Browse content similar to 19/02/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Here in the East Midlands: Ken Clarke and Graham Allen on 70 | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
being the new 50, legal aid cuts, and how we can revive our cities. | :01:31. | :01:41. | |
:01:41. | :01:41. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1716 seconds | :01:41. | :30:17. | |
Hello, I'm Marie Ashby, and my guests in the East Midlands need | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
little introduction. Justice Secretary Ken Clarke and the Labour | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
MP for Nottingham North, Graham Allen. | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
I've got to start with your Oldie Award, Ken. Last week Liz Kendall | :30:27. | :30:33. | |
said in your case 70 is obviously the new 50! Music to your ears! | :30:33. | :30:40. | |
Yes! I would like more and more of that, if possible! I was very | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
surprised it was so soon and my reaction was, me so young?! There | :30:45. | :30:52. | |
is no Merit to it. You just grow older! A very good lunch on the | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
Strand and the problem was, I was the only one doing a job. So I left | :30:57. | :31:03. | |
all these celebrities of yesteryear having a very good afternoon's | :31:03. | :31:09. | |
post-prandial talk! It was fine! Rather good! I must look at the | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
magazine more often. I think they got it wrong. My money was on | :31:13. | :31:18. | |
Dennis Skinner! He has been called a dinosaur! So you don't think it's | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
time to write your memoirs just yet! Well, I have often stayed to | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
avoid writing my memoirs. When I have got absolutely nothing to do | :31:28. | :31:33. | |
and I suddenly find myself not in politics, not an MP or a minister | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
or anything of that kind, I suppose I shall have a go. I do read | :31:38. | :31:45. | |
memoirs. Historic ones. They are all so self-justifying. Your | :31:45. | :31:47. | |
Rushcliffe constituency disappears at the next election, when it'll be | :31:47. | :31:55. | |
swallowed up by the new Coalville and Newark seats. Well, there will | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
be people like me in every walk of life. The thought of retiring has | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
never crossed my mind but the problem is, it does cross the mind | :32:03. | :32:11. | |
of others. You will let us know what you're up to, went to? I will. | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
I will that my association are in good time as well. But there are | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
separate associations to be set up first. I am at an age where I have | :32:20. | :32:25. | |
decided I am rather nearer the event! I don't think that the | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
Conservative Party will ever let Ken go. He is the acceptable face | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
of the Conservatives. Red in tooth and claw! He always comes across so | :32:34. | :32:40. | |
reasonably... Weight! We haven't started discussions yet! If -- | :32:40. | :32:49. | |
wait! But you are not going. Let's move onto an issue which is | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
very much the Justice Secretary's brief - the Legal Aid Bill. It | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
reached its committee stage in the House of Lords this week and it | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
aims to cut �350 million from the �2 billion legal aid budget. How | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
can you slash that amount without causing more hardship or injustice? | :33:04. | :33:10. | |
We are not depriving access to any body in terms of justice. We are | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
retaining the most generous legal aid system in the world. There is | :33:14. | :33:19. | |
no other demographic country where the taxpayer should spend this | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
amount of money in financing litigation or anything like it. It | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
is actually about how many lawyers, how money expert witnesses, how | :33:28. | :33:35. | |
many claims managers, etc, are paid by the taxpayer for resolving their | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
battles, and we are actually asking the question, what should the | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
taxpayer pay for? The taxpayer should pay for those brushes with | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
the law that people who are not able to afford their own | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
representation have when it is on vital, important matters affecting | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
their freedoms. He is not wrong about the generous legal aid system | :33:56. | :34:05. | |
we had in our country. Ours costs �39 per person, compared with just | :34:05. | :34:11. | |
�5 in France and Germany. Well, Ken is so good at these wafting | :34:11. | :34:21. | |
:34:21. | :34:22. | ||
statements and everything flows by. Real people are being heard by | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
these cuts. They are my constituents, people on low incomes, | :34:26. | :34:31. | |
people on housing, landlord and tenant issues, people with problems | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
with debt. You need to get your advice early and this is the | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
strange thing. And Ken knows this, he is a former Chancellor of the | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
Exchequer. If you can help people really early on, you don't pay | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
loads and loads of money downstream when they have got to go through | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
much more expensive litigation or they need extra healthcare. You are | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
basically saying those who need help but will not get it? They | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
don't lead litigation for most of those things being talked about. | :34:59. | :35:06. | |
For debt, the Government puts money into debt advice of various kinds. | :35:06. | :35:12. | |
It puts money into the Citizens Advice Bureau. Often, it is more | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
general advice they require. And in Nottingham, they are possibly going | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
to have to close the Nottingham or send. That does affect those things | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
talked about. People pop into those things needing lawyers and they get | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
great advice. They get advice from relatively cheap means and they can | :35:31. | :35:37. | |
access extra legal advice if they then needed. Ken, your own | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
department says there of 45,000 fewer cases where Bobby Ball would | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
be represented? We are putting that money into not-for-profit general | :35:46. | :35:51. | |
advice centres, including the Law centres. That is not really the | :35:51. | :35:57. | |
case, Ken... What are you saying to George Osborne? I knew cutting your | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
budget or not? This is about lawyer's... I am cutting 350 | :36:02. | :36:07. | |
million and it should be more. This is the best we can do. We have a | :36:07. | :36:12. | |
staggering bill, as has already been said. All the common law | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
countries are the same. Nobody dreams paying lawyers out of can -- | :36:16. | :36:24. | |
the amount of taxation that we do. One area we will cut on his | :36:24. | :36:30. | |
criminal negligence. The health service is in crisis. The billions | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
of pounds it is having to make provision as claims managers | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
advertise on buses to get people to bring claims at enormous expense | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
and bring actions against the health authorities and those have | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
to be settled and insured against the costs and it comes out of their | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
budget. We can see why the government is determined to take | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
action on this because you get people appealing and appealing and | :36:54. | :37:00. | |
appealing? I don't think you do. People hate lawyers like they hate | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
MPs but they like their own lawyer. Their own lawyer helps them when | :37:04. | :37:10. | |
they are desperate and often people come to me as a final Court of | :37:10. | :37:12. | |
Appeal and they are really desperate. Often because they are | :37:12. | :37:19. | |
not able to access the legal system as it stands. It is a closed club | :37:19. | :37:23. | |
as it stands, so taking away legal aid will make it much worse for | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
those people, particularly on low incomes. But what about defending | :37:27. | :37:33. | |
themselves? They come to me and they come to Graham in surgeries. | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
They need help of social security claims and so on. We help them and | :37:38. | :37:44. | |
we have staff that help them - case workers. Not on the scale people | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
think but they help sort them out. Or they go to the Citizens Advice | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
Bureau. Some go to a solicitor who gives exactly the same advice as we | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
do. With great respect, the solicitors icy don't know as much | :37:57. | :38:03. | |
about the social security system as we do or of workers, and they send | :38:03. | :38:09. | |
a large bill have for a fee - legal aid. There will be some who | :38:09. | :38:19. | |
:38:19. | :38:21. | ||
desperately need this service to one no longer able to access it. | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
Next, this week's unemployment figures showed 188,000 people in | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
our region are now out of work. But one of our cities isn't waiting for | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
the Chancellor to do more to boost the economy. It's ploughing more | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
than �100 million into schemes, which it's hoped will create | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
thousands of jobs, as Chris Doidge reports. | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
Derby, like anywhere, has seen a few changes over the years. Almost | :38:37. | :38:39. | |
nothing in the picture survives. But with the economic gloom hitting | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
the City particularly hard in 2011, the council in trying to intervene | :38:43. | :38:49. | |
in 2012. To give the city a kick- start. This is the council's | :38:49. | :38:55. | |
headquarters. 500 staff moved out last year. By Christmas, 2000 will | :38:55. | :39:01. | |
be able to move back in. We are now standing in the middle of what will | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
be the council chamber. They were sceptical at first him what we were | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
trying to do but I think they are beginning to understand that by | :39:08. | :39:13. | |
investing in this building, bringing in 2000 staff instead of | :39:13. | :39:18. | |
500, is the best use of resources. The council also showed me the | :39:19. | :39:23. | |
first fruit from the city's innovative regeneration fund. A �10 | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
million pot designed to nudge businesses into creating jobs. | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
is an enormous, iconic scheme for the City and the first office | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
development out of the ground for 30 years. But its council money | :39:36. | :39:43. | |
that has convinced the site's developers to get cracking. I guess | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
at a time when there are sensitive pressures on budgets, it is | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
difficult to justify spending money on this instead of day care and | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
home care centres? I think what local of bodies have got to do is | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
take a wide approach to what they're doing and if we | :40:00. | :40:03. | |
concentrated on the very narrow aspect of the day-to-day aspect, we | :40:03. | :40:07. | |
would lose sight of the wider picture, which is making the City | :40:08. | :40:14. | |
for up -- thrive. And then this car-park. Perhaps the most | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
ambitious part of the plan. It is set to become a Velodrome with his | :40:18. | :40:23. | |
sporting and musical ambitions. So how does the council judged -- | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
justified that added time of austerity? You are right, it is a | :40:27. | :40:33. | |
tricky balancing act. But we have got to do these things to make | :40:33. | :40:39. | |
Derby a good place to live and work. The Investment has cross-party | :40:39. | :40:41. | |
support but the refurbishments have met with scepticism from the | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
opposition. We think there are better things to spend money on | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
that and that we should be spending money on council housing. We have | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
7,000 on a waiting lists. But we do support the swimming pool and we | :40:54. | :40:59. | |
think there is a need to do that. We would support it. Doing up this | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
building will cost taxpayers �90 million in mortgage payments over | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
the coming decades. It is a decision made around the same time | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
as the spending cuts began. Some argue this and other big project in | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
Derby are strange things to be doing at a time of austerity and | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
those who stand to benefit the most say the changes can't come soon | :41:18. | :41:24. | |
enough. The last two years, I have seen a change in the attitudes and | :41:24. | :41:29. | |
be far more positive role played by the authorities are encouraging | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
activity and regeneration. I think that is a good thing and everybody | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
welcomes it with open arms. council says the project they have | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
started on up on budget, on time and likely to overbore form. But | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
this Duration of politicians could be long gone by the time their | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
Grand Designs can be properly judged. -- this generation. | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
Graham Allen, the message from Derby is clear. Whatever party you | :41:53. | :42:01. | |
belong to, you can make things happen locally. It's not just Derby. | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
Yes. I wrote a little piece about giving local government much more | :42:05. | :42:13. | |
freedom. The answer to our economic problems is not some super brain in | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
Whitehall telling us what to do. It is local projects like this. We | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
have seen a loss of innovation in shopping and retell and our towns | :42:23. | :42:30. | |
and cities across the East Midlands, if we let them loose and freer, as | :42:30. | :42:34. | |
every Western democracy is, to run their own affairs, I think we will | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
find out there is so much creativity out there. I like the | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
spirit of the Derby operation and the leaders turning their energy | :42:44. | :42:49. | |
into how to help businesses and regenerate the economy. I would | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
like to know more about Derby's ballot sheet. And have not seen the | :42:53. | :42:59. | |
business plan and I don't know the effect on the overall situation. | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
They have had �10 million from reserves. Yes, but we have to get | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
something back from that. I presume they have worked out how the | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
Velodrome will pay and how the money will be saved by closing down | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
these satellite office blocks. And also they are not put in too many | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
officials in their great new headquarters. I don't want to sound | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
churlish because they have a great businessman supporting them. But | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
the idea that any big prestige project is a good thing to be seen | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
doing can be very short term. And the history of this country is | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
littered with local authorities investing sometimes him very, very | :43:37. | :43:45. | |
ill-advised things. -- investing in. I would love to see a partnership | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
between entrepreneurs and business leaders, with those who run | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
businesses, not just property developers. Businessmen as well. | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
we were to listen to central government of all colours, they | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
don't exactly have the best record of economic prudence over many | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
decades. In the local area, you find you have counsellors, leaders, | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
mayors, who are very much in touch and sensitive to what they can do | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
locally and need to win over their electorate. I would like to see our | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
cities saying whether they would like to raise revenue in different | :44:20. | :44:25. | |
ways. They would have to explain it very carefully that if you want to | :44:25. | :44:30. | |
run a tax of any sort or a money- raising thing, a bond issue, let | :44:30. | :44:37. | |
them have that freedom. And I am afraid we have had localism and the | :44:37. | :44:42. | |
rhetoric of that, but what they're saying now is that let's define | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
local government as a separate entity so that it can get on with | :44:46. | :44:53. | |
life rather than Mr Pickles deciding how many things can happen. | :44:53. | :44:59. | |
We are cautious. There is a Localism Bill and we have greatly | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
extend the powers councils have to do things. Instinctively, I find | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
this attractive. I am probably scarred by my recollection of the | :45:08. | :45:13. | |
disastrous times we used to have with Liverpool and Moseley and | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
Lambeth and those corrupt sort of bankrupt oligarchies that we used | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
to have. That was in the 1980s. We need protection against that. You | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
let people do this and I have no reason whatever to doubt that the | :45:27. | :45:33. | |
people in Derby know what they are doing. Every local authority can do | :45:33. | :45:36. | |
whatever it likes. You have some City boss you will reduce the play | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
is... They are a conservative Lib Dem coalition, which is rather | :45:41. | :45:47. | |
familiar! -- Conservative-Lib Dem coalition. They are spending more | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
to get the country growing. Sheffield went bankrupt in the | :45:52. | :46:01. | |
1980s by trying to do its own thing. One at a time, gentlemen! | :46:01. | :46:08. | |
mistake an individual Prime Minister makes affect everybody. | :46:08. | :46:13. | |
Whereas if you have ideas out there, people are bright enough and we can | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
learn from each other. You don't have to have one size fits all. And | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
if you listen to what is going on in other places, you will have much | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
better economic development. Budget is only a few weeks away. | :46:27. | :46:32. | |
What should be done to create jobs? I think George Osborne would do us | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
a great favour if he were to allow local authorities and local people | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
to Willette who they felt almost appropriate in their areas and let | :46:40. | :46:47. | |
them get on. -- local people to elect. George Osborne knows all the | :46:47. | :46:54. | |
answers! I don't think he was saying that! A lot of people are | :46:54. | :46:58. | |
going in for a vast prestige project. They have got to try to do | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
something to help investors and businessmen in small and medium- | :47:02. | :47:07. | |
size enterprises in particular create jobs and develop their ideas | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
and for goods and services to be marketed. I don't think any | :47:11. | :47:20. | |
politicians anywhere think that huge glossy project will help. | :47:20. | :47:27. | |
hear you! Time for a round-up of our other political stories in the | :47:27. | :47:37. | |
:47:37. | :47:41. | ||
Spot the mistake. No! East Midlands MP did. At Strasbourg, he was | :47:41. | :47:47. | |
incensed to discover if the Union Jack flying upside-down! After 33 | :47:47. | :47:52. | |
years, we should by now have learned which way up to hang the | :47:52. | :47:58. | |
British flag! Thank you! And the European Union is being accused of | :47:58. | :48:08. | |
:48:08. | :48:09. | ||
pulling the wool over from as' eyes. They have to tag all the sheep. | :48:09. | :48:15. | |
They say doing this to over one million in a region is unrealistic. | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
And it has been said a Home Office should pay towards the �1 million | :48:19. | :48:26. | |
it cost to police this month's EDL march in Leicester. They are going | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
to court to press their case. And if you're wondering who was | :48:30. | :48:40. | |
responsible for the upside-down flag? I am blame it on the French. | :48:40. | :48:45. | |
I am glad we flag that up for you. But more seriously, should the | :48:45. | :48:51. | |
Government stump up some money for the EDL protests? There are rules | :48:51. | :49:00. | |
about it. Anything that costs the local police service quite a bit of | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
money, there will be other disorders and demonstrations. | :49:04. | :49:10. | |
Exporting events. These things just happen. You cannot say it comes as | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
a surprise. I will leave it to the Home Office to argue with Leicester | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
as to whether this crosses the threshold where you get a national | :49:17. | :49:25. | |
contribution. If the police have had two EDL marches in the last two | :49:26. | :49:32. | |
years. It is money they could spend on police officers. If it is | :49:32. | :49:36. | |
exceptional, I am sure the Home Office will pay. There are very | :49:36. | :49:44. | |
strict rules... Should this change? I think we should send the bill to | :49:44. | :49:52. | |
EDL and then they might crawl back under the stone they came from! | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
it looks like they won't get any government help. Should that | :49:55. | :50:00. | |
change? It just means the taxpayer pays more through central | :50:00. | :50:04. |