02/03/2014 Sunday Politics East Midlands


Marie Ashby with the latest political news. Andrew Neil interviews shadow education secretary Tristram Hunt and minister of state for skills Matthew Hancock on apprenticeships.

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Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.


Fears that Ukraine could face invasion escalate this morning as


Russian forces take control of Crimea. President Obama and his


European allies tell President Putin to back off. It doesn't sound like


he's listening. Shadow Education Secretary Tristram


Hunt has started spelling out Labour's plans for schools. So


what's the verdict - full marks, or must try harder? He joins us for the


Sunday Interview. And all the big political parties


are desperate to broaden their appeal. We'll look at some unusual


In the East Midlands, ?4,000 to help you insulate your home ` we'll be


looking at the government's attempt to relaunch its Green Deal.


And the desperate search for more foster carers.


and people deal with benefit changes. And tightening household


finances. And with me, as always, three


journalists who'd make a clean sweep if they were handing out Oscars for


political punditry in LA tonight. But just like poor old Leonardo


DiCaprio they've never won so much as a Blue Peter badge! Yes, it's


Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. Instead of acceptance


speeches they'll be tweeting faster than the tears roll down Gwyneth


Paltrow's face. Yes, that's as luvvie as we get on this show.


Events have been moving quickly in Ukraine this weekend. The interim


government in Kiev has put the Ukrainian military on full combat


alert after Russia's parliament rubber-stamped the deployment of


Russian troops anywhere in Ukraine. Russian troops seem already to be in


control of the mainly Russian-speaking Crimea region,


where Russia has a massive naval base. President Obama told President


Putin that Russia has flouted international law by sending in


Russian troops but the Kremlin is taking no notice. This is now


turning into the worst stand-off between Russia and the West since


the conflict between Georgia and Russia in 2008, though nobody


expects any kind of military response from the West. Foreign


Secretary William Hague is on his way to Kiev this morning to show his


support for the new government, though how long it will survive is


another matter. We can speak to our correspondent David Stern, he's in


Kiev. As things look from Kiev, can we


take it they've lost Crimea, it is now in all essence under Russian


control? Yes, well for the moment, Crimea is under Russian control


Russian troops in unmarked uniforms have moved throughout the peninsula


taking up various positions, also at the Ismis which links Ukraine into


Crimea. They've surrounded Ukrainon troops there. Three units have been


captured according to a top officials. We can say at the moment


Russia controls the peninsula. It should also be said, also they have


the support of the ethnic Russian population. The ethnic Russians make


up the majority of the population. They are also not entirely in


control because there are other groups, namely the Tatar as and the


ethnic Ukrainian speakers who are at least at the moment tacitly


resisting. We'll see what they'll start to do in the coming days.


David, I'm putting up some pictures showing Russian troops digging in on


the border between Crimea and Ukraine. I get the sense that is


just for show. There is, I would assume, no possibility that the


Ukrainians could attempt to retake Crimea by military force? It seems


that the Ukrainians are weighing their options right now. Their


options are very limited. Any head-to-head conflict with Russia


would probably work against the Ukrainians. They seem to be taking


more of a long-term gain. They are waiting for the figs's first move.


They are trying not to create any excuse that the Russians can stage


an even larger incursion into Crimea or elsewhere, for that matter. They


also seem to be trying to get international support. It should be


said, this is a new Government. It has only been installed this week.


They are trying to gain their footing. This is a major crisis


They have to count on the loyalty of the army they might have some


resistance from solders from the eastern part of the country who are


Russian speaking. They probably could count on Ukrainian speakers


and people from the centre and west of the country as well as regular


Ukrainians. A lot of people are ready to fight to defend Ukrainian


Terre Tory. Where does the Kremlin go next? They have Crimea to all


intents and purposes. There's a weak Government in Kiev. Do they move to


the eastern side of Ukraine which is largely Russian speaking and there's


already been some unrest there? That's the big question, that's what


everybody's really asking now. Where does this go from here? We've had


some unrest in the eastern part of the country. There have been


demonstrations and clashes. More ominously, there have been noises


from the Kremlin they might actually move into eastern Ukraine. Putin in


his conversation with Barack Obama said they might protect their


interests there. It should be said, if they do expand, in fact, they've


also said they are dead against the new Government seeing it as


illegitimate and fascist. It does contain risks. They will have to


deal with international reactions. America said there will be a deep


reaction to this and it will affect Russia's relations with Ukraine and


the international community. They have to deal with the reaction in


Ukraine. This may unite Ukrainians behind this new interim Government.


Once Russia moves in, they will be seen as an invading force. It plays


on historical feelings of Russia being an imperial force.


Joining me is MP Mark Field who sits on the security Security and


Intelligence Committee in the House of Commons. What should the western


response be to these events? I can understand why William Hague is


going to Kiev tomorrow to stand side by side whizz whoever's in charge.


They need to CEOP sit numbers and also President Putin. The truth is


we are all co significant fatries to the Budapest Memorandum of almost 20


years ago which was designed to maintain the integrity of the


Ukraine and Crimea. There needs to be a discussion along those lines.


The difficulty is President Putin has watched events in recent months,


in relation to Syria, it is palpable President Obama's focus of attention


ask the other side of the Pacific rather than the Atlantic. The vote


in the House of Commons, I was very much against the idea of military


action or providing weapons to the free Syrian army. My worry is,


events proved this, the majority of the other options toed as sad are


rather worse. It is clear now we are in a constitutional mess in this


country. We cannot even contemplate military action without a


parliamentary vote that moves against quick reaction that is


required from the executive or, I suspect, there will be very little


appetite for any military action from the West over in Ukraine. We


are corn tours under the agreement of less than 20 years ago. We may be


but we've guaranteed an agreement which it is clear we haven't the


power to enforce. You wrote this morning, Britain is a diminished


voice. Clams Iley navigating the Syrian conflict we relick wished


decisions to the whims of parliamentary approval. That may or


may not be but the Kremlin's not watching how we voted on the Syrian


issue? In relation to Syria, it was where is the western resolve here.


The truth ask Putin's position is considerably less strong. In


diplomatic terms. He had a victory in Syria in relation to chemical


weapons and in relation to the West's relationship with Iran. Putin


is a vital inter locking figure In demographic and economic terms,


Russia's in very deep trouble. The oil price started to fall to any


degree, oil and gas price, given the importance of mineral wealth and


exports for the Russian economy Putin would be in a lot of trouble.


It requires an engagement from the EU and the EU are intending to look


at their internal economic problems and will be smarting from the


failure within a matter of hours of the deal they tried to broker only


nine days' ago. You say if Mr Putin decides to


increase the stakes and moves into the east, takes over the whole


place, our Government, you say, will find itself with another colossal


international headache. Some people watching this will be thinking,


what's it got to do with us? It s a long way away from Britain. We


haven't a dog in this fight? We have in this regard for the longer term


here. I think if there were to be some military action in Ukraine the


sense of Russia taking over, it could have a major impact on the


global economy in very quick order. You should not deny that. There will


be move to have sanctions against Russia. The escalation of that will


be difficult. The other fact is looking at our internal affairs and


reform, partners, the Baltic states, Finland, Poland, the Czech Republic,


they will be looking at a resurgent Russia now and think they'll need to


hold as tightly as possible to the EU institutions and the power of


Germany at the centre of that. This whole appetite for the reforms


politically and economically will be closed very much within a matter of


a short period of time. It has longer term implications. Mark


Field, thank you. We're joined now by BBC News night's


Diplomatic Editor Mark Urban. Is there any prospect of a western


military response? Clearly at the moment, it is nil. The boat has


sailed with the Crimean. It has been per performed by Russian forces It


is now a matter of coordinating a plate cal line. European foreign


ministers tomorrow. To say what will our future limits be? Where could we


possibly draw red lines? To try to think a couple of steps down this,


what happens if Russia interrupts energy supplies to EU member states


ornate owe countries? These are the important steps they have to think


about. It is quite clear we are in a different world here now. Also,


Ukraine is facing a urgent foreign exchange crisis. Within literally a


few weeks they could run out of money. All of these are rushing


towards decision makers very fast. There is an interim and I suggestion


unstable Government in Kiev. Crimea semi-to be under Russian control.


There are clashes between the reformers and Russian nationals in


the east of the country. What does Mr Putin do next? He has lots of


options, of course. He has this carte blanch carte blanch from his


Parliament to go in to the rest of Ukraine if he wants to. His military


deployment suggests the one bite at a time, just Crimea to start with.


See what response comes from the Ukrainian Government. Of course so


far, there hasn't been a coherent response. The really worrying thing


about recent months, not just recent days, are the indications that the


future of Ukraine as a unitary state is now in doubt. Look at it from the


other side of the equation. The President when faced with


demonstrations, many extremists he was unable to deal with that. Now we


have the other side, if you like, the Russian speakers, the other side


of the fight, Russian nationalists showing they can get away with


unilateral action more or less with impunity. The Ukrainian chiefs have


been sacked. I think there are considerable questions now as to


whether Ukraine is falling apart and, if that happens, we're into a


Yugoslav-type situation which will continue posing very serious


questions for the EU and NATO for months or years to come. So, Janan,


Ukraine is over? Where the west to concede to the Russian in Crimea, it


would perversely be a net loss for Russia. You'd assume the rest of


Ukraine would become an un unambiguously a member of the the


EU, maybe NATO. On top of that a Russian dream of Eurasion dream


they will look at Putin's behaviour and is a, no, thanks, we'll head


towards the EU. It is a short-term victory for Putin which backfires on


his broader goals in Well, many people said if he grabs Crimea, he


loses Ukraine, which is your point. We have seen violent demonstrations


in the big eastern cities in Ukraine yesterday. People taking control of


certain buildings. The risk is there of spreading beyond Crimea. I think


the lack of any unified or visible response from Ukrainian armed


forces... They allowed Russian troops to walk into the bases in


Crimea. They have supposedly gone on red alert but they have done


absolutely nothing. We don't see them deploying from barracks. There


are serious questions about whether they would just fall apart. Putin is


not going to let them split away. I would have thought he would like the


entire Ukraine to come into the Russian ambit. Barack Obama is


saying this will not stand. He has a 90 minute conversation with Vladimir


Putin and what is his response? I am suspending my cooperation in the


run-up to the Sochi Summit. What is the EU doing? Nothing. There is


nothing they can do and Putin knows there are a series of lines that he


is able to cross and get away with it. Why should Berlin, London,


Washington be surprised by the strength of Vladimir Putin's


reaction? It was never going to let Ukraine just fall into the arms of


the EU. That is the interesting point. And who does he listen to?


Paddy Ashdown was saying sent Angela Merkel because she is the only


person who can talk to him and I find that response worrying. We need


to speak with a united voice but nobody knows what we should be


saying. Military intervention is out for the West so we go to economic


sanctions. Doesn't Vladimir Putin just say, oh, you want sanctions? I


have turned off the gas tap. Yes, it is move and countermove, and it is


difficult to predict where it will end up. In all these meetings that


are being held, they do think a step or two ahead and try and set out


clear lines. Thank you for coming in this morning.


Labour has been struggling since 2010 to decide exactly how to take


education secretary Michael Gove, one of the boldest reformers of the


coalition and most divisive figures. Ed Miliband appointed TV historian


Tristram Hunt and many thought Labour had found the man to teach


Michael Gove a lesson. But how much do we really know about the party's


plans for England's schools? Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are a


devolved matter. Child has been back to school to find out. A politician


once told me, do you know why education secretaries changed


schools? Because they can. Michael Gove might dispute the motive but he


is changing schools, like this one. The changes he is ringing in our


encouraging them to be academies, free from local authorities to


control their own budgets, ushering in free schools, focusing on


toughening exams and making them the core of the curriculum with less


coursework, and offering heads more discretion on tougher discipline.


And he is in a hurry to put all this in place. But has that shut out any


chance for a Labour Government to change it all themselves and do they


really want to? Any questions? Visiting a different school, first


in line to get a crack at that would-be Labour's third shadow


education secretary since 2010, Tristram Hunt. In post, he has not


been taken about fine tuning previous direct opposition to free


schools and he has also suggested teachers in England would have to be


licensed under a Labour Government, allowing the worst to be sacked and


offering training and development to others and of course ending


coalition plans to allow unqualified teachers into classrooms. Full


policy detail is still unmarked work. Your opinion about evolution?


What is very clear is that Labour's education policy is still evolving.


We are learning that they have some clear water, but we also seem, from


the sting at the back, to get the feeling that there is not a great


deal of difference from them and the current Government on types of


schools and the way education should proceed. -- from listening at the


back. So what exactly is different about their policy? What Tristram


Hunt's job is to do is to be open and honest about the shared agenda


between us and the Tories. There are a lot of areas where there is clear


water between us and Tristram Hunt as to turn his back, shared agenda,


stop fighting it, and forge our agenda, which I think people will be


really interested in. The art of Government, of course, is to balance


competing pictures of policy, even inside your own party. It is fair to


say that if Labour reflects and draws its own visions of a shared


agenda, it might have to square that idea with teaching unions, who are


already unhappy with the pace and tone of change that the Government


had sketched out. What we sincerely hope is that if Labour were to form


the next Government, that they would look at a serious review of


accountability measures. That is really what ways on teachers every


single day. Actually they would look at restoring the possibility, for


example, of local councillors to be able to open schools. That seems


eminently sensible. If they are not going to move back from the free


schools and academies programme at the very least they need to say that


academy chains will be inspected because at the moment they are not.


Labour have balls in the air on education and are still throwing


around precise policy detail. There are areas that they could grab hold


of and seize possession. A focus on the rounding of the people,


developing character, the impact of digitalisation on the classroom


Also the role and handling of teachers in the system and the


interdependence of schools. That is all still to play for. Currently I


think the difference between the parties is that the coalition


policies, while we do not agree with all of them, are clear and explicit,


and Labour's policies are yet to be formulated in a way that everybody


can understand clearly. I don't think that Tristram Hunt or Miliband


will want to pick unnecessary fights before the election. I think we will


have quite a red, pinkish fuzziness around the whole area of policy but


after the election there will be grey steel from Tristram Hunt. But


if fuzzy policy before the election is the lesson plan, it does rather


risk interested voters being left in the dark.


Tristram Hunt joins me now for the Sunday interview.


Welcome. Thank you. Which of Michael Gove's school reforms would you


repeal? We are not interested in throwing a change for the sake of


it. When I go round schools, teachers have been through very


aggressive changes in the last three years, so when it comes to some of


the curriculum reforms we have seen, we are not interested in changing


those for the sake of it. Where we are interested in making change is


having a focus on technical and vocational education, making sure


that the forgotten 15% is properly addressed in our education system.


What we saw in your package was an interesting description of how we


have seen structural reforms in the names of schools. Academies, free


schools, all the rest of it. International evidence is clear that


it is the quality of leadership of the headteachers and the quality of


teaching in the classroom that transforms the prospects of young


people. Instead of tinkering around the names of schools, we focus on


teacher quality. Viewers will be shocked to note that this Government


approves of unqualified teachers in the classroom. We want to have fully


qualified, passionate, motivated teachers in the classroom. It sounds


like you might not repeal anything. You might build on it and you might


go in a different direction, with more emphasis on technological


education but no major repeal of the reforms of Michael Gove? I don't


think you want to waste energy on undoing reforms. In certain


situations they build on Labour Party policy. We introduced the


sponsored academy programmes and we began the Teach First programmes,


and we began the London challenge which transformed the educational


prospects of children in London We want to roll that out across the


country. You have said there will be no more free schools, which Michael


Gove introduced, but you will allow parents let academies, which just


means free schools by a different name. No, because they will be in


certain areas. We want to create new schools with parents. What we have


at the moment is a destructive and market-driven approach to


education. I was in Stroud on Thursday and plans for a big new


school, in an area with surplus places, threatened to destroy the


viability of local, rural schools. We want schools to work together in


a network of partnership and challenge, rather than this


destructive market-driven approach. You say that, but your version of


free schools, I think, would only be allowed where there is a shortage of


places. That means that where there is an excess of bad schools, parents


will have no choice. They still have to send their kids to bad schools.


And we have to transform bad schools and that was always the Labour way


in Government. At the moment we just have an insertion of new schools.


Schools currently underperforming are now underperforming even more.


Children only have one chance at education. What about their time in


school? Our focus is on the leadership of the headteacher and


having quality teachers in the classroom. So they cannot set up new


better schools and they have to go to the bad schools. Tony Blair said


it should be easier for parents to set up new schools where they are


dissatisfied with existing schools. You are not saying that. Even where


they are dissatisfied with existing schools, they cannot set up free


schools and you are reneging on that. We live in difficult economic


circumstances where we have got to focus public finances on the areas


of absolute need. We need 250,0 0 new school places. 150,000 in London


alone. We have to focus on building new schools and where we have to put


them. And secondly... Absolutely not. Focusing on those schools.


Making sure we turned them around, just as we did in Government. We


have had a remarkable degree of waste under the free school


programme. If you think of the free school in Derby, the Academy in


Bradford, and as we saw in the Telegraph on Friday, the free


schools in Suffolk, a great deal of waste of public money on


underperforming free schools. That is not the Labour way. We focus on


making sure that kids in schools at the moment get the best possible


education. Except that in your own backyard, in Stoke, only 34% of


secondary school pupils attend a good or outstanding school. 148 out


of 150 of the worst performing local authorities and it is


Labour-controlled. Still terrible schools and yet you say parents


should not have the freedom to start a better school. We have great


schools in Stoke-on-Trent as well. We face challenges, just as


Wolverhampton does and the Isle of Wight and Lincolnshire. Just like


large parts of the country. What is the solution to that? Making sure we


share excellence among the existing schools and making sure we have


quality leadership in schools. Those schools in Stoke-on-Trent are all


academies. It is not a question only of structure but of leadership. It


is also a question of going back to the responsibility of parents to


make sure their kids are school ready when they get to school. To


make sure they are reading to their children in the evening. We can t


put it all on teachers. Parents have responsibilities. I understand that


but you have told me Labour's policy would not be to set up new schools


which parents hope will be better. Parents continue to send their kids


to bad schools in areas like Stoke. Labour has had plenty of time to


sort out these schools in Stoke and they are still among the worst


performing in the country. You are condemning these parents to having


to send their kids to bad schools. Where we have seen the sett ing up


of Derby, Suffolk, we have seen that is not the simple solution. Is


simply setting up a new is not a successful model. What works is good


leadership. I was in Birmingham on Friday at a failing comprehensive is


not a successful model. What works is good leadership. I was in


Birmingham on Friday at a failing comprehensive school and now people


are queueing round the block to get into it. You can turn around schools


with the right leadership, passionate and motivated teachers,


and parents engaged with the learning outcome of their kids. In


the last few years of the Labour Government, only four kids from your


this Government would set up the new school. In Birmingham, they got in a


great headmaster and turned the school around and now people are


queueing round the block to get into it. You can turnaround schools with


the right leadership, passionate and motivated teachers, and parents


engaged with the learning outcome of their kids. In the last few years of


a Labour Government, only four kids from your area of and you had plenty


of chances to put this right but only four got to the two and you had


plenty of chances to put this right but only four got to the two leading


universities. Traditionally young people could leave school at 16 and


walking two jobs in the potteries, the steel industry, the


traditionally young people could leave school at 16 and walking two


jobs in the potteries, the steel industry, the but also to get an


apprenticeship at Jaguar Land Rover, JCB, Rolls-Royce. That is why


Ed Miliband's focus on the forgotten 15%, which we have just not seen


from this Government, focusing on technical and vocational pathways,


is fundamental to Your headmaster was guiles Slaughter. Was he a good


teacher? He He never taught me. Over 90% of teeners in the private


sector are qualified. They look for not simply teachers with qualified


teacher status. Teachers with MAs. Teachers who are improving them


cephalitis. Becoming better educators.


cephalitis. Becoming better teaching. You were taught by


unqualified teachers. Your parents paid over ?15,000 a year for you


being taught by unqualified teachers. Why did you make such a


big deal of it? Because we've seen right around the world those


education systems which focus on having the most qualified teachers


perform the best. It cannot be right that anyone can simply turn up, as


at the moment, have schools at veritising for unqualified teachers


teaching in the classroom. We want the best qualified teachers with the


deepest subject knowledge, for the passion in learning for their kids.


It is absurd we are having arguments about this. Simply having a paper


qualification doesn't make you a great teacher. Let me take you to


Brighton college. It is gone from the 147th to the 18 18th best


private school in the land. Fllt the headmaster says:


This is the top Sundaytimes school of the year. The school in derby


where this Government allowed unqualified teaching assist taints.


We had teachers who could barely speak English. That is because if


you have unqualified teachers you end up with a dangerous situation.


The problem with that school was not unqualified teachers. People were


running that school who were unfit to run a school. We have an issue


about discipline and behaviour management in some of our schools.


Some of the skills teachers gain through qualifications and learning


is how to manage classes and get the best out of kids at every stage. It


doesn't end with a qualified teacher status. That's just the beginning.


We want our teachers to have continue it will development. It is


not good enough to have your initial teacher trainingaged work through


your career for 30 years. You need continual learning. Learning how to


deal with digital technology. Refresh your subject knowledge. As


an historian I help teachers. You've taught as an unqualified teacher.


Not in charge of a subject group. I give the odd lecture. I'm-y to go to


as many schools as possible. I don't blame you. It is uplifting. Would


you sack all unqualified teachers? We'd want them all to gain teacher


status. What if they say no? If they are not interested in improving


skills and deepening their knowledge they should not be in the classroom.


If a free school or academy hired a teach thinking they are a great


teacher but unqualified, if they are then forced by you to fire them,


they will be in breach of the law. They are being urged by us to make


sure they have qualified teacher status. We've lots of unqualified


teachers as long as they are on the pathway to making sure they are


qualified. But if they say they don't want to do this, will you fire


them? It is not an unreasonable suggestion is that the teachers in


charge of our young people have qualifications to teach and inspire


our young people particularly when we face global competition from


Shanghai, Korea and so on. The head teacher of Brighton college finds


incredibly inspeechational teachers who don't' necessarily have a


teaching qualifications. It is a different skill to teach ten young


nice boys and girls in Brighton to teaches 20 or 30 quids with


challenging circumstances, special educational needs, different


ability. Being a teacher at Brighton college is an easy gig in comparison


to other schools. Where we want teachers to have a capacity to teach


properly. Do you think Tristram could ever lead the Labour Party? I


think Ed is a great leader, the reforms yesterday were a real sign


for his leadership. And the fact David Owen, the man with a


pre-history with our party is back with us. It is great. Even Gideon


had to change his name to George. Have you thought of switching to


Tommy or Tony? Maybe not Tony! Michael Foot was called Dingle Foot.


I love the Labour because it accepts everybody from me to Len McCluskey.


We are a big, broad happy family on our way to Government. Thank you


very much. You're watching The Sunday Politics.


We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us for Sunday


politics Scotland. In over 20 minutes I'll look at


In the East Midlands, could you turn someone's life around? The desperate


plea for more people to come forward as foster carers.


It does in a way surprise me that not so many people are wanting to


foster or adopt children. So yeah, I think more people should.


Just have a look at how much loft insulation you've got up here.


??WHIT E And ?4,000 cashback for insulating your home ` we'll be


looking at a new lease of life for a scheme designed to give us all lower


electricity bills. ?? I'm Marie Ashby, and my guests


this week, the Liberal Democrat Parliamentary candidate for


Ashfield, and on Nottinghamshire County Council Jason Zadrozny, and


Labour's MP for Nottingham South, Lilian Greenwood.


But first, it's been a big week in the battle over council cuts, with


two of our councils approving controversial budgets. There were


protests at County Hall in West Bridgford, as Nottinghamshire County


Council approved ?80 million of cuts. The new budget withdraws


funding to Nottingham Playhouse, homeless groups and youth services.


Leicester City Council is looking to cut ?40 million and 100 jobs, and


services are being hit there too. Jason, you are a County Council in


Nottinghamshire. Did you accept these cuts have to be made? I think


we agreed with it might of money that needed to be saved, but


certainly my group and almost every opposition councillor for their work


other ways to do it. Alternative budget showed that. So we could have


saved some of those vital front`line services without making such big


changes to people's lives. But how could they have not make those


changes? You need to actually put your shoulder to the wheel and be


more creative. The alternate budgets look at ways of outsourcing some of


the back office things, planning services, and saving money there.


And they are already doing things like that? Some of it, but that


cancelled times over `` terms of over half ?1 billion per year. A


Labour authority cutting grants to the homeless. Surely there must have


been some other way of doing this. These are cuts that absolutely


nobody would want, and I know lots of Labour councillors are struggling


with this, but the Government has cut the amount of money available by


40% in this Parliament and made really unfair cuts. The councils


with the most deprivation have been cut the most. In Nottinghamshire


County they have lost ?63 per person compared with some of the least


deprived areas like summary and Nottinghamshire which have lost


about half that amount. The blame lies very squarely with the Lib Dems


and Tories and Government. Of course Lilian would say that. Those other


councils we talk about had much less to take away from in the first


place. The reason Nottinghamshire had a bigger chunk taken away was


that it is so reliant on grants. For year after year they have asked for


grants instead of diversifying their ink constraint. We have different ``


good services we could have charged for.


Well, next, there's been a desperate plea for more people to come forward


as foster carers, to help some of the most vulnerable children in


society. Councils say the number of young people being put into care has


rocketed in the wake of child abuse scandals. Our political editor John


Hess has been meeting foster carers and people whose lives have been


turned around by being placed with a new family.


and people whose lives have been Saying thanks, 19`year`old Naomi


Maher makes a Chinese Lockhart for a foster mother. She is back home in


to ensure after the opportunity of a lifetime food to visit western


China. `` love heart. She is also back home to her foster parents.


When I first came into care I went to maybe five or six different


placements in quite a short period of time, which I guess for anybody


could be quite daunting and quite confusing. So I think when I finally


came here it was much better for my emotional well`being to be in a


stable family. Eleanor Morrison has been Naomi's


foster mother for 12 years. I always wanted a big family. I had three


children, and so we decided that we could offer something else to some


other children. Naomi's step is university, but not every child in


care finds a ready`made foster home. In Nottinghamshire there is a real


shortage. For councils like Nottinghamshire


facing severe budget pressures, this is why it needs to find war foster


parents, because the cost of the Council of putting a child in


council residential care is almost 2,100 pounds per week impaired to


?447 per week, the cost to the Council of putting a child in a


foster home. It was the repercussions of the Baby


Peter child cruelty case in north London that forced a national of a


national overhaul in council all asleep towards child protection.


More children are now in care. For Kate Foale, the politician in


charge of children's care services, but finds `` means finding more


foster parents. There are 400 more children in care than there were


four or five years ago. We must the acute budget pressures as well on


residential care. `` that must be. Yes, the absolute best place for


children is in a loving, caring foster home or adoptive home. Not


only is it cheaper, it is much better for them.


If only finding foster parents was as easy as picking flowers. The


County Council needs 25 extra carers each year. Lisa Creasey is one of


them. She and her husband started fostering four years ago. You meet


with somebody from the Social Services, you talk about the reasons


why you would like to foster, and you spend quite a few weeks, weekly


visits, having a social work are coming to see you running through


everything, your background, your family's needs, it is quite a


lengthy process, and sometimes it can feel quite personal. But as a


potential foster carer you want to feel that you are safe to be looking


at these children. This is the Chinese word for love.


Naomi is starting out her life as a young adult, thanks to foster


parents who gave her a warm, loving home when she needed it most. It


surprises me that not so many people are wanting to foster or adopt


children. So yes, I think more people should.


Well, we're joined from our London studio now by Dr Lucy Peake from the


Fostering Network ` Lucy, hi, we heard in John's report that there's


been this big rise in young people being taken into care. Are


politicians doing enough? Avec in general politicians


understand the needs of children who are coming into care and the need to


recruit more foster care was to look after them. But the financial


packages are in place `` must be in place, to support those foster


carers who are providing the care to those vulnerable children. So it is


about finances to ensure that we recruit your `` right people, but


also support those foster carers once they are doing the job. It


makes sense to invest in this wisely, because it is so much


cheaper for someone to go into foster care than to go into a home.


I was a foster carer for three or four years. I always felt the County


Council did not invest enough to make people feel like it was


something they could do, training and support, and if they can save


some money as well they can reinvest that in exactly those things so


people can feel confident about offering some support and love in


terms of a family for somebody who needs it. And we do more, though Tom


when we have been talking about cuts in budgets? Is back can we do more?


I think that is one of the challenges that local authorities


are facing, but it is also about telling people that they could beat


foster carers. It is open to anyone over 21, whether they are unemployed


or employed. `` whether they could be foster carers. It is about


whether you can offer a loving home to a child but has support needs. It


is the `` import that people know there is support available, both


financial and training and help. If you are taking on a child from a


difficult ground, you want to be wanted you do that. So is there


enough money going into this? The Government has said there is no


hierarchy of care, but we can see that more Government funding goes


into adoption than fostering. So we are keen to say, let us put the


money to support fostering as well. There is a huge disparity as well on


the amount spent on adoption, I think it is ?50 million, and I think


three quarters of a million on fostering. That is at national


level. Local authorities are working really hard to continue to recruit


foster carers. The challenge as you said is that the are more children


coming into care, and also a churn within the foster carer population,


so some are retiring and local authorities therefore need to meet


the new demand, but also replace those foster carers who are leaving.


What was your experience like, Jason? It was quite positive. When


you get elected to County Council you cannot be a foster carer any


longer. I always felt there was a little bit too much pressure, I had


a young boy brought to me, emergency respite, he was there two years. So


there was this need that they did not prepare people for properly. It


is an incredibly rewarding process. But I think the County Council 's


need to do much more to say, if this is for you we will support you


better. One of the things Nottinghamshire County Council told


us is that one of the big problems they face is that many people are


interested in fostering, but more so in younger children, under four


years old for example. But they have so many teenagers who need a home.


That is similar across the country. We have a real need to recruit


foster carers to look after sibling groups, teenagers and children with


disabilities. So it is really important we talk about the


different types of foster care are available, and we try and reach out


to as many people as possible and encourage them to come forward. How


can we make it easier, because obviously it is not an easy thing to


do obviously to be a foster parent, there are so many hoops and hurdles


to go through. We have to give people the confidence that they can


be foster carers, that it is about having energy, being able to listen


and empathise, and the fact that you will be able to get support in


dealing with children with complex needs or learning disabilities.


Everybody's teenagers can be a challenge anyway, so I think it is


partly about telling people they can be foster carers, but to come back


to the other point we were talking about budgets, we need county


councils, people like Jason, to be standing up for Nottinghamshire and


saying we need fair funding in our county, because if we are having to


deal with cuts you have got to make those numbers add up. So why should


people do it, why should somebody decide to become a foster parent?


Foster carers come forward because they want to make a difference to


children's lives. The about whether you want to make a difference to a


child's lives, if so that other foster carers.


`` if so talk to other foster carers.


Now, from giving children a warm welcome to keeping warm and cutting


our fuel bills. The Government is planning a relaunch of its Green


Deal, a scheme designed to persuade more people to take up energy`saving


measures. It's been criticised for being too complicated in the past


and take`up's been rather slow, but changes to be unveiled next month


should make it easier for people to get cash help to insulate their


homes and cut down on their electricity bills. Des Coleman's


been finding out what it all means. I am at a typical house in


Leicester. Mike is doing a Green Deal assessment. What is that? Are


basically carrying out energy performance certificate, the


prerequisite to a Green Deal plan. This property is a solid wall


construction, so it is of real revelling `` relevance to a Green


Deal. You are from the company that


employs Mike. He is giving the property and energy rating, which


will typically be a two grams, they being the highest and G being the


worst. A solid walled house could save customers up to ?750,000 per


year on their fuel bills. How is this pay for? It is paid for with a


Green Deal finance loan. How that works is if they are typically `` if


their typical electron were 100 pounds per month, it might reduce


them `` the bill to around ?60 per month, but the customer would still


have to repay the Green Deal load which may be ?20 per month. So


together with a Green Deal loan and interest, they may be repaying ?80


per month but typically they have saved ?20 per month. What measures


are we talking? That a lot of measures available, 45 in total, but


the main ones are solid wall insulation, cavity insulation, a new


condensing boiler, some of the renewable measures like air source


heat pumps. The uptake has not been great. No, it has been slow to begin


with, but the Government has put new incentives in place, so for a solid


walled house such as this one you could get up to ?4000 cashback once


the energy efficiency measures have been installed. Is that actually


cashback or part of the loan? It is cashback. Once the energy efficiency


measure has been installed, the customer will have a voucher they


can redeem, and it will actually be cash they are free to spend in any


way they choose. Well, Mike has done his assessment


and it seems like this House, for an expenditure of ?9,000 on solid wall


insulation and loft insulation, can save around 850 pounds per year and


get ?400,000 `` ?4000 cashback. Is this a good enough incentive to get


thousands of homes taking it up? This is something you have taken a


keen interest in. Were these changes make a difference? We all agreed


that energy efficiency is important to bringing down bills. The


Government scheme is just simply too complex and not sufficiently


affordable. It is about loans at interest rates of six. People will


spend more on interest rates than they will on the measures.


Unfortunately so far, there has only been about 1,200 people had


assessment, and 750 taking it up. It has been almost 150,000 assessments


done, 1,700 and take it up and 80% of the 150,000 and have either had


further work done, are in the process `` progress of it or are


considering it. I spoke to the Department of energy and climate


change today and those were the figures they presented. They are


really positive about it. It has been going a year, this is a


programme that will work for decades. We will make people's homes


warmer and bring their bills down. Labour have no other plans to change


it, they do not like it, but it is an important issue and we need to


bring it right. `` make it right. Jason, your figures do not match up


with the figures are and the BBC have had. Lilian has been so badly


taken up, but people are worried what will happen if they have two


sell the houses in the future. `` Green Deal has been so badly taken


up. Our scheme would have lower`cost loans for homes and small


businesses, and we will be publishing a green paper on this


later this year. We have already taken very strong steps to set out


what we would do to help people faced with the high costs of energy.


You can shake your head, but you look at Nottingham city weather has


been huge amounts of work done in our city to tackle energy efficiency


for is stop `` where there has been. I have been working on the need for


tackling hard to treat properties... But there is a report


due to come out from a Nottingham sure `` Nottingham firm that's ``


saying that cutting VAT on board as an insulation would be more


effective. We tried that in the past. I work for B where they


tried VAT holidays on insulation, and they work to a certain level.


These things really do work. The Government are investing half ?1


billion to subsidise this work to get done more. Maybe it just seems


more `` too complicated for people. You have had a scheme in your


constituency when the project and select thousands of homes in Clifton


hit problems. British Gas announced they were pulling out because of the


changes to the way the Government finance schemes like this. What is


the latest in Clifton? When the Government announced the changes,


British Gas pulled out. The really good news is that the contracts ``


the contractors have been working at full pace to get done the work for


those people who had already signed up in Clifton North, so we hope


people who have already paid their money will get their insulation


done, and when people have it done they really appreciate the


difference it takes to their bills and have warned their homes fuels.


`` their homes feel. There are 3,000 other solid wall on the Clifton


estate, and others across the city, the trouble is that eco`has


changed, it now cannot be used alongside Green Deal. It costs


around maybe 8,000 to ?10,000 to insulate homes, and the sort of


people who were in fuel poverty cannot afford these loans. So it is


not just Clifton, Derby tell us they have had a similar plan for 7,000


homes put on hold cause of similar problems. When you are starting


something this massive, and let's face it only took it seriously, only


the Lib Dems were championing green courses, but this sort of thing if


got right brings people's Bilston, it creates tonnes of jobs and


apprenticeships. `` it brings people's bills down. People who were


about to change stuck `` start apprenticeships, they are now on


hold. We'll have to leave it there. Let's


have a look at some of the other stories happening in the East


Midlands, in our 60`second round`up. Derby has been named as one of the


top 25 places in Europe to invest in by an influential think`tank. The


report by fDi Intelligence used measures like economic potential,


the ability of its workforce and quality of life.


Tory MP Mark Spencer's been taking the bus and the tram to find out


what it's like using public transport in his Sherwood


constituency. He travelled across his patch, occasionally waiting at


the wrong bus stop. We can't even read the timetable


correctly so we were stood at the bus stop for too long, freezing


cold... He took almost seven hours ` and the


comments, by the way, were added by his office.


I think it's cost us about ?22 each to do that journey ` but I have to


say the whole thing was quite impressive.


And finally, Nottingham City Council's Deputy Leader helped to


spare the blushes of our political editor John Hess. Graham Chapman


lent a helping hand when John's notes blew away ` a rare case of


cooperation between press and politicians.


Cue the Benny Hill music really there, isn't it? Judging by Mark


Spencer's experience though on the trams and the buses, more


politicians should be getting out there on public transport, Lilian.


Well, I would hope that politicians use public transport themselves


anyway. Obviously being an MP for Nottingham that's very easy to do,


because we've got such an excellent public transport network.


You would say that. How often do you get on the bus, Jason? I don't do it


very often. I use the train a fair bit... You don't get on a bus? I


don't, I know. And Mark's probably put me off, I was expecting Olive


and Blakey to run out there at any moment! I don't think that was his


plan, to put you off, I think it was to try and encourage more people to


do it, but there you go. Thanks very much indeed, both of


you. Next week we've a special report from Afghanistan and the East


Midlands troops there ` junior defence minister and Broxtowe MP


Anna Soubry joins us in the studio ` and later in the month we're on the


road again, with a Europe special from Brussels. We'll be speaking to


all of the region's Euro MPs, so if you've got a question for them do


let us know. You can contact us by looking for BBC Sunday Politics East


Midlands on Facebook, or you can go to our


Government to change it. Thank you both for being here. Andrew, back to


you. This week grant Shap said he wanted


to rebrand the Tories as the workers' party to show it can reach


out to blue-collar workers. One Conservative Party MP said they


should scrap what he said was their boring old logo. We asked him and


two other independent MPs how they'd freshen up their logos.


Aspiration's always been our core value. About helping people get on


with life. Giving people ladders of opportunity. That's why our symbol


must reflect our values of aspiration and why I'm calling for


our symbol to be changed from a tree to a ladder which symbolises social


mobility and stands up for everything conservatism represents.


I like an he will fanned, an animal that never forgets. We're the only


party which seems to remember what life was like before the NHS and


minimum wage and the global financial crash was caused by too


little regulation not too much. We have a leader who can spot the


elephant in the room, the lack of women on the Tory frontbench. The


republicans in America have had the same idea. Theirs is a suspicious


blue. Our would be deepest red. We love our Liberal Democrat bird. Mrs


Thatcher called it the dead parrot when we launched it. We won the


Eastbourne by-election off the Tories very soon aftered with.


Perhaps it feels like we're in a coalition cage but we're escaping


that soon. Why does it fly to the right? Most Liberal Democrats would


want it to fly to the left. I hope it will soon.


Interesting there. Let's stick with the Robert Hall pin one. He was


being serious. The others were fun. It is interesting that talking about


appealing to the blue collared vote, the upper working class, lower


middle class, curiously now neither Mr Cameron nor Mr Miliband has great


cut through with these people. But in wanting to be the Workers Party,


how do you square that with choosing five old Etonians to draw up four


next manifesto. Labour said one of the things was cutting inheritance


tax, after all their priorities they went to privilege rather than earned


income. Rebranding is not enough. The one question the modernisers


never asked themselves when they took party ten years ago is the


thing we know as the Conservative Party, salvageable as a brand? I'm


beginning to think it isn't. If you look at all public opinion research,


there are lots of people in this contrary with Conservative views.


They won't vote Tory or contemplate the possibility of voting Tory. Can


we get over the electoral problems by relaunching as a different


pro-business, pro-worker party. That means new name, new logo. It will


mean new people as well. If you say you're on the sides of what Thatcher


called the strivers, the people themselves want to see you have


strivers in the people who run your party so you know what we've been


through, the struggles we've had. How many of the six drawing up the


manifesto have had ever a mortgage. The one who's not an old Etonian


went to St Paul's. He's a day schoolboy! It is interesting and it


was funny you mentioned an elephant. Don't think of an elephant as the


title of that book. Calling it the Workers Party draws attention to the


Tories biggest electoral weakness. The idea they are a class apart Out


of touch. I think it is interesting, they have identified their elections


are won or lost by this particular demo graphic of the C 1, and C .


Mrs Thatcher got them by the shed load, Tony Blair got them. His


failure in 2010 is the reason David Cameron didn't win an overall


majority. I'm disappointed with the ladder. You should have a hammer or


sickle! The Conservatives have a terrible brand problem. You heard


them explaining why they did badly in the Wythenshawe by-election,


saying there's quite a large council estate there In 1961, I think the


Conservatives won a by-election back then, they were getting through to


those sort of voters. There is not a single Conservative councillor in


Manchester. They have this terrible problem. You're right for them to


pick up on the five Etonians writing their manifesto. David Cameron sir


rounding himself with his own. He doesn't have to do that. I seas


things like isn't Robert Halpen great. He decides and has his own.


He has some more slightly common people from St Paul's! One of the


ways the Conservatives hoped to broaden their appeal is the tougher


line on immigration. We learned net immigration is rising substantially.


Back up over 200,000. Nigel Farage of UKIP wrapped up the rhetoric In


scores of our cities and market towns, this country, in a short


space of time, has become N'Zonzi rkable whether it is --


unrecognisable. Whether it is the impact on local schools and


hospitals. In many parts of England you don't hear English spoken, this


is not the kind of the community we want to leave to our children and


grandchildren. Helen, maybe people, I assume, will love the sentiments.


Others will say, this is getting... It is going down a dangerous road.


Nigel Farage's wife is German and he shares a flat with Godfully Bloom,


nobody knows what he's saying half of the time. You can handle the


letters from Yorkshire. Alex Salmond does not make his case on Scotland


for the Scottish. Let's put aside whether the policy's right or wrong.


How bad, by the Tories own lights, is the fact the net figure for


immigration went up 60,000? It looks really bad. If I was a Tory


strategist, I'd be philosophical about it. Immigration, even if they


were meeting the target, I don't think the public would believe it.


It is like crime a few years ago, the crime rates had been declining


for the best part of 20 years but the fear of crime remains high.


There's such a degree of cynicism that regardless of your


administrative record in Government, the public will remain hostile to


you. This is where Nigel Farage can be potent. He said it is not about


numbers. It is about community. It is about people seeing their


communities change. And in the Sunday Telegraph, it was said this


isn't a dog whistle, a it is a meaty bone for a bull terrier. The problem


for the Government on these figures is we know why the net migration


figures are not looking good. They got down the non-EU figures but the


EU figures are going up. From Italy and Spain as their economies tanked,


people came here. If he hadn't made such a big deal of the numbers, the


Tories, I mean, you could present this as a huge success story. If you


believe immigration was good for the country. You would say it doesn t


matter what Labour says, the best and the brightest young people from


all over Europe are voting with their feet to come to Britain. But


you never hear that case being made and certainly not by Labour. They


acknowledge although immigration is best in the abstract for the


economy, people don't feel it in their daily lives. There's a huge


vacuum for the case where immigration should be in our public


life. I remember a time when the economy was in such decline there


was a rush to the door in the sixties and seventies. Now we are


claiming our economy's doing better than any of the other major


economies bar Germany, people want to join in our success. London was a


declining city until the mid-eighties. Theresa May cannot be


honest. She was proposing a cap on immigration. Not going to happen.


Today she is saying maybe people from poorer member states cannot


come in until their economies grow. That's future accession states.


That's Turkey in ten years' time It is causing divisions with the


coalition. She's bashing Vince Cable. You often see Liberal


Democrats bashing the Tories. You don't often see a Tory minister bash


Vince Cable. She does on the immigration figures. He thought they


were good news. Last week, Vince responded to the news by saying it


was a policy he was happy for the gift to flunk. The problem was going


for a cap. There are six moving parts. UK citizens leaving, coming


back. EU citizens leaving and coming back and then third party nationals.


And students coming to study. Of course. You only have control over


the EU citizens. Have you to clamp down on ace strayian, Chinese or


American graduates. They should have gone for the Australian points


system. I don't have a pure cap on numbers just background etc. Tim


Farran said in the European election either vogue Liberal Democrat or


UKIP. He turned that to his advantage. It is hopeful but he s


come up with a way to spin this Labour has his special conference.


Was it or was it not an event? Not sure it was the biggest moment in


the party since 1918. But things fell apart in the special conference


in 1981. 2004 got another special conference. Who's on board? David


Owen who founded the gang of four. He's not joined but he's given them


money. He's not going to sit with them in the Lord's. He's given


money. They lost the gang of four. Back comes David Owen. Not historic?


Why would he want it to be more significant than it was. There's a


tendency to see him taking the fight to his party. Why would he want


that? The fact it has not pleased Grant Shapps is not a test to see


whether this has worked. It has been described as an historic moment and


incremental of what John did. The trade union block voters disappeared


a long time ago. They still have 50% of the vote. But 2,000 of union


members voting for this guy has gone. It is a reform from 20 years


ago. Welcome but not historic. Ed Miliband's stored up trouble. Len


McCluskey wants a million new homes and answered to the benefit caps is


not reconcilable with the deficit reduction strategy. In five years'


time if there is a Labour Government it becomes very difficult. We should


keep an eye on it? Always. Labour Party process is never ending.


Unlike this programme. That's all from us today. Continuing reports of


events in the Ukraine on the BBC News Channel. There's no Daily


Politics tomorrow because of cover Arg of the Nelson Mandela memorial


service at Westminster Abbey on BBC Two live. We'll be back on the Daily


Politics on Tuesday at midday. We'll be back here next week with the Work


and Pensions Secretary, Ian Smith. If it is Sunday, it is the Sunday




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