28/05/2013 Spotlight

Who has actually asked for a shrine to terrorism to be constructed at

the Maze? Nobody! Martin hasn't. Martin has made it very clear that

he doesn't want a shrine to terrorism, he wants a shrine to

for the Maze prison site, designed to show the world how far we've

come, so why can't we agree what to put in it? Here history is live and

contested and can often be used as a stick to beat your opponents with.

The First Minister says he will have the final say on what goes

inside the buildings, but can that stop the old prison, where Bobby

Sands the hunger striker died over 30 years ago, becoming a shrine to

Republican terrorism? As Jeffrey Donaldson said that the name of

Bobby Sands will not even be mentioned, that's so farcical that

no one should believe it. Many victims remain unconvinced that it

would become a shrine. It will become a shrine. They should have

This year, the Royal Ulster Agricultural Society moved its show

to its new home outside Lisburn and it proved a hit, with record

numbers attending the three-day event. You could almost forget what

this place used to be. Bringing the show here to the site of the former

Maze Prison is the first move in one of the biggest redevelopments

in Europe, with the potential to provide a major economic boost.

You've got 347 acres here, so you're talking about something

that's twice the size of the Titanic Quarter and four times the

We're talking about a target of over 5,000 jobs. We're talking

about an investment of about �300 million so pretty significant stuff.

The success of the new Balmoral Show here at its new site and this

is exactly what those in Stormont have in mind for this place, But

perhaps the success of this whole project lies with the decision of

what to do with the old prison buildings behind me, and the

divisions that this is causing not just in government but amongst

victims. There will be industrial areas and office complexes, but at

the the heart of the project are plans for an �18 million building

dedicated to peace, with plans to utilise what remains of the prison,

just 30 metres away. The go-ahead was given last month, and that re-

ignited a bitter row over the project. I set off to find out if

one of the most divisive sites in Northern Ireland is the right place

to put a building dedicicated to reconcilliation. And, given the

site's history, will it inevitably become a shrine to terrorism?

The Maze began life as an internment camp called Long Kesh

with Nissen huts initially housing the prisoners in 1971. For the next

29 years, it was the scene of some of the Troubles' most defining

moments. Protest and murder took place wtihin its walls. But it will

always be strongly associated with the hunger strikes of the 1980s, in

which 10 Republican prisoners died. Raymond McCartney was 17 when he

was first imprisoned in the Maze. In 1979 he joined the dirty protest,

demanding the right to be treated as a political prisoner. He

remembers the call going out two years later for volunteers to

escalate the protest to a hunger strike. It was spelt out in

explicit terms what hunger strike could and would mean, and I

remember making the decision, doing a lot of soul searching, asking

questions of myself, I volunteered my name that I felt that I felt

that the decision was the right one to make, and also it was a personal

one which I wanted to make, as well. We are prepared to die to prove

that we are special prisoners. spent 53 days on hunger strike.

Without food, his body began to shut down. You found that your

ability to focus your eyes, it wasn't so much that your eye sight

failed, but your ability to hold your eyes and focus was

deteriorating because the muscles around your eyes were obviously

wasting. That meant then that your eyes weren't in full control.

Wanting to get up out of bed became... You know, you were

comfortable lying in bed, whereas your instinct would have been

normally up to do a bit of walking about. By the end of the hunger

strikes, 10 men had starved themselves to death. The first to

die was 27-year-old Bobby Sands. The story of the hunger strikes

reverberated around the world. For Raymond McCartney, this makes it

the ideal spot to build a peace center. Many of us see it as part

of our lives. You take into consideration the impact that the

hunger strike had on the wider political situation in Ireland and

abroad, therefore, to us, it's just something that's a historical site

and should be preserved. But what about the victims of the

Troubles? I wanted to find out what they thought about the Maze as a

location to build peace. On the 5th January, 1976, Bea Worton's son

Kenneth was one of 12 men travelling home from work when

their minibus was ambushed in Kingsmills in County Armagh by

Republican paramilitaries. I was cooking the dinner in the kitchen.

Then some lady came in from a nearby house. She had heard more in

the news than us. She said, "Bea, will you not get up and go up the

road, for your son is lying dead?". That is her exact words she said.

That's the exact words she said to me. He was 24 and he had two wee

girls. One of them was only three and the other one was six. The wee

one at three had his table set for him coming home from his work -

knife, fork and spoon. In the paper the next day there was: "Daddy

Didn't Come Home". Colin Worton was only 15 when his

brother Kenneth was killed. He was great and I think you always want

to end up like your older brother. I was robbed of actually seeing,

because I was still a child myself The pain and sense of loss has

never left them It made me, at 15 years of age, hate somebody I

didn't know. What did it achieve? Nothing. It only achieved that we

have an empty seat and this... It is eating away at us like cancer.

No-one has ever been convicted for the Kingsmills Massacre, but hunger

striker Raymond McCreesh was later caught with a weapon linked to the

attack Colin believes putting the peace site at the Maze would become

a shrine to those involved in his brother's murder. We are totally

opposed to anything to be left. The H-Block, Hospital Wing or whatever

else they have. Totally opposed. They should have flattened the

whole lot of it. I do feel it will During the decades the prison was

open, it was often seen as a microcosom of the Troubles -

marking moments of turmoil and the move towards peace. Its doors

finally closed in 2000 and they have remained so ever since. For

some Unionist critics of the planned peace building, the site

will be a permanent insult to those bereaved in the Troubles. It will

be a place where people gather to exalt in and to glorify in what

those who were rightfully in that prison did and to totally ignore

why they were in prison and the crimes they committed and the

stream of victims they left behind them. I don't think any of us want

to glorify anything. No Republican wants that to happen, all we want

to happen on that site is that people are allowed to tell the

history of the site, no glory. Because when we look back, in

conflict there is no glory. What we should do is reflect on the pain,

the suffering, the sacrifice and allow people then to reflect on

that. Jim Allister has organised a petition to try and overturn the

plans to locate the peace centre at the Maze and argues what's left of

the prison buildings, which are listed, should be flattened. Well,

if we need a Peace and Reconciliation Centre - and that's

maybe a debate on its own. But, if we do - let me accept that we do

for a moment - why would you ever build on the most divisive site you

can find in Northern Ireland? By choosing to site it cheek-by-jowl

with the prison buildings, you're guaranteeing to tarnish the

building, to blight it and to taint it with the history of the site.

who decided on the current plan? Unionists blame each other,

particularly over the listed status over the retained prison buildings.

The UUP go so far as suggesting a DUP - Sinn Fein deal. It does

appear that the DUP's stance on the Maze changed in 2007, the very year

that Ian Paisley sat down with Gerry Adams and did a deal. Now we

know that they sat down publicly together. They obviously must of

sat down privately together or a least on behalf of the two parties.

What I would like to know is what they agreed behind the scenes with

regard to the development of the Maze. Well, that simply isn't true.

I have been involved in this issue right throughout and I can assure

you that at no stage did the DUP withdraw their opposition to the

listed building. Well, in 2007, the proposal from Sinn Fein, UUP and

SDLP was to put the peace centre into the retained buildings. We

vetoed that. When we took control of OFMDFM, we said that isn't going

to happen and we held the line until the other parties changed

Deal or no deal, one commentator says, for Republicans, the legacy

of the hunger strikes is non- negotiable. This is something which

had to be done to give the rank and file of the Republican movement,

and particularly and specifically the rank and file of the IRA who

fought the war, they had to be given a stake in what has come out

of their struggle. Academic Kris Brown says all those with vested

interests in the Maze development are mindful of the sensitivities in

their own heartlands. Here, as in common with other divided societies,

history is live and contested and can often be used as a stick to

beat your opponents with. It can used as a valuable resource in the

peace process, not simply to wield over the other community, but also

within your own community. For example, mainstream Republicans

would be very concerned about dissident groups hijacking the

memory of the hunger strikers, if you like. They would be fearful if

they were to abandon the memory of Irish Republican armed struggle

that it won't simply be forgotten about - it will be picked up by

spoiler groups, dissident groups, project have been hard to get hold

of and for some this has increased speculation of a secret deal.

the last few months, Unionists opposing the Maze development say

they've asked for information about the site including details of what

consultation took place and what other locations were considered for

the peace building. They say, they've had no satisfactory answers

as yet. Over the last couple of weeks we have also requested

information on the site - we received no detailed response - but

the office of the First and Deputy First Minister told us they have

consulted with the victims sector. They said the process has been

transparent but that some detail is commercially confidential. I put in

a request to go on to the site, to see where the new peace building is

going to be and take a look at what's left of the prison buildings.

But the fact that this publicly owned land - and funded by Europe

-we still haven't got a response to our request. So, at the moment, this

is as close as I can get to the site of a building that is meant to bring

us closer together. It is over there somewhere. There it is. For some,

the reason we struggle to bring communities closer together is at

the very heart of what's wrong with the peace agreement itself. There is

still a huge job that needs to be done to assist Northern Ireland to

come to terms with its past. Where is the debate about what forgiveness

means? About tolerance? About how we can learn to live together with

former enemies in peace. It is quite clearly an us and them Government.

Every single thing needs to be scheme. The unstated strategy of

some of those involved in these negotiations has been fudged your

way to freedom. But the fudging doesn't settle anything, fudging by

its nature doesn't clarify anything, i think that what we have got up

here is a settlement which is based on permanent negotiations, permanent

disagreement. Its never going to reach an end point. There is never

going to be a point where both the DUP and Sinn Fein are going to say,

there, there is the finished article. Inside this apparent

fudge, and agreements to disagree. A process that at its worst just opens

hierarchy of victims I don't agree with it but there is actually a

hierarchy?. Once you make this moral point and say the man who pulls the

trigger is exactly the same as the man who's brain the bullet went

through, you've debased all of politics, you've debased morality,

you've undermined democracy. There is a hierarchy of victims in

northern ireland that there have been people who have died in the war

or conflict here that nobody particularly wants to remember?..

You know, sometimes when we are debating the hunger strikers who

died?.or the Bloody Sunday people. , people who died in the Shankill

bomb, or Enniskillen. You have to wonder sometimes what the thoughts

are of somebody who lost one person, who lost a brother or a son, are

they supposed just to stand at their door and listen to all this and then

go in quietly and nurse their grief on their own. Some people do, a lot

of people do, but its not fair, its their family's story has been

embarrassment, any innocent victim out there that have suffered like we

have suffered, catholic and protestant, is an embarrassment they

have got their minds made up. will stick to it. They don't care.

Full. As long as they don't suffer, building will elevate some dead - at

from planet Mars and you landed and you spent a week listening to radio

and watching TV reading the newspapers you would be forgiven for

concluding that only about twenty people died during the troubles.

Thirteen of them on a particular day in Londonderry in the early

seventies and those were the victims of Bloody Sunday. And a few others

high profile cases. But three and a half thousand plus people died. Tens

of thousands have been affected with physical and mental health issues

and they are largely forgotten. it would be wrong to think that all

victims' families oppose the redevelopment at the Maze. Alan

McBride's wife was killed in 1993 in the Shankill Road bomb. Their

feelings have to be taken on board. But they have mixed feelings. There

are victims out there who undoubtedly would never go near the

Maze Prison. There are others who have said they would gladly go

there. I think we have to find an accommodation. But we'll all stories

be told? The first and deputy First Minister effectively have a veto

body says there is more autonomy than something. When I first met

with them, they talked about the independence of the development

corporation, it is an arm's-length body. The corporation owned the

land, so it is our sponsored ability to develop it. But against those

parameters that were set down by the first and Deputy first and were

enshrined at the beginning. It does not sound very independent? You have

to accept that when you are independent, it does not mean you

are completely independent of life. There will always be people you

report to. For some, it's inevitable that the first and Deputy First

Minister decided to have control over the development. I think it is

arguably the last thing you should ask to run this place. Out of the

nominees. On the other hand, being realistic, given what is happening

in Northern Ireland, I don't doubt that that was the first and only

idea that the powers that be had. Let's have them run this place,

let's have Sinn Fein and the DUP share this out, after all, they're

sharing everything else out, why shouldn't they share out the maze

Long Kesh. The Alex Kane, having control over

the project is key. He knows that for a core part of his audience,

they will see this as a shrine and them to what he says, they will see

it as a shrine. It almost like a sane, trust me, trust me with this.

I think the problem they both face is that they are key constituencies

that are disconnecting with them. It is remarkable they've managed to

keep the whole process stumbling along. Chris Brown believes that

providing a yes or no option or an on or off switch could threaten the

success of the site. Everyone realises how difficult these

histories can be to tell within an put in place to try and deal with

that. It does not generally involve giving a switch to a political

leadership from a party whether it is Unionist or Republican. Jeffrey

Donaldson was clear about invoking that yes or no option in a radio

interview. There would be someone they're saying this is where Bobby

that world eulogise their hunger strikers, whoever they may be, no

matter how notorious they are. We have listened to the victims, unlike

others. That is why the new peace Centre will not be in the listed

buildings. Jeffrey Donaldson said that the name of Bobby Sands will

not be even mention. That's so farcical that no one should believe

it. It would be like telling the history of Manchester United without

George Best. Sands and the hunger strikers will obviously feature. The

important thing is to ensure that other voices are there. Alan McBride

says we must respect each other's stories and that is something that

is not always apparent. If there is a debate around some issue, whether

its flags, whether it is the prison, they are very quickly go back into

their own camps and where they are coming from and so I sometimes

wonder is it all at face value, is there any depth to the sort of

pursuit for priests. But its not just families of victims who have

opposing views. Former prisoners from both sides do too. Anthony

McIntyre, aFormer Republican prisoner, now a critic of Sinn Fein,

is fearful of what he see's as the legacy of the hunger strikers Being

Sinn Fein halal Bobby Sands to be airbrushed out. I think it would

confirm the staters of Martin McGuinness, because he would have

meant a little more than Deputy dog. I mean have things gone so bad that

be Sands will be next described as some sort of mistake and criminal?

Former loyalist prisoner Billy Hutchison believes the prison will

become a shrine. I think it would be madness to open that site as some

sort of museum or anything else, because they are not going to stop

it being a shrine, no matter what agreement you get, it will happen.

don't mean to sound twee or you know cliche about this but the shrine

that I want to see to the guys who died there is the new agreed Ireland

that they died for basically. It's not some building outside Lisburn

you know that's not what they died for. Billy Hutchinson's is also

worried the role that Loyalist played in the prison will be totally

oveshadowed. Not only has the history being rewritten and we have

had this revisionism and we are going to have it in the is and you

know it's bad enough having to listen to people who tell me how

they won the peace and revised all of this. Like many of his

counterparts, he feels any attempt to ban the mention of the hunger

strikes will fail. How do you hold back on answering questions to

tourists or anybody else who knows about the Sands? -- Bobby Sands.

when any story about what happened at the maze is finally agreed for

tourists to hear, will anyone want to go? To find out, I hit the

tourist trail. I think it would be an interesting tour. What would be

the kind of thing you would want to see? Again, trying better to

understand what went on and why. be honest, I think most non-Irish

people with close roots in the United States know very little about

time... I think it will bring back animosity. I think I would go and

see it. I guess, insofar as we saw a jail when we were in Dublin and it

was fascinating so to be able to see that in Belfast, I guess the

conflict is a bit later and closer to now but it would be interesting.

I typically don't go to places of torture or incarceration. It makes

me feel uncomfortable and I just don't put myself through it. So what

27 years in the prison service. I want to see the maze levels. Let's

bury all of that. He had be in charge when Billy Wright was killed

by republicans inside the maze. murder of Billy Wright... I could

not have anticipate how it would affect my life. The loyalist

paramilitary footy may have colluded in the killing. The death threats

came thick and fast and the house moves followed. Then the climax of

that was retirement with poster Matic to stress disorder. It got the

point where could not cope any more. He says his time in the prison

service cost him his health and career. But his objection has

recently changed. What society has been doing is running away from it.

It may be the thing that makes us actually confront it, confront our

past and deal with it through this new centre and hopefully then,

provided a glimpse of what is possible here, but the shadow of the

past hangs heavy over the site. Just as it does over Northern Ireland.

There is no attempt made to deal with the legacy of the conflict. The

prisons were simply a part and parcel of that legacy and until you

have a process that in place to look at all of that, you are going to

have... You're going to have disagreement. If you forget the

past, history will repeat itself. We should get it sorted out now, before

my generation goes and the next generation comes along, because