06/10/2013 Sunday Politics East Midlands


06/10/2013

Andrew Neil and Marie Ashby with the latest political news and interviews. With Lord Prescott, Godfrey Bloom MEP, Chuka Umunna, Margot James MP and City AM's Allister Heath.


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Transcript


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Morning, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. And in-out EU

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referendum before the general election? We talk to the Tory rebel

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demanding one next year, that is our top story. As government ministers

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prepare to decide how the press should be regulated, what will be

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the impact of this week's row should be regulated, what will be

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between the Daily Mail and Ed Miliband?

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And in the East Midlands — the mail peoples faces?!

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And in the East Midlands — the mail scam that's costing victims tens of

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thousands of pounds. And how are the Greens and UKIP planning to win your

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vote? He will try to force a vote in the

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October. Home Secretary Theresa He will try to force a vote in the

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was asked about his plans on the BBC earlier this morning. I think he has

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got it wrong, I think what we need to do is to negotiate the settlement

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with the European Union and then put that to the people me to decide

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whether to be in or out. Is this a flea bite or a real threat? I think

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the next election, a Conservative Party that will be offering people

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that renegotiation, a new settlement with Europe, looking to the future

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and putting that to the British people in and in or out referendum.

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And what the amendment possibly could do, as James Wharton, who

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And what the amendment possibly putting the Referendum Bill through

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Parliament has said, is it could jeopardise that bill. Adam Afriyie

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joins us now from Millbank studio. Good morning. If the referendum

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would be held next October, it would have to be an in-out question based

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the status quo? There wouldn't be time for a full renegotiation. I

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disagree. By having a referendum in 2014, it gives us 12 months to

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renegotiate, but it kick-started negotiations, because the European

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Union, if they wish us to remain members, would need to accommodate

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and make changes so that they would members, would need to accommodate

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and make changes so that they would persuade the British public to stay,

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strengthens the Prime Minister's hand, and 12 months is ample time

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for that kind of negotiation. You might think that, but Germany has

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not even got a government at the moment, why should they meet our

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timetable? This is going to be incredibly, located renegotiation. I

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think, basically, 80% of people incredibly, located renegotiation. I

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a referendum. More than 50% what a election. British businesses need

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certainty, and we could carry on taking a scan down the road for

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ever, but I have struggled with taking a scan down the road for

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conscience over this one. I do not want to cause trouble, but it is

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essential that Parliament and MPs have the opportunity to search their

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souls and give people a referendum this side of the election. That

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would also bring certainty and clarity for the future, and like I

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said, it strengthens the Prime Minister's hand if it is successful.

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You right in the Mail on Sunday Minister's hand if it is successful.

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the people are not convinced there even will be a referendum, so they

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don't trust David Cameron? I think the headline was not the headline I

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wrote for that piece. What I am You are saying that the British

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people are not convinced. Look, there are too many uncertainties

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here - they may not be convinced the Conservatives will win the election,

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I hope we will, they may not be convinced the renegotiation will be

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good enough, that there will be convinced the renegotiation will be

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referendum. Do you trust David That is why we need to bring the

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referendum forward, there is time to negotiate, and we tidy up the issue

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that has been hanging around for too long. Do you trust David Cameron to

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deliver a referendum in 2017? I Minister, and of course I trust

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deliver a referendum in 2017? I referendum? There as only variables

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in between. What I am doing with referendum? There as only variables

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this amendment, is to try to be referendum? There as only variables

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is that Parliament and every MP referendum? There as only variables

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the opportunity decide whether they want to be sure of a referendum

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within this parliament, or maybe leave it to the vagaries of what may

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within this parliament, or maybe happen in 2015. Supposing you got

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your way, how would you vote? Like Michael Gove, I would vote for us to

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leave as of today, but there will be Michael Gove, I would vote for us to

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an enormous amount of pressure on European Union leaders to come

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forward with proposals. If they European Union leaders to come

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to say, the mandate is not ever closer political union, it is ever

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closer trading harmony, giving us closer trading harmony, giving

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our legal system, I might change my more border control and control

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our legal system, I might change my mind. But this is what needs to

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happen - if we have a referendum in happen - if we have a referendum in

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negotiations to be kick-started happen - if we have a referendum in

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people to argue in or out, and the end result is a stronger Prime

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Minister. Is it true that you have end result is a stronger Prime

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Minister. Is it true that you have got about 80 MPs supporting this? It

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certain, and I think we will see it on hold over the next three or five

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weeks. He will have to ask each individual MP. I am asking you,

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is your motion! There will be other motions coming forward, and I know

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cross-party, for people who want the British public to have a say in

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2014. You know it is not going to get through, the whips will stop

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this from happening. One of the successes, apparently, of your

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party's Manchester conference was that you were not divided over

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Europe anymore, the Europe issue was settled. Here you are bringing it

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Europe anymore, the Europe issue was back to life and pouring petrol

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Europe anymore, the Europe issue was unlicensed troublemaker of the

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Tories? The only struggle I have had is not a fight with my party but

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Tories? The only struggle I have had with my conscience as to whether or

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not I would give Parliament and with my conscience as to whether or

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British people an opportunity to have a say in 2014. I wrestled with

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it, and I decided I wanted people to have that opportunity. It is for

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each individual MP to search their soul, speak to constituents and

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decide whether they want that. You decided it would get you in the

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headlines again. Oh, you are so cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition

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publicity seeker. All I seek is cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition

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would not be able to sleep at night if I did not bring forward this

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opportunity for Britain to have if I did not bring forward this

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say. We have left it far too long. Nobody under the age of 56 has had a

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say. Thanks for joining us, good luck with this continuing struggle

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with your conscience! I will move the seat around and addressed the

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panel, what do you make of it? The party managers must be furious with

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him. I think what this confirms party managers must be furious with

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that David Cameron is incredibly lucky in his enemies. His most

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prolific critics, Nadine Dorries, Peter Bone, Adam Afriyie, even if

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you are very anti-Cameron, you will not think, man, if only they were in

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charge of the party! I think the party managers are not too alarmed.

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They do not take him seriously? No, is not as if the James Wharton bill

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is a work of genius, it is riddled with flaws, anomalies and loopholes.

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It purports to guarantee that a referendum will take place in the

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next Parliament. My understanding of theoretically impossible and that

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all the future government would theoretically impossible and that

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is cancel out that bill with another bill. He does have a point that

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Cameron's plan for a referendum bill. He does have a point that

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nothing like as likely to happen... dangerous. The problem for David

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Cameron is twofold. One, if Ed Miliband says he's going to support

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Adam Afriyie, it will go through. Unlikely that Ed Miliband would

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Adam Afriyie, it will go through. that, but what he might do is say to

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his MPs, ignore this. It may well be significant number of Labour MPs do

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not turn up, and then what you have Conservative backbenchers, and in

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that war you might well find that through, and then the Prime Minister

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has real trouble, because Adam Afriyie says, the Prime Minister

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membership, up what basis and with which mandate? He would not be able

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to get agreement with Nick Clegg or Ed Miliband, so you would be looking

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think he is a Labour mole, that Ed Miliband, so you would be looking

:09:41.:09:49.

what I have come to, a Daily Mail style conspiracy theory, it could

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not be more perfect. The prospect of style conspiracy theory, it could

:09:50.:09:55.

a referendum on the EU at the same time as Scottish independence is

:09:55.:10:02.

has told us he could not sleep at conscience. We could send him some

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pills, I suppose. We know he's going to sack all those lieutenants were

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going around and saying he is the great future and the next leader of

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the Conservative Party. He denied doing that! He would be amazed to

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hear you say that, this is a crisis conversations in corridors, quite an

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operation to get letters into Graham Brady, he said to have letters,

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operation to get letters into Graham 46, but at the moment this campaign

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is being run by Lieutenant of Adam They are disaffected and not happy

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under David Cameron's leadership. There is a whole army of them! I am

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pleased he has outmanoeuvred the awkward squad, and now James Wharton

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is saying, you're going to kill awkward squad, and now James Wharton

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bill. I do not think they are very competence lieutenants. The main

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episode is it will unify a large Conservative Party behind David

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Cameron. On what they hope is a settled position. We still hope

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Cameron. On what they hope is a be talking to John Prescott, who is

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in hole, if you see him, pointing in the direction of the BBC studios! Do

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you want to buy a house? Can you afford the mortgage repayments but

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not the 20% or 30% deposit the mortgage provider is demanding from

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you? The Government says it has mortgage provider is demanding from

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scheme designed for you which is in launching next week, help to buy,

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re-emergence of 95% mortgages, remember them?! But is the policy

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really good for home-buyers or the British economy? Here is Giles.

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Never mind who lives in a house British economy? Here is Giles.

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this, who can afford to buy a house these days? The Government would

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this, who can afford to buy a house like many more people to be able to

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without putting down a crippling like many more people to be able to

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without putting down a crippling amount of money as a deposit, and in

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the spirit of rights to buy, the government has launched help to

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the spirit of rights to buy, the confusingly it is the name for two

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been running since April. Help to government are bringing it in early.

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Let's get in on the inside and take a good look around at what this

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scheme actually has to offer. And why the Government thinks it really

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works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity loan scheme. The idea, nice, is

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works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity it was for new build only, up to a

:12:40.:12:41.

value of £600,000. But it is Help to value of £600,000. But it is Help to

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Buy 2 that everyone is looking into right now. It is for any property up

:12:47.:12:51.

to a value, again, of £600,000. right now. It is for any property up

:12:51.:12:58.

time the Government is guaranteeing that it will take on the first

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losses should the home owner in that it will take on the first

:13:00.:13:04.

future failed to make their mortgage payments. Don't worry about that, if

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you are a buyer, you are going to be concerned about coming up with the

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5% deposit and 95% mortgages will be available again in participating

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a housing prime mover. You cannot get training to 5% mortgage anymore,

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90% even, so there are couples in our country who have good jobs,

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decent incomes, they could afford the mortgage payments but they

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failure in our banking market. So Jonathan, but I guess for you this

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is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a main impact of this scheme will

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is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a to push up prices, who does that

:13:50.:13:52.

benefit? Mostly rich and all the people who own their houses. Plus

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the banks, of course, because it is a subsidy for them. Who loses?

:13:57.:14:02.

People who want to buy a house in the future. Moreover, it is a bit

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odd that the Government says it the future. Moreover, it is a bit

:14:04.:14:09.

not OK to borrow to finance schools or roads, but it is fine for the

:14:09.:14:15.

effectively, in order to guarantee housing market. 2.3 million? I do

:14:16.:14:25.

not think Help to Buy covers that. But enter a would-be buyer, will

:14:25.:14:31.

they now be seeing a plethora of help to buy mortgages? In a word,

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no. David Cameron has brought the months, and banks were not ready at

:14:38.:14:43.

that stage. Two banks have committed to fund the scheme, the Lloyds group

:14:43.:14:46.

and the RBS group, so lenders like Halifax, RBS and NatWest. They will

:14:46.:14:51.

be doing the scheme, but even once the scheme is up and running you are

:14:51.:14:59.

probably find 95% mortgages on the high street because of the guarantee

:14:59.:15:08.

the government is offering. People might say this is how we got into a

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mess in the first place. Why would the government want to make those

:15:12.:15:14.

products available then now? It the government want to make those

:15:14.:15:21.

more what investment banks were doing in the background that caused

:15:21.:15:28.

performed extremely well through the depths of the downturn. Is this

:15:28.:15:35.

performed extremely well through the game changer? Yes, I have done my

:15:35.:15:37.

best to save over the last few years but this has enabled me to make

:15:37.:15:42.

best to save over the last few years first purchase. How frustrating

:15:42.:15:47.

best to save over the last few years it just renting? Very frustrating,

:15:47.:15:49.

you are throwing away money hand over fist, and now I can take that

:15:49.:15:57.

enthusiasm raises a question back at the flat. If you are looking for a

:15:57.:16:02.

95% mortgage, you don't really care economy, you are thinking, great, I

:16:02.:16:12.

can buy a house. Yes, if I was a house buyer or a bank, I would be

:16:12.:16:19.

pleased, but it will do longer term economic damage. The tricky steps

:16:19.:16:23.

the government are trying to pull off is that home-buyers might be so

:16:23.:16:25.

grateful for the opportunity to off is that home-buyers might be so

:16:25.:16:32.

their own homes that they reward the Government with the vote, while

:16:32.:16:35.

their own homes that they reward the the same time the Government tries

:16:35.:16:38.

to sidestep consequences that such a Now Conservative MP Margot James,

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and Allister Heath, editor of City It is said by the critics that this

:16:53.:16:59.

scheme will cause a housing bubble. Where is the evidence? House prices

:16:59.:17:17.

are more varied. Housing not just in London remains overvalued and the

:17:17.:17:20.

problem with this scheme is that it will pump up house prices, it will

:17:20.:17:28.

therefore houses will become even more overvalued. That is a dangerous

:17:28.:17:33.

territory, last time it ended in tears, and now the Government is

:17:33.:17:38.

taking on the risk of that policy. What do you say to that? We have a

:17:38.:17:44.

real problem, it takes people on average until they are 38 years

:17:44.:17:55.

real problem, it takes people on property. The problem is not that

:17:55.:17:57.

they cannot afford it, but they cannot afford the deposit. We have

:17:57.:18:01.

got to do something to allow people to get their feet on the property

:18:01.:18:05.

ladder and I don't agree it will cause a boom in house prices. It

:18:05.:18:10.

would if we were not building any have had a record this year, 12

:18:10.:18:23.

months to right now, the record have had a record this year, 12

:18:23.:18:34.

the last ten years. These are not the statistics I have seen, but

:18:34.:18:39.

the last ten years. These are not new supply is coming up. It is

:18:39.:18:42.

starting to creep up. We don't see enough house building, need to build

:18:42.:18:48.

more houses and that is a solution to this problem. You are right,

:18:48.:18:53.

people cannot afford to buy homes and the reason is there are not

:18:53.:18:56.

enough good quality homes in the deposits are so high is because

:18:56.:19:04.

secondly the Government has passed laws to make the banking system

:19:04.:19:08.

secondly the Government has passed prudent, telling them to put more

:19:08.:19:13.

wrong. Now suddenly the Government is not happy with the outcome of its

:19:13.:19:18.

own rules and is trying to create these subsidies to circumvent the

:19:18.:19:24.

rules it has put in place. It is not a subsidy. Don't forget banks have

:19:24.:19:28.

to pay a charge in order to take part in this loan scheme and that

:19:28.:19:34.

the... You are guaranteeing the money. Yes, but the fear is worked

:19:34.:19:42.

out on a commercial basis. The taxpayer is protected. Why? You

:19:42.:19:47.

out on a commercial basis. The guaranteeing £12 billion worth of

:19:47.:19:52.

mortgages per year. Yes but the change in the whole mortgage basis

:19:52.:19:58.

has been made a few years ago in response of the crash. They made the

:19:58.:20:01.

distressed test on people applying for mortgages much higher and you

:20:01.:20:12.

twice... So it will not be like these self certification mortgages

:20:12.:20:17.

handed out in America that caused the sub-prime crisis? Pigment bit

:20:17.:20:21.

like that but the banks are rightly asking for bigger deposits, they

:20:21.:20:26.

know there is a big chance house prices could fall if interest rates

:20:26.:20:33.

eventually, so they are demanding bigger deposits. The Government

:20:33.:20:38.

eventually, so they are demanding circumventing this is being passed

:20:38.:20:40.

eventually, so they are demanding on to the taxpayers which is why it

:20:40.:20:41.

is a dangerous policy. Instead they on to the taxpayers which is why it

:20:41.:20:44.

is a dangerous policy. Instead they should be massively accelerating

:20:44.:20:52.

Planning permission is much easier to get now, we have seen a 49%

:20:52.:20:54.

increase in planning permission to get now, we have seen a 49%

:20:54.:20:59.

a new building over the last year, a huge increase. In the figures I

:20:59.:21:05.

a new building over the last year, a recently, they showed new start

:21:05.:21:08.

a new building over the last year, a the 12 months to the autumn were

:21:08.:21:12.

only about 110,000 which is the figure you inherited, which was

:21:12.:21:17.

only about 110,000 which is the an all-time low in 2010. New house

:21:17.:21:19.

built in the last quarter are third up on the time last year. You have

:21:20.:21:24.

relaxation of planning laws and up on the time last year. You have

:21:24.:21:29.

other policies the Government put into effect last year to take effect

:21:29.:21:33.

and it is coming through now. I agree, if we weren't building more

:21:33.:21:38.

houses, if the construction sector advantage of the increased demand,

:21:38.:21:45.

there would be a risk. David Cameron says you are snob and it is only

:21:45.:21:52.

snobs who dislike Help To Buy. They don't have the bank of mum and dad,

:21:52.:21:59.

people like that will finally get on the housing ladder. That is complete

:21:59.:22:05.

nonsense. We need a sustainable housing market where there is a

:22:05.:22:10.

large amount of construction, like in the 1930s for example, where

:22:10.:22:13.

large numbers of proper family homes were being built for people. House

:22:13.:22:22.

prices were pushed down and people could afford houses. You are now

:22:22.:22:28.

encouraging people to take out a 95% mortgage, I thought that was a bad

:22:28.:22:34.

idea, so supposing interest rates go struggle, and supposing house prices

:22:34.:22:42.

fall by more than 5%, I am now faced with negative equity and soaring

:22:42.:22:49.

interest rates that I cannot afford. 95% mortgage, if you can afford

:22:49.:22:54.

interest rates that I cannot afford. repayments, you will be fine. What

:22:54.:22:57.

happens when interest rates rise? They have got to rise a lot before

:22:57.:23:03.

you get into trouble. People are already affording rent which is

:23:03.:23:08.

you get into trouble. People are lot higher than mortgage payments.

:23:08.:23:11.

You will not be able to get into this scheme unless you can afford

:23:11.:23:16.

repayments double what they are this scheme unless you can afford

:23:16.:23:20.

the moment. The Conservatives should limelight last week but there was an

:23:20.:23:24.

unwelcome intruder in the shape limelight last week but there was an

:23:24.:23:30.

row between Ed Miliband and the Daily Mail. Just over a week ago the

:23:30.:23:38.

claiming that Ed Miliband's Father Ralph hated Britain. They showed a

:23:38.:23:45.

picture of his father's gravestone with the caption, grave socialist.

:23:45.:23:48.

They then removed the photo and with the caption, grave socialist.

:23:48.:23:53.

Ed Miliband the right to reply on printed an editorial alongside it

:23:53.:23:57.

saying they stood by every word printed an editorial alongside it

:23:57.:24:01.

published an fair headline. It also reporter had gate-crashed a private

:24:01.:24:08.

memorial service for Ed Miliband's uncle in a London hospital, for

:24:08.:24:13.

which the paper has now apologised, but Ed Miliband has called on the

:24:14.:24:15.

hard look at the way his papers but Ed Miliband has called on the

:24:15.:24:23.

run. This comes a week before a but Ed Miliband has called on the

:24:23.:24:31.

Joining us now from Hull, John Prescott. Does this row between

:24:31.:24:40.

Joining us now from Hull, John reinforce the case for tough, new

:24:40.:24:46.

certainly influences the opinion about that but that is more of Paul

:24:46.:24:49.

Dacre's doing. Ed Miliband rang about that but that is more of Paul

:24:50.:24:54.

while I was in Strasbourg making sure my complaints were nothing

:24:54.:24:59.

while I was in Strasbourg making do with press regulation and he

:24:59.:25:03.

while I was in Strasbourg making right. This argument is not about

:25:04.:25:07.

politicians and media people, it is about ordinary people that love

:25:07.:25:16.

politicians and media people, it is and dealt with. All of these cases

:25:16.:25:17.

affected individual people and they are the ones that need to have

:25:17.:25:22.

justice in this matter. Next week we will be hearing whether the Privy

:25:22.:25:26.

Council will be reporting on the will be hearing whether the Privy

:25:26.:25:37.

agreeing then that what the mail did with its Miliband article was a

:25:37.:25:49.

matter of judgement? Yes, and the with its Miliband article was a

:25:49.:26:02.

conclusion that the relationship between the press, the police and

:26:02.:26:05.

politicians should be governed, between the press, the police and

:26:05.:26:16.

proposal given by half the press industry that that does not meet the

:26:16.:26:20.

Leveson requirement and I suspect the Privy Council this week will

:26:20.:26:22.

have to reject that, and I hope the Privy Council this week will

:26:22.:26:27.

will because it is not consistent with the Leveson report which the

:26:27.:26:32.

Prime Minister said he supported. You attacked the mail in your column

:26:32.:26:38.

today but your paper went through the Cameron family bins to see what

:26:38.:26:43.

nappies they used for their disabled son. Isn't that far more offensive

:26:43.:26:46.

than what the Daily Mail wrote about Ralph Miliband? It probably is,

:26:46.:26:56.

than what the Daily Mail wrote about couldn't defend that. I have had

:26:56.:27:04.

Haven't we all? Yes, but we are editors who acts unilaterally. Paul

:27:04.:27:15.

Dacre is running this thing in the judgement and some accountability

:27:15.:27:31.

which the press have accepted the old PCC is no good. They are playing

:27:31.:27:33.

for time because if they reject old PCC is no good. They are playing

:27:33.:27:37.

this week there is 12 months until you can consider a parliamentary

:27:37.:27:42.

alternative and then you are near the election and you begin to bully

:27:42.:27:45.

the leaders. That is how they have been successful in putting off

:27:45.:27:55.

recommendations. Maybe my memory is fading but did you or anybody else

:27:55.:28:01.

in the Labour Party object to the Sunday Mirror's behaviour? I didn't

:28:01.:28:04.

know about it. I would just say Sunday Mirror's behaviour? I didn't

:28:04.:28:09.

is wrong if that is what they did. As you said, you have the same

:28:09.:28:13.

position when they go through your rubbish bins, I think that is wrong.

:28:13.:28:19.

We have Leveson set up by the Prime Minister to look at the cultures and

:28:19.:28:23.

practices and the unilateral action of editors and he came forward with

:28:23.:28:27.

a proposal that was agreed in Parliament under a compromise of the

:28:27.:28:39.

Royal Charter. I don't like a Royal Charter, it is not democratic

:28:39.:28:41.

frankly, but we have agreed to go along with it so why did the

:28:42.:28:44.

Government set up in charge at the same time rushed through the press

:28:44.:28:51.

box? It looks like a fix, like they are using the Royal Charter as a

:28:51.:28:58.

means of delaying everything. They have now said they are going to

:28:58.:29:02.

introduce their own independent charter. This industry does not want

:29:02.:29:07.

to face up to any form of accountability. We know Alistair

:29:07.:29:09.

Campbell and Ed Miliband's officers accountability. We know Alistair

:29:09.:29:14.

are working closely on the assault of the Mail. What is the endgame for

:29:14.:29:24.

this? Is it the head of Paul Dacre? He is not an acceptable character to

:29:24.:29:36.

me, and he needs to be taking account. When Ed Miliband rang me it

:29:36.:29:41.

was to say, don't let these arguments drift into press

:29:41.:29:44.

regulation, he wanted the argument of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband

:29:44.:29:58.

after Paul Dacre's head? No, he can stay there. It is like with Murdoch,

:29:58.:30:00.

after Paul Dacre's head? No, he can we were not attacking him but what

:30:00.:30:04.

is papers were doing. To that extent, what they are doing about

:30:04.:30:08.

ordinary people, not just big politicians who can look after

:30:08.:30:12.

themselves. We know, with the bad cases he had to deal with, they

:30:12.:30:16.

might get libel action, which the press say, but they pretty well

:30:16.:30:20.

destroyed their lives. That is about judgment. If you say, as Paul Dacre

:30:20.:30:25.

got good judgment? I would say no, he will have to live with it.

:30:25.:30:30.

Thank you for joining us, he did not even have to go to the BBC studios,

:30:31.:30:36.

we sent a truck there for him. What is the endgame in this? Whether the

:30:36.:30:41.

Labour Party is trying to make this an issue press regulation are not,

:30:41.:30:45.

this is where it is going. We have the criminal trial involving Andy

:30:45.:30:49.

Coulson coming up, the Privy Council discussing press radiation before

:30:49.:30:51.

the end of the year, and the question is, what is political

:30:51.:30:55.

impact? My hunch, it is an unfashionable view, is that the

:30:55.:30:59.

total at yum elated political impact of the Leveson story over the past

:30:59.:31:02.

several years, hacking and everything, is close to zero,

:31:02.:31:09.

because most voters do not care, and those who do care believe that all

:31:09.:31:13.

parties are roughly complicit in being too close to editors and

:31:13.:31:18.

proprietors. You said that Adam Afriyie was a Labour mould, with a

:31:18.:31:24.

smile. Is the Daily Mail also a Labour mole? This has been a dream

:31:24.:31:28.

for Ed Miliband, I took on Murdoch, I am taking on the energy companies

:31:28.:31:34.

and now the evil Daily Mail! I think... I should say I used to work

:31:34.:31:38.

for the Daily Mail, but when they printed the right of reply, they

:31:38.:31:42.

surrounded it with a big two fingers up at Ed. If they had not done

:31:42.:31:44.

surrounded it with a big two fingers that, they would not be in this

:31:44.:31:49.

position. The poll in the Sunday Times this morning shows 72% think

:31:49.:31:53.

the Daily Mail was wrong and backed Mr Miliband's demand for an apology.

:31:53.:31:58.

If you come to define and your dad, people are naturally going to do

:31:58.:32:02.

this, but it took all the coverage away from the Tory conference, the

:32:02.:32:05.

media loves covering itself, here we are doing it again, this has been a

:32:05.:32:12.

dream for Mr Miliband. The political significance of this is that David

:32:12.:32:15.

Cameron said in the House of Commons that he wanted to try to find some

:32:15.:32:18.

common ground between the three party Royal Charter and the

:32:18.:32:24.

so-called press industry version. What the Daily Mail has done is

:32:24.:32:28.

ensured that the Prime Minister is not going to be able to do that.

:32:28.:32:31.

What is going to happen this week is that the press Royal Charter has to

:32:31.:32:35.

be considered first, and that will probably be rejected. The Privy

:32:35.:32:41.

Council will reject it. Then the three party Royal Charter will come

:32:42.:32:46.

up, but meanwhile the press will set up their own regulatory body because

:32:46.:32:51.

the Royal Charter is not a proper statutory underpinning, they will be

:32:51.:32:52.

able to go ahead with that. There statutory underpinning, they will be

:32:52.:32:56.

will be the legal basis for the oversight of the oversight body, and

:32:56.:33:01.

it will basically just be an ambassador that will not be

:33:01.:33:07.

resolved. As you say, no-one much cares about this outside of the

:33:07.:33:10.

profession and a few media watchers. But this has been great politics for

:33:10.:33:18.

Ed Miliband. It is only great politics if he scores a great

:33:18.:33:25.

victory. I take your view that people are cynical about it. But the

:33:25.:33:29.

narrative is, I am the chap who stands up to vested interests. But

:33:29.:33:33.

all those vested interests are people that you would expect a

:33:33.:33:36.

left-wing politician to want to take on. It is also more significant

:33:36.:33:45.

about who he has stood up for, and the person he has studied for is his

:33:45.:33:48.

father. Maybe people thought of him as a Marxist, now they think of him

:33:48.:33:54.

as war hero. He gets to the crux of matters, you know! You are watching

:33:54.:34:00.

the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes, I will be

:34:00.:34:01.

speaking to Godfrey In the East Midlands, the

:34:01.:34:14.

campaigners looking to stamp out scam mail. The letters with tempting

:34:14.:34:18.

offers which keep coming through our doors and can leave victims tens of

:34:18.:34:26.

thousands of pounds out of pocket. Receiving these through your

:34:26.:34:29.

letterbox, if you are a victim, is like being mugged in your own home.

:34:29.:34:33.

And last week it was Brighton, this week it's Manchester. Our Political

:34:33.:34:35.

Editor gives us a behind—the—scenes look at how the East Midlands has

:34:35.:34:38.

influenced the Conservative Party conference.

:34:38.:34:41.

Hello, I'm Marie Ashby and my guests this week include someone who's

:34:41.:34:44.

spent the week at the Tory Party conference in Manchester, Heather

:34:44.:34:46.

Wheeler the Conservative MP for Derbyshire South. And still sporting

:34:46.:34:50.

a Brighton sun tan, it's John Mann, the Labour MP for Bassetlaw in

:34:50.:34:54.

Nottinghamshire. Welcome to you both. First, let's get your reaction

:34:54.:34:58.

to the consultation which opened this week on the Derbyshire Fire and

:34:58.:35:01.

Rescue Service's plans to close 19 fire stations across the county.

:35:01.:35:10.

You must have some very worried constituents, Heather? At the

:35:10.:35:16.

moment, I did suppose they are worried because they probably don't

:35:16.:35:21.

know much about it. Your programmers highlighting it. The website dashed

:35:21.:35:26.

the document is on the website. Or they can bring my office and get

:35:26.:35:31.

copies. The model of the fire service is based on 1947 rules. This

:35:31.:35:37.

is the 21st century. We need our fire service to come into the 21st

:35:37.:35:45.

century. This is a plan for the future. So you approve of these

:35:45.:35:51.

plans? I went my constituents to read the document and understand it

:35:51.:35:56.

and give their comments. What is fascinating is that our numbers of

:35:56.:36:01.

callouts have gone down 40 3% —— 40%. And we are getting safer as

:36:01.:36:13.

well? Absolutely. We the same arguments from the ambulance service

:36:13.:36:17.

in the East Midlands and the police service pulling police officers off

:36:17.:36:20.

the front line and hospitals losing accident and emergency departments.

:36:20.:36:25.

One thing that categorises this coalition government is that they

:36:25.:36:30.

are taking part 999 services. Derbyshire is getting hits like the

:36:30.:36:35.

rest of the country. But these plans were approved by the Labour majority

:36:35.:36:39.

on the Fire authority. Because they have got less money because the

:36:39.:36:43.

government has cut the money. It boils down to government

:36:44.:36:47.

priorities. When George Osborne and David Cameron —— where they spend

:36:47.:36:56.

the money, they cut money from fire services. Cuts, he is saying. No,

:36:56.:37:02.

you doesn't understandably not going back to the 1970s. We are looking

:37:02.:37:07.

forward to the future. There aren't some fantastic new pieces of kit. We

:37:07.:37:12.

have to move with the times? Well, we've reported on the Lib

:37:12.:37:15.

Dems, Labour and the Conservatives as the party conference season has

:37:15.:37:18.

progressed, but what about some of the other parties? In a moment,

:37:18.:37:21.

we'll be hearing from UKIP, but first the Greens' spokesman in the

:37:21.:37:24.

region, Richard Mallender, told our reporter Helen McCulloch, about

:37:24.:37:26.

their prospects. I think there is very good support

:37:26.:37:30.

for the Green party in the East Midlands. We know from our local

:37:30.:37:34.

election results and from the European results last time around

:37:34.:37:38.

that many people want to vote Green. We are thinking about the

:37:38.:37:41.

European elections next year when there is a proportional

:37:41.:37:47.

representation system. That will be opportunity for people. What are

:37:47.:37:49.

your key policies for the East Midlands? We are looking to help

:37:49.:37:55.

grow the green economy. Want to see investment in housing and proper

:37:55.:37:59.

installation. We want to see investment in renewable energy as

:37:59.:38:05.

well. The East Midlands is the powerhouse for the UK economy. We

:38:05.:38:09.

have power stations here in the Trent Valley. We also have ideal

:38:09.:38:13.

situation for a lots more wind power. Some members of the Green

:38:13.:38:18.

party has said that you need to look towards UKIP to gather support. UKIP

:38:18.:38:25.

have been good at getting into the media. Unfortunately, or

:38:25.:38:30.

fortunately, they have not had many —— we have not had many members

:38:30.:38:34.

shooting their mouths of them saying daft things. We have to be out there

:38:34.:38:36.

putting our policies forward. Well, a few digs at UKIP there and

:38:37.:38:40.

with impeccable timing, joining us in the studio is Roger Helmer,

:38:40.:38:44.

UKIP's MEP for the East Midlands. So, Roger. Richard Malleinder saying

:38:44.:38:47.

that your party enjoys the controversy of it all. And some have

:38:47.:38:56.

enjoyed putting their foot in it? We are a resurgent, exciting party. We

:38:56.:39:01.

attract people with big personalities. Some of them go over

:39:01.:39:05.

the top but at least there is action and development and excitement. So

:39:05.:39:12.

the European elections next year, but already your deputy, Paul

:39:12.:39:16.

Nuttall, is saying that he UKIP should stand in the European

:39:16.:39:21.

elections. What do you think? We want to know because we want to

:39:21.:39:27.

inform the current and the! You will be standing against me? No, I would

:39:27.:39:34.

be standing against Heather Wheeler! I'm standing for a five—year term in

:39:34.:39:40.

the Parliament. I hope I shall do well next year. But you must be

:39:40.:39:49.

worried about UKIP? We have done interesting polling and we have

:39:49.:39:56.

noticed how many votes are coming in from the old Labour end. We have a

:39:56.:40:01.

small socialist workers group but they are churning through the votes

:40:01.:40:08.

and UKIP are picking up those. Heather is right. Many people say

:40:08.:40:14.

the UKIP is the Conservative Party in Excel. But we are getting votes

:40:14.:40:21.

—— the Conservative Party in ex—aisle. But we are getting votes

:40:21.:40:24.

from people who have not voted in many years or from the Lib Dems or

:40:24.:40:37.

Labour. Are you worried, John? No, I'll worried about the hypocrisy of

:40:37.:40:43.

UKIP. How much of you are from its? You have earned millions, you would

:40:43.:40:48.

your leaders. Don't MPs get salaries? You don't believe any

:40:48.:40:55.

European elections! I believe in representing my constituents. You

:40:55.:41:03.

represent the —— in the European Parliament as if you are a Foreign

:41:03.:41:10.

Minister. You argued that I shouldn't be allowed to represent

:41:10.:41:15.

the European Parliament's view. I did not say any of those things. I

:41:15.:41:19.

did not say that we ought to go and absolutely did not say that I was

:41:20.:41:24.

representing the European Parliament. I represent a

:41:24.:41:28.

constituency represent me. And I suppose you want in South Korea

:41:28.:41:32.

either, paid for by the taxpayer? Gentleman, so why should they vote

:41:32.:41:38.

for Labour and not UKIP? Because of jobs. The critical thing is jobs.

:41:38.:41:44.

That is what East Midlands needs. And these 909 services. The NHS in

:41:44.:41:49.

turmoil because of the cuts that are starting to work through. The fire

:41:49.:41:53.

service, the Belize, the ambulance service ahead of it. That is what

:41:53.:41:59.

Labour is fighting on. So how will you counter this UKIP vote? The

:41:59.:42:05.

answer is that we have already got fantastic manufacturing jobs here.

:42:05.:42:08.

They understand that Europe cannot do without us. They would be happy

:42:08.:42:12.

to have a free trade agreement. There is no way that John and his

:42:12.:42:16.

merry gang are gay to take is back to the 1970s. With your party be

:42:16.:42:25.

standing against Heather? I don't know. Can I come back to John's

:42:25.:42:31.

point. He has said that jobs are being hurt by excessive immigration

:42:31.:42:36.

from Europe. We agree. The difference is is that it was John's

:42:36.:42:41.

party which encourage this massive immigration and we are the only

:42:41.:42:45.

party saying that we have to get out of European Union because that is

:42:45.:42:48.

the only way that we can control our borders. And they don't say what

:42:48.:42:53.

they would have in its place. But what Rogers said in America to the

:42:53.:42:58.

Heritage Institute was that we want more flexible labour markets, in

:42:58.:43:03.

other words, cheaper labour here. That issue has not been addressed.

:43:03.:43:10.

Ever since Roger was in the Tory party and Margaret Thatcher took a

:43:10.:43:15.

sin. It was your party when you were in the Tory party. The big error was

:43:15.:43:19.

not that people can move across Europe, but that they can work

:43:19.:43:24.

anywhere. What I am calling for is Caesar's so that we give people jobs

:43:24.:43:30.

where they are needed and not where there's competition. Well done!

:43:30.:43:37.

Ever, do you see UKIP are being taken more seriously? I can

:43:37.:43:43.

understand why they're hopeful that, but unfortunately, they are not.

:43:43.:43:48.

What is an old, dear friend and I will not disrespecting. But we are

:43:48.:43:51.

talking about, in the nicest sense of the phrase, a group of people

:43:51.:43:57.

coming together and unfortunately people have got very, very angry.

:43:57.:44:03.

The recession was so bad and the austerity measures. But we had to

:44:03.:44:08.

take them because of the huge deficit that we were left. But we

:44:08.:44:13.

are coming out of the other side of it now. What about the fantastic

:44:13.:44:16.

figures about the number of cars bought in the last month. And that

:44:16.:44:21.

is Derbyshire. How was the party going to be taken more seriously? I

:44:21.:44:25.

have seen the list of candidates for next year's European elections and

:44:25.:44:30.

I'm very impressed. We have taken one guy who made a bit of a blooper

:44:30.:44:34.

at our party conference and remove the whip from them. Any new party

:44:34.:44:40.

will have people like this. We will straighten it out. We are a serious

:44:40.:44:47.

party. We came second in the last European election. You bang on about

:44:47.:44:56.

riding high in the polls, but but you did OK Lincolnshire but not in

:44:56.:44:59.

the rest of the East Midlands. Compared to where we were, it was an

:44:59.:45:04.

extraordinarily good result. Last time, we came second, ahead of

:45:04.:45:12.

Labour. And we see the every —— we see every prospect of coming first

:45:12.:45:15.

next time. That'll be a game changer in British politics. You have been

:45:15.:45:21.

born! Roger Helmer, thank you for joining us.

:45:21.:45:23.

Now last week our Political Editor, John Hess, sent me a postcard from

:45:23.:45:27.

the Labour conference in sunny Brighton. This week, he's been to

:45:27.:45:30.

not—so—sunny Manchester to see the Conservatives at their conference.

:45:30.:45:38.

Dear Marie, a moment to relax with a touch of crazy golf, scale down to

:45:38.:45:42.

an exhibition stand at the Conservative conference. One of our

:45:42.:45:46.

MPs is even on the leaderboard. So which leader has got the best

:45:46.:45:51.

handicapped and which one is on the campaign fair way for a hole in one.

:45:51.:45:56.

But what you can't fail to mess around the Conference exhibition

:45:56.:45:59.

hall is the image of the Tories certainly had an election winning

:45:59.:46:05.

swing. Margaret Thatcher still inspires the party faithful,

:46:05.:46:08.

especially for a new generation of conservative women. At a fringe

:46:08.:46:15.

meeting, there were renewed calls for more women in politics. I think

:46:15.:46:19.

it is much more credible if we have women talking about these is use

:46:20.:46:24.

across the political spectrum than if we have the same men on TV or in

:46:24.:46:29.

the newspapers all of the time. Amanda Soloway chairs the party's

:46:29.:46:34.

women's organisation in the East Midlands and hopes to be the next MP

:46:34.:46:38.

for Derby North. I would certainly like to see us getting into 40%. Try

:46:38.:46:47.

to get women more involved. We have a lot to offer. Ken Clarke believes

:46:47.:46:53.

he has more to offer. He confirmed he was staying on to fight the next

:46:53.:46:58.

general election in rashly. I will be 74. Mid—term of my career. I am

:46:58.:47:05.

surprised, to find myself still doing it. Although when I started, I

:47:05.:47:11.

would have told you that I'm not sure if I would be persuaded to give

:47:11.:47:17.

this up. Back to the golf, and success. The Conference ball hits

:47:17.:47:20.

its target but maybe that is just political spin.

:47:20.:47:22.

John Hess reporting on the Conservatives in Brighton — and get

:47:22.:47:26.

ready to see our political editor as you've never seen him before in 60

:47:26.:47:30.

seconds. But first, to most of us they're a nuisance — but to others

:47:30.:47:33.

they can mean being conned out of thousands of pounds. Scam mail,

:47:33.:47:36.

delivered through the letter box, telling you you've won prizes and

:47:36.:47:40.

you need to send money to receive them, is a growing problem. And here

:47:40.:47:43.

in the East Midlands, a campaign's sprung up to have them made illegal.

:47:43.:47:47.

Des Coleman has been to meet the family of one victim.

:47:47.:47:54.

Sometimes it is just junk mail. Other times, it includes tempting

:47:54.:47:58.

offers of cash. Most of us throw them away. But some people get taken

:47:58.:48:03.

in. I have come to Derbyshire to talk to a family that lost thousands

:48:03.:48:09.

to one such scam. This is three months' worth of scam mail that you

:48:09.:48:14.

had redirected from your father's house. Added it affect him? My

:48:14.:48:21.

father became totally addicted to the extent that if you got a letter

:48:21.:48:24.

like this, he would not do anything else that day until he had filled in

:48:24.:48:30.

the forms, may the application and sent off his checks to the

:48:30.:48:36.

criminals. He would refuse to to do anything with the family until he

:48:36.:48:43.

had done that. £150 a week, £5,000 a year. We worked out that since he

:48:43.:48:48.

has been doing this, he must have spent over £30,000. So what can be

:48:48.:48:53.

done? Three things need to be done. One is to stop the delivery through

:48:53.:48:59.

people's letterboxes of this can mail —— of this scam mail. The Royal

:48:59.:49:06.

mail needs to filter this mail out. Secondly, Parliament needs to

:49:06.:49:11.

strengthen consumer protection regulations to make trading

:49:12.:49:17.

standards take stronger action against these criminals and conmen

:49:17.:49:22.

delivering this mail. And ministers need to recognise that this is an

:49:22.:49:25.

addiction, an illness, just as much as alcoholism.

:49:25.:49:27.

Marilyn Baldwin, the founder of the Think Jessica Charity, is here. I

:49:27.:49:32.

read on your website about your mum being scammed and it was just

:49:32.:49:38.

heartbreaking. She was in her eighties, describe to me how it

:49:38.:49:46.

literally took over her whole life. Described to me the day—to—day

:49:47.:49:52.

bombardment. What happened to my mother, she responded to one of

:49:52.:49:56.

these letters. And I was put on what is called a sucker 's' list. Over

:49:56.:50:00.

the five—year period before she died, she received over —— several

:50:00.:50:11.

letters from the scammers. We try to get the post redirected but there

:50:11.:50:15.

was nothing that we could do. We could not get power of attorney, we

:50:15.:50:20.

could do nothing. We had to stand back and watch a do it. What effect

:50:20.:50:24.

did it have on her mentally, physically. Mother stopped going

:50:24.:50:28.

out, she missed family weddings, she became very fearful of people coming

:50:28.:50:33.

to the door. She was getting letters from FBI agents, she was getting

:50:33.:50:36.

letters from clairvoyant saying that her family were against her. It was

:50:36.:50:42.

a whole cocktail of additional characters which formed her

:50:42.:50:46.

delusional world. You set up the charity based in the East Midlands,

:50:46.:50:49.

but it is a much bigger problem than just here. It is a massive problem.

:50:49.:50:57.

Through the Think Jessica Charity website, we can be alerted to people

:50:57.:51:03.

who have lost millions. This mail is pumping into the UK. Brian Smith in

:51:03.:51:09.

the video there is one of your constituents, what have you been

:51:09.:51:17.

doing to help him? We have had ten minute rule debates in Parliament.

:51:17.:51:21.

We have got hold of the ministers, try to explain to them the issue

:51:21.:51:27.

over Royal mail. At the minute, it takes a signature of the Home

:51:27.:51:30.

Secretary to stop mail being delivered. Well to reason may is a

:51:30.:51:34.

bit busy! There are other things we should do. —— to reason may is a bit

:51:34.:51:43.

busy! The Royal mail don't want to be dealing with it they won't be

:51:43.:51:48.

sorting office to have a bundle of it and the police to go through it.

:51:48.:51:54.

We need regulation. I take my hot off to you, setting up a charity. I

:51:54.:52:00.

have found people, not always at elderly, while barristers say

:52:00.:52:06.

anything. They are scared as well. There is an embarrassment factor ——

:52:06.:52:10.

they are embarrassed to say anything. People get sucked into

:52:10.:52:17.

this. A rent as losses. Our MPs doing enough? In 2009, I addressed

:52:17.:52:27.

MPs in the House of Commons and I thought things were going to be done

:52:27.:52:35.

then. MPs have come on board. Heather is doing an amazing job

:52:35.:52:39.

now. Hopefully, she will keep pushing. I would like to bring in

:52:39.:52:44.

that these scammers know exactly who they are going for. They are going

:52:44.:52:48.

from mailing lists that categorise people as being elderly. You want

:52:48.:52:55.

the world mail to tackle this, but how? Now that we here it is going to

:52:55.:52:59.

privatise as well, that must be a concern. Yes, when I first

:52:59.:53:05.

approached Royal mail, I asked them to put a simple message or flyer

:53:05.:53:10.

where they could flag up victims who were getting a lot of this type of

:53:11.:53:15.

mail. They said it was impossible to do. Everything about a pensioner

:53:15.:53:22.

getting 100 letters a day and they say they can't be flagged up? ! They

:53:22.:53:28.

say that they have cancelled several contracts over recent years and that

:53:28.:53:32.

they understand the upset that scam mail can cause. This is a printed

:53:32.:53:38.

Royal mail stamp. The company that sent this can be traced by the PPI

:53:38.:53:43.

number on that stand. So cancelling ten contract is only the tip of the

:53:43.:53:49.

answer. —— the PPI number on that stamp. What we are doing is taking

:53:49.:53:56.

it a trading standards. East Staffordshire Council going to be

:53:56.:54:00.

the hub. I have 21 MPs from all around the country who have got

:54:00.:54:04.

their councils to join up with the East Sussex hub. We will attack the

:54:04.:54:10.

criminals that way. What about Royal mail. There are plans for

:54:10.:54:13.

privatisation. They are hardly going to want to turn away business? What

:54:13.:54:20.

Royal mail have done is what they have —— which is the tip of the

:54:20.:54:24.

iceberg. They have stopped coming in at the airports. This top 50,001 go

:54:24.:54:31.

last time. But we need to change the law. It is too profitable for them.

:54:31.:54:37.

Older viewers know, we all get junk mail of different kinds. Not of this

:54:37.:54:44.

volume. This isn't junk, it is scam. Junk mail is legal. But the Royal

:54:44.:54:49.

mail is making vast amounts of money from people buying mailing list. So

:54:49.:54:55.

you are saying it is not in their interest to act on this? It is not

:54:55.:54:59.

in their commercial interest. We need to make it so. We try to

:54:59.:55:05.

educate victims and potential victims so that when these people

:55:05.:55:08.

receive our literature and they get one of these letters, they think,

:55:08.:55:14.

which is one of those, and they don't respond. Because at

:55:14.:57:04.

We are getting into a discussion of more affordable homes needed, but we

:57:05.:57:07.

have no time. Andrew, back to you. Our next guest is no stranger to

:57:07.:57:17.

controversy, a former UKIP MEP he Our next guest is no stranger to

:57:17.:57:22.

recently lost his party's whip after a series of outbursts including

:57:22.:57:44.

receiving aid as 'Bongo Bongo Land' and joking that a group of UKIP

:57:44.:57:47.

women who didn't clean behind their fridges were 'sluts'. Now he sits in

:57:47.:57:52.

independent but remains a UKIP party member. Here's a flavour of recent

:57:52.:57:55.

events in the political life of Godfrey Bloom. How you can possibly

:57:55.:58:10.

be giving £1 million a month... Bongo Bongo Land. I got 6000 e-mails

:58:10.:58:16.

within 12 hours, only 47 were not agreeing with me so you are the

:58:16.:58:20.

within 12 hours, only 47 were not that is out of touch. Everybody

:58:20.:58:23.

knows me, a bit like the Marmite joke, they love me or they hate

:58:23.:58:27.

knows me, a bit like the Marmite but I have always told me like it

:58:27.:58:35.

is. I made a joke and said that women who did not clean behind the

:58:35.:58:40.

French were sluts and everybody laughed along, including the women.

:58:40.:58:46.

I have had hundreds of e-mails, saying, God Almighty, can't you

:58:46.:58:51.

I have had hundreds of e-mails, a joke any more? I am long in the

:58:51.:58:54.

correctness and I understand UKIP have moved on and they are doing

:58:54.:59:06.

well, and I wish them well. This, with no black faces on it. You are

:59:06.:59:10.

picking people out for the colour of with no black faces on it. You are

:59:10.:59:16.

their skin? You disgust me! Perhaps the way they are doing things now is

:59:16.:59:25.

disgrace me. We are joined now with a suitable distance between us by

:59:25.:59:31.

the independent MEP for Yorkshire and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You

:59:31.:59:34.

said this weekend that you have and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You

:59:34.:59:40.

be a complete sociopath to be in politics, are you a sociopath? No, I

:59:40.:59:50.

rugby club likes to tell it as it am just an ordinary bloke from the

:59:50.:59:54.

rugby club likes to tell it as it is. I did not come into politics to

:59:54.:59:55.

rugby club likes to tell it as it save my country from the clutches of

:59:55.:00:00.

the awful, evil... That is why I am in politics, and that is why I

:00:00.:00:06.

member, and I will still be voting ability... Do you accept that your

:00:06.:00:14.

conference? We were both born in ability... Do you accept that your

:00:14.:00:21.

same year, we are too old to worry about regrets. Let's look forward

:00:21.:00:27.

and see... Never mind the year I was born, what is the answer to my

:00:27.:00:35.

country and intent to do the best I independent for my country, and

:00:35.:00:42.

country and intent to do the best I re-elected. They are the only game

:00:42.:00:45.

in town, the only party that will get as out. Shouldn't you have been

:00:45.:00:54.

liability? You hijacked the party conference. That is a matter of

:00:54.:00:58.

perception. We have heard nothing in the last two years but it is a

:00:58.:01:03.

one-man band, a Nigel Farage party, and I can make a joke at a fringe

:01:03.:01:06.

meeting and collapse the whole thing. This doesn't say anything

:01:06.:01:14.

Andrew. It tells you about your journalism - it is not about UKIP or

:01:14.:01:23.

me, it was the journalists' reaction to a small joke at a meeting. And

:01:23.:01:30.

myself, unless I had a commended. Personality, the most unbelievable

:01:30.:01:43.

force of personality to collapse a party conference. Nigel Farage has

:01:43.:01:56.

been a friend of mine for 20 years, and may I remind you that in June

:01:56.:02:00.

and July UK was slipping in the polls, and when I made my statement

:02:00.:02:06.

about overseas aid, we went back to liability, I never was, I am a vote

:02:06.:02:13.

getter. As you know, there is a correlation, but let me show you

:02:14.:02:18.

what Nigel Farage had to say about you on the BBC. Let's blunder clip

:02:18.:02:23.

of that. We are not here to win friends amongst the liberal elite,

:02:23.:02:30.

and Godfrey's problem was that he manifesto. Don't you need to reflect

:02:30.:02:39.

that you are too outrageous, too politically incorrect even for UKIP?

:02:39.:02:41.

Well, you see, to a certain extent I politically incorrect even for UKIP?

:02:41.:02:47.

have been gagged on other subjects. I am a libertarian, I wanted to

:02:47.:02:51.

have been gagged on other subjects. about flat tax. I thought David

:02:51.:02:53.

Aronowitz wrote a very good piece in the times on drugs, and I have been

:02:53.:02:57.

gagged to speak about any of these things because they are not part of

:02:57.:03:01.

it, so I tend to speak about other things. Maybe they have outgrown

:03:01.:03:10.

machine, and they have to get rid of the Victor Meldrew wing. You might

:03:11.:03:13.

have a point, but I am speaking the Victor Meldrew wing. You might

:03:13.:03:17.

you from Hull, and if you look at Barnsley, and very recently in

:03:17.:03:23.

Scarborough and Whitby in the buy legends, 25%, so how you see things

:03:23.:03:28.

in the bubble, it is not like how we see it appear in Yorkshire. You

:03:28.:03:32.

in the bubble, it is not like how we like the one who was sitting in

:03:32.:03:35.

in the bubble, it is not like how we bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of

:03:35.:03:35.

course it isn't, we are getting bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of

:03:35.:03:40.

of the vote in by-elections, of course it is not. Boy, wouldn't

:03:40.:03:45.

of the vote in by-elections, of main parties and the establishment

:03:45.:03:48.

love to see that! But I am sorry, it is not happening. Will you stand as

:03:48.:03:52.

an independence against UKIP in is not happening. Will you stand as

:03:52.:03:55.

European elections? Almost certainly elections were next week, I could

:03:55.:04:08.

do not think I will go that route. Will you stand as a UKIP candidate

:04:08.:04:10.

again? We do not know, probably Will you stand as a UKIP candidate

:04:10.:04:14.

but I shall certainly be trying Will you stand as a UKIP candidate

:04:14.:04:18.

help UKIP as best I can. You both share a flat, I understand, in

:04:18.:04:21.

Brussels, neither of you clean behind the fridge. Other than the

:04:21.:04:26.

fact that the place is probably quite murky, you have got a chance

:04:26.:04:30.

to talk to each other and get back into his good graces, haven't you? I

:04:30.:04:34.

am sure we will be having a beer before the month is out. So Godfrey

:04:34.:04:44.

take it? For those of you who were shrugged! Thank you very much for

:04:44.:04:50.

joining. A great pleasure. I will have to move my own share, you do

:04:50.:04:55.

not have the sea Jeremy Paxman doing that! Nobody votes for UKIP because

:04:55.:05:00.

they think they are a smooth, slick, absence of PR polish is the reason

:05:00.:05:07.

for their popularity, so these are skirmishes are not a problem, and

:05:07.:05:11.

more than that, Godfrey Bloom does make Nigel Farage look better. Even

:05:11.:05:15.

in that clip from Andrew Marr, he juxtaposition with someone like

:05:15.:05:20.

Godfrey Bloom than he has done before. I mean, he did hijacked

:05:20.:05:25.

Godfrey Bloom than he has done conference, it was a disaster, they

:05:25.:05:26.

got tonnes of publicity but not conference, it was a disaster, they

:05:26.:05:29.

kind they wanted. But you have to journalists. I thought he was sexist

:05:29.:05:37.

long before anyone else, he used to have an incredible page on his

:05:37.:05:42.

website entitled Godfrey Bloom: Misogynist, and the proof that he

:05:42.:05:47.

photographed with a girls' rugby characters in politics. He does

:05:47.:05:53.

photographed with a girls' rugby Nigel Farage look better, but is sin

:05:53.:05:55.

was to say things you said before but to ruin the party conference. It

:05:55.:06:01.

sounds like he is coming back. A beer in Brussels and he will be

:06:01.:06:06.

sounds like he is coming back. A on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a

:06:06.:06:06.

beer in that built the Chechen, on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a

:06:06.:06:12.

sounds like it may be what the deal is that he comes back into UKIP

:06:12.:06:15.

sounds like it may be what the deal does not stand as an MEP at the

:06:15.:06:18.

European Parliamentary elections. -- in that built the kitchen. It is

:06:18.:06:22.

right to say the electorate are sophisticated and they know what

:06:22.:06:25.

this party is for, what characters Godfrey Bloom said for people to

:06:25.:06:33.

electorate know what they go using UKIP four. They are using it as

:06:33.:06:37.

electorate know what they go using vehicle to beat over the head the

:06:37.:06:37.

three established parties. They vehicle to beat over the head the

:06:37.:06:40.

probably do it in the European elections and give them first place.

:06:40.:06:44.

The big question is what happens in problem that Nigel Farage was making

:06:44.:06:55.

The big question is what happens in an Andrew Marr this morning is that

:06:56.:06:56.

he wants to copy the tactics of an Andrew Marr this morning is that

:06:56.:06:58.

he wants to copy the tactics of Paddy Ashdown, get elected and

:06:58.:07:00.

councils, build up a Parliamentary base, and to do that you do need

:07:00.:07:01.

Commons next week, and there is base, and to do that you do need

:07:01.:07:04.

ministerial reshuffle on the cards, that is the rumour in Westminster.

:07:04.:07:06.

David Cameron has spoken of the that is the rumour in Westminster.

:07:06.:07:10.

David Cameron has spoken of the extraordinary talent pool of women

:07:10.:07:12.

among his ministers, so could he bring more of them into the cabinet?

:07:12.:07:14.

He was talking about it earlier bring more of them into the cabinet?

:07:15.:07:19.

week. I think we are getting there in Britain, but we have a long way

:07:19.:07:25.

businesses in Britain, there are not boardroom. If you look at politics

:07:25.:07:29.

in Britain, there aren't nearly enough women around the Cabinet

:07:29.:07:34.

table. So I think, in every walk of life, whether it is the judiciary,

:07:34.:07:38.

whether it is politics, business, there is a lot further to go. Before

:07:38.:07:41.

the last election, we only had there is a lot further to go. Before

:07:41.:07:45.

women Members of Parliament. We there is a lot further to go. Before

:07:45.:07:47.

have around 50, so we have made there is a lot further to go. Before

:07:47.:07:50.

big change, but it is still 50 out of 300, not nearly enough. So we

:07:50.:07:55.

need to do more. My wife likes to say, if you don't have women in

:07:55.:08:00.

need to do more. My wife likes to places, you're not just missing

:08:00.:08:03.

need to do more. My wife likes to missing out on a lot more than

:08:03.:08:06.

need to do more. My wife likes to of the talent, and I think she

:08:06.:08:09.

need to do more. My wife likes to probably has a point. The prime

:08:09.:08:14.

need to do more. My wife likes to there going to be a reshuffle? I

:08:14.:08:14.

think you are right to say there there going to be a reshuffle? I

:08:14.:08:19.

will be a lot more women, they need to change the ratio of women to

:08:19.:08:25.

will be a lot more women, they need called Dave who went to maudlin

:08:25.:08:33.

college. So obviously they are not fishing in the biggest talent pool,

:08:33.:08:43.

but there are numbers. Esther McVey has been selling a very difficult

:08:43.:08:46.

brief in work and pensions, you could see people being given bigger

:08:46.:08:48.

roles. Helen is pretty sure. We could see people being given bigger

:08:48.:08:55.

told it is not a Cabinet level reshuffle me it is under Secretary

:08:55.:08:57.

level, so maybe you could put Esther McVey into the Cabinet. Margot

:08:57.:09:05.

James, who you had here not that long ago, she is very impressive.

:09:05.:09:07.

What is impressive is that some long ago, she is very impressive.

:09:07.:09:11.

like Andrea Leadsom, who is really impressive, worked in the City,

:09:11.:09:16.

like Andrea Leadsom, who is really smart, really big on important

:09:16.:09:19.

intervention, she should still be in there, but she fell out with George

:09:19.:09:23.

Osborne when she dared to criticise him a few years ago over Ed Balls

:09:23.:09:33.

you are doing it on talent, Andrea expectation, if he does not do this

:09:33.:09:40.

you are doing it on talent, Andrea now, a tonne of bricks will fall on

:09:40.:09:44.

him. He has got no excuse not to promote women, because the 2010

:09:44.:09:49.

intake was disproportionately female in terms of talent. The question of

:09:49.:09:58.

the Tories and the struggle with women voters is a very deep and

:09:58.:10:01.

historic one. You have to remember that for most of the post-war period

:10:01.:10:05.

they had an advantage electorally amongst women voters. Many times

:10:05.:10:07.

Conservative government without amongst women voters. Many times

:10:07.:10:12.

women of this country. This began to change in the mid-1990s, and the

:10:12.:10:17.

question is, why has that happened? personalities at the top are now

:10:17.:10:21.

much more hostile to women, or less, personalities at the top are now

:10:21.:10:26.

Brent doubled to female voters? personalities at the top are now

:10:26.:10:27.

is such a deep historical trend personalities at the top are now

:10:27.:10:29.

I do not think one reshuffle will change it. -- or less competent

:10:29.:10:38.

civil. The English party conference season is over, do you share the

:10:38.:10:40.

consensus view that Ed Miliband season is over, do you share the

:10:40.:10:47.

out best of the three party leaders? I think I probably do, but his

:10:47.:10:53.

overall approval ratings are still minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus

:10:53.:10:56.

ten. And the more the recovery seems minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus

:10:56.:11:00.

to take place, and some of the latest figures are quite amazing,

:11:00.:11:06.

they certainly surprised me, you wonder whether Labour's tactic is

:11:06.:11:10.

right to put all their eggs into the living standards basket. I was

:11:10.:11:16.

looking at car sales, which are booming. If people start to feel

:11:16.:11:18.

better, and they don't yet, but booming. If people start to feel

:11:18.:11:22.

they were, it is tougher to go on about living standards. George

:11:22.:11:31.

Osborne's... You have Ed Miliband making a great thing about living

:11:31.:11:34.

standards, but then they say under their breath, this is global forces,

:11:34.:11:42.

outstripping wage increases. And you're absolutely right, as the

:11:42.:11:45.

economy improves, presumably that will be dealt with, but Miliband's

:11:45.:11:48.

argument will be that there are people suffering, and even if the

:11:48.:11:52.

economy recovers, they will still forces, it is difficult to blame the

:11:52.:11:57.

government for that. Body being noticed now, there is nothing worse

:11:57.:12:01.

for the leader of the opposition noticed now, there is nothing worse

:12:01.:12:05.

for the leader of the opposition than to be not noticed. -- but he is

:12:05.:12:08.

being noticed now. It seems that he in many ways has set the political

:12:08.:12:12.

weather. Look at the number of references to the Labour leader

:12:12.:12:18.

weather. Look at the number of Mr Cameron's speech. And in Mr

:12:18.:12:21.

Obama's speech on a similar topic, living standards. Was the mentioning

:12:21.:12:30.

Ed Miliband?! Oh, he was using the same language, he has not gone that

:12:30.:12:35.

far. If I were Ed Miliband, I would be more worried now, because Labour

:12:35.:12:39.

through the kitchen sink at their conference. They came out with the

:12:39.:12:41.

biggest policy announcements they could, compulsory apprenticeships,

:12:41.:12:48.

the energy freeze on prices, and it generated a poll boost which has

:12:48.:12:49.

fizzled away within ten days. I generated a poll boost which has

:12:49.:12:55.

not know where they go from here. What is significant with Ed Miliband

:12:55.:13:00.

conference beaches, he has set the one nation Britain, and the problem

:13:00.:13:06.

with those speeches is people say, they are fine, they are academic,

:13:06.:13:07.

but what does it mean? What you they are fine, they are academic,

:13:07.:13:15.

now is an intellectual framework that translates into policies. The

:13:15.:13:18.

polls to watch are not the ones after the conferences, but at the

:13:18.:13:22.

end of the month when it has also pulled down. They will tell us where

:13:22.:13:26.

we are going. We will have to go ourselves now. Thank you to our

:13:26.:13:28.

guests. The Daily Politics will ourselves now. Thank you to our

:13:28.:13:31.

back tomorrow at noon on BBC Two, and I will be back on BBC One this

:13:31.:13:37.

time, same time, next week. If it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.

:13:37.:13:39.

Andrew Neil and Marie Ashby with the latest political news, interviews and debate. Including Lord Prescott on press regulation, Godfrey Bloom MEP on his departure from UKIP and shadow business secretary Chuka Umunna on the privatisation of Royal Mail. Also on the programme, Margot James MP and City AM's Allister Heath go head to head on 'help to buy'.


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