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Bombardier. | 0:00:05 | 0:00:06 | |
Northern Ireland's biggest
manufacturing employer. | 0:00:06 | 0:00:09 | |
But its future is in doubt. | 0:00:09 | 0:00:14 | |
Up to 4000 jobs at the Belfast
factory of the Canadian-owned | 0:00:14 | 0:00:16 | |
Bombardier plane maker are under
threat after a trade ruling | 0:00:16 | 0:00:19 | |
by the US Government. | 0:00:19 | 0:00:21 | |
US giant Boeing says Bombardier
is using government subsidies | 0:00:21 | 0:00:23 | |
to sell its C Series planes below
cost in America. | 0:00:23 | 0:00:28 | |
Essentially Bombardier
are offering new airplanes | 0:00:28 | 0:00:30 | |
at used airplane prices. | 0:00:30 | 0:00:31 | |
The US wants to hit
back with tariffs that | 0:00:31 | 0:00:33 | |
will hurt jobs here. | 0:00:33 | 0:00:36 | |
Could my job be on the line? | 0:00:36 | 0:00:38 | |
Yes, it could, like
anybody else's job. | 0:00:38 | 0:00:40 | |
The Government has promised
unrelenting action. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:42 | |
We will leave no stone unturned. | 0:00:42 | 0:00:45 | |
But have they ducked
a fight with Trump? | 0:00:45 | 0:00:48 | |
And have their backers in the DUP
been kept in the dark? | 0:00:48 | 0:00:53 | |
The UK Government argued that it's
not a legally proper party | 0:00:53 | 0:00:55 | |
to the dispute and it almost seemed
to be suggesting the dispute had | 0:00:55 | 0:00:58 | |
nothing to do with them. | 0:00:58 | 0:01:00 | |
Were you aware that that was
the legal argument they were taking? | 0:01:00 | 0:01:03 | |
No. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:04 | |
I'll be very interested, then. | 0:01:04 | 0:01:05 | |
If you've got that information then
please share it with me. | 0:01:05 | 0:01:08 | |
Everything hinges on a final
decision this Friday and I've been | 0:01:08 | 0:01:11 | |
to the US capital to delve deep
into the case. | 0:01:11 | 0:01:15 | |
Well, it is clear that
the UK Government has | 0:01:15 | 0:01:17 | |
not come in full force. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:20 | |
This is what the UK
Government submitted. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:21 | |
With 4,000 jobs at stake,
there's four pages of argument. | 0:01:21 | 0:01:25 | |
As they say here... | 0:01:25 | 0:01:27 | |
You do the math. | 0:01:27 | 0:01:30 | |
You said that evidence has
indeed been provided, | 0:01:30 | 0:01:32 | |
is that not misleading? | 0:01:32 | 0:01:37 | |
No, it was completely right. | 0:01:37 | 0:01:40 | |
Tonight on Spotlight... | 0:01:40 | 0:01:41 | |
If Trump's tariffs take hold,
how safe are jobs in Bombardier | 0:01:41 | 0:01:44 | |
and the Government? | 0:01:44 | 0:01:45 | |
I think legitimate questions will be
asked about their fitness | 0:01:45 | 0:01:47 | |
to remain in government. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
It's going to be only America First. | 0:01:49 | 0:01:55 | |
This global story begins
where its most dire | 0:02:08 | 0:02:09 | |
consequences could be felt
- in Belfast. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:17 | |
Thank you very much,
much appreciated, thank you, now. | 0:02:19 | 0:02:21 | |
Gaye Partridge is a Bombardier
worker and union rep. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:24 | |
She was in lobbying mode just before
Christmas at Belfast City Council - | 0:02:24 | 0:02:27 | |
seeking support for the 4000 jobs
that are on the line. | 0:02:27 | 0:02:31 | |
Support she believes could be vital. | 0:02:31 | 0:02:39 | |
And one Northern Ireland party,
the DUP, was enjoying | 0:02:39 | 0:02:42 | |
some global clout. | 0:02:42 | 0:02:44 | |
There was no deal agreed in Brussels
today after an intervention | 0:02:44 | 0:02:47 | |
by the Democratic Unionist Party. | 0:02:47 | 0:02:50 | |
We have even seen today
that the DUP can call a halt | 0:02:50 | 0:02:53 | |
to the Brexit negotiations,
so do you think the DUP can persuade | 0:02:53 | 0:02:56 | |
Theresa May to persuade Donald Trump
to get rid of these tariffs? | 0:02:56 | 0:02:59 | |
So we are hoping that their clout
will mean that, yes, | 0:02:59 | 0:03:01 | |
the DUP can deliver this for us. | 0:03:01 | 0:03:06 | |
Under political pressure,
in September even the Prime | 0:03:06 | 0:03:08 | |
Minister intervened. | 0:03:08 | 0:03:09 | |
I've spoken to President Trump more
than once on this issue. | 0:03:09 | 0:03:11 | |
I had a meeting with him
where I raised this issue. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:15 | |
The DUP urged the
Government to do more. | 0:03:15 | 0:03:17 | |
It's time, I think,
for the British Government | 0:03:17 | 0:03:18 | |
and the Canadian Government
to up their game. | 0:03:18 | 0:03:21 | |
Within days, Government support
was on display in Parliament. | 0:03:21 | 0:03:25 | |
We will leave no stone unturned. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:28 | |
We have had 24 calls or meetings
with the US administration, | 0:03:28 | 0:03:31 | |
12 with Boeing executives,
20 with the Government of Canada. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:36 | |
The DUP seemed reassured
that the game was, | 0:03:36 | 0:03:37 | |
indeed, being upped. | 0:03:37 | 0:03:40 | |
I as the representative
of East Belfast greatly appreciate | 0:03:40 | 0:03:43 | |
not only the work thus far but even
the presence today of | 0:03:43 | 0:03:46 | |
the Northern Ireland Secretary,
the Business Secretary, | 0:03:46 | 0:03:47 | |
the Business Minister,
the Defence Procurement Minister | 0:03:47 | 0:03:53 | |
and indeed the Foreign
Secretary, Mr Speaker, | 0:03:53 | 0:03:54 | |
who was present - showing | 0:03:54 | 0:03:56 | |
just how much support
there is politically for us. | 0:03:56 | 0:03:59 | |
Another political chamber and Gaye
Partridge seeks similar support. | 0:03:59 | 0:04:06 | |
We need your support to urgently
call on Boeing to drop this case. | 0:04:06 | 0:04:10 | |
If Bombardier were to pull
out of Belfast it would | 0:04:10 | 0:04:12 | |
have a serious impact
on the Northern Ireland economy. | 0:04:12 | 0:04:15 | |
I am therefore calling on you,
on this council, to support | 0:04:15 | 0:04:18 | |
the motion to support the skills
and jobs of Belfast. | 0:04:18 | 0:04:20 | |
Thank you very much. | 0:04:20 | 0:04:23 | |
Presentation over, she joined me
in the public gallery. | 0:04:24 | 0:04:28 | |
Did it go OK? | 0:04:28 | 0:04:30 | |
It's really nerve wracking
down there, so it is. | 0:04:30 | 0:04:36 | |
No need to worry,
the backing was unanimous. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:38 | |
This is one of those | 0:04:38 | 0:04:39 | |
occasions where we can
and we have united. | 0:04:39 | 0:04:42 | |
And, Lord Mayor, our party will also
be supporting this motion tonight. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
The entire number of members
here voted for the motion, | 0:04:46 | 0:04:48 | |
and so the motion is carried. | 0:04:48 | 0:04:56 | |
Thank you. Thank you very much. | 0:04:56 | 0:05:01 | |
The hopes of the workers now rest
in the hands of politicians. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:04 | |
It's over to the
Government now to act. | 0:05:04 | 0:05:12 | |
Economist Richard Ramsey believes
the huge size of Bombardier | 0:05:18 | 0:05:21 | |
in Northern Ireland means that if it
sank it could bring so much down | 0:05:21 | 0:05:24 | |
with it that everyone
would feel its effects. | 0:05:24 | 0:05:30 | |
It's one of our top exporters,
top R&D spenders, top employers | 0:05:30 | 0:05:33 | |
and you take Bombardier out
of the equation and that would blow | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
a hole in our overall performance. | 0:05:36 | 0:05:40 | |
Ultimately you're then going to see
less money going through | 0:05:40 | 0:05:42 | |
the Northern Ireland economy. | 0:05:42 | 0:05:45 | |
This small economy is suddenly
caught in a dispute involving one | 0:05:45 | 0:05:47 | |
the biggest companies in the world,
Boeing, and one of the biggest | 0:05:47 | 0:05:50 | |
forces in global politics. | 0:05:50 | 0:05:54 | |
We want products
made by our workers. | 0:05:54 | 0:05:56 | |
In our factories. | 0:05:56 | 0:05:57 | |
Stamped with those four magnificent
words: "Made in the USA." | 0:05:57 | 0:06:05 | |
We've seen that Northern Ireland has
become at the frontline of | 0:06:05 | 0:06:08 | |
Donald Trump's America First policy. | 0:06:08 | 0:06:11 | |
So how did this happen? | 0:06:11 | 0:06:14 | |
It's all to do with the UK
and Canadian government money used | 0:06:14 | 0:06:17 | |
in making the C Series plane
and its Belfast-built wings. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:25 | |
A heart-warming sight
for Northern Ireland - | 0:06:26 | 0:06:27 | |
a 100 tonne transport aircraft. | 0:06:27 | 0:06:31 | |
If the planes achieve the expected
demand, it means a lot | 0:06:31 | 0:06:33 | |
of employment in Ulster. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:35 | |
Big aviation projects always promise
plenty of good jobs, | 0:06:35 | 0:06:38 | |
but they often require plenty
of Government support. | 0:06:38 | 0:06:45 | |
Bombardier's C Series -
a 21st century airplane | 0:06:45 | 0:06:46 | |
designed for 21st airlines. | 0:06:46 | 0:06:52 | |
-- 21st-century airlines. | 0:06:52 | 0:06:54 | |
A brand new plane with the wings
designed and made in Belfast. | 0:06:54 | 0:06:58 | |
I want to congratulate
the workforce on everything | 0:06:58 | 0:06:59 | |
that they have achieved. | 0:06:59 | 0:07:02 | |
It has made it possible for us
to give the grants and help. | 0:07:02 | 0:07:08 | |
This help for the C Series
wings was £113 million | 0:07:08 | 0:07:12 | |
from the Government. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:13 | |
A repayable loan or a subsidy? | 0:07:13 | 0:07:19 | |
It's that Government money which is
now at the heart of this dispute. | 0:07:19 | 0:07:22 | |
And here's what that
money helped build. | 0:07:22 | 0:07:29 | |
Swiss, one of the few airlines
with C Series already in service. | 0:07:29 | 0:07:33 | |
So, the head height is good. | 0:07:33 | 0:07:35 | |
Even for someone tall like me. | 0:07:35 | 0:07:38 | |
Ladies and gentlemen... | 0:07:38 | 0:07:43 | |
Those Belfast-built wings help make
the plane more fuel efficient, | 0:07:43 | 0:07:45 | |
saving money for airlines. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:51 | |
This plane can fly transatlantic,
but it may never reach the US. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:54 | |
Unexpected turbulence
amid political climate change has | 0:07:54 | 0:07:57 | |
hit the C Series hard. | 0:07:57 | 0:08:02 | |
Call it Storm Trump. | 0:08:02 | 0:08:06 | |
We are going to enforce our trade
rules and stop foreign cheating. | 0:08:06 | 0:08:14 | |
Tremendous cheating. | 0:08:14 | 0:08:16 | |
Tremendous cheating. | 0:08:16 | 0:08:18 | |
But who's cheating on whom? | 0:08:18 | 0:08:22 | |
Labour fears Belfast workers have
been sacrificed by a Government | 0:08:22 | 0:08:25 | |
focused on Brexit and
cosying up to Trump? | 0:08:25 | 0:08:29 | |
Are they afraid of being exposed
in Northern Ireland | 0:08:29 | 0:08:32 | |
for their failure to protect jobs
or are they so keen to score | 0:08:32 | 0:08:35 | |
a sweetheart trade deal
with the US that they simply | 0:08:35 | 0:08:37 | |
want to wash their
hands of this matter? | 0:08:37 | 0:08:41 | |
It's a charge the Government
strongly rejects. | 0:08:41 | 0:08:44 | |
But Labour has demanded evidence. | 0:08:44 | 0:08:48 | |
In this key exchange,
the Business Secretary was asked | 0:08:48 | 0:08:50 | |
in October if he had engaged
with the US authorities | 0:08:50 | 0:08:52 | |
who will ultimately decide the case
- the Trade Commission. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:58 | |
What attempts have the Government
made thus far to provide evidence | 0:08:58 | 0:09:01 | |
to the US independent Trade
Commission? | 0:09:01 | 0:09:06 | |
In terms of submitting evidence
to the Trade Commission | 0:09:06 | 0:09:08 | |
in the United States,
this has indeed been provided. | 0:09:08 | 0:09:13 | |
I wanted to find out what evidence
was submitted because it's the US | 0:09:13 | 0:09:16 | |
Trade Commission that decides
on Friday if sales of | 0:09:16 | 0:09:20 | |
the C Series harmed Boeing. | 0:09:20 | 0:09:22 | |
If there's no harm, the case ends. | 0:09:22 | 0:09:26 | |
So how the UK Government
argues its case is vital | 0:09:26 | 0:09:28 | |
for workers in Belfast. | 0:09:28 | 0:09:31 | |
Ian Mullan works in the warehouse
and helps load the massive | 0:09:40 | 0:09:42 | |
C Series wings for delivery. | 0:09:42 | 0:09:46 | |
It's a very good job to have,
and I am classed as unskilled | 0:09:46 | 0:09:49 | |
and I have managed to get a mortgage
and a car and everything out of it | 0:09:49 | 0:09:52 | |
and support a family with it. | 0:09:52 | 0:09:54 | |
My dad worked here with me,
I have uncles that work | 0:09:54 | 0:09:57 | |
here and have retired
from here as well. | 0:09:57 | 0:09:58 | |
Thousands more jobs
outside of Bombardier also | 0:09:58 | 0:10:00 | |
benefit from its work. | 0:10:00 | 0:10:01 | |
Here is Marlborough Engineering,
that's a company that is based just | 0:10:01 | 0:10:04 | |
round the corner from here,
and just behind us on another | 0:10:04 | 0:10:06 | |
staging there's a sign
for Barbour Engineering, | 0:10:06 | 0:10:08 | |
based in Bangor. | 0:10:08 | 0:10:09 | |
It's jobs here versus
jobs in the US. | 0:10:09 | 0:10:12 | |
The argument from Boeing
is that this place was built | 0:10:12 | 0:10:15 | |
with the help of public money
with handouts, a subsidy | 0:10:15 | 0:10:17 | |
and therefore it's not fair. | 0:10:17 | 0:10:21 | |
Well, I think they're wrong,
because the UK Government did | 0:10:21 | 0:10:23 | |
give Bombardier money
to build this factory. | 0:10:23 | 0:10:26 | |
However, it was not a given,
it was a loan and we have | 0:10:26 | 0:10:29 | |
to repay the money. | 0:10:29 | 0:10:31 | |
So why do the US authorities
think the loan is unfair? | 0:10:31 | 0:10:34 | |
I went to Washington to find out,
and see what the UK | 0:10:34 | 0:10:42 | |
Government had been doing
here for Bombardier workers. | 0:10:46 | 0:10:53 | |
It's not the first time the US has
expressed concern about that | 0:10:53 | 0:10:56 | |
Government money for Bombardier. | 0:10:56 | 0:10:59 | |
US trade representatives threatened
action nearly a decade ago | 0:10:59 | 0:11:01 | |
when it was first revealed,
but nothing happened. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:05 | |
Until in 2016 Bombardier won
a major order from a US | 0:11:05 | 0:11:08 | |
airline for C Series planes. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:15 | |
Now they were entering American
airspace with help from foreign | 0:11:15 | 0:11:18 | |
governments, and US rival
Boeing wasn't happy. | 0:11:18 | 0:11:22 | |
It compiled a petition
alleging unfair competition. | 0:11:22 | 0:11:26 | |
And fired it straight into the arms
of the Trump administration. | 0:11:26 | 0:11:34 | |
It landed first at the
Department of Commerce. | 0:11:36 | 0:11:39 | |
Their job is to promote
the US economy. | 0:11:39 | 0:11:42 | |
And this time the authorities
sprang into action. | 0:11:42 | 0:11:50 | |
Remember that repayable loan from
the UK Government to Bombardier? | 0:11:50 | 0:11:52 | |
What if it's not,
in fact, repayable? | 0:11:52 | 0:11:55 | |
Buried within around 7000 pages
of documents the UK Government | 0:11:55 | 0:12:00 | |
submitted to the Commerce Department
I've discovered a key | 0:12:00 | 0:12:03 | |
fact about that loan. | 0:12:03 | 0:12:05 | |
And it may hold the secret of why
the Commerce Department believes | 0:12:05 | 0:12:08 | |
the Government money to Bombardier
was unfair to Boeing. | 0:12:08 | 0:12:13 | |
And what this document reveals
is that if something goes wrong | 0:12:13 | 0:12:18 | |
beyond Bombardier's control it's
the Government, not Bombardier, | 0:12:18 | 0:12:19 | |
that is on the hook for the lot. | 0:12:19 | 0:12:22 | |
In that case, the repayable
loan won't be repaid. | 0:12:22 | 0:12:30 | |
This is the seal of
the International Trade Commission. | 0:12:33 | 0:12:36 | |
It really does stand for that notion
of equality, justice, | 0:12:36 | 0:12:40 | |
fairness. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:41 | |
Professor Jennifer Hillman
is a former judge at | 0:12:41 | 0:12:43 | |
the Trade Commission. | 0:12:43 | 0:12:44 | |
She feels what I've uncovered
is key to the case. | 0:12:44 | 0:12:47 | |
In US eyes the loan isn't
commercial - it's a handout. | 0:12:47 | 0:12:51 | |
If the repayable launch
investment isn't ultimately | 0:12:51 | 0:12:52 | |
repayable, is that relevant? | 0:12:52 | 0:12:55 | |
Yes, it is. | 0:12:55 | 0:12:57 | |
By guaranteeing in the end
of the day that if all else fails | 0:12:57 | 0:13:00 | |
the UK Government will step in,
the Government is | 0:13:00 | 0:13:02 | |
assuming a lot of risk. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:04 | |
The fact that the Government
is taking on that risk turns it | 0:13:04 | 0:13:07 | |
from being a commercially viable
loan into a subsidy. | 0:13:07 | 0:13:12 | |
So that's why the Commerce
Department wants tariffs | 0:13:12 | 0:13:14 | |
of nearly 300% to remain. | 0:13:14 | 0:13:19 | |
But the final decision has now
shifted to the ITC and another UK | 0:13:19 | 0:13:22 | |
Government tactic won't help. | 0:13:22 | 0:13:24 | |
Can Theresa May phoning
Donald Trump stop this case? | 0:13:24 | 0:13:28 | |
No. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:29 | |
It is decided by an independent
agency, the International Trade | 0:13:29 | 0:13:32 | |
Commission, and there is literally
nothing that Donald Trump | 0:13:32 | 0:13:34 | |
can do to stop it. | 0:13:34 | 0:13:37 | |
But if a US President can't stop it,
could a European giant? | 0:13:37 | 0:13:44 | |
Bombardier's chief exec celebrated
as Airbus agreed to take a majority | 0:13:44 | 0:13:49 | |
stake in the troubled
C Series jet project. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:52 | |
Airbus plans to partner
on the C Series and avoid tariffs | 0:13:52 | 0:13:55 | |
by assembling the planes in America
in two years' time. | 0:13:55 | 0:13:57 | |
But the ITC is dealing
with the here and now, | 0:13:57 | 0:13:59 | |
it decides if Boeing was harmed. | 0:13:59 | 0:14:04 | |
That's the decision that is pending
right now and in front of the ITC. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:12 | |
They will make that determination. | 0:14:12 | 0:14:15 | |
Regardless of the Airbus deal? | 0:14:15 | 0:14:16 | |
Regardless of the Airbus deal. | 0:14:16 | 0:14:18 | |
So it's bad news for
Bombardier on three fronts - | 0:14:18 | 0:14:20 | |
the Airbus deal may not get
round the tariffs, the political | 0:14:20 | 0:14:23 | |
lobbying of Trump and others
can't stop the case | 0:14:23 | 0:14:25 | |
and because the repayable loan isn't
necessarily repayable it gives | 0:14:25 | 0:14:27 | |
Boeing a strong argument
for imposing tariffs. | 0:14:27 | 0:14:32 | |
The painful irony is
that the money that helped | 0:14:32 | 0:14:34 | |
bring those C Series jobs | 0:14:34 | 0:14:35 | |
to Belfast could now spell disaster
for the entire operation. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:43 | |
At the final ITC hearing in December
the UK Government stood accused | 0:14:48 | 0:14:52 | |
of promoting unfair competition. | 0:14:52 | 0:14:57 | |
So everything now hinges on the ITC
and what they decide. | 0:14:57 | 0:14:59 | |
They're holding a public hearing,
and we're off there now. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:05 | |
The room is packed to capacity. | 0:15:06 | 0:15:07 | |
Trade disputes don't get
any bigger than this. | 0:15:07 | 0:15:13 | |
It doesn't work when foreign
governments tilt the field | 0:15:13 | 0:15:15 | |
for the benefit of the C series. | 0:15:15 | 0:15:17 | |
A plane that wouldn't
even exist were it not | 0:15:17 | 0:15:19 | |
for government subsidies. | 0:15:19 | 0:15:22 | |
The Boeing boss highlights the tough
action Canada has taken directly | 0:15:22 | 0:15:25 | |
in reponse to the case. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:27 | |
Last week, Canada
cancelled a $5 billion | 0:15:27 | 0:15:31 | |
order for Boeing fighter jets just
because we brought this case. | 0:15:31 | 0:15:34 | |
But, unlike Canada, the UK has not
taken tough action against Boeing | 0:15:34 | 0:15:38 | |
and hasn't cancelled contracts. | 0:15:38 | 0:15:41 | |
The UK ambassador, Sir Kim Darroch,
instead argues that | 0:15:41 | 0:15:44 | |
Boeing, not Bombardier,
is the one receiving handouts. | 0:15:44 | 0:15:50 | |
Boeing argue that they are attacking
bad subsidies including a UK | 0:15:50 | 0:15:55 | |
government loan for the development
of wings in Northern Ireland. | 0:15:55 | 0:15:59 | |
Yet Boeing itself enjoys
billions of dollars of US | 0:15:59 | 0:16:01 | |
Government subsidies. | 0:16:01 | 0:16:03 | |
But, fair or not, US subsidies
aren't under scrutiny. | 0:16:03 | 0:16:11 | |
In the US, most legal papers
are publicly available, | 0:16:15 | 0:16:20 | |
So, I want to take a deeper dive
and find out exactly what the UK | 0:16:20 | 0:16:24 | |
government has done. | 0:16:24 | 0:16:32 | |
The key submissions to the ITC
are lengthy and detailed, | 0:16:33 | 0:16:36 | |
well - most of them. | 0:16:36 | 0:16:37 | |
This is Bombardier's latest
submission to the ITC - | 0:16:37 | 0:16:39 | |
its pre-hearing brief. | 0:16:39 | 0:16:40 | |
It's almost 800 pages,
and it's quite heavy. | 0:16:40 | 0:16:43 | |
This is the Canadian government's -
more than 170 pages here. | 0:16:43 | 0:16:48 | |
And this is what the UK
Government submitted. | 0:16:48 | 0:16:53 | |
With 4,000 jobs at stake,
there's four pages of argument. | 0:16:53 | 0:16:56 | |
As they say here, you do the math. | 0:16:56 | 0:17:02 | |
Unlike at the ITC, there were 7000
pages submitted to the Commerce | 0:17:02 | 0:17:05 | |
Department, where the UK lost
the argument against tariffs. | 0:17:05 | 0:17:09 | |
In documents there, I found
bizarre excuses from UK | 0:17:09 | 0:17:11 | |
officials for late replies. | 0:17:11 | 0:17:12 | |
Like this one. | 0:17:12 | 0:17:15 | |
It says that the Department
for International Trade | 0:17:15 | 0:17:18 | |
is a new department moving
into a new building and that it | 0:17:18 | 0:17:21 | |
hasn't unpacked all of its files. | 0:17:21 | 0:17:24 | |
A month later, the UK Government's
legal team writes again | 0:17:24 | 0:17:26 | |
asking for more time. | 0:17:26 | 0:17:29 | |
This time, the lawyers tell the US
Commerce Department that they can't | 0:17:29 | 0:17:34 | |
meet the deadline because
Northern Ireland civil | 0:17:34 | 0:17:37 | |
servants are on holiday
because of the Twelfth Fortnight. | 0:17:37 | 0:17:40 | |
And there's a strange phrase
that keeps cropping up. | 0:17:40 | 0:17:45 | |
It first appears in this letter
of the 26th of May but it's | 0:17:45 | 0:17:49 | |
in almost every piece of UK
Government correspondence. | 0:17:49 | 0:17:51 | |
"The British government does not
consider itself a legally proper | 0:17:51 | 0:17:53 | |
party to this matter." | 0:17:53 | 0:17:57 | |
Time and again, in black and white,
the Government seems to be saying | 0:17:57 | 0:18:00 | |
this case is nothing
to do with them. | 0:18:00 | 0:18:08 | |
So, what does former ITC judge
Jennifer Hillman make of this? | 0:18:12 | 0:18:14 | |
Is it unfair to compare 175 pages
from the Government of Canada | 0:18:14 | 0:18:17 | |
with four pages from
the UK Government? | 0:18:17 | 0:18:19 | |
Well, it is clear that
the UK Government has | 0:18:19 | 0:18:21 | |
not come in full force,
certainly not at the | 0:18:21 | 0:18:24 | |
International Trade Commission? | 0:18:24 | 0:18:26 | |
Is it good enough to state
we are not part of this? | 0:18:26 | 0:18:29 | |
No. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:30 | |
Any questions that you leave
unanswered, the presumption will be | 0:18:30 | 0:18:34 | |
that the reason you didn't answer
them is it is bad news. | 0:18:34 | 0:18:37 | |
And what about those excuses
for late responses offered | 0:18:37 | 0:18:40 | |
by the UK, the unopened boxes
- the 12th Fortnight? | 0:18:40 | 0:18:42 | |
All of the deadlines are literally
carved into the statute, | 0:18:42 | 0:18:48 | |
so the deadlines are very real,
they are absolutely set by the law | 0:18:48 | 0:18:51 | |
and are simply never missed. | 0:18:51 | 0:18:59 | |
Home time for workers in Washington. | 0:19:00 | 0:19:07 | |
Can the Bombardier workers dare
to hope their dreams won't end here? | 0:19:07 | 0:19:10 | |
Could the ITC still vote no
to tariffs and save the day? | 0:19:10 | 0:19:13 | |
Jennifer Hillman says they could. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:17 | |
The ITC at this point is absolutely
critical and there is a good chance | 0:19:17 | 0:19:20 | |
that the ITC could vote no. | 0:19:20 | 0:19:24 | |
Historically, 60%
of the cases go no. | 0:19:24 | 0:19:26 | |
In which case, the case stops. | 0:19:26 | 0:19:34 | |
Before I left Washington,
I called Gaye. | 0:19:37 | 0:19:40 | |
Hello, Jim. | 0:19:40 | 0:19:42 | |
Hi, Gaye. | 0:19:42 | 0:19:43 | |
How are you? | 0:19:43 | 0:19:44 | |
I'm very well. | 0:19:44 | 0:19:45 | |
Thank you. | 0:19:45 | 0:19:47 | |
To reveal that the repayable loan
was being treated as a subsidy. | 0:19:47 | 0:19:52 | |
Well, what are your thoughts? | 0:19:52 | 0:19:54 | |
That is a surprise. | 0:19:54 | 0:19:55 | |
Oh, that is the first
time I have heard that. | 0:19:55 | 0:19:58 | |
But i did reasure her that there
was still hope with the ITC. | 0:19:58 | 0:20:06 | |
Bombardier is based in East Belfast
MP Gavin Robinson's constituency. | 0:20:09 | 0:20:15 | |
His vote at Westminster,
and that of his DUP colleagues, | 0:20:15 | 0:20:18 | |
keeps the Government in power. | 0:20:18 | 0:20:19 | |
I wanted to know if he
was fully aware of how | 0:20:19 | 0:20:22 | |
the Government had behaved. | 0:20:22 | 0:20:23 | |
It turned out, he wasn't. | 0:20:23 | 0:20:27 | |
You did at the time back
in October call on both | 0:20:27 | 0:20:30 | |
the Canadians and the UK
Government to up their game. | 0:20:30 | 0:20:33 | |
I have some documents
here I can show you. | 0:20:33 | 0:20:36 | |
This is the Canadian submission to
the International Trade Commission. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:38 | |
Have you seen that at all? | 0:20:38 | 0:20:41 | |
Literally, you can feel the weight
perhaps of their argument there. | 0:20:41 | 0:20:43 | |
That's what the Canadian
Government submitted. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:46 | |
But let me just show you what the UK
Government submitted to the ITC. | 0:20:46 | 0:20:51 | |
Do you notice a difference there? | 0:20:51 | 0:20:55 | |
Well, there's a clear difference
in volume but this is a dispute | 0:20:55 | 0:20:58 | |
between a Canadian company
and a United States company. | 0:20:58 | 0:21:01 | |
But are you happy that,
for 4 000 jobs, the UK | 0:21:01 | 0:21:05 | |
Government's submission
to the ITC was effectively | 0:21:05 | 0:21:07 | |
four pages of argument? | 0:21:07 | 0:21:09 | |
Well, I don't think that's a fair
way to summarise it. | 0:21:09 | 0:21:11 | |
This is a Canadian company. | 0:21:11 | 0:21:15 | |
This is a Canadian aircraft. | 0:21:15 | 0:21:18 | |
So, leave it up to Canada
to sort this out? | 0:21:18 | 0:21:20 | |
No. | 0:21:20 | 0:21:21 | |
You're supposed to have clout
with the Government. | 0:21:21 | 0:21:23 | |
What have they done in this case
to protect those jobs? | 0:21:23 | 0:21:30 | |
I think, Jim, you are in danger
of trivialising what has been | 0:21:30 | 0:21:33 | |
going on over the last
number of months. | 0:21:33 | 0:21:35 | |
No, I'm not the... | 0:21:35 | 0:21:38 | |
I didn't submit the four pages that
government have submitted, | 0:21:38 | 0:21:40 | |
four pages of argument. | 0:21:40 | 0:21:48 | |
So, the question is who is
trivialising this? | 0:21:55 | 0:21:57 | |
Who has treated it seriously
and submittedm you knowm | 0:21:57 | 0:21:59 | |
170-plus pages of argument,
or who has | 0:21:59 | 0:22:01 | |
perhaps not treated it
seriously and submitted | 0:22:01 | 0:22:02 | |
four pages of argument? | 0:22:02 | 0:22:03 | |
But I think, to focus
on that submission | 0:22:03 | 0:22:05 | |
is to do a huge disservice. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:07 | |
Gavin Robinson is also
a qualified barrister. | 0:22:07 | 0:22:08 | |
I thought maybe the Government
might have briefed him | 0:22:08 | 0:22:10 | |
on their legal strategy. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:11 | |
They hadn't. | 0:22:11 | 0:22:13 | |
We interviewed an expert in
the United States, who was a judge | 0:22:13 | 0:22:15 | |
at the ITC for nine years,
and her view having looked at the UK | 0:22:15 | 0:22:19 | |
submissions was that it
hadn't come in full force. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:21 | |
In fact, the UK Government argued
that it's not legally proper party | 0:22:21 | 0:22:26 | |
to the dispute and it almost seemed
to be suggesting the dispute had | 0:22:26 | 0:22:28 | |
nothing to do with them. | 0:22:28 | 0:22:29 | |
Were you aware that that was
the legal argument they were taking? | 0:22:29 | 0:22:35 | |
No. | 0:22:35 | 0:22:36 | |
I'll be very interested then
if you've got that information | 0:22:36 | 0:22:38 | |
then please share it with me. | 0:22:38 | 0:22:40 | |
From my perspective,
all of this very useful for me | 0:22:40 | 0:22:42 | |
to take back and to make sure that
what we do | 0:22:42 | 0:22:45 | |
and what we engage in on behalf
of Bombardier in making sure | 0:22:45 | 0:22:48 | |
that we can stand up
for the company's successfully | 0:22:48 | 0:22:50 | |
is to have this sort of information. | 0:22:50 | 0:22:51 | |
So, belatedly. | 0:22:51 | 0:22:53 | |
It is publicly available,
if you know where to find it. | 0:22:53 | 0:22:55 | |
Belatedly. | 0:22:55 | 0:22:56 | |
Thank you for sharing it with me. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:58 | |
The Government's case to the ITC
doesn't appear convincing - | 0:22:58 | 0:23:00 | |
even to themselves. | 0:23:00 | 0:23:01 | |
Earlier this month, the Aerospace
Minister said he expected | 0:23:01 | 0:23:04 | |
to lose at the ITC. | 0:23:04 | 0:23:07 | |
My expectation is that things
will not be very different | 0:23:07 | 0:23:09 | |
from what's already been determined. | 0:23:09 | 0:23:12 | |
So, the Government has put together
a case it expects to lose. | 0:23:12 | 0:23:16 | |
And, it appears to have kept its DUP
partners in the dark. | 0:23:16 | 0:23:19 | |
That's bad enough. | 0:23:19 | 0:23:21 | |
But has parliament also been misled? | 0:23:21 | 0:23:23 | |
Remember this exchange. | 0:23:23 | 0:23:26 | |
Labour asks what evidence
the Governement has submitted. | 0:23:26 | 0:23:31 | |
What attempts have the Government
made thus far to provide evidence | 0:23:31 | 0:23:34 | |
to the US independent
Trade Commission? | 0:23:34 | 0:23:36 | |
In terms of submitting evidence
to the Trade Commission | 0:23:36 | 0:23:39 | |
in the United States,
this has indeed been provided. | 0:23:39 | 0:23:46 | |
But evidence from the Government,
all four pages of it, | 0:23:46 | 0:23:48 | |
wasn't submitted to the Trade
Commission until December. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:54 | |
Two months after the Minister
appeared to tell MPs | 0:23:54 | 0:23:56 | |
that it had been done. | 0:23:56 | 0:23:59 | |
Misleading the House can
be a sackable offence. | 0:23:59 | 0:24:02 | |
Labour's Owen Smith believes
the Prime Minister should take | 0:24:02 | 0:24:04 | |
action if Greg Clark
can't explain himself. | 0:24:04 | 0:24:10 | |
I think Mr Clark will have been seen
to have misled the House at that | 0:24:10 | 0:24:14 | |
juncture and I think Theresa May
will need to address that | 0:24:14 | 0:24:17 | |
So, how does the minister
explain himself? | 0:24:17 | 0:24:19 | |
I'm off to find out. | 0:24:19 | 0:24:22 | |
Why did you say that
you had submitted evidence | 0:24:22 | 0:24:24 | |
to the Trade Commission
when you hadn't? | 0:24:24 | 0:24:27 | |
The question in the House of Commons
was whether the ITC - | 0:24:27 | 0:24:32 | |
that's the Trade Commission -
had received evidence. | 0:24:32 | 0:24:39 | |
That was submitted to
the ITC, I think in May, | 0:24:39 | 0:24:41 | |
By whom? | 0:24:41 | 0:24:43 | |
That was submitted by
Bombardier during the periods | 0:24:43 | 0:24:46 | |
that it was required to be. | 0:24:46 | 0:24:49 | |
But the question to you was
what had the Government | 0:24:49 | 0:24:57 | |
submitted to the ITC
and you said that on | 0:25:11 | 0:25:13 | |
submission the evidence had | 0:25:13 | 0:25:14 | |
been provided to the ITC. | 0:25:14 | 0:25:16 | |
Why would your Shadow Minister
question you as to | 0:25:16 | 0:25:18 | |
what Bombardier had submitted? | 0:25:18 | 0:25:19 | |
They were surely asking
you what the Government had | 0:25:19 | 0:25:21 | |
submitted and you said that evidence
has indeed been provided, | 0:25:21 | 0:25:23 | |
is that not misleading? | 0:25:23 | 0:25:24 | |
No. | 0:25:24 | 0:25:25 | |
It was completely right. | 0:25:25 | 0:25:26 | |
It had been provided
through all of this. | 0:25:26 | 0:25:28 | |
But if the minister doesn't believe
he misled parliament. | 0:25:28 | 0:25:31 | |
Does he believe the four-page ITC
submission is sufficient? | 0:25:31 | 0:25:33 | |
When you did submit
evidence as a government, | 0:25:33 | 0:25:35 | |
it was four pages long. | 0:25:35 | 0:25:36 | |
Did a lot of work go into that? | 0:25:36 | 0:25:38 | |
The evidence that we
submitted was actually | 0:25:38 | 0:25:40 | |
over 7,000 pages. | 0:25:40 | 0:25:41 | |
Not to the ITC. | 0:25:41 | 0:25:42 | |
Those 7,000 pages went
to the Commerce Department, | 0:25:42 | 0:25:45 | |
where the Government first tried
the argument that they | 0:25:45 | 0:25:47 | |
weren't a legal party. | 0:25:47 | 0:25:50 | |
There are no planes that
are exported from Belfast, | 0:25:50 | 0:25:52 | |
to the United States. | 0:25:52 | 0:25:54 | |
That is clear. | 0:25:54 | 0:25:55 | |
So, the trade dispute is between
Canada and the United States. | 0:25:55 | 0:26:01 | |
But the UK argument failed
to persuade the Commerce | 0:26:01 | 0:26:04 | |
Department against tariffs. | 0:26:04 | 0:26:06 | |
So, will it also
lose out at the ITC? | 0:26:06 | 0:26:09 | |
We interviewed a former ITC judge
and they said it was clear | 0:26:09 | 0:26:12 | |
that the UK Government hadn't come
in full force at the ITC. | 0:26:12 | 0:26:14 | |
Quite the reverse. | 0:26:14 | 0:26:16 | |
Right from the outset,
we have worked vigorously. | 0:26:16 | 0:26:18 | |
Personally, I have never
seen such a high level - | 0:26:18 | 0:26:20 | |
consistent level - of engagement. | 0:26:20 | 0:26:23 | |
I would have thought that everyone
in the UK and everyone | 0:26:23 | 0:26:26 | |
in Northern Ireland would want
and expect the UK Government and UK | 0:26:26 | 0:26:29 | |
ministers to leave
no stone unturned. | 0:26:29 | 0:26:35 | |
They would,
but you say no stone unturned, | 0:26:35 | 0:26:38 | |
four pages looks like
no effort expended. | 0:26:38 | 0:26:42 | |
No, this is... | 0:26:42 | 0:26:44 | |
I think you are referring to
the final ITC, where it is looking | 0:26:44 | 0:26:47 | |
at the detriment to Boeing. | 0:26:47 | 0:26:51 | |
It is not about, it is not
asking questions as to | 0:26:51 | 0:26:53 | |
what the UK's involvement in that. | 0:26:53 | 0:26:56 | |
So, the Business Secretary rejects
the charge that the Government | 0:26:56 | 0:26:59 | |
didn't come in full force. | 0:26:59 | 0:27:00 | |
Labour's Owen Smith took a different
view when shown the ITC submission. | 0:27:00 | 0:27:05 | |
What are your thoughts? | 0:27:05 | 0:27:09 | |
That's all? | 0:27:09 | 0:27:10 | |
The evidence you have provided
today seems to bear out | 0:27:10 | 0:27:12 | |
that they have been more concerned
with the optics of looking | 0:27:12 | 0:27:15 | |
to be doing a good job,
defending jobs here in Belfast, | 0:27:15 | 0:27:18 | |
rather than doing so. | 0:27:18 | 0:27:20 | |
If this government is prepared
to stand by and see Trump put | 0:27:20 | 0:27:24 | |
America first, but Theresa May not
put Britain first, not put UK jobs | 0:27:24 | 0:27:27 | |
first, then I think legitimate
questions will be asked | 0:27:27 | 0:27:30 | |
about their fitness
to remain in government. | 0:27:30 | 0:27:34 | |
Crucially, how does this play
with the DUP, who keep | 0:27:34 | 0:27:36 | |
the government in power? | 0:27:36 | 0:27:40 | |
If you feel that you have perhaps
been led up the garden path | 0:27:40 | 0:27:43 | |
does that damage the relationship
between the DUP and the Government? | 0:27:43 | 0:27:46 | |
Well, our relationship is very clear
and it's very public and it's | 0:27:46 | 0:27:49 | |
on very particular things. | 0:27:49 | 0:27:50 | |
So, the Government can
do whatever they want | 0:27:50 | 0:27:52 | |
on Bombardier and you will have
to keep supporting them? | 0:27:52 | 0:27:54 | |
No, that's not the case. | 0:27:54 | 0:27:55 | |
There will be many
opportunities when given | 0:27:55 | 0:27:57 | |
the position that we have. | 0:27:57 | 0:27:58 | |
They will find that our support
could have been quite | 0:27:58 | 0:28:01 | |
useful and it may
not have been there. | 0:28:01 | 0:28:03 | |
But let's not get
ahead of ourselves. | 0:28:03 | 0:28:05 | |
Let's take account of
the information that | 0:28:05 | 0:28:07 | |
you're sharing and let's
see where that takes me. | 0:28:07 | 0:28:12 | |
I share the full picture
of government activity - | 0:28:12 | 0:28:15 | |
or inactivity - with Gaye. | 0:28:15 | 0:28:16 | |
Has it been no stone unturned
when you look at some | 0:28:16 | 0:28:18 | |
of the documents there? | 0:28:18 | 0:28:24 | |
Well, it doesn't look very good. | 0:28:24 | 0:28:26 | |
It's disappointing when you see
that they only submitted four pages. | 0:28:26 | 0:28:29 | |
It is disappointing. | 0:28:29 | 0:28:33 | |
We're not trying to
overhype the threat here | 0:28:33 | 0:28:35 | |
but it is a real threat. | 0:28:35 | 0:28:37 | |
100% it's a real threat. | 0:28:37 | 0:28:38 | |
Definitely. | 0:28:38 | 0:28:39 | |
And anybody who doesn't think
like that is very, very wrong. | 0:28:39 | 0:28:41 | |
It's 100% a real threat
to all the jobs within Belfast. | 0:28:41 | 0:28:45 | |
On Friday, the ITC will
make its final decision. | 0:28:45 | 0:28:48 | |
The future of Bombardier
and its workers in Belfast | 0:28:48 | 0:28:50 | |
hangs in the balance. | 0:28:50 | 0:28:54 | |
The Government promised them
and the DUP no stone unturned. | 0:28:54 | 0:28:58 | |
The question is, has that
pledge been honoured? | 0:28:58 | 0:29:01 | |
Meanwhile in the US,
there's no question where | 0:29:01 | 0:29:03 | |
political support lies. | 0:29:03 | 0:29:10 | |
May God bless the United
States of America and | 0:29:10 | 0:29:18 | |
God bless Boeing. | 0:29:21 | 0:29:27 |