21/10/2012 Sunday Politics East Midlands


Andrew Neil and Marie Ashby with the latest political news, interviews and debate including Home Secretary Theresa May on the plans for new Police and Crime Commissioners.

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In the East Midlands: More bobbies on the beat is that


what you want? And with no Lib Dem candidates, who


will pick up the floating votes in the Police and Crime Commissioner


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2284 seconds


In the East Midlands: More bobbies on the beat is that


what you want? Register and then there are enough on the streets and


I would like to see more on the roads. They spend a lot of time in


their cars. I don't think the police are accessible to people in


their own homes. And with no Lib Dem candidates for


Police and Crime Commissioners, who'll pick up their votes?


I'm Marie Ashby. This week I'll be attempting to keep the peace with


two MPs who are no strangers to law and order. Ken Clarke QC, the


Conservative MP for Rushcliffe and until recently Justice Secretary.


And in our London studio Keith Vaz, Labour MP for Leicester East, and


chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee.


Welcome. First, let me come to you Ken Clarke. You're mentioned in a


story today about Jimmy Saville. The Sunday Telegraph says you were


in charge of health when he was appointed to a task force at


Broadmoor. Were you aware of any of the allegations against him at the


time? I don't think anybody wants until


all of these stories about gossip in the BBC. I do recall being


involved in the appointment. He had been working abroad will for some


years apparent. It was at that time regarded as the public celebrity, a


national hero, a man did untold charitable work. Until two months


ago no politician or journalist would have dared to tackle Jimmy


Savile. I may have been told about it but I really cannot remember.


You had nothing to do with the appointment? I honestly cannot


remember. It was not significant enough to stick in my mind. The


papers today are talking about Edwina Currie and I don't know what


she can remember. At the time it would not have created any interest.


He had been done to Broadmoor for years and a stock that did not mind


in having access and keys. 99% of the public thought he was a public


figure doing charitable work. We will get back to the police and


crime Commission elections. The Government says the role is all


about accountability and making the police more efficient, isn't that a


good way of doing it? Well, as you know, the Labour Party was against


the election of police and crime commissioners. We are where we are


an election will take place. What we need to do now is make sure we


get a good set of people elected to these very important posts. They


are going to be appointed chief constable, they are going to be


dealing with the kind of complaints you have had on a programme as part


of the package we have listened to. It is really important that we get


there to turn up -- turnout up because I think the turnout will be


alone. We will talk about an hour later. We must make sure everyone


participates and they get the budget they need and they do their


jobs well. That is what we need to do now because if we sit on the


sidelines and carp, it will not help the process of getting...


must get involved, that is what you are saying? Absolutely. Theresa May


says this is an exciting time for Policing but she Constable's was so


it is very difficult. How can we afford the expensive elections?


is never a good time for the country but it is accelerating


worth one reforms about public services. We are talking about more


than �7 million just to hold the elections in in the East Midlands.


You cannot just abandon public involvement in the police service


for what is actually rather a small portion of the total budget for


these things. We are reforming the police and others. It is no good


just carrying on pouring money into work. We have staggering numbers of


police man. Ever since we had the police in this country, ever since


Sir Robert Peel, we happily donate it to the police force, community


police, neighbourhood involvement. This is the most practical way of


strengthening at and it enables people with an adequate interest of


public affairs to start to give their views. So, these elections


are happening and everybody needs to get involved.


The Police and Crime Commissioner elections are taking place across


the whole country. But what are the issues that matter here in the East


Midlands? And what are the political questions still to be


answered in our region? Our Political Editor, John Hess, has


been been brushing up his detective skills to find out.


This is the forensic labs at the University of Derby. This is where


students learn all the CSI know how. We may need some forensic skills


when it gets to next month's elections. To start with there is


something with it. There is no mystery that there are no Liberal


Democrat candidates standing in the East Midlands except for


Northamptonshire. What will happen to all the Liberal Democrat voters?


Let us take a closer look. In the last general election the Liberal


Democrat share of the vote in the East Midlands was over 21%. In


these elections the two main parties will be desperate to get


that Liberal-Democrat coating boat -- floating vote. David Cameron has


got his fingerprints and his footprint all over these elections.


It is his big idea. He says it will make the police far more


accountable and transparent. The big issue in this campaign is


whether politics and Policing actually make for a good fit. A


number of independents are standing. Could it be their breakthrough


moment? These elections could end up at a missing person inquiry.


There is real concern about the impact of the stay away both to her.


-- voter. In Nottingham the mayoral referendum turnout was 23%. The AV


referenda had turnout no more than 42% and both Poles were held on a


warm and sunny day in her early May, not in the cold and dark of mid-


November. Paul Holmes, you were a Liberal-


Democrat MP for Chesterfield, who will the Liberal Democrat voters be


opting for, what would be your advice? There is an assumption they


will opt for anybody. The Liberal Democrats have opposed these


elected commissioners and we think it is a bad system. I use saying


that they should not vote at all? It I don't vote in this election it


will be the first time since I was 18 and I really don't know what I


will do it. I may will spoil my ballot paper and send it back. It


is pathetic that we need these demagogues running police forces


and politicising the system. I argued against it when it has in


parliament and I am against it now. I would be against 41 people with


no interest in public services. I owe think people should take the


trouble to find out what the candidates are saying and take the


opportunity to have a lame and who they can hold to account for the


things about Policing which are not just the rest of particular


criminals and prosecution. You cannot just reject the whole thing


because the old police have parities were unknown to the


general public. None of my constituents know of who is on the


police authority and most people don't even know what the police


authority is. This is an attempt to get reform subject to democratic


with Bonn's ability. Key, are you prepared to pick up


the floating voters? Absolutely. I am astonished that Paul says he


will spoil his ballot paper. There is an election for a very important


post and I think people ought to vote and participate. Can I pick up


one. That Ken mentioned about the cost. This will cost �70 million


owed rule and that would have meant, if it had not been spent on these


elections, 3,000 extra police officers. I am not against what the


Government is suggesting and my select committee have produced a


number of reports on this. We need to look at a new landscape of


Policing but what we actually need is to look at what we won police


officers to do. We need a Royal Commission to look at the purpose


of policing and this really ought to have happened before we had


these elections because people need to deal what 21st century policing


is all about. The way in which Policing has changed in the last


few years has been pretty dramatic about thing that is what we need to


do. It is going to cost an awful lot of money, more than �7 million


just here in the East Midlands, when you could be using that money


to have more officers on the streets. If you abandoned a general


election the government would have more money to spend on sales are


rising bus fares or something. If you are banned and local government


elections the chief executive would have more money to spend a housing


benefit. Less, if we are going to have cut let you buy up democratic


accountability! The timing might not be right. Then I mean will --


the timing will never be right. We have got to have modern policing.


They are the last great unreformed public service, -- the last great


unreformed public service. People have strong views. The police are


ordinary systems -- citizens, involved in a local communities and


it is time we got on with the elections. What has not happened is


we have not had proper consultation with the Police Federation and some


of those senior police officers. We have got the best police service in


the world as Theresa May keeps reminding us. We should be


consulting with them before we go on and try and have a completely


new plan. There has been a lot of consultation with the Police


Federation. When the police and crime Bill was going through


Parliament in 2009 which had extensive evidence from G


Constable's, the Police Federation and all sorts of things there has


been all sorts of consultation. This is going to be a total flop,


the public are not interested, the Government were not prepared to pay


for the democratic election properly so why hold it? Keat is


right in saying people -- Keat is not right in telling everyone


should vote but if it is a flawed election people should protest.


Boris Johnson interfered in what was happening in London in the


police and announced there was nothing in it. Do we want 41 Police


officers interfering with justice? All the evidence is that the public


want independent candidates so that party politics does not regain.


Labour candidates are standing on the understanding that they will


fight the cuts. That is a very important issue. Of course we are


going to have up to 20% cuts in front line services. What the


police and crime Commission is going to have to do under the law


is they are going to have to set their budgets. They will have to


appoint the chief constable. Of course the police and crime


commissioner is going to have to take a view on whether or not


central government gives him or her enough resources in order to fight


crime. Looking at the Budget that most of the local police forces are


going to have, we are going to have to have a continuation of those


cuts because we do not have enough money to for the will frontline


services. This is very important. How can you ensure that party


politics does not creeping to this post? According to the Home Office


it is not a political party post or representing any one section of the


electorate. Whoever gets the job have to swear an oath of


impartiality. How can you ensure party politics will not creeping?


They will certainly not be allowed to be partisan in exercising their


powers. The electorate will pick up and knock about party politics.


Because it is a different election people who think seriously about it


will not necessarily vote their first party political loyalty. The


more corny Labour candidates will just say let's Spencer more money


on it, surely we can borrow it from somewhere. That will not maximise


the Labour vote amongst intelligent voters.


So who will you be voting for? As November 15th approaches, we'll be


bringing you an identity parade of the candidates across the East


Midlands. Starting with the line up There are four candidates in


There are four candidates in Nottinghamshire. Paddy Tipping is


standing for Labour. He is a former MP for Sherwood and has been a


Nottingham county councillor. He is promising to oppose the government


cuts to the police force. 150 more officers on the beat and 100 more


police community support officers. . I lived in Nottinghamshire for 40


years. My family lives the and I have done a lot of things in


neighbourhood politics with the council and with Parliament and I


am still doing a lot of things now and I'm the only candidate who is


My nine years of leadership in the Sherwood District Council, I gave


that up last month, they have proved him as invaluable in the


running of a major organisation. In particular a major organisation


I have the advantage to say to the people that your policies will be


dealt with locally because the policeman is not allowed to be a


member of any political party. Why should the commission or the M&M of


a political party? I believe that if you become a member of the


political party, if you win, particular person will be erected


I believe that my depth of knowledge of the police service


over many years will give me a good bearing as to what can be done to


improve efficiency and effectiveness. They are the


candidates in Nottinghamshire but what could they do have they got


into power? According to the Office of National Statistics,


Nottinghamshire is the most crime- ridden country at -- County in East


Midlands. How can much-changed? level of crime has been falling


steadily in Nottinghamshire in recent years. People have various


states of being about crime in their locality. In Cotgrave people


feel quite strongly about anti- social behaviour and juvenile


delinquency. It really have a problem that. How will the


Commission have any impact on that? The chief constable will be


accountable to him for the way in which the chief constable decides


he can tackle that. In the end he will have to decide the priority of


what he can do about it but in the case of Cotgrave there was a very


effective police initiative probably in response to political


requests from me and the councillors and other people there.


Across the whole county I think it is a good idea for people to be


accountable and for sensible people to express their sense of


priorities and what they think needs to be done in a community.


there a danger that by listening to what the public sector priorities


are, the commissioner would make a knee-jerk reactions to headline-


grabbing crimes? I think that is why it is very important that we


have a clear understanding between the chief constable and


commissioner as to their duties and responsibilities. The select


committee suggested a sign in effect a Magna Carta on the day


after the commissioner is elected so that everyone is very clear on


where their responsibilities and duties blarney. Where the


responsibilities of the chief constable will be it. It is very


important that we leave operational matters entirely to the police and


the chief constable. What I hope the crime commissioner can do is to


be the sounding-board for the public. Let us ask the public, we


have some of them here. We asked the the bling Cotgrave in Ken


Clarke's constituency, where they thought police resources should be


because. I would like to see more on the streets. That is generally.


I don't think there was enough on the streets. I would like to see


more on the roads. They should tackle the bad drivers. I see are


not a police but they spend a lot of time in their cars. I think they


would find more criminals if they walked around. I would like to see


more people on the street. I know we have cameras here but I think, I


don't think the police are accessible to people in their own


homes, if you like. Real concerns there from real people in Cotgrave.


They are voters in their patch and they say they want to see more


bobbies on the beach but there is not money for a. Every opinion poll


that I have seen in the last 40 years has that same request of


wanting to see more bobbies on the beat. That is an operational matter


what proportion of their police force they can have strolling about


at any particular time. If people say that to the commissioner, isn't


that what we should see on the streets? A visible presence for


police is extremely important. Of course they should be people to be


seen patrolling every now and again but I am sure the chief constable


will explain you cannot have all of your pleas walking round the


streets and a serious criminals in cars. People want a rapid response


was a myth serious happens. Ken was a very distinguished Home Secretary


so he knows all about the issue of disability. People want visibility


and these will be the issues that the crime commissioners are going


to have to deal with. When this election takes place it will be


fascinating to see how things develop over the last four years.


It is not an excuse for people are not voting. People should go out


and but because it is the opportunity do influence what is


Andrew Neil and Marie Ashby with the latest political news, interviews and debate including Home Secretary Theresa May on the Government's plans for new Police and Crime Commissioners in England and Wales.

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