22/09/2013 Sunday Politics East Midlands

Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband and the

rest of the Labour clan are in Brighton for their party conference

this weekend. He's promised policies galore. But as a Sunday Politics

poll finds a third of his own councillors don't think he's doing a

good job, will that be enough to steady the Labour ship?

Back in Westminster, they're partying like it's 2006, as Damian

McBride's memoirs re-ignite the Blair-Brown wars. Alastair Campbell

will tell us why he is sickened by the former Brown spin doctor.

And speaking of political infighting, Conservative Party

Chairman Grant Shapps will give his response to the rampant Tory-bashing

In the East Midlands, praise for our at the Lib Dem Conference

In the East Midlands, praise for our politicians for their role in

helping a community cope with five shocking deaths in one city.

business. In London, Labour commands over the two thirds of the ethnic

minority vote but now stands accused of institutional racism. Are they

right? With me, the best and the brightest political panel in the

business. Isabel Hardman, Janan be tweeting like demented Damians

throughout the programme. First today, scrapping the bedroom tax.

Universal childcare for primary school kids. More apprenticeships.

Labour Conference only begins in earnest today, but the policy and

spending commitments are coming according to the Labour leader's

critics. He's been out and about this morning and told Andrew Marr

that he knew it was going to be this morning and told Andrew Marr

It is about a party that lost office three years ago. We are trying to be

a one term opposition. That is tough. I believe it is a fight that

we can win and I am up for that fight. The stakes are so high for

young people who want a job, for people whose living standards are

being squeezed. For people who think that this is not good enough for

Britain. So what do key Labour Party activists - its councillors - think

about the direction Mr Miliband activists - its councillors - think

taking their party? Adam Fleming is in Brighton at the Party Conference

with all the details of our latest exclusive Sunday Politics survey.

conference set. Let us unwrap them. With the help of an opinion poll we

surveyed 1350 Labour councillors across England and Wales. We wanted

to find out what they think as Labour gathers for its conference.

The Labour leader warmed up for Labour gathers for its conference.

week by taking to his soap box in Brighton city centre. It is great

week by taking to his soap box in councillors said they did not think

Ed Miliband was doing a good job as leader. 30% said they thought the

party would have a better chance if someone else was in charge at the

next election. You will see more of Ed Miliband as we run-up to general

election. He has been in the job for three years! Now it is crunch time.

The other Ed, Ed Balls, was disliked by roughly one third of the party as

well. Ed Balls is not a pop your man. He says things and he speaks

his mind. -- not a popular man. diplomatic. Sadly Ed Balls did not

seem to be that bothered about our survey. Over at a conference centre

When it comes to relations with trade unions, the majority of Labour

councillors thought things were absolutely fine. Just 9% thought

things with the unions were a little bit too close. Tricky because Ed

Miliband want to loosen the link. The shadow environment secretary

arrived in Brighton ride bicycle from London to raise money for

councillors what they would do if the next election results in a hung

parliament, just over half said the next election results in a hung

would tell the lid Dems to get on their bikes. We would never say

would tell the lid Dems to get on to going into coalition. It gives us

the chance to be in government and prepare some of the damage of the

last three years. So are you going to start being nice about the Lib

Dems? I always treat them with courtesy. And the parties admitted

that perhaps they had opened the door to too many immigrants. It

that perhaps they had opened the our survey Labour councillors of

warming the felt that immigration We're now joined by the Shadow Chief

Secretary to the Treasury, Rachel Reeves. Good morning. Let us start

with Ed Miliband. Is it true that the team insisted that he be called

the leader? I just call him Ed and I think the rest of the Shadow Cabinet

do. Do you welcome working for a leader that says he is winning back

socialism? We are a democratic important thing is that we have

socialism? We are a democratic policies that will improve people 's

lives and tackle the cost of living crisis facing so many families.

Policies like expanding childcare, offering more apprenticeships, all

policies that I think the country are calling out for after three

years of a flat-lining economy and seeing prices rise faster than wages

for 38 out of the 39 months but Minister. I think that is the most

important thing. So it is OK now to risk their to the Labour Party again

as the Socialist party? The clue is in the name, we stand up for working

people. You are socialist party according to the leader. We have

always been the Labour Party, that is our name and we stand up for

working people, not the privileged few like this government with their

tax cuts for millionaires. Those are privileged few. The Labour Party is

about helping everyone in Britain, all families. Interesting that your

run don't use the word socialist. In our survey one third of Labour

councillors said Ed Miliband was not doing a good job as leader. If he

councillors, who can he convince? Well you could say that two thirds

of councillors think that he is Well you could say that two thirds

right leader. But these are Labour councillors. The overall majority of

Labour councillors think that he is doing a good job. What matters is

the results on election day. Two thirds of councillors think that he

is doing a good job. That us see what they say at the end of this

week. Because I think the policies he is announcing will go down well

week. Because I think the policies with Labour Party people and will

also resonate with the British public. Policies like expanding

apprenticeships, giving a break public. Policies like expanding

struggling. I think people will public. Policies like expanding

what kind of a leader that he is. Well he has a mountain to climb

among all voters. Let me ask the question. Just 12% see him as a

Prime Minister in waiting, just question. Just 12% see him as a

see him as a natural leader. Why? If question. Just 12% see him as a

you look at the overall opinion polls, we are consistently ahead in

those polls. It is hard being leader Minister. By nature you are in

opposition. But he has taken on Rupert Murdoch and the press barons.

That is strong leadership, standing up to the vast majority. If you

That is strong leadership, standing at his reforms to our relationship

with the trade unions, strengthening ties with individual members. I

think that he is a strong leader making the right decisions. If that

is the case, why has the Labour making the right decisions. If that

gone from 14 points one year ago to at most four points now. What went

wrong? Well we are six or eight are six or eight points ahead in the

consistently ahead. It looks as are six or eight points ahead in the

we would get an overall majority if there was an election tomorrow.

we would get an overall majority if we have more work to do to convince

more people to vote for Labour. we have more work to do to convince

a one term Labour opposition. I this is a historic challenge, to be

a one term Labour opposition. I believe that Ed Miliband will be the

next Labour Prime Minister and will be an excellent Prime Minister. The

big policy announcement today is the guaranteed childcare for all primary

school children. How much will that government, they ring fenced money

after-school and breakfast clubs. We think that money should be ring

fenced again. How much will it cost? We are saying that schools

within their budgets should be able to provide that. At the moment they

can charge for children to come to provide that. At the moment they

their first clubs. But this is a additional money. As it was under

the last Labour government it will be about ring fencing money because

we think that this is a priority. This is something that the schools

should do. You cannot ring fenced money you do not have. You saying

schoolchild from eight o'clock in the morning until six o'clock at

night and it will not cost any more money? Well we did ring fence that

money in the last Labour government. That money is gone! It has not gone.

It is about priorities and we are saying that it should be a priority

where is the money being spent now that you would take it from? If

where is the money being spent now look at some of the things that

where is the money being spent now government is doing, building free

schools in areas where there are already enough. That is capital

spending. We are ring fencing that priorities. We had the ring fence

when we were in government. It would be reintroduced so that schools

when we were in government. It would to offer that wraparound care. Of

course schools can charge a small to offer that wraparound care. Of

fee for their breakfast clubs and after-school DVDs. But the important

thing is that provision is there for parents going out to work. Ed Balls

and Ed Miliband are at the heart of the Brown project. Damien Wright was

the hit man. Is it not inconceivable that they did not know what he was

the hit man. Is it not inconceivable up to. It is inconceivable that

the hit man. Is it not inconceivable did not -- Damian McBride. I am

asking about Damian McBride. What did not -- Damian McBride. I am

asking about Damian McBride. What I'm saying is that I was not there.

I was not there under the last Labour government. But I do know

that these things are not happening under the leadership of Ed Miliband.

that backstabbing going on. There is no plotting against Ed Balls going

on? I do not see that. And anyone who briefed against colleagues

should be sacked, I agree with that. Nick Clegg's conference speech made

it clear he was repaired to work with Ed Miliband in the event of a

hung parliament. Are you excited by that prospect or is it just boring?

to say that. With his poll ratings of 9%. I think it is up to the

general public to decide who they want to form a government. We are

campaigning for an overall Labour that just boring boring? I want

campaigning for an overall Labour serve in a Labour government is

campaigning for an overall Labour a coalition government. That is

campaigning for an overall Labour we are campaigning for. Thank you

for joining us. Steve Richards, we are campaigning for. Thank you

has Ed Miliband got to do this week? He has got to start to win the

argument about the economy. I think they will be quite clever on that in

terms of saying that the recovery has begun but it is not going to

benefit many of the voters. Unlike previous economic recoveries. That

is a strong line and they need to make that again and again. The

recovery has barely started. The make that again and again. The

interesting thing, Isabel, they make that again and again. The

to make a living standards the issue let's return to living standards

which have been squeezed. The polls show that twice as many people blame

Labour for the living standards show that twice as many people blame

the Conservatives. It is a great scene for them to mine, and it is

the only one before they announce big policies, but they have not

gained the trust of voters on the economy, so the Conservatives can

say they are finishing the job of fixing the recovery now and then

cannot quite trust us with the economy but we will talk about

living standards. Ed Miliband's economy but we will talk about

elucidating policies and not just incredibly vulnerable. The only

thing worse than not having a policy for an opposition leader is to have

a policy. It gives the opposition something to attack, the media

something to scrutinise and it makes you bold rubble and you can see

something to scrutinise and it makes coming through already before the

conference has started. You have childcare. Spigot can he provide

wraparound childcare for free? childcare. Spigot can he provide

can he provide wraparound childcare for free? I don't even know what it

is. Opposition is emphatically an art form, and the art form, and

artform for them at the moment is to artform for them at the moment is to

announce policies without spending any money and it is very difficult

to do. You gave an illustration any money and it is very difficult

how difficult it is. They are under huge pressure, for the last year, to

announce policies and they announce one on childcare and you immediately

say, how do you paper it? And she immediately says, we will not spend

a penny on it, because they are terrified of spending anything.

a penny on it, because they are is where it an artform. The tax

suspension before and election is crazy, because they will find money

one way or another, but in another way, they cannot say we will spend

money on this. It is a real problem. How do you measure the state of

money on this. It is a real problem. coalition after the Liberal Democrat

conference? The Liberal Democrats were in a very strong position after

their conference, Nick Clegg had faced and activists on some issues,

including fracking, which they supported, which seem to be the

including fracking, which they important part of the conference. In

terms of the coalition, the Tories have had to sit and watch as Vince

Cable, Nick Clegg and Coe have basically criticised them and said

they are evil and only the Lib Dems can make sure the Government is

they are evil and only the Lib Dems and works properly. So in terms

they are evil and only the Lib Dems how the coalition works, you can

expect to see some revenge at the Tory conference. The Lib Dems, Nick

Clegg's followers, they had their revenge. Mister Clegg may have

convinced his own activists to stay behind him, but he has a bigger

convincing the British people. There is some interesting polling they

have done privately that suggests there is a market of about 25% of

the electorate which is plausibly open to them, and all they have

the electorate which is plausibly do is target policies remorselessly

at that group, rather than the broader public, in order to do well

enough at the next election to hold the balance of power. That is why

policies that seem weird to us, the balance of power. That is why

free school meals regardless of income, may perversely make sense to

them. Because it appeals to their political world we are in, the

Labour strategists think they can political world we are in, the

Labour strategists think they can win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going

to concentrate on 25. The Tories win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going

to concentrate on 25. The Tories have seized to be a national party

any more. We haven't been used to it for a long time. In the 80s, one

party dominated, the Tories. In for a long time. In the 80s, one

90s into the 21st century, the policy matter delayed the Labour

Party dominated. -- the Labour party dominated. We are now here but we

have other parties hoping that dominated. We are now here but we

will give them a small overall majority and it is the best they can

get. It is a very odd situation where the main two parties feel

get. It is a very odd situation can lose and the Lib Dems are openly

targeting only 25%. They have gotten rid of 75% already and it is a long

way from the policies of last couple of decades Nick Clegg talked about

all of the policies he had locked. There is a real opportunity for

all of the policies he had locked. Conservatives to say that he is

blocking all of the things that voters outside of our bays are

interested in, top immigration policy, human rights reform, that

sort of thing. David Cameron can say that in Manchester next week. One

thing was quite clear, it came out of this awayday, and and this is

this, that when you look at Mister Miller band's polls, the Tories

this, that when you look at Mister going to make this a presidential

Which is why I am curious why they When the strength of your party

Which is why I am curious why they against his opponents, why not have

him or her juxtaposed against them in 90 minutes three times a week.

past week has given us inklings When the Lib Dems gathered for their

Government is planning on fighting When the Lib Dems gathered for their

annual shindig in Glasgow, some about their blue blood fellows.

annual shindig in Glasgow, some bedfellows. Vince Cable led the

annual shindig in Glasgow, some Tories had reverted to type as a

nasty party and describe their politics as ugly, cynical, callous

and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not restrict himself to policies that

and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not the Lib Dems had champion, such

and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not increasing the amount you can earn

before paying tax. The Deputy Prime Minister proudly listed all of the

things he had stopped the Tories from doing. Speak of scrapping

housing benefit the young people, no. No to ditching the human rights

act. No to weakening the protections in the equalities act. So how much

of a break have the yellow brigade being on Conservative ambitions

question mark in the two leaders shake hands again after the 20

question mark in the two leaders election, what policies were David

Cameron insist on. -- 2015? No matter how many times Nick Clegg

Grant Shapps, good morning. Nick self-styled. He boasted to his

conference that he had stopped the Tories from going ahead with 16

policies in government. Is this accurate? I don't know but what

policies in government. Is this can tell you, as your commentator

Isabel said, some of the policies that we wanted them if we were a

majority government sent out to that we wanted them if we were a

very popular things, like reforming the human rights act and some of the

problems that provides when it comes to sending people who have no right

to be in this country back. So there to be in this country back. So there

may be some things we could have inheritance tax cut? I don't know

the details, but I think it is negotiation and sometimes you can't

get everything you want, and we negotiation and sometimes you can't

done the best, given where the electoral maths left us. That is why

70 people in this country say they electoral maths left us. That is why

70 people in this country say they would rather see a single party

running the country -- why so many people. I have to say I agree. They

Give me a couple of major policies that you would introduce if you

Give me a couple of major policies had a majority in 2010 and were

Give me a couple of major policies held back by the Lib Dems. Speaking

the one I just mentioned would be Country, we have had 1,000 years of

than capable of putting in place developing the law and we are more

than capable of putting in place sensible laws. you would have left

the European Court of human rights. We have already started the process

of negotiation. There was some progress, but limited, and we would

like to move further. Let me give you one other. I think this country

has a great future but we can only ourselves the best place in the

world to come and set up a business. ourselves the best place in the

If we make ourselves the best place entrepreneurship and I think there

are a host of things we could do to go further on cutting back red tape.

And the Lib Dems have stopped you? I think that is the case. In what

ways, if any, have the Lib Dems improved the coalition process? It

has been a stable government. No one talks about when the next election

will come, we know it is in May talks about when the next election

but that is in part being in a coalition. The Tories wouldn't have

done that? It wasn't the plan of any party to go from... In the old days,

there would have been speculation. debate, you changed the British

constitution in a fundamental way and nobody got a say. It was debated

on the floor of the Has, as all constitutional changes are and there

was a lot of agreement -- of the House. Nobody has ever said to me

that it is a problem that we now have a fixed term parliament. Here

it is, every five years. This is what it has done, it has provided

stability in an incredibly uncertain economic time and that has been

stability in an incredibly uncertain for the economy. we will chalk that

up to delete -- Lib Dem. What about taking people out of tax, the Lib

Dems did that question mark it is a great policy. It is a conservative

led government, it is a Conservative This is a screen grab from your

party's website, income tax cut This is a screen grab from your

25 million people. You are taking the credit for it, it wouldn't have

happened without the Lib Dems. It certainly came about because of

happened without the Lib Dems. It coalition and we put it in the

coalition agreement. It could not have happened without a Conservative

Chancellor making it happen. It have happened without a Conservative

right, 25 million people taken out of tax. Another 17 by this April

will not be paying tax at all. you didn't want to do it. Look at what

David Cameron told Nick Clegg during What Nick Clegg is promising is

David Cameron told Nick Clegg during £17 billion tax cut. We are saying,

stop the waste of 6 billion to stop the national insurance rise. I would

love to take everyone out of their first £10,000 of income tax, it

love to take everyone out of their beautiful idea but we cannot afford

unaffordable and now you are taking the credit for it. I feel like it is

having a three year afterwards argument, and we got into coalition

because the British people put us there and we agreed to make the best

of it. And as it happens, if you want to hear a confession, I

absolutely think it is the right thing to take as many people out of

tax entirely as possible. Two points 7 million people pay no tax at all

because of this rise in the threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm

pleased it worked out. What are the most important thing is a majority

Tory government would do after 2015, unencumbered by the Lib Dems? I

think produce even more jobs when unemployment goes down, because we

think produce even more jobs when are the most entrepreneurial place

to set up a business. Are more free-market economy? We make our

money because we are out global trading economy. That is why it is

so important that we have to make sure it is easy to trade around the

world. One simple example, it is crazy in my view that we have global

tariffs that prevent some of the hardest other countries in the

world, in developing parts of the world, from exporting to us and vice

versa. I'm giving you a platform of things that I think we would be more

versa. I'm giving you a platform of interested in progressing in. It

sounds like you are talking about even more Thatcherite, market led

agendas. I think that you did a huge amount to show this country that if

you want to help the least well off people in society, and the least

well off people in the world, around the globe, the way to do it is to

trade, and I think we should have an economy which is much more open to

free trade. If there is another hung parliament, and the poll suggest

there might be, at the moment it is all to play for on both sides, what

would your non-negotiable Red Line speak? We are still two years away

from that, it is a long way away, but there is a lot we want to lay

out. What we are going to be saying to this country is most people want

a single party running the country, they think it is clean and clear and

you don't end up with negotiation after an election. We will be

setting out a very clear platform which will be for hard-working

people in this country who want to work hard and get on in life. We

would, I think, want to see the welfare state that we have got into,

where it is no longer about helping those most in need but became a

situation where you are better off not working than in worker, I think

we plan to ensure that this is an incredibly fair place to go out and

do a day's work and get the money at the end of the day rather than

thinking there is an alternative. you have promised a referendum on UK

membership of the EU in 2017, that must be your first Red Line? We are

clear, we want to see a referendum, a reform European Union. So no

poll... ? I should remind viewers that there is an act of Parliament,

a bill going through Parliament right now, for a referendum on the

EU, which comes back to the House. It is past the report stage and

comes back in November and we will be discussing it. The Lib Dems,

Labour, will have an opportunity to support what the British people

want. Lots may have changed. But it would be a Red Line for any future

coalition government question mark we are clear that it is time to have

a say. You will know from our manifesto. What is wrong with yes or

no? I cannot write the manifesto for 2015. You are asking me to project

beyond that and see in advance the election result and carry out the

negotiations that are yet to come. I'm just trying to work out how

much... I know you are committed but she won't tell me. Let's move on.

Your party has been described as nasty and blinkered. What do you

feel when he says that? We are interested in helping the most

vulnerable people in society. I think we're doing all that and more.

And it is a shame that that language was used because we have made so

much progress together. Are you getting to the end of your tether

with Mr King? I do not think it is terribly helpful for any Cabinet

minister to make comments like that. What I would say is that Nick Clegg

minister to make comments like that. is the leader of the Lib Dems and

entitled to have a view on it himself. Look at these figures on

party membership. Why has your party lost half of its members since Mr

Cameron became leader? I would like it to be more. But I think the world

has changed. People do not rush out and join political parties as they

used to. Instead they support you in different ways. If I released the

number of people who give to the party in different ways, through

donations for example, through friend memberships. If you include

that that figure goes back up. But your membership has fallen by 50% at

a time when UKIP has doubled. I do not want to to misinterpret what I

want to say. It is important to gain members. I think we will have done

that by the time of the next election. But one statistic of

interest, in the last election I had a 17,000 majority in my own

constituency. The difference was I had 1000 people helping me to

deliver leaflets and knock on the doors. The Conservative party has

changed. We now have an army of people, volunteers who are not

necessarily traditional members. The days when you expect people to give

you £25, before you accept their support, those days have passed. You

spoke about your most vulnerable marginal seats. This is a poll from

Michael Ashcroft. The 40 most marginal seats that you will be

defending. Labour is way up, you are way down and UKIP is also up. What

is happening, the Lib Dem Mo -- both are moving to Labour. And

disillusioned Conservatives are moving to UKIP. If these figures

came at an election he would lose 32 of these 40 seats. The point about

any opinion poll is that it is perhaps accurate at the moment it is

taken. We are now in a position where the economy has turned the

corner. The right thing to do was to deal with the deficit. The people

being asked about these things, they will be interested in their own

standard of living. Their mortgage payments. Why are you doing worse in

the marginal seats? National League you are kind of nip and tuck with

Labour. Well if that is the pick to come 2015, people will see that this

government has stuck to its guns. It did not go for more borrowing and

spending. And the record demonstrates that the last thing you

want to do is give the car keys back to the people who crashed it in the

first place. Lynton Crosby at this away day of Conservative MPs, his

one message was to go all out and attack Ed Miliband. It is going to

be a nasty election. That is actually not true. We are going to

focus on his policies, if he finally announces some. Everything we have

seen so far suggests it would mean more borrowing and spending. The

shadow chancellor said we would be ruthless, just a few months later,

27.9 pounds of extra spending committed by Labour. These are your

figures. I will speak to you about that during the Tory conference.

It's just after 11:30. You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming

up in just over 20 minutes. Alastair Campbell gives us his

not-too-positive review of Damian McBride's memoirs. Until then,

Good afternoon from the East Midlands. When a community is hit by

tragedy, what can politicians do? People normally do not know which

way to head so politics try to gel and cement the community.

And seconds out for the battle of the East Midlands marginals, but

does anybody have the knockout blow? Hoping to stop at Miliband in at

least one seat is the Conservative MP /Ed Miliband. He is defending a

tiny majority. And alongside him is the Labour MP whose majority is a

potentially vulnerable 2,000. First, the reaction to the news that

successful hospital managers from the NHS to be sent in to help

failing hospitals including the Sherwood hospital Forest trust and

United Lincolnshire hospital trust. Kingsmill hospital backs onto your

constituency, how long will this move take to turn things around? It

will take a while and we need to give them time to go through this

process. It is an enormous organisation and you cannot do a

handbrake turn in an oil tanker, you need to get the management

structures in place. We need to give my constituents the confidence to

keep using that facility and get it going in the right direction. Can

you give us a timescale? We will have to see how they get down and

the changes they can make —— get on. I would have thought about 18

months, we will see things changing and hopefully we can make a quick

improvement. We have to give them time to settle in and look at these

things. What do you think of this move, a

good move? Anything that tries to improve

management in hospitals, Kingsmill, and the trust, the Sherwood Forest

trust, are in transition. So if you bring good managers into assist and

support change is a good thing. But you have the pressures of resources,

staffing ratios. They are huge pressures and Kingsmill will be

suffering the consequences of that. It has been used in schools so it is

a precedent, can it work? I think it can work, it works where it is

supported. A hospital from Barnsley are coming in to support the trust.

If you have that trust coming in and supporting, it can work. So for the

benefit of patients, that is what you want. But alongside that of the

problems we know happening in the NHS with staffing cuts.

Mark, you have been in contact with the new management board. They keep

telling us they are getting through the key recommendations, are you

convinced? I am a bit cautious. They have a gardening needs to put into

action and it is down to people like me to hold that accounts to make

sure they deliver on that. The one thing that is crucify the system at

Kingsmill is the PFI which was signed which is crippling their

finances. If we can help them get out of that, that will be the best

thing. But it is an enormous challenge financially.

Thank you very much. From political rows to an issue which has tested

both the politicians and the people they serve. The killings in

Leicester last week have shaken the different communities in the city

that has been praise for the way people have dealt with the events

and now there is praise from the cities 's politicians. We spoke to

the city reader who said they have played it prominent part in helping

to heal the wins —— from the city 's politicians.

Politicians play an important role in issues like this, they like ——

people look for leadership and we are fortunate in Leicester to have

keep files whose constituency we are in now. —— three. I have all been

meeting with us since this tragedy. —— three. They have shown solidarity

and have gone the extra mile to ask if there is anything we can do to

facilitate an early burial, which is a requirement. We have had meetings

with various agencies and it has been marvellous. You can set an

example and show leadership because at times like this, people are

confused and do not know which way to head, so politicians play a role

in leadership to try to cement the community and relations. This can

very easily go wrong and there can be a wedge put between communities.

Can they help community speak to each other and to the mainstream

society? You mention the problem with burial, it is a different

practice in a Muslim community, how can a politician help with that? We

have signed an historic document allowing Muslims 24 hours, seven

days a week access to burial services. The structures were in

place where Leicester was the first city in Europe to allow this and it

is continued nationally now, that is another example of how politicians

helped us in the dawn of this work that we do, helped as facilitate

this. Today, we see the benefits because the structures are in place

were we can... Unfortunately, we usually see politicians at a time of

elections asking for votes. But in a situation like this, they know

community work is of significance and they have supported us, and it

is something we can export from Leicester to other parts of the

country. Rare praise from politicians looking

to read their community. I was reporting from an event in

Leicester, or one councillor spoke of the importance of staying calm

together, the city Mayor said it showed the city at its best.

Carefully chosen words, extremely important. It is important, you have

to tiptoe around these issues because you do not want to be

overbearing and interfering. Would you want to be supportive and try to

help that community through that tragedy and find a way to make sure

you stop that from happening in future. Or you can make it better.

It is very difficult. How do you pitch it? It is one of the hardest

things to do and undoubtedly, you get it wrong probably every time.

You are either not supportive enough or you are to interfering. I was

struck on Tuesday about how right they got it. Praise to them, it it

is very difficult. And you do not want to find yourself in that

circumstance but if you do, you go with your gut feeling. Vernon, your

shadow brief is Northern Ireland where it has had its troubles and

problems and politicians have been closely involved in getting the

community together. In your experience, what role can

politicians play in this? An enormous role because when something

terrible happens in a community, a mixture of emotions happen. Anger,

disbelief, sorrow, grief. And a sense of the world it. Sometimes,

people coming out and sharing that, it if you are a community leader,

makes a huge difference. If you look at Northern Ireland, where there has

been a sense of injustice about something, somebody saying the right

things and even Parliament, makes a difference. I give one good example,

and I say this about —— as a Labour politician. The Prime Minister as

his response to the Bloody Sunday enquiry, he got the tone just right

a year ago. That meant a lot to the people of Northern Ireland,

particularly the people in Derry, Londonderry were those killings had

taken place. That made a huge difference. What came out on Tuesday

was the issue of community solidarity and achieving that. It

means such a lot to people. People can be cynical and say it does not,

but it does matter, and the words do matter. You have to be careful to

get those right, but when they do get those right, it makes a huge

difference. The doctor who lost four members of his family said he got

his strength from their love, how do communities provide that kind of

support? It is very difficult, but you try to engage with those people

and you try to pull them together and point them in a direction and

read them through it. As a politician, you never want to find

yourself in that circumstance but if you do, you have to go with it.

People want you to be there. We leave it there for a moment. We

saw dignity there in the face of tragedy in Leicester, but elsewhere,

the knock—about stuff of politics continues and it does not get any

more knock—about and in the marginal constituencies which could play a

major role in determining the outcome of the next election. Ed

Miliband might be in Brighton for the Labour Party conference, but in

an interview this week, he told as our marginals were on his mind.

The East Midlands is very important to us. And we will be talking about

that as something very important, the cost of living crisis facing so

many people. The government is saying the economy is healing and is

fixed, but ordinary people think life is getting worse. At the

conference, we will show how life can get better, starting with ending

the bedroom tax. What is the key to winning back the marginals?

According to Lord Asquith, the key is UKIP, you have increased your

read because so many Tories are defecting to UKIP. The key is

talking about the issues that matter, and there is nothing more

than the cost of living. So many people think life is getting harder

every year, the squeeze on living standards, and there is no end of

sight, I fear, under this government. We will do something

about it and the key is, which party can make a difference on those

issues? That is what we will be doing at our conference.

Ed Miliband talking this week. His big policy idea is to scrap what he

calls the bedroom tax, what she would call the under occupancy

charge. —— you would. Will this be a big vote in a tight marginal like

show what? I do not, you need a credible financial plan. Says he

will scrap that, we need to know about the funding. We have heard it

all before. The only way to help families through the financial

crisis and the squeeze is with a credible financial plan to generate

wealth and jobs, and that is what the government are doing. We are

working to make sure the economy goes in the right direction, and the

rest is waffle unless you have a credible plan.

40,000 claimants in the East Midlands will benefit from scrapping

this, Labour claim, to around £600 each year. They will get more. That

would be a vote winner, will it not? I am up for that fight and we

have a great story to tell as a government. We have done the right

things to turn the economy around and in terms of immigration and

making life better for people who work hard and wants to get hard ——

get on. I am up for the fight and excited. It is a scandalous tax and

it has caused uproar, the bedroom tax. There hundred of people in

Sherwood and over 400 families losing between £14 and £25 each week

in one area. Some of the poorest families, with disabilities, denied

that support. Most people will be cheering from the rafters. But there

is a lot of support for cutting the benefits bill. For cutting where

people see it as unfair but people see the bedroom tax as a non—fat

burden on some of the poorest people. Why should somebody with a

house to pick for them be paid more than somebody else? Because these

are people with carers, caring for people with disabilities, that extra

bedroom where the carer will stay sometimes, they are losing benefits.

Not in every case. Two thirds of the people affected people with

disabilities or the poorest families, and that is what ending

this tax on some of the people in our country, I think many people

will say that is the right thing to do. A lot of people in Sherwood

squashed into houses that are too small, families who have got too

many kids in bedrooms who cannot move because of the houses are under

occupied. You have to use the asset you have got, and you have council

houses which are an asset for the community, we need to use those to

support that community and to spread that goodness around. The only way

to do that is to move people and accommodate them. I would rather pay

for that by closing tax loopholes on businesses and some of the richest

people in the country, but you are making the poorest people pay for

it. A lot of people in Sherwood are working hard to add a lot less than

the benefits cap and it is shocking you opposed that. We do not oppose

the benefits cap. I am quite prepared to go to public meetings,

Mark can support the bedroom tax, I will support scrapping it, and we

will see. I am sure the arguments will

continue until 2015. So what is happening in the marginals? We have

been to Derbyshire, where the sitting MP Nigel Mills has a

majority of just over 500, to speak to party workers from both sides and

to find out what you think. Ripley is in the heart of the Amber

Valley and the scene is set for a heavyweight battle between Labour

and Conservatives, but who is going to win? And servitors think it is

the way they run the Borough Council here that gives them the knockout

blow. If you look at the Borough Council

record, you will find we have done a very good job. We are providing

excellent services and very good value for money. And we have always

got our eyes and ease —— and ears open. Wherever things can be

improved, we do what we can. Are you going to go knocking on

doors yourself? We always do, all Conservative

members knock on doors, that is what it is about, getting close to people

and knowing their problems and making sure they know what we do for

them and what we intend to do in the future.

Labour are hoping hard work and knocking on doors will have them big

killer punch. —— the killer punch. How can you do

this? Three days a week, Wednesday,

Saturday and Sunday, we have to put in the work to get the results in a

tight marginal seats like the Amber Valley. There is only a majority of

500 and we feel getting the right message out and listening to people,

people are disenchanted and we have two engage with them again and with

the effort and commitment we are putting in, we can turn the seat

around. Do you get help from Central? We put in as much effort as

local members allow us to do. As a local party, we put in the effort we

can to help the party nationally, it is local routes up words and not

national party downwards. In the end, it is your votes that

count, but on the streets, there is a breaking through.

Governments are weak, nobody seems able to do the job. Essentially, we

need to be able to think about getting out of Europe, slowing

immigration down and controlling it, and nobody wants to do that. So I

suspect I will vote UKIP. He would you vote for this time? —— who

would. Publicly I think I might take a risk and ring Labour in ——

probably. My vote is midway between Conservative and UKIP. So between

now and the general election, the canvases and the politicians have

got to sway my vote one way or another. It is more than a year and

a half until the next general election and in the marginal

constituencies of the East Midlands, Labour and Conservative are slugging

it out. It looks as though they will have to fight hard for every vote.

Hardly overwhelming the is —— overwhelming support for you,

Vernon, a lot of people thinking of voting UKIP. But the polls from Lord

Ashcroft, eight prominent Tory politician, showed a big swing to

Labour in the marginal seat —— a prominent. He said some people were

thinking of voting UKIP. But there was a clear swing to labour in those

marginal seats across the country, including in the East Midlands.

But because of the defection from the Tories to UKIP, that is why you

are benefiting. But we are in front and we are doing well in those

seats. What we need to do is work hard and you saw the campaigning

effort going in from the candidates, everybody working hard.

And when people start to think about the cost of living, the fact that

prices are going up faster than wages, the impact on the

consequences of what the government are doing, it is all to play for. We

are working hard and campaigning hard in all the seats.

Somebody in that report said that term —— on between Conservative and

UKIP, is that your worst nightmare? I think only Mr Cameron Ed Miliband

will get the keys to number ten. —— or Ed Miliband. That is your

choice, we have to get that message across, and if you vote UKIP, E will

get Ed Miliband. We have got to sell our message. —— you will get. How we

have worked on immigration and welfare reform, we have a good

message to get across. But there are 18 months to go. A year ago, Labour

were 14 points in front and now we are neck and neck, who knows about

12 months? Is the problem for both of you not

that UKIP is moving public opinion towards their policies of

immigration and Europe? We will make a very positive pitch and will not

have a negative note of Mark. We think people have had their living

standards breezed by this government and we will present an alternative

and we will say, it does not have to be like this, we can create a fairer

and more equal society, and that will be the positive pitch we make.

It will be policies like the bedroom tax, that is why you should vote

Labour. Will he be more hard line on things

like immigration and Europe? —— will you be.

We have to get our message across, what we have achieved. Not looking

at other parties and campaigning negatively but selling our message

and telling people what the government has done and the progress

we have made. We will not go back but to keep going with that agenda.

That is a classic sign of when you are in trouble, saying, we are not

getting our message across. Well, you certainly cannot ignore it

UKIP at the next election. A quick round—up now of other political

stories in the East Midlands. Drivers will have to slow down

outside Nottinghamshire schools after the county council voted to

bring in a 20 mph speed limit. Most would—be advisory but some will be

compulsory. A new factory making parts for

Formula 1 and high—performance cars is to be built in Derby and will be

financed by the regional growth fund. A loan of almost £5 million

will help build a new factory. And Twitter rows are becoming a

theme, this time it is the Derby North MP Chris Williamson, accused

of comparing the Liberal Democrats to Nazi collaborators. The Labour MP

has said the accusations are utterly ludicrous.

It is not just our politicians power —— who are power hungry, the East

Midlands has the highest energy consumption figures in the country.

The top ten districts for energy use in our patch. Rutland has the higher

consumption figures in the country. The top ten in the East Midlands,

what is that down to? Maybe we are drinking more teeth than beer!

—— Morty. It is probably something to do with demographics but it shows

the importance of doing something to tackle energy problems, which

everybody is suffering from, about time the government did something

about that. Do something rather than just say something!

Thank you very much indeed. We are told energy bills and charges will

be one of the main themes of the Labour conference getting underway

in Brighton. That has been the East Midlands politics, thanks to our

guest. Now it is time to hand only if the ball comes to me. Bob

Blackman and Sadiq Khan, thanks very much. Leafing through the papers the

Blackman and Sadiq Khan, thanks very last few days has taken me back

Blackman and Sadiq Khan, thanks very my youth. The halcyon days of the

2000s, when the warring Blairite and Brownite tribes fought over who

Brown's chief spin doctor Damian should run the Labour Party. Gordon

Brown's chief spin doctor Damian McBride - McPoison, or worse, to his

enemies - has published his memoirs, timed for maximum impact in the

enemies - has published his memoirs, of Labour's Conference. They detail

how Mr McBride briefed against colleagues, brought down Cabinet

Ministers, that is - and fought tooth and nail to promote the man he

called "the greatest man he ever met" - Gordon Brown. Joining us

called "the greatest man he ever is Tony Blair's former Director

called "the greatest man he ever Communications, Alastair Campbell.

You are angry about what he has Communications, Alastair Campbell.

in this book. Why is that. It is partly the fact that he has done it

in a way that will be -- will be damaging to the Labour Party at

in a way that will be -- will be time. But also because of the lies

that he told at the time that he now communications and trying to hold

the thing together, build the team. There was also Charlie Whelan and

others. And that job was made more difficult than it should have been.

I used to challenge Gordon Brown about it. And there came a stage

where I said if Whelan does not about it. And there came a stage

I will go. And when Damian McBride was on the scene I was clear that I

was not going to have anything to do with him. Because of what he is

was not going to have anything to do admitting to, I think they played

quite a significant part in pushing Labour out of power. Because the

public were being fed by them, this public were being fed by them, this

narrative, the whole time. That Blair was useless, Charles Clarke

was useless. And I think that we where the government and had very

good ministers trying to do big things for the country. I said this

morning it was like being a foot tall team were on the pitch you

morning it was like being a foot your own players kicking the star

players. That is why I am angry about it because I think they helped

usher in a conservative government. If we had all stuck together I think

did not win the last election, that is a reasonable point. But surely

undermine Tony Blair and to promote their man, Gordon Brown. It is

inconceivable then that Gordon Brown did not know about it. Well in spite

reasonably good relationship with Gordon Brown. I used to challenge

him a lot about what Whelan was doing. He would always say, I will

sort it out. Another thing that annoys me is this sense put forward

by the right wing media that there was this sense of equivalence.

People like Steve who I have known for years, there is not a single

journalist with the very occasional exception where I lost my temper,

who would honestly be able to tell you that I ever breathed against

ministers. That was my golden rule. People say you were the forerunner.

I know it was not the case. One People say you were the forerunner.

the reasons why I do despise what they did, the whole spin thing which

associated with, once I wrote a actually within the government,

associated with, once I wrote a had a principle of maximum openness

and trust. Anyone could come to had a principle of maximum openness

morning meetings on condition that what was discussed their state as

part of the team. I had to say to Gordon Brown, your people are not

coming. Because I knew where it Gordon Brown, your people are not

coming from. Did you know that the time but Charles Clarke and others

were effectively being destroyed from within the Labour government? I

certainly knew that they thought that. I did know journalists telling

me that that was what was happening. Ultimately, this is why I never

me that that was what was happening. leaders, it is ultimately up to

me that that was what was happening. litre. Possibly in a different age

Gordon Brown would have been an amazing Prime Minister. He was a

great chancellor. But he had a flaw, this need for truly horrible

people to be around him doing truly horrible things in politics and

giving him and the Labour Party horrible things in politics and

politics a bad name. That is why I'm still angry about Damian McBride.

What do you make of it? The current administration is a contrast. We

have rival factions occupying the same offices but they still get

have rival factions occupying the The only time they have a row is

when something really big happens. But with that one party in Downing

Street there was fighting the whole time. Did Ed Balls know about this.

I would assume so. I spoke with time. Did Ed Balls know about this.

about it at the time. He told me at the time that he had spoken about it

with Gordon Brown. So I think there was a concern from within that camp

about some of these activities at equivalence, in life you expect

about some of these activities at see that there is full on both

sides. But I do not buy it in this see that there is full on both

case. If you look at the testimonies see that there is full on both

over the years, what you can surmise about the character of Gordon Brown

and of Tony Blair, it was ultimately driven by Gordon Brown and the

people around him. The Blairites did things but they did then by way

people around him. The Blairites did retaliation rather than initiation.

The one-time when I did lose it retaliation rather than initiation.

the whole psychological force thing. That came at the end of a period

when we were relentlessly being That came at the end of a period

in by Charlie Whelan and his gang of journalists. I would go along to

colleagues would be there and I journalists. I would go along to

had to sit there and not hit back. Saying I cannot believe Gordon Brown

would have anything to do with this. You get to the stage where your

would have anything to do with this. credibility is on the line. Coming

promotion of alcohol awareness. credibility is on the line. Coming

before that the Labour Party, you never had to deal with this in

opposition because you were pretty far ahead in the polls by midterm.

This time that is not the case. far ahead in the polls by midterm.

is surprisingly narrow. What advice would you give to Ed Miliband? To

keep his head out side of this bubble but it's all about him. And

to use this week to really speak to the British people about himself,

particularly the kind of policy agenda he is shaping for the future.

And start to heart -- start to hit the Tories hard. They're not pop,

they're not competent. They're screwing up the health service.

they're not competent. They're yet they are neck and neck. I would

say that the whole Shadow Cabinet understand that you win elections by

wanting to win elections every minute of every day. There is too

much complacency. A small lead now you have to grow that. You do that

with energy and conviction and policy. Tony Blair had a huge pole

bead in the run-up to 1997. We were winning seat where we had not even

campaigned and he was saying, why celebrate because we have not won

yet. You are promoting your alcohol celebrate because we have not won

yet. You are promoting your alcohol awareness campaign. Perhaps the

party conference is not the best place to do that! That is one reason

why I am doing that. I'm hosting probably the only alcohol free

reception of the week! There is nothing worse than a convert, I

reception of the week! There is that. But I travel a lot. I travel

around the world and Britain has a something we should be ashamed of.

Why is that, is it cultural? I think it is historical. But I dig David

Cameron was right to go for minimum unit pricing and wrong to do a

reversal. 6% of alcoholics get treatment. I expect that drugs are a

problem but we spent £2 billion treatment. I expect that drugs are a

100,000 problem drug takers and treatment. I expect that drugs are a

million on 1.6 million problem have written this book about a young

million on 1.6 million problem alcoholic, a teenager. And it is in

the first person. People could think you are writing about yourself.

did you choose a teenage girl? Well did you choose a teenage girl? Well

partly, I dedicated this to the Southampton. He told me when he

started his career that his patience was split nine to one, men to women

and it is now 50 - 50. They're getting younger and younger. One

doctor looking after me said I will take you around this hospital and

the problems of alcohol are in every single ward. Not just accident and

emergency. I watched the foot all, advertisements for gambling and

advertising. How have we allowed this to happen, ? We are just awash

with it. What we did I think on Availability and price either too

means by which you can bring this down. And the country that has had

the biggest success on this is Russia, bizarrely. Thank you very

much for that. That's all for today. Thanks to all our guests. I'll be

with live coverage of Labour Party Conference, including the speech

from the man who wants to be the next Chancellor, Ed Balls. Remember