13/10/2013 Sunday Politics East Midlands


13/10/2013

Andrew Neil and Marie Ashby are joined by the new Scottish secretary, Alistair Carmichael, Ken Clarke, Chris Huhne and Labour MP Diane Abbott.


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Morning, welcome to the veritable pot pourri that is this morning's

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Sunday Politics. We have Alastair Charmichael. We'll ask him what he

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has that his predecessor Michael Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps

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going on and on and on. He'll bang his drum for Europe.

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Free of the shackles of Government, former Energy Secretary Chris Huhne

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will be with us. We'll ask him for the inside scoop.

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And in the East Midlands, in Black Diane

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And in the East Midlands, in Black History Month we look at the

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community that feels let down by politicians. And we've got the local

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winners and losers in the reshuffles.

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says we've misunderstood the problem of human trafficking and that men

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are the forgotten victims. And

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are the forgotten victims. pundits who we try to shuffle out of

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a job but failed miserably, Mick watt, Miranda Green Andijan an

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Ganesh. They'll Tweet like mad as if Is Ed Miliband's Labour Party moving

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chid owe Cabinet reshuffle was seen a a shift to the lot of. Two have

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announced policy changes which could Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves

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says Labour will be tougher on the Tories. While Tristram Hunt says

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Labour loves Tory-style free schools after all. Here he is on the BBC

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viewers. If you are a group of parents, social entrepreneurs,

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viewers. If you are a group of teachers, interested in setting

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viewers. If you are a group of school in areas where you need new

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school place, the Labour Government will be on your side. That's free

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enterprise and innovation. It will will be on your side. That's free

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be in areas of need. We have a school places crisis going on. It

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teachers in these schools. And accountability. What is going on

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with the Al Madina school is because of terrible mistakes with Michael

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changed, the change of tone is I'm not sure if the policies have

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changed, the change of tone is remarkable, both on welfare and

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changed, the change of tone is schools. A significant change of

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reshuffle on the Labour frontbench last week was init wered as a purge

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of Blair rights. It seemed to be a purge of anti-reform thinking.

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Rachel Reeves was not saying anythi different on substance but saying

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Labour will be tough than the Tories on welfare. You've seen that clip

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from Tristram, free schools will be allowed to be set up in areas of

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need. Greater oversight. But a completely different change of tone,

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we are on the side of parents and social entrepreneurs who want to set

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these up. A different change. Why are they doing this? On education,

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polarised. You've had the Michael department. This weekend, we've

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polarised. You've had the Michael leaked memos from one of Michael

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Gove's advisers which are extreme views about the state of education.

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And on the other side teaching unions. It hasn't led to a healthy

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debate which represents what parents want out of schools or employers.

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This is a huge move from the Labour Party to sound more reasonable.

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This is a huge move from the Labour have been silent on education which

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is a huge policy area on the left. Is this a focus group-driven change?

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They've seen the polls. Welfare reforms are hugery popular and free

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changing the policy substantially. I always thought a test for this

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Labour reshuffle was not whether Ed Miliband would promote Blair rights,

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it is clear he did, it is whether they would be allowed to be Blair

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rights. When Stephen Twigg carried the education portfolio it was clear

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his own views were closer to the Government than he was allowed to

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let on. He was constrained. There is no point of giving Tristram Hunt

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this job if he is not allowed to say what he thinks. I wouldn't mind

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betting privately he thinks free schools should be available beyond

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just areas of need. He hasn't yet defined need. It could be, we've run

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schools are so bad we need schools. If that is it, it is the same Asics

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itsing Government policy. In they unsatisfactory that's no different.

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He wanted to say he was in favour of higher educational standards and

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rigour, he had to tell the audience he has a Cambridge PhD to attack

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Michael Gove. That was difficult for Tristram Hunt he had to mention

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that. Is that worth something, a PhD from Cambridge? Obviously to him it

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is. He said they would demand proper teaching qualifications. That could

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teaching? Independent schools do not have to have teachers with formal

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teaching qualifications. I've never been to one? What about you? That

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decision by Michael Gove to allow free schools to employ nonunionised

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and non-trained people, so he has to Watch this space. The dust settled

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after the party resufficients. Do the Tories look a bit more like

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Britain. Do the Tories look more #4 With reshuffles, you're never

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really certain. There's whispers, rumours, guesses. But the only way

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to know it is underway is keeping beady eyes on a front door. Up until

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now, the only way we knew who was in and who was out was who came walking

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down this bit of Downing Street and who was out was who came walking

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a smile on their face after going to see the boss. The once who are to be

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sacked, they usually go round the back. Not this time. No, something

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new alerted us all. The-PM started can't remember a triple decker

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reshuffle where you've three parties changing ministerial teams at the

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resufficient happened on Twitter. Not that the press stopped watching

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the door as well. News was a bit Charmichael replaced Michael Moore,

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the first to be pounced on. I'm disappointed to be leaving office

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now but pleased at what I've been able to achieve in the last couple

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of years. Not as pleased as one imagines as the man receiving the

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welcome that went on, and on and simultaneously having Jeremy Browne,

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in a sense seen off the premises of the Home Office in conspiracy to let

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# Blowing hi Jude through a traffic Democrats. We tend to think they are

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herbivorous. Sacking a Cabinet Minister, another minister, Jeremy

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Browne. By lunch time, the Tory ranks were shifting too. The PM

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Browne. By lunch time, the Tory to boost the numbers of telegenic

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women walking into Government and turning perceptions around. He

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tipped a so-called flatcap to men backgrounds with room for some which

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fitted neither label but are friends of George Osborne. And, all the

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while, those new Tory ministers of George Osborne. And, all the

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learning of Labour's changes. Labour too knows the value of new young

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blood striding into the limelight. Again some with TV experience of

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that. Tristram Hunt and Gloria de peer row would be hard to describe

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as hard left. But Blairbrushing peer row would be hard to describe

:09:42.:09:47.

past out of the picture seemed to be the name of the day. Liam Byrne

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With Diane Abbott also gone, was this really a Blair right cull? It

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depends what you mean. Blair right used to mean someone who wanted

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depends what you mean. Blair right Blair to be leader of the Labour

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Party. Somebody who worked closely with him. Now it means sometimes

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people who believe in a certain with him. Now it means sometimes

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of ideologyies or ideas. There are still very much those kind of Blair

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rights within the party. But we still very much those kind of Blair

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seeing the group around Tony Blair are not long assassin flew enjoys as

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they once were. By evening, it was over. New bees were sharing the

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ministers quietly thanked commits raters. Or -- commiserators. Or

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ministers quietly thanked commits disified. How much much someone

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standing here might want it to be the case, you are unlikely to get

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someone coming out of that do going "how could." And running off crying!

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And the brand, spanking new Scottish Secretary Alastair Charmichael joins

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us from Orkney on a line that hasn't been used since the fleet was used

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in the outbreak of World War I! I wasn't around at the time. I'm

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hearing you loud and clear. Why wasn't around at the time. I'm

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you agreed to run a department? wasn't around at the time. I'm

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you wanted to abolish six years wasn't around at the time. I'm

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Hello? Maybe our connections are not Charmichael. Can you hear me? I

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Hello? Maybe our connections are not hear you now. There was a nasty

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second there where you disappeared. Let me try the question again. Why

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have you agreed to run a department you wanted to abolish six years

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have you agreed to run a department Because this is the, probably one of

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the most important jobs in British politics at the moment. To ensure

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that Scotland remains part of the UK. Even when I was talking about

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the reconfiguration of rep sen Taigs of Scotland -- representation of

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Scotland within Whitehall, there was always a job to be done. That is

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true in spades now. I will focus on making sure the UK Government has a

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real voice in that debate. What making sure the UK Government has a

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you that Michael Moore didn't have? Look, I think Michael Moore did

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you that Michael Moore didn't have? excellent job. The work he did

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delivering the Edinburgh agreement clear legal and decisive referendum,

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the work delivering extra powers to substantial piece of work. I'm not

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friend of mine. I will say that substantial piece of work. I'm not

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we go forward into this, this is now about the actual debate itself.

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we go forward into this, this is now will be putting the case, with some

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passion, I hope, for Scotland to just some abstract debate about

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nationhood, sovereignty, this is a their livelihoods, the cost of their

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mortgage. That and an awful lot challenge. I understand that. But if

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you're being put in there to save the union, every pole has the no --

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poll has the no campaign margin alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing

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pretty well to save the union. I suspect you've been given the job to

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Scotland? And lieu, you misread suspect you've been given the job to

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situation if you -- Andrew, you misread the situation new think

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anybody is going to be the person who will save the union. The people

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who will save the union are the people of Scotland if they turn

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who will save the union are the next year and vote to save the

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union. We have to put the case for that. That is what I will be doing.

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Look at the position of your own party. You came fourth in the last

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Scottish parentry elections. You were even behind the Conservatives.

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The latest poll has you still in fourth. Are you there because you're

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a bruiser and you will pep up the Liberal Democrats opportunity in

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Scotland. If I had a pound for everybody to referred to me as being

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Scotland. If I had a pound for a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be

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sitting here this morning. I could a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be

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have retired by now. The truth of this, if I can address it once and

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for all, I have done probably one of the most complex and subtle jobs in

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three-and-a-half years, Liberal Democrat Chief Whip in a Coalition

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survived in that job a week, let alone three-and-a-half years, if I

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was the sort of person who went around picking unnecessary fights.

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So, can we just please forget about this business about being a bruiser.

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As far as the position of the party in the polls, this is true also

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As far as the position of the party the referendum vote, opinion polls

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are a snapshot. They are not a prediction of what will happen in

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the future. I will be out there putting the case. Neither the next

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election nor the referendum is one or lost yet. One of the things I

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really want to be guarding against because we are a good margin ahead

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today, 12 months out from the actual polling day, that it is in the bag.

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Believe me, Andrew, it is not. As you know, wasn't for the Liberal

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Democrats. Not just talking about the polls. You came fourth in the

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You said you were happy to facial ex-Salmond in a TV debade. Should

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David Cameron face him? I am happy debate. Should David Cameron face

:16:02.:16:14.

him? No, because that allows Alex Nationalists to portray this as

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him? No, because that allows Alex sort of contest or choice between a

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vision of Scottish social democracy and English conservativism, which it

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is not. This is a debate that has to is not. This is a debate that has to

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be held in Scotland about the future of Scotland amongst Scots. David

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Cameron has a very important part in Scotland's public life, but he is

:16:37.:16:42.

not Scottish and I think he will accept Commies edit himself in fact,

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the person who should be debating Darling. He has got a Scottish name

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wealthiest of Scotland at some stage the campaign to keep the union

:16:56.:17:07.

together as lacking passion, were you referring to the campaign or

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referring to Alistair Darling. I think what I was saying is that

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referring to Alistair Darling. I we move into this new stage, and

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Alistair Darling said it himself, we are now campaigning for people

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Alistair Darling said it himself, we hearts because if you look at the

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range of papers the Government has published, it is pretty clear the

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arguments lie in relation to the head. I am not giving up the battle

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for the hearts and Scotland because there is a good strong case, as

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somebody who is proud to be Scottish and to be British, for Scotland

:17:57.:18:02.

somebody who is proud to be Scottish remain part of the UK. You come

:18:02.:18:08.

somebody who is proud to be Scottish distilleries and I understand you

:18:08.:18:14.

celebratory drink for your new post. Not a drop has touched my lips.

:18:14.:18:20.

celebratory drink for your new post. supporting local business! I will be

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making up for lost time on the supporting local business! I will be

:18:21.:18:26.

of November, I will be doing it supporting local business! I will be

:18:26.:18:28.

aid of Macmillan Cancer care and if website, they can donate. It is

:18:28.:18:35.

worthwhile. I cannot think of a better cause. One Cabinet minister

:18:35.:18:38.

who many thought might get Reef better cause. One Cabinet minister

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Clarke. Welcome to Sunday Politics. This reshuffle was about new blood,

:18:50.:18:53.

minorities, where did you fit in? I minorities, where did you fit in? I

:18:53.:19:02.

would describe myself as the elder statesman, to be polite, but it

:19:02.:19:08.

would describe myself as the elder difficult to replace them. I enjoy

:19:08.:19:10.

it. It is a great privilege to have a role in Cabinet and I will carry

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on as long as David wants me to a role in Cabinet and I will carry

:19:13.:19:18.

I have seen many reshuffles, they are dreadful and I seem to have

:19:18.:19:26.

Cameron talk to you before this have had expected a phone call,

:19:26.:19:37.

asking, how do you think about stepping down, but he didn't and my

:19:37.:19:47.

role is one of giving my wit and wisdom to the Cabinet and meetings

:19:47.:19:51.

of the Security Council so he has got to put up with me a bit longer.

:19:51.:19:56.

You said you are going to stand again at the next election, why

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You said you are going to stand you keep going? What do you hope to

:20:02.:20:05.

achieve in politics? I am mostly a political anorak, I have been since

:20:05.:20:10.

I was very small, by the process of politics but the older I get I get

:20:10.:20:16.

governance of the country and at the moment the combination of problems

:20:16.:20:20.

is quite appalling. The difficulty of tackling the modern world is

:20:20.:20:24.

is quite appalling. The difficulty difficult and I find it fascinating.

:20:25.:20:28.

The old argument that attracts every decent person into politics, you

:20:28.:20:29.

might be able sometimes to make decent person into politics, you

:20:29.:20:34.

bit of difference, and I try to decent person into politics, you

:20:34.:20:37.

that. I try not to hark back on decent person into politics, you

:20:37.:20:39.

experience but we will have a lot of tough problems which I think the

:20:39.:20:43.

Conservative Government will have to tackle. You opposed referenda on

:20:43.:20:50.

Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty, you were even against one on Britain

:20:50.:20:56.

adopting the euro. It must follow that you are against the referenda

:20:56.:21:03.

on Britain's membership to the EU? I accountable to the long-term and

:21:03.:21:12.

representatives, but this is a minority now and my colleagues have

:21:12.:21:18.

firmly decided a referendum needs to be held to settle the question of

:21:18.:21:23.

Britain's relationship with the European Union which I think is

:21:23.:21:27.

Britain's relationship with the of the most important things in

:21:27.:21:31.

Britain's place in the modern world politicians are able to look after

:21:31.:21:37.

the living standards, the economy, the safety against terrorism. Last

:21:37.:21:44.

the living standards, the economy, summer you said that only extreme

:21:44.:21:48.

nationalists wanted a silly EU referendum. It follows your party

:21:48.:21:57.

nationalists. The people who are desperate to have a referendum are

:21:57.:22:02.

all the people who actually want to referendum will involve the public

:22:02.:22:08.

and people like me have got to get across to the public, don't just

:22:08.:22:11.

feel angry about the last thing across to the public, don't just

:22:11.:22:16.

commission is or is not doing, do commission is or is not doing, do

:22:16.:22:21.

bear in mind this is our base in the modern world. We happen to be a

:22:21.:22:28.

leading member, almost as valuable and rich as the Americans, from

:22:28.:22:35.

influence in events. That is not just how the politicians get on

:22:35.:22:40.

influence in events. That is not politicians look after us when we

:22:40.:22:47.

spilling over from the Middle East, or we face public services being

:22:47.:22:51.

threatened. You didn't even turn up to vote for the bill which will

:22:51.:22:59.

threatened. You didn't even turn up engagements on the Friday concerned.

:23:00.:23:03.

It seemed to get through without my participation. You didn't want to be

:23:03.:23:06.

seen voting for something your heart Look, many of your colleagues I

:23:06.:23:16.

seen voting for something your heart interviewed say that if the choice

:23:16.:23:23.

was between the state -- the status quo with the European Union and

:23:23.:23:28.

leaving, they would leave. The truth is that you would vote to stay in

:23:28.:23:32.

even on the status quo, wouldn't supporting the EU to leave now if I

:23:32.:23:40.

got chance. I think our economy supporting the EU to leave now if I

:23:40.:23:45.

investment, as in Washington last been if we were outside the EU.

:23:45.:23:54.

investment, as in Washington last week. We are trying to roll forward

:23:54.:24:01.

the prospect of free trade and I have to reassure Americans that

:24:01.:24:04.

the prospect of free trade and I are not likely to leave the EU to

:24:04.:24:09.

That is true but it also needs reform. The cry for reform, which is

:24:09.:24:14.

particularly Germany, is a good reform. The cry for reform, which is

:24:14.:24:22.

Even if David Cameron came back reform. The cry for reform, which is

:24:22.:24:24.

nothing from Brussels, you would still vote to stay in, correct?

:24:24.:24:33.

one which is dwindling in comparison with others, in the modern world it

:24:33.:24:39.

would be dangerous. I also think the dangers of the Middle East and the

:24:39.:24:43.

dangers of some of the countries disengage. I will take that as a

:24:43.:24:53.

strengthen the case, and of some members of the public don't agree

:24:53.:25:00.

persuaded when David delivers his reforms. The latest poll gives

:25:00.:25:06.

Labour a ten point lead over the Tories and the reason why it has a

:25:06.:25:10.

ten point lead is because UKIP are up there with 18% of the vote and

:25:10.:25:14.

ten point lead is because UKIP are the Tory vote has slumped in the

:25:14.:25:19.

Paul to 27%. How would you see off UKIP? By saying you need a strong

:25:19.:25:25.

Paul to 27%. How would you see off and effective Government. We faced

:25:25.:25:30.

terrible problems. Every Government I have been in has been behind in

:25:30.:25:35.

the polls. This Government is not as popular as the previous Government I

:25:35.:25:40.

have served in under the three previous prime ministers. When you

:25:40.:25:42.

get an election, people have to previous prime ministers. When you

:25:42.:25:45.

themselves who do we want to decide the issues of war and peace in this

:25:45.:25:52.

country? Who do we want to get us out of our economic problems. I

:25:52.:25:58.

don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. That generalised stuff will not

:25:58.:26:03.

don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. off UKIP. People will not listen to

:26:03.:26:07.

that. When people answer an opinion poll, they tell you how annoyed

:26:07.:26:11.

that. When people answer an opinion are by something that has recently

:26:11.:26:16.

upset them, but people are more sensible than this. Every Government

:26:16.:26:20.

I have served in has been behind in the polls. At a general election you

:26:20.:26:27.

have to mobilise the public to start thinking, who do we want to govern

:26:27.:26:36.

us? They did take over a calamitous important problems to be decided

:26:36.:26:44.

going forward. UKIP represents anti-immigration, anti-foreigners,

:26:44.:26:48.

anti-Europe, anti-politics but I don't think it will get 18% of the

:26:48.:26:51.

Thank you. Once upon a time, a politician whose career ended in

:26:51.:27:25.

disgrace might choose to lie low for a while, perhaps to spend a bit

:27:25.:27:28.

disgrace might choose to lie low for time tending the tulips and doing

:27:28.:27:30.

the odd bit of charity work. Not Chris Huhne. He walked free from

:27:30.:27:31.

prison only five months ago but Chris Huhne. He walked free from

:27:31.:27:34.

former Energy Secretary is already back in the public eye - a column in

:27:34.:27:38.

the Guardian, a job with a renewable interview. So is he working on a

:27:38.:27:42.

political rehabilitation? Chris Politics. The answer to that is

:27:42.:27:46.

clearly know, and thank you for inviting me back. You have set your

:27:46.:27:49.

career in politics is over so what does the future hold for you? I

:27:49.:27:54.

career in politics is over so what happy doing what I am doing, I am

:27:54.:27:57.

passionate about green energy and climate change, so I am doing things

:27:57.:28:02.

on that front in terms of business non-governmental organisations,

:28:02.:28:08.

on that front in terms of business I am doing a column for the Guardian

:28:08.:28:08.

on Mondays. You obviously get a I am doing a column for the Guardian

:28:08.:28:13.

of material from the Sunday Politics to write about. Have you embarked on

:28:13.:28:20.

political rehabilitation? It was clear from the point of view of

:28:20.:28:24.

political rehabilitation? It was George when I was sentenced, he

:28:24.:28:28.

rehabilitating you, because I had not offended for ten years, it was

:28:28.:28:32.

actually about stopping people like you, Andrew, Ron doing the same

:28:32.:28:38.

thing. It was a deterrent effect for the public. That is I think why

:28:38.:28:44.

thing. It was a deterrent effect for prosecution was brought. I had not

:28:44.:28:46.

offended for ten years on this, rehabilitate yourself in the public?

:28:46.:29:17.

coalition to the bitter end? Or should they re-establish their own

:29:17.:29:22.

Coalition agreement is for the whole Parliament, and the Lib Dems are

:29:23.:29:29.

going to stay, and should stay. What would be a good result for the Lib

:29:29.:29:32.

Dems in 2015? The loss of ten, would be a good result for the Lib

:29:32.:29:40.

interesting election because I think you will have essentially three

:29:40.:29:45.

party leaders, all of whom are negative ratings so it will be a

:29:45.:29:54.

battle between the walking wounded. In those circumstances, in my view,

:29:54.:30:00.

the Lib Dems can come out very well. But you will lose seats, won't

:30:00.:30:11.

the Liberal Democrats do badly in next year's European elections,

:30:11.:30:16.

the Liberal Democrats do badly in could come fourth on fifth behind

:30:16.:30:20.

the Greens. Will Nick Clegg's leadership be in jeopardy? I've been

:30:20.:30:25.

in countless cycles where we've had very low poll ratings. The normal

:30:25.:30:32.

pickup to the subsequent general election on average has been 10

:30:32.:30:37.

percentage points. So he's not in jeopardy? I think Nick will be there

:30:37.:30:41.

at the next general election. I think he'll lead the party into the

:30:41.:30:44.

next general election. I expect we'll do much better than most

:30:44.:30:51.

people think. If we are heading for another hung Parliament, which is

:30:51.:30:53.

what the Liberal Democrats want. Let's be honest, you'd rather be in

:30:53.:30:58.

coalition with the Labour Party than have a repeat of the Conservatives?

:30:58.:31:02.

One of the key things I sawed to colleagues, whatever your personal

:31:02.:31:07.

preference, I used to be a Labour Party member, you can derive from

:31:07.:31:12.

that I'm on the left of centre of the party. I always said to my

:31:12.:31:18.

colleagues in the party, it is absolutely

:31:18.:31:19.

colleagues in the party, it is the we are in politics because we

:31:19.:31:22.

are Liberal Democrats, not because we are either Conservatives or

:31:22.:31:25.

second best Labour. If you don't take that view, you don't have any

:31:25.:31:31.

bargaining position when it comes to coalition. You have to be able,

:31:31.:31:34.

bargaining position when it comes to genuinely, to do a coalition with

:31:34.:31:37.

either of the other parties. I understand that, but you'd prefer

:31:37.:31:41.

Labour? Your personal preference really should not come into this. It

:31:41.:31:45.

is about making sure you get the best possible deal for the things

:31:45.:31:50.

that your voters have voted for. If you get that with one party rather

:31:50.:31:55.

than another, that's fine. You stand up for Liberal Democrat values, not

:31:55.:31:59.

for Conservative or Labour second best values. You said you're keeping

:31:59.:32:04.

up your interest in energy matters. Is Ed Miliband right to promise a

:32:04.:32:11.

temporary price freeze? There's been pop ewe louse posturing. It is not a

:32:11.:32:17.

sensible policy. It was tried in California in 2,000 and 2001 which

:32:17.:32:22.

led to blackouts. We had the Prime Minister promising we should sift

:32:22.:32:27.

everybody automatically to the lowest possible tariff. So

:32:27.:32:31.

unfortunately we're at the stage in the political cycle where we are

:32:31.:32:37.

getting clap trap. You're against the freeze? It is a bad idea when we

:32:37.:32:42.

are trying to encourage investment. When the market can give us some of

:32:42.:32:46.

the lowest gas and electricity prices in Europe. Britain has

:32:46.:32:50.

son-in-law of the lowest? Not our base price? The other European Ian

:32:50.:32:53.

prices are only higher because they put a lot more taxes on to it? Our

:32:53.:32:58.

base energy prices are among the highest in Europe? No, if you look

:32:58.:33:03.

at EU comparisons in what goes out to people's households. That's after

:33:03.:33:05.

all the taxes have been put on them? to people's households. That's after

:33:05.:33:10.

. The Conservatives are claiming there are

:33:10.:33:13.

and these tactics were plain wrong. That is all we have time for. Back

:33:13.:58:12.

to Andrew. That is all we have time for. Back

:58:12.:58:22.

ministerial team this week with That is all we have time for. Back

:58:22.:58:26.

commentators calling it the purge of the Blairites, but one poor lamb who

:58:26.:58:30.

fell victim to this perch was Diane Abbott, not somebody who worshipped

:58:31.:58:36.

at the altar of Tony Blair. Life on the backbenches means she can pursue

:58:36.:58:40.

other interests such as attending the Cheltenham literary Festival,

:58:40.:58:47.

and where she joins us now. Welcome. Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

:58:47.:58:51.

think the thing that did it for Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

:58:51.:58:58.

was me coming out on Syria. This was Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

:58:58.:59:04.

a purge of the Blairites, how did you become collateral damage? I

:59:04.:59:09.

a purge of the Blairites, how did no idea but the fact that I was

:59:09.:59:11.

a purge of the Blairites, how did one member of the front bench to go

:59:11.:59:14.

public about my concerns on Syria probably tipped my enemies in the

:59:14.:59:21.

party machinery over the edge. But he went your way on Syria, in the

:59:21.:59:25.

end he agreed with your line on Syria so why would that be for

:59:25.:59:32.

dismissal? I agree with you - you're fired. Because I actually spoke

:59:32.:59:36.

dismissal? I agree with you - you're and it was the fact that I spoke up,

:59:36.:59:39.

which was like a pebble falling and it was the fact that I spoke up,

:59:39.:59:48.

forest or something. I am glad I spoke up on Syria. He doesn't like

:59:48.:59:55.

people around them than who are outspoken, who speak their minds? I

:59:55.:00:11.

think he's convinced he needs people who read from the scripts. People

:00:11.:00:14.

increasingly upset that even though who read from the scripts. People

:00:14.:00:20.

I was speaking party policy, I was reading from the script. Since Mr

:00:20.:00:27.

Miliband bid you farewell, you've said he's doing his best. Is his

:00:27.:00:33.

best good enough? I am sure it will be. I've always said the Labour

:00:33.:00:38.

Party chose the right Miliband. be. I've always said the Labour

:00:38.:00:43.

will remain loyal to him on the backbenches. You're going to be

:00:43.:00:49.

loyal? However, I want to join in the debate. You're going to be

:00:49.:00:54.

loyal? Absolutely. I was loyal both in public and private when others

:00:54.:00:58.

were bitching about him behind the from the backbenches, I hope to

:00:58.:01:04.

were bitching about him behind the involved in the debate particularly

:01:04.:01:07.

around nick policy. Et's see how loyal you are. You must be happy

:01:07.:01:11.

with all this new tough talk on welfare and free schools? Well,

:01:11.:01:19.

with all this new tough talk on think both Rachel and Tristram are

:01:19.:01:23.

very talented. We're going to have to see how this all plays out. The

:01:23.:01:27.

issue of free schools, they are to see how this all plays out. The

:01:28.:01:32.

thing. But diminishing the role to see how this all plays out. The

:01:32.:01:34.

local authorities is another. There need strong local authorities. I'm

:01:34.:01:42.

local authorities is another. There sure Tristram will be aware of that.

:01:42.:01:44.

As for welfare, I'm sure Rachel knows some of the cuts the Tories

:01:44.:01:49.

have made have been counter prod ublingtive in -- productive in terms

:01:50.:01:55.

of spending. You wouldn't call that your full-hearted endorsement, would

:01:55.:01:57.

you? What are you on, and lieu? your full-hearted endorsement, would

:01:57.:02:05.

haven't seen the detail of Rachel's new position. You have to wait and

:02:05.:02:10.

see the detail. It is in the papers. You haven't stopped reading the

:02:10.:02:14.

papers. It was the Observer. When will you announce you're running for

:02:14.:02:20.

Mayor of London? I have no plans to announce that I'm running for Mayor

:02:20.:02:25.

Mayor of London? I have no plans to of London. No plans. That's what

:02:25.:02:25.

Michael his I will Tyne used to of London. No plans. That's what

:02:25.:02:29.

me. He had no plans to run against Margaret Thatcher. Are these the

:02:29.:02:34.

same kind of plans you have? I know. No, no. I have no plans. You know

:02:34.:02:41.

going for it. Everybody knows you're going for it. Just fess up to your

:02:41.:02:51.

old mate! ! I have no plans to run. If you did run, who would be, what

:02:51.:02:57.

would be your biggest threat other than yourself? I think there's a lot

:02:57.:03:06.

of very talented candidates, David They are all talented. I would have

:03:06.:03:15.

to weigh up the field. What do you think your chances would be of

:03:15.:03:19.

getting the taxi drivers' vote? Well, you know, Andrew, some of

:03:20.:03:27.

getting the taxi drivers' vote? most loyal viewers of This Week

:03:27.:03:31.

getting the taxi drivers' vote? were taxi drivers and their wives.

:03:31.:03:34.

I'm not frightened of reaching out to middle England. You will find if

:03:34.:03:38.

you walk around London sub usual ya, they all know me and they all love

:03:38.:03:45.

This Week. Love This Week. I thought you were going to say they all love

:03:45.:03:49.

you. One person who loves you, is Michael Portillo. He wasn't a happy

:03:49.:03:54.

chappie on Thursday night. You can't see it but you can hear. This is

:03:54.:04:00.

what he said. I was disappointed for her. She had decided to leave this

:04:00.:04:06.

something else in politics. She wanted to do something serious.

:04:06.:04:11.

something else in politics. She had taken what appeared to be a

:04:11.:04:13.

something else in politics. She position but taken it extremely

:04:13.:04:15.

serious and was committed to the issues. I'm quite disappointed for

:04:15.:04:22.

her. Why would Ed Miliband do such a thing. You just mentioned about

:04:22.:04:28.

London mayor, did Diane not ask thing. You just mentioned about

:04:28.:04:36.

Someone who's an eminent person thing. You just mentioned about

:04:37.:04:39.

this programme, I don't know how he could do that. I think Michael's

:04:39.:04:43.

missing you. Are you free this Thursday night? Make him a happy

:04:43.:04:50.

man, come back to the fold. I think I may be free this Thursday night.

:04:50.:04:54.

So, if he'll have me, I'll be there. My people will speak to your people.

:04:54.:04:59.

We'll get it sorted out. Diane, watch that big vase behind you,

:04:59.:05:03.

you're not insured for. That thanks Does she have a chance of being

:05:03.:05:10.

Mayor of London? She's very well known as Michael pointed out. That

:05:10.:05:12.

is important. People who are outside known as Michael pointed out. That

:05:12.:05:19.

the party fold have traditionally done well in the mayoral election.

:05:19.:05:20.

The job of being a London mayor done well in the mayoral election.

:05:20.:05:26.

running an economy the size of a nation. It is a very serious job.

:05:26.:05:30.

There may be problems with her running? That was a transparent

:05:30.:05:38.

There may be problems with her for it. She's potentially a very

:05:38.:05:41.

There may be problems with her compelling Coll ticks. People have

:05:41.:05:49.

left-winger but she's quite tough and conservative. Michael Gove said

:05:49.:05:57.

he had fallen in love with Diane which That's one vote he has. What

:05:57.:06:02.

do you think? I thing about Diane Abbott is she has a fantastic way of

:06:02.:06:08.

connecting. She has a really good way of connecting wi people. She

:06:08.:06:12.

would be a very strong candidate in candidate. It will probably be a

:06:12.:06:20.

Labour win next time. Depends, if Labour wins the 2015 election it may

:06:20.:06:25.

be more difficult. There's a danger for Labour that Diane is the big

:06:25.:06:30.

personality liked by the party primary but isn't necessarily a

:06:30.:06:35.

personality liked by the party in come the London general election?

:06:36.:06:39.

That's true. London is traditionally a Labour city. But Boris managed to

:06:39.:06:45.

win as an outsider. There are big dangers for Labour with that. I

:06:45.:06:50.

think, as I said before, somebody who seems a bit independent from

:06:50.:06:54.

their own party machinery tend to do We've only had mayors so far that

:06:54.:07:03.

were independent? Indeed. And how well Ken Livingstone did last time.

:07:04.:07:05.

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. well Ken Livingstone did last time.

:07:05.:07:09.

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. He was and is much more left-wing

:07:09.:07:11.

than Diane Abbott. Diane didn't He was and is much more left-wing

:07:11.:07:20.

stray on Syria, it was immigration. Why was Jeremy brown replaced by

:07:20.:07:28.

This is very much to do with Clegg deciding he has to go back to those

:07:28.:07:33.

people who abandoned the Liberal Democrats the day they went into

:07:33.:07:37.

coalition with the Conservatives really, and convince them there

:07:37.:07:42.

coalition with the Conservatives some holy areas of policy, sacred

:07:42.:07:46.

areas which they will defend. That includes civil liberties. In the

:07:46.:07:48.

Home Office, that incident with includes civil liberties. In the

:07:48.:07:51.

immigration vans went down very badly across the whole nation. Went

:07:51.:07:57.

down particularly badly with Liberal somebody there to put a shield on

:07:57.:08:11.

purpose behind it. And Nick Clegg has won the argument against the

:08:11.:08:14.

left, Vince Cable on the economy, away day in July, briefings say

:08:14.:08:19.

DrCable's been put in his box. He's won the argument on economic policy

:08:19.:08:21.

against the left. When it comes won the argument on economic policy

:08:21.:08:26.

the touchstone issue in the Home Office, he wants to shore up that

:08:26.:08:30.

vote on the left. And please The Guardian. This is important for

:08:30.:08:36.

something else going on which is that Nick Clegg has to keep his

:08:36.:08:41.

parliamentary party happy. That involves giving them ministerial

:08:41.:08:45.

jobs. A lot of Liberal Democrats losing their jobs, Michael Moore,

:08:45.:08:54.

because vacancies have to be created for number people to come in. By

:08:54.:09:03.

Liberal Democrat MPs will have been on the payroll. It is effective

:09:03.:09:08.

party management. I want to move on to press regulation. Brian Leveson's

:09:08.:09:14.

famous report, appeared before the parliamentary select committee.

:09:14.:09:19.

famous report, appeared before the will run you a clip from Connor

:09:19.:09:28.

politicians got involved in this. We moved away from the press 300 years

:09:28.:09:34.

ago. The centr commitment is Lord Leveson wanted a system the press

:09:34.:09:42.

self-regulation. This is state involvement which I worry about

:09:42.:09:47.

profoundly. He sits on the media interviews and investigations into

:09:47.:09:54.

the media. Chris Huhne said earlier he thought all the newspapers would

:09:54.:09:57.

sign up to the Government-backed Royal Charter. I think he's totally

:09:57.:10:05.

should. But he did say they would. I think he's wrong. They won't sign

:10:05.:10:10.

up. All the mood music when that Royal Charter was agreed on Friday

:10:10.:10:13.

was they would not sign up. It is Maria Miller, is essentially saying

:10:13.:10:20.

to the press industry, if you don't sign up, the Royal charter will

:10:21.:10:24.

to the press industry, if you don't ahead. I cannot control the Labour

:10:24.:10:30.

to the press industry, if you don't industry is wind the clock back

:10:30.:10:31.

to the press industry, if you don't what they are calling the Puttnam

:10:31.:10:35.

stage. That was earlier this year, Lord Puttnam was tack amendments

:10:35.:10:42.

which would introduce statutory regulation. Maria Miller says you

:10:42.:10:51.

statutory legislation but if you don't sign up to this, it will be a

:10:51.:10:57.

lot worse. Will that work? Playing the good cop, bad cop routine? Will

:10:57.:11:03.

that pressurise everyone to sign up. Lots of people are saying this will

:11:03.:11:07.

be a club with no members. It won't work. As Nick and I broke the story

:11:07.:11:12.

last week that the Government was going to reject the newspaper-backed

:11:12.:11:18.

one, I'm certain that the newspapers now, most of them maybe, not all,

:11:18.:11:24.

but most, will go the legal route and to judicial review on what the

:11:24.:11:27.

Government's proposing and will and to judicial review on what the

:11:27.:11:32.

it to strains Bowring where freedom of the press is enshrined. They

:11:33.:11:40.

it to strains Bowring where freedom fight this? There is enough fury

:11:40.:11:42.

amongst Fleet Street to result in that. The big political question

:11:42.:11:46.

going forward is which of the party leaders does the press blame the

:11:47.:11:50.

most for the emergence of press regulation? The Tories are very

:11:50.:11:54.

confident they'll blame Ed Miliband the most. They'll target him before

:11:54.:12:00.

2015. David Cameron gave us Brian Leveson. You appoint a judge who

:12:00.:12:07.

shouldn't be surprised with what you got in the Leveson report? I big

:12:07.:12:13.

chunk of press will look at David Cameron saying, you were the guy who

:12:13.:12:22.

intended what will happen. If he had have appointed Brian Leveson. If

:12:22.:12:32.

they face more punitive fines over Labour ale cases they take that

:12:32.:12:37.

they face more punitive fines over Europe. The Daily Mail and the

:12:37.:12:40.

tallest presumably will have to suspend their campaign of Britain to

:12:40.:12:45.

leave the European Convention of suspend that. We must never come out

:12:46.:12:53.

Churchill was behind it. He was indeed. But it is actually a major

:12:53.:13:00.

constitutional issue whether you regulate the press or not. There was

:13:00.:13:04.

constitutional issue whether you a lot of ill feeling that this Marie

:13:04.:13:08.

ya miller statement was snubbing out on Friday afternoon. Somebody said

:13:08.:13:12.

freedom of the press too important to sneak out on afully afternoon.

:13:12.:13:18.

The whole subject should be treated with respect. We've run out of time.

:13:18.:13:23.

I'll be back next Sunday with the Communities Secretary Eric Pickles

:13:23.:13:27.

at our usual time of 11.00am. If

:13:27.:13:37.

Andrew Neil and Marie Ashby are joined by the new Scottish secretary, Alistair Carmichael, Conservative cabinet minister Ken Clarke, former Liberal Democrat cabinet minister Chris Huhne and Labour MP Diane Abbott.


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