21/10/2012 Sunday Politics East Midlands


21/10/2012

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In the East Midlands: More bobbies on the beat is that

:01:38.:01:41.

what you want? And with no Lib Dem candidates, who

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will pick up the floating votes in the Police and Crime Commissioner

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2284 seconds

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In the East Midlands: More bobbies on the beat is that

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what you want? Register and then there are enough on the streets and

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I would like to see more on the roads. They spend a lot of time in

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their cars. I don't think the police are accessible to people in

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their own homes. And with no Lib Dem candidates for

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Police and Crime Commissioners, who'll pick up their votes?

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I'm Marie Ashby. This week I'll be attempting to keep the peace with

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two MPs who are no strangers to law and order. Ken Clarke QC, the

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Conservative MP for Rushcliffe and until recently Justice Secretary.

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And in our London studio Keith Vaz, Labour MP for Leicester East, and

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chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee.

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Welcome. First, let me come to you Ken Clarke. You're mentioned in a

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story today about Jimmy Saville. The Sunday Telegraph says you were

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in charge of health when he was appointed to a task force at

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Broadmoor. Were you aware of any of the allegations against him at the

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time? I don't think anybody wants until

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all of these stories about gossip in the BBC. I do recall being

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involved in the appointment. He had been working abroad will for some

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years apparent. It was at that time regarded as the public celebrity, a

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national hero, a man did untold charitable work. Until two months

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ago no politician or journalist would have dared to tackle Jimmy

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Savile. I may have been told about it but I really cannot remember.

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You had nothing to do with the appointment? I honestly cannot

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remember. It was not significant enough to stick in my mind. The

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papers today are talking about Edwina Currie and I don't know what

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she can remember. At the time it would not have created any interest.

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He had been done to Broadmoor for years and a stock that did not mind

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in having access and keys. 99% of the public thought he was a public

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figure doing charitable work. We will get back to the police and

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crime Commission elections. The Government says the role is all

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about accountability and making the police more efficient, isn't that a

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good way of doing it? Well, as you know, the Labour Party was against

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the election of police and crime commissioners. We are where we are

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an election will take place. What we need to do now is make sure we

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get a good set of people elected to these very important posts. They

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are going to be appointed chief constable, they are going to be

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dealing with the kind of complaints you have had on a programme as part

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of the package we have listened to. It is really important that we get

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there to turn up -- turnout up because I think the turnout will be

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alone. We will talk about an hour later. We must make sure everyone

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participates and they get the budget they need and they do their

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jobs well. That is what we need to do now because if we sit on the

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sidelines and carp, it will not help the process of getting...

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must get involved, that is what you are saying? Absolutely. Theresa May

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says this is an exciting time for Policing but she Constable's was so

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it is very difficult. How can we afford the expensive elections?

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is never a good time for the country but it is accelerating

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worth one reforms about public services. We are talking about more

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than �7 million just to hold the elections in in the East Midlands.

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You cannot just abandon public involvement in the police service

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for what is actually rather a small portion of the total budget for

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these things. We are reforming the police and others. It is no good

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just carrying on pouring money into work. We have staggering numbers of

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police man. Ever since we had the police in this country, ever since

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Sir Robert Peel, we happily donate it to the police force, community

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police, neighbourhood involvement. This is the most practical way of

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strengthening at and it enables people with an adequate interest of

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public affairs to start to give their views. So, these elections

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are happening and everybody needs to get involved.

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The Police and Crime Commissioner elections are taking place across

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the whole country. But what are the issues that matter here in the East

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Midlands? And what are the political questions still to be

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answered in our region? Our Political Editor, John Hess, has

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been been brushing up his detective skills to find out.

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This is the forensic labs at the University of Derby. This is where

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students learn all the CSI know how. We may need some forensic skills

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when it gets to next month's elections. To start with there is

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something with it. There is no mystery that there are no Liberal

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Democrat candidates standing in the East Midlands except for

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Northamptonshire. What will happen to all the Liberal Democrat voters?

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Let us take a closer look. In the last general election the Liberal

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Democrat share of the vote in the East Midlands was over 21%. In

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these elections the two main parties will be desperate to get

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that Liberal-Democrat coating boat -- floating vote. David Cameron has

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got his fingerprints and his footprint all over these elections.

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It is his big idea. He says it will make the police far more

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accountable and transparent. The big issue in this campaign is

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whether politics and Policing actually make for a good fit. A

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number of independents are standing. Could it be their breakthrough

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moment? These elections could end up at a missing person inquiry.

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There is real concern about the impact of the stay away both to her.

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:45:56.:45:56.

-- voter. In Nottingham the mayoral referendum turnout was 23%. The AV

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referenda had turnout no more than 42% and both Poles were held on a

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warm and sunny day in her early May, not in the cold and dark of mid-

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November. Paul Holmes, you were a Liberal-

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Democrat MP for Chesterfield, who will the Liberal Democrat voters be

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opting for, what would be your advice? There is an assumption they

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will opt for anybody. The Liberal Democrats have opposed these

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elected commissioners and we think it is a bad system. I use saying

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that they should not vote at all? It I don't vote in this election it

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will be the first time since I was 18 and I really don't know what I

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will do it. I may will spoil my ballot paper and send it back. It

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is pathetic that we need these demagogues running police forces

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and politicising the system. I argued against it when it has in

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parliament and I am against it now. I would be against 41 people with

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no interest in public services. I owe think people should take the

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trouble to find out what the candidates are saying and take the

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opportunity to have a lame and who they can hold to account for the

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things about Policing which are not just the rest of particular

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criminals and prosecution. You cannot just reject the whole thing

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because the old police have parities were unknown to the

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general public. None of my constituents know of who is on the

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police authority and most people don't even know what the police

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authority is. This is an attempt to get reform subject to democratic

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with Bonn's ability. Key, are you prepared to pick up

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the floating voters? Absolutely. I am astonished that Paul says he

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will spoil his ballot paper. There is an election for a very important

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post and I think people ought to vote and participate. Can I pick up

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one. That Ken mentioned about the cost. This will cost �70 million

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owed rule and that would have meant, if it had not been spent on these

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elections, 3,000 extra police officers. I am not against what the

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Government is suggesting and my select committee have produced a

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number of reports on this. We need to look at a new landscape of

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Policing but what we actually need is to look at what we won police

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officers to do. We need a Royal Commission to look at the purpose

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of policing and this really ought to have happened before we had

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these elections because people need to deal what 21st century policing

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is all about. The way in which Policing has changed in the last

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few years has been pretty dramatic about thing that is what we need to

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do. It is going to cost an awful lot of money, more than �7 million

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just here in the East Midlands, when you could be using that money

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to have more officers on the streets. If you abandoned a general

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election the government would have more money to spend on sales are

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rising bus fares or something. If you are banned and local government

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elections the chief executive would have more money to spend a housing

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benefit. Less, if we are going to have cut let you buy up democratic

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accountability! The timing might not be right. Then I mean will --

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the timing will never be right. We have got to have modern policing.

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They are the last great unreformed public service, -- the last great

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unreformed public service. People have strong views. The police are

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ordinary systems -- citizens, involved in a local communities and

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it is time we got on with the elections. What has not happened is

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we have not had proper consultation with the Police Federation and some

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of those senior police officers. We have got the best police service in

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the world as Theresa May keeps reminding us. We should be

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consulting with them before we go on and try and have a completely

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new plan. There has been a lot of consultation with the Police

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Federation. When the police and crime Bill was going through

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Parliament in 2009 which had extensive evidence from G

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Constable's, the Police Federation and all sorts of things there has

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been all sorts of consultation. This is going to be a total flop,

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the public are not interested, the Government were not prepared to pay

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for the democratic election properly so why hold it? Keat is

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right in saying people -- Keat is not right in telling everyone

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should vote but if it is a flawed election people should protest.

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Boris Johnson interfered in what was happening in London in the

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police and announced there was nothing in it. Do we want 41 Police

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officers interfering with justice? All the evidence is that the public

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want independent candidates so that party politics does not regain.

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Labour candidates are standing on the understanding that they will

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fight the cuts. That is a very important issue. Of course we are

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going to have up to 20% cuts in front line services. What the

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police and crime Commission is going to have to do under the law

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is they are going to have to set their budgets. They will have to

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appoint the chief constable. Of course the police and crime

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commissioner is going to have to take a view on whether or not

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central government gives him or her enough resources in order to fight

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crime. Looking at the Budget that most of the local police forces are

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going to have, we are going to have to have a continuation of those

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cuts because we do not have enough money to for the will frontline

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services. This is very important. How can you ensure that party

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politics does not creeping to this post? According to the Home Office

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it is not a political party post or representing any one section of the

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electorate. Whoever gets the job have to swear an oath of

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impartiality. How can you ensure party politics will not creeping?

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They will certainly not be allowed to be partisan in exercising their

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powers. The electorate will pick up and knock about party politics.

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Because it is a different election people who think seriously about it

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will not necessarily vote their first party political loyalty. The

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more corny Labour candidates will just say let's Spencer more money

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on it, surely we can borrow it from somewhere. That will not maximise

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the Labour vote amongst intelligent voters.

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So who will you be voting for? As November 15th approaches, we'll be

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bringing you an identity parade of the candidates across the East

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:52:50.:52:50.

Midlands. Starting with the line up There are four candidates in

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There are four candidates in Nottinghamshire. Paddy Tipping is

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standing for Labour. He is a former MP for Sherwood and has been a

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Nottingham county councillor. He is promising to oppose the government

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cuts to the police force. 150 more officers on the beat and 100 more

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police community support officers. . I lived in Nottinghamshire for 40

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years. My family lives the and I have done a lot of things in

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neighbourhood politics with the council and with Parliament and I

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am still doing a lot of things now and I'm the only candidate who is

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My nine years of leadership in the Sherwood District Council, I gave

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that up last month, they have proved him as invaluable in the

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running of a major organisation. In particular a major organisation

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:54:17.:54:42.

I have the advantage to say to the people that your policies will be

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dealt with locally because the policeman is not allowed to be a

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member of any political party. Why should the commission or the M&M of

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a political party? I believe that if you become a member of the

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political party, if you win, particular person will be erected

:55:02.:55:12.
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I believe that my depth of knowledge of the police service

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over many years will give me a good bearing as to what can be done to

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improve efficiency and effectiveness. They are the

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candidates in Nottinghamshire but what could they do have they got

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into power? According to the Office of National Statistics,

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Nottinghamshire is the most crime- ridden country at -- County in East

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Midlands. How can much-changed? level of crime has been falling

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steadily in Nottinghamshire in recent years. People have various

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states of being about crime in their locality. In Cotgrave people

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feel quite strongly about anti- social behaviour and juvenile

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delinquency. It really have a problem that. How will the

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Commission have any impact on that? The chief constable will be

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accountable to him for the way in which the chief constable decides

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he can tackle that. In the end he will have to decide the priority of

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what he can do about it but in the case of Cotgrave there was a very

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effective police initiative probably in response to political

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requests from me and the councillors and other people there.

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Across the whole county I think it is a good idea for people to be

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accountable and for sensible people to express their sense of

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priorities and what they think needs to be done in a community.

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there a danger that by listening to what the public sector priorities

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are, the commissioner would make a knee-jerk reactions to headline-

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grabbing crimes? I think that is why it is very important that we

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have a clear understanding between the chief constable and

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commissioner as to their duties and responsibilities. The select

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committee suggested a sign in effect a Magna Carta on the day

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after the commissioner is elected so that everyone is very clear on

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where their responsibilities and duties blarney. Where the

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responsibilities of the chief constable will be it. It is very

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important that we leave operational matters entirely to the police and

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the chief constable. What I hope the crime commissioner can do is to

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be the sounding-board for the public. Let us ask the public, we

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have some of them here. We asked the the bling Cotgrave in Ken

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Clarke's constituency, where they thought police resources should be

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because. I would like to see more on the streets. That is generally.

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I don't think there was enough on the streets. I would like to see

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more on the roads. They should tackle the bad drivers. I see are

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not a police but they spend a lot of time in their cars. I think they

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would find more criminals if they walked around. I would like to see

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more people on the street. I know we have cameras here but I think, I

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don't think the police are accessible to people in their own

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homes, if you like. Real concerns there from real people in Cotgrave.

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They are voters in their patch and they say they want to see more

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bobbies on the beach but there is not money for a. Every opinion poll

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that I have seen in the last 40 years has that same request of

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wanting to see more bobbies on the beat. That is an operational matter

:58:47.:58:49.

what proportion of their police force they can have strolling about

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at any particular time. If people say that to the commissioner, isn't

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that what we should see on the streets? A visible presence for

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police is extremely important. Of course they should be people to be

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seen patrolling every now and again but I am sure the chief constable

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will explain you cannot have all of your pleas walking round the

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streets and a serious criminals in cars. People want a rapid response

:59:14.:59:18.

was a myth serious happens. Ken was a very distinguished Home Secretary

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so he knows all about the issue of disability. People want visibility

:59:21.:59:24.

and these will be the issues that the crime commissioners are going

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to have to deal with. When this election takes place it will be

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fascinating to see how things develop over the last four years.

:59:35.:59:39.

It is not an excuse for people are not voting. People should go out

:59:40.:59:43.

and but because it is the opportunity do influence what is

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