22/04/2012 Sunday Politics East Midlands


22/04/2012

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In the East Midlands: Are some GPs being unfair to women

:01:33.:01:36.

who want abortions? And is the Government going cold on

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1735 seconds

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the electrification of Midland Hello, I'm Marie Ashby with the

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talking points in the East Midlands. Our guests this week need little

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introduction. Former Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett is

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Labour MP for Derby South and Stephen Dorrell, Conservative MP

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for Charnwood, is chairman of the Health Select Committee.

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Coming up: East Midlands MPs combine forces to fight for Midland

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Mainline to be electrified. But is the Government going cold on the

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idea? And a reality check for the Lib Dems in one of our cities.

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First, an issue that always generates controversy - abortion.

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This week a Chesterfield surgery hit the headlines over a notice

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warning some of its doctors won't speak to patients about

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terminations or emergency contraception. So should GPs be

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free to exercise their conscience? Or are they overstepping the mark?

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Kate Smurthwaite from the Abortion Rights campaign is also with us.

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The surgery says the notice is there to save women the time and

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embarrassment of seeing a doctor who's not prepared to give them an

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abortion referral. What is the problem with that? People going

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into the surgery, it is shocking to see. You don't expect to see a sign

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of it says because of our religious backgrounds these other treatments

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you can and can't have had different doctors. There is

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something shocking about it. That said, we know that around the UK,

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around one in five doctors has an issue with termination and will not

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refer. We need to find some way that women can see doctors who are

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happy to give them the treatment they need. I am not 100 %

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comfortable of a sign in his surgery. I don't normally go into

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the doctors and explained my ailments to the receptionist. I

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wait for the privacy of a consultation room. Clearly, we need

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to let women know that if they are not going to get the treatment they

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want from one doctor, they can be referred. You can always ask for a

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female doctor or if you have a preference a witch doctor you see.

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That is useful. If I know there is a doctor that they think fair

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religious views are more important about my bodily autonomy, I don't

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want to see them about an ear infection even. Do you agree with

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Kate that the surgery is piling pressure on women who already have

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a difficult decision to make? have mixed feelings. It has always

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been the case that doctors have a right to say this is not something

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I personally am comfortable with. But they are not going to perform

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the abortion. Surely they should be able to give advice? Well, some

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people are not comfortable with that. Certainly, I'd take it Kate's

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point entirely, it is awkward for somebody. It would be particularly

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awkward to have that difficult conversation with a doctor who says,

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no, I want nothing to do with this. It is also a bit awkward to have to

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have this conversation with a receptionist. Maybe that is

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something that we ought to look out to try to ease that problem as much

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as possible, for both parties. is one thing that doctors might

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refuse to carry out abortions but surely they should not refuse to

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talk to a patient. I don't that -- I don't think that surgery is

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saying we refuse to talk. There are saying that if a patient has come

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in seeking a termination, it is probably in the interests of that

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patient as well ours of the doctor to avoid the circumstances. I think

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we're all agreeing that what we are looking for is a sympathetic way of

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ensuring that the necessary difficulty is avoided. Do you think

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doctors are taking their principles too far by refusing to see someone

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who wants abortion advice? It is a very long-standing convention, as I

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understand it. There has been an acceptance and understanding for a

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very long time. Put the question of the other way. If someone has a

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conscientious objection to being involved in terminations, is that

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the reason why somebody who otherwise has a commitment to a

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medical career should be denied the opportunity of using their skills

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for the benefit of the patients? are not just talking about

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abortions. Some doctors will not give a emergency contraception like

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the morning-after pill. Doesn't that lead more women down the line

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of thinking the only thing that is available to me is it an issue?

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it shouldn't lead to that conclusion. But it could.

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shouldn't if there is any kind of advice given. The reason the

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emergency termination... The medical termination using a police

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regarded by the doctor as a reason for conscientious objection, and

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they regard that as a form of abortion. What do you think? It is

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not a form of abortion. All the medical evidence suggests it

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doesn't cause an embryo that has implanted and was ever to be

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discharged. Pit-stops implantation and fertilisation, which is what

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happens when you don't get pregnant. -- it stops. That is a side issue.

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The issue is we have quite high levels of doctors at their who

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choose to exercise his conscientious objection. You are

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right, it's been around for something -- for a long time but

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that doesn't mean it is acceptable. For a long time we sent small boys

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up chimneys. It doesn't mean that was a good idea. It is difficult

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because it is a slippery slope. There are people out there who have

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religious objections to blood transfusions and those who think

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that those who have a smoking addiction shouldn't be entitled to

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treatment. We must not go down a road where people say I don't want

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to be involved with that. We have seen a slip from abortion to this

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thing about emergency contraception. Sooner or later, people will talk

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about contraception in the same way. We have to stamp it out now. Should

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things stay as they are? I don't accept the argument that this is a

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slippery slope and what next? The truth is, this is a discrete

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subject that has been much fought over and this is the conclusion

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that has been arrived at. Perhaps too discreet. Maybe we should

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discuss it more. I'd been easily defined. I don't think there is any

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evidence that the boundaries of the debate are being shifted. Thanks

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for joining us. Next: our MP's combined forces this

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week to press the government to electrify the Midland Mainline.

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They practically queued up to support a motion from Loughborough

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MP, Nicky Morgan. It is about unfairness. There is �12 billion

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being invested in railways and only �200 million being invested in the

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Midland Main Line. It is likely to grow by 800,000 over the next 20

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years also so there is clearly a demand for the service but there is

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also a huge economic benefit. Upgrade of the Midland Main Line

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would bring huge benefits to Leicester for example and also I

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imagine, Loughborough. independent report prepared for the

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councils and executive estimated that up grading and electrifying

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the Midland Main Line would generate �450 million worth of

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wider economic benefits in terms of higher business productivity. This

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of course includes the creation of hundreds of jobs through

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construction activities and the refurbishment works on the trains

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themselves, as well as encouraging more businesses to relocate and

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invest around the Midland Main Line the corridor as journey times

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reduced. While the business case for London mainline metrication

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does indeed look impressive -- Midland Main Line, there can be no

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doubt that the project would be complex and challenging and it

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would be an expensive one to deliver. Network Rail is -- has

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estimated that the capital cost of electrification would be �530

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million, not including the other improvements referred to in the

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debate. Major engineering work would be required, just to make

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room for the overhead wires. Over 50 bridges would have to be rebuilt.

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Not so long ago... Theresa Villiers accepted the case for improving the

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line. Now, looking at that, it looks like she is not so sure.

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all know that we live in very straitened circumstances of the

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burden of proof on people who are arguing, as we all are, the case

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for this investment has got somewhat more difficult because of

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the circumstance. There seemed to be a lot of yes but so. -- yes,

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buts... That figure covers the cost of the new bridges and the extra

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gauge. The question is whether this is an investment that delivers a

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return both in terms of the improved rail performance and in

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terms of wider economic performance. The answer is that it does. Do you

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get the feeling that she has already made up her mind? I cannot

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remember a time when every MP, the length of the Midland Main Line,

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didn't support electrification and I've never met an MP from that area

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:40:37.:40:40.

who could understand why it has ever gone ahead. I think Stephen is

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right. It is likely to be a question of money. The fact is, why

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has it never, in all these years, been a high priority project? A

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remember once being told, we were all told, that it was because there

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were a lot of business users on the Midland Main Line. You would think

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that would be a better reason for it to be done but somehow, it has

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never happened. I hope before I leave politics that it will happen.

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That is a challenge! It seems grossly unfair that according to

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Sir Alan Meale the East Midlands has received only �200 million of

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the �12 billion invested in rail networks. That is a way of looking

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at it. I prefer personally the approach that simply says, let's

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look at this as a discrete project. It delivers a return to rail users

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and a return to the wider economic benefit of their communities on the

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line. That by itself is an argument for doing it. It does seem that

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�500 million seems a small price to pay. It sounds ridiculous, �500

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million! But look what we get back from it is what people are saying.

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It's a big project, there is no question of that. If you look

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around the country of Investment taking place in Israel, in other

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parts of the country, it is very hard to understand why this has not

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been a higher priority. -- Investment taking place on the

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railway. You can see from the film you have shown, there were a number

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of East Midlands MPs present at that debate to express support.

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Margaret, myself, the majority of the East Midlands MPs have written

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to ministers and have made the case. That we will go on doing. Is it a

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:42:37.:42:38.

question of keeping on going? keeping nagging away!

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Next, in less than two weeks, voters in one of our cities will be

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heading for the polls. And it could mean the end for the only Tory, Lib

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Dem Coalition in the region. It may not have the chandeliers and

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mahogany furniture of the cabinet room in Number 10 but Derby's

:42:55.:42:58.

cabinet does have plenty in common with David Cameron's. There's one

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big difference though. While Ed Miliband has to put up with the

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status quo until 2015, in Derby, there are elections almost every

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year. And this time, power is in the balance. The manifestos for

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Derby may reveal something about the way each party is treating this

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election. This is the Conservatives won. It is 12 pages long. The Lib

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Dems manifesto is eight pages long. Labour's manifesto is one piece of

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paper. You can never take the election for granted. You need to

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get out on the doorstep, secured a promise of individuals to vote for

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you, make sure all polling day that they are going out and voting for

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you. The reason our manifesto is short is we want to over deliver

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and and a promise. A let's look at the numbers. To win outright

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control of the Council, you need 26 councillors. Labour are close to

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that magic number, they have got 22 at the moment. They tell me they

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are pretty confident of picking up at least before macro they need for

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a majority. Privately, the kiss it is think they will... They hope

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that Labour's gains will not come from them but for the Lib-Dems and

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said. The Lib Dems are the smallest party at the moment with 12

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councillors but they have to defend of those seats this year. If last

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year's results were repeated again this year, it could be a very bad

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fear for the did Dems. I think things have moved on a lot the last

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12 months. We've been out for the doors, telling people what they

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have been doing and everything is still to play for. We've got a

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couple of weeks to go. The signs are out there on the doorstep have

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been positive. Like their coalition partners, the Conservatives are

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keen to highlight the big regeneration projects they have

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invested in. But will this big- spending be enough to impress

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voters? What matters is stability and investors and businesses having

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confidence in the council administration. I think they have

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been reasonably confident and happy with the coalition administration

:44:58.:45:03.

as we've had it. From my point of view, I would prefer an all-out

:45:03.:45:13.
:45:13.:45:14.

Conservative administration. What of the smaller parties? Could they

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get their only George Galloway? They are putting up far more

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candidates between them than they have in any recent election.

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Council budgets will fall again next year of the year after. With

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the Conservatives and the Lib-Dems are promising a third council tax

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freeze on top. With so little wriggle room, you have to wonder

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whether being in charge of their local council right now as much fun.

:45:37.:45:42.

But local politics isn't the only game being played here. Unlike its

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neighbours, Derby is not being asked if it wants an elected mayor.

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It is not getting a local enterprise zone either. For a city

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that can sometimes feel like its football club is a championship

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side rather than a Premier League One, on 3rd May at least, Derby

:45:57.:46:01.

will be in the FA Cup final politically speaking. You can be

:46:01.:46:06.

sure if Labour win, Ed Miliband will hail it as the start of a

:46:06.:46:09.

winning streak. If the coalition can hold them off, you will hear

:46:09.:46:19.
:46:19.:46:21.

the cheers from Westminster all the way up the motorway.

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Well as Chris Doidge made clear, unlike Leicester and Nottingham who

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have elections every four years, Derby has three every four years. A

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recipe for greater democracy or instability? One for you to answer,

:46:30.:46:33.

Margaret. There are different views but I have always been in favour of

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the electorate having an opportunity every year to take some

:46:36.:46:39.

decisions and to influence what happens, instead of being stuck

:46:39.:46:43.

with one outcome over that whole period. What other benefit would

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there be to that system? It gives you a chance for people to reflect

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the mood of how things are going. For example, a few years ago, we

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had a group that were elected to lead the council who made various

:47:00.:47:04.

promises and which had gone within days, almost, of the local election.

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The following year, the electorate had a chance to respond. Having

:47:09.:47:12.

elections every year makes councillors more accountable,

:47:12.:47:17.

doesn't it? The other argument is that at a time when local elections

:47:17.:47:21.

are often driven by reactions to national events and opinion polls,

:47:21.:47:24.

it smooths out the effects of the swings around public opinion,

:47:24.:47:27.

around the performance of the national government. As Margaret

:47:27.:47:36.

says, there are views from both parties, all parties. I don't think

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there's any great appetite to go down this road. I think we would

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prefer a system which says that we have local elections every four

:47:44.:47:48.

years and in the interim years, we have the county elections.

:47:48.:47:53.

don't fancy having a general election every year for example!

:47:53.:47:56.

There was a time in the 17th century when there was a strong

:47:56.:48:00.

argument for that but we didn't adopt it. Have we moved on from

:48:00.:48:04.

them? The other side of the coin, Margaret, is that if councils have

:48:04.:48:08.

to worry about elections every year, are they not much less likely to

:48:08.:48:11.

make tough decisions which would make themselves unpopular with the

:48:11.:48:15.

electorate? I don't think that it necessarily follows. Councillors

:48:15.:48:19.

who are looking to the long-term interests of the place they are

:48:19.:48:24.

elected to help to run the will be prepared to take those decisions,

:48:24.:48:29.

and have, from time to time. What it does mean is that they are

:48:29.:48:32.

perhaps a bit more responsive to the electorate than they would

:48:32.:48:39.

otherwise be. And that has to be a good thing. Of course it is a good

:48:39.:48:42.

thing that councillors are responsive to the electorate. I

:48:42.:48:45.

don't think you necessarily have to have annual elections to focus the

:48:45.:48:48.

minds of elected officials on the fact that one day they will face

:48:48.:48:58.
:48:58.:49:00.

the voters in the ballot box. Just time to update you on some of

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the other stories making the news in the East Midlands this week in

:49:04.:49:07.

Sixty Seconds, with Our Political Editor John Hess.

:49:07.:49:10.

The GMB Union is holding meetings with BMI over the number of jobs

:49:10.:49:13.

under threat as a result of the proposed takeover by British

:49:13.:49:15.

Airways.The union estimates three hundred jobs could go at BMI's

:49:16.:49:18.

headquarters and more than a hundred and fifty in its

:49:18.:49:23.

maintenance hangars at East Midlands Airport. Angry

:49:23.:49:25.

demonstrators made their presence felt at a meeting of Derbyshire

:49:25.:49:28.

County Council.They were protesting against cuts which they claim would

:49:28.:49:30.

decimate youth services.The council wants charities and other groups to

:49:30.:49:37.

get involved. It'll review its policy next month. David Parsons

:49:37.:49:41.

wins confidence vote. The leader of the Conservative majority in

:49:41.:49:43.

Leicestershire, David Parsons, has survived a no confidence motion

:49:43.:49:46.

brought by Labour and Lib Dem councillors. He's currently being

:49:46.:49:53.

investigated over his expenses claims. Finally, VAT on warm

:49:53.:49:59.

pasties is something of a hot potato for the Government. Now

:49:59.:50:02.

Leicester South MP, Jon Ashworth, wants assurances that we won't be

:50:02.:50:12.
:50:12.:50:18.

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