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areas. Some of your critics have asked the question - is this some

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kind of car up for the Maze prison? They have been upset together and a

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deal has been done between Sinn Fein and the do you people stop it

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was initially agreed by all the parties. It was agreed that a

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representative would be in north Belfast. Later on, they may well

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have thought there was political advantage in taking that line. But

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here is a site that lay neglected for a long time. A minister has

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driven with the local communities and politicians a plan which may

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well have some improvement, but tries to use this as they shared

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space. Jim Allister, are you satisfied with that? It is both a

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car up and a trade-off. The trade of I do believe is the Maze, were

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suddenly, after stopping the stadium because of the affiliation

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with the ugly prison buildings, suddenly, all of that which would

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create a shrine, is now acceptable. We now have a project, a so-called

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transformation and reconciliation centre. The key point of which is

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the hospital wing, where the hunger strike took place, are kept under

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an integral part of that. Some Sinn Fein politicians have boasted of

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story telling. The very sort of thing which the DPP said they would

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never accept because it would be... But you do not actually know that.

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One knows how this Government works. It is one trade-off against the

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other. Sinn Fein were demanding hundreds of houses. They would not

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move on that. Suddenly, they have conceded on that. What do they get

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in return? It looks obvious to me. They got the Maze. This is the

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trade-off. There is nothing about how this Executive functions. It is

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the politics of trade-off, and maize is a classic example of that.

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We the public were not even trusted to be told how many houses they

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would build. And how was it launched? Very interesting. They

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did not call a press conference. They brought their own photographer,

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took their own photographs. Then they released the news about it.

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They spent �4,000 of the taxpayers' money on employing the top of us to

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take photographs of the Executive. They could not trust themselves to

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be cross examined by the press. That is how they announced it.

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do you respond to that? Or that, for him, is enough evidence that

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this is a car up, and is what this Government is about. Is it? Is

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there a deal between north Belfast and the Maze? Absolutely.

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Everything is a car up to Jim. I was involved in negotiations. At no

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time was the Maze brought into this. In fact, the leadership in Sinn

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Fein did not know where we were with it. It was a local issue. And

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what amazes me a wee bit about this, I understand the cynicism and

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scepticism, in any other circumstance, in north Belfast,

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often described as a microcosm of the conflict, which has the most

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number of peace walls in the north, and we make a breakthrough. A

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potential breakthrough, in any case. A potential breakthrough for the

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first time. We get parties diametrically opposed. All the

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parties, because we have had five spokes people altogether, who did

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sign up to this, who agreed to it, and for the record, I was the one

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who did not want to do the press conference. We wanted the press

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conference. It was then agreed, in fairness to him, that we would do a

:11:58.:12:08.
:12:08.:12:14.

On the news for three days, he knows nothing about North Belfast.

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On one hand he is talking about cutting 350 families, another is

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200. Another is 220. This was never going to solve the problems.

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Objective need is at the basis of Sinn Fein policy. Why did you then

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roll back from a position were over 200 houses were going to be built

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for nationalists in the area? elyou. You are not answering that

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question. You are taking this site, you are talking about 27 acres.

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It's 14 acres. The other 13 are in the jail, you can't build houses in

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the jail. You were never going to solve the problem with that. What

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you were able to do was builds on it where there hasn't been a brick

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put down in six years. All the arguments against this is based on

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the fact that in some way people want it to be a derelict site for

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another ten years. The people of North Belfast deserve better.

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the urgent need of housing on North Belfast on the nationalist side of

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the house or the unionist side of the house There is a waiting list

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:13:29.:13:29.

of 2,400 families. Of that, 90% are nationalist. That is not 90%, 10%

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in terms of the housing build built. 200 other houses are being built in

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North Belfast. We have houses up in the numbers there will be 700 in

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the end. We are working in a lot of places to build houses. The

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concentration of this argument ended up on one side. You cannot

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just have housing without amenities. Three schools - Why have you given

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up on the basic principles of need and equality? Three schools which

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haven't had facilities for their children have them in the Girdwood

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site. Why have you given up on the basic principles of need? I have

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not. You have. No. Part of the SDLP are saying. That I haven't him

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saying it was a great idea. He has more detail there are serious

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issues he isn't happy with. Let's hear from David McWilliams. What do

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you make of what has been very much dominating the agenda here over the

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past week? If you look at it from the outside, to answer the

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gentleman's question about vision and leadership. It seems

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extraordinary, Mark, to me, absolutely extraordinary, that we

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will still be talking about this, what from the outside this narsism

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of small difference. If you say blacks live here and whites live

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here. You would be, you can't do that in this day of age. It strikes

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me as a southerner, married to a northerner, that the only way that

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this con stphrict can be made normal is if you school children

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together. Now, if you school children together you begin the

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process of familiarisation, were people hang out together. They

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realise, I'm of a southern Catholic background, married to my wife a

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northern Protestant. My children don't have horns. They have normal

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children. The only way you are going, to over the next ten years,

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begin the process of normalisation is if the leaders of the various

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different groups lead. And maybe, if you could put in the middle this

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an integrated school were the children should go. Not an option,

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but should go, so you have a responsibility as well with your

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housing rights. Ultimately, Mark, if this doesn't happen, we will go

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around the circle again and again much we will be here in 20 years

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time and there will be another issue like this. I want to go to

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the audience. In Girdwood you will have sports facilities which will

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be used by Catholic schools and grammar schools. They will not have

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an integrated school? No. They will have shared facilities that will

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enable that interface. That is visionary. It's divided and you

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begin the process of non-division at a young age were people realise

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they are not that different. David, thank you very much. I want to go

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to the audience. APPLAUSE

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Let's hear from Peter who asked the question. What is your response?

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appreciate David's point about visionary relationship and to start

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it early. Integrated education seems the best way of doing that.

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Do you believe there is a carve-up. Do you think there is a connection

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between what is happening in North Belfast and the Maze? It haes's

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hard for us on the outside to know. Will they do progressive steps and

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change things up. We don't want the same scenario in ten to 15 years

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time. On the left. I live in the North Belfast area, I would like

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the decisions made on the interface issues as well as equality for

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housing for all throughout Northern Ireland to be made in the Assembly.

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The people who made that decision struggled for six years to come to

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a decision which would accommodate some very ten yus issues in the

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community. Is it a good decision? Yes. It's a good decision because

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of the unique situation that happens in interfaces. The fact

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that we have the two largest parties coming together for this

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decision. I think the big thing is, why then, in two television

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programmes, was that six years of negotiation allowed to be pushed

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aside for a quick gimmick in the media. I think the media have acted

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irresponsiblibly in this. I'm not quite sure what you are talking

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about specifically. The most successful capital expenditure in

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Belfast in recent times hasn't involved to any great degree

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politicians or indeed social housing. Taking a greater

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appreciation of the Girdwood development has no-one considered

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that the University Ulster will decant less than 500 metres from

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the Girdwood barracks, to get involvement from them would take

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away contentiousness from that area? Part of the negotiations were

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with the University of Ulster and they were offered to look at the

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site and if they had any ideas. That conservation was done with

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them drve conversation was done with them. It will be a catalyst

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for regeneration and revive that whole area. That will have a knock-

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on effect. We need clarity on the basic issue and the issue that

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caused much contention. However many houses there are on that site,

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will they be allocated on the basis of objective need? If we have an

:19:29.:19:39.
:19:39.:19:39.

answer to that we can say there is an onus on the politicians and

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whatever else ifs on that site will have to be top-class, and people

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who don't live in the area will want to go there and people who

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live in the area will have confidence and pride about their

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communities. Will it be based on need? If you listen to Jonathan

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Bell, the two of us are speaking the same language. The law say it

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is has to be on need. Housing is allocated... Housing list comes

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down to individuals. Housing is allocated on the basis of an

:20:13.:20:18.

individual. If the individual has a need, it doesn't matter on their

:20:18.:20:24.

religion or were where they come from, they should be offered that

:20:24.:20:28.

house. Why wasn't the Housing Executive involved? Somebody over

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here said the Ulster University should be avoid. The Housing

:20:31.:20:36.

Executive may not of been involved. Isn't that just a little bit

:20:36.:20:39.

surprising? No. You have to understand, I don't know why you

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don't understand that parties who are so wide apart did not need

:20:43.:20:47.

somewhere quie tote sit down and work through their differences and

:20:47.:20:51.

come to a conclusion. Why don't you tell us how many houses. We don't

:20:51.:20:55.

know the answer to that. We have been talking about people not

:20:55.:20:59.

wanting to live together. You can see from the likes of Northern

:20:59.:21:04.

Ireland Life and Times Survey that people do want to live together.

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They don't want to move into old areas were they will be in a

:21:08.:21:12.

minority and won't feel security. This was a new site with the

:21:12.:21:15.

opportunity to allow people who wish to to live together. You've

:21:16.:21:20.

screwed that up. Well done. APPLAUSE

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Thanks very much. Our second question tonight. Thank you to

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Peter for our first question. Next question is from Leanne Dunlop who

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is an unemployed journalist from ball money. How can Northern

:21:34.:21:39.

Ireland people be better placed to cope with the worsening eurozone

:21:39.:21:45.

CrySys? David McWilliams? account people in Northern Ireland

:21:45.:21:49.

be better placed? Because you have sterling. You are isolated in terms

:21:49.:21:54.

of at least the exchange rate. What is happening in the euro zone is

:21:54.:21:58.

that the euro economy has three major problems. It has too much

:21:58.:22:02.

debt. It hasn't enough growth. It doesn't have any political

:22:02.:22:07.

leadership. Now, you put those three together, no political

:22:07.:22:11.

leadership, Germany pulling one way, France, Italy and Spain possibly

:22:11.:22:16.

pulling the other way. You have too much debt, inherited from the last

:22:16.:22:21.

ten years. You also have no growth in the economies. So, in economics,

:22:21.:22:25.

the most important thing to do in a CrySys is really define your

:22:25.:22:29.

reality. Not as you would like it to be, but as it actually is. It

:22:29.:22:34.

strikes me that what you have is Germany wants to keep the euro in

:22:34.:22:39.

place, because Germany does very well out of it. Germany trades with

:22:39.:22:44.

the eurozone. Huge, huge trader and it sells. It also, because it's in

:22:44.:22:47.

the eurozone, gets a subsidy. If its currency was the Deutschmark,

:22:47.:22:52.

it is a used to be, it would be much, much stronger than it is. So,

:22:52.:22:56.

for those two reasons, also now, in the CrySys, money is flowing out of

:22:56.:23:01.

Ireland, flowing out of Spain, out of Italy into Germany. Germans are

:23:01.:23:05.

getting low interest rates. It's like, it is interesting you are

:23:05.:23:08.

talking about neighbourhoods. It's like a house-proud neighbour in a

:23:09.:23:12.

bad neighbourhood. The Germans are the house-proud neighbour. They

:23:12.:23:16.

have a lovely lawn. They wash their cars all the time. They fix the

:23:16.:23:22.

gates. All around increasingly they are surrounded by delinquents. Even

:23:22.:23:26.

the French are threatening to go rogue. The Germans are getting

:23:26.:23:31.

worried. The question for the rest of us Europeans is what price the

:23:31.:23:34.

Germans put on cleaning up the neighbourhood. I believe, as

:23:34.:23:39.

somebody who watches this on a daily basis, that Germany is

:23:39.:23:44.

prepared to pay a larger price than it's letting on, which is obvious.

:23:44.:23:48.

The rest of Europe just hasn't quite figured out the exstopbt

:23:48.:23:53.

which the Germans are prepared to pay. -- extent to which the Germans

:23:53.:23:58.

are prepared to pay. That is the big bargain over the next two or

:23:58.:24:01.

three months. If Greece chooses to leave the euro the CrySys gets

:24:01.:24:07.

worse. In terms of Northern Ireland, what you have got is, to an extent,

:24:07.:24:11.

you have the protection of being with sterling. Sterling has proved

:24:11.:24:15.

itself to be, I think many people are surprised by this, reasonably

:24:15.:24:20.

strong and stable in the face of what has been a pretty catastrophic

:24:20.:24:25.

economic back drop over the last year. OK. Interesting and very

:24:25.:24:29.

colourful analogy that you use there as far as the Germans are

:24:29.:24:32.

concerned. You wrote a piece for the Financial Times today. I want

:24:33.:24:36.

to hear from Sammy. Are you saying we are in a stronger position than

:24:36.:24:40.

the Republic of Ireland, but we are maybe a little bit more vulnerable

:24:40.:24:44.

that other parts of the UK? I think because of the trade with the South

:24:44.:24:49.

is quite significant here. Also the general facing of industrial policy

:24:49.:24:54.

is broadly the same, in terms of attracting inward investment etc. A,

:24:54.:24:58.

we have the trade with the South, which most people see as

:24:59.:25:03.

Sainsbury's in Newry. It's greater than that. You're not half as

:25:03.:25:09.

exposed. You don't have a land boarder. You don't have a land

:25:09.:25:13.

boarder, the rest doesn't have the euro zone. If Gordon Brown did

:25:13.:25:17.

anything positive, it was those five tests he put in a couple of

:25:17.:25:20.

years ago. I think the people in the UK are much better off outside

:25:20.:25:24.

the euro than they would of been otherwise. Very interesting to hear

:25:24.:25:32.

that. David, thank you very much. Do you share his analysis and the

:25:32.:25:35.

position where Northern Ireland is as far as this CrySys is concerned?

:25:35.:25:41.

It's significant that many of those people who were berating us for not

:25:41.:25:47.

joining the euro are quiet on the issue. It was going to be an

:25:47.:25:50.

economic disaster. David has said Germany is prepared to pay a price

:25:50.:25:55.

to clean up the neighbourhood. But, the United Kingdom is being drawn

:25:55.:25:58.

into that clean-up operation as well. That's having an impact on

:25:58.:26:04.

our economy. It's estimated so far, through helping the euro stability

:26:04.:26:10.

and also through the IMF, we have put �67 billion into supporting

:26:10.:26:13.

euro countries. That's money which is being drained from spending in

:26:13.:26:18.

our own economy. I think the first thing I would like to see is the

:26:18.:26:22.

Government, I see it in the Queen's Speech, they have taken the first

:26:22.:26:25.

steps saying, we are no longer going to be responsible for a mess

:26:25.:26:30.

we aren't part of. Because of the existing situation in Europe,

:26:30.:26:34.

European markets are not going to grow for a long time. One of the

:26:34.:26:37.

things, which I think increasingly Northern Ireland firms must do, is

:26:37.:26:41.

look at the growing markets. That is what Arlene Foster is doing,

:26:41.:26:46.

India, China, Brazil, Africa some of those areas were growth is 8%,

:26:47.:26:53.

9%. That is where the markets were. Would you like to see the euro

:26:53.:27:03.
:27:03.:27:07.

The one thing however, the longer we keep trying to sustain an

:27:07.:27:12.

unsustainable position, and money being lent to sustain that position,

:27:12.:27:20.

we will respect growth in our own economy. -- restrict growth. And

:27:20.:27:24.

then being able to restore competitiveness and get wet on the

:27:24.:27:30.

Strait jacket that being part of the euro demands, like Greece.

:27:30.:27:35.

agree, particularly with the last point. The weaker economies in

:27:35.:27:41.

Europe are never going to prosper within the eurozone because it is

:27:41.:27:48.

so arranged against all their interests. They joined, they had

:27:48.:27:52.

different challenges and their economy, they had to subject their

:27:52.:27:57.

entire economy to the central control of the European Central

:27:57.:28:03.

Bank, they set their interest rates, they decided what they could borrow,

:28:03.:28:08.

then they decided you could not borrow up above 3%. This said a

:28:08.:28:14.

whole culture of borrowing, which the smaller countries borrowed, and

:28:14.:28:19.

they are left in the position to pick up the pieces. They need to

:28:19.:28:24.

have their own currencies again. They need to control their own

:28:24.:28:31.

money supply, and maybe just begin to rebuild their economies. But

:28:31.:28:37.

mile my, how thankful we should be, in the United Kingdom, but we never

:28:37.:28:47.
:28:47.:28:47.

entered the folly of the eurozone! APPLAUSE. The key difficulty for

:28:47.:28:52.

most people watching is the pace of change and uncertainty. We seemed

:28:52.:28:56.

to be lurching from crisis to crisis, and it is very difficult to

:28:56.:29:01.

know what will happen. The tectonic plates are shifting, and we do not

:29:01.:29:05.

know what direction they are shifting. If we go back to the

:29:05.:29:09.

example of Germany, it suits them to have a number of weaker

:29:09.:29:12.

economies. They are happy to throw a few crumbs and the weaker

:29:12.:29:18.

economies and keep the men. The bigger issue is, we have seen a

:29:18.:29:25.

change of regime, in France, and we are all waiting on a political

:29:25.:29:31.

election in Germany. Whatever Germany rejects austerity and goes

:29:31.:29:35.

for a socialist government? Is the whole euro project back on? It was

:29:35.:29:41.

not about the euro, it was about fiscal and monetary union. The

:29:41.:29:47.

first thing they would say Thailand is, you have to adjust your

:29:47.:29:55.

corporation tax. -- say to Ireland. Where are we, as far as Northern

:29:55.:29:58.

Ireland is concerned? Would you like to see the Republic out of the

:29:58.:30:04.

euro? I do not think that is what the referendum is about. It is

:30:04.:30:14.
:30:14.:30:14.

about sovereignty. The strongest economy... We are also in the EU.

:30:14.:30:21.

You cannot think we are immune. We are not. The referendum, taking

:30:21.:30:28.

place on Thursday, is giving more sovereignty to it. But also to

:30:28.:30:33.

Germany. Yes, we are against it. I do not know if we were when that

:30:33.:30:41.

referendum, but they are looking at -- looking something like 6 billion

:30:41.:30:51.
:30:51.:30:53.

out of the economy. Austerity could mean years on years. Let us go back

:30:53.:31:00.

to Leeanne. Your thoughts on what we have heard so far? From my point

:31:00.:31:07.

of view, an average everyday persona would do well to increase

:31:07.:31:13.

their ties. Anybody else want to make a quick comment on this? Happy

:31:13.:31:19.

to take your thoughts or not as the case may be. Gentlemen, in the

:31:19.:31:28.

second row. I am asking Mr Kelly, would you still go into the urine

:31:29.:31:38.
:31:39.:31:47.

now? -- into the euro? That is a different question. Balaam bustard

:31:47.:31:57.
:31:57.:31:57.

the money. So, what faith is there for an economist now? We have

:31:57.:32:05.

always argued for a relationship with Europe but Coventry. You are a

:32:05.:32:11.

smaller country, it is more important. Let us move on to our

:32:11.:32:18.

third question tonight.,. Should there be a bank holiday thought the

:32:18.:32:28.
:32:28.:32:31.

Easter rising? LAUGHTER. Has it been raised around the Executive

:32:31.:32:40.

table at Stormont? It may well have been. But yes, of course. We are

:32:40.:32:47.

talking about partnership. There art Republicans who have a view of

:32:47.:32:51.

things that that should be respected in the same way as issues

:32:51.:33:00.

which affect Unionists. Absolutely not. There is no comparison between

:33:00.:33:04.

the Diamond Jubilee of our sovereign in the United Kingdom and

:33:04.:33:10.

some foreign, grubby field rebellion 100 years ago. There is

:33:10.:33:18.

nothing to celebrate about that, other than the feeling. If they

:33:18.:33:23.

want a celebrated, celebrating. Celebrate it in the Republic of

:33:23.:33:27.

Ireland, not Northern Ireland. In Northern Ireland we do have

:33:27.:33:32.

something we should be celebrating - the centenary of the Ulster

:33:32.:33:37.

Covenant, which was part of the building blocks of Northern Ireland.

:33:37.:33:41.

When it was the 50th anniversary, there was a public holiday in

:33:41.:33:46.

Northern Ireland to market, but under Sinn Fein rule, there will be

:33:46.:33:51.

no public holiday to mark the centenary. But Nadal, there will be

:33:52.:34:01.
:34:02.:34:02.

moves to get a public holiday to celebrate the 1916 rising. I repute

:34:02.:34:12.

D8 the comparison. You cannot a me everything you agree with should be

:34:12.:34:21.

celebrating! Or that is not what I am saying. We celebrate the Diamond

:34:21.:34:26.

Jubilee of our sovereign. If there is another country which thinks

:34:26.:34:30.

there is an important event in our history, then they can celebrated

:34:30.:34:37.

for as long and in whatever manner they choose. I think Jim's answer

:34:37.:34:41.

an attitude highlights why we need to think very carefully about the

:34:41.:34:44.

very important commemorations coming up over the next number of

:34:44.:34:48.

years and how we would deal with them. And how we deal with them in

:34:48.:34:55.

a way which respects diversity and different communities. To refer to

:34:55.:35:00.

something as rubbery and derogatory language, does not move fast

:35:00.:35:10.
:35:10.:35:11.

forward one iota. APPLAUSE. We do have to make a distinction between

:35:11.:35:15.

things which pertain to the United Kingdom and events which may be

:35:15.:35:19.

important to Republicans, but which pertain to another country. If we

:35:19.:35:24.

will have days in which we set aside, for celebration, then they

:35:24.:35:31.

should be pertinent to our own country. The Americans celebrate

:35:31.:35:37.

fourth July. We do not expected to be a public holiday here. The same

:35:37.:35:42.

as Bastille Day in France, an important day for the French. The

:35:42.:35:52.
:35:52.:35:53.

Queen's Jubilee is important in the UK. The 1916 rising is something

:35:53.:35:58.

which is pertinent to the history of another sovereign country, which

:35:58.:36:06.

happens to Sir the same island as we do. Indeed, if people in

:36:06.:36:09.

Northern Ireland field and affiliation, I am sure they can

:36:09.:36:13.

think of appropriate ways in which that can be done. I personally

:36:13.:36:17.

would not take the view they should not have the right to celebrate,

:36:17.:36:20.

but I do not think it should be given the same status as something

:36:20.:36:27.

which is naturally important to the UK. How significant is it that

:36:27.:36:37.
:36:37.:36:38.

Martin McGuinness will consider a proposal to market give it? People

:36:38.:36:43.

ask, is there no vision in Northern Ireland? Peter Robinson has sought

:36:43.:36:48.

ways to reach out to be nationalist and republican community to show we

:36:48.:36:53.

want to work our way forward, and has taken steps to do that. I hope

:36:53.:37:03.
:37:03.:37:03.

that Martin McGuinness will reciprocate the steps. Jim, you

:37:03.:37:13.
:37:13.:37:32.

already seller but something that APPLAUSE. If you want to get into

:37:32.:37:37.

the politics of insults and slurs, it does not bring you forward at

:37:37.:37:47.
:37:47.:37:50.

all. The battle of the Boyne was of European significance. It was

:37:50.:37:54.

particularly of significance to the formation and constitutional

:37:54.:37:59.

formation of this United Kingdom, because at the same time, the bill

:37:59.:38:09.

of Rights was made. But you take his broader point but it is more

:38:09.:38:14.

complicated than you suggested. There is nothing for me to

:38:14.:38:19.

celebrate in a 1916 rising in another place. With the respect, it

:38:19.:38:24.

is not about you celebrating. It is about allowing other people to

:38:24.:38:32.

celebrate. That is deep one! If you are saying to me that a rebellion

:38:32.:38:39.

by Irish rebels, akin to the murderous activities of the IRA,

:38:39.:38:46.

should be celebrated in Northern Ireland, then I'm sorry. I do not

:38:46.:38:51.

agree. This is not about you! This is about the future everyone.

:38:51.:39:01.

us go back to collar. I agree with what jury was saying. On the same

:39:01.:39:10.

basis at the Jubilee? Yes. I am from Northern Ireland, but I hold

:39:10.:39:18.

an Irish passport. I call myself a proud Irish Republican. I do not

:39:18.:39:23.

care whether it you support the butler Boyne or not, but I am an

:39:23.:39:29.

Irish republican. I am proud of the Easter rebellion. I am not pursuing

:39:29.:39:33.

anything on you. I warned not to celebrate the Queen's Jubilee

:39:33.:39:39.

because I do not recognise her. you want to dawn in the

:39:39.:39:44.

celebrations, you can go to Dublin to do that. Let me tell you, north,

:39:44.:39:51.

east, south or west, I have an Irish passport. Would you support

:39:51.:39:57.

it on the same basis as the Diamond Jubilee? Certainly. Quick comment

:39:57.:40:01.

from the gentleman in the back road. Just because Jim it does not

:40:01.:40:06.

appreciate what happened in 1916, does he believe any Republican does

:40:06.:40:11.

not have the right to celebrate anything he believes in? I think

:40:11.:40:17.

Jim has answered that already. Thank you for raising the question.

:40:17.:40:23.

Next question from David Nickson, a community volunteer. With the power

:40:23.:40:33.
:40:33.:40:40.

and agree about action? I think there is a very sorry history of

:40:40.:40:45.

foreign intervention. We can all lament the dreadful situation in

:40:45.:40:55.
:40:55.:40:56.

Syria, the huge humanitarian disaster that it is. But when

:40:56.:41:00.

military intervention has been done in the past, getting in has been

:41:00.:41:05.

easy. Sorting out has been difficult. Getting a has been even

:41:05.:41:15.
:41:15.:41:15.

more difficult. We need sobriety with this matter. The international

:41:15.:41:22.

community need to maximise all the pressure it can on the Syrian

:41:22.:41:31.

regime and, hopefully, in due course, that might bring delivery.

:41:31.:41:36.

But if anyone intervenes, it has to be international, not just in

:41:36.:41:42.

intervention by components. We have seen in Iraq and Afghanistan the

:41:42.:41:49.

country's left to carry the can. How does the situation in Syria

:41:49.:41:58.

You could construct an argument for Libya and Syria. I'm cautioning it

:41:59.:42:03.

is easier to get in, harder to get out. We want to do what we can. We

:42:03.:42:08.

need to be careful about launching in without too much thought. Sammy?

:42:08.:42:14.

I fear that the example that you gave, Mark, of what happened in

:42:14.:42:18.

Libya may well act as a catalyst for intervention in Syria. I think

:42:18.:42:23.

we were lucky we got out of Libya as easily as what we did get out of

:42:23.:42:27.

that situation. We could of been dragged into something much more

:42:27.:42:32.

protracted, etc. We have to get to the point - when we see the

:42:32.:42:37.

shocking pictures that there have been about bodies strewn across the

:42:37.:42:42.

street and the atrocities, etc, of course, naturally, people say we

:42:42.:42:45.

shouldn't allow this to happen. We have to be careful that, as a

:42:45.:42:49.

country, we do not have the resources to become the conscience

:42:49.:42:57.

of the world and the policeman of the world. To intervene in

:42:57.:43:02.

situations which, you know we put our own citizens at danger in and

:43:02.:43:06.

sometimes we really don't have a very clear way of getting out. We

:43:06.:43:11.

don't know what the outcome is going to be. The Government has

:43:11.:43:16.

taken the right attitude wesm have put diplomatic pressure. Diplomatic

:43:16.:43:20.

expulsion, do they have any effect? I think they will have an effect. I

:43:20.:43:25.

think by doing that we also will help to consolidate, perhaps, more

:43:25.:43:29.

international action in Syria, but I think we have to be extremely

:43:29.:43:34.

careful. I would be the same as Jim, I would urge caution because the

:43:34.:43:38.

gung ho attitude that some political leaders had in the United

:43:38.:43:42.

Kingdom, were they felt they had to have a good war to show they were a

:43:42.:43:49.

good political leader and left many broken lives behind them. We are in

:43:49.:43:53.

danger of consensus. I agree with the last two speakers. I think we

:43:53.:43:56.

have to be very careful in any intervention. All the evidence is

:43:56.:44:01.

there that it doesn't work. I do think that diplomatic pressure is

:44:01.:44:06.

very, very important. It has worked in the past. It should continue to

:44:06.:44:14.

be put on. If there is truly, the true judgment, I think the Speaker

:44:14.:44:18.

said, "if needs be", how do you work out what that is? The true

:44:18.:44:23.

reading of what is happening in any country is the popular uprising is

:44:23.:44:28.

the fact that the people themselves turn against their government in a

:44:28.:44:32.

democratic way and replace them. That has also happened. I don't

:44:32.:44:37.

think can jump in front of the people in any of these cases.

:44:37.:44:40.

Deirdre Heenan j gentleman I would agree with what has been said. The

:44:41.:44:44.

UK has had their fingers burnt. We know the difficulties of jumping in.

:44:44.:44:48.

You get in and you can't get out. We were lucky to get out. This time,

:44:48.:44:52.

what we have to do is say, what is available to us other than saying

:44:52.:44:56.

it's up to us to come in as the white knight on the charger. We

:44:57.:45:00.

have to change public opinions. I think we have to raise awareness.

:45:00.:45:04.

What surprises me is how many people are unaware of what's going

:45:04.:45:08.

on in Syria. It isn't making the front pages of the newspapers. It

:45:08.:45:13.

has over the last few days? Until that. The tipping point was the

:45:13.:45:18.

atrocities at the weekend because it avoided children. There were

:45:18.:45:22.

atrocities on a daily basis and people didn't want to talk about it.

:45:22.:45:26.

This is a tipping point and changing our attitudes and say we

:45:26.:45:34.

need to ensure we we put as much diplomatic pressure. We will see

:45:34.:45:39.

this because Russia is moving away. Libya's many ally was Silvio

:45:39.:45:43.

Berlusconi. Other than it was an isolated country with trade links

:45:43.:45:48.

to Europe. Syria sits in the middle of an alliance of Iran, Russia and

:45:48.:45:54.

China. All of which stand behind, whether we like it or not, the

:45:54.:45:57.

Syrian regime. Against that background is the American fear

:45:57.:46:02.

that Iran, through Iraq, and into the Shia Muslims in Syria and into

:46:02.:46:08.

Lebanon are created an arc of Shia Muslims. It's really complicated.

:46:08.:46:14.

The great tragedy of Syria is that Syria is only a pawn in a huge game

:46:14.:46:19.

were China wants oil, were Russia wants influence and were Iran wants

:46:19.:46:24.

domination. Against that background I think it is a totally different

:46:24.:46:30.

case, not only to Libya, but to possibly also to Iraq earlier on.

:46:30.:46:36.

OK. Thank you very much David. David Nixon who asked the question.

:46:36.:46:40.

My opinion is, if Britain or any other nation in the world could

:46:40.:46:44.

help, they should because all life should be valued. There is innocent

:46:44.:46:48.

people dying in the streets now as we're speaking. You think more

:46:48.:46:56.

needs to be done you are not satisfied with diplomatic expulsion.

:46:56.:47:00.

Expulsion people into fancy hotels who are not leaving the country

:47:00.:47:05.

they are being expelled from isn't going to do any good. What about

:47:05.:47:13.

Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya? Well, I agree with military action them. It

:47:13.:47:16.

has helped people out and built towns and cities. I would do the

:47:16.:47:24.

same thing again. Our next question from Orla, a student in Carrickmor.

:47:24.:47:29.

I would like to ask, what is going to happen to the lost generation?

:47:29.:47:36.

OK, the lost generation. Which we have talked about a lot. What do

:47:36.:47:40.

you think the lost generation is and what can be done for people who

:47:40.:47:43.

are coming out of school without qualifications in many instances,

:47:43.:47:47.

finding it very hard to get into the workplace? Even people with

:47:47.:47:50.

qualifications seriously struggling at the moment? Seriously struggling.

:47:51.:47:55.

What we are find something that young people are being

:47:55.:47:58.

disproportionately affected by decisions made by adults that they

:47:58.:48:03.

had no part of. They are in the difficult position of having gained

:48:03.:48:05.

qualifications and finding there is nowhere for them. We are working

:48:05.:48:09.

hard with a number of schemes to address that. Within the University

:48:09.:48:13.

of Ulster we place great value on student placements. Placements

:48:13.:48:17.

within the workplace. So that the students can get an idea of what

:48:17.:48:21.

work is like. What the skills are like. They can decide what is for

:48:21.:48:25.

them. The employers know what the students have to offer and we

:48:25.:48:31.

describe our students in many ways as, "oven ready", they have valued

:48:31.:48:35.

experienced within the workplace. We also have to increase the number

:48:35.:48:39.

of apprenticeships and ensure that the employers are well bought into

:48:39.:48:41.

the apprenticeship schemes because this is about ensuring that the

:48:41.:48:46.

skills that we have in our workforce are matched to what our

:48:46.:48:48.

employers need. It is a disgrace that, yes, of course, that people

:48:48.:48:52.

are coming out, they are coming out with student loans and debts and

:48:52.:48:57.

they can't find jobs. There are many ways that our local Assembly

:48:57.:49:03.

can try to address some of these issues by promoting schemes such as

:49:03.:49:07.

the Halo Scheme, such as schemes that the Northern Ireland Science

:49:07.:49:10.

Park to ensure that the young people have the skills which are

:49:10.:49:14.

appropriate for the labour market. Is the Executive doing enough?

:49:14.:49:18.

Couldn't it do more to help young people struggling at the moment?

:49:18.:49:22.

People will always want you to do more. First of all, youth

:49:23.:49:26.

unemployment in Northern Ireland is lower than the UK average. Youth

:49:26.:49:29.

unemployment has fallen over the last year while it has gone

:49:29.:49:33.

newspaper other parts of the United Kingdom. That is as a result of

:49:33.:49:36.

some of the interventions that Deirdre Heenan has talked about.

:49:36.:49:40.

When it comes to public procurement there is a require am on anyone who

:49:40.:49:45.

win as tender to take on apresent sis and to give people the

:49:45.:49:49.

opportunities to get started and get skills. The amount of money we

:49:49.:49:54.

have put into schemes to help with youth unemployment has increased.

:49:54.:50:03.

Indeed, Stephen Farry is drawing up a youth employment strategy which

:50:03.:50:06.

will come to the Assembly soon. lot of young people are leaving

:50:06.:50:09.

Northern Ireland to find work elsewhere? There are. Equally, we

:50:09.:50:15.

have done a number of things. I'm outlined some of them, which is

:50:15.:50:19.

alleviating the problem here in Northern Ireland. We have tried to

:50:19.:50:22.

ensure that students leave university in Northern Ireland with

:50:22.:50:26.

less student debt because we have held down student fees. Making

:50:26.:50:31.

training at that level more attractive to them. It's a problem

:50:31.:50:35.

here and down South? A problem all over the world. If you look at

:50:35.:50:39.

particularly the United States the companies that create most jobs in

:50:39.:50:44.

the United States are companies that employ between five and ten

:50:44.:50:48.

people. This is were jobs are being created. Big companies are

:50:48.:50:51.

destroying jobs around the world. Small companies are were it's at.

:50:51.:50:54.

The companies that created most jobs are companies between one and

:50:54.:50:59.

two years old. It's young, small companies. So that is creating jobs.

:50:59.:51:02.

That is what is absorbing in particularly unemployed younger

:51:02.:51:09.

people. The question you have to do, how do you make a situation were

:51:09.:51:12.

you incentivise small companies to go into business. Here in the North,

:51:12.:51:17.

or in the South. The South has used the tax system effect nifl a

:51:17.:51:22.

variety of ways. For example, maybe Sammy could think about the �60

:51:22.:51:25.

million you have to spend in your back pocket. You might think of

:51:25.:51:30.

maybe putting together something like a tax holiday for companies

:51:30.:51:35.

that are setup in order to employ three or four people for four or

:51:35.:51:39.

five years. You create the incentive to go into business

:51:39.:51:42.

because something like this can work extraordinarily well in small

:51:42.:51:45.

countries. The interesting thing about small countries is

:51:45.:51:49.

individuals matter enormously. People who step up to the plate

:51:49.:51:54.

matter enormously. If you give incentive. There is a company in

:51:54.:52:04.

Newry called first Derivities. If they can do it in Newry, they can

:52:04.:52:12.

do it better in there than in New York.

:52:13.:52:16.

APPLAUSE Briefly, if you would? Two quick

:52:16.:52:20.

points. There is no easy answer. I think we all know. That there are

:52:20.:52:26.

schemes like Steps to Work, to help people who are really quite

:52:26.:52:32.

unskilled. I think the real question is, are the schemes

:52:32.:52:40.

matching the skills to the jobs? I think that's were the disparity is.

:52:40.:52:43.

Thra are maybe soms jobs which aren't being matched to the skills.

:52:43.:52:48.

The second thing, is picking up on the last point about small being

:52:48.:52:54.

beautiful. For too long in Northern Ireland I think, yes, FDIs are

:52:54.:52:58.

important, we pursued the glamour side of things with foreign direct

:52:58.:53:03.

investment and ignored too much of our small industry were much of our

:53:03.:53:07.

employment lies. Very quickly, if you would? An interesting point

:53:07.:53:12.

that David makes and Sammy will remember this. There is a finance

:53:12.:53:18.

project within Europe which allows up to �20,000 as a grant to young

:53:18.:53:24.

people. The problem is the partnership. You have to get the

:53:24.:53:27.

financial institutions to partner people in small and medium

:53:28.:53:31.

enterprises. 90% of all business is small or medium enterprise. It's a

:53:31.:53:35.

reflection of what you are saying about the outside world. Thank you

:53:35.:53:41.

very much. Orla, a final comment. Are you satisfied? There should be

:53:41.:53:46.

a bigger emphasis on bringing schemes with the likes of coming

:53:46.:53:48.

out with education and qualifications should be getting

:53:48.:53:54.

jobs at the end of it. You think it's a big problem? Yeah. One last

:53:54.:54:04.
:54:04.:54:04.

question, if we are quick. Has the Eurovision Song Contest become too

:54:04.:54:09.

political for the UK and Ireland to win again? That's the serious

:54:09.:54:19.
:54:19.:54:20.

question of the night. What happened to Jed ward and enge ange

:54:20.:54:24.

elBert. It was the flat hair that got them. It a fair question after

:54:24.:54:30.

watching. Maybe it's down to the talent of the offerings that we

:54:30.:54:40.
:54:40.:54:46.

present. They said they were going to win. They came 18th. The British

:54:46.:54:52.

entry came 4 1st. I wasn't watching. Not very good. Has it become

:54:52.:54:56.

political, seriously? It seems to me, Ireland won it six times in a

:54:56.:55:00.

row, I think it came to the point were countries are trying to avoid

:55:00.:55:05.

hosting it. It has passed its sell- by-date. I don't know if it's

:55:05.:55:08.

talent. I didn't watch it, I didn't watch it last year or the year

:55:08.:55:12.

before. I have no great interest. I don't think it's political, it's

:55:12.:55:17.

lost its edge anyway. Is it because people don't like the UK, is that

:55:17.:55:23.

why they are not voting? I wouldn't say that. I think... What would you

:55:23.:55:28.

say? I don't know whether it's become too political. It's become

:55:28.:55:33.

too farcical to even want to win. It's something which I think is

:55:33.:55:41.

well past its sell-by-date. Were you not charmed by the Russian

:55:41.:55:45.

grannies? To enthralled I didn't watch them. I'm told they were the

:55:45.:55:50.

only act worth watching. It has really gone beyond a serious

:55:50.:55:57.

competition. The voting within it is political. That undermines it

:55:57.:56:01.

further. Sammy? I couldn't tell you. I didn't know it was on until

:56:01.:56:05.

tonight when I saw it in the briefing. Whether it's political or

:56:05.:56:12.

not. Europe can make everything political, even songs. You didn't

:56:12.:56:16.

watch Jedward? I didn't know it was on. On Saturday with the sun

:56:16.:56:21.

shining I spent it out in the garden. What I want to know, did

:56:21.:56:27.

you watch it when it was all about Abba and the Brotherhood of Man.

:56:27.:56:34.

I quite like Abba. I still liked Abba. It was a Swedish band, woman

:56:34.:56:40.

that won this time roun. Not Abba. I thought in this Executive he

:56:40.:56:47.

liked all kinds of everything. it's money I like! Were you

:56:47.:56:52.

watching? I didn't see. It I was out at the Mayor's Ball. That is a

:56:52.:57:01.

different story! I think it's lost its shine. It's not a song

:57:01.:57:04.

competition any more. It's a dressing competition. There was a

:57:04.:57:11.

time when people felt they wanted to compete to win now it's

:57:11.:57:21.
:57:21.:57:22.

something that people have parties in their house to watch. Losing to

:57:22.:57:26.

Ulster would of been tragic. Some people were breathing a shy of

:57:26.:57:34.

relief that Jedward didn't get beyond 18th. Thank you to our pan

:57:34.:57:39.

Elf guests and our student audience. Thank you to you at home for

:57:39.:57:45.

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