02/03/2014 Sunday Politics East Midlands

Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.

Fears that Ukraine could face invasion escalate this morning as

Russian forces take control of Crimea. President Obama and his

European allies tell President Putin to back off. It doesn't sound like

he's listening. Shadow Education Secretary Tristram

Hunt has started spelling out Labour's plans for schools. So

what's the verdict - full marks, or must try harder? He joins us for the

Sunday Interview. And all the big political parties

are desperate to broaden their appeal. We'll look at some unusual

In the East Midlands, ?4,000 to help you insulate your home ` we'll be

looking at the government's attempt to relaunch its Green Deal.

And the desperate search for more foster carers.

and people deal with benefit changes. And tightening household

finances. And with me, as always, three

journalists who'd make a clean sweep if they were handing out Oscars for

political punditry in LA tonight. But just like poor old Leonardo

DiCaprio they've never won so much as a Blue Peter badge! Yes, it's

Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. Instead of acceptance

speeches they'll be tweeting faster than the tears roll down Gwyneth

Paltrow's face. Yes, that's as luvvie as we get on this show.

Events have been moving quickly in Ukraine this weekend. The interim

government in Kiev has put the Ukrainian military on full combat

alert after Russia's parliament rubber-stamped the deployment of

Russian troops anywhere in Ukraine. Russian troops seem already to be in

control of the mainly Russian-speaking Crimea region,

where Russia has a massive naval base. President Obama told President

Putin that Russia has flouted international law by sending in

Russian troops but the Kremlin is taking no notice. This is now

turning into the worst stand-off between Russia and the West since

the conflict between Georgia and Russia in 2008, though nobody

expects any kind of military response from the West. Foreign

Secretary William Hague is on his way to Kiev this morning to show his

support for the new government, though how long it will survive is

another matter. We can speak to our correspondent David Stern, he's in

Kiev. As things look from Kiev, can we

take it they've lost Crimea, it is now in all essence under Russian

control? Yes, well for the moment, Crimea is under Russian control

Russian troops in unmarked uniforms have moved throughout the peninsula

taking up various positions, also at the Ismis which links Ukraine into

Crimea. They've surrounded Ukrainon troops there. Three units have been

captured according to a top officials. We can say at the moment

Russia controls the peninsula. It should also be said, also they have

the support of the ethnic Russian population. The ethnic Russians make

up the majority of the population. They are also not entirely in

control because there are other groups, namely the Tatar as and the

ethnic Ukrainian speakers who are at least at the moment tacitly

resisting. We'll see what they'll start to do in the coming days.

David, I'm putting up some pictures showing Russian troops digging in on

the border between Crimea and Ukraine. I get the sense that is

just for show. There is, I would assume, no possibility that the

Ukrainians could attempt to retake Crimea by military force? It seems

that the Ukrainians are weighing their options right now. Their

options are very limited. Any head-to-head conflict with Russia

would probably work against the Ukrainians. They seem to be taking

more of a long-term gain. They are waiting for the figs's first move.

They are trying not to create any excuse that the Russians can stage

an even larger incursion into Crimea or elsewhere, for that matter. They

also seem to be trying to get international support. It should be

said, this is a new Government. It has only been installed this week.

They are trying to gain their footing. This is a major crisis

They have to count on the loyalty of the army they might have some

resistance from solders from the eastern part of the country who are

Russian speaking. They probably could count on Ukrainian speakers

and people from the centre and west of the country as well as regular

Ukrainians. A lot of people are ready to fight to defend Ukrainian

Terre Tory. Where does the Kremlin go next? They have Crimea to all

intents and purposes. There's a weak Government in Kiev. Do they move to

the eastern side of Ukraine which is largely Russian speaking and there's

already been some unrest there? That's the big question, that's what

everybody's really asking now. Where does this go from here? We've had

some unrest in the eastern part of the country. There have been

demonstrations and clashes. More ominously, there have been noises

from the Kremlin they might actually move into eastern Ukraine. Putin in

his conversation with Barack Obama said they might protect their

interests there. It should be said, if they do expand, in fact, they've

also said they are dead against the new Government seeing it as

illegitimate and fascist. It does contain risks. They will have to

deal with international reactions. America said there will be a deep

reaction to this and it will affect Russia's relations with Ukraine and

the international community. They have to deal with the reaction in

Ukraine. This may unite Ukrainians behind this new interim Government.

Once Russia moves in, they will be seen as an invading force. It plays

on historical feelings of Russia being an imperial force.

Joining me is MP Mark Field who sits on the security Security and

Intelligence Committee in the House of Commons. What should the western

response be to these events? I can understand why William Hague is

going to Kiev tomorrow to stand side by side whizz whoever's in charge.

They need to CEOP sit numbers and also President Putin. The truth is

we are all co significant fatries to the Budapest Memorandum of almost 20

years ago which was designed to maintain the integrity of the

Ukraine and Crimea. There needs to be a discussion along those lines.

The difficulty is President Putin has watched events in recent months,

in relation to Syria, it is palpable President Obama's focus of attention

ask the other side of the Pacific rather than the Atlantic. The vote

in the House of Commons, I was very much against the idea of military

action or providing weapons to the free Syrian army. My worry is,

events proved this, the majority of the other options toed as sad are

rather worse. It is clear now we are in a constitutional mess in this

country. We cannot even contemplate military action without a

parliamentary vote that moves against quick reaction that is

required from the executive or, I suspect, there will be very little

appetite for any military action from the West over in Ukraine. We

are corn tours under the agreement of less than 20 years ago. We may be

but we've guaranteed an agreement which it is clear we haven't the

power to enforce. You wrote this morning, Britain is a diminished

voice. Clams Iley navigating the Syrian conflict we relick wished

decisions to the whims of parliamentary approval. That may or

may not be but the Kremlin's not watching how we voted on the Syrian

issue? In relation to Syria, it was where is the western resolve here.

The truth ask Putin's position is considerably less strong. In

diplomatic terms. He had a victory in Syria in relation to chemical

weapons and in relation to the West's relationship with Iran. Putin

is a vital inter locking figure In demographic and economic terms,

Russia's in very deep trouble. The oil price started to fall to any

degree, oil and gas price, given the importance of mineral wealth and

exports for the Russian economy Putin would be in a lot of trouble.

It requires an engagement from the EU and the EU are intending to look

at their internal economic problems and will be smarting from the

failure within a matter of hours of the deal they tried to broker only

nine days' ago. You say if Mr Putin decides to

increase the stakes and moves into the east, takes over the whole

place, our Government, you say, will find itself with another colossal

international headache. Some people watching this will be thinking,

what's it got to do with us? It s a long way away from Britain. We

haven't a dog in this fight? We have in this regard for the longer term

here. I think if there were to be some military action in Ukraine the

sense of Russia taking over, it could have a major impact on the

global economy in very quick order. You should not deny that. There will

be move to have sanctions against Russia. The escalation of that will

be difficult. The other fact is looking at our internal affairs and

reform, partners, the Baltic states, Finland, Poland, the Czech Republic,

they will be looking at a resurgent Russia now and think they'll need to

hold as tightly as possible to the EU institutions and the power of

Germany at the centre of that. This whole appetite for the reforms

politically and economically will be closed very much within a matter of

a short period of time. It has longer term implications. Mark

Field, thank you. We're joined now by BBC News night's

Diplomatic Editor Mark Urban. Is there any prospect of a western

military response? Clearly at the moment, it is nil. The boat has

sailed with the Crimean. It has been per performed by Russian forces It

is now a matter of coordinating a plate cal line. European foreign

ministers tomorrow. To say what will our future limits be? Where could we

possibly draw red lines? To try to think a couple of steps down this,

what happens if Russia interrupts energy supplies to EU member states

ornate owe countries? These are the important steps they have to think

about. It is quite clear we are in a different world here now. Also,

Ukraine is facing a urgent foreign exchange crisis. Within literally a

few weeks they could run out of money. All of these are rushing

towards decision makers very fast. There is an interim and I suggestion

unstable Government in Kiev. Crimea semi-to be under Russian control.

There are clashes between the reformers and Russian nationals in

the east of the country. What does Mr Putin do next? He has lots of

options, of course. He has this carte blanch carte blanch from his

Parliament to go in to the rest of Ukraine if he wants to. His military

deployment suggests the one bite at a time, just Crimea to start with.

See what response comes from the Ukrainian Government. Of course so

far, there hasn't been a coherent response. The really worrying thing

about recent months, not just recent days, are the indications that the

future of Ukraine as a unitary state is now in doubt. Look at it from the

other side of the equation. The President when faced with

demonstrations, many extremists he was unable to deal with that. Now we

have the other side, if you like, the Russian speakers, the other side

of the fight, Russian nationalists showing they can get away with

unilateral action more or less with impunity. The Ukrainian chiefs have

been sacked. I think there are considerable questions now as to

whether Ukraine is falling apart and, if that happens, we're into a

Yugoslav-type situation which will continue posing very serious

questions for the EU and NATO for months or years to come. So, Janan,

Ukraine is over? Where the west to concede to the Russian in Crimea, it

would perversely be a net loss for Russia. You'd assume the rest of

Ukraine would become an un unambiguously a member of the the

EU, maybe NATO. On top of that a Russian dream of Eurasion dream

they will look at Putin's behaviour and is a, no, thanks, we'll head

towards the EU. It is a short-term victory for Putin which backfires on

his broader goals in Well, many people said if he grabs Crimea, he

loses Ukraine, which is your point. We have seen violent demonstrations

in the big eastern cities in Ukraine yesterday. People taking control of

certain buildings. The risk is there of spreading beyond Crimea. I think

the lack of any unified or visible response from Ukrainian armed

forces... They allowed Russian troops to walk into the bases in

Crimea. They have supposedly gone on red alert but they have done

absolutely nothing. We don't see them deploying from barracks. There

are serious questions about whether they would just fall apart. Putin is

not going to let them split away. I would have thought he would like the

entire Ukraine to come into the Russian ambit. Barack Obama is

saying this will not stand. He has a 90 minute conversation with Vladimir

Putin and what is his response? I am suspending my cooperation in the

run-up to the Sochi Summit. What is the EU doing? Nothing. There is

nothing they can do and Putin knows there are a series of lines that he

is able to cross and get away with it. Why should Berlin, London,

Washington be surprised by the strength of Vladimir Putin's

reaction? It was never going to let Ukraine just fall into the arms of

the EU. That is the interesting point. And who does he listen to?

Paddy Ashdown was saying sent Angela Merkel because she is the only

person who can talk to him and I find that response worrying. We need

to speak with a united voice but nobody knows what we should be

saying. Military intervention is out for the West so we go to economic

sanctions. Doesn't Vladimir Putin just say, oh, you want sanctions? I

have turned off the gas tap. Yes, it is move and countermove, and it is

difficult to predict where it will end up. In all these meetings that

are being held, they do think a step or two ahead and try and set out

clear lines. Thank you for coming in this morning.

Labour has been struggling since 2010 to decide exactly how to take

education secretary Michael Gove, one of the boldest reformers of the

coalition and most divisive figures. Ed Miliband appointed TV historian

Tristram Hunt and many thought Labour had found the man to teach

Michael Gove a lesson. But how much do we really know about the party's

plans for England's schools? Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are a

devolved matter. Child has been back to school to find out. A politician

once told me, do you know why education secretaries changed

schools? Because they can. Michael Gove might dispute the motive but he

is changing schools, like this one. The changes he is ringing in our

encouraging them to be academies, free from local authorities to

control their own budgets, ushering in free schools, focusing on

toughening exams and making them the core of the curriculum with less

coursework, and offering heads more discretion on tougher discipline.

And he is in a hurry to put all this in place. But has that shut out any

chance for a Labour Government to change it all themselves and do they

really want to? Any questions? Visiting a different school, first

in line to get a crack at that would-be Labour's third shadow

education secretary since 2010, Tristram Hunt. In post, he has not

been taken about fine tuning previous direct opposition to free

schools and he has also suggested teachers in England would have to be

licensed under a Labour Government, allowing the worst to be sacked and

offering training and development to others and of course ending

coalition plans to allow unqualified teachers into classrooms. Full

policy detail is still unmarked work. Your opinion about evolution?

What is very clear is that Labour's education policy is still evolving.

We are learning that they have some clear water, but we also seem, from

the sting at the back, to get the feeling that there is not a great

deal of difference from them and the current Government on types of

schools and the way education should proceed. -- from listening at the

back. So what exactly is different about their policy? What Tristram

Hunt's job is to do is to be open and honest about the shared agenda

between us and the Tories. There are a lot of areas where there is clear

water between us and Tristram Hunt as to turn his back, shared agenda,

stop fighting it, and forge our agenda, which I think people will be

really interested in. The art of Government, of course, is to balance

competing pictures of policy, even inside your own party. It is fair to

say that if Labour reflects and draws its own visions of a shared

agenda, it might have to square that idea with teaching unions, who are

already unhappy with the pace and tone of change that the Government

had sketched out. What we sincerely hope is that if Labour were to form

the next Government, that they would look at a serious review of

accountability measures. That is really what ways on teachers every

single day. Actually they would look at restoring the possibility, for

example, of local councillors to be able to open schools. That seems

eminently sensible. If they are not going to move back from the free

schools and academies programme at the very least they need to say that

academy chains will be inspected because at the moment they are not.

Labour have balls in the air on education and are still throwing

around precise policy detail. There are areas that they could grab hold

of and seize possession. A focus on the rounding of the people,

developing character, the impact of digitalisation on the classroom

Also the role and handling of teachers in the system and the

interdependence of schools. That is all still to play for. Currently I

think the difference between the parties is that the coalition

policies, while we do not agree with all of them, are clear and explicit,

and Labour's policies are yet to be formulated in a way that everybody

can understand clearly. I don't think that Tristram Hunt or Miliband

will want to pick unnecessary fights before the election. I think we will

have quite a red, pinkish fuzziness around the whole area of policy but

after the election there will be grey steel from Tristram Hunt. But

if fuzzy policy before the election is the lesson plan, it does rather

risk interested voters being left in the dark.

Tristram Hunt joins me now for the Sunday interview.

Welcome. Thank you. Which of Michael Gove's school reforms would you

repeal? We are not interested in throwing a change for the sake of

it. When I go round schools, teachers have been through very

aggressive changes in the last three years, so when it comes to some of

the curriculum reforms we have seen, we are not interested in changing

those for the sake of it. Where we are interested in making change is

having a focus on technical and vocational education, making sure

that the forgotten 15% is properly addressed in our education system.

What we saw in your package was an interesting description of how we

have seen structural reforms in the names of schools. Academies, free

schools, all the rest of it. International evidence is clear that

it is the quality of leadership of the headteachers and the quality of

teaching in the classroom that transforms the prospects of young

people. Instead of tinkering around the names of schools, we focus on

teacher quality. Viewers will be shocked to note that this Government

approves of unqualified teachers in the classroom. We want to have fully

qualified, passionate, motivated teachers in the classroom. It sounds

like you might not repeal anything. You might build on it and you might

go in a different direction, with more emphasis on technological

education but no major repeal of the reforms of Michael Gove? I don't

think you want to waste energy on undoing reforms. In certain

situations they build on Labour Party policy. We introduced the

sponsored academy programmes and we began the Teach First programmes,

and we began the London challenge which transformed the educational

prospects of children in London We want to roll that out across the

country. You have said there will be no more free schools, which Michael

Gove introduced, but you will allow parents let academies, which just

means free schools by a different name. No, because they will be in

certain areas. We want to create new schools with parents. What we have

at the moment is a destructive and market-driven approach to

education. I was in Stroud on Thursday and plans for a big new

school, in an area with surplus places, threatened to destroy the

viability of local, rural schools. We want schools to work together in

a network of partnership and challenge, rather than this

destructive market-driven approach. You say that, but your version of

free schools, I think, would only be allowed where there is a shortage of

places. That means that where there is an excess of bad schools, parents

will have no choice. They still have to send their kids to bad schools.

And we have to transform bad schools and that was always the Labour way

in Government. At the moment we just have an insertion of new schools.

Schools currently underperforming are now underperforming even more.

Children only have one chance at education. What about their time in

school? Our focus is on the leadership of the headteacher and

having quality teachers in the classroom. So they cannot set up new

better schools and they have to go to the bad schools. Tony Blair said

it should be easier for parents to set up new schools where they are

dissatisfied with existing schools. You are not saying that. Even where

they are dissatisfied with existing schools, they cannot set up free

schools and you are reneging on that. We live in difficult economic

circumstances where we have got to focus public finances on the areas

of absolute need. We need 250,0 0 new school places. 150,000 in London

alone. We have to focus on building new schools and where we have to put

them. And secondly... Absolutely not. Focusing on those schools.

Making sure we turned them around, just as we did in Government. We

have had a remarkable degree of waste under the free school

programme. If you think of the free school in Derby, the Academy in

Bradford, and as we saw in the Telegraph on Friday, the free

schools in Suffolk, a great deal of waste of public money on

underperforming free schools. That is not the Labour way. We focus on

making sure that kids in schools at the moment get the best possible

education. Except that in your own backyard, in Stoke, only 34% of

secondary school pupils attend a good or outstanding school. 148 out

of 150 of the worst performing local authorities and it is

Labour-controlled. Still terrible schools and yet you say parents

should not have the freedom to start a better school. We have great

schools in Stoke-on-Trent as well. We face challenges, just as

Wolverhampton does and the Isle of Wight and Lincolnshire. Just like

large parts of the country. What is the solution to that? Making sure we

share excellence among the existing schools and making sure we have

quality leadership in schools. Those schools in Stoke-on-Trent are all

academies. It is not a question only of structure but of leadership. It

is also a question of going back to the responsibility of parents to

make sure their kids are school ready when they get to school. To

make sure they are reading to their children in the evening. We can t

put it all on teachers. Parents have responsibilities. I understand that

but you have told me Labour's policy would not be to set up new schools

which parents hope will be better. Parents continue to send their kids

to bad schools in areas like Stoke. Labour has had plenty of time to

sort out these schools in Stoke and they are still among the worst

performing in the country. You are condemning these parents to having

to send their kids to bad schools. Where we have seen the sett ing up

of Derby, Suffolk, we have seen that is not the simple solution. Is

simply setting up a new is not a successful model. What works is good

leadership. I was in Birmingham on Friday at a failing comprehensive is

not a successful model. What works is good leadership. I was in

Birmingham on Friday at a failing comprehensive school and now people

are queueing round the block to get into it. You can turn around schools

with the right leadership, passionate and motivated teachers,

and parents engaged with the learning outcome of their kids. In

the last few years of the Labour Government, only four kids from your

this Government would set up the new school. In Birmingham, they got in a

great headmaster and turned the school around and now people are

queueing round the block to get into it. You can turnaround schools with

the right leadership, passionate and motivated teachers, and parents

engaged with the learning outcome of their kids. In the last few years of

a Labour Government, only four kids from your area of and you had plenty

of chances to put this right but only four got to the two and you had

plenty of chances to put this right but only four got to the two leading

universities. Traditionally young people could leave school at 16 and

walking two jobs in the potteries, the steel industry, the

traditionally young people could leave school at 16 and walking two

jobs in the potteries, the steel industry, the but also to get an

apprenticeship at Jaguar Land Rover, JCB, Rolls-Royce. That is why

Ed Miliband's focus on the forgotten 15%, which we have just not seen

from this Government, focusing on technical and vocational pathways,

is fundamental to Your headmaster was guiles Slaughter. Was he a good

teacher? He He never taught me. Over 90% of teeners in the private

sector are qualified. They look for not simply teachers with qualified

teacher status. Teachers with MAs. Teachers who are improving them

cephalitis. Becoming better educators.

cephalitis. Becoming better teaching. You were taught by

unqualified teachers. Your parents paid over ?15,000 a year for you

being taught by unqualified teachers. Why did you make such a

big deal of it? Because we've seen right around the world those

education systems which focus on having the most qualified teachers

perform the best. It cannot be right that anyone can simply turn up, as

at the moment, have schools at veritising for unqualified teachers

teaching in the classroom. We want the best qualified teachers with the

deepest subject knowledge, for the passion in learning for their kids.

It is absurd we are having arguments about this. Simply having a paper

qualification doesn't make you a great teacher. Let me take you to

Brighton college. It is gone from the 147th to the 18 18th best

private school in the land. Fllt the headmaster says:

This is the top Sundaytimes school of the year. The school in derby

where this Government allowed unqualified teaching assist taints.

We had teachers who could barely speak English. That is because if

you have unqualified teachers you end up with a dangerous situation.

The problem with that school was not unqualified teachers. People were

running that school who were unfit to run a school. We have an issue

about discipline and behaviour management in some of our schools.

Some of the skills teachers gain through qualifications and learning

is how to manage classes and get the best out of kids at every stage. It

doesn't end with a qualified teacher status. That's just the beginning.

We want our teachers to have continue it will development. It is

not good enough to have your initial teacher trainingaged work through

your career for 30 years. You need continual learning. Learning how to

deal with digital technology. Refresh your subject knowledge. As

an historian I help teachers. You've taught as an unqualified teacher.

Not in charge of a subject group. I give the odd lecture. I'm-y to go to

as many schools as possible. I don't blame you. It is uplifting. Would

you sack all unqualified teachers? We'd want them all to gain teacher

status. What if they say no? If they are not interested in improving

skills and deepening their knowledge they should not be in the classroom.

If a free school or academy hired a teach thinking they are a great

teacher but unqualified, if they are then forced by you to fire them,

they will be in breach of the law. They are being urged by us to make

sure they have qualified teacher status. We've lots of unqualified

teachers as long as they are on the pathway to making sure they are

qualified. But if they say they don't want to do this, will you fire

them? It is not an unreasonable suggestion is that the teachers in

charge of our young people have qualifications to teach and inspire

our young people particularly when we face global competition from

Shanghai, Korea and so on. The head teacher of Brighton college finds

incredibly inspeechational teachers who don't' necessarily have a

teaching qualifications. It is a different skill to teach ten young

nice boys and girls in Brighton to teaches 20 or 30 quids with

challenging circumstances, special educational needs, different

ability. Being a teacher at Brighton college is an easy gig in comparison

to other schools. Where we want teachers to have a capacity to teach

properly. Do you think Tristram could ever lead the Labour Party? I

think Ed is a great leader, the reforms yesterday were a real sign

for his leadership. And the fact David Owen, the man with a

pre-history with our party is back with us. It is great. Even Gideon

had to change his name to George. Have you thought of switching to

Tommy or Tony? Maybe not Tony! Michael Foot was called Dingle Foot.

I love the Labour because it accepts everybody from me to Len McCluskey.

We are a big, broad happy family on our way to Government. Thank you

very much. You're watching The Sunday Politics.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us for Sunday

politics Scotland. In over 20 minutes I'll look at

In the East Midlands, could you turn someone's life around? The desperate

plea for more people to come forward as foster carers.

It does in a way surprise me that not so many people are wanting to

foster or adopt children. So yeah, I think more people should.

Just have a look at how much loft insulation you've got up here.

??WHIT E And ?4,000 cashback for insulating your home ` we'll be

looking at a new lease of life for a scheme designed to give us all lower

electricity bills. ?? I'm Marie Ashby, and my guests

this week, the Liberal Democrat Parliamentary candidate for

Ashfield, and on Nottinghamshire County Council Jason Zadrozny, and

Labour's MP for Nottingham South, Lilian Greenwood.

But first, it's been a big week in the battle over council cuts, with

two of our councils approving controversial budgets. There were

protests at County Hall in West Bridgford, as Nottinghamshire County

Council approved ?80 million of cuts. The new budget withdraws

funding to Nottingham Playhouse, homeless groups and youth services.

Leicester City Council is looking to cut ?40 million and 100 jobs, and

services are being hit there too. Jason, you are a County Council in

Nottinghamshire. Did you accept these cuts have to be made? I think

we agreed with it might of money that needed to be saved, but

certainly my group and almost every opposition councillor for their work

other ways to do it. Alternative budget showed that. So we could have

saved some of those vital front`line services without making such big

changes to people's lives. But how could they have not make those

changes? You need to actually put your shoulder to the wheel and be

more creative. The alternate budgets look at ways of outsourcing some of

the back office things, planning services, and saving money there.

And they are already doing things like that? Some of it, but that

cancelled times over `` terms of over half ?1 billion per year. A

Labour authority cutting grants to the homeless. Surely there must have

been some other way of doing this. These are cuts that absolutely

nobody would want, and I know lots of Labour councillors are struggling

with this, but the Government has cut the amount of money available by

40% in this Parliament and made really unfair cuts. The councils

with the most deprivation have been cut the most. In Nottinghamshire

County they have lost ?63 per person compared with some of the least

deprived areas like summary and Nottinghamshire which have lost

about half that amount. The blame lies very squarely with the Lib Dems

and Tories and Government. Of course Lilian would say that. Those other

councils we talk about had much less to take away from in the first

place. The reason Nottinghamshire had a bigger chunk taken away was

that it is so reliant on grants. For year after year they have asked for

grants instead of diversifying their ink constraint. We have different ``

good services we could have charged for.

Well, next, there's been a desperate plea for more people to come forward

as foster carers, to help some of the most vulnerable children in

society. Councils say the number of young people being put into care has

rocketed in the wake of child abuse scandals. Our political editor John

Hess has been meeting foster carers and people whose lives have been

turned around by being placed with a new family.

and people whose lives have been Saying thanks, 19`year`old Naomi

Maher makes a Chinese Lockhart for a foster mother. She is back home in

to ensure after the opportunity of a lifetime food to visit western

China. `` love heart. She is also back home to her foster parents.

When I first came into care I went to maybe five or six different

placements in quite a short period of time, which I guess for anybody

could be quite daunting and quite confusing. So I think when I finally

came here it was much better for my emotional well`being to be in a

stable family. Eleanor Morrison has been Naomi's

foster mother for 12 years. I always wanted a big family. I had three

children, and so we decided that we could offer something else to some

other children. Naomi's step is university, but not every child in

care finds a ready`made foster home. In Nottinghamshire there is a real

shortage. For councils like Nottinghamshire

facing severe budget pressures, this is why it needs to find war foster

parents, because the cost of the Council of putting a child in

council residential care is almost 2,100 pounds per week impaired to

?447 per week, the cost to the Council of putting a child in a

foster home. It was the repercussions of the Baby

Peter child cruelty case in north London that forced a national of a

national overhaul in council all asleep towards child protection.

More children are now in care. For Kate Foale, the politician in

charge of children's care services, but finds `` means finding more

foster parents. There are 400 more children in care than there were

four or five years ago. We must the acute budget pressures as well on

residential care. `` that must be. Yes, the absolute best place for

children is in a loving, caring foster home or adoptive home. Not

only is it cheaper, it is much better for them.

If only finding foster parents was as easy as picking flowers. The

County Council needs 25 extra carers each year. Lisa Creasey is one of

them. She and her husband started fostering four years ago. You meet

with somebody from the Social Services, you talk about the reasons

why you would like to foster, and you spend quite a few weeks, weekly

visits, having a social work are coming to see you running through

everything, your background, your family's needs, it is quite a

lengthy process, and sometimes it can feel quite personal. But as a

potential foster carer you want to feel that you are safe to be looking

at these children. This is the Chinese word for love.

Naomi is starting out her life as a young adult, thanks to foster

parents who gave her a warm, loving home when she needed it most. It

surprises me that not so many people are wanting to foster or adopt

children. So yes, I think more people should.

Well, we're joined from our London studio now by Dr Lucy Peake from the

Fostering Network ` Lucy, hi, we heard in John's report that there's

been this big rise in young people being taken into care. Are

politicians doing enough? Avec in general politicians

understand the needs of children who are coming into care and the need to

recruit more foster care was to look after them. But the financial

packages are in place `` must be in place, to support those foster

carers who are providing the care to those vulnerable children. So it is

about finances to ensure that we recruit your `` right people, but

also support those foster carers once they are doing the job. It

makes sense to invest in this wisely, because it is so much

cheaper for someone to go into foster care than to go into a home.

I was a foster carer for three or four years. I always felt the County

Council did not invest enough to make people feel like it was

something they could do, training and support, and if they can save

some money as well they can reinvest that in exactly those things so

people can feel confident about offering some support and love in

terms of a family for somebody who needs it. And we do more, though Tom

when we have been talking about cuts in budgets? Is back can we do more?

I think that is one of the challenges that local authorities

are facing, but it is also about telling people that they could beat

foster carers. It is open to anyone over 21, whether they are unemployed

or employed. `` whether they could be foster carers. It is about

whether you can offer a loving home to a child but has support needs. It

is the `` import that people know there is support available, both

financial and training and help. If you are taking on a child from a

difficult ground, you want to be wanted you do that. So is there

enough money going into this? The Government has said there is no

hierarchy of care, but we can see that more Government funding goes

into adoption than fostering. So we are keen to say, let us put the

money to support fostering as well. There is a huge disparity as well on

the amount spent on adoption, I think it is ?50 million, and I think

three quarters of a million on fostering. That is at national

level. Local authorities are working really hard to continue to recruit

foster carers. The challenge as you said is that the are more children

coming into care, and also a churn within the foster carer population,

so some are retiring and local authorities therefore need to meet

the new demand, but also replace those foster carers who are leaving.

What was your experience like, Jason? It was quite positive. When

you get elected to County Council you cannot be a foster carer any

longer. I always felt there was a little bit too much pressure, I had

a young boy brought to me, emergency respite, he was there two years. So

there was this need that they did not prepare people for properly. It

is an incredibly rewarding process. But I think the County Council 's

need to do much more to say, if this is for you we will support you

better. One of the things Nottinghamshire County Council told

us is that one of the big problems they face is that many people are

interested in fostering, but more so in younger children, under four

years old for example. But they have so many teenagers who need a home.

That is similar across the country. We have a real need to recruit

foster carers to look after sibling groups, teenagers and children with

disabilities. So it is really important we talk about the

different types of foster care are available, and we try and reach out

to as many people as possible and encourage them to come forward. How

can we make it easier, because obviously it is not an easy thing to

do obviously to be a foster parent, there are so many hoops and hurdles

to go through. We have to give people the confidence that they can

be foster carers, that it is about having energy, being able to listen

and empathise, and the fact that you will be able to get support in

dealing with children with complex needs or learning disabilities.

Everybody's teenagers can be a challenge anyway, so I think it is

partly about telling people they can be foster carers, but to come back

to the other point we were talking about budgets, we need county

councils, people like Jason, to be standing up for Nottinghamshire and

saying we need fair funding in our county, because if we are having to

deal with cuts you have got to make those numbers add up. So why should

people do it, why should somebody decide to become a foster parent?

Foster carers come forward because they want to make a difference to

children's lives. The about whether you want to make a difference to a

child's lives, if so that other foster carers.

`` if so talk to other foster carers.

Now, from giving children a warm welcome to keeping warm and cutting

our fuel bills. The Government is planning a relaunch of its Green

Deal, a scheme designed to persuade more people to take up energy`saving

measures. It's been criticised for being too complicated in the past

and take`up's been rather slow, but changes to be unveiled next month

should make it easier for people to get cash help to insulate their

homes and cut down on their electricity bills. Des Coleman's

been finding out what it all means. I am at a typical house in

Leicester. Mike is doing a Green Deal assessment. What is that? Are

basically carrying out energy performance certificate, the

prerequisite to a Green Deal plan. This property is a solid wall

construction, so it is of real revelling `` relevance to a Green

Deal. You are from the company that

employs Mike. He is giving the property and energy rating, which

will typically be a two grams, they being the highest and G being the

worst. A solid walled house could save customers up to ?750,000 per

year on their fuel bills. How is this pay for? It is paid for with a

Green Deal finance loan. How that works is if they are typically `` if

their typical electron were 100 pounds per month, it might reduce

them `` the bill to around ?60 per month, but the customer would still

have to repay the Green Deal load which may be ?20 per month. So

together with a Green Deal loan and interest, they may be repaying ?80

per month but typically they have saved ?20 per month. What measures

are we talking? That a lot of measures available, 45 in total, but

the main ones are solid wall insulation, cavity insulation, a new

condensing boiler, some of the renewable measures like air source

heat pumps. The uptake has not been great. No, it has been slow to begin

with, but the Government has put new incentives in place, so for a solid

walled house such as this one you could get up to ?4000 cashback once

the energy efficiency measures have been installed. Is that actually

cashback or part of the loan? It is cashback. Once the energy efficiency

measure has been installed, the customer will have a voucher they

can redeem, and it will actually be cash they are free to spend in any

way they choose. Well, Mike has done his assessment

and it seems like this House, for an expenditure of ?9,000 on solid wall

insulation and loft insulation, can save around 850 pounds per year and

get ?400,000 `` ?4000 cashback. Is this a good enough incentive to get

thousands of homes taking it up? This is something you have taken a

keen interest in. Were these changes make a difference? We all agreed

that energy efficiency is important to bringing down bills. The

Government scheme is just simply too complex and not sufficiently

affordable. It is about loans at interest rates of six. People will

spend more on interest rates than they will on the measures.

Unfortunately so far, there has only been about 1,200 people had

assessment, and 750 taking it up. It has been almost 150,000 assessments

done, 1,700 and take it up and 80% of the 150,000 and have either had

further work done, are in the process `` progress of it or are

considering it. I spoke to the Department of energy and climate

change today and those were the figures they presented. They are

really positive about it. It has been going a year, this is a

programme that will work for decades. We will make people's homes

warmer and bring their bills down. Labour have no other plans to change

it, they do not like it, but it is an important issue and we need to

bring it right. `` make it right. Jason, your figures do not match up

with the figures are and the BBC have had. Lilian has been so badly

taken up, but people are worried what will happen if they have two

sell the houses in the future. `` Green Deal has been so badly taken

up. Our scheme would have lower`cost loans for homes and small

businesses, and we will be publishing a green paper on this

later this year. We have already taken very strong steps to set out

what we would do to help people faced with the high costs of energy.

You can shake your head, but you look at Nottingham city weather has

been huge amounts of work done in our city to tackle energy efficiency

for is stop `` where there has been. I have been working on the need for

tackling hard to treat properties... But there is a report

due to come out from a Nottingham sure `` Nottingham firm that's ``

saying that cutting VAT on board as an insulation would be more

effective. We tried that in the past. I work for B where they

tried VAT holidays on insulation, and they work to a certain level.

These things really do work. The Government are investing half ?1

billion to subsidise this work to get done more. Maybe it just seems

more `` too complicated for people. You have had a scheme in your

constituency when the project and select thousands of homes in Clifton

hit problems. British Gas announced they were pulling out because of the

changes to the way the Government finance schemes like this. What is

the latest in Clifton? When the Government announced the changes,

British Gas pulled out. The really good news is that the contracts ``

the contractors have been working at full pace to get done the work for

those people who had already signed up in Clifton North, so we hope

people who have already paid their money will get their insulation

done, and when people have it done they really appreciate the

difference it takes to their bills and have warned their homes fuels.

`` their homes feel. There are 3,000 other solid wall on the Clifton

estate, and others across the city, the trouble is that eco`has

changed, it now cannot be used alongside Green Deal. It costs

around maybe 8,000 to ?10,000 to insulate homes, and the sort of

people who were in fuel poverty cannot afford these loans. So it is

not just Clifton, Derby tell us they have had a similar plan for 7,000

homes put on hold cause of similar problems. When you are starting

something this massive, and let's face it only took it seriously, only

the Lib Dems were championing green courses, but this sort of thing if

got right brings people's Bilston, it creates tonnes of jobs and

apprenticeships. `` it brings people's bills down. People who were

about to change stuck `` start apprenticeships, they are now on

hold. We'll have to leave it there. Let's

have a look at some of the other stories happening in the East

Midlands, in our 60`second round`up. Derby has been named as one of the

top 25 places in Europe to invest in by an influential think`tank. The

report by fDi Intelligence used measures like economic potential,

the ability of its workforce and quality of life.

Tory MP Mark Spencer's been taking the bus and the tram to find out

what it's like using public transport in his Sherwood

constituency. He travelled across his patch, occasionally waiting at

the wrong bus stop. We can't even read the timetable

correctly so we were stood at the bus stop for too long, freezing

cold... He took almost seven hours ` and the

comments, by the way, were added by his office.

I think it's cost us about ?22 each to do that journey ` but I have to

say the whole thing was quite impressive.

And finally, Nottingham City Council's Deputy Leader helped to

spare the blushes of our political editor John Hess. Graham Chapman

lent a helping hand when John's notes blew away ` a rare case of

cooperation between press and politicians.

Cue the Benny Hill music really there, isn't it? Judging by Mark

Spencer's experience though on the trams and the buses, more

politicians should be getting out there on public transport, Lilian.

Well, I would hope that politicians use public transport themselves

anyway. Obviously being an MP for Nottingham that's very easy to do,

because we've got such an excellent public transport network.

You would say that. How often do you get on the bus, Jason? I don't do it

very often. I use the train a fair bit... You don't get on a bus? I

don't, I know. And Mark's probably put me off, I was expecting Olive

and Blakey to run out there at any moment! I don't think that was his

plan, to put you off, I think it was to try and encourage more people to

do it, but there you go. Thanks very much indeed, both of

you. Next week we've a special report from Afghanistan and the East

Midlands troops there ` junior defence minister and Broxtowe MP

Anna Soubry joins us in the studio ` and later in the month we're on the

road again, with a Europe special from Brussels. We'll be speaking to

all of the region's Euro MPs, so if you've got a question for them do

let us know. You can contact us by looking for BBC Sunday Politics East

Midlands on Facebook, or you can go to our

Government to change it. Thank you both for being here. Andrew, back to

you. This week grant Shap said he wanted

to rebrand the Tories as the workers' party to show it can reach

out to blue-collar workers. One Conservative Party MP said they

should scrap what he said was their boring old logo. We asked him and

two other independent MPs how they'd freshen up their logos.

Aspiration's always been our core value. About helping people get on

with life. Giving people ladders of opportunity. That's why our symbol

must reflect our values of aspiration and why I'm calling for

our symbol to be changed from a tree to a ladder which symbolises social

mobility and stands up for everything conservatism represents.

I like an he will fanned, an animal that never forgets. We're the only

party which seems to remember what life was like before the NHS and

minimum wage and the global financial crash was caused by too

little regulation not too much. We have a leader who can spot the

elephant in the room, the lack of women on the Tory frontbench. The

republicans in America have had the same idea. Theirs is a suspicious

blue. Our would be deepest red. We love our Liberal Democrat bird. Mrs

Thatcher called it the dead parrot when we launched it. We won the

Eastbourne by-election off the Tories very soon aftered with.

Perhaps it feels like we're in a coalition cage but we're escaping

that soon. Why does it fly to the right? Most Liberal Democrats would

want it to fly to the left. I hope it will soon.

Interesting there. Let's stick with the Robert Hall pin one. He was

being serious. The others were fun. It is interesting that talking about

appealing to the blue collared vote, the upper working class, lower

middle class, curiously now neither Mr Cameron nor Mr Miliband has great

cut through with these people. But in wanting to be the Workers Party,

how do you square that with choosing five old Etonians to draw up four

next manifesto. Labour said one of the things was cutting inheritance

tax, after all their priorities they went to privilege rather than earned

income. Rebranding is not enough. The one question the modernisers

never asked themselves when they took party ten years ago is the

thing we know as the Conservative Party, salvageable as a brand? I'm

beginning to think it isn't. If you look at all public opinion research,

there are lots of people in this contrary with Conservative views.

They won't vote Tory or contemplate the possibility of voting Tory. Can

we get over the electoral problems by relaunching as a different

pro-business, pro-worker party. That means new name, new logo. It will

mean new people as well. If you say you're on the sides of what Thatcher

called the strivers, the people themselves want to see you have

strivers in the people who run your party so you know what we've been

through, the struggles we've had. How many of the six drawing up the

manifesto have had ever a mortgage. The one who's not an old Etonian

went to St Paul's. He's a day schoolboy! It is interesting and it

was funny you mentioned an elephant. Don't think of an elephant as the

title of that book. Calling it the Workers Party draws attention to the

Tories biggest electoral weakness. The idea they are a class apart Out

of touch. I think it is interesting, they have identified their elections

are won or lost by this particular demo graphic of the C 1, and C .

Mrs Thatcher got them by the shed load, Tony Blair got them. His

failure in 2010 is the reason David Cameron didn't win an overall

majority. I'm disappointed with the ladder. You should have a hammer or

sickle! The Conservatives have a terrible brand problem. You heard

them explaining why they did badly in the Wythenshawe by-election,

saying there's quite a large council estate there In 1961, I think the

Conservatives won a by-election back then, they were getting through to

those sort of voters. There is not a single Conservative councillor in

Manchester. They have this terrible problem. You're right for them to

pick up on the five Etonians writing their manifesto. David Cameron sir

rounding himself with his own. He doesn't have to do that. I seas

things like isn't Robert Halpen great. He decides and has his own.

He has some more slightly common people from St Paul's! One of the

ways the Conservatives hoped to broaden their appeal is the tougher

line on immigration. We learned net immigration is rising substantially.

Back up over 200,000. Nigel Farage of UKIP wrapped up the rhetoric In

scores of our cities and market towns, this country, in a short

space of time, has become N'Zonzi rkable whether it is --

unrecognisable. Whether it is the impact on local schools and

hospitals. In many parts of England you don't hear English spoken, this

is not the kind of the community we want to leave to our children and

grandchildren. Helen, maybe people, I assume, will love the sentiments.

Others will say, this is getting... It is going down a dangerous road.

Nigel Farage's wife is German and he shares a flat with Godfully Bloom,

nobody knows what he's saying half of the time. You can handle the

letters from Yorkshire. Alex Salmond does not make his case on Scotland

for the Scottish. Let's put aside whether the policy's right or wrong.

How bad, by the Tories own lights, is the fact the net figure for

immigration went up 60,000? It looks really bad. If I was a Tory

strategist, I'd be philosophical about it. Immigration, even if they

were meeting the target, I don't think the public would believe it.

It is like crime a few years ago, the crime rates had been declining

for the best part of 20 years but the fear of crime remains high.

There's such a degree of cynicism that regardless of your

administrative record in Government, the public will remain hostile to

you. This is where Nigel Farage can be potent. He said it is not about

numbers. It is about community. It is about people seeing their

communities change. And in the Sunday Telegraph, it was said this

isn't a dog whistle, a it is a meaty bone for a bull terrier. The problem

for the Government on these figures is we know why the net migration

figures are not looking good. They got down the non-EU figures but the

EU figures are going up. From Italy and Spain as their economies tanked,

people came here. If he hadn't made such a big deal of the numbers, the

Tories, I mean, you could present this as a huge success story. If you

believe immigration was good for the country. You would say it doesn t

matter what Labour says, the best and the brightest young people from

all over Europe are voting with their feet to come to Britain. But

you never hear that case being made and certainly not by Labour. They

acknowledge although immigration is best in the abstract for the

economy, people don't feel it in their daily lives. There's a huge

vacuum for the case where immigration should be in our public

life. I remember a time when the economy was in such decline there

was a rush to the door in the sixties and seventies. Now we are

claiming our economy's doing better than any of the other major

economies bar Germany, people want to join in our success. London was a

declining city until the mid-eighties. Theresa May cannot be

honest. She was proposing a cap on immigration. Not going to happen.

Today she is saying maybe people from poorer member states cannot

come in until their economies grow. That's future accession states.

That's Turkey in ten years' time It is causing divisions with the

coalition. She's bashing Vince Cable. You often see Liberal

Democrats bashing the Tories. You don't often see a Tory minister bash

Vince Cable. She does on the immigration figures. He thought they

were good news. Last week, Vince responded to the news by saying it

was a policy he was happy for the gift to flunk. The problem was going

for a cap. There are six moving parts. UK citizens leaving, coming

back. EU citizens leaving and coming back and then third party nationals.

And students coming to study. Of course. You only have control over

the EU citizens. Have you to clamp down on ace strayian, Chinese or

American graduates. They should have gone for the Australian points

system. I don't have a pure cap on numbers just background etc. Tim

Farran said in the European election either vogue Liberal Democrat or

UKIP. He turned that to his advantage. It is hopeful but he s

come up with a way to spin this Labour has his special conference.

Was it or was it not an event? Not sure it was the biggest moment in

the party since 1918. But things fell apart in the special conference

in 1981. 2004 got another special conference. Who's on board? David

Owen who founded the gang of four. He's not joined but he's given them

money. He's not going to sit with them in the Lord's. He's given

money. They lost the gang of four. Back comes David Owen. Not historic?

Why would he want it to be more significant than it was. There's a

tendency to see him taking the fight to his party. Why would he want

that? The fact it has not pleased Grant Shapps is not a test to see

whether this has worked. It has been described as an historic moment and

incremental of what John did. The trade union block voters disappeared

a long time ago. They still have 50% of the vote. But 2,000 of union

members voting for this guy has gone. It is a reform from 20 years

ago. Welcome but not historic. Ed Miliband's stored up trouble. Len

McCluskey wants a million new homes and answered to the benefit caps is

not reconcilable with the deficit reduction strategy. In five years'

time if there is a Labour Government it becomes very difficult. We should

keep an eye on it? Always. Labour Party process is never ending.

Unlike this programme. That's all from us today. Continuing reports of

events in the Ukraine on the BBC News Channel. There's no Daily

Politics tomorrow because of cover Arg of the Nelson Mandela memorial

service at Westminster Abbey on BBC Two live. We'll be back on the Daily

Politics on Tuesday at midday. We'll be back here next week with the Work

and Pensions Secretary, Ian Smith. If it is Sunday, it is the Sunday

Politics.