Browse content similar to 09/03/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:36. | :00:43. | |
He's a man on a mission. But is it mission impossible? Iain Duncan | :00:44. | :00:45. | |
Smith has started the radical reform of our welfare state. No tall order. | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
And not everything's going to plan. We'll be talking to the man himself. | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
Nick Clegg's hosting his party's spring conference in York. He's | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
getting pretty cosy with the party faithful. Not so cosy, though, with | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
his Coalition partners. In fact, things are getting a wee bit nasty. | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
We'll be talking to his right-hand man, Danny Alexander. | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
And are all politicians self-obsessed? Don't all shout at | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
once. We'll be examining In the East Midlands, the Ddfence | :01:13. | :01:22. | |
Minister and an Afghan veteran on whether the war was worth it. | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
In London, we're focusing on the biggest social housing landlords. | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
Can Southwark Council really build 11,000 new homes in the next three | :01:29. | :01:30. | |
decades? And with me, as always, three of the | :01:31. | :01:37. | |
best and the brightest political panel in the business. At least | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
that's what it says in the Sunday Politics template. Back from the | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
Oscars empty handed, Helen Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Iain Martin. Yes, | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
three camera-shy hacks, who've never taken a selfie in their life. We'll | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
be coming to that later. They just like to tweet. And they'll be doing | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
so throughout the programme. Welcome. | :01:57. | :01:58. | |
Now, first this morning, the Liberal Democrat Spring Conference in York. | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
I know you speak of nothing else! The Yorkshire spring sunshine hasn't | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
made the Lib Dems think any more kindly of their Coalition partners. | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
Indeed, Tory bashing is now the Lib Dem default position. Here's Danny | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
Alexander speaking yesterday. Repairing the economy on its own | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
isn't enough. We have to do it fairly. | :02:22. | :02:30. | |
isn't enough. We have to do it the agenda a decision to cut taxes, | :02:31. | :02:30. | |
income taxes, for working people. Now, conference, note that word - | :02:31. | :02:38. | |
forced. We have had to fight for this at the last election and at | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
every budget and at every Autumn Statement since 2010 and what a | :02:44. | :02:44. | |
fight it has been. Danny Alexander joins us now. Are we | :02:45. | :02:56. | |
going to have to suffer 14 months of you and your colleagues desperately | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
trying to distance yourself from the Tories? It's not about distancing | :03:00. | :03:06. | |
ourselves. It's about saying, " this is what we as a party have achieved | :03:07. | :03:09. | |
in government together with the Conservatives". And saying, " this | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
is what our agenda is for the future" . It's not just about the | :03:17. | :03:22. | |
fact that this April we reach that ?10,000 income tax allowance that we | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
promised in our manifesto in 20 0 but also that we want to go further | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
in the next parliament and live that to ?12,500, getting that over a | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
2-term Liberal Democrat government. It's very important for all parties | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
to set out their own agenda, ideas and vision for the future, whilst | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
also celebrating what we're achieving jointly in this Coalition, | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
particularly around the fact that we are, having taken very difficult | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
decisions, seeing the economy improving and seeing jobs creation | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
in this country, which is something I'm personally very proud and, as | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
the Coalition, we have achieved and wouldn't have if it hadn't been for | :04:03. | :04:04. | |
the decisions of the Liberal Democrats. Lets try and move on | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
You've made that point about 50 times on this show alone. You now | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
seem more interested in Rowling with each other than running the country, | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
don't you? -- rowing with each other. I think we are making sure we | :04:19. | :04:27. | |
take the decisions, particularly about getting our economy on the | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
right track. Of course, there are lots of things where the | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
Conservatives have one view of the future and we have a different view | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
and it's quite proper that we should set those things out. There are big | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
differences between the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
just as there were big differences between the Liberal Democrats and | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
the Labour Party. I believe we're the only party that can marry that | :04:50. | :04:51. | |
commitment delivering a strong economy, which Labour can't do, and | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
that commitment to delivering a fairer society, which the Tories | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
can't be trusted to do by themselves. You are going out of | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
your way to pick fights with the Tories at the moment. It's a bit | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
like American wrestling. It is all show. Nobody is really getting hurt. | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
I've been compared to many things but an American wrestler is a | :05:12. | :05:18. | |
first! I don't see it like that It is right for us as a party to set | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
out what we've achieved and show people that what we promised on 2010 | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
on income tax cuts is what this government is delivering. But nobody | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
seems convinced by these manufactured rows with the Tories. | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
You've just come last in a council by-election with 56 votes. You were | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
even bitten by an Elvis impersonator! Yes, that is true -- | :05:40. | :05:51. | |
beaten. I could equally well quote council by-elections that we've won | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
recently, beating Conservatives the Labour Party and UKIP. Our record on | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
that is pretty good. You can always pick one that shows one or other | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
party in a poor light. Our party is having real traction with the | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
electric and the places where we have a real chance of winning. If | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
you're not an American wrestler maybe you should be an Elvis | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
impersonator! You told your spring forum... You don't want to hear me | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
sing! You want to raise the personal allowance to ?12,500 in the next | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
Parliament. Will you refuse to enter into Coalition with any party that | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
won't agree to that? What I said yesterday is that this will be | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
something which is a very high priority for the Liberal Democrats. | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
It's something that we will very much seek to achieve if we are | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
involved... We know that - will it be a red line? If you are a number | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
in 2010, on the front page of our manifesto, we highlighted four | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
policies... I know all that. Will it be a red line? It will be something | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
that is a very high priority for the Liberal Democrats to deliver. For | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
the fifth time, will it be a red line? It will be, as I said, a very | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
high priority for the Liberal Democrats in the next Parliament. | :07:13. | :07:15. | |
That's my language. We did that in the next election. The number-1 | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
promise on our manifesto with a ?10,000 threshold and we've | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
delivered that in this Parliament. People can see that when we say | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
something is a top priority, we deliver it. Is it your claim... Are | :07:27. | :07:33. | |
you claiming that the Tories would not have raised the starting point | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
of income tax if it hadn't been for the Liberal Democrats? If you | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
remember back in the leaders' debates in the 2010 election | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
campaign, Nick Clegg was rightly championing this idea and David | :07:47. | :07:48. | |
Cameron said it couldn't be afforded. Each step of the way in | :07:49. | :07:55. | |
the Coalition negotiations within government, we've had to fight for | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
that. The covert overtures have other priorities. -- the | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
Conservatives. I don't want to go back into history. I'd like to get | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
to the present. Have the Conservatives resisted every effort | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
to raise the starting point of income tax? As I said, we promised | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
this in 2010, they said it couldn't be done. We've made sure it was | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
delivered in the Coalition. Have they resisted it? We've argued for | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
big steps along the way and forced it on to the agenda. They've wanted | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
to deliver other things are so we've had to fight for our priority.. Did | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
the Conservatives resist every attempt? It has been resisted, | :08:40. | :08:46. | |
overall the things I'm talking about, by Conservatives, because | :08:47. | :08:49. | |
they have wanted to deliver other things and, of course, in a | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
Coalition you negotiate. Both parties have their priorities. Our | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
priority has been a very consistent one. Last year, they were arguing | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
about tax breaks for married couples. They were arguing in 2 10 | :09:02. | :09:10. | |
for tax cuts for millionaires. Our priority in all these discussions | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
has been a consistent one, which is to say we want cutbacks for working | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
people. -- we want to cut tax for working people. That has been | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
delivered by both parties in the Coalition government full top So | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
what do you think when the Tories take credit for it? I understand why | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
they want to try to do that. Most people understand what we have just | :09:34. | :09:40. | |
said. Not if the polls are to be believed... You're under 10%. This | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
is one of the things, when I talk to people, but I find they know that | :09:45. | :09:51. | |
the Lib Dems have delivered in government. People know we promised | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
it in 2010 and we're the ones who forced this idea onto the agenda in | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
our election manifesto. You've said that five times in this interview | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
alone. The reality is, this is now a squabbling, loveless marriage. We're | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
getting bored with all your tests, the voters. Why don't you just | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
divorced? -- all your arguments I don't accept that. On a lot of | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
policy areas, the Coalition government has worked very well | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
together. We're delivering an awful lot of things that matter to this | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
country. Most importantly, the mess that Labour made of the economy we | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
are sorting out. We are getting our finances on the right track, making | :10:35. | :10:37. | |
our economy more competitive, creating jobs up and down this | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
country, supporting businesses to invest in growth. That is what this | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
Coalition was set up to do, what it is delivering, and both myself and | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
George Osborne are proud to have worked together to deliver that | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
record. Danny Alexander, thanks for that. Enjoyed York. Helen, is | :10:53. | :10:59. | |
anybody listening? I do worry that another 40 months of this might | :11:00. | :11:01. | |
drive voter apathy up to record levels. There is a simple answer to | :11:02. | :11:10. | |
why they don't divorced - it's the agreement that Parliament will last | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
until 2015. MPs are bouncing around Westminster with very little to do. | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
They are looking for things to put in the Queen's Speech and we are | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
going to have rocks basically the 40 months and very little substantial | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
difference in policies. Do you believe Danny Alexander when he says | :11:27. | :11:29. | |
there would have been no rise in the starting rate of income tax if not | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
for the Lib Dems? He's gilding the lily. If you look back at papers are | :11:34. | :11:41. | |
written in 2001 suggesting precisely this policy, written by a Tory peer, | :11:42. | :11:47. | |
you see there are plenty of Tories which suggest there would have been | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
this kind of move. I can see why Danny Alexander needs to do this and | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
they need to show they've achieved something in government because they | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
are below 10% in the polls and finding it incredibly difficult to | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
get any traction at all. The other leg of this Lib Dem repositioning is | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
now to be explicitly the party of Europe and to be the vanguard of the | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
fight to be all things pro-Europe. Mr Clegg is going to debate Nigel | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
Farage in the run-up to the European elections. If, despite that, the Lib | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
Dems come last of the major parties, doesn't it show how out of touch | :12:28. | :12:52. | |
different. They are targeting a section of the electorate who are a | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
bit more amenable to their views than the rest. They wouldn't get 20% | :12:56. | :13:02. | |
of the vote. They are targeting that one section. They have to do | :13:03. | :13:04. | |
disproportionately well amongst those and it will payoff and they | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
will end up with something like 15%. How many seats will the Lib Dems | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
losing the next election? Ten. 0. 15. Triangulation! We'll keep that | :13:16. | :13:24. | |
on tape and see what actually happens! | :13:25. | :13:27. | |
The Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith is a man on a mission. | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
He's undertaken the biggest overhaul in our welfare state since it was | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
invented way back in the black-and-white days of the late | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
1940s. A committed Roman Catholic, he's said he has a moral vision to | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
reverse the previous welfare system, which he believes didn't create | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
enough incentive for people to work. But are his reforms working? Are | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
they fair? As he bitten off more than he can chew? In a moment, we'll | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
speak to the man himself but first, here's Adam. | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
Hackney in north London and we're on the road with the man who might just | :14:01. | :14:02. | |
be the most ambitious welfare secretary there's ever been. It s a | :14:03. | :14:08. | |
journey that started in the wind and rain on a Glasgow council estate 12 | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
years ago when he was Tory leader. He came face-to-face with what it | :14:13. | :14:15. | |
meant to be poor. A selection of teddy bears. It's where he | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
discovered his recipe for reform, according to one of the advisers who | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
was with him. There are things that if you do get a job, keep your | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
family together, stay off drugs and alcohol, make sure you have a proper | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
skill - that's what keeps you of poverty. He, very ambitiously, wants | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
to redefine the nature of what it means to be poor and how you get | :14:42. | :14:47. | |
away from poverty. Back in north London, he's come to congratulate | :14:48. | :14:50. | |
the troops on some good news. In this borough, the number of people | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
on job-seeker's allowance has gone down by 29% in the last year, up | :14:55. | :15:01. | |
from around 1700 to around 1200 But the picture in his wider changes to | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
the welfare state is a bit more mixed. A cap on the total amount of | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
benefits a family can get, of ?26,000 a year, is hugely popular | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
but there have been howls of protest over cuts to housing benefit, | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
labelled the bedroom tax by some. Protests, too, about assessments for | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
people on disability benefits, inherited from the previous | :15:25. | :15:27. | |
government. Iain Duncan Smith has been accused of being heartless and | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
the company doing them, Atos, has pulled out. And then the big one - | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
and universal credit, a plan to roll six benefits into one monthly | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
payment, in a way designed to ensure that work always pays. Some of the | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
IT has been written off and the timetable seems to be slipping. | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
Outside the bubble of the stage-managed ministerial trip, a | :15:50. | :15:52. | |
local Labour MP reckons he's bitten off more than he can chew. The great | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
desire is to say, " let's have one simple one size fits all approach" . | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
And there isn't one size of person or family out there. People need to | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
change and they can challenge on the turn of a penny almost. One minute | :16:09. | :16:11. | |
they are doing the right thing, working hard. Next minute, they need | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
a level of support and if this simple system doesn't deliver that | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
for them, they're in a difficult position. And that's the flying | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
visit to the front line finished. He does not like to hang about and just | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
as well do - his overhaul of the entire benefits system still has | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
quite a long way to go. And Iain Duncan Smith joins me now. Before I | :16:36. | :16:43. | |
come onto the interview on welfare reform, is Danny Alexander right | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
when he claims the Lib Dems had to fight to get the Tories to raise the | :16:48. | :16:55. | |
income tax threshold? That is not my recollection of what happened. These | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
debates took place in the Coalition. The Conservatives are in | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
favour of reducing the overall burden of taxation, so the question | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
was how best do we do it? The conversation took place, they were | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
keen on raising the threshold, there were also other ways of doing it but | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
it is clear from the Conservatives that we always wanted to improve the | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
quality of life of those at the bottom so raising the threshold fit | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
within the overall plan. If it was a row, it was the kind of row you have | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
over a cup of tea round the breakfast table. We have got a lot | :17:34. | :17:44. | |
to cover. There are two criticisms mainly of what you are doing - will | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
they work, and will they be fair? Leslie Roberts, one of our viewers, | :17:50. | :17:56. | |
wants to know why so much has already been written off due to | :17:57. | :17:59. | |
failures of the universal credit system even though it has been | :18:00. | :18:08. | |
barely introduced. Relatively it has been a ?2 billion investment | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
project, in the private sector programmes are written off regularly | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
at 30, 40%. The IT is working, we are improving as we go along, the | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
key thing is to keep your eye on the parts that don't work and make sure | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
they don't create a problem for the programme. 140 million has been | :18:30. | :18:39. | |
wasted! The 40 million that was written off was just do with | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
security IT, and I took that decision over a year and a half ago | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
so the programme continued to roll out. Those figures include the | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
standard right down, the aggregation of cost over a period of time. The | :18:55. | :19:04. | |
computers were written down years ago but they continue to work now. | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
Universal credit is rolling out we are doing the Pathfinders and | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
learning a lot but I will not ever do this again like the last | :19:14. | :19:21. | |
government, big band launches, you should do it phrase by phrase. Even | :19:22. | :19:28. | |
your colleague Francis Maude says the implementation of universal | :19:29. | :19:34. | |
credit has been pretty lamentable. He was referring back to the time | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
when I stopped that element of the process and I agreed with that. I | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
intervened to make the changes. The key point is that it is rolling out | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
and I invite anyone to look at where it is being rolled out to. You were | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
predicting that a million people would be an universal credit, this | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
is the new welfare credit which rolls up six existing welfare | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
benefits and you were predicting a million people would be on it by | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
April, well it is March and only 3200 are on it. I changed the way we | :20:12. | :20:21. | |
rolled it out and there was a reason for that. Under the advice of | :20:22. | :20:24. | |
someone we brought from outside he said that you are better rolling it | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
out slower and gaining momentum later on. On the timetables for | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
rolling out we are pretty clear that it will roll out within the | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
timescale is originally set. We will roll it out into the Northwest so | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
that we replicate the north and the Northwest, recognise how it works | :20:44. | :20:50. | |
properly. You will not hit 1 million by April. I have no intention of | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
claiming that, and it is quite deliberate because that is the wrong | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
thing to do. We want to roll it out carefully so we make sure everything | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
about it works. There are lots of variables in this process but if you | :21:07. | :21:09. | |
do it that way, you will not end up with the kind of debacle where in | :21:10. | :21:16. | |
the past something like ?28 billion worth of IT programmes were written | :21:17. | :21:23. | |
off. ?38 billion of net benefits, which is exactly what the N a O Z, | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
so it is worth getting it right William Grant wants to know, when | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
will the universal credit cover the whole country? By 2016, everybody | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
who is claiming one of those six benefits will be claiming universal | :21:42. | :21:48. | |
credit. Some and sickness benefits will take longer to come on because | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
it is more difficult. Many of them have no work expectations on them, | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
but for those on working tax credits, on things like job-seeker's | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
allowance, they will be making claims on universal credit. Many of | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
them are already doing that now there are 200,000 people around the | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
country already on universal credit. You cannot give me a date as to when | :22:15. | :22:26. | |
everybody will be on it? 2016 is when everybody claiming this benefit | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
will be on, then you have to bring others and take them slower. | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
Universal credit is a big and important reform, not an IT reform. | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
The important point is that it will be a massive cultural reform. Right | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
now somebody has to go to work and there is a small job out there. They | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
won't take that because the way their benefits are withdrawn, it | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
will mean it is not worth doing it. Under the way we have got it in the | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
Pathfinders, the change is dramatic. A job-seeker can take a | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
small part time job while they are looking for work and it means | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
flexibility for business so it is a big change. Lets see if that is true | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
because universal credit is meant to make work pay, that is your mantra. | :23:15. | :23:23. | |
Let me show you a quote Minister in the last | :23:24. | :23:39. | |
-- in the last Tory conference. It has only come down to 76%. Actually | :23:40. | :23:51. | |
form own parents, before they get to the tax bracket it is well below | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
that. That is a decision the Government takes about the | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
withdrawal rate so you can lower that rate or raise it. And do your | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
reforms, some of the poorest people, if they burn an extra | :24:06. | :24:12. | |
pound, will pay a marginal rate of 76%. -- if they earn an extra pound. | :24:13. | :24:21. | |
The 98% he is talking about is a specific area to do with lone | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
parents but there are specific compound areas in the process that | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
mean people are better off staying at home then going to work. They | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
will be able to identify how much they are better off without needing | :24:40. | :24:42. | |
to have a maths degree to figure it out. They are all taken away at | :24:43. | :24:50. | |
different rates at the moment, it is complex and chaotic. Under universal | :24:51. | :24:53. | |
credit that won't happen, and they will always be better off than they | :24:54. | :25:01. | |
are now. Would you work that bit harder if the Government was going | :25:02. | :25:10. | |
to take away that portion of what you learned? At the moment you are | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
going to tax poor people at the same rate the French government taxes | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
billionaires. Millions will be better off under this system of | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
universal credit, I promise you and that level of withdrawal then | :25:26. | :25:27. | |
becomes something governments have to publicly discussed as to whether | :25:28. | :25:35. | |
they lower or raise it. But George Osborne wouldn't give you the extra | :25:36. | :25:41. | |
money to allow for the taper, is that right? The moment somebody | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
crosses into work under the present system, there are huge cliff edges, | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
in other words the immediate withdrawal makes it worse for them | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
to go into work than otherwise. If he had given you more money, you | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
could have tapered it more gently? Of course, but the Chancellor can | :26:03. | :26:10. | |
always ultimately make that decision. These decisions are made | :26:11. | :26:16. | |
by chancellors like tax rates, but it would be much easier under this | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
system for the public to see what the Government chooses as its | :26:22. | :26:24. | |
priorities. At the moment nobody has any idea but in the future it will | :26:25. | :26:31. | |
be. Under the Pathfinders, we are finding people are going to work | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
faster, doing more job searches and more likely to take work under | :26:38. | :26:44. | |
universal credit. Public Accounts Committee said this programme has | :26:45. | :26:52. | |
been worse than doing nothing, for the long-term credit. It has not | :26:53. | :26:59. | |
been a glorious success, has it That is wrong. Right now the work | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
programme is succeeding, more people are going to work, somewhere in the | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
order of 500,000 people have gone back into work as a result of the | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
programme. Around 280,000 people are in a sustained work over six | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
months. Many companies are well above it, and the whole point about | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
the work programme is that it is setup so that we make the private | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
sector, two things that are important, there is competition in | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
every area so that people can be sucked out of the programme and | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
others can move in. The important point here as well is this, that | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
actually they don't get paid unless they sustain somebody for six months | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
of employment. Under previous programmes under the last | :27:50. | :27:52. | |
government, they wasted millions paying companies who took the money | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
and didn't do enough to get people into work. The best performing | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
provider only moved 5% of people off benefit into work, the worst managed | :28:04. | :28:11. | |
only 2%. It is young people. That report was on the early first months | :28:12. | :28:17. | |
of the work programme, it is a two-year point we are now and I can | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
give you the figures for this. They are above the line, the improvement | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
has been dramatic and the work programme is better than any other | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
back to work programme under the last government. So why is long term | :28:31. | :28:40. | |
unemployment rising? It is falling. We have the largest number of people | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
back in work, there is more women in work than ever before, more jobs | :28:47. | :28:52. | |
being created, 1.6 million new jobs being created. The work programme is | :28:53. | :28:59. | |
working, our back to work programmes are incredibly successful at below | :29:00. | :29:02. | |
cost so we are doing better than the last government ever did, and it | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
will continue to improve because this process is very important. The | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
competition is what drives up performance. We want the best | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
performers to take the biggest numbers of people. You are | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
practising Catholic, Archbishop Vincent Nichols has attached your | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
reforms -- attack to your reforms, saying they are becoming more | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
punitive to the most vulnerable in the land. What do you say? I don't | :29:32. | :29:37. | |
agree. It would have been good if you called me before making these | :29:38. | :29:40. | |
attacks because most are not correct. | :29:41. | :29:51. | |
For the poorest temper sent in their society, they are now spending, as a | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
percentage of their income, less than they did before. I'm not quite | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
sure what he thinks welfare is about. Welfare is about stabilising | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
people but most of all making sure that households can achieve what | :30:07. | :30:09. | |
they need through work. The number of workless households under | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
previous governments arose consistently. It has fallen for the | :30:14. | :30:20. | |
first time in 30 years by nearly 18%. Something like a quarter of a | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
million children were growing up in workless households and are now in | :30:25. | :30:27. | |
households with work and they are three times more likely to grow up | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
with work than they would have been in workless households. Let me come | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
into something that he may have had in mind as being punitive - some | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
other housing benefit changes. A year ago, the Prime Minister | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
announced that people with severely disabled children would be exempt | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
from the changes but that was only after your department fought a High | :30:48. | :30:54. | |
Court battle over children who couldn't share a bedroom because of | :30:55. | :30:58. | |
severe disabilities. Isn't that what the Archbishop means by punitive or, | :30:59. | :31:03. | |
some may describe it, heartless We were originally going to appeal that | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
and I said no. You put it up for an appeal and I said no. We're talking | :31:10. | :31:12. | |
about families with disabled children. There are good reasons for | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
this. Children with conditions like that don't make decisions about | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
their household - their parents do - so I said we would exempt them. But | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
for adults with disabilities the courts have upheld all of our | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
decisions against complaints. But you did appeal it. It's just that, | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
having lost in the appeal court you didn't then go to the Supreme Court. | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
You make decisions about this. My view was that it was right to exempt | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
them at that time. I made that decision, not the Prime Minister. | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
Let's get this right - the context of this is quite important. Housing | :31:49. | :31:51. | |
benefit under the last government doubled under the last ten years to | :31:52. | :31:59. | |
?20 billion. It was set to rise to another 25 billion, the fastest | :32:00. | :32:02. | |
rising of the benefits, it was out of control. We had to get it into | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
control. It wasn't easy but we haven't cut the overall rise in | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
housing. We've lowered it but we haven't cut housing benefit and | :32:12. | :32:13. | |
we've tried to do it carefully so that people get a fair crack. On the | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
spare room subsidy, which is what this complaint was about, the | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
reality is that there are a quarter of a million people living in | :32:23. | :32:24. | |
overcrowded accommodation. The last government left us with 1 million | :32:25. | :32:27. | |
people on a waiting list for housing and there were half a million people | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
sitting in houses with spare bedrooms they weren't using. As we | :32:32. | :32:35. | |
build more houses, yes we need more, but the reality is that councils and | :32:36. | :32:39. | |
others have to use their accommodation carefully so that they | :32:40. | :32:42. | |
actually improve the lot of those living in desperate situations in | :32:43. | :32:45. | |
overcrowded accommodation, and taxpayers are paying a lot of | :32:46. | :32:48. | |
money. This will help people get back to work. They're more likely to | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
go to work and more likely, therefore, to end up in the right | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
sort of housing. We've not got much time left. A centre-right think tank | :32:58. | :33:04. | |
that you've been associated with, on job-seeker's allowance, says 70 000 | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
job-seekers' benefits were withdrawn unfairly. A viewer wants to know, | :33:09. | :33:16. | |
are these reforms too harsh and punitive? Those figures are not | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
correct. The Policy Exchange is wrong? Those figures are not correct | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
and we will be publishing corrected figures. The reality is... Some | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
people have lost their job-seeker benefits and been forced to go to | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
food backs and they shouldn't have. No, they're not. What he is | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
referring to is that we allowed an adviser to make a decision if some | :33:42. | :33:44. | |
but it is not cooperating. We now make people sign a contract, where | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
they agree these things. These are things we do for you and if you | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
don't do these things, you are likely to have your benefit | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
withdrawn on job-seeker's allowance. Some of this was an fairly | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
withdrawn. There are millions of these things that go through. This | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
is a very small subset. But if you lose your job-seeker benefit | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
unfairly, you have no cash flow There is an immediate review within | :34:10. | :34:15. | |
seven days of that decision. Within seven days, that decision is | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
reviewed. They are able to get a hardship fund straightaway if there | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
is a problem. We have nearly ?1 billion setup to help people, | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
through crisis, hardship funds and in many other ways. We've given more | :34:28. | :34:34. | |
than ?200 million to authorities to do face-to-face checks. This is not | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
a nasty, vicious system but a system that says, "look, we ask you to do | :34:40. | :34:44. | |
certain things. Taxpayers pay this money. You are out of work but you | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
have obligations to seek work. We simply ask that you stick to doing | :34:48. | :34:50. | |
those. Those sanctions are therefore be but he will not cooperate" . I | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
think it is only fair to say to those people that they make choices | :34:56. | :34:58. | |
throughout their life and if they choose not to cooperate, this is | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
what happens. Is child poverty rising? No, it is actually falling | :35:04. | :35:10. | |
in the last figures. 300,000 it fell in the last... Let me show you these | :35:11. | :35:17. | |
figures. That is a projection by the Institute of fiscal studies. It also | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
shows that it has gone up every year and will rise by 400,000 in this | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
Parliament, and your government, and will continue to rise. But never | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
mind the projection. It may be right, may be wrong. It would be | :35:30. | :35:36. | |
400,000 up compared to when -- what you inherited when this Parliament | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
ends. That isn't a projection but the actual figures. But the last | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
figures show that child poverty has fallen by some 300,000. The | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
important point is... Can I just finished this point of? Child | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
poverty is measured against 60% of median income so this is an issue | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
about how we measure child poverty. You want to change the measure. I | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
made the decision not to publish our change figures at this point because | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
we've still got a bit more work to do on them but there is a big | :36:09. | :36:11. | |
consensus that the way we measure child poverty right now does not | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
measure exactly what requires to be done. For example, a family with an | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
individual parent who may be drug addicted and gets what we think is | :36:21. | :36:23. | |
enough money to be just over the line, their children may be living | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
in poverty but they won't be measured so we need to get a | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
measurement that looks at poverty in terms of how people live, not just | :36:31. | :36:33. | |
in terms of the income levels they have. You can see on that chart - | :36:34. | :36:40. | |
400,000 rising by the end of this Parliament - you are deciding over | :36:41. | :36:43. | |
an increase. Speedier I want to change it because under the last | :36:44. | :36:46. | |
government child poverty rose consistently from 2004 and they | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
ended up chucking huge sums of money into things like tax credits. In tax | :36:52. | :36:58. | |
credits, in six years before the last election, the last government | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
spent ?175 billion chasing a poverty target and they didn't achieve what | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
they set out to achieve. We don't want to continue down that line | :37:09. | :37:10. | |
where you simply put money into a welfare system to alter a marginal | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
income line. It doesn't make any sense. That's why we want to change | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
it, not because some projection says it might be going up. I will point | :37:20. | :37:30. | |
out again it isn't a projection up to 2013-14. You want it to make work | :37:31. | :37:37. | |
pay but more people in poverty are now in working families than in | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
workless families. For them, workers not paying. Those figures referred | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
to the last government's time in government. What is interesting | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
about it is that until 2010, under the last government, those in | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
working families - poverty in working families rose by half a | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
million. For the two years up to the end of those figures, it has been | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
flat, under this government. These are figures at the last | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
government... You inherited and it hasn't changed. The truth is, even | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
if you are in poverty in a working family, your children, if they are | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
in workless families, are three times more likely to be out of work | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
and to suffer real hardship. So, in other words, moving people up the | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
scale, into work and then on is important. The problem with the last | :38:30. | :38:35. | |
government system with working tax credit is it locks them into certain | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
hours and they didn't progress. We're changing that so that you | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
progress on up and go out of poverty through work and beyond it. But | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
those figures you're referring to refer to the last government's | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
tenure and they spent ?175 billion on a tax credit which still left | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
people in work in poverty. Even 20 minutes isn't enough to go through | :38:58. | :39:00. | |
all this. A lot more I'd like to talk about. I hope you will come | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
back. I will definitely come back. Thank you for joining us. | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
You're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
in Scotland, who leave us now for Sunday Politics Scotland. | :39:13. | :39:28. | |
As our troops pull out of Afghanistan, we will hear from a | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
Defence Minister and a veteran as to whether it will be `` it has all | :39:33. | :39:38. | |
been worth it? towns are opdn for business, girls are going to school | :39:39. | :39:42. | |
and millions of Afghan refugees have come home. No`one doubts thdy are | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
going to be huge challenges when British troops leave later this | :39:47. | :39:49. | |
year. Same`sex marriage becomes legal this week, but one advice | :39:50. | :39:52. | |
centre in the region says epual rights for gay people are still a | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
long way off. From the 2nd of January, when we opened our doors | :39:57. | :39:59. | |
after the Christmas break, we have dealt with 11 suicidal individuals | :40:00. | :40:02. | |
who have attempted to kill themselves. My guests this week the | :40:03. | :40:08. | |
Conservative MP for Roxburgh and Defence Minister Anna Soubrx and | :40:09. | :40:11. | |
Labour's MP Margaret Becket and a would`be politician, David Bishop, | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
who has been in the news thhs week. David Bishop, you stood with your | :40:16. | :40:18. | |
Bus Pass Elvis Party and yot took a momentous fourth place in a | :40:19. | :40:28. | |
Nottingham City Council by`dlection. You pushed the Lib Dems into fifth | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
place. Congratulations. How do you feel? Thank you very much. | :40:33. | :40:35. | |
Surprised, but I thought I light get somewhere this time. I didn't think | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
the Lib Dems would do very well In a recent by`election in Manchester, | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
they lost their deposit, so I thought there may be a chance this | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
time that I would beat them. I never saw the Liberal Democrat calpaign | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
team. I didn't see any literature. I don't know where they were | :40:55. | :40:56. | |
leafleting. I never saw anything. Your success has taken you to | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
trending on Twitter. Are yot aware of the success? No. You are. I don't | :41:01. | :41:08. | |
have a computer. Somebody h`s to look at these things for me. I | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
haven't got a computer, I h`ven t got a TV. I haven't got a mobile | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
phone. You haven't got a phone? Mobile phone. The Lib Dems have told | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
us that they knew that they couldn't win the seat, so they didn't | :41:23. | :41:25. | |
campaign there. Do you belidve that? That is what they have told us. They | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
didn't stand last time. I know they didn't stand last time. Why this | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
time? Why did they stand thhs time? They didn't stand last time. I guess | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
to give people a chance to vote To see the strength of support that | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
they have. We actually have history. I thought you and I had stood | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
against each other, but we haven't. How do you feel about it whdn people | :41:50. | :41:52. | |
like David, fringe candidatds, stand? Brilliant. We had a | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
by`election in Sherwood, in the city ward, which I have stood in. You had | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
different name them. You were the Elvis Appreciation Party. Church of | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
the Militant Elvis. That is it, Church of the Militant Elvis. They | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
all have Elvis as a theme, don't they? Different campaigns. That was | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
the more religious one. That was good fun. Obviously, Elvis hs more | :42:15. | :42:17. | |
popular than the Lib Dems, hn conclusion. How do you feel, | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
Margaret, about people like David standing? They've got every right to | :42:22. | :42:24. | |
stand. If they enjoy themselves fine. A bit of a nuisance, really? | :42:25. | :42:38. | |
No. It adds great fun. I might not be so amused if I lost to somebody! | :42:39. | :42:47. | |
I lost to a garlic in a student union election. `` | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
. I lost to one of the Daleks. You're not a Doctor Who fan? You got | :42:52. | :43:09. | |
67, the Lib Dems got 56. Yot weren't expecting to do as well as xou did. | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
You doubled what you did last time. I think the Lib Dems probably wish | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
they had not have stood. I would have been bottom if they had not | :43:20. | :43:22. | |
have stood. It was an interdsting by`election. To be truthful, I | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
didn't think we would do as well as we did. We did well. It is ` very | :43:28. | :43:34. | |
interesting... I know a bit about the area. It is an interesthng seat, | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
it used to be held by three Tories. Labour won it in 2011. David, where | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
do you go now? Where do I go now? Yes, general election wise. I was | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
going to say to the pub! No, I am not sure what I will do. I hope you | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
might stand in Anne's consthtuency! I heard you might. Is that true | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
Don't you dare! Not against me. Not with a majority of 389. Go to | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
Margaret's seat. David, thank you very much. The lighter side of | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
politics there. But you cannot get much more serious than our next | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
topic. British troops have begun their withdrawal from Afghanistan. | :44:10. | :44:12. | |
Among them, hundreds of troops from the East Midlands. Much of ht has | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
been documented by our correspondent. Now, as the bases are | :44:18. | :44:27. | |
wound down, he's been back to Afghanistan for a special rdport on | :44:28. | :44:30. | |
the impact East Midlands soldiers have had. This is Camp Basthon. The | :44:31. | :44:33. | |
sprawling British base in the middle of the desert that was designed by | :44:34. | :44:36. | |
engineers from the Chilwell. Thousands of men and women have been | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
deployed here over the last few years. Some are packing up to head | :44:41. | :44:42. | |
home. It is already well under wax. They | :44:43. | :44:45. | |
are dismantling bases, loadhng containers and cleaning thotsands of | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
vehicles that will be sent back to the UK. When I first came hdre five | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
years ago, it was very diffdrent. It was all`out war. The soldiers from | :44:56. | :44:58. | |
Derbyshire saw some of the toughest fighting since World War II. They | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
have shown extraordinary cotrage and more than 20 men have lost their | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
lives from the East Midlands. I asked the commander here in Helmand | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
Province what they have achheved. The role that has been playdd by | :45:13. | :45:15. | |
regiments such as the Royal Anglian Regiment, their contribution has | :45:16. | :45:23. | |
been really valuable. You c`n see the changes, you can see thd | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
progress that has been made. We were originally in Afghanistan bdcause of | :45:28. | :45:30. | |
the threat that was posed from this part of the world which led to /11 | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
and the summer attacks in London. Since then, there has been `n | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
operation to assist the Afghans in the rebuilding of their nathon in | :45:39. | :45:41. | |
order so they can have their own security forces that can prdvent | :45:42. | :45:44. | |
that threat from emanating from this part of the world again. But there | :45:45. | :45:47. | |
still remains an underlying political issue here in Afghanistan | :45:48. | :45:50. | |
which is the source of the insurgency. Some people will say | :45:51. | :46:01. | |
that the Taliban still has hnfluence in this part of Afghanistan. We are | :46:02. | :46:05. | |
withdrawing. We haven't won this war. A secure environment in which | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
they can recruit their army and their police. Would concede that the | :46:10. | :46:21. | |
activity of the troops and British soldiers as part of that, h`ve | :46:22. | :46:25. | |
successfully bought the Afghans time. That has allowed a secure | :46:26. | :46:31. | |
environment. We have been ddlivering training. Can you see the T`liban | :46:32. | :46:37. | |
back in power in some form hn Helmand Province? I can see no | :46:38. | :46:40. | |
chance here in Helmand. The people of Helmand overwhelmingly rdject the | :46:41. | :46:47. | |
Taliban. They can see that the government of Afghanistan h`ve been | :46:48. | :46:49. | |
able to deliver effective sdcurity and they have also been abld to | :46:50. | :46:53. | |
deliver the functions of government that we would expect in the UK. The | :46:54. | :47:02. | |
Taliban offer none of that. Since the Royal Anglians first arrived | :47:03. | :47:05. | |
here 12 years ago, things h`ve changed dramatically. Towns are open | :47:06. | :47:08. | |
for business, girls are going to school, and millions of Afghan | :47:09. | :47:14. | |
refugees have come home. But no`one doubts there are going to bd huge | :47:15. | :47:17. | |
challenges when British troops leave later this year. So will security | :47:18. | :47:26. | |
here deteriorate? Could the Taliban be back in power and will the | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
sacrifices of so many troops from the East Midlands make a lasting | :47:31. | :47:33. | |
difference here? You can sed more of Jeremy's report on Afghanistan on | :47:34. | :47:36. | |
the BBC 's website. Joining us now is an ex`servicemen from | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
Nottinghamshire who lost a leg when a landmine exploded in Afgh`nistan. | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
It is great to see you. Jerdmy posed a big question at the end there | :47:44. | :47:46. | |
Were the sacrifices, includhng your own, worth it? It depends what | :47:47. | :47:52. | |
question you are asking. We needed to be out there and the Govdrnment | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
decided that soldiers are to go out there and that is our job. Ht is a | :47:57. | :48:03. | |
difficult one, it is a diffhcult question to answer, it depends who | :48:04. | :48:11. | |
you believe. Some people wotld say that we are coming out, but we have | :48:12. | :48:17. | |
not defeated the Taliban. I've got to agree. I would like us | :48:18. | :48:25. | |
to be there until the job is done, but I cannot see the job evdr been | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
done, to be honest, and I think it is time that somebody is br`ve | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
enough to put up their hand and say, "It is time to leave." As Jdremy | :48:34. | :48:36. | |
said, 20 deaths from th East Midlands. | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
Was it worth it? I think so, yes. It is difficult. When you're whth | :48:41. | :48:47. | |
someone who has lost a loved one or a son or a friend or neighbour or | :48:48. | :48:50. | |
whatever, especially when somebody has been injured extremely badly, it | :48:51. | :48:57. | |
is always difficult. But on balance I think yes we did the right thing. | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
We went in in 2001. We know why we went in, to see off the Talhban and | :49:03. | :49:06. | |
to reduce, hopefully destrox, the threat that we have seen with the | :49:07. | :49:15. | |
9/11 incident. That was the whole reason for starting. That is why we | :49:16. | :49:21. | |
went in. The very real thre`t of terrorist cells. When you t`lk to | :49:22. | :49:27. | |
some people who are coming back I know it is fair to say that people | :49:28. | :49:32. | |
are going to put a big face on it. One of the things that we h`ve | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
achieved is that there is a much better governance, a better civil | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
society. So when you ask thd question ` will the Taliban be | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
coming back in? One thing wd have done is enabled the Afghan people to | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
say, we can do this. Was it right as you were in the Government that took | :49:49. | :49:52. | |
us to Afghanistan? One of the things that people have tended to forget is | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
that this was a United Nations operation. It was not just the US | :49:57. | :49:59. | |
and the UK, it is about 30 countries, if I recall corrdctly. | :50:00. | :50:02. | |
Because everybody was so appalled at 9/11, not just by what happdned but | :50:03. | :50:06. | |
by the realisation that this was a completely new kind of thre`t which | :50:07. | :50:17. | |
people had not anticipated. We have a lot of experience in this country, | :50:18. | :50:20. | |
we have had terrorism from Northern Ireland, but on the whole pdople | :50:21. | :50:24. | |
were not willing... They were willing to take the risk of dying, | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
but they were setting out to be killed. It was all a completely new | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
phenomenon. With the cuts that we are facing now to the Armed Forces, | :50:33. | :50:36. | |
could we mount that kind of operation now? Could we do what we | :50:37. | :50:39. | |
have done? My personal opinhon is no. We struggled originally to do | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
what we did, we went with no kit. We had the wrong kit in Iraq. Hn Iraq, | :50:45. | :50:52. | |
2006, we had the wrong kits. We would go out on patrol with three | :50:53. | :50:56. | |
magazines. We had 10,000 rotnds when I went out in Afghanistan. @re the | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
cuts going too far? It is h`rd to say. I haven't got all the figures. | :51:01. | :51:08. | |
I would like all the wastagd in the MoD to be sorted out and thdn you a | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
problem we find you would not need as many cuts. We have cut pdrsonnel, | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
we have increased the kits now. I think everybody agrees that the kits | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
that the guys get, the vehicle, new fleet of vehicles, it is ex`ctly | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
what they want and when I go out, one of the things... You get | :51:26. | :51:28. | |
soldiers in particular who `lways ask you, would you like to see our | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
weaponry? I want to know, do you have what you need? And thex say, | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
"Yes, we have what we need." We re talking reducing personnel `nd one | :51:37. | :51:38. | |
MP, the Shadow Defence Minister said that the redundancy programme | :51:39. | :51:50. | |
should be put on pause. He said the cuts will leave us with | :51:51. | :51:53. | |
8000 fewer soldiers than we need. Can we be doing this at this time, | :51:54. | :51:58. | |
faced with the problems we have We have gone through the review. In | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
America, they have announced huge cuts. I don't know whether Vernon is | :52:03. | :52:08. | |
saying that the next Labour Government will increase spdnding, | :52:09. | :52:14. | |
the anyway you can do it. I think a lot of people, including in | :52:15. | :52:17. | |
Hannah's own party, really puite worried about the way in whhch there | :52:18. | :52:21. | |
is emphasis on reserves and so on. The events of the last few days have | :52:22. | :52:26. | |
shown us just how much something can blow up almost out of the blue and | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
the problems it can cause. H think there is anxiety. There is the | :52:32. | :52:35. | |
worry. As all the soldiers from Afghanistan, a will need help. You | :52:36. | :52:41. | |
told me before you came in, you have been recently diagnosed with PTSD. | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
You have had friends who have come back from fighting. They ard | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
struggling, aren't they? Thd help is not there. That is the truth of the | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
matter. The Government is not helping us that they must step in | :52:54. | :52:56. | |
and do. Charities are there. There are a lot of charities therd that | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
are struggling themselves. There is a lot of money being put into | :53:01. | :53:03. | |
charities, but over the next few years when it isn't there any more. | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
We have put in tens upon tens upon millions of pounds into charities. | :53:09. | :53:13. | |
Forgive me, it is right that Help for Heroes will raise 40 million a | :53:14. | :53:23. | |
year. Did you get the help xou need it yourself? Sorry. It is ilportant. | :53:24. | :53:36. | |
What happens then? That is why we put this funding, guaranteed ?1 | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
million year on year. I think it is really important to say that the | :53:41. | :53:43. | |
majority of our serving personnel and veterans, actually, havd better | :53:44. | :53:46. | |
mental health. Very, very briefly. I have to disagree. Completelx. The | :53:47. | :53:56. | |
help is not there. The problem soldiers have got, PTSD norlally | :53:57. | :53:59. | |
happens five or ten years after they left the army and they cannot prove | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
it happened during service. You wish you had more help. I wish there was | :54:04. | :54:09. | |
more helpful soldiers. Thank you for joining us. On Thursday, sale`sex | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
marriages will pass into law. It has been billed as an historic loment. | :54:14. | :54:16. | |
Campaigners say many gay people are still facing discrimination and even | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
violence and intimidation. With same`sex marriages becoming | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
legal, it is easy to think that the battle for gay rights is ovdr. But | :54:27. | :54:30. | |
this centre in Leicester tells a different story. The centre offers | :54:31. | :54:37. | |
help and advice to people from the Lesbian, gay, bisexual and | :54:38. | :54:39. | |
transgender committees. `` communities. It has never bden | :54:40. | :54:45. | |
busier. From the 2nd of Jantary when we opened our doors after the | :54:46. | :54:48. | |
Christmas break, we have de`lt with 11 individuals who have attdmpted to | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
kill themselves. They range from somebody in the late 30s to the | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
opposite end of the spectrul, 1 or 14`year`olds. We had an inqtiry from | :54:57. | :55:05. | |
an 11`year`old who wrote a detailed letter to his grandmother bdcause he | :55:06. | :55:08. | |
couldn't cope with the Billhngham school. `` the bullying in school. | :55:09. | :55:14. | |
You are the project worker here What sort of problems do yot see? We | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
get a wide range of issues. I never know who is going to be at the end | :55:19. | :55:25. | |
of the phone. One of the social issues that we are encountering | :55:26. | :55:28. | |
much more lately, is that of the lesbian gay bisexual or transgender | :55:29. | :55:36. | |
asylum seeker. At the moment, they are put in the impossible shtuation | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
of having to prove that thex are lesbian or gay. What does that look | :55:41. | :55:47. | |
like? I have dealt with people who say that they have been told that | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
they are too pretty to be a lesbian or too butch to be a gay man. For | :55:52. | :55:56. | |
the people who use the centre, it is a vital lifeline. Amy, you find this | :55:57. | :55:59. | |
place quite useful. Yes. Whx is that? It is mainly to do with the | :56:00. | :56:06. | |
people that you meet and yot can relate to other people and lost of | :56:07. | :56:10. | |
them have been through what you have been through, like bullying and | :56:11. | :56:13. | |
stuff like that. The support here is really good. I feel like I can say | :56:14. | :56:17. | |
anything too poor or ten and they will help we have in any wax | :56:18. | :56:21. | |
possible. `` Paul or Tim. It is good. We have come so far. When I | :56:22. | :56:28. | |
was growing up at 14 or 15, our to a psychiatrist, to where we are now, | :56:29. | :56:31. | |
if there is not a comparison. `` I was sent to a psychiatrist. But I | :56:32. | :56:34. | |
think the generation after ts and after that will benefit frol the | :56:35. | :56:41. | |
work we are doing now. Therd is terrible work that is being put | :56:42. | :56:44. | |
about at the moment is that we are tolerant. We tolerate the b`d | :56:45. | :56:47. | |
weather, we shouldn't be tolerating human beings. That is not p`rt of | :56:48. | :56:50. | |
our agenda. Same`sex marriage becomes illegal next week. Some | :56:51. | :56:59. | |
people here think there is ` long way to go before they reach full | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
equality and the bleak mess`ge is that some think it would happen in | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
their lifetime. That is one bleak message. | :57:08. | :57:09. | |
The centre says it has has 01 cases of people attempting suicidd. It is | :57:10. | :57:13. | |
shocking. I don't think it hs that gay people don't have equal rights, | :57:14. | :57:16. | |
but they still suffer from prejudice. That is wrong. I have | :57:17. | :57:19. | |
been a long`time campaigner for gay rights, since I was a student. I am | :57:20. | :57:23. | |
very proud of that. We know we have prejudice. I held a public leeting | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
in my constituency at the thme of the same`sex marriage bill. I was | :57:29. | :57:32. | |
somebody who was in favour of the same`sex marriage Bill, I stpported | :57:33. | :57:35. | |
it. It was one of the most puite unpleasant events that I have ever | :57:36. | :57:38. | |
been to. The level of blind prejudice was extremely unpleasant. | :57:39. | :57:51. | |
What was interesting is that older gay people there, it was like, | :57:52. | :57:54. | |
"Yeah, we have experienced this all our lives." How do we Had wd | :57:55. | :58:00. | |
overcome that prejudice? I think you just have to keep working away at it | :58:01. | :58:04. | |
and recognise that there will always be people that you will not win | :58:05. | :58:08. | |
over. As Anna says, it is one of the issues we get some of the most | :58:09. | :58:14. | |
unpleasant correspondence. Do you think legalising same`sex m`rriage | :58:15. | :58:16. | |
is enough, though? I agree with Anna. I thought, watching the film, | :58:17. | :58:26. | |
it isn't about rights, it is about attitude. It is about understanding. | :58:27. | :58:30. | |
Tolerance. They want more than just that. It is about recognising the | :58:31. | :58:33. | |
humanity in somebody has different sexuality and attitudes to xou. It | :58:34. | :58:40. | |
is not for me, somebody who is straight, to tell gay peopld what | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
they want. What we want is we want the end of prejudice. It has changed | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
hugely in my lifetime. They do say they want to be treated as dqual. In | :58:49. | :58:52. | |
law, they are. Forgive me, H think it is prejudice and attitudds. The | :58:53. | :58:58. | |
attitude of young people to same`sex marriage, overwhelmingly thd | :58:59. | :59:01. | |
attitude I have found sorry, what is the problem? It was the olddr | :59:02. | :59:08. | |
generation, not all, of course, who had more faith problem with it. `` | :59:09. | :59:14. | |
more of a problem. So for a lot of young gay people, they are shocked | :59:15. | :59:17. | |
now to see this level of prdjudice. To be fair, where there is prejudice | :59:18. | :59:21. | |
among the young, it becomes part of this horrible bullying atmosphere | :59:22. | :59:25. | |
that can go around. Actuallx, it is just one of the tools. Maybd it is | :59:26. | :59:36. | |
almost an indication of how younger people don't think of it as being | :59:37. | :59:39. | |
absolutely terribly important in the way that some older people do, but | :59:40. | :59:43. | |
it is just one tool that is to beat somebody if you don't like them and | :59:44. | :59:47. | |
wants to believe in. `` you want to believe them. You explain to us how | :59:48. | :59:50. | |
you voted for same`sex marrhage and half of the MPs in the East Midlands | :59:51. | :59:54. | |
voted against. `` half of the Conservative MPs. Yes, but that is | :59:55. | :59:57. | |
not because they are anti`g`y. Forgive me, same`sex marriage.. It | :59:58. | :00:00. | |
was about marriage. It was `bout marriage. It is also about same`sex | :00:01. | :00:03. | |
marriage. Yes, that was the vote. But that is not just for gax people. | :00:04. | :00:16. | |
A lot of people don't understand this, but I have the most alazing | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
couple in my constituency who married as a man and a woman, who | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
now find themselves the man is a woman, and they live togethdr and | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
they bring up three children they are utterly brilliant. But for her | :00:28. | :00:30. | |
now to have her certificate, she would have to divorce her whfe, | :00:31. | :00:34. | |
because it would... It is a very small example, but it is for them | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
and a lot of people transgender it is a fantastic step forward. Can we | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
do more to help centres likd this? I don't know about the centres. Gay | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
people don't have to just h`ve centres. It is about prejudhce. Some | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
do. That needs to be funded, doesn't it? I think we are in danger of | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
being simplistic. Forgive md, I wasn't trying to be. Here's our | :00:54. | :01:01. | |
political editor with 60 seconds. Thousands of people suffering from a | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
fatal cancer caused by exposure to asbestos whilst at work will be | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
eligible for new compensation from July. The Government is increasing | :01:08. | :01:18. | |
payments to ?123,000 for sufferers. Even if they cannot trace their | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
former employer or insurer. Mansfield's MP Sir Alan Neill and | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
welcomes the move, but... The only thing they have announced is a | :01:28. | :01:30. | |
maximum ?8,000 increase which is not a lot of money. The number of people | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
taking apprenticeships has brought a ?150 million windfall for btsinesses | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
in the region. That is according to South Derbyshire's Heather Wheeler. | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
The Conservative MP says each apprentice brings nearly ?2000 worth | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
of benefits into a company. Andrew Brigden is leading a call for | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
people who watch TV without a licence to be spared a crimhnal | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
record. At the moment, people can be taken to court and fined up to | :01:58. | :01:59. | |
?1000. That is the Sunday Politics. Thank | :02:00. | :02:11. | |
you to our guests. Time to hand you back to Andrew Neill. Thanks very | :02:12. | :02:13. | |
much indeed. Gove is right to focus. We've run | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
out of time. Thanks for being here. Andrew, back to you. | :02:20. | :02:28. | |
Now, without further ado, more from our political panel. Iain Martin, | :02:29. | :02:37. | |
what did you make of Iain Duncan Smith's response to the Danny | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
Alexander point I'd put to him? I thought it was a cheekily put | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
response but actually, on Twitter, people have been tweeting while on | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
air that there are lots of examples where the Tories have demanded the | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
raising of the threshold. The 2 06 Forsyth tax omission is another | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
example. Helen, on the bigger issue of welfare reforms, is welfare | :03:01. | :03:07. | |
reform, as we head into the election, despite all the | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
criticisms, still a plus for the government? I don't think so. | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
Whatever the opposite of a Midas touch is, Iain Duncan Smith has got | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
it. David Cameron never talks about universal credit any more. The | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
record on personal independence payment, for example... We didn t | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
get onto that. Only one in six of those notes have been paid. A toss | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
pulling out of their condiment has been a nightmare. It's a very big | :03:35. | :03:42. | |
minus point for the Secretary of State. -- Atos pulling out of bed | :03:43. | :03:53. | |
contract. Welfare cuts are an unambiguous point for the government | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
but other points more ambiguous I don't think it's technical | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
complexity that makes IDS's reform a problem. The IT gets moved out with | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
time. But even if it's in fermented perfectly, what it will achieve has | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
been slightly oversold, I think and simplified incredibly. All it does | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
is improve incentives to work for one section of the income scale and | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
diminishes it at another. Basically, you are encouraged to go from | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
working zero hours to 16 hours but your incentive to work beyond 1 | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
goes down. That's not because it's a horrendous policy but because in | :04:33. | :04:34. | |
work benefits systems are imperceptible. Most countries do | :04:35. | :04:42. | |
worse than we do. -- benefits systems cannot be perfected. They | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
need to tone down how much this can achieve even if it all goes | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
flawlessly. There are clearly problems, particularly within | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
limitation, but Labour is still wary of welfare reform. -- with | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
implementation. Polls suggest it is rather popular. People may not know | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
what's involved were like the sound of it. I think Janan is right to | :05:06. | :05:12. | |
mark out the differences between welfare cuts and welfare reforms. | :05:13. | :05:19. | |
They are related but distinct. Are we saying cuts are more popular than | :05:20. | :05:26. | |
reform? They clearly are. The numbers, when you present people | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
numbers on benefit reductions, are off the scale. Reform, for the | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
reasons you explored in your interview, is incredibly | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
compensated. What's interesting is that Labour haven't really | :05:45. | :05:46. | |
definitively said what their position is on this. I think they | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
like - despite what they may see in public occasionally - some of what | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
universal credit might produce but they don't want to be associated | :05:58. | :06:05. | |
with it. We probably won't know until if Ed Miliband is Prime | :06:06. | :06:07. | |
Minister precisely what direction Labour will go. Immigration is still | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
a hot topic in Westminster and throughout the country. This new | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
Home Office minister, James Brokenshire, made an intervention. | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
Let's see what he had to say. For too long, the benefits of | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
immigration went to employers who wanted an easy supply of cheap | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
labour or to the wealthy metropolitan elite who wanted cheap | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
tradesmen and services, but not to the ordinary hard-working people of | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
this country. With the result that the Prime Minister and everyone else | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
has to tell us all whether they ve now got Portuguese or whatever it is | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
Nanny is. Is this the most cack-handed intervention on an | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
immigration issue in a long list? I think it is and when I saw this | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
being trailed the night before, I worried for him. As soon as a | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
minister of the Crown uses the phrase "wealthy metropolitan elite" | :07:02. | :07:36. | |
more likely we see it in recession. We've just had the worst recession | :07:37. | :07:43. | |
in several decades. It's no small problem but compared to what | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
ministers like James Brokenshire has been saying for the past few years | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
and also the reluctance to issue the report earlier, I thought that, | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
combined with the speech, made it quite a bad week for the department. | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
Was this a cack-handed attempt to appeal to the UKIP voters? I think | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
so and he's predecessor had to leave the job because of having a foreign | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
cleaner. It drew attention to the Tories' biggest problem, the out of | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
touch problem. Most people around the country probably don't have a | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
Portuguese nanny and you've just put a big sign over David Cameron | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
saying, this man can afford a Portuguese Nanny. It is not the | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
finest political operation ever conducted and the speech was | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
definitely given by the Home Office to Number Ten but did Number Ten | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
bother to read it? It was a complete shambles. The basic argument that | :08:34. | :08:40. | |
there is a divide between a wealthy metropolitan elite and large parts | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
of Middle Britain or the rest of the country I think is basically sound. | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
It is but they are on the wrong side of it. What do you mean by that The | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
Tory government is on the wrong side. This is appealing to UKIP | :08:54. | :09:00. | |
voters and we know that UKIP is appealing to working-class voters | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
who have previously voted Labour and Tory. If you set up that divide | :09:04. | :09:06. | |
make sure you are on the right side stop When you talk about | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
metropolitan members of the media class, they say that it is rubbish | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
and everyone has a Polish cleaner. No, they don't. I do not have a | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
clean! I don't clean behind the fridge, either! Most people in the | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
country don't have a cleaner. The problem for the Tories on this is, | :09:28. | :09:38. | |
why play that game? You can't out-UKIP UKIP. After two or three | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
years of sustained Tory effort to do that, they will probably finish | :09:44. | :09:50. | |
behind UKIP. Do we really want a political system where it becomes an | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
issue of where your nanny or your cleaner is from, if you've got one? | :09:54. | :10:00. | |
Unless, of course, they're illegal. But Portuguese or Italian or | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
Scottish... And intervention was from Nick Clegg who said his wife | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
was Dutch -- his mum was Dutch and his wife was Spanish. Not communism | :10:10. | :10:18. | |
but who your cleaner is! It's the McCarthy question! Where does your | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
cleaner come from. A lot of people will say are lucky to have a | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
cleaner. I want to move onto selfies but first, on the Nigel Farage | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
Nick Clegg debate, let's stick with the TV one. Who do you think will | :10:34. | :10:41. | |
win? Nigel Farage. Clegg. He is a surprisingly good in debates and | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
people have forgotten. I think Clegg is going to win. I think Farage has | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
peaked. We're going to keep that on tape as well! Two 214 Clegg there. | :10:51. | :11:00. | |
Selfies. Politicians are attempting to show they're down with the kids. | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
Let's look at some that we've seen in recent days. | :11:05. | :11:14. | |
Why are they doing this, Helen? I'm so embarrassed you call me reading | :11:15. | :11:52. | |
the SNP manifesto, as I do every Saturday! They do it because it | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
makes them seem authentic and that's the big Lie that social media tells | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
you - that you're seeing the real person. You're not, you're seeing a | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
very carefully manicured, more witty person. That doesn't work for | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
politicians. It looks so fake and I'm still suffering the cringe I see | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
every time I see Cameronserious phone face. Does Mr Cameron really | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
think it big Sim up because he's on the phone to President Obama? Obama | :12:23. | :12:31. | |
is not the personality he once was. There is an international crisis in | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
Ukraine - of course we are expecting to be speaking to Obama! And if you | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
were in any doubt about what a man talking on the telephone looks like, | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
here's a photo. I must confess, I didn't take my own selfie. Did your | :12:45. | :12:50. | |
nanny? My father-in-law took it Where is your father-in-law from? | :12:51. | :12:56. | |
Scotland. Just checking. Janan, I think we've got one of you. The 1%! | :12:57. | :13:11. | |
What a great telephone! Where did you get that telephone? It looks | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
like Wolf Of Wall Street! That's what I go to bed in. It showed how | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
excited Cameron was to be on the phone to Obama. All our politicians | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
think they are living a mini version of US politics. President Obama goes | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
on a big plane and we complain when George Osborne goes first class on | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
first Great Western. They want to be big and important like American | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
politics but it doesn't work. We'll see your top at next week! | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
That's it for this week. Faxed all our guests. The Daily Politics is on | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
all this week at lunchtime on BBC Two. We'll be back here same time, | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
same place next week. Remember, if it's Sunday, it is the Sunday | :13:54. | :13:55. | |
Politics. | :13:56. | :14:00. |