12/02/2012 Sunday Politics East Midlands

Here, the battle between Communities Secretary Eric Pickles

and community councils. And the bosses' leader who claims

that cutting pupils at vocational qualifications will hit

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1696 seconds

Hello. I am Marie Ashby. Our guests this week are the Labour MP for

Leicester West, Liz Kendall, and the Lib-Dem candidate for Ashfield,

Jason Zadrozny. Liz Kendall is shadow Health Minister and she is

playing a key role in the fight against the government's Health

Bill. Jason was just a whisker away from overturning a 10,000 Labour

majority in Ashfield at the last election. Next week the Lib-Dems

hold their regional conference. What does the future hold for the

Liberal Democrats in the East Midlands, the only region in the

country without a single Liberal Democrat MP? I think things are

starting to look up for the Liberal Democrats. We have had the news of

two very impressive by-election gains in Northamptonshire, one with

a 30 % swing to the Liberal Democrats. I think there will be

much positive discussion at the conference. Would it help if you

stop blaming Labour for everything? If Labour were not to blame for

everything, that would be a possibility. I think people see us

in a different light. In different is the Liberal Democrats are

becoming more acceptable because we have our message and a record in

government. We fed the Liberal Democrat Sea would have had an even

bigger uphill climb against the Government's health bill, wouldn't

you? No, I think the government has had trouble on its health bill

because doctors and nurses think it is wrong. Patience and the public

are starting to see the consequences in increased waits for

treatment and more waste. That is the real reason why the Government

has got problems. In the interest of patients and the taxpayer, the

Government should drop the Bill. you find it difficult to stomach

the extent to which Nick Clegg has hitched his wagon to David Cameron?

We are in a coalition and we have to stand by some things that are

not Liberal Democrat policy to get through that. Are I understand you

have had discussions with senior Labour will -- with senior Labour

officials in Nottinghamshire about switching to Labour? No. It would

be irresponsible for any opposition member not to have discussions

about ways of working with other parties. So you have spoken to

Labour officials, but not about joining Labour? Not about joining

Labour. But I speak to all sorts of officials about how we can say what

we mean when we're giving our messages and making sure that they

come through. We have put through the biggest pension rises ever and

changes to the tax system that a stand-alone Conservative government

would never have done. And you joining Labour has never been

brought up? No, it is not on the cards. But you have resigned from

the East Midlands executive of the Liberal Democrats? Yes, because I

have other responsibilities. It is only fair to lead brand new people

come through. There are bound to be Liberal-Democrats that an unhappy

with the coalition, but that is not translating to more support for you,

the Labour Party? Eight days. In my constituency, the remaining liberal

Democrat councillors lost their seats to Labour. -- it is. People

who voted Liberal Democrat last time say to me that they cannot

believe that after pledging to scrap tuition fees, to reorganise

the NHS, they just do not recognise what they see and they feel

betrayed by that. But I know that Labour has to work really hard to

get back the support of people. We do not take that for granted and we

will be campaigning for every vote. This week has also seen a war of

words between Communities Secretary Eric Pickles and fellow

Conservatives on Nottinghamshire county council over spending cuts.

He has accused them of making disproportionate cuts in the money

they give the voluntary sector. It is a charge they vigorously deny.

And their deputy leader, Martin Suthers, joins us now.

If you have cut the grants that you give voluntary groups by �1 million,

34 %, when the money you get from central government is being reduced

by 8%. Is it any wonder that Eric Pickles sees that as

disproportionate? That is perfectly true, we did carted by 34 %. But

let's make it clear that you will not find another county in the

country that was giving �3 million in voluntary aid to that sector.

Most of the support to the voluntary sector raised through

commissioning services, and the grant aid, we take the view that it

should be the icing on the cake. We're probably finding the

voluntary sector to the tune of about �25 million. Why so much in

one year, so fast and so hard in one year? Partly to get the

voluntary sector to make the same hard decisions over overheads that

we're having to make. Over a four year appeared we will be facing a

reduction in government support of around 38 %. That sort of figure.

We have had some great success in doing that because across the

voluntary sector, they have been cutting back on overheads and

collaborating with each other, applying successfully for

substantial sums of lottery funding. It has made them think about those

issues so we get better value for money, and they get stability.

These cuts have got to be made and you are basically saying we have

got to get them done? I think that in Nottinghamshire they are

disproportionately cutting from the voluntary sector and front loading

the cuts. The reason that is a problem is because most of them run

on very low overheads. If you take a big cut in the first year, many

will end up closing. It is important because voluntary

organisations provide a lifeline for many people. RDA cutting the

lifeline? I think they are. The Tory government is making massive

cuts, and the council's on top of that are doing that

disproportionately to the voluntary sector. There are difficult

decisions to make but in my experience, voluntary organisations

do not have massive overheads. We're starting from a different

position, from virtually any other county council. That is part of it.

Over the four year period you will find that because we're achieving

stability, that maintaining the 2 million for the next three years,

which is what is in our budget strategy, then over that time the

cuts will be proportionate, but the voluntary sector will have the

stability of knowing where they are. We are entering into three-year

agreements with as many of them as we can. Did you vote against this

34 % cut? Yes, and there were some issues which the Liberal Democrats

raised then. The cuts were front loaded. I do not think they are so

disproportionate across the medium term. They hit the voluntary sector

in a way that perhaps we would not like, but the medium term gives

them some stability. One of the fundamental principles of the

coalition government in terms of local government is that local

people should decide. Like it or heated, the Conservatives have an

outright majority on Nottinghamshire council, and Eric

Pickles should not be meddling. problem with front loading the cuts

to the voluntary sector is if they work on a shoestring and have small

budgets, they will be decimated and they will close. That is the real

concern. I think the cuts go too fast. We need to make sure that we

retain a good voluntary sector. They are absolutely vital. It is

hypocritical of a coalition government that said they wanted

Big Society. Do you want to decimate the voluntary sector?

is not happening. We work very closely with them. And we will

continue to do so. �5 million has gone to help people with learning

difficulties, two point five times the grant aid budget. Taking the

attitude that we have has given us a positive response. Citizens

Advice Bureaux, for instance, we now say to them, here is �2,000

grant, you decide, not politicians, you decide where to spend that

money. You have about �25 million in unallocated reserves, you could

take money out of that, would that be a solution? Apart from the fact

that we have to keep reserves for any unexpected contingencies...

a rainy day? Yes, but there are problems that will rise. There is a

very ambitious programme on the road network Q. We cannot squander

the reserves in the meantime. -- road network.

Next, an unlikely critic of the government's decision to downgrade

pupils' vocational qualifications. In future they will count for less

in schools league tables. But bosses leader Lord Digby Jones says

that is bad news for pupils and employers in the East Midlands. Rob

Whitehouse reports. This story has been a gift, you

could say a gift horse. That is to those who are opposed to vocational

education. Our schools really teaching horse management, how to

mark out? Yes, that is one of the 3,000 vocational courses being

downgraded by the Government after they heard the results of a highly

critical report. A lot of vocational qualifications are just

that. They do not belong in a measure of how well as school is

providing education for children. The Government says that many

schools are using GCSE equivalent courses to boost their position in

the school league tables. At this college in Derby they denied the

charge. We set our curriculum up to benefit our students, not to chase

league table rankings. These students learning catering skills

in the college kitchen certainly value their course. I would not

like them to go because people would be struggling without them.

It is a massive help for me. I want to be a chef. Do you think it will

help you get a job? Yes. At this prestigious Academy, it is

the downgrading of their engineering diploma, once

equivalent to five GCSEs, soon to be just one, that has caused real

offence. They insist it is a rounded course. A qualification

like this really prepares young people. It gives them core skills

in engineering. That is what employers tell us they want. That

is what our partner organisations like Rolls-Royce and tie or a tap

tell us they want young people to leave with. It is the message this

sends to bosses that worries some. I hope the government will change

their mind. It is worth fighting for this one because it is

important for the country and the East Midlands economy.

pretending that everything is equal and everything is suitable for a

15-year-old, we have not increased his stake is a vocational

qualifications, we have done the opposite. But a public school that

charges �9,000 per term is more than happy to defend the value of

such courses. Abbotsholme School, set in the Derbyshire hills,

regards this kind of education as essential. Vocational courses

provide an education for life, not just University. They provide

skills for pupils to be implied. Doing this for occasional cause

will ensure that I have practical skills to do they know any medicine

at university. It is totally different from being in a classroom,

but in the real-world, I think it means more to people. Abbotsholme

school was created by an educational vision a, a man called

Dr Cecil Reddie. His aim was to instil education for life. The

staff here feel that he would not approve of the current bonfire of

vocation or qualifications. Clearly a lot of concern, but some

people will say that Labour was asking for trouble when it decided

to let schools and colleges trade so many GCSEs for Vocational

qualifications? We have got to make sure that children do not end up

taking subjects if they want to go to university, that those

universities will not accept. We also need to make sure that people

get good quality vocational qualifications. It is interesting

that businesses are saying that they valued good quality

qualifications. It is vital for the country. We need to get the balance

right and my concern is that the Government is throwing the baby out

with the bathwater. That engineering qualification is now

worth one GCSE instead of five. that is developed by good, high

quality businesses. It worries me that those good quality vocational

courses that business's value and young people like doing are going

to be thrown out. Wasn't this widely interpreted as a way of

making the school league tables League better anyway? We need to

find a way of really stretching children. But also to value the

vocational qualifications. I think the government is going too far.

Whose camp are you in? Professor Wolf's or Digby Jones? A little of

both, as you would expect from a Liberal Democrat. I think there has

been a downgrading of occasional qualifications. I was not brilliant

in the classrooms so I did a practical qualification.

National Diploma in performing arts? Yes, and it did me no harm. I

knew where it was leading. Now we have nearly 170,000 students are to

doing courses that do not leading to many were caught other

qualifications. I can understand why there is a last of -- why there

is a loss of aspirations. In my constituency, sometimes there is

fourth-generation unemployment. everyone is academic? And no, but

the head teachers in my constituency will say to me,

actually, vocational qualifications sometimes act as a hook backing to

academic qualifications. They see they can succeed and they can use

their skills at. We need to concentrate on our core subjects as

well. Our reputation for languages is terrible? Yes, literacy and

numeracy are the absolute basics. I am worried about moving towards a

curriculum which does not recognise the value of occasional

qualifications. I have so many businesses saying to me, we do not

get the people we need with the skills we need come and getting

jobs is what we need in the East Midlands.

Time now for our regular round-up of the week's political stories in

the East Midlands. A dozen East Midlands MPs have

called on David Cameron to cut subsidies to the wind-power

industry. They want brand new planning rules to make it easier

for local communities to object to wind farms. Nick Clegg is hit back

saying he is a massive supporter of renewables.

Senior Conservative councillors are calling on their leader and

Leicestershire to resign. It follows an investigation into his

travel expenses to Europe. He denies any wrongdoing.

This Leicester teenager is not playing his protest by the book. He

has made a YouTube video to speak out against the closure of his

library on his estate. I believe this decision should be reversed.

Finally, the Justice Secretary Ken Clarke has been named old person of

the year by the magazine that describes itself as the antidote to

youth culture. And to think, he is only 71!

What do you think Ken will make of that? I think so, it is a bit of

fun, but the serious side is that age is not a barrier to anything.

do not think he is an old person. I think 70 is the brand new 50. I