29/09/2013 Sunday Politics East Midlands


29/09/2013

Marie Ashby with the latest political news, interviews and debate. Andrew Neil interviews Foreign Secretary William Hague and Labour's Shadow Energy Secretary Caroline Flint.


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With me are a trio of top political commentators. All three will be

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tweeting their thoughts, or in some cases just their thought through the

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show, using the hashtag #bbcsp. cases just their thought through the

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Conservative Party conference gets afternoon. We have already been

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bombarded with a series of policy announcements, a tax break for

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married couples of up to £200 per year, more money on life extending

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cancer treatments and, last night, the news that the second stage of

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the Chancellor's Help To Buy scheme brought forward from the start of

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next year. David Cameron says it is all about helping hard-working

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people. Right now, you can't get, 95% mortgage. That means a typical

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family with two people earning 20,000, 25,000, they are being

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asked, to buy an average house, 20,000, 25,000, they are being

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mortgage payment, but they can't get the mortgage. They can't buy their

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flat or house. As Prime Minister, I'm not going to stand back while

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people's aspirations to get on the housing ladder, to own their own

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flat or home, is being trashed. housing ladder, to own their own

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is why we need to act. A predictable attempt by party leadership to

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kick-start the conference with eye-catching policies. The polls

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show a big bounce for Ed Miliband and the Labour Party, with decent

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numbers for UKIP. What do party councillors as they travel to their

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For the Conservatives this weekend, conference, and as a scene setter we

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asked ComRes to survey councillors are Finland and Wales. Councillors

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asked ComRes to survey councillors like Tom, packing for conference at

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home in Wellingborough. Immigration is an issue for him. He thinks there

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are pros and cons. But we found is an issue for him. He thinks there

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immigration has had a negative reflects into this wider issue of

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our relationship with Europe. People possible influx of ovarian and

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Romania emigrants. Obviously the issue of Europe is very big. --

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Ukrainian. His colleagues in Corby are worried about the rise of the UK

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Independence Party. In our survey, nearly a quarter of Conservative

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councillors thought that their party should make a pact with UKIP. The

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concern is, yes, will they take If that happens, maybe we don't

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concern is, yes, will they take back in. Maybe a partnership is

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concern is, yes, will they take way to go. It depends what they

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concern is, yes, will they take talking about them. A pact? Depends

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what they say, anything is possible. What would you like to see? Ideally,

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from my point of view, a national pact. David Cameron arrived in

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Manchester last night. Around the same time as these activists from

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London. I broke the news to them that in our survey just 26% of Tory

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councillors think that the prime ministers in touch with the lives of

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ordinary people. The same at all Conservatives, you don't judge

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people by their background. It's not where they come from, it is where

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they are going to. It is not a where they come from, it is where

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problem that he is a bit on the where they come from, it is where

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side? Cull you might describe him like that, I would not use those

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side? Cull you might describe him words. Explain your T-shirt, it

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side? Cull you might describe him phrase that a senior Cameron person

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is alleged to have used about you? It is a humorous way of letting

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is alleged to have used about you? party now that we are here to say

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important. We are not going away any time soon. A sentiment you will

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important. We are not going away any a lot at this conference, because

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just 22% of councillors in our survey said that David Cameron was

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any good at listening to the people that work hard for his party. That

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was Adam. Joining me now from the Conservative Party conference in

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William Hague. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Good morning. Over one in

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five Tory councillors in our survey support a pact with UKIP at the

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five Tory councillors in our survey election. Why do you think that

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five Tory councillors in our survey If it is one in five, it means a

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large majority did not want a pact with UKIP at the next election.

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large majority did not want a pact have noticed that UKIP, in local

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elections, has been receiving votes, some of which would otherwise have

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been for the Conservatives. I think we have to make sure that people

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election they are choosing between a Conservative and Labour Government,

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as David Cameron as Prime Minister or Ed Miliband. If people want to

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get a referendum on Europe, the or Ed Miliband. If people want to

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Cameron as Prime Minister. I think a Cameron as Prime Minister. I think a

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general election is different from the local government perspective. It

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is pretty unusual, some might say unprecedented, for a large chunk of

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one of the big parties in this country to want to go into coalition

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one of the big parties in this with a smaller party before an

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happened? Looking at your survey, three times as many didn't want

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happened? Looking at your survey, with statistics, you can highlight

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it whichever way around you want to. The point is, we are not having

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pacts with other parties, electoral pacts with other parties. You rule

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it out? That is not going to happen. What we do want is to have a pact

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it out? That is not going to happen. with the voters, if you like, as we

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have often done in the Conservative Party. We have won over the voters

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of other parties to support our policies and Prime Minister. That is

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default, they would produce a Labour important with those people that

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default, they would produce a Labour government in the exact opposite of

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many of the things they intend, government in the exact opposite of

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Conservative and decide to vote government in the exact opposite of

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UKIP instead in a general election. That could help to produce a Labour

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government. The chairman of the That could help to produce a Labour

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committee, the elected voice of Conservative backbenchers, he says

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your party should spell out what had once back from the European Union

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before next year's European actions. Do you agree? We will be spelling

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out some things in the European elections. I will be talking about

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this later on today. For instance, European treaties the concept of

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ever closer union, a concept that in believed in. We would like that

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ever closer union, a concept that in consequences that would flow from

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that. We will be setting out the examples and principles of the

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changes we want to say. Certainly over the next year, not only before

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the European actions but the general election, if you are saying, let

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have the exact list of anything election, if you are saying, let

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negotiate, that is difficult because there will be a negotiation of a new

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deal in Europe if David Cameron there will be a negotiation of a new

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election. To some extent, that has to be negotiated. Only 11% of your

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own councillors feel that people in their area think that George Osborne

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is in touch with ordinary people. is not for me to explain why people

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say what they say in surveys. The important thing is what we are

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delivering for the country. What George Osborne is delivering his

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renewed economic growth. 1.4 million new jobs in the private sector,

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renewed economic growth. 1.4 million for hard-working people, by reducing

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the tax for 25 million of them. for hard-working people, by reducing

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Help To Buy scheme that we are highlighting today. That is what

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really matters to people, actually, I think you will find. Let's talk

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about helping ordinary people. Ed Miliband is guilty freeze energy

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prices. What are you going to do about energy prices, we already

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asked energy companies to put people on their lowest tariffs. This has

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not been amended. -- implemented. Why not? This is going to happen

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within this government. It is going to happen within this government

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when the... Why hasn't it happened now? People are suffering now from

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rising energy prices. It has not happened because my colleagues have

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been implimenting it. In the case of Ed Miliband's policy, if you are

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asking why it has not yet happened under this Government, it didn't

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even survive a few our's scrutiny in opposition. In a few hours he had to

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concede that if there was a big change in oil prices then the policy

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would not work. The trouble is, change in oil prices then the policy

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would dry up some of the investment in the energy industry. I don't

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think it is a credible promise. in the energy industry. I don't

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tax bills doubling in the next a party that presided over council

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tax bills doubling in the next government, -- last government,

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tax bills doubling in the next not very credible. Why is George

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Osborne going against the European Well, we don't want to see the

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European treaties used in a way Well, we don't want to see the

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they should not be used. It's not necessarily over this particular

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issue. It is over the power that the European Union has over our lives

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and over this country. Can the bankers look after themselves? We

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should be able to decide those things in our own country. We have

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never signed up to such matters things in our own country. We have

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European institutions. If you allow one thing that wasn't meant to be

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decided to be decided, you find one thing that wasn't meant to be

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there are another ten or 20 things that affect many other people. We

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are very vigilant about what we that affect many other people. We

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competence creep, with the European Union taking more powers than it was

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meant to have. That is one of the referendum, do want a new deal in

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Europe. That is what we intend to institution, ICAP, fined for fixing

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the LIBOR rates. The founder of institution, ICAP, fined for fixing

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company has donated £5 million to your party. Shouldn't you give it

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back? Aren't you ashamed to accept that money? He has donated his own

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Which he made out of ICAP. As people have to other parties, people are

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free to do that and they should have to other parties, people are

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free to do that. I am not aware have to other parties, people are

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any plan for that to be repaid. Because you can't afford to. Let's

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recap this. We have seen Tory MPs parrot propaganda lines from the

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energy companies this week. We have the Chancellor going to court to

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fight for unlimited banker bonuses. We have a top Tory donor the centre

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fight for unlimited banker bonuses. of yet another city scandal. Ed

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Miliband is right when he says you lot are on the side of the vested

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interests so the rich and powerful, isn't he? Well, again, look at the

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record. I just did! 1.4 million extra jobs in the private sector, 25

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million people with a tax cut, a Help To Buy scheme which is going to

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help so many people, particularly young people have the house that

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future. Council tax bills held down, welfare reform so that it pays to

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work. Actually, this is a government achieving things for hard-working

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While President Laugharne he's talking about peace, the Iranians

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weapons programme. -- is talking. It would be hard to say from week

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to week whether it is speeding up continuing with it. That is why

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to week whether it is speeding up say the new message - the new words

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- from Iranian leadership are very welcome. I said that to the Foreign

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Minister in New York over the last few days but it is the actions that

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will count. At the moment, the nuclear programme continues. We

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negotiations on that and that will be a very important test as to

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whether actions will match the words. When will we know it if we

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are being strung along? He has strung as a long in the past as

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are being strung along? He has nuclear weapons negotiator. When

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will we know if he is not just doing that again? Over the next

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will we know if he is not just weeks, it will be a very important

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time. He has said there should be more transparency over the Iranian

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transparent in many regards at the moment. The atomic agency is asking

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for information that is not being given. One test is, in the coming

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information? The information that the international of authority is

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asking for about their nuclear programme. We will be able to form

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a view of this in the coming weeks or months. It is important we test

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their new willingness to talk to us important to find out whether they

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asking, is the nuclear programme really continuing? Are they really

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negotiations and offer something Speaking of being strung along,

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what sanctions would President Assad face if, in six months - the

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Year, Syria still has a chemical weapons arsenal. In the resolution

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we voted through the UN Security Council on Friday night, is the

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Council will take measures under Chapter seven of the UN Charter

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Council will take measures under the event of non-compliance. Does

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that allow full force? I did not catch that. Does that allow for

:16:53.:17:00.

Security Council resolution about Iraq, which most people concluded

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in not allow full force. It does not specify that. It talks about

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terms seven of the charter. That is a message of the whole UN Security

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Council that there will be measures - there will be consequences - if

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the Assad regime does not comply. has a big commitment. I have spent

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counterpart over the last week. Russia has said, this is something

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you will have to do. We will work with Russia and others very closely

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to check there is compliance will this resolution. Given the progress

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that has been made, you must be very glad that the British House of

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Commons stopped your rash to force against Syria. -- rush. The reason

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credible threat of military action. has happened is because there was a

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credible threat of military action. President Obama did not get it

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through Congress. They have not President Obama did not get it

:18:14.:18:20.

the vote in Congress. There is no other explanation as to why the

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policy changed. It was because there was a debate about military

:18:25.:18:30.

action in the West that the policy changed on theirs. That is why it

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changed. We were not in a rush for military action. The boat put to

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the House of Commons was to have inspectors reported. It was before

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Russian and Syrian policy changed. We need to make sure that works

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Russian and Syrian policy changed. practice. Thank you. What do you

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make about this rushing forward with the help to buy scheme which

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was meant to start next year - coming forward mad to the next

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couple of weeks? I think it is a Government having an interest in

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mortgage lending. -- there is a fundamental problem. It should have

:19:28.:19:33.

been set much lower to exclude London and the South East where

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houses are dramatically overvalued. Many economists think freezing

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energy prices is a terrible policy. These policies can be popular. If

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you have no chance of getting a deposit, the Government will make

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Osborne tried every single lever. It looked like he could not do

:19:59.:20:04.

anything to get the economy moving. It is moving. They have pulled it

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forward and there are signs it is recovering. The reason why they

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forward and there are signs it is doing this is they want to show

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this week at the conference there are real sort of understandable

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issues you can explain very simply that really up going to improve

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people's lives. The Conservatives Miliband's speech last week. The

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nuts. Much more cautious and -- language about the energy price

:20:35.:20:49.

freeze. They are nervous that Ed Miliband may be touching a nerve on

:20:49.:20:54.

that one. What we will get this week, I suggest, his Tory populism

:20:54.:21:02.

to counter Miliband populism. I think we will see that and it will

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be a mistake. As long as it is think we will see that and it will

:21:04.:21:10.

about The Picture, they are on relatively strong ground. When the

:21:10.:21:18.

political conversation changes to more fiddly things, particularities

:21:18.:21:20.

standards, things that are some more fiddly things, particularities

:21:20.:21:26.

below that picture, I do not think they can win a bidding war with

:21:26.:21:31.

below that picture, I do not think Labour Party. It is about borrowing

:21:31.:21:31.

against a party that stands for Labour Party. It is about borrowing

:21:31.:21:43.

before the Labour conference, which is unemployment, GDP growth and

:21:43.:21:48.

before the Labour conference, which warming economic picture. That does

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not pay energy bills. Does not sound that the Tories have anything

:21:54.:22:00.

not pay energy bills. Does not to counter the price freeze. --

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not pay energy bills. Does not does not sound. They have had a

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week to think about a great attack line and they do not add anything.

:22:04.:22:09.

the credibility test. Ed Miliband said, if there were a big spike

:22:09.:22:32.

the credibility test. Ed Miliband energy prices, he would not be able

:22:32.:22:33.

it is about credibility. Being seen more than any burst of popularity.

:22:33.:22:52.

with the election campaign, it My worry about the announcement

:22:52.:23:01.

with the election campaign, it begins to lose credibility, begins

:23:01.:23:06.

to seem a banana republic. It looks a lot less wise than it did last

:23:06.:23:12.

week. I disagree. Every time energy bills go up and they will continue

:23:12.:23:14.

to go up, it will be a reminder bills go up and they will continue

:23:14.:23:18.

how much people are being hit in the pockets. People know by energy

:23:19.:23:24.

prices are going up. There is a structural change in the world that

:23:24.:23:28.

was not there before - China and India. These energy companies may

:23:28.:23:33.

be making huge profit but, at the end of the day, what is driving

:23:33.:23:40.

be making huge profit but, at the the cost of fuel is China and India.

:23:40.:23:42.

Ed Miliband, great man that he is, I am not sure he can take on the

:23:42.:23:47.

people Sammir on that one. How dare Labour's Conference in Brighton

:23:47.:23:56.

last week. Dogged by criticism over the summer of his leadership style

:23:56.:23:59.

and lack of policies, Mr Miliband tried to demonstrate his strength

:23:59.:24:02.

of character with a series of bold announcements, and attempted to

:24:02.:24:05.

position himself on the side of ordinary Brits. The Labour leader

:24:05.:24:11.

told party members he would stand up to the strong and take on the

:24:11.:24:13.

vested interests that hold back up to the strong and take on the

:24:13.:24:17.

economy. In a speech in which he jokingly referred to himself as

:24:17.:24:21.

economy. In a speech in which he action hero, Mr Miliband promised

:24:21.:24:22.

to switch the forthcoming business action hero, Mr Miliband promised

:24:22.:24:26.

tax cut from large firms to smaller businesses. He said he would force

:24:26.:24:30.

big firms to train at an apprentice every time they bring in a worker

:24:30.:24:35.

from outside the EU. He hinted that increasing the minimum wage would

:24:35.:24:40.

be increased. He bowed to take on developers with a use it or lose it

:24:40.:24:47.

threat to landowners and pledged to build 200,000 homes each year by

:24:47.:24:52.

2020. He promised to freeze energy prices and reset the energy market.

:24:52.:24:57.

The next Labour government will freeze gas and electricity prices

:24:57.:25:06.

provoked a rash of headlines - hailing the return of red Ed macro.

:25:06.:25:12.

It has also given him a spike in the polls. And Labour's Shadow

:25:12.:25:15.

Ed Miliband says, our energy market is broken and does not work. In

:25:15.:25:33.

what way is that market to date different from the one Labour left

:25:34.:25:42.

companies that dominate the energy generate energy, and sell it on

:25:43.:25:53.

companies that dominate the energy Miliband recognised when he was

:25:54.:25:55.

Secretary of State and asked for more information from the company

:25:55.:25:59.

Secretary of State and asked for is on hold serve costs and profits,

:25:59.:26:01.

all the things we have done to mitigate against that in terms of a

:26:01.:26:05.

warm front programme and everything Horsell market is too secretive

:26:05.:26:13.

warm front programme and everything it is too much about such supply. -

:26:13.:26:16.

- the wholesale market. We have been raising with the Government in

:26:16.:26:18.

a co-operative way the argument been raising with the Government in

:26:18.:26:25.

resetting the market. It has got worse in terms of speed at which

:26:25.:26:31.

prices have gone up. Labour put wholesale and retail together. It

:26:32.:26:34.

was the start this dates back to wholesale and retail together. It

:26:34.:26:40.

was the start this dates back to privatisation. We took some reforms

:26:40.:26:40.

realised it was not working and privatisation. We took some reforms

:26:40.:26:48.

was broken and we need to reset privatisation. We took some reforms

:26:48.:26:50.

Ed Miliband will be the first to onwards. Let's have a look at what

:26:50.:26:55.

happened to energy prices under onwards. Let's have a look at what

:26:55.:26:59.

Labour government. Electricity up 67%, gas up 139%. Overall prices up

:26:59.:27:08.

by 48%. The market was broken and we saw prices biking as wholesale

:27:08.:27:14.

prices went up. The tick action we saw prices biking as wholesale

:27:14.:27:21.

the one Front programme, decent homes for social housing. -- we

:27:21.:27:31.

programme. Trying to do things around social obligations needs

:27:31.:27:35.

programme. Trying to do things be looked at. Gas and electricity

:27:35.:27:43.

presided over but as a consequence of Labour policy. Beds have a look

:27:43.:27:46.

at the breakdown of dual fuel - of Labour policy. Beds have a look

:27:46.:27:52.

and electricity bill. -- let's have a look. The supply costs of getting

:27:52.:27:59.

it to us and so on. The policies government - Green levies - are

:27:59.:28:11.

energy bills. £112 on average bill of 1188. You have put the bill up.

:28:11.:28:24.

obligations amount to £112. That helps the poorest insulate homes.

:28:24.:28:29.

Overwhelmingly, looking at your wholesale costs are worth more than

:28:29.:28:36.

half. What we have seen, based on figures we now have, in Eni macro,

:28:36.:28:43.

a wholesale costs fell by 39% and that was not reflected in our bills.

:28:43.:28:52.

Do you have plans to do anything about the £112? If you took that

:28:52.:28:57.

off, you could cut bills by 10% tomorrow. Or if you were in power.

:28:57.:29:02.

It is important that restimulate energy. It -- we stimulate. If we

:29:02.:29:12.

do not have clean energy, we will be beholden for ever-more to fossil

:29:12.:29:17.

do not have clean energy, we will fuels that are depleting. It will

:29:17.:29:20.

create jobs and bring in investment will start in the last few years,

:29:20.:29:30.

investment. If I could go back to whatever advance there are, looking

:29:30.:29:37.

at whether the money raised through energy companies to deliver energy

:29:38.:29:41.

efficiency, is that doing as well as it might? Could it be better

:29:41.:29:46.

delivered by another agency? They are fair questions. We need to get

:29:46.:29:53.

market. Can we make the market will competitive make sure when there is

:29:53.:29:57.

downward pressure on wholesale prices, that is reflected on our

:29:57.:30:02.

bills? That is the bigger picture argument. Also the freeze to help

:30:02.:30:04.

As you complain about the energy prices, it was as a result of your

:30:04.:30:17.

actions. Ed Miliband introduced prices, it was as a result of your

:30:17.:30:20.

climate change act. He admitted prices would have to rise to pay for

:30:21.:30:27.

decarbonisation. He said, we are going to minimise the costs as much

:30:27.:30:30.

as possible, but it is true there is not a low-cost energy future out

:30:30.:30:35.

there. It is important that we address the pressures on bills,

:30:35.:30:38.

there. It is important that we also recognise that if we are going

:30:38.:30:40.

to build a better future where we can have more home-grown British

:30:40.:30:48.

renewables. Truth is it is about the market. I acknowledge I acknowledge

:30:48.:30:59.

wholesale prices have fallen. They fell in 2009, we got a reduction in

:30:59.:31:08.

bills of 5%. Which are saying that the big companies are overcharging

:31:08.:31:13.

customers. We are seeing profits going up, but we haven't seen the

:31:13.:31:16.

amount of investment suggested by those profits coming through. But

:31:16.:31:24.

because your leader said in his speech in Brighton that Labour will

:31:24.:31:27.

have a world leading commitment speech in Brighton that Labour will

:31:27.:31:31.

Government to take out all carbon from energy generation by 2030.

:31:31.:31:35.

Government to take out all carbon is not that far away. By 2030, no

:31:35.:31:37.

more coal generation, no more gas generation, only much more expensive

:31:37.:31:42.

nuclear and much more expensive without bills going up even further?

:31:42.:31:51.

Hang on a second. The 2030 target to remove carbon from the electricity

:31:51.:31:55.

supply, we have said we should set a target now because, actually, it

:31:55.:31:59.

gives us more time to plan ahead and also allows investment to come in.

:31:59.:32:02.

There is plenty of people with cash in their pockets not want to invest

:32:02.:32:06.

what they are stalling because of the Government's hesitancy over

:32:06.:32:09.

this. I just want a clarification here. My understanding is that your

:32:09.:32:14.

commitment is to get rid of all carbon from power generation by

:32:14.:32:19.

2030? From the letters city supply. Only electricity. We will still

:32:19.:32:23.

2030? From the letters city supply. gas? We have always said we will

:32:23.:32:27.

need gas for decades to come. So we are clear for that. But you will be

:32:27.:32:37.

increasingly dependent on expensive nuclear. EDF are currently demanding

:32:37.:32:41.

twice the market price to build plans in this country. Renewables

:32:41.:32:48.

are two or three times the market price. Bills are going up under

:32:48.:32:55.

are two or three times the market policies? On nuclear, we took a

:32:55.:32:56.

decision under the Labour Government that we needed to revitalise the

:32:56.:33:00.

sector, to hit targets on clean that we needed to revitalise the

:33:00.:33:05.

energy and make sure it can do the heavy lifting. The Government at the

:33:05.:33:08.

discussions with EDF about what heavy lifting. The Government at the

:33:08.:33:14.

important, because I don't know heavy lifting. The Government at the

:33:14.:33:16.

it's going to be, it is important that stands up to scrutiny in terms

:33:16.:33:19.

of value for money. At the same time, I go back to market reforms.

:33:20.:33:26.

difference, the jargon for nuclear, We will not just have a target for

:33:26.:33:32.

difference, the jargon for nuclear, we will have it for renewables as

:33:32.:33:35.

well. That is even more important, that we have a transparent market so

:33:35.:33:36.

that we can have a robust target that we have a transparent market so

:33:36.:33:42.

that we can have a robust target price to be judged against. Michael

:33:42.:33:43.

Gove recognised in question time they used the term cosy cartel.

:33:44.:33:56.

Gove recognised in question time Cameron saying something needs to be

:33:56.:33:58.

done. I'm surprised David Cameron doesn't acknowledge that. You are

:33:58.:34:04.

going to freeze prices for 20 months regulator to replace Ofgem. Will

:34:04.:34:08.

that regulator have the power to regulator to replace Ofgem. Will

:34:08.:34:11.

control prices? The new energy wholesale costs and prices, which it

:34:11.:34:19.

moment. As a result of that it will wholesale costs and prices, which it

:34:19.:34:28.

wholesale prices fall, it can force the energy companies, if they don't,

:34:28.:34:35.

to pass on reductions in bills to consumers. It will not have what we

:34:35.:34:38.

see in some parts of the European Union, 15 of them, that have a

:34:38.:34:43.

variety of price controls that set things at below inflation and what

:34:43.:34:45.

have you. France, Spain, Italy. things at below inflation and what

:34:45.:34:50.

will not do that. Why? Because we are looking at a temporary price

:34:50.:34:54.

freeze to reflect a reduction in are looking at a temporary price

:34:54.:35:00.

British public respite from ever reforms into the market. At the

:35:00.:35:05.

British public respite from ever of this, what we want is a more

:35:05.:35:07.

competitive market that can be trusted, that is more transparent.

:35:07.:35:12.

We do believe it is right that, actually, we need a regulator that

:35:12.:35:16.

has much more of a role in making effectively. Are you accusing energy

:35:16.:35:19.

companies of profiteering? EU I effectively. Are you accusing energy

:35:19.:35:29.

accusing them of overcharging and not passing on wholesale reduction

:35:29.:35:31.

costs to the customer in a fair not passing on wholesale reduction

:35:31.:35:41.

Of making Carter -- cartel profits? I do believe that the level of

:35:42.:35:48.

profits they have passed on to their shareholders is high, compared to

:35:48.:35:51.

the reductions they could have provided to consumers. Let's look at

:35:51.:35:52.

the evidence for that. Here are provided to consumers. Let's look at

:35:53.:35:59.

British owned companies, SSE and Centrica. In the last fiscal year

:35:59.:36:01.

they made combined earnings of Centrica. In the last fiscal year

:36:01.:36:10.

billion. The remaining money went to debt servicing and paying dividends,

:36:10.:36:15.

which go into pension funds. Where profiteering? My figures that I

:36:15.:36:20.

which go into pension funds. Where through their reporting to Ofgem and

:36:20.:36:28.

work done by other organisations, Witch and others, it shows that

:36:28.:36:30.

work done by other organisations, Centrica's case they have something

:36:30.:36:35.

like 8% return in profit margins on the retail side. That goes up to 24%

:36:35.:36:39.

on the generation side. They have passed on, in terms of profits,

:36:39.:36:45.

something I70 4% through evidence to shareholders. But these figures

:36:45.:36:47.

don't show that. They have invested £3 billion. I am reporting what

:36:47.:36:57.

don't show that. They have invested been reported by Ofgem. Ofgem has

:36:57.:37:01.

They may well be, but we don't have the evidence. I would accuse Ofgem

:37:01.:37:03.

of not doing the job they should be of not doing the job they should be

:37:03.:37:06.

doing, and they have held back from across the big six, something like

:37:06.:37:16.

dividends to shareholders. In Centrica's case it is 74%. On the

:37:16.:37:22.

Centrica example, even though they have had the highest profit margins,

:37:22.:37:28.

they have invested the least. It is fair to question. We are running out

:37:28.:37:34.

of time. None of us really know what the true price of energy is that is

:37:34.:37:39.

Labour's policy to reform his crucial. That is because he merged

:37:39.:37:42.

the market and we can't tell the difference. If they continue putting

:37:43.:37:46.

prices up, even after your price freeze, if they don't invest in a

:37:46.:37:51.

way that they do, do you rule out wholesale nationalisation?

:37:51.:37:54.

Absolutely. I want a more competitive market and that is why

:37:54.:37:59.

we are resetting it. You are watching Sunday Politics. Coming up

:37:59.:38:02.

in just over 20 minutes I will be looking at the week ahead with our

:38:02.:38:04.

In the East Midlands, can Europe political panel

:38:04.:38:18.

In the East Midlands, can Europe help us to fight online abuse of our

:38:18.:38:22.

children and we asked the premise of the big question, is he really a

:38:22.:38:26.

cross between John Wayne and Alan Partridge? You do describe as a lots

:38:26.:38:31.

of things in this job, I hope I'm a bit more John Wayne than Alan

:38:31.:38:36.

Partridge. My guess this week are two East Midland MEPs, Emma Clarke a

:38:36.:38:42.

Conservative, and Dennis Wilcock, a Labour voice. We are discussing ways

:38:42.:38:51.

in which the party can win more votes. It is a debate being held by

:38:51.:38:55.

the Loughborough Conservative MP Vicky Morgan who say that women in

:38:55.:38:58.

the party needs to be more assertive when it comes to the rising Wallasey

:38:58.:39:02.

and with two guests in the studio today, it is a good time to talk

:39:02.:39:07.

about women in politics. Cosmic does Nicky Morgan have a point?

:39:07.:39:11.

Absolutely, she is a great role model herself and we need to see

:39:11.:39:14.

more women in decision—making roles in political life and that is

:39:14.:39:19.

definitely why I wanted to be elected as a young woman to prove

:39:19.:39:23.

they could be done and will hopefully inspire others. Guinea to

:39:23.:39:28.

make your voice heard? You certainly do, it is not always easy but you

:39:28.:39:32.

need to do that. We have only got only four Cabinet ministers are out

:39:32.:39:39.

of 23 and that is not a good example. You are saying things have

:39:39.:39:44.

not improved? Aye not as much. Bodice putting women off —— what is

:39:44.:39:54.

putting women off? I think it is the traditional roles, the women at home

:39:54.:40:00.

looking after the family, and the man is doing something else, washing

:40:00.:40:03.

and ironing, cooking and cleaning while he is doing politics. We go

:40:03.:40:08.

home and have to do all of that as well, we need to prove it can be

:40:08.:40:16.

done. Do you watch together as women across party boundaries? It depends

:40:16.:40:21.

on the subject. We have different political views but where we can

:40:21.:40:26.

work together, we do. Together we want to see more women in politics.

:40:26.:40:31.

In the European Parliament it is better for women. We have 35% women

:40:31.:40:34.

MEPs which is higher than Westminster. What are they doing

:40:34.:40:43.

write there? Westminster is a bearpit and European politics is

:40:43.:40:47.

about consensus and cooperation. That is something that women can do

:40:47.:40:51.

very well. It is less macho? Absolutely. The Prime Minister has

:40:51.:40:58.

been speaking about job losses and house—building in the East Midlands

:40:58.:41:02.

in an interview with John has, he spoke of the 1600 job losses

:41:02.:41:07.

announced at Derbyshire county council this week. He began by

:41:07.:41:12.

discussing plans of house—building. On the issue of housing, the Housing

:41:12.:41:16.

Federation says the East Midlands is only building 45% of the homes that

:41:16.:41:20.

the region needs. It supported Ed Miliband's badge for 200,000 homes

:41:21.:41:24.

by the end of a Labour government and already we are hearing from

:41:24.:41:31.

Conservative MPs in marginal seats saying not in my backyard. Where is

:41:31.:41:36.

this going to be sorted out? We are sorting it out, we are a reforming

:41:36.:41:41.

the priming system —— planning system. We are introducing a help to

:41:41.:41:47.

buy scheme so mortgages are unlocked for people that need to buy a house

:41:47.:41:50.

or move home who can't get a mortgage. The economy is recovering

:41:50.:41:55.

and that helps the housing market. These problems are being addressed.

:41:55.:42:01.

Are your MPs in those seats right to put up opposition to new housing

:42:01.:42:05.

development? People are right to say that this needs to be determined

:42:05.:42:08.

locally and planning authorities should make decisions. My view is

:42:08.:42:12.

that when you trust local councils what you find is that if they are

:42:13.:42:16.

given the choice, they do build the houses but they try to make sure

:42:16.:42:19.

they are building a way that people support. That is what we are putting

:42:19.:42:23.

in place and I am confident we will get the housing we need. On

:42:23.:42:29.

government cuts, this is the Derbyshire Times headline this week,

:42:29.:42:33.

we have not known anything like this since the great depression.

:42:33.:42:36.

Derbyshire are saying that 1600 jobs need to go, unprecedented cuts, that

:42:36.:42:41.

is not coming from the Labour leader, that is coming from the

:42:41.:42:45.

chief executive. They are trying to play a blame game. Everyone watching

:42:45.:42:51.

the programme knows we have a budget deficit and we cannot be beyond our

:42:51.:42:54.

means, we have had to make cuts, cuts in central and local

:42:54.:42:57.

government, when you look at the cuts that they are being asked to

:42:57.:43:02.

make, they are relatively modest. They can be done. I would praise

:43:02.:43:06.

local councils for what they have done so far to make efficiencies

:43:06.:43:09.

without hitting front line services. They can go on doing that. You will

:43:09.:43:13.

be aware that the leader of Leicestershire Nick Rushton has met

:43:13.:43:18.

with Conservative MPs say that his authorities cannot take any more

:43:18.:43:23.

cuts. I don't accept that, local councils has shown that they can

:43:23.:43:25.

find efficiencies, the pay freeze we are put in place has made sure that

:43:25.:43:29.

we are keeping people in work, we are providing good services, it is

:43:29.:43:33.

of course difficult, the extra cuts that are being asked for our

:43:33.:43:38.

moderate —— modest. 2.3%. It is not impossible. One of the MPs described

:43:38.:43:47.

you as a disturbing cocktail of Alan Partridge and John Wayne. Yellow mac

:43:47.:43:52.

you get the scrubbers a lot of things in the job. I hope I'm a bit

:43:52.:43:54.

mode John Wayne that Alan Partridge. We could not help but wonder but

:43:54.:44:06.

wonder what that mix would look like. That is what he looks like. I

:44:06.:44:16.

was a bit scary? It is very scary. I can see Alan Partridge. He did take

:44:16.:44:28.

it well. The reason why I made that comment is because I am fed up of

:44:28.:44:32.

him making one, in Brussels and something else at home. It is time

:44:32.:44:35.

to have transparency. Emma, David Cameron was asked about job losses

:44:35.:44:43.

by L political addict 's so that everybody was basing the having to

:44:43.:44:50.

make cuts. Some of the cuts made in the East Midlands are savage.

:44:50.:44:58.

Councils have difficult decisions to take right now and they need to find

:44:58.:45:07.

ways to make those cost savings. The previous administration had put in

:45:08.:45:12.

place very, very. You make it sound so easy. It is the change in

:45:12.:45:18.

administration. They have overspent by 10.5 billion. USA team made the

:45:18.:45:28.

situation worse. What do you think Linus? I think it is difficult. The

:45:28.:45:38.

amount of money that councils are getting is being cut. Some leaders

:45:38.:45:43.

in councils are asking where they should cut. Prices are going up and

:45:43.:45:46.

wages are going down, it is not easy. David Cameron is talking about

:45:46.:45:52.

housing, he wants more housing which is something that Labour has pledged

:45:52.:46:01.

as well. We have got dozens of disputes going off here. People do

:46:01.:46:08.

need houses and it is up to the local councils to determine the

:46:08.:46:12.

planning regulations, I think people can come to a compromise, there are

:46:12.:46:16.

many young people, desperate for housing for wanting to get onto the

:46:16.:46:19.

housing ladder, we need to build houses. We are absolutely desperate

:46:19.:46:27.

for them. You are both European MPs. The European —— do it is like

:46:27.:46:35.

housing have an impact on the work that you do? You would be amazed

:46:35.:46:43.

about the people that write to us about all different issues. We

:46:43.:46:52.

always keep L I only region. That has a European angle and how we are

:46:52.:47:01.

developing. How we have greatly and will develop jobs. And how we can

:47:01.:47:04.

develop houses. And have the infrastructure to support them. What

:47:04.:47:17.

about you? I have been pushing for a youth club —— youth job guarantee,

:47:17.:47:28.

it is something that we have pursued since last year. We have got a fund

:47:28.:47:33.

to help young people into a job. We see the devastation that

:47:33.:47:36.

unemployment causes. Does the rest of Europe have arguments like that?

:47:36.:47:48.

We have a region as Europe to see how Europe is developing. Will this

:47:48.:47:59.

affect your chances next election? Everything with the political angle

:47:59.:48:04.

has an impact but we need to commit to voters ourselves but we have the

:48:04.:48:08.

right line with European policy. You can understand that people are

:48:08.:48:10.

worried about how things are affecting them. How old is affecting

:48:10.:48:13.

their family. There is a strong anti—European sentiment coming out

:48:13.:48:17.

of the UK from UKIP and the Conservative party, how does it go

:48:17.:48:21.

down in Brussels? The matter we have got their attention in the UK, we

:48:21.:48:24.

have strong feelings about our relationship with the European

:48:24.:48:26.

Union. I think it is absolutely right that we stop and take stock of

:48:26.:48:29.

where we are. I want all those decisions that Guiness was talking

:48:29.:48:31.

about to be taking here in the UK and as local as possible. That is

:48:31.:48:34.

the problem with Brussels, it wants to take more powers and

:48:34.:48:36.

decision—making away to Brussels and further away from the people. Some

:48:36.:48:39.

of the Conservative MPs said it were to leave Europe, what do you say?

:48:39.:48:42.

That Britain decide. David Cameron has promised us a referendum on our

:48:42.:48:45.

future relationship with the European Union and that is what we

:48:45.:48:48.

need. David Cameron is clear that it is in Britain's interest to remain

:48:48.:48:51.

in Europe. If we have a debate, let's have a debate on the facts

:48:51.:48:54.

rather than the rhetoric that we here. Quite often what we hear from

:48:54.:48:56.

UKIP and from some of the Conservative party is not actually

:48:56.:48:59.

factual. What Halifax? If you look at the government website every

:48:59.:49:03.

family in this country that every family is 1102 £3500 better off each

:49:03.:49:07.

year because we are part of Europe, you don't hear that from the

:49:07.:49:10.

Conservative party. Why not? We are paying in 13 billion to be part of

:49:10.:49:13.

the European Union, the British people do not feel they are getting

:49:13.:49:16.

their money 's work and we are a more net contributor then we receive

:49:16.:49:18.

benefits from the European Union. People want to feel they are in

:49:18.:49:21.

control of their destiny and everyday DC the European

:49:21.:49:22.

decision—making creeping into everyday lives, they do not like it.

:49:23.:49:27.

That is nonsense. On the government website, it is not me saying that,

:49:27.:49:30.

that is the government figures, every family is £1100 better at

:49:30.:49:36.

least every year. That is a lot of money to lose. The conference season

:49:36.:49:44.

is well and do —— underway. Last week it was Labour. John has spent

:49:44.:49:53.

the week there. He sent us a postcard of how the East Midlands

:49:53.:49:57.

has fared in Brighton. When a big party conference suites

:49:57.:50:01.

into town, is just the politicians that want to make way. Others want

:50:01.:50:05.

to grab your attention to, sometimes that requires a bit of a sweetener.

:50:05.:50:10.

A bowl suites to tempt Labour delegates inside the conference

:50:10.:50:15.

centre the font from —— the Montford University has a stand in the

:50:15.:50:20.

exhibition call and that is unusual. We see ourselves as a

:50:20.:50:26.

forward—thinking university, we have a square mile that we are proud of

:50:26.:50:30.

which we share our work with the divinity and we want profile that

:50:30.:50:33.

and we want to be opinion formers and tell them of the work we are

:50:33.:50:37.

doing. Stress busting toys are on offer here and that is a must for

:50:37.:50:42.

some delegates. This organisation advises councils on improving local

:50:42.:50:46.

services and its chairman is a senior nodding City Councillor.

:50:46.:50:53.

Looking at work with environmental energy and solar panels. There is a

:50:53.:50:57.

great deal of influence that we can bring from Nottingham and

:50:57.:51:01.

experience. You are enjoying it? Yes. You will find no greybeards

:51:01.:51:15.

here, young Labour candidates. It is the first conference on many of

:51:15.:51:20.

them. I met Ed Miliband at one of the conference reception is the

:51:20.:51:23.

other day, I was happy to medium, hopefully he will be a next

:51:23.:51:30.

reminiscent. Inside the hall itself, even in old conference held

:51:30.:51:37.

struggled. Keith chairing a morning session. A union delegate wanted a

:51:37.:51:42.

debate on rail safety and plenty derail the morning agenda. Thank you

:51:42.:51:47.

for making it an easy start for me chairing the session this morning.

:51:47.:51:50.

It has taken me about ten years to get here. You have made it

:51:50.:51:56.

worthwhile. I am grateful. They could take much longer for high

:51:56.:52:00.

speed to derive —— to arrive in the East Midlands after the shadow

:52:00.:52:02.

chancellor warned about rising costs. Whether it is the best way to

:52:02.:52:11.

spend £50 billion. Has led a fall out of love with the high—speed

:52:12.:52:16.

project? We think there is a strong case for a new North, South line,

:52:16.:52:24.

but ministers have mismanaged the project and got cost to God to £51

:52:24.:52:27.

billion. It cannot be a blank cheque on the project. After a few sunny

:52:27.:52:32.

days in Brighton, it is time for the Conservatives in Manchester. Is

:52:32.:52:38.

there a beach nearby? John will be providing us with his

:52:38.:52:42.

insights from Manchester next week. With that conference, you are a

:52:42.:52:47.

chairing a debate Emma on online abuse. That is a big issue here.

:52:47.:52:54.

When a child is sexually abused, it affects them for life. When they are

:52:54.:53:02.

filmed or photographed being sexually abused, it leaves them

:53:02.:53:06.

feeling exploited. That is eight charity called the Internet watch

:53:06.:53:08.

foundation which is fighting the exploitation of children on the

:53:08.:53:12.

Internet. Emma is hosting a fringe debate on taking European stance

:53:12.:53:19.

against child abuse. It is something I feel passionate about and I hope I

:53:19.:53:24.

can raise the profile of this issue that we have with child protection.

:53:24.:53:27.

We need to stop our children being exploited online, we need to stop

:53:27.:53:32.

this illegal content from being available through the Internet and

:53:32.:53:35.

we need to tackle that. We are doing that here in the UK but we need to

:53:35.:53:40.

tackle this because it is a borderless problem because the

:53:40.:53:42.

Internet is borderless. What are you hoping to achieve? We need to raise

:53:43.:53:50.

the priorities for government is not only in the UK where we are doing

:53:50.:53:57.

that but also recognise that this is a global problem that we need to

:53:57.:54:00.

work together with people in other countries in the European Union, but

:54:00.:54:04.

wider in America, in Africa, in India where all of the children are

:54:04.:54:09.

being abused, and it is being recycled through the Internet. How

:54:09.:54:13.

important could Europe beyond this, how much of a help could Europe be?

:54:13.:54:19.

Any sides in Europe are taken down, of course, you may have a country

:54:19.:54:23.

like Russia or the US that are hosting the websites, that makes it

:54:23.:54:27.

difficult. I rated Theresa May in March asking her to sign the

:54:27.:54:32.

Lanzarote Convention which is about international cooperation so that

:54:32.:54:39.

sex offenders could be prosecuted no matter where they are offending. You

:54:39.:54:42.

can have someone from Britain go to another country and go for sex

:54:42.:54:49.

offending and they come back and not the prosecuted and will not be on

:54:49.:54:52.

the sex offender list. That is wrong. What reply did you get?

:54:52.:54:58.

Womack it was noncommittal. We need more protection for children, it

:54:58.:55:04.

doesn't matter where children are. We should be able to prosecute sex

:55:04.:55:08.

offenders. Is one of the problems of the vulnerable people is that so

:55:08.:55:13.

many countries speak English, so a lot of children in the country are

:55:13.:55:16.

being targeted from all over the world? These images are shared

:55:16.:55:23.

globally when they are available, we need to make sure that we are

:55:23.:55:27.

collecting the information. People are not reporting. We need to make

:55:27.:55:31.

sure that people report that they stumble upon these images. They can

:55:31.:55:34.

do that anonymously, through the Internet watch foundation outline.

:55:35.:55:38.

They will share the information if it is a UK website hosting that.

:55:38.:55:43.

They will shut down in 60 minutes. If it is an international one, they

:55:43.:55:48.

will pass that information to law enforcement. This is where we need

:55:48.:55:52.

to have a global alliance, there is a —— an agreement in place to tackle

:55:52.:55:57.

this globally. How prevalent is this? How big is the problem? Is a

:55:57.:56:02.

big problem and Labour MEPs have been arguing that we should be able

:56:02.:56:05.

to block the site in the European level. We should be able to block

:56:05.:56:10.

the site whether it is Russia or America, it is controversial, people

:56:10.:56:13.

do not like that. It is something that we must seriously look at. What

:56:13.:56:18.

do other countries do about online child abuse. How do they deal with

:56:18.:56:19.

the issue? Some are not as double —— developed

:56:19.:56:27.

as others, in African countries, I hosted a conference on the European

:56:27.:56:30.

Parliament to tackle the problem and they say they do not have the

:56:30.:56:34.

facilities to run the hotline is that you do. They are sharing the

:56:34.:56:38.

best practice of the UK of how we collect information, how we use it

:56:38.:56:41.

to shut down these websites, how we can use it to lock these websites.

:56:41.:56:45.

We must have every tool available to us to do so and we are leading the

:56:45.:56:50.

way in this but we need to help these other countries get on board

:56:50.:56:53.

and make sure they are using the full force of law.

:56:53.:56:59.

How was your view all of this, do they think we are obsessed? Is

:56:59.:57:05.

illegal across Europe, it any sites are taken down. Unimpeded as a

:57:05.:57:13.

problem there, it is about the sites from other countries. That is what

:57:13.:57:21.

we should be pursuing. It sounds like European cooperation is key

:57:21.:57:27.

here. I am glad to hear that Glenys and her Labour MPs are supporting

:57:27.:57:32.

this. Other elements of the group that you represented not vote to

:57:32.:57:40.

allow blocking the European use of children in sexual exploitation.

:57:40.:57:47.

Other countries in Europe. There are people from certain countries across

:57:47.:57:50.

a political spectrum that do not want it. That is because a past

:57:50.:57:56.

history and things like that. They feel that it is impinging on

:57:56.:58:02.

people's freedoms. I don't think that is correct. I think the

:58:02.:58:05.

majority of my group do not agree with that. There are people from all

:58:05.:58:11.

political spectrum is that feel that way. Particularly the French. Nobody

:58:11.:58:18.

can believe that they will not use every single tool that they have

:58:18.:58:22.

possible to stop these images from being circulated. It astounds me. We

:58:22.:58:31.

need to work together. Is also linked to the human trafficking

:58:31.:58:35.

issue. We need to have strong legislation in place to prevent all

:58:35.:58:38.

these things and we are very keen that we block these sites. A lot of

:58:38.:58:45.

interest in your debate. Time for a round—up of the other political

:58:45.:58:56.

stories in the East Midlands. Bin collections are causing a bit of

:58:56.:59:00.

a stink this week on a conservative led North West council is asking to

:59:00.:59:08.

charge people to have their bins collected. In Derby, the Tories have

:59:08.:59:15.

found a scrap for a bin charge where people will be forced to hand out

:59:15.:59:20.

next April if they take the next election. In Leicestershire there is

:59:20.:59:25.

the end of October to bid for a share of £100,000 grant and a

:59:25.:59:31.

bruised —— boosting the economy. The first round supported a range of

:59:31.:59:33.

initiatives including children was like farm and a cider company.

:59:33.:59:39.

Nottinghamshire county council has been chosen as a Lib Dem candidate

:59:39.:59:46.

for Parliament. Jason who was born and brought up in Ashfield will take

:59:46.:59:57.

on Labour's candidate. Gloria der Pierro. What else do you have coming

:59:57.:00:06.

up in Europe that we need to know about? I have a busy time

:00:06.:00:11.

negotiating with governments to try and make it more streamlined, easier

:00:11.:00:17.

and quicker to obtain trials for people with cancer. It is very

:00:17.:00:21.

important. I have got months of negotiations will stop good luck.

:00:21.:00:30.

What about you, Emma? We have a big vote coming up in October. There is

:00:30.:00:33.

a mouthful. Within it, there is a piece of legislation that has an

:00:33.:00:38.

alert mechanism so that as someone has been struck off for now

:00:38.:00:43.

practised in one —— malpractice in one country they will also be

:00:43.:00:48.

alerted in this country. You have of course have an election next May?

:00:48.:00:51.

Heavey started campaigning? Absolutely. It goes so quick. All of

:00:51.:00:58.

a sudden you will know it is there. We are ahead for this campaign. It

:00:58.:01:01.

will be a interesting campaign. We are ahead for this campaign. It

:01:01.:01:06.

and Emily Thornberry. Back to you, Andrew.

:01:06.:01:19.

So, we'll David Cameron's marriage tax break win over voters? How will

:01:19.:01:25.

So, we'll David Cameron's marriage conference initiatives? And what is

:01:25.:01:36.

UKIP leader Nigel FarageFarage up to with the Tories in Manchester?

:01:36.:01:41.

On this business of a possible Tory- UKIP pact, in a general election,

:01:41.:01:56.

let's see what David Cameron had to say about that earlier. I am not

:01:56.:02:02.

looking for a packed. I think we need to give people a clear choice

:02:02.:02:05.

at the general election. The British economy has turned a corner. We

:02:05.:02:09.

at the general election. The British on the right track, we are seeing

:02:09.:02:12.

more jobs, new businesses, we are beginning to get things moving

:02:12.:02:15.

again. Do you want to stick with us, hard-working people, or do you want

:02:15.:02:20.

to put it at risk with Ed Miliband hard-working people, or do you want

:02:20.:02:25.

and his crazy plans to tax business out of existence? That was the Prime

:02:25.:02:32.

there any appetite on the UKIP side discussions around the country,

:02:32.:02:39.

there any appetite on the UKIP side would say no. It's being discussed,

:02:39.:02:50.

is the media that is pushing this. It has reflected what has happened

:02:50.:02:53.

conference season began. Labour It has reflected what has happened

:02:53.:02:59.

trying to reclaim what I would call position. I'm not sure what the

:02:59.:03:05.

Liberal Democrats or two, but the Conservatives are trying to react to

:03:05.:03:11.

accusation they are lurching more to the right, which the media wants to

:03:11.:03:16.

able to do some sort of pact with interpret as them possibly being

:03:16.:03:20.

able to do some sort of pact with UKIP. Have you given any thought to

:03:20.:03:26.

whatsoever. It is not on the radar. I have read comments, including

:03:26.:03:33.

Carswell, the Eurosceptics, that they might form a potential, let's

:03:33.:03:39.

call it, you know, cabinet. If there were UKIP members, I don't doubt

:03:39.:03:43.

that Nigel Farage would be one of them. But I would reiterate it is

:03:43.:03:46.

not discussions that are taking place. I am thinking more of an

:03:46.:03:54.

have responded to that by saying, the moment, there are no ongoing

:03:54.:03:58.

discussions. There is certainly constituency level or coming out of

:03:58.:04:05.

believe any constituencies are Eurosceptics? I am not privy to

:04:05.:04:14.

believe any constituencies are all 360 constituencies might be

:04:14.:04:17.

discussing. All I can do is give you the example of the few I have seen

:04:17.:04:22.

and know it is not on the agenda. Without a pact, it is perfectly

:04:22.:04:24.

possible that you could fail to Without a pact, it is perfectly

:04:24.:04:29.

a single seat at the next election, but put Ed Miliband into Downing

:04:29.:04:34.

Street? Categorically not. There are a number of seats out there that are

:04:34.:04:36.

very clear marginals, just like a number of seats out there that are

:04:36.:04:53.

Izzard was. I believe there could be an MP -- just like Eastleigh was. If

:04:53.:04:58.

you take enough votes away from an MP -- just like Eastleigh was. If

:04:58.:05:02.

Tories, if you make sure that Labour wins? I will go back to the comment

:05:02.:05:07.

I made. If you take Eastleigh as an example, a Liberal Democrat held

:05:07.:05:12.

seat, even after that result, does not mean that UKIP is suddenly going

:05:12.:05:17.

to be focusing on Tory seats. We are out there because people resonate

:05:17.:05:21.

with our message. For the Liberal Democrats to make it abundantly

:05:21.:05:24.

clear that they will not support a referendum, that they will not

:05:24.:05:27.

support any discussion on leaving the queue, that could be a big

:05:27.:05:31.

turn-off for voters. David Cameron says there is not going to be a

:05:31.:05:33.

pact, Diane James says there is says there is not going to be a

:05:33.:05:37.

going to be one. There might be says there is not going to be a

:05:37.:05:39.

or at a constituency level. But says there is not going to be a

:05:39.:05:41.

seems clear to me that there will not be a national one. So, does

:05:41.:05:46.

David Cameron have a UKIP strategy? The only encouraging thing for

:05:46.:05:49.

UKIP's successful David Cameron that the moment that he would only

:05:49.:05:51.

that their support is so enormous that the moment that he would only

:05:51.:05:55.

really need to win back maybe a third or a quarter of its to make a

:05:55.:05:58.

decisive difference to the Tory share of the vote in 2015. The

:05:58.:06:02.

question becomes, how much of that UKIP support is up for grabs? A

:06:02.:06:07.

question becomes, how much of that last week suggested that 47% of

:06:07.:06:09.

current UKIP voters would consider voting Tory if it meant preventing

:06:09.:06:13.

Ed Miliband becoming Prime Minister. That number goes up to 57% against

:06:13.:06:19.

recovery. So, plausibly, there is secondary question is, what does

:06:19.:06:25.

David Cameron do to win over those people? He has tried a Europe will

:06:25.:06:29.

referendum and it didn't work. He tried travelling up his immigration

:06:29.:06:33.

policy and that didn't work. I wonder if it is time. You wait until

:06:33.:06:38.

the run-up to 2015, when they start to focus on the explicit choice

:06:38.:06:44.

Cameron, and that is what shifts a Cameron. We heard from William Hague

:06:44.:06:52.

earlier in the programme, the Tory line is that if you vote UKIP you

:06:52.:06:56.

could end up with Ed Miliband in Downing Street. That is the simple

:06:56.:07:01.

appeal, isn't it? Yes, and I think Diane is right, I think the European

:07:01.:07:08.

elections will show a good showing for UKIP. It is deemed the one where

:07:08.:07:12.

you can play away. I think it will be hard for people to get excited

:07:12.:07:14.

about that, I think that bounce be hard for people to get excited

:07:14.:07:20.

fade away. In Eastleigh, they had a good ground game, that is difficult

:07:20.:07:26.

for UKIP, that don't have that machinery sorted. How are they going

:07:26.:07:28.

to fund that operation? But the machinery sorted. How are they going

:07:28.:07:33.

bounce could fade away after the European elections. Even if they go

:07:33.:07:39.

election, they are still immensely dangerous to the Conservative Party.

:07:39.:07:43.

But there is really only two things David Cameron can do. One is to

:07:43.:07:47.

But there is really only two things boring and talk about helping people

:07:47.:07:49.

with their mortgage, helping with bread and butter issues. The second

:07:49.:07:54.

thing is, those European actions, he tends to the natural Conservative

:07:54.:07:57.

voters and says, you have had your fun, next year do you want me or Ed

:07:57.:07:59.

Miliband us your prime and? The fun, next year do you want me or Ed

:07:59.:08:03.

danger with David Cameron is saying, of course, there is not going to be

:08:03.:08:07.

a pact, the danger is you will get a repeat of the 1977 election. John

:08:07.:08:13.

Major said, famously, do not bind my hands. A series of Conservative

:08:13.:08:19.

personally rule out membership of the euro, when the Conservative

:08:19.:08:24.

membership was wait and see. That looked like a Prime Minister not in

:08:24.:08:25.

charge of his party. The danger looked like a Prime Minister not in

:08:25.:08:32.

Let's assume you do really well looked like a Prime Minister not in

:08:32.:08:34.

the European actions and there is a widespread expectation that you

:08:34.:08:41.

will, even in Downing Street. They might be managing expectations.

:08:41.:08:45.

will, even in Downing Street. They stops you fading away as the general

:08:45.:08:47.

election approaches? A number of reasons. As has been mentioned,

:08:47.:08:50.

election approaches? A number of whole issue of the referendum pledge

:08:50.:08:52.

has been proved to be an absolute nonsense. It is so contingent on if

:08:52.:08:59.

I am re-elected, if it's not a coalition government, is, if, if.

:08:59.:09:07.

That was fooled nobody. The issue of where voters are coming from, it is

:09:07.:09:08.

because they have lost faith in where voters are coming from, it is

:09:08.:09:12.

David Cameron says. There is nothing he is going to say that is convince

:09:12.:09:19.

think that is my view and the view of a lot of UKIP. I am told that

:09:19.:09:29.

the fringes? It is a great scoop, on the front page. They are outside the

:09:29.:09:33.

ring of steel. Even so, they won't programme, so they must be worried

:09:33.:09:38.

paid money for adverts in the Tory about something. His people have

:09:38.:09:43.

paid money for adverts in the Tory brochure and his name has been taken

:09:43.:09:43.

out. Speaking of people the Tory brochure and his name has been taken

:09:43.:09:48.

leadership is worried about, Boris Johnson, are we in any doubt as

:09:48.:09:53.

leadership is worried about, Boris interview that he is now beginning

:09:53.:09:59.

his long march back to Parliament? He does express feeling slightly sad

:09:59.:10:01.

during the Syria debate that he He does express feeling slightly sad

:10:01.:10:04.

not there, on the political front line to participate. I still do

:10:04.:10:10.

not there, on the political front see why it is in his interest is to

:10:10.:10:14.

move before 2015. No, I don't think he will move before, I think he

:10:14.:10:17.

move before 2015. No, I don't think sending a signal to the existing

:10:17.:10:17.

Tories in the Commons that when sending a signal to the existing

:10:17.:10:29.

Me Dave goes, I will be back? He has the Vince Cable problem, if you

:10:29.:10:33.

Me Dave goes, I will be back? He has the same thing too many times,

:10:33.:10:36.

people get bored and factor it in. The interesting thing is him saying

:10:36.:10:40.

that people have seven years before the electorate get bored of them. He

:10:40.:10:45.

might be cresting that. He doesn't want to be Prime Minister, he is

:10:45.:10:48.

much more ambitious than that. He wants to be an emperor. He was

:10:48.:10:56.

asked, which Roman emperor would you like to be compared to? You said,

:10:56.:11:02.

important. I don't think you are thinking big enough. See what I

:11:02.:11:09.

important. I don't think you are to put up with, every Sunday? By

:11:09.:11:09.

virtue of being born in the US, to put up with, every Sunday? By

:11:09.:11:14.

could be president. Unlike Arnold Schwarzenegger. How about a deal

:11:14.:11:24.

with Boris? He has made no secret, after Eastleigh, that he would be

:11:24.:11:27.

open to a discussion. Let's call it no more than a discussion. He has

:11:27.:11:31.

been adamant, however, he does not see any reason, any justification or

:11:31.:11:36.

any opportunity where he would be able to have that discourse with

:11:36.:11:42.

any opportunity where he would be David Cameron. Maybe it comes down

:11:42.:11:45.

to that on both sides. I've no idea. We know that the Tories will be

:11:45.:11:49.

to that on both sides. I've no idea. more Eurosceptic after the next

:11:49.:11:52.

election? I can't imagine David Cameron's successor will be somebody

:11:52.:11:56.

that supports EU membership in ideological direction of the party.

:11:56.:12:04.

The leadership contest will be about 2018. If you are standing, when

:12:04.:12:05.

this is a great deal for Britain membership, are you going to say

:12:05.:12:12.

this is a great deal for Britain because the Prime Minister has

:12:12.:12:14.

turned to leave rapid change two words in the working Time directive,

:12:15.:12:17.

turned to leave rapid change two or are you going to become a leader

:12:17.:12:20.

by saying, I want out? What would be a good conference for David Cameron

:12:20.:12:32.

eye-catching announcement related to living standards. May be a clearer

:12:32.:12:36.

line on energy prices? That would certainly help, that fightback has

:12:36.:12:41.

been rubbish so far. The thing we should be looking out for are not

:12:41.:12:44.

the polls immediately after, but the ones about the end of October, when

:12:44.:12:48.

everything gets to settle down and then we will see what happens. In a

:12:48.:12:53.

word, what is Nigel Farage out to get at the Tory conference? What is

:12:53.:12:57.

he doing, other than mischief? I could almost say revenge. Revenge on

:12:57.:13:05.

Mr Cameron? Yes. You know? Lord Ashcroft was there at the Labour

:13:05.:13:11.

conference. You call it mischief, but there is every reason why he

:13:11.:13:15.

should be there. We all call it mischief. Thanks for being with

:13:15.:13:19.

should be there. We all call it Join me on Daily Politics for live

:13:19.:13:22.

coverage of the Conservative Party conference tomorrow morning from

:13:22.:13:26.

11:30 on BBC Two. We will bring conference tomorrow morning from

:13:26.:13:30.

George Osborne's speech live and uninterrupted. I'll be back next

:13:30.:13:34.

weekend when guests will include former Conservative Chancellor

:13:34.:13:35.

Kenneth Clarke. Remember, if it former Conservative Chancellor

:13:35.:13:38.

Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

:13:38.:13:41.

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