24/10/2017 Spotlight

Hello and welcome to Spotlight Special,

where members of our studio audience put questions

to our panel of politicians on the week's big talking points.

DUP MLA Edwin Poots, a former Health Minister at Stormont.

Sinn Fein's John O'Dowd, a former Education Minister

Also her party's spokesperson on Brexit

is the SDLP's Claire Hanna, MLA for South Belfast.

Steve Aiken is an Ulster Unionist MLA for South Antrim.

And the Alliance Councillor, Nuala McAllister,

And, of course, you at home can take part.

Here's how you can get in touch with your thoughts

You can text your comments throughout the programme to 81771.

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And you can follow the programme on Twitter -

Let's get straight in. Our first question is from Adam Walker mad

administrator from Belfast. What will it take to make devolution

work? Well, we were told we had six days to save Stormont before

Westminster makes its actions. Can Stormont be salvaged? What will make

Stormont work? There are three stages to any negotiations. There is

negotiation itself, the agreement and then negotiation. Each of those

is as important as the other as they won't work without the others. We

are now seeking a rumination on the agreements. That will make Stormont

work. All other parties have signed up to it in various ways, the

process we have been involved in. We are signed up to the principle of

power-sharing and equality and a rights -based society. That is now

how we get an Executive that Robert is all areas -- that represents all

aspects of society. We are now down to the mentation. In eight months of

talks on and off, you haven't made any ground? There has been progress,

but there hasn't been sufficient progress or we would be back in the

Executive. At this stage, we are better to get it right than cobbling

together something which may fall apart in a number of weeks or

months. As a non-MLA, what is the view from outside the hill? The view

from outside and from the people of Belfast in particular, because as

Lord Mayor that is why represent and advocate for, they are far ahead of

the politicians. In my job, I get to represent a great city, and people

who want to see Belfast do fantastically well. The MLA 's will

say they want that as well. What we need. Want to work as a confident

government. We need people to act in respect of each other and in respect

of the people of Northern Ireland. They have to get on and compromise

and think of what is best for all of Northern Ireland. Compromise, a

dirty word? Absolutely not. Our party has not been setting red

lines, we are prepared to go to Stormont tomorrow morning and get on

with the is business that needs to be done. There are issues that

people want us to deal with. We would encourage parties to... Would

not change anything that was going on before? It had its difficulties.

But it is working better than having ten months of doing nothing in terms

of dealing with issues. As a consequence of that, there are

issues about health and education that are not being dealt with,

social housing, projects that should be starting in terms of

infrastructure that are not starting. This is ten months of

paralysis brought about by one party is not good for Northern Ireland,

not good for the people of Northern Ireland... Does not take two parties

to cause paralysis? All of the other parties would be willing

participants if we would get rid of these red lines. I will let you come

back on that in a moment. But is that how you see it? Where there is

consensus, the DUP have brought us at this point in terms of their

failure to grasp the two consensus among whom? One party is keeping us

here. It will take political will, and that is what we have heard. One

party Brodeur said, the DUP, and one party is keeping us here, the Sinn

Fein, is that what you mean? Not everybody has the same identity, and

that is a large part in recent years. People have not seen the

value of devolution but if the political will is there, we don't

know what the sticking points are because this ten months negotiation

has happened largely behind closed doors. The fact is, it has to work

because it is the only show in town. Direct rule will not solve any of

our problems and devolution and the institutions of the Good Friday

Agreement, the relationships here, nobody has come up with a better

idea. It has to be made to work. We have overcome bigger challenges with

people putting their own specific goals to one side and focusing on

the common goals. We have done more challenging things than this before

and we have do. Argue part of this consensus that it is the DUP's

fault? No. For the last ten months, we have been going around and around

again. How many times have people heard the same arguments from

politicians, back and forth, it is them and us, we need to do this and

that. In the last ten years, I will Northern Ireland government has

failed. What we are doing is not working. Sinn Fein and the DUP are

as bad as each other. They are not getting anything done. We need to

move on. We are 20 years on from the Good Friday Agreement and we need to

try something else. It is not sustainable. I have no faith

whatsoever that Sinn Fein have any interest in getting the Northern

Ireland government back up and running. The real issue here is we

need to move and try and do something else. That is why we as

the Ulster Unionist Party are pushing strongly and we need to

start thinking about voluntary coalition is because he can't keep

on doing this year in, year out. There is another solution. Please!

We would call on the British government to legislate in

Westminster for the reform of petitions of concern. That would

only come once there was an Assembly. No, because it is in their

entitlement to legislate. There would need to be a point in doing

that. Just to stick to the question. But this is relevant to the

question. It is not in my view at the moment. I will take it back to

John O'Dowd. I want you to come back on the point from both the Unionist

parties that you do not want to come back into the Northern Ireland

government. We see it as a way of amending and building relationships

on this island. It is an integral part of what Sinn Fein believes in.

One thing we haven't tried, and Steve says we have failed in this

last ten or 20 years was at the DUP and others have failed to increment

the Good Friday Agreement. We should now increment that -- implement

that. They are moving further and further away from the Good Friday

Agreement. Any notion of voluntary coalition will exclude Sinn Fein. It

is the largest nationalist party in this part of the Ireland. You will

never exclude that party again. Who said anything about excluding the

nationalist party? When did he say that? It is all about sidelining

Sinn Fein. We need to be talking about voluntary coalition, it needs

to have community support. What is wrong with that? We are the major...

How could you include a scratch -- how could you exclude us? You can't

pick and choose. If we don't have strand one, internal elation ships

in the institutions, and strand to with relationships between North and

South... Let's do the audience. I feel it is still going to fail.

Since the Good Friday Agreement, you have failed. There are schools

closing, people waiting for cancer treatment. What you should do is

strip the model back and look at the Scandinavian model of democracy,

which is viewed as the most successful model. You have failed

and I can't understand why as citizens we are so passive to this.

In any other part of the world, we would be demonstrating. People are

dying. Thank you, sir. People are waiting. We will come to all of

those topics. For union is, we have reached out to Sinn Fein and they

take, take, take. In terms of the Irish anguish, there is no reason

why it should stop us from going forward. You could sort all this

out. In terms of the Irish language, the Good Friday Agreement is clear,

I don't see why there is a hold-up. Sinn Fein can't talk about equality

because the DUP are no longer the majority in the Assembly. These

reasons are no excuse for holding up the Government. Thank you. We no

longer need the legacy parties to negotiate an hour -- on our behalf.

We can have normal democratic politics with normal democratic

hearties. For example, the Northern Ireland Conservatives.

LAUGHTER Didn't win in the yellow tie here.

-- the gentleman in the yellow tie. Everyone says that the DUP has no

red lines. In my opinion, the DUP has a red light, which is no Irish

land which. Give Northern Ireland and Irish land which act and let's

get this show on the road again. Let's get storm and running. This

guy is not going to fall and the bosses will not break down on the

roads if we have an Irish ten two act.

-- and Irish language act. Clearly you have no objection to the

language. Why not have an act and get us on a level footing with

Scotland and Wales. We are relaxed about all of these issues. You are

happy to have an Irish language act? Arlene Foster said they can start

the Assembly straight away and have a form of timescale with dealing

with issues and talks. We could have been dealing with health and cancer

and education, justice and all of these things. The SDLP rejected it.

Sinn Fein rejected it. Let's get on with the job. We will happily do

legislation but it will not be the Irish language act legislation that

has been set aside. That type of legislation would be unacceptable,

expensive and respiratory against many people in Northern Ireland. Why

do you insist on a stand-alone act? Why not have something along the

lines which the DUP are suggesting? I will not start negotiating on air.

Just elucidate the principle. I am seeking the same rights as every

other British citizens in this island. In Wales or Scotland, you

have equal marriage and Lang which rights. I am looking to have

citizens having equal rights as they do across the rest of the islands.

We have do make these institutions sustainable. We have do increment

the principals. -- implement. Interesting that we talk about the

Irish language act. We don't need one. The Irish language act, what do

you want to have in it? Mark Sheen said to me, let's get the act and we

will negotiate what happens in it afterwards. I said to him, what have

you got against the Scottish system, which is a rights -based approach?

We have to have an Irish language act and then negotiate what will be

in it. Nobody knows what they are talking about it behind-the-scenes.

No information has been released. How bad could it be question market

is putting yourself on the same footing as everyone else in the

United Kingdom. It isn't, because we don't know what is in it. To have

our places defined by road signs. Is that how we want Northern Ireland to

be seen going forward? What is wrong with recognising the Irish land

which as it is, what is wrong... ? Don't hide it away. He is talking

about the fact of the order that language is will appear on signs. I

you might like to change the size about? I don't mind what order they

come in. What he is talking about... Some people don't want them at all

in Irish. What they want to do is hide the language away. It is not

using public, but it is OK in Northern Ireland. That is not where

we are at as a society. There significant people using the

language on a daily basis. There are thousands of people being taught

through Irish and there are more every year. The Irish language

should be open, transparent and part of our society. It is a shame that

Sinn Fein have politicised a language. Where should Irish be in

the pantheon? I think we could have an Irish language act as a

stand-alone act but what Steve did say about Sinn Fein not saying what

is in the act until we get it, we actually discussed that on the floor

of the assembly. If we had an assembly. But for us in the Alliance

party it is not an Red Line issue because we don't think public

services should be dwarfed by the red line issues but we think that we

should set aside these until we get into the assembly but have

meaningful and proper respect for discussion and if we do get the

reform with the petition of concern we can easily solve, easily solve

the Irish language act, we can solve marriage equality if we just ensure

we have that respectful debate. The gentleman in the suit. I would like

to ask Edwin if he could explain in explicit terms what it is that the

DUP cannot agree to with Sinn Fein, since he's said that Sinn Fein

demands are the barriers to get the government back. The man in the

back. My folks are in Hong Kong and have Cantonese, Mandarin, are

English to match and outlives all the time. I speak Chinese and French

and English and I'm learning Irish. Doesn't make me less of a person

dart very good point! I don't it make you to negotiate an air but

let's get an idea of the stumbling blocks. One of the red lines with

the Irish language, when you looked at what was being proposed, totally

unacceptable. The issue about signage, non-Irish speakers, whether

it should be right based, and if it is writes space to bend court will

interpret that, cost imposed upon the government as a result and money

stripped away from health and education to be is spent on the

Irish language. It was figured out that it would be 2 million a year

for five years, past ?9 million for the infrastructure. The DUP said

that was fair apparently. The civil service have rubbished those figures

to us. A set of figures have been bought up, and in a ?10 billion

budget eyes and large but the civil service has rubbished them. -- isn't

large but have been rubbished. I certainly haven't heard any civil

servant rubbishing those figures. Will you both publish what are the

sticking points? Feel free to check our website. This is daily reading,

the SDLP website. It is something the SDLP have tried twice to bring

forward. So is cancer waiting times, a rights issue, so our kids making

sure not doing five exams. Those are all right this use and parties pick

issues they know will cleave a long community background, and sectarian

eyes. The point is we don't have do have one or the aria... Are you

prepared to go back on the Executive in the absence of the Irish line

would act? This is not now. Claire hasn't accepted this position. This

is the thing, one will pick an issue and the other will oblige and divide

them and they know that they can't do this... The SDLP for the last

election dart can I do say I don't understand how we can acquit Ulster

Scots to the Irish language. We had domination in this part of the

island and 50 years, not thing believe one thing was done about. I

do understand why it's an issue now. I wasn't born at the time so I can't

fully commented but... Ulster Scots was never, ever put to the

forefront, never legislated on, so why are Sinn Fein and many others

bringing up the Irish language, and Ulster Scots, and it is the typical

tit-for-tat we see in the country. The point is indirect rule... We

won't get an act. APPLAUSE What is your party position? Excuse

me! Lesson! I'm tragic yet the audience involved. -- I'm trying to

get them involved. I think we have wasted a ridiculous the money paying

you all to do nothing over the last ten months. We have been talking

about the budget. APPLAUSE The gentleman over there. Nuala was

right earlier talking about the position of concerns. I would like

to ask John if he would try to resolve those. Gentleman here in the

blue shirt. All I have heard from you is about the St Andrews

agreement will stop John. We haven't heard a single Irish language act.

Section 15, the St Andrews agreement... This is what it says.

I'll read it. Quickly! 20 A:D.. Strategies related to the Irish Lang

Jack and the Ulster Scots baggage. The Executive committee shall adapt

a strategy. We don't have time to read it out. At I shall make it

short. Two sections you keep talking about in the St Andrews act, two

sections, one from the Loris language act, to the Ulster Scots

act, so please stop taking the money that we pay you, get in the assembly

can get rid of your veto and then sits down and discuss the Irish

language act. And the Scots act. We must move on. Lots to get through

tonight. Another question from Banga. What should special status

really mean for Northern Ireland in the context of budget negotiations?

Jeremy, you might be jumping that gun. We don't have a indication of

special status yet. It is talked about certainly, something needs to

be done about the border so special status, John, something Sinn Fein is

keen on so what does that look like from your point of view? We had to

remain in the single European market, and the customs union. Also

in terms of giving the number of European citizens that live in this

part of the world they should also be represented in the European

Parliament and occasional presentation if we get the Executive

running, for the Executive ministers are presented in the various

elements of European structures accessed. Those are the broad thrust

of designated special status. I think it is possible. Basically

ignoring Brexit. I would like to. But you can't. You are right. It

will have a significant detrimental effect on the island economy. Report

after report points to that. We have set forward a proposal which we

believe recognises the Democratic wishes of the people here,

recognises the Good Friday Agreement, recognises our

circumstances and allows us to continue free trade and an economy

across the island of Ireland, and an economy and free movement of people

and trade... So free movement of people and goods and services

throughout the island of Ireland, and therefore into the United

Kingdom. The United Kingdom is an important trading partner with us,

no one wants to turn back on them. That's our proposal. Steve? I think

what we are looking at and what is negotiated in Brussels at the moment

is a tone of special status and what we need is 86% of the trade in goods

and actual staff between the Republic of Ireland and the United

Kingdom, all six 5 million euros of it, staying on this island. And what

we should do is move towards a new Anglo-Irish Treaty that makes it all

a free-trade zone on these islands, and it can be done. Because that

sort of innovative solution we look for, and in case anybody thinks it

is... Said the EU has to give you very special status. But they are

already talking about that. The key issue here is looking at it, you say

they are talking about it, they say they are talking about being

imaginative not just special unique status fully Republic of Ireland in

the free-trade. There are already discussions going on at the moment

in Brussels about how do is you are the 65 billion euros worth of trade

a year continuing, and the key is the agricultural business centre,

and because they were robbing of Ireland, 66 divide percent of the

work public Ireland business sector is in the United Kingdom and if

there are barriers put up and particularly tariffs and

regulations, but if they are barriers put up the entire Irish

agri- business sector is going to collapse and that is in nobody 's

interest. So behind the scenes there are discussions going about the all

Ireland steal. -- deal. That means no hard soft or wet borders. And

that is very doable. APPLAUSE I do agree, and we do believe in

alliance that there is a unique situation for Northern Ireland

because it is central to us, sharing, interdependence, and what

Brexit does is it creates more division, it creates more barriers

and so for my generation in particular, the millennial

generation, I see many in the audience tonight and we grew up in

the post-Good Friday agreement era, the world is more connected, and we

need to ensure that in Northern Ireland we do not go back, we don't

go backwards, meaning that not only for society, our economy, too. We

believe the UK should remain part of the customs union and the unique

situation should be applied to Northern Ireland, and all Ireland

opposed to the agri- food industry, 10% of our career and we need to

protect people across the border every day, or cross the border twice

a day to carry out their business. Lots some people are saying that

stopped before it is and this is what Michel Barnier has been saying

is we need gone grey proposals of how to that could be achieved and

keep everyone safe and secure. We can't get those concrete proposals

if we don't have an executive, if we don't have some sort of unity

speaking... Have you got proposals? We do, we have already put forward

many. We are meeting businesses every single day with community

organisations every single day to ask what they cannot do outside the

European Union and what we can do to ensure that Northern Ireland can.

Doesn't sound like you got concrete proposals. Let me bring in the

audience. I don't think we should shy away from words like special

status, lots of countries outside the EU has special arrangements with

Edgar Manso do countries inside stop -- and so do countries inside. There

needs to be a special status for people in the United Kingdom even if

there is no deal. It is up for negotiation to do that and it is not

go to be catastrophic for Northern Ireland. Edwin me you have set you a

hard against the special status. Why? In terms of the British GB

market, it takes over 60% of Northern Ireland good exports, and

therefore we won't have some sort of Seeboard, between them and the

single market, and so we look and focuses towards the UK market first

and foremost, our most important market. 90% of global growth

recognised by the European Union bree recognised outside the UK. I

want the UK to negotiate those deals with those other countries, to put

Northern Ireland in the frame where we can trade internationally. That

approach ignores the Irish border issue. How does that factor into

your thoughts? To Reza may brought forward bezels and Europe rejected

them. Those proposals were sensible but they were rejected by Europe.

Europe are seeking to be punitive in terms of how they deal with the

United Kingdom because they don't want people to leave it. They need

to respect the people of the United Kingdom. How does that affect the

border? They need to be bad to let the British and Irish government

have their border, they don't want a customs border, Europe needs... You

might not call it special status but it is. Europe needs to respect that.

We have brought forward sensible prizes and I urged them to look

again at them in Europe. I think those proposals were far from

sensible. Special status, I don't care what you call it if people have

set their face against that concept. I want maximum access to Europe as

much as we can get and yes we respect the vote to leave, although

leaving the single market and the customs union wasn't on the ballot

bed and many people were told that they wouldn't have to do that but

the fact, and the businessman who asked the question was assuming we

were getting special status because it is necessary and inevitable, and

there are special status is across Europe for others. It is basically

doubling down. We aren't worried? We will be fine? In a matter of course

we are worried, there are no zombie reposes du Dai here, we are

increasing the chance that we are going to crash out. It is vital that

we fight for it. We use the Good Friday Agreement, double down, we

have double citizenship, we can be European and non-European, and there

are lots of structures across the island, the likes of a border bank

and if we had misused the Good Friday Agreement we would see it as

a solution but it is absolutely vital and as has been said, and as

has been said in Europe do we need to ask for it, we can't let Brexit

wash over us. Arguing about it is not as important as Brexit.

Just one of your points there. The important thing is the transition

period being as long as possible. I think two years is too short. The

closer we get to five years, it will be better for everybody on these

islands to get the best deal possible. Europe at the moment, I

have been in Brussels fairly recently, the UK offered 20 billion,

and the EU wants 60 billion, and the result will be about 40 billion.

Once that prices paid, we will get the next stage. Jeremy, just to come

back, but ... My proposal is simply the goods that originate in the UK

as their country of origin should be Gareth free in the Republic only,

and the goods that originate in the Republic should be tariff free in

the UK. That is a very, very supporting to legislate. It doesn't

get over the practical difficulties which are not insubstantial about

having to track things, but it puts both sides on a reasonably good

level playing field and that is what we need. It would be easy to do.

Thank you. We will move on. The third question comes from a student

from Newcastle. There is a serious lack of provision

in our hospital. How will you fix our problems with waiting lists? We

had these figures showing the worst of every area for our targets,

including waiting lists. The Nuffield Trust said that things like

ageing population, high expectations and better technology and more

procedures are making us like further behind. 30,000 waiting for

admission to hospital, 10,000 per year. I can read out a long list of

statistics will stop our system is not fit for purpose, is it? The

system needs reform and I recognise that from many years ago. Many

parties who but up their hands to support it whenever it was brought

forward then started to object to it when it was being applied. As did

the trade unions and many people in the media. Every time we did

something, you were told it was going to be disastrous when all

other health professionals were saying it was what was needed. You

are right, we do need reform. When I was health minister back in 2013,

the waiting lists have almost doubled since that period of time. I

was getting hugely criticised for waiting lists them. That

demonstrates the problem. I would say that those problems started when

ever Sinn Fein decided that reform is more important than... There have

been reports for 20 years on reforming our Health Service. We

were bringing waiting lists down. As a consequence, waiting lists started

to go the wrong way and they have been going the wrong way ever since.

We have had no minister for months and waiting lists are completely out

of control. We need a Stormont back and we need to deal with these

issues. All of the parties need to come together on health and start

playing politics. I wanted to do something that was criticised for

it. We actually stood back and allowed their health blister to get

on with the job. They need to do their job. Close hospitals and

things like that? Listen to the health fashion was as to the best

way of doing it. Some hospitals might be better at providing chronic

care and others might be better at providing current care. The first

thing I would not do is handed over to the Tories under direct rule.

People run size what direct rule will be doing. If you see what

Jeremy Hunt is doing to the NHS in England, that is the last thing we

want. One statistic today, 64,000 people waiting in Northern Ireland

for a year for an outpatient appointment. That is a quarter of

the people on the waiting list, for more than a year. In England, only

1500 people on a waiting list for more than a year. They have 30 times

the population but only 2% of the numbers that we have on a waiting

list. The Tories attempted to be doing too badly in that sense.

That's fine if you want to hand it over. The fact is, having an

Executive will not be a silver bullet. Walking off from the job

without securing a budget led to those cuts that went in last month

that the role is to staff and worry people. The fact is we have an

unprecedented level of political consensus. In the Assembly in the

dying days, there was an agreement across the parties to take the

politics out of hell. It doesn't need to take health out of politics

altogether, it is not TB will not take -- it does not mean we will not

talk about it. Both of these parties promised last May 1 billion for

health over the next mandate. We were told in the Tory deal that

there is 250 million for transformation there. The plans are

there, we are told the money is there. We just need somebody to

drive it. Can you address the question of why we seem to be worse

at it in England? I don't have figures are covered for Scotland and

Wales. Scotland is slightly worse than us and Wales is a lot worse

than us. It depends on the regions. Regionally, it changes a lot. As an

MMA, I've been reading the report and going through it and talking to

a lot of health care professionals because I don't understand why

Northern Ireland outcomes are so bad. It comes down to one of a lot

of reasons. One of the things we need to do is to stop talking about

it, stop doing reports and get on with it. We need, through

transformation, to set up a delivery mechanism make it happen. Let's

explain what you mean by transformation. If you look at the

report, we need to move our health system and change how we do it.

Luckily enough, we're living longer. But we also have differing health

outcomes which means that what we are going to have to do increasingly

is that to preventative measures and look to early intervention. What we

will have to do is specialise in particular areas. Yes, it may be

difficult but it is not about shutting down buildings and

whatever, it is about key staff. Our staff are completely demoralised.

Our hospital workers are completely dim or lies. They have had their pay

capped. We need to get morale back in the Health Service and we also

need to get on with transformation. That means we need to make... We

have five health trusts. Wider we have 54 a population of 1.8 million?

Why not have another delivery organisation to start getting on

with transformation? It will take five or ten years. A lot of

politicians think there is a magic bullet out there, but there isn't.

It will take a decade to transport health but we need to get started.

The only way we will do that is to have a Northern Ireland Executive up

and running and do it now. Can you improve Health Service where Ralph

before transformation? I think you can. You can get the Executive to

talk about England and Wales and Scotland, that issue. In England,

there are more specialised and local care and they are devolved to local

government so a lot of bureaucracy is taken out of it. We need that

transformation, but it goes hand-in-hand with the Executive.

That does not mean we will not have any more waiting lists, decisions

still need to be made. What we do not have is that centre focused on

where the specialist focus should be. We're not health care

professionals, we do not know best, but the professionals have told us

what is best for people in Northern Ireland and we need to listen to

them. We also need to get off of the not in my back garden, I know that

there are protests about plans taking their whenever it came from

your party as well. We all have our own difficulties with that. We need

to agree that we will not go off into our silos and we will put what

is needed for health first. Go ahead, sir. I have a question for Mr

-- for Mr Edwin Poots. There is currently no health department up

and active in this country because there is no agreement with Sinn Fein

and in that affect you and your party partly responsible for the

current health situation. What is that if not playing politics with

health? The gentleman down the front again. Does the former health

minister not feel guilt regarding nurse's wages? John O'Dowd, we had

figures quoted last week, you need 80 million a year for for five

years, plus as formation. How will that happen? The figures you have

quoted I find interesting. The headline I saw was dying while

waiting for a nebulous. Four the main trusts in England, their Chief

Executive Sir said that they are heading back to 1999 waiting list

scales. What is the common denominator? The Health Service in

England is starved of funding and our Health Service is starved of

funding. I hear the course for a return to the Executive. I have seen

the budget for the next two years and it is frightening, absolutely

frightening. The Executive if it does return will have serious, hard,

difficult decisions to make. Our Health Service, we did promise ?200

million a year and we did deliver that when the Executive was running.

But that will be insufficient to deal with the pressures on our

Health Service and it comes back to this. The Tories are starving our

public services are of funding. And the Executive being back is a good

thing but it will not solve all of the problems. What will direct rule

due to help that? May I remind you, you fought the last election and

note Executive without a rights... Whitey want to bring everything

down... You are them they can manage the big picture? That's all Sinn

Fein have said. I am being honest with people. But are any of those

more important than handing over direct rule? England or Scotland or

Wales have language act and a Health Service was up they have equal

marriage and a Health Service would do not be bought up by this cry you

-- by those who want back into the Executive. The Executive will not be

able to resolve the issues. The last programme for government despite all

of the papers, we tried to negotiate. Why did you rebuff? Did

you think the legislation...? I would like to go back to the comedy

made. I am a paramedic and I people every day, like people lying on the

floor and dying for ten hours -- lying on the floor for ten hours and

dying because they cannot get an ambulance. You work involved in a

closure of a hospital. There was no investment in the Ambulance Service

for top the cuts still came to the Ambulance Service. Do you feel

guilty about any of that? You have got the wrong minister. You were

involved in it as well. I was the minister after that. In terms of the

Ambulance Service and all of these things, the DUP negotiated to get

250 million additional four health. 50 million for reform, more for

health. Could we not do with getting that money? We will only get that

money either through an Executive or through direct rule. We need to get

some movement on that issue and get down the 50 million set aside for

mental health, a massive issue in this country. John believes that

other issues are more reported than health. I have to say that I think

health trumps the issues that John is talking about. We will leave it

there. Thank you. Now to the next question. Penny. If

abortionists are such a controversial issue, why don't we

let the public debate it? It went to the Supreme Court in London today to

try whether the law in Northern Ireland was against human rights.

There are two sides do the argument but the Supreme Court today will

decide why did we needed to go to the court, why couldn't Northern

Ireland have its own view? It is going to the court, and first of all

can I actually just say good luck to Angie and Christie, the women at the

heart of the campaign, it's not easy for them to put themselves through

this but I have such admiration for people. We shipped Sarah away, the

woman with a Peters with a fatal if you. We have said that these women

are not first class citizens and don't have equal rights so what we

have in Northern Ireland parties who do not express comfort to these

people, parties who say that we are for a quality but we won't let our

members have freedom. We support equality when it comes to matters we

believe in but when it comes to the women's fundamental right to choose,

you can go to England and Wales because we don't want to deal with

you here and I don't think that this is a society a fundamental success.

It is ultimately wrong. Ball alliance it is a matter of

conscience, it is right way for a giraffe Socratic party. I believe as

a woman, personally, that the state should not interfere in the right of

the woman to choose and we should respect the woman to choose without

judgment and respect and help her here in Northern Ireland. APPLAUSE

Is abortion part of the rights agenda for Sinn Fein? We aren't

seeking the introduction of the 1967 act by any means but we do supports

searching for places where women's health is at risk, and we do respect

the Supreme Court. The assembly has thus far failed to protect women in

the circumstances with fatal abnormalities. We have criminalise

women for far too long in this regard. You will still do it if you

don't decriminalise abortion. You will still do it if you only provide

for it. All the parties will do it if we do not respect the women has a

right to choose. Canada to clarify, Sinn Fein used to say it was not in

favour of abortion. No, what I said was it is not in favour of the 1967

act. Or extending the act do Northern Ireland. That was the party

position if you years ago. I am not aware of that changing in recent

years that we have always been cleared in the 1967 act should not

be introduced here. It is right for women but as long as they have their

abortions in England. No, in no way are we saying that. Women here

should have the right to seek termination in circumstances of

fatal fatal abnormality and circumstances of rape and sexual

abuse and in circumstances where the woman's health is at risk, or the

woman's life is at risk which is already the case. That is where our

position. That isn't equality and bought a party that pays lip service

to equality it is shameful that you think that this is a quality, it is

not, it is a health care issue. The reason the referendum doesn't solve

it as they say in the south is is because it is complex, it is not a

yes or no answer because the legislation has to be decided and it

is a legislation with people's deeply held beliefs and people's

situation and people from our party we believe in life, we believe that

life needs protection. Speaking personally and I have said this

before we can't ignore and wish away the situation that people like Sarah

Ewart are in and to buy Neary put it down between women's rights and a

baby was right that is not a situation of right Les is right but

a woman trying to do what is best for her baby and personally, this is

a personal opinion, stigmatising her for that decision... Not a party

position. No, it is not complex or fundamentalist, or misogynist do

believe that there is a life there. It isn't convex or women who have to

travel to England and Wales every single day. I accept your views.

Bayard everybodyviews. We are forced to travel for abortion. If we were

going to legislate, that is not the party view. The 1967 act is far

outside of the parameters of most of the places in Europe. That is not

what they are only finding in the south. It is the question of

balancing views. What is your vision as opposed to your party but a

vision? My point is that I am moved by Sarah Ewart's case. But a year

and a half ago when the assembly decided to take soundings, get an

expert report from clinicians who were supporting women, people who

write legislation, looking at the human rights... You chose not to

bring in abortion. It did vote to commission that research was

shamefully that research hasn't been published. What is your position?

What should women be able to do in Northern Ireland, should they have a

abortion in case of fatal abnormality in Northern Ireland? In

cerebral occasionally yes. What about rape and incest? Your party

has tried to act framework for abortion. You approve of it in

Northern Ireland for rape and incest and fatal faecal abnormality. Yes.

Fatal faecal abnormality. Just to let you know, over 100,000

lives have been saved by not extending the abortion act to

Northern Ireland. I would like to ask John do you still believe in

cherishing all the children of the nation equally and I would also like

to say that it was the national Socialist German workers party that

promoted the idea of life unworthy of life. Why must the state be the

arbitrator in this disagreement? If you find the service than the

individual still has the right to avail of that service or not avail

of that service. Who protects the unborn child? Our party position is

a matter of conscience. I am abundantly clear on the sea. I

support abortion in the issues of the fatal foetal abnormality and

crime. And I tell you why. I'm sure some of you have been to places in

West Africa, Sudan, West Africa, where rape is used as a women leg

weapon. -- it is used as a weapon. If one of my children was violated,

one of my four daughters, a jihad to carry a child by rapist, I would

support her donation of that child. 100%. It isn't a straightforward

black and white issue. No matter what you may think will stop there

are many things are many different things and I tell you what if you

ever want to understand it, take yourself to Serbia or to Bosnia and

talk to the women there that have had this issue forced upon them. Why

not let the people of Northern Ireland decide? I would be happy to

do it for them to be honest. Amnesty International is a supporter of this

particular case and they came to the Justice committee of the assembly

and they were questioned on their stance on abortion and believed that

a termination of pregnancy should take place right up to the... Hold

on. The cases being brought by the human rights commission! Date

believed that a abortion could take place at to the point of birth. That

is what is inhuman. It is absolutely wrong... That is not what we are

talking about. That is not what we are talking about. It is murder one

day and not the next. That is an ugly comment and you should simply

not make comments like that. Six to the Supreme Court case. Fatal foetal

abnormality and sexual crime. It is a comment made by Amnesty

International representatives, I believe it is wrong and these

organisations want to use... Address the specific issue, fatal foetal

abnormality. I want them to use these hard cases to open the door.

The government of California signed off on what he believed was tough

legislation on abortion, his biggest regret, he said because it opens the

door to abortion. We will have judges making decisions on our

behalf because people and judicial cool Billy matter activism database

on changes to the recession. There are abortions on the basis taken

carefully in Northern Ireland. Some trusts choose to do it, some trusts

chose not to under the same term will stop we can do many more things

to protect the lives of the unborn. We are proudly people who stand for

unborn children because they have a right to life will stop who stands

for the woman? 8 million children have lost their lives in GB. No time

for any more. A big thank you to the panel for their contributions and

thank you for watching. A big thank you to our panel,

to our studio audience, and, of course,

to you at home for watching. You can continue the debate

online, using #SpotlightNI Our next Spotlight Special

will be on December 5th, so if you'd

like to apply to be in the audience, you can email the programme -

[email protected] - or phone the ticket line

on 0345 300 3080. From the Spotlight Special

team, a very good night. Strictly is inviting you

to a spooky special this week.