15/04/2012 Sunday Politics East Midlands

At this is East Midlands Today false start it is the Budget that

keeps on giving but not in a good way. How much damage is being done

Why should it thousands of East Midlands families at lose tax

credits when millionaires get off so lightly? And why should they

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1730 seconds

Hello, I am Marie Ashby. With me, the Conservative MP for Sherwood,

Mark Spencer, and Jon Ashworth, Labour MP for Leicester South.

Later, sleeping four to a bed, the plight of refugees and asylum-

seekers and the volunteers determined to provide them with

homes fit to live in. Plus the council that threaten to

evict Arthur Martin from his allotment.

First, from this week, thousands of families in the East Midlands have

lost up to �80 in tax credits. Over a year, many stand to lose nearly

�4,000. At the same time, the Chancellor says he is shocked to

discover some of the richest people are paying only 10% in income tax.

How can the coalition still pretend we are all in this together, Mark

Spencer? We have got to get as much tax as we can out of the rich. The

truth is, it is very difficult. Some of these companies and

individuals are very good at moving the goalposts to avoid paying tax.

As a government, we have got to find a system which ties them down

and makes sure they pay the right amount. They have got to stop

people avoiding it? I agree. But let us revisit what is happening.

68,000 families across the East Midlands are losing out. 3500 in

Leicester, one doesn't 500 in show would. I was talking to a mum of

took in Mark's constituency. She is losing �500 a year and yet if you

are a millionaire in show what you are getting a �40,000 tax cut. That

is not right. You must be hearing similar stories? It takes some

explaining. The reality is that it is very difficult to tie some of

these very rich people down. We need to find a system that does it

and stops is people avoiding paying the tax. Sometimes, the best way to

do that is simplify the tax system and make it more simple soap when

they make more money they pay more tax. Why is it fair that if you are

a millionaire, the Tuzla has given the way for �2,000 tax cut. -- the

Chancellor. -- has given you a �40,000 tax cut. To be fair, we

have lifted the tax threshold pretty high, over �9,000, so that

hard-working families pay less tax. I recognise some of the Commons Jon

is making but the reality is it is about getting as much tax... David

Cameron says that in seven years the amount we spend on tax credits

has increased from �18 billion to a �30 billion a year. He is saying it

is out of control. At the last general election, it David Cameron

said families on �50,000 would not get tax credits. He has cut it back

to �26,000. You will now be better off on the minimum wage claiming

tax credits but but but you would be better off on the dole. You do

not want people to think they are better off on benefits. We do not

want people to think that. Some of the anomalies as we go through the

process of changing it takes some changing. We are going in the right

direction but there is more work to be done. Is expecting couples to

work a total of three days a week between them unreasonable?

Working Tax Credits are there to help mums particularly moving to

work. We as the government are increasing the number of hours you

need to work to claim the tax credits... You are forcing women

out of work. We know the economy is in the doldrums. The labour market

is tight. I was in Morrisons the other week in my constituency

talking to people about this. People are worried that they will

not be able to increase their hours. We will have a crazy situation

where you are better off to be on the dole. The they are worried

about feeding their families. We are worried about the Gulf getting

bigger between the haves and the have-nots. People are now stealing

to feed themselves, we have had. That is terrible. We have got to

make the system fair for everyone. At the moment, there are a number

of anomalies. If you have a partner, you may be asked to work more

hours... The work is not always there in reality. Absolutely. That

is where we are out in the economic cycle. We are doing as much as we

can to improve the economy so that jobs are created. We inherited

frankly this poisoned chalice. us not go back to what you

inherited. Leave it there for the moment. With so many people

struggling to get by, it is harder to mobilise support for people like

refugees and asylum-seekers. Volunteers in one of our cities are

so angry about the conditions many have to live in they have decided

to do something about it. These volunteers are on a mission

to sort out the squalid conditions some asylum-seekers and refugees

find themselves in. They are doing an inventory of properties across

Nottingham. They are gathering evidence on their housing

conditions. I have seen holes in ceilings, gaps in walls, damp. All

of which are not conducive to healthy living. Rhino and her --

Rose and her five children live in this rooms. She is not able to

claim benefits and nor is she able to work. There is overcrowding,

there is a fungus affecting our health. The house is very cold. I

can't afford to pay for the gas. Welcome. Zarif travelled from

Afghanistan to start a life peer. He has been homeless since arriving

five years ago. This is my house. That is your stuff? Yes. I feel so

sad because everyone has a nice house and a nice job. I would love

to have a family and I would love to have a wife. I would love to do

a job. By and 21 years old. I have a lot of times. What we want to do

is do a quality piece of research into destitution to be able to

quantified and identify where people are saying. We also want

taxpayers to get value for money in the accommodation provided by the

state. Local authorities estimate that in Nottingham there are about

400 asylum-seekers. In Derby, just under 300. In Leicester, around 450.

Councillors at Nottingham City Council have told me they

wholeheartedly support the work the citizens are doing. We were told no

one was available to be interviewed today. Helping asylum-seekers and

refugees at a time when local people are struggling to get by is

something politicians often struggle to justify. Citizens of a

Century plans to publish findings by June. -- citizens of The century.

It is all our responsibility in civil society to expose what is

going on and ask politicians to be accountable for the part they play.

I am keen that we own our communities and what happens in

them and I think that is what is called the Big Society. For these

asylum-seekers, it does not matter what it is called. They just need

help. It is not a normal life that a woman of my age... I feel so sad

and so tired. Sometimes I cried because of the situation. We live

in the shadow. We live like a rat underground. Alain Joeb has joined

us, a refugee from the Cameroons. First, I want to find out where our

MPs stand on this. The volunteers are disgusted that we do so little

to help asylum-seekers. Do you agree with them? I think I do on

balance. Asylum-seekers should be treated with dignity. I think the

border agency has got to deal with what is known as legacy cases

quickly and fairly. They have not been doing that. Under my own

government, we were not doing it quickly enough although going back

20 years or 15 years we were never doing it quickly enough. We have

got to get legacy cases sorted out. I see it in my constituency all the

time. By using more of it? I am seeing people not getting their

responses and quick responses. -- are using more of it? It happened

under John Major government, under the current government, under my

government. To give you a quick example, I recently met some young

men, 18, 19, in my constituency from Afghanistan. They came here

when they were 10 years old. They have still not been told what their

status as. That is not fair. Absolutely. When you see the way

that some of these asylum-seekers are having to live, do you accept

we have to do more? It is about getting the balance right. There

does not seem to be any balance. They have to live in a cave, for

example. A we are taking quite a few of these asylum-seekers... We

cannot be the refugees home of the world. We need to do our share but

we have just spent 10 minutes talking about the challenges facing

hard working UK families. We have got to look after them as well.

they come first? We need to do our fair share and at the moment it

feels as though the proportions are tipping the long way. What happens?

Does somebody like Zarif... Does he have to keep living in a cave?

has travelled from Afghanistan and travelled through lots of other

modern countries like France, Germany, Belgium. Why did he end up

in the UK having travelled through all of those countries? He may say,

why shouldn't he? We need to do our bit. We have to look after our own.

The let us hear Alain Joeb's story. You fled prosecution in the

Cameroon and it took you 10 years to get refugee status. Can you

describe to me how you survived during that period? It was terrible.

I fled Cameroon in 2000 after I was caught up in politics between the

government in place on the opposition. I was locked up, beaten

terribly. The charity in London identified 68 scars over my body.

They recorded that I was systematically abused. When I came

to make the application, there was total disbelief. For 10 years, I

lost my wife for years ago... Until today, I cannot visit my wife

because there was no resources for me available. I was not allowed to

work for 10 years. I was not allowed to use my skills. They

vanished within the 10 years. I remember receiving something...

That is how you have had to live? I cannot imagine what that must have

been light. But now you have your own business. You have got a food

stall in the Victoria Centre in Nottingham. How is that working

out? I hear it it is popular. Exciting. I am grateful to the

resilience of the local people in Nottingham. They have been

extremely supportive. They really helped me out. My work within the

local community has been valuable and I am really happy today. Some

people would say you have been lucky to find the right help. What

we do say to Mark Spencer when he says that the situation is that we

have to look after our own people first? I think Mark will accept

that we cannot tolerate a family of four sleeping in one single bed. We

cannot tolerate a young man where they he has come from to be

sleeping in a cemetery where the dead people are. Something needs to

change. The government has a duty of care to everyone who finds

themselves here. They need to provide for these people the basic

things for them to survive. heard earlier in the film saying

that politicians are generally reluctant to speak out in support

of asylum-seekers. When you hear what is happening, do we not have

to be a bit braver and say, he is right. They deserve a better life.

We should be able to help them, no matter what our own problems are.

would say that politicians should always talk about the issues they

believe in and should not try and cut their words for what they think

would be most popular with the public. I know some politicians do

that. I do not think Mark does that actually. I don't think I do that.

This man has come here and he is running a small business and

contributing to the Nottingham economy. I could take you down to

lots of small businesses in Leicester where people have come

here and saw refugee status and have been granted it and are now

running small businesses. But there are other people... Look at Zarif

living in his cave, surviving, barely surviving on �10 a month.

That is from the charity. That is all he gets. He is desperate to

work. Shouldn't we let him work? have also got a UK residents in the

same circumstances who are homeless and find themselves in desperate

circumstances. We need to make our fair share -- do our fair share,

help these people, whether they come from in the world. But we can

only do so many. Other nations need to step up as well and help us out.

It is about getting the proportion right. It comes back to this point

I made at the start. That young man's status needs to be resolved

as quickly as possible. If the border Agency and the authorities

decide he should not have refugee status, they should remove him from

the country in the fairest way and with dignity. That is the issue is

a start you would agree that these things need to be moved on more

quickly. 10 years was far too long in your case. You had to endure

terrible things in that time. need certainly to speed up. It is

not our duty to move somebody on let somebody's day. In Nottingham

and in the United Kingdom... As a citizen, my concern is for human

beings being treated fairly and humanely. You will accept that we

cannot tolerate that a family of four is in a single bed. That is

not the kind of society we want to live in. Or indeed a young man

sleeping in the cemetery. That should be shock us. We appreciate

already that the representative in the Midlands are supporting our

commission in addressing the issue and finding a solution. But more

has to be done? More has to be done. Time now for our round-up. Here is

With the news that Dutch company is planning to take over rally,

Nottingham North MP is calling for the world-famous company to move

back to his home city. In its heyday, it employed 8000 workers.

Their report to Derbyshire County Council recommends its main

opposition leader should get thousands of pounds more in

allowances. But current Labour leader says she has no intention of

claiming any more than she does now. Lib Dem MEP has been elected a full

member of a new European Parliament committee on organised crime. It

plans tougher action on corruption and human trafficking.

Finally, Eastwood Town Council has reversed a decision to evict

pensioner Arthur Martin from his allotment after a public outcry

against claims that he is not fit enough to work it. We are going to

move on from this. We have learnt from it. We are going to work

together, this council. What do you think of that last

story? Eastwood Council has climbed down now but only after protesters

accused them of over-reacting. think they lost the plot, frankly!

There are some things that politicians should get involved in

and some that they shouldn't. We should encourage in -- be

encouraging people to get out and keep fit. Did they lose the plot,

Jon? Yes, I think they did. I am jealous that I did not think of

that line! It was clearly a barmy decision from Eastwood Town Council.

They said he had a dodgy hip then they tried to make out that they

were doing it in his best interests. Terribly patronising. What did you

think of that? It is patronising. I am glad they have climbed down on

us. We want people garden in on their allotments. It is good for

your health. This is another result of Big Society and shows the power

of the other a lot when holders. is symptomatic of how we have ended

up looking at the state to interfere and make these nanny

state decisions. We need to let people live their own lives.

shows that ordinary people have more power than the they think.

That is good news was that back could be interesting in the run-up

to the local elections! Thank you both what joining me. -- thank you