Browse content similar to 11/03/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The Conservative MEP who has defected to UKIP faces his critics. | :01:30. | :01:40. | |
:01:40. | :01:40. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1809 seconds | :01:40. | :31:49. | |
Good morning. I have the Labour MP for North-East Derbyshire and the | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
Conservative MP for Derbyshire South. Coming up, e-petitions were | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
meant to make the Government listened, but why are they not | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
working? And the pilot scheme that will give | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
people the right to ask if their partner has a history of domestic | :32:06. | :32:11. | |
violence. When Tory member of the European | :32:11. | :32:16. | |
Parliament Roger Helmer announced he was quitting, we asked if he had | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
any plans to leave the Conservative Party. No, I have no plans at all | :32:21. | :32:27. | |
after I have retired, except to take a long rest. Then, lo and | :32:27. | :32:36. | |
behold last weekend, he joined UKIP. Roger Helmer is with me now. One | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
minute you say you're not going to leave the Conservative Party, and | :32:40. | :32:45. | |
then next you move to UKIP. No wonder some of your former | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
Conservative colleagues feel betrayed by what has happened. | :32:48. | :32:54. | |
said I had no plans to leave, and that was correct, but I was allowed | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
to make other plans later drawn. How long have you had the plan to | :32:58. | :33:04. | |
join UKIP? Some months. You have not shown me when I made those | :33:04. | :33:09. | |
previous comments. Probably five or six months to. That injury was five | :33:09. | :33:15. | |
months ago. You said you had no plans to leave. At the time. Within | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
a short space of time of that interview, you have changed your | :33:19. | :33:25. | |
mind. I had been becoming more and more concerned about the position | :33:25. | :33:31. | |
of the Conservative Party. I have been a party member for 40 years, | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
and a Conservative MEP for 12 years, and I had been trying to work from | :33:36. | :33:42. | |
inside the party to move it into a more Euro-sceptic direction. | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
you say you have had all of this history but the party, and then you | :33:46. | :33:51. | |
leave the people who voted UN as a Tory MEP, wondering what it was all | :33:51. | :33:57. | |
about. The thing was, I had finally reached the conclusion that the | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
Conservative Party was not going to deliver anything I wanted on Europe. | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
In terms of the people who selected me three times as number one on the | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
European list, they selected me because I like -- they liked what I | :34:08. | :34:17. | |
said about Europe. Angela Conservative. -- and you are a | :34:17. | :34:22. | |
conservative. Let me remind you what you said when your fellow MP | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
quit the Conservatives for the Lib Dems. These are your words. He has | :34:26. | :34:36. | |
:34:36. | :34:37. | ||
abdicated his position and has upset for 2% off the people in the | :34:37. | :34:43. | |
region who voted Conservative. Do you remember saying that? I believe | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
that to be true, and I believe that a parliamentarian who wishes to | :34:47. | :34:54. | |
change parties should leave. I announced my resignation in October, | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
and I fully intended to leave the parliament on 31st December. The | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
problem was that I was resigning in favour of the next in line under | :35:03. | :35:13. | |
:35:13. | :35:13. | ||
this European minis... But you have not resigned. I did resign. I then | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
found it is a much more complicated process in the European Parliament. | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
Then the party chairman said we are not sure about who we want to be | :35:21. | :35:27. | |
next in line. What is your point to Roger? He is blaming the system and | :35:27. | :35:32. | |
the rules. What do you say about that? Hugely disappointed. I was | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
there 12 years ago when Roger was selected, and when he was selected | :35:37. | :35:42. | |
eight years ago. I am hugely disappointed it has happened. I do | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
not think there was any need for it. He feels completely betrayed and | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
let down, and is that -- that is not how it should have happened. It | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
should have been sorted out and of October. But that aside, should he | :35:55. | :36:04. | |
just step down? I wish he had. I understand why he is hanging down, | :36:04. | :36:10. | |
but I wish he had gone. But you understand why he is hanging on? | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
is true to his principles. The system is ludicrous in Europe, and | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
is another reason why we should get out. But isn't this about being | :36:19. | :36:25. | |
true to the voters? I think I can deliver better on the policies and | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
principles I set out when I was elected from my new position. | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
should they not have been given the chance? You said you were | :36:33. | :36:37. | |
conservative, now you have changed sides. I could not give them the | :36:37. | :36:47. | |
:36:47. | :36:49. | ||
chance to re-elect a particular Conservative, and the party | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
chairman has said no. At a meeting on Wednesday, the party chairman | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
was given a roasting about this. What do you think should be done | :36:56. | :37:01. | |
about this, Natasha? It is really difficult. In European elections, | :37:01. | :37:06. | |
even more so than in general elections, people vote on party | :37:06. | :37:11. | |
lines. So people voted Conservative. I am sure many people gave you a | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
personal vote, but people vote for the party. That is true of all of | :37:15. | :37:24. | |
us. They will feel betrayed. Does that not prick your conscience? | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
because I know the people I have represented for 12 years and they | :37:27. | :37:32. | |
agree with me on Europe. They thought they were voting for a | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
Euro-sceptic party, and it has turned out that the party they | :37:35. | :37:41. | |
voted for is not a Euro-sceptic party. In my new position I can be | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
a more effective Euro-sceptic. you be standing for UKIP at the | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
next European election? It is too early to be talking about that, and | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
I will be even older then, so I have no plan about staying next | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
time. So you might come back and a few months and tell us? It takes a | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
few months for you to decide. a shame to rule anything out. But I | :38:03. | :38:09. | |
have no plans at the moment. Thank you. | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
It was one of the coalition's their ideas. E-petitions that attracted | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
the most support could get debated in the Commons, but that has not | :38:16. | :38:25. | |
worked out. In 2009, these people tried to hand | :38:25. | :38:32. | |
in a petition about CCTV. Things did not quite go to plan at Derby | :38:32. | :38:38. | |
City Council. You can see why, from the point of | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
view of government, submitting petitions online might be an | :38:41. | :38:50. | |
attractive way of doing things. But are they making them two -- bar a | :38:50. | :39:00. | |
:39:00. | :39:01. | ||
e-petitions making them listen to us or fobbing us off? | :39:01. | :39:06. | |
The inquiry into hills around looks as if it will be spared a, partly | :39:06. | :39:16. | |
:39:16. | :39:16. | ||
because of the e-petitions. And the rioting in August had more | :39:16. | :39:23. | |
discussion because of this. But other e-petitions have | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
struggled to get time in the Commons, including one on NHS | :39:27. | :39:36. | |
reforms. The Government's e- petitions made 100,000 signatures | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
before a debate in the House of Commons will be considered. The | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
trouble is, just six days a year have been currently set aside for | :39:44. | :39:49. | |
those debates. Since the National e-petitions sites went live last | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
summer, nine have had that threshold. Then there is this | :39:54. | :40:01. | |
process to go through before a debate takes place. If an MP does | :40:01. | :40:06. | |
not support the petition, the issue could be completely ignored. | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
Sometimes there are good reasons for the debate not happening. There | :40:09. | :40:15. | |
is only a limited amount of time available. But I think there will | :40:15. | :40:25. | |
be a popular backlash of the debates do not happen. | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
The man who started the Citizen's Forum hopes this kind of event | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
could come to be seen as a more effective way of talking to those | :40:33. | :40:42. | |
in power. I think we can take some action, through the focus we have, | :40:42. | :40:52. | |
:40:52. | :40:54. | ||
we can invite experts to make a real difference. | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
As the group continued debating, they got on to the subject of e- | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
petitions. You end up disappointing the public that expect something to | :41:02. | :41:08. | |
happen as a result of e-petitions. It does not tell people in the long | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
run because people will be disappointed. You have one year to | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
gather your 100,000 people, so if you gather them in one week, will | :41:17. | :41:23. | |
the process be speeded up? If you don't have something that people | :41:23. | :41:30. | |
can get involved in, you need a higher part of entry, if you like. | :41:30. | :41:34. | |
You need to have the sense to see each other's point of view, and | :41:34. | :41:39. | |
come up with a far better sustainable answer than sending any | :41:39. | :41:49. | |
:41:49. | :41:49. | ||
peers -- e-petitions about a pet subject. I groups like this one | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
made give decision-maker something to chew on. | :41:52. | :41:56. | |
Natasha, you chair the backbench committee that decides the fate of | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
e-petitions. Clearly people feel disappointed and let down that you | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
have failed to deliver and what you set out to do on this. And they are | :42:04. | :42:10. | |
right to. I have always voiced by concerns about them. The problem is | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
the government created the system then passed it to us to deal with. | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
We do not have any control over the system itself, which is the first | :42:17. | :42:25. | |
problem. Also, as you saw, it has raised people's expectations. The | :42:25. | :42:30. | |
Government states it says something will only be eligible for a debate, | :42:30. | :42:36. | |
but the expectation is that over 100,000 signatures, there will be a | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
debate, and a change in law. But that is not necessarily what | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
happens. Until we can get that across to people there will be no | :42:44. | :42:50. | |
faith in the system. Heather, the committee has a hard job satisfying | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
everyone, but where do you think the problem lies? It is with the | :42:54. | :43:00. | |
perception. Because it is not what is meant to be happening. It is | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
interesting of a group of backbenchers to appear before the | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
backbench committee to put your case to have the debate. It is very | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
exciting. I think those events should be broadcast. That should go | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
on the Parliamentary Channel, so the public get to see this. Do you | :43:15. | :43:21. | |
think that would engage the public? Absolutely. Is it three people with | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
a pet subject, or 30 people clamouring to have a debate? | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
there is a problem there, as we are a backbench business committee. | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
Backbenchers come to us and ask us for time to debate an issue that | :43:33. | :43:42. | |
they think is of importance. But with the positions, it is different, | :43:42. | :43:50. | |
it is about us listening to the public. And we need to make sure we | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
make this work because otherwise, the problem is not what we saw on | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
the film, sometimes it is worse than ever having had that in the | :43:58. | :44:05. | |
first place. Is it less likely to be debated if you do not think it | :44:05. | :44:12. | |
will get through? No, it is actually the opposite. We have | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
scheduled for debate almost every e-petitions that has reached | :44:15. | :44:22. | |
100,000 signatures. We saw the one for Hillsborough. But debating the | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
issue of bringing back hanging, corporal punishment, it is unlikely | :44:26. | :44:32. | |
the law were changed, so wide debate this? That is the sort of | :44:32. | :44:35. | |
petitions that have not reached 100,000 signatures, and I am | :44:35. | :44:41. | |
surprised they have not. What are we afraid of? I am very much | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
against capital punishment, but of people want that to be debated, we | :44:45. | :44:52. | |
should make it clear why we think that we do not agree with it. | :44:52. | :44:59. | |
have seen protest groups and camp set up in city centres, and maybe | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
the public think that is a more effective way of getting the | :45:03. | :45:08. | |
message across? They can see what the action will do, but in e- | :45:08. | :45:14. | |
petitions, it may get lost in the system. The thing I find so strange, | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
One Show have had all the passion and persuaded the backbench | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
committee to have a debate, you then get to the chamber, and unless | :45:21. | :45:31. | |
:45:31. | :45:37. | ||
it is something bid ed loses interest. That does not happen in | :45:37. | :45:46. | |
backbench debates. We have always had speech limits, which is what is | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
unusual about backbench debates. When we have debates and backbench | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
time, we are limited to a few minutes. And there are very few | :45:54. | :45:59. | |
days where you can do this? Yes, I made a big fuss about this, we | :45:59. | :46:05. | |
allocated a certain amount of time for backbench debates. The way that | :46:05. | :46:15. | |
:46:15. | :46:16. | ||
I would deal with it is, I would set up a dedicated the petition | :46:16. | :46:21. | |
system. If you look at the system in Scotland and Wales, you have a | :46:21. | :46:26. | |
dedicated petitions committee that works with people who want to set | :46:26. | :46:32. | |
up committees, and it manages their expectations. The real problem is | :46:32. | :46:39. | |
parliamentary time. It is a very precious thing. There is a review, | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
there are some bits and pieces in a house on Monday as well, and I | :46:43. | :46:48. | |
think it will be a very interesting discussion, to see how that works. | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
Thank you very much. Time for a round-up of other | :46:51. | :47:01. | |
:47:01. | :47:06. | ||
Seven year-old Anthony can rest easy after being told to take down | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
his powdered flag because it breached planning regulations. The | :47:11. | :47:16. | |
council now admits it over-reacted. Latest figures show another drop in | :47:16. | :47:21. | |
teenage pregnancies in Nottingham. 58, compared with 72 the year | :47:21. | :47:26. | |
before. The Labour MPs says it is further evidence that the city's | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
early intervention programme is working. | :47:30. | :47:35. | |
A Labour MP once more plain packages for cigarettes sold in the | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
European Union. She says it would make smoking less attractive to | :47:37. | :47:46. | |
young people. And also, giving people the right | :47:46. | :47:51. | |
to ask if their partner has a history of domestic violence. | :47:51. | :48:01. | |
:48:01. | :48:03. | ||
want us to follow that by looking at a specific offence on stocking, | :48:03. | :48:09. | |
-- stalking, and make sure we act on domestic violence across the | :48:09. | :48:18. | |
border. -- across the board are. | :48:18. | :48:27. | |
Will this make a difference? Most people who are found guilty of | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
hitting the partner do not have a history of domestic abuse. I think | :48:30. | :48:35. | |
it will work. We will have to wait to see how it works out, but it has | :48:35. | :48:39. | |
been needed for a long time, and the Government has listened, and I | :48:39. | :48:43. | |
am delighted. If the Government is committed to reducing domestic | :48:43. | :48:53. | |
:48:53. | :48:53. | ||
violence, how come it is cutting down on legal aid? And it is also | :48:53. | :48:57. | |
cuts to voluntary services that support women who have been victims | :48:57. | :49:04. | |
of domestic violence, and I think Refuge have said they are very | :49:04. | :49:09. | |
worried that this will focus attention elsewhere. It only gives | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
women the right to ask about the background, and it may be that they | :49:13. | :49:20. | |
do not have a recorded history of this. There is a complete | :49:20. | :49:27. | |
misunderstanding about the legal aid. It was never our intention to | :49:27. | :49:35. | |
cut legal aid for domestic violence, and we are not. Categorically not. | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
What I would like to see is a proper audit of all those services | :49:38. | :49:48. | |
that we have, provided for women suffering from domestic violence. | :49:48. | :49:51. | |
Refuge centres are closing hand over fist. There is a different way | :49:51. | :49:58. | |
of dealing with the Net -- domestic violence these days. I have a | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
domestic abuse refuge in my consistency, because I had it built | :50:02. | :50:07. | |
10 years ago. What we are actually doing, in the last year alone, we | :50:07. | :50:14. | |
have put in rooms in people's houses. There is a complete change | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
in how we can deal with this, and that is why this issue was a very | :50:19. | :50:27. | |
important to us. You talk about some of the measures in place in | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
your area, but is that enough? Clearly domestic violence is a huge | :50:31. | :50:37. | |
issue. And it is rising. And it gets worse during times of | :50:37. | :50:44. | |
recession. Every case is different. But all I am saying is we need to | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
have an audit of all the services for women, and I think that this | :50:49. | :50:59. | |
:50:59. | :51:00. | ||
law, I supported, but it is not a silver bullet. And jail terms of up | :51:00. | :51:06. | |
to five years? Does that go far enough? It does. Will it put people | :51:06. | :51:10. | |
off? Of course it will. You would not want to go to prison for five | :51:10. | :51:20. |