02/03/2014 Sunday Politics East Midlands


02/03/2014

Marie Ashby with the latest political news. Andrew Neil interviews shadow education secretary Tristram Hunt and minister of state for skills Matthew Hancock on apprenticeships.


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Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.

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Fears that Ukraine could face invasion escalate this morning as

:00:41.:00:43.

Russian forces take control of Crimea. President Obama and his

:00:44.:00:47.

European allies tell President Putin to back off. It doesn't sound like

:00:48.:00:52.

he's listening. Shadow Education Secretary Tristram

:00:53.:00:54.

Hunt has started spelling out Labour's plans for schools. So

:00:55.:00:59.

what's the verdict - full marks, or must try harder? He joins us for the

:01:00.:01:05.

Sunday Interview. And all the big political parties

:01:06.:01:08.

are desperate to broaden their appeal. We'll look at some unusual

:01:09.:01:12.

In the East Midlands, ?4,000 to help you insulate your home ` we'll be

:01:13.:01:17.

looking at the government's attempt to relaunch its Green Deal.

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And the desperate search for more foster carers.

:01:21.:01:24.

and people deal with benefit changes. And tightening household

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finances. And with me, as always, three

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journalists who'd make a clean sweep if they were handing out Oscars for

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political punditry in LA tonight. But just like poor old Leonardo

:01:38.:01:40.

DiCaprio they've never won so much as a Blue Peter badge! Yes, it's

:01:41.:01:46.

Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. Instead of acceptance

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speeches they'll be tweeting faster than the tears roll down Gwyneth

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Paltrow's face. Yes, that's as luvvie as we get on this show.

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Events have been moving quickly in Ukraine this weekend. The interim

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government in Kiev has put the Ukrainian military on full combat

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alert after Russia's parliament rubber-stamped the deployment of

:02:05.:02:09.

Russian troops anywhere in Ukraine. Russian troops seem already to be in

:02:10.:02:12.

control of the mainly Russian-speaking Crimea region,

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where Russia has a massive naval base. President Obama told President

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Putin that Russia has flouted international law by sending in

:02:19.:02:21.

Russian troops but the Kremlin is taking no notice. This is now

:02:22.:02:28.

turning into the worst stand-off between Russia and the West since

:02:29.:02:30.

the conflict between Georgia and Russia in 2008, though nobody

:02:31.:02:33.

expects any kind of military response from the West. Foreign

:02:34.:02:40.

Secretary William Hague is on his way to Kiev this morning to show his

:02:41.:02:43.

support for the new government, though how long it will survive is

:02:44.:02:47.

another matter. We can speak to our correspondent David Stern, he's in

:02:48.:02:54.

Kiev. As things look from Kiev, can we

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take it they've lost Crimea, it is now in all essence under Russian

:03:00.:03:08.

control? Yes, well for the moment, Crimea is under Russian control

:03:09.:03:12.

Russian troops in unmarked uniforms have moved throughout the peninsula

:03:13.:03:19.

taking up various positions, also at the Ismis which links Ukraine into

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Crimea. They've surrounded Ukrainon troops there. Three units have been

:03:27.:03:31.

captured according to a top officials. We can say at the moment

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Russia controls the peninsula. It should also be said, also they have

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the support of the ethnic Russian population. The ethnic Russians make

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up the majority of the population. They are also not entirely in

:03:45.:03:50.

control because there are other groups, namely the Tatar as and the

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ethnic Ukrainian speakers who are at least at the moment tacitly

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resisting. We'll see what they'll start to do in the coming days.

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David, I'm putting up some pictures showing Russian troops digging in on

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the border between Crimea and Ukraine. I get the sense that is

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just for show. There is, I would assume, no possibility that the

:04:19.:04:25.

Ukrainians could attempt to retake Crimea by military force? It seems

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that the Ukrainians are weighing their options right now. Their

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options are very limited. Any head-to-head conflict with Russia

:04:37.:04:40.

would probably work against the Ukrainians. They seem to be taking

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more of a long-term gain. They are waiting for the figs's first move.

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They are trying not to create any excuse that the Russians can stage

:04:50.:04:55.

an even larger incursion into Crimea or elsewhere, for that matter. They

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also seem to be trying to get international support. It should be

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said, this is a new Government. It has only been installed this week.

:05:05.:05:07.

They are trying to gain their footing. This is a major crisis

:05:08.:05:12.

They have to count on the loyalty of the army they might have some

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resistance from solders from the eastern part of the country who are

:05:18.:05:20.

Russian speaking. They probably could count on Ukrainian speakers

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and people from the centre and west of the country as well as regular

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Ukrainians. A lot of people are ready to fight to defend Ukrainian

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Terre Tory. Where does the Kremlin go next? They have Crimea to all

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intents and purposes. There's a weak Government in Kiev. Do they move to

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the eastern side of Ukraine which is largely Russian speaking and there's

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already been some unrest there? That's the big question, that's what

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everybody's really asking now. Where does this go from here? We've had

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some unrest in the eastern part of the country. There have been

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demonstrations and clashes. More ominously, there have been noises

:06:05.:06:09.

from the Kremlin they might actually move into eastern Ukraine. Putin in

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his conversation with Barack Obama said they might protect their

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interests there. It should be said, if they do expand, in fact, they've

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also said they are dead against the new Government seeing it as

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illegitimate and fascist. It does contain risks. They will have to

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deal with international reactions. America said there will be a deep

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reaction to this and it will affect Russia's relations with Ukraine and

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the international community. They have to deal with the reaction in

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Ukraine. This may unite Ukrainians behind this new interim Government.

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Once Russia moves in, they will be seen as an invading force. It plays

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on historical feelings of Russia being an imperial force.

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Joining me is MP Mark Field who sits on the security Security and

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Intelligence Committee in the House of Commons. What should the western

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response be to these events? I can understand why William Hague is

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going to Kiev tomorrow to stand side by side whizz whoever's in charge.

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They need to CEOP sit numbers and also President Putin. The truth is

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we are all co significant fatries to the Budapest Memorandum of almost 20

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years ago which was designed to maintain the integrity of the

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Ukraine and Crimea. There needs to be a discussion along those lines.

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The difficulty is President Putin has watched events in recent months,

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in relation to Syria, it is palpable President Obama's focus of attention

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ask the other side of the Pacific rather than the Atlantic. The vote

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in the House of Commons, I was very much against the idea of military

:08:15.:08:19.

action or providing weapons to the free Syrian army. My worry is,

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events proved this, the majority of the other options toed as sad are

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rather worse. It is clear now we are in a constitutional mess in this

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country. We cannot even contemplate military action without a

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parliamentary vote that moves against quick reaction that is

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required from the executive or, I suspect, there will be very little

:08:45.:08:48.

appetite for any military action from the West over in Ukraine. We

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are corn tours under the agreement of less than 20 years ago. We may be

:08:56.:09:00.

but we've guaranteed an agreement which it is clear we haven't the

:09:01.:09:04.

power to enforce. You wrote this morning, Britain is a diminished

:09:05.:09:09.

voice. Clams Iley navigating the Syrian conflict we relick wished

:09:10.:09:14.

decisions to the whims of parliamentary approval. That may or

:09:15.:09:20.

may not be but the Kremlin's not watching how we voted on the Syrian

:09:21.:09:28.

issue? In relation to Syria, it was where is the western resolve here.

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The truth ask Putin's position is considerably less strong. In

:09:34.:09:37.

diplomatic terms. He had a victory in Syria in relation to chemical

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weapons and in relation to the West's relationship with Iran. Putin

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is a vital inter locking figure In demographic and economic terms,

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Russia's in very deep trouble. The oil price started to fall to any

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degree, oil and gas price, given the importance of mineral wealth and

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exports for the Russian economy Putin would be in a lot of trouble.

:10:06.:10:12.

It requires an engagement from the EU and the EU are intending to look

:10:13.:10:17.

at their internal economic problems and will be smarting from the

:10:18.:10:21.

failure within a matter of hours of the deal they tried to broker only

:10:22.:10:25.

nine days' ago. You say if Mr Putin decides to

:10:26.:10:30.

increase the stakes and moves into the east, takes over the whole

:10:31.:10:34.

place, our Government, you say, will find itself with another colossal

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international headache. Some people watching this will be thinking,

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what's it got to do with us? It s a long way away from Britain. We

:10:45.:10:49.

haven't a dog in this fight? We have in this regard for the longer term

:10:50.:10:55.

here. I think if there were to be some military action in Ukraine the

:10:56.:10:59.

sense of Russia taking over, it could have a major impact on the

:11:00.:11:03.

global economy in very quick order. You should not deny that. There will

:11:04.:11:08.

be move to have sanctions against Russia. The escalation of that will

:11:09.:11:13.

be difficult. The other fact is looking at our internal affairs and

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reform, partners, the Baltic states, Finland, Poland, the Czech Republic,

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they will be looking at a resurgent Russia now and think they'll need to

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hold as tightly as possible to the EU institutions and the power of

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Germany at the centre of that. This whole appetite for the reforms

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politically and economically will be closed very much within a matter of

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a short period of time. It has longer term implications. Mark

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Field, thank you. We're joined now by BBC News night's

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Diplomatic Editor Mark Urban. Is there any prospect of a western

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military response? Clearly at the moment, it is nil. The boat has

:12:09.:12:17.

sailed with the Crimean. It has been per performed by Russian forces It

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is now a matter of coordinating a plate cal line. European foreign

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ministers tomorrow. To say what will our future limits be? Where could we

:12:28.:12:32.

possibly draw red lines? To try to think a couple of steps down this,

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what happens if Russia interrupts energy supplies to EU member states

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ornate owe countries? These are the important steps they have to think

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about. It is quite clear we are in a different world here now. Also,

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Ukraine is facing a urgent foreign exchange crisis. Within literally a

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few weeks they could run out of money. All of these are rushing

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towards decision makers very fast. There is an interim and I suggestion

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unstable Government in Kiev. Crimea semi-to be under Russian control.

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There are clashes between the reformers and Russian nationals in

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the east of the country. What does Mr Putin do next? He has lots of

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options, of course. He has this carte blanch carte blanch from his

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Parliament to go in to the rest of Ukraine if he wants to. His military

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deployment suggests the one bite at a time, just Crimea to start with.

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See what response comes from the Ukrainian Government. Of course so

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far, there hasn't been a coherent response. The really worrying thing

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about recent months, not just recent days, are the indications that the

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future of Ukraine as a unitary state is now in doubt. Look at it from the

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other side of the equation. The President when faced with

:13:57.:14:01.

demonstrations, many extremists he was unable to deal with that. Now we

:14:02.:14:06.

have the other side, if you like, the Russian speakers, the other side

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of the fight, Russian nationalists showing they can get away with

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unilateral action more or less with impunity. The Ukrainian chiefs have

:14:17.:14:24.

been sacked. I think there are considerable questions now as to

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whether Ukraine is falling apart and, if that happens, we're into a

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Yugoslav-type situation which will continue posing very serious

:14:35.:14:39.

questions for the EU and NATO for months or years to come. So, Janan,

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Ukraine is over? Where the west to concede to the Russian in Crimea, it

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would perversely be a net loss for Russia. You'd assume the rest of

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Ukraine would become an un unambiguously a member of the the

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EU, maybe NATO. On top of that a Russian dream of Eurasion dream

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they will look at Putin's behaviour and is a, no, thanks, we'll head

:15:14.:15:18.

towards the EU. It is a short-term victory for Putin which backfires on

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his broader goals in Well, many people said if he grabs Crimea, he

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loses Ukraine, which is your point. We have seen violent demonstrations

:15:40.:15:43.

in the big eastern cities in Ukraine yesterday. People taking control of

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certain buildings. The risk is there of spreading beyond Crimea. I think

:15:49.:15:53.

the lack of any unified or visible response from Ukrainian armed

:15:54.:15:56.

forces... They allowed Russian troops to walk into the bases in

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Crimea. They have supposedly gone on red alert but they have done

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absolutely nothing. We don't see them deploying from barracks. There

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are serious questions about whether they would just fall apart. Putin is

:16:09.:16:16.

not going to let them split away. I would have thought he would like the

:16:17.:16:20.

entire Ukraine to come into the Russian ambit. Barack Obama is

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saying this will not stand. He has a 90 minute conversation with Vladimir

:16:27.:16:31.

Putin and what is his response? I am suspending my cooperation in the

:16:32.:16:35.

run-up to the Sochi Summit. What is the EU doing? Nothing. There is

:16:36.:16:42.

nothing they can do and Putin knows there are a series of lines that he

:16:43.:16:45.

is able to cross and get away with it. Why should Berlin, London,

:16:46.:16:53.

Washington be surprised by the strength of Vladimir Putin's

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reaction? It was never going to let Ukraine just fall into the arms of

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the EU. That is the interesting point. And who does he listen to?

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Paddy Ashdown was saying sent Angela Merkel because she is the only

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person who can talk to him and I find that response worrying. We need

:17:11.:17:14.

to speak with a united voice but nobody knows what we should be

:17:15.:17:18.

saying. Military intervention is out for the West so we go to economic

:17:19.:17:23.

sanctions. Doesn't Vladimir Putin just say, oh, you want sanctions? I

:17:24.:17:30.

have turned off the gas tap. Yes, it is move and countermove, and it is

:17:31.:17:33.

difficult to predict where it will end up. In all these meetings that

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are being held, they do think a step or two ahead and try and set out

:17:39.:18:12.

clear lines. Thank you for coming in this morning.

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Labour has been struggling since 2010 to decide exactly how to take

:18:15.:18:16.

education secretary Michael Gove, one of the boldest reformers of the

:18:17.:18:18.

coalition and most divisive figures. Ed Miliband appointed TV historian

:18:19.:18:20.

Tristram Hunt and many thought Labour had found the man to teach

:18:21.:18:23.

Michael Gove a lesson. But how much do we really know about the party's

:18:24.:18:25.

plans for England's schools? Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are a

:18:26.:18:28.

devolved matter. Child has been back to school to find out. A politician

:18:29.:18:31.

once told me, do you know why education secretaries changed

:18:32.:18:32.

schools? Because they can. Michael Gove might dispute the motive but he

:18:33.:18:35.

is changing schools, like this one. The changes he is ringing in our

:18:36.:18:37.

encouraging them to be academies, free from local authorities to

:18:38.:18:39.

control their own budgets, ushering in free schools, focusing on

:18:40.:18:42.

toughening exams and making them the core of the curriculum with less

:18:43.:18:44.

coursework, and offering heads more discretion on tougher discipline.

:18:45.:18:49.

And he is in a hurry to put all this in place. But has that shut out any

:18:50.:18:53.

chance for a Labour Government to change it all themselves and do they

:18:54.:18:58.

really want to? Any questions? Visiting a different school, first

:18:59.:19:04.

in line to get a crack at that would-be Labour's third shadow

:19:05.:19:07.

education secretary since 2010, Tristram Hunt. In post, he has not

:19:08.:19:12.

been taken about fine tuning previous direct opposition to free

:19:13.:19:15.

schools and he has also suggested teachers in England would have to be

:19:16.:19:20.

licensed under a Labour Government, allowing the worst to be sacked and

:19:21.:19:23.

offering training and development to others and of course ending

:19:24.:19:28.

coalition plans to allow unqualified teachers into classrooms. Full

:19:29.:19:31.

policy detail is still unmarked work. Your opinion about evolution?

:19:32.:19:43.

What is very clear is that Labour's education policy is still evolving.

:19:44.:19:48.

We are learning that they have some clear water, but we also seem, from

:19:49.:19:52.

the sting at the back, to get the feeling that there is not a great

:19:53.:19:56.

deal of difference from them and the current Government on types of

:19:57.:20:00.

schools and the way education should proceed. -- from listening at the

:20:01.:20:06.

back. So what exactly is different about their policy? What Tristram

:20:07.:20:11.

Hunt's job is to do is to be open and honest about the shared agenda

:20:12.:20:16.

between us and the Tories. There are a lot of areas where there is clear

:20:17.:20:19.

water between us and Tristram Hunt as to turn his back, shared agenda,

:20:20.:20:25.

stop fighting it, and forge our agenda, which I think people will be

:20:26.:20:30.

really interested in. The art of Government, of course, is to balance

:20:31.:20:35.

competing pictures of policy, even inside your own party. It is fair to

:20:36.:20:39.

say that if Labour reflects and draws its own visions of a shared

:20:40.:20:44.

agenda, it might have to square that idea with teaching unions, who are

:20:45.:20:47.

already unhappy with the pace and tone of change that the Government

:20:48.:20:52.

had sketched out. What we sincerely hope is that if Labour were to form

:20:53.:20:56.

the next Government, that they would look at a serious review of

:20:57.:21:20.

accountability measures. That is really what ways on teachers every

:21:21.:21:22.

single day. Actually they would look at restoring the possibility, for

:21:23.:21:24.

example, of local councillors to be able to open schools. That seems

:21:25.:21:27.

eminently sensible. If they are not going to move back from the free

:21:28.:21:29.

schools and academies programme at the very least they need to say that

:21:30.:21:32.

academy chains will be inspected because at the moment they are not.

:21:33.:21:34.

Labour have balls in the air on education and are still throwing

:21:35.:21:36.

around precise policy detail. There are areas that they could grab hold

:21:37.:21:39.

of and seize possession. A focus on the rounding of the people,

:21:40.:21:41.

developing character, the impact of digitalisation on the classroom

:21:42.:21:43.

Also the role and handling of teachers in the system and the

:21:44.:21:46.

interdependence of schools. That is all still to play for. Currently I

:21:47.:21:52.

think the difference between the parties is that the coalition

:21:53.:21:55.

policies, while we do not agree with all of them, are clear and explicit,

:21:56.:22:01.

and Labour's policies are yet to be formulated in a way that everybody

:22:02.:22:08.

can understand clearly. I don't think that Tristram Hunt or Miliband

:22:09.:22:11.

will want to pick unnecessary fights before the election. I think we will

:22:12.:22:18.

have quite a red, pinkish fuzziness around the whole area of policy but

:22:19.:22:24.

after the election there will be grey steel from Tristram Hunt. But

:22:25.:22:31.

if fuzzy policy before the election is the lesson plan, it does rather

:22:32.:22:34.

risk interested voters being left in the dark.

:22:35.:22:39.

Tristram Hunt joins me now for the Sunday interview.

:22:40.:22:51.

Welcome. Thank you. Which of Michael Gove's school reforms would you

:22:52.:22:56.

repeal? We are not interested in throwing a change for the sake of

:22:57.:22:59.

it. When I go round schools, teachers have been through very

:23:00.:23:02.

aggressive changes in the last three years, so when it comes to some of

:23:03.:23:06.

the curriculum reforms we have seen, we are not interested in changing

:23:07.:23:10.

those for the sake of it. Where we are interested in making change is

:23:11.:23:14.

having a focus on technical and vocational education, making sure

:23:15.:23:18.

that the forgotten 15% is properly addressed in our education system.

:23:19.:23:23.

What we saw in your package was an interesting description of how we

:23:24.:23:27.

have seen structural reforms in the names of schools. Academies, free

:23:28.:23:31.

schools, all the rest of it. International evidence is clear that

:23:32.:23:34.

it is the quality of leadership of the headteachers and the quality of

:23:35.:23:37.

teaching in the classroom that transforms the prospects of young

:23:38.:23:41.

people. Instead of tinkering around the names of schools, we focus on

:23:42.:23:46.

teacher quality. Viewers will be shocked to note that this Government

:23:47.:23:49.

approves of unqualified teachers in the classroom. We want to have fully

:23:50.:24:04.

qualified, passionate, motivated teachers in the classroom. It sounds

:24:05.:24:07.

like you might not repeal anything. You might build on it and you might

:24:08.:24:10.

go in a different direction, with more emphasis on technological

:24:11.:24:12.

education but no major repeal of the reforms of Michael Gove? I don't

:24:13.:24:14.

think you want to waste energy on undoing reforms. In certain

:24:15.:24:19.

situations they build on Labour Party policy. We introduced the

:24:20.:24:24.

sponsored academy programmes and we began the Teach First programmes,

:24:25.:24:28.

and we began the London challenge which transformed the educational

:24:29.:24:34.

prospects of children in London We want to roll that out across the

:24:35.:24:38.

country. You have said there will be no more free schools, which Michael

:24:39.:24:43.

Gove introduced, but you will allow parents let academies, which just

:24:44.:24:46.

means free schools by a different name. No, because they will be in

:24:47.:24:56.

certain areas. We want to create new schools with parents. What we have

:24:57.:25:00.

at the moment is a destructive and market-driven approach to

:25:01.:25:03.

education. I was in Stroud on Thursday and plans for a big new

:25:04.:25:08.

school, in an area with surplus places, threatened to destroy the

:25:09.:25:12.

viability of local, rural schools. We want schools to work together in

:25:13.:25:16.

a network of partnership and challenge, rather than this

:25:17.:25:20.

destructive market-driven approach. You say that, but your version of

:25:21.:25:46.

free schools, I think, would only be allowed where there is a shortage of

:25:47.:25:48.

places. That means that where there is an excess of bad schools, parents

:25:49.:25:51.

will have no choice. They still have to send their kids to bad schools.

:25:52.:25:54.

And we have to transform bad schools and that was always the Labour way

:25:55.:25:57.

in Government. At the moment we just have an insertion of new schools.

:25:58.:25:58.

Schools currently underperforming are now underperforming even more.

:25:59.:26:01.

Children only have one chance at education. What about their time in

:26:02.:26:03.

school? Our focus is on the leadership of the headteacher and

:26:04.:26:05.

having quality teachers in the classroom. So they cannot set up new

:26:06.:26:08.

better schools and they have to go to the bad schools. Tony Blair said

:26:09.:26:11.

it should be easier for parents to set up new schools where they are

:26:12.:26:13.

dissatisfied with existing schools. You are not saying that. Even where

:26:14.:26:17.

they are dissatisfied with existing schools, they cannot set up free

:26:18.:26:20.

schools and you are reneging on that. We live in difficult economic

:26:21.:26:26.

circumstances where we have got to focus public finances on the areas

:26:27.:26:31.

of absolute need. We need 250,0 0 new school places. 150,000 in London

:26:32.:26:37.

alone. We have to focus on building new schools and where we have to put

:26:38.:26:45.

them. And secondly... Absolutely not. Focusing on those schools.

:26:46.:26:49.

Making sure we turned them around, just as we did in Government. We

:26:50.:26:54.

have had a remarkable degree of waste under the free school

:26:55.:26:58.

programme. If you think of the free school in Derby, the Academy in

:26:59.:27:03.

Bradford, and as we saw in the Telegraph on Friday, the free

:27:04.:27:06.

schools in Suffolk, a great deal of waste of public money on

:27:07.:27:09.

underperforming free schools. That is not the Labour way. We focus on

:27:10.:27:13.

making sure that kids in schools at the moment get the best possible

:27:14.:27:18.

education. Except that in your own backyard, in Stoke, only 34% of

:27:19.:27:24.

secondary school pupils attend a good or outstanding school. 148 out

:27:25.:27:32.

of 150 of the worst performing local authorities and it is

:27:33.:27:35.

Labour-controlled. Still terrible schools and yet you say parents

:27:36.:27:40.

should not have the freedom to start a better school. We have great

:27:41.:27:44.

schools in Stoke-on-Trent as well. We face challenges, just as

:27:45.:27:47.

Wolverhampton does and the Isle of Wight and Lincolnshire. Just like

:27:48.:27:53.

large parts of the country. What is the solution to that? Making sure we

:27:54.:27:57.

share excellence among the existing schools and making sure we have

:27:58.:28:02.

quality leadership in schools. Those schools in Stoke-on-Trent are all

:28:03.:28:05.

academies. It is not a question only of structure but of leadership. It

:28:06.:28:09.

is also a question of going back to the responsibility of parents to

:28:10.:28:12.

make sure their kids are school ready when they get to school. To

:28:13.:28:16.

make sure they are reading to their children in the evening. We can t

:28:17.:28:51.

put it all on teachers. Parents have responsibilities. I understand that

:28:52.:28:53.

but you have told me Labour's policy would not be to set up new schools

:28:54.:28:56.

which parents hope will be better. Parents continue to send their kids

:28:57.:28:58.

to bad schools in areas like Stoke. Labour has had plenty of time to

:28:59.:29:01.

sort out these schools in Stoke and they are still among the worst

:29:02.:29:04.

performing in the country. You are condemning these parents to having

:29:05.:29:06.

to send their kids to bad schools. Where we have seen the sett ing up

:29:07.:29:09.

of Derby, Suffolk, we have seen that is not the simple solution. Is

:29:10.:29:12.

simply setting up a new is not a successful model. What works is good

:29:13.:29:14.

leadership. I was in Birmingham on Friday at a failing comprehensive is

:29:15.:29:17.

not a successful model. What works is good leadership. I was in

:29:18.:29:19.

Birmingham on Friday at a failing comprehensive school and now people

:29:20.:29:22.

are queueing round the block to get into it. You can turn around schools

:29:23.:29:24.

with the right leadership, passionate and motivated teachers,

:29:25.:29:26.

and parents engaged with the learning outcome of their kids. In

:29:27.:29:31.

the last few years of the Labour Government, only four kids from your

:29:32.:29:36.

this Government would set up the new school. In Birmingham, they got in a

:29:37.:29:39.

great headmaster and turned the school around and now people are

:29:40.:29:41.

queueing round the block to get into it. You can turnaround schools with

:29:42.:29:44.

the right leadership, passionate and motivated teachers, and parents

:29:45.:29:46.

engaged with the learning outcome of their kids. In the last few years of

:29:47.:29:48.

a Labour Government, only four kids from your area of and you had plenty

:29:49.:29:51.

of chances to put this right but only four got to the two and you had

:29:52.:29:55.

plenty of chances to put this right but only four got to the two leading

:29:56.:30:00.

universities. Traditionally young people could leave school at 16 and

:30:01.:30:04.

walking two jobs in the potteries, the steel industry, the

:30:05.:30:07.

traditionally young people could leave school at 16 and walking two

:30:08.:30:10.

jobs in the potteries, the steel industry, the but also to get an

:30:11.:30:16.

apprenticeship at Jaguar Land Rover, JCB, Rolls-Royce. That is why

:30:17.:30:23.

Ed Miliband's focus on the forgotten 15%, which we have just not seen

:30:24.:30:29.

from this Government, focusing on technical and vocational pathways,

:30:30.:30:40.

is fundamental to Your headmaster was guiles Slaughter. Was he a good

:30:41.:30:56.

teacher? He He never taught me. Over 90% of teeners in the private

:30:57.:31:03.

sector are qualified. They look for not simply teachers with qualified

:31:04.:31:07.

teacher status. Teachers with MAs. Teachers who are improving them

:31:08.:31:11.

cephalitis. Becoming better educators.

:31:12.:31:20.

cephalitis. Becoming better teaching. You were taught by

:31:21.:31:20.

unqualified teachers. Your parents paid over ?15,000 a year for you

:31:21.:31:26.

being taught by unqualified teachers. Why did you make such a

:31:27.:31:30.

big deal of it? Because we've seen right around the world those

:31:31.:31:34.

education systems which focus on having the most qualified teachers

:31:35.:31:41.

perform the best. It cannot be right that anyone can simply turn up, as

:31:42.:31:48.

at the moment, have schools at veritising for unqualified teachers

:31:49.:31:51.

teaching in the classroom. We want the best qualified teachers with the

:31:52.:31:58.

deepest subject knowledge, for the passion in learning for their kids.

:31:59.:32:04.

It is absurd we are having arguments about this. Simply having a paper

:32:05.:32:08.

qualification doesn't make you a great teacher. Let me take you to

:32:09.:32:14.

Brighton college. It is gone from the 147th to the 18 18th best

:32:15.:32:20.

private school in the land. Fllt the headmaster says:

:32:21.:32:34.

This is the top Sundaytimes school of the year. The school in derby

:32:35.:32:47.

where this Government allowed unqualified teaching assist taints.

:32:48.:32:50.

We had teachers who could barely speak English. That is because if

:32:51.:32:54.

you have unqualified teachers you end up with a dangerous situation.

:32:55.:32:58.

The problem with that school was not unqualified teachers. People were

:32:59.:33:03.

running that school who were unfit to run a school. We have an issue

:33:04.:33:08.

about discipline and behaviour management in some of our schools.

:33:09.:33:12.

Some of the skills teachers gain through qualifications and learning

:33:13.:33:16.

is how to manage classes and get the best out of kids at every stage. It

:33:17.:33:21.

doesn't end with a qualified teacher status. That's just the beginning.

:33:22.:33:27.

We want our teachers to have continue it will development. It is

:33:28.:33:31.

not good enough to have your initial teacher trainingaged work through

:33:32.:33:37.

your career for 30 years. You need continual learning. Learning how to

:33:38.:33:42.

deal with digital technology. Refresh your subject knowledge. As

:33:43.:33:47.

an historian I help teachers. You've taught as an unqualified teacher.

:33:48.:33:53.

Not in charge of a subject group. I give the odd lecture. I'm-y to go to

:33:54.:33:59.

as many schools as possible. I don't blame you. It is uplifting. Would

:34:00.:34:03.

you sack all unqualified teachers? We'd want them all to gain teacher

:34:04.:34:11.

status. What if they say no? If they are not interested in improving

:34:12.:34:16.

skills and deepening their knowledge they should not be in the classroom.

:34:17.:34:24.

If a free school or academy hired a teach thinking they are a great

:34:25.:34:28.

teacher but unqualified, if they are then forced by you to fire them,

:34:29.:34:34.

they will be in breach of the law. They are being urged by us to make

:34:35.:34:37.

sure they have qualified teacher status. We've lots of unqualified

:34:38.:34:43.

teachers as long as they are on the pathway to making sure they are

:34:44.:34:47.

qualified. But if they say they don't want to do this, will you fire

:34:48.:34:52.

them? It is not an unreasonable suggestion is that the teachers in

:34:53.:34:56.

charge of our young people have qualifications to teach and inspire

:34:57.:35:00.

our young people particularly when we face global competition from

:35:01.:35:06.

Shanghai, Korea and so on. The head teacher of Brighton college finds

:35:07.:35:11.

incredibly inspeechational teachers who don't' necessarily have a

:35:12.:35:16.

teaching qualifications. It is a different skill to teach ten young

:35:17.:35:24.

nice boys and girls in Brighton to teaches 20 or 30 quids with

:35:25.:35:28.

challenging circumstances, special educational needs, different

:35:29.:35:32.

ability. Being a teacher at Brighton college is an easy gig in comparison

:35:33.:35:37.

to other schools. Where we want teachers to have a capacity to teach

:35:38.:35:43.

properly. Do you think Tristram could ever lead the Labour Party? I

:35:44.:35:51.

think Ed is a great leader, the reforms yesterday were a real sign

:35:52.:35:55.

for his leadership. And the fact David Owen, the man with a

:35:56.:35:58.

pre-history with our party is back with us. It is great. Even Gideon

:35:59.:36:04.

had to change his name to George. Have you thought of switching to

:36:05.:36:13.

Tommy or Tony? Maybe not Tony! Michael Foot was called Dingle Foot.

:36:14.:36:18.

I love the Labour because it accepts everybody from me to Len McCluskey.

:36:19.:36:22.

We are a big, broad happy family on our way to Government. Thank you

:36:23.:36:26.

very much. You're watching The Sunday Politics.

:36:27.:36:32.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us for Sunday

:36:33.:36:37.

politics Scotland. In over 20 minutes I'll look at

:36:38.:36:45.

In the East Midlands, could you turn someone's life around? The desperate

:36:46.:36:50.

plea for more people to come forward as foster carers.

:36:51.:36:54.

It does in a way surprise me that not so many people are wanting to

:36:55.:36:59.

foster or adopt children. So yeah, I think more people should.

:37:00.:37:06.

Just have a look at how much loft insulation you've got up here.

:37:07.:37:10.

??WHIT E And ?4,000 cashback for insulating your home ` we'll be

:37:11.:37:14.

looking at a new lease of life for a scheme designed to give us all lower

:37:15.:37:17.

electricity bills. ?? I'm Marie Ashby, and my guests

:37:18.:37:21.

this week, the Liberal Democrat Parliamentary candidate for

:37:22.:37:23.

Ashfield, and on Nottinghamshire County Council Jason Zadrozny, and

:37:24.:37:25.

Labour's MP for Nottingham South, Lilian Greenwood.

:37:26.:37:32.

But first, it's been a big week in the battle over council cuts, with

:37:33.:37:35.

two of our councils approving controversial budgets. There were

:37:36.:37:39.

protests at County Hall in West Bridgford, as Nottinghamshire County

:37:40.:37:41.

Council approved ?80 million of cuts. The new budget withdraws

:37:42.:37:46.

funding to Nottingham Playhouse, homeless groups and youth services.

:37:47.:37:51.

Leicester City Council is looking to cut ?40 million and 100 jobs, and

:37:52.:38:01.

services are being hit there too. Jason, you are a County Council in

:38:02.:38:05.

Nottinghamshire. Did you accept these cuts have to be made? I think

:38:06.:38:10.

we agreed with it might of money that needed to be saved, but

:38:11.:38:15.

certainly my group and almost every opposition councillor for their work

:38:16.:38:20.

other ways to do it. Alternative budget showed that. So we could have

:38:21.:38:25.

saved some of those vital front`line services without making such big

:38:26.:38:29.

changes to people's lives. But how could they have not make those

:38:30.:38:34.

changes? You need to actually put your shoulder to the wheel and be

:38:35.:38:38.

more creative. The alternate budgets look at ways of outsourcing some of

:38:39.:38:44.

the back office things, planning services, and saving money there.

:38:45.:38:47.

And they are already doing things like that? Some of it, but that

:38:48.:38:54.

cancelled times over `` terms of over half ?1 billion per year. A

:38:55.:38:58.

Labour authority cutting grants to the homeless. Surely there must have

:38:59.:39:05.

been some other way of doing this. These are cuts that absolutely

:39:06.:39:09.

nobody would want, and I know lots of Labour councillors are struggling

:39:10.:39:12.

with this, but the Government has cut the amount of money available by

:39:13.:39:18.

40% in this Parliament and made really unfair cuts. The councils

:39:19.:39:22.

with the most deprivation have been cut the most. In Nottinghamshire

:39:23.:39:28.

County they have lost ?63 per person compared with some of the least

:39:29.:39:32.

deprived areas like summary and Nottinghamshire which have lost

:39:33.:39:34.

about half that amount. The blame lies very squarely with the Lib Dems

:39:35.:39:41.

and Tories and Government. Of course Lilian would say that. Those other

:39:42.:39:48.

councils we talk about had much less to take away from in the first

:39:49.:39:51.

place. The reason Nottinghamshire had a bigger chunk taken away was

:39:52.:39:57.

that it is so reliant on grants. For year after year they have asked for

:39:58.:39:59.

grants instead of diversifying their ink constraint. We have different ``

:40:00.:40:05.

good services we could have charged for.

:40:06.:40:07.

Well, next, there's been a desperate plea for more people to come forward

:40:08.:40:11.

as foster carers, to help some of the most vulnerable children in

:40:12.:40:14.

society. Councils say the number of young people being put into care has

:40:15.:40:18.

rocketed in the wake of child abuse scandals. Our political editor John

:40:19.:40:20.

Hess has been meeting foster carers and people whose lives have been

:40:21.:40:23.

turned around by being placed with a new family.

:40:24.:40:28.

and people whose lives have been Saying thanks, 19`year`old Naomi

:40:29.:40:32.

Maher makes a Chinese Lockhart for a foster mother. She is back home in

:40:33.:40:37.

to ensure after the opportunity of a lifetime food to visit western

:40:38.:40:41.

China. `` love heart. She is also back home to her foster parents.

:40:42.:40:47.

When I first came into care I went to maybe five or six different

:40:48.:40:51.

placements in quite a short period of time, which I guess for anybody

:40:52.:40:56.

could be quite daunting and quite confusing. So I think when I finally

:40:57.:41:01.

came here it was much better for my emotional well`being to be in a

:41:02.:41:07.

stable family. Eleanor Morrison has been Naomi's

:41:08.:41:11.

foster mother for 12 years. I always wanted a big family. I had three

:41:12.:41:17.

children, and so we decided that we could offer something else to some

:41:18.:41:22.

other children. Naomi's step is university, but not every child in

:41:23.:41:27.

care finds a ready`made foster home. In Nottinghamshire there is a real

:41:28.:41:30.

shortage. For councils like Nottinghamshire

:41:31.:41:33.

facing severe budget pressures, this is why it needs to find war foster

:41:34.:41:38.

parents, because the cost of the Council of putting a child in

:41:39.:41:42.

council residential care is almost 2,100 pounds per week impaired to

:41:43.:41:50.

?447 per week, the cost to the Council of putting a child in a

:41:51.:41:55.

foster home. It was the repercussions of the Baby

:41:56.:41:58.

Peter child cruelty case in north London that forced a national of a

:41:59.:42:01.

national overhaul in council all asleep towards child protection.

:42:02.:42:10.

More children are now in care. For Kate Foale, the politician in

:42:11.:42:12.

charge of children's care services, but finds `` means finding more

:42:13.:42:18.

foster parents. There are 400 more children in care than there were

:42:19.:42:24.

four or five years ago. We must the acute budget pressures as well on

:42:25.:42:28.

residential care. `` that must be. Yes, the absolute best place for

:42:29.:42:36.

children is in a loving, caring foster home or adoptive home. Not

:42:37.:42:40.

only is it cheaper, it is much better for them.

:42:41.:42:44.

If only finding foster parents was as easy as picking flowers. The

:42:45.:42:47.

County Council needs 25 extra carers each year. Lisa Creasey is one of

:42:48.:42:54.

them. She and her husband started fostering four years ago. You meet

:42:55.:42:58.

with somebody from the Social Services, you talk about the reasons

:42:59.:43:01.

why you would like to foster, and you spend quite a few weeks, weekly

:43:02.:43:07.

visits, having a social work are coming to see you running through

:43:08.:43:11.

everything, your background, your family's needs, it is quite a

:43:12.:43:16.

lengthy process, and sometimes it can feel quite personal. But as a

:43:17.:43:22.

potential foster carer you want to feel that you are safe to be looking

:43:23.:43:28.

at these children. This is the Chinese word for love.

:43:29.:43:33.

Naomi is starting out her life as a young adult, thanks to foster

:43:34.:43:36.

parents who gave her a warm, loving home when she needed it most. It

:43:37.:43:41.

surprises me that not so many people are wanting to foster or adopt

:43:42.:43:47.

children. So yes, I think more people should.

:43:48.:43:49.

Well, we're joined from our London studio now by Dr Lucy Peake from the

:43:50.:43:53.

Fostering Network ` Lucy, hi, we heard in John's report that there's

:43:54.:43:57.

been this big rise in young people being taken into care. Are

:43:58.:44:05.

politicians doing enough? Avec in general politicians

:44:06.:44:07.

understand the needs of children who are coming into care and the need to

:44:08.:44:12.

recruit more foster care was to look after them. But the financial

:44:13.:44:18.

packages are in place `` must be in place, to support those foster

:44:19.:44:22.

carers who are providing the care to those vulnerable children. So it is

:44:23.:44:25.

about finances to ensure that we recruit your `` right people, but

:44:26.:44:30.

also support those foster carers once they are doing the job. It

:44:31.:44:35.

makes sense to invest in this wisely, because it is so much

:44:36.:44:40.

cheaper for someone to go into foster care than to go into a home.

:44:41.:44:44.

I was a foster carer for three or four years. I always felt the County

:44:45.:44:49.

Council did not invest enough to make people feel like it was

:44:50.:44:53.

something they could do, training and support, and if they can save

:44:54.:44:57.

some money as well they can reinvest that in exactly those things so

:44:58.:44:59.

people can feel confident about offering some support and love in

:45:00.:45:03.

terms of a family for somebody who needs it. And we do more, though Tom

:45:04.:45:08.

when we have been talking about cuts in budgets? Is back can we do more?

:45:09.:45:14.

I think that is one of the challenges that local authorities

:45:15.:45:18.

are facing, but it is also about telling people that they could beat

:45:19.:45:24.

foster carers. It is open to anyone over 21, whether they are unemployed

:45:25.:45:31.

or employed. `` whether they could be foster carers. It is about

:45:32.:45:35.

whether you can offer a loving home to a child but has support needs. It

:45:36.:45:43.

is the `` import that people know there is support available, both

:45:44.:45:47.

financial and training and help. If you are taking on a child from a

:45:48.:45:50.

difficult ground, you want to be wanted you do that. So is there

:45:51.:45:55.

enough money going into this? The Government has said there is no

:45:56.:46:00.

hierarchy of care, but we can see that more Government funding goes

:46:01.:46:05.

into adoption than fostering. So we are keen to say, let us put the

:46:06.:46:12.

money to support fostering as well. There is a huge disparity as well on

:46:13.:46:17.

the amount spent on adoption, I think it is ?50 million, and I think

:46:18.:46:20.

three quarters of a million on fostering. That is at national

:46:21.:46:25.

level. Local authorities are working really hard to continue to recruit

:46:26.:46:28.

foster carers. The challenge as you said is that the are more children

:46:29.:46:35.

coming into care, and also a churn within the foster carer population,

:46:36.:46:39.

so some are retiring and local authorities therefore need to meet

:46:40.:46:42.

the new demand, but also replace those foster carers who are leaving.

:46:43.:46:46.

What was your experience like, Jason? It was quite positive. When

:46:47.:46:52.

you get elected to County Council you cannot be a foster carer any

:46:53.:46:56.

longer. I always felt there was a little bit too much pressure, I had

:46:57.:47:00.

a young boy brought to me, emergency respite, he was there two years. So

:47:01.:47:05.

there was this need that they did not prepare people for properly. It

:47:06.:47:11.

is an incredibly rewarding process. But I think the County Council 's

:47:12.:47:15.

need to do much more to say, if this is for you we will support you

:47:16.:47:18.

better. One of the things Nottinghamshire County Council told

:47:19.:47:22.

us is that one of the big problems they face is that many people are

:47:23.:47:27.

interested in fostering, but more so in younger children, under four

:47:28.:47:31.

years old for example. But they have so many teenagers who need a home.

:47:32.:47:36.

That is similar across the country. We have a real need to recruit

:47:37.:47:41.

foster carers to look after sibling groups, teenagers and children with

:47:42.:47:44.

disabilities. So it is really important we talk about the

:47:45.:47:47.

different types of foster care are available, and we try and reach out

:47:48.:47:51.

to as many people as possible and encourage them to come forward. How

:47:52.:47:56.

can we make it easier, because obviously it is not an easy thing to

:47:57.:48:01.

do obviously to be a foster parent, there are so many hoops and hurdles

:48:02.:48:06.

to go through. We have to give people the confidence that they can

:48:07.:48:11.

be foster carers, that it is about having energy, being able to listen

:48:12.:48:15.

and empathise, and the fact that you will be able to get support in

:48:16.:48:19.

dealing with children with complex needs or learning disabilities.

:48:20.:48:24.

Everybody's teenagers can be a challenge anyway, so I think it is

:48:25.:48:27.

partly about telling people they can be foster carers, but to come back

:48:28.:48:30.

to the other point we were talking about budgets, we need county

:48:31.:48:36.

councils, people like Jason, to be standing up for Nottinghamshire and

:48:37.:48:39.

saying we need fair funding in our county, because if we are having to

:48:40.:48:46.

deal with cuts you have got to make those numbers add up. So why should

:48:47.:48:50.

people do it, why should somebody decide to become a foster parent?

:48:51.:48:54.

Foster carers come forward because they want to make a difference to

:48:55.:48:58.

children's lives. The about whether you want to make a difference to a

:48:59.:49:05.

child's lives, if so that other foster carers.

:49:06.:49:15.

`` if so talk to other foster carers.

:49:16.:49:17.

Now, from giving children a warm welcome to keeping warm and cutting

:49:18.:49:20.

our fuel bills. The Government is planning a relaunch of its Green

:49:21.:49:23.

Deal, a scheme designed to persuade more people to take up energy`saving

:49:24.:49:26.

measures. It's been criticised for being too complicated in the past

:49:27.:49:30.

and take`up's been rather slow, but changes to be unveiled next month

:49:31.:49:33.

should make it easier for people to get cash help to insulate their

:49:34.:49:37.

homes and cut down on their electricity bills. Des Coleman's

:49:38.:49:41.

been finding out what it all means. I am at a typical house in

:49:42.:49:47.

Leicester. Mike is doing a Green Deal assessment. What is that? Are

:49:48.:49:53.

basically carrying out energy performance certificate, the

:49:54.:49:55.

prerequisite to a Green Deal plan. This property is a solid wall

:49:56.:50:01.

construction, so it is of real revelling `` relevance to a Green

:50:02.:50:05.

Deal. You are from the company that

:50:06.:50:09.

employs Mike. He is giving the property and energy rating, which

:50:10.:50:14.

will typically be a two grams, they being the highest and G being the

:50:15.:50:19.

worst. A solid walled house could save customers up to ?750,000 per

:50:20.:50:25.

year on their fuel bills. How is this pay for? It is paid for with a

:50:26.:50:30.

Green Deal finance loan. How that works is if they are typically `` if

:50:31.:50:36.

their typical electron were 100 pounds per month, it might reduce

:50:37.:50:42.

them `` the bill to around ?60 per month, but the customer would still

:50:43.:50:46.

have to repay the Green Deal load which may be ?20 per month. So

:50:47.:50:51.

together with a Green Deal loan and interest, they may be repaying ?80

:50:52.:50:55.

per month but typically they have saved ?20 per month. What measures

:50:56.:51:00.

are we talking? That a lot of measures available, 45 in total, but

:51:01.:51:04.

the main ones are solid wall insulation, cavity insulation, a new

:51:05.:51:10.

condensing boiler, some of the renewable measures like air source

:51:11.:51:16.

heat pumps. The uptake has not been great. No, it has been slow to begin

:51:17.:51:21.

with, but the Government has put new incentives in place, so for a solid

:51:22.:51:24.

walled house such as this one you could get up to ?4000 cashback once

:51:25.:51:28.

the energy efficiency measures have been installed. Is that actually

:51:29.:51:35.

cashback or part of the loan? It is cashback. Once the energy efficiency

:51:36.:51:38.

measure has been installed, the customer will have a voucher they

:51:39.:51:43.

can redeem, and it will actually be cash they are free to spend in any

:51:44.:51:47.

way they choose. Well, Mike has done his assessment

:51:48.:51:53.

and it seems like this House, for an expenditure of ?9,000 on solid wall

:51:54.:51:55.

insulation and loft insulation, can save around 850 pounds per year and

:51:56.:52:04.

get ?400,000 `` ?4000 cashback. Is this a good enough incentive to get

:52:05.:52:09.

thousands of homes taking it up? This is something you have taken a

:52:10.:52:13.

keen interest in. Were these changes make a difference? We all agreed

:52:14.:52:19.

that energy efficiency is important to bringing down bills. The

:52:20.:52:22.

Government scheme is just simply too complex and not sufficiently

:52:23.:52:27.

affordable. It is about loans at interest rates of six. People will

:52:28.:52:34.

spend more on interest rates than they will on the measures.

:52:35.:52:41.

Unfortunately so far, there has only been about 1,200 people had

:52:42.:52:53.

assessment, and 750 taking it up. It has been almost 150,000 assessments

:52:54.:52:59.

done, 1,700 and take it up and 80% of the 150,000 and have either had

:53:00.:53:05.

further work done, are in the process `` progress of it or are

:53:06.:53:10.

considering it. I spoke to the Department of energy and climate

:53:11.:53:13.

change today and those were the figures they presented. They are

:53:14.:53:16.

really positive about it. It has been going a year, this is a

:53:17.:53:20.

programme that will work for decades. We will make people's homes

:53:21.:53:30.

warmer and bring their bills down. Labour have no other plans to change

:53:31.:53:35.

it, they do not like it, but it is an important issue and we need to

:53:36.:53:39.

bring it right. `` make it right. Jason, your figures do not match up

:53:40.:53:43.

with the figures are and the BBC have had. Lilian has been so badly

:53:44.:53:49.

taken up, but people are worried what will happen if they have two

:53:50.:53:58.

sell the houses in the future. `` Green Deal has been so badly taken

:53:59.:54:03.

up. Our scheme would have lower`cost loans for homes and small

:54:04.:54:06.

businesses, and we will be publishing a green paper on this

:54:07.:54:10.

later this year. We have already taken very strong steps to set out

:54:11.:54:14.

what we would do to help people faced with the high costs of energy.

:54:15.:54:19.

You can shake your head, but you look at Nottingham city weather has

:54:20.:54:22.

been huge amounts of work done in our city to tackle energy efficiency

:54:23.:54:30.

for is stop `` where there has been. I have been working on the need for

:54:31.:54:35.

tackling hard to treat properties... But there is a report

:54:36.:54:42.

due to come out from a Nottingham sure `` Nottingham firm that's ``

:54:43.:54:48.

saying that cutting VAT on board as an insulation would be more

:54:49.:54:51.

effective. We tried that in the past. I work for B where they

:54:52.:55:04.

tried VAT holidays on insulation, and they work to a certain level.

:55:05.:55:13.

These things really do work. The Government are investing half ?1

:55:14.:55:15.

billion to subsidise this work to get done more. Maybe it just seems

:55:16.:55:21.

more `` too complicated for people. You have had a scheme in your

:55:22.:55:25.

constituency when the project and select thousands of homes in Clifton

:55:26.:55:30.

hit problems. British Gas announced they were pulling out because of the

:55:31.:55:33.

changes to the way the Government finance schemes like this. What is

:55:34.:55:37.

the latest in Clifton? When the Government announced the changes,

:55:38.:55:47.

British Gas pulled out. The really good news is that the contracts ``

:55:48.:55:51.

the contractors have been working at full pace to get done the work for

:55:52.:55:55.

those people who had already signed up in Clifton North, so we hope

:55:56.:56:01.

people who have already paid their money will get their insulation

:56:02.:56:04.

done, and when people have it done they really appreciate the

:56:05.:56:06.

difference it takes to their bills and have warned their homes fuels.

:56:07.:56:14.

`` their homes feel. There are 3,000 other solid wall on the Clifton

:56:15.:56:20.

estate, and others across the city, the trouble is that eco`has

:56:21.:56:28.

changed, it now cannot be used alongside Green Deal. It costs

:56:29.:56:34.

around maybe 8,000 to ?10,000 to insulate homes, and the sort of

:56:35.:56:36.

people who were in fuel poverty cannot afford these loans. So it is

:56:37.:56:44.

not just Clifton, Derby tell us they have had a similar plan for 7,000

:56:45.:56:47.

homes put on hold cause of similar problems. When you are starting

:56:48.:56:54.

something this massive, and let's face it only took it seriously, only

:56:55.:56:58.

the Lib Dems were championing green courses, but this sort of thing if

:56:59.:57:03.

got right brings people's Bilston, it creates tonnes of jobs and

:57:04.:57:08.

apprenticeships. `` it brings people's bills down. People who were

:57:09.:57:19.

about to change stuck `` start apprenticeships, they are now on

:57:20.:57:23.

hold. We'll have to leave it there. Let's

:57:24.:57:27.

have a look at some of the other stories happening in the East

:57:28.:57:29.

Midlands, in our 60`second round`up. Derby has been named as one of the

:57:30.:57:34.

top 25 places in Europe to invest in by an influential think`tank. The

:57:35.:57:36.

report by fDi Intelligence used measures like economic potential,

:57:37.:57:39.

the ability of its workforce and quality of life.

:57:40.:57:46.

Tory MP Mark Spencer's been taking the bus and the tram to find out

:57:47.:57:49.

what it's like using public transport in his Sherwood

:57:50.:57:52.

constituency. He travelled across his patch, occasionally waiting at

:57:53.:57:54.

the wrong bus stop. We can't even read the timetable

:57:55.:57:58.

correctly so we were stood at the bus stop for too long, freezing

:57:59.:57:59.

cold... He took almost seven hours ` and the

:58:00.:58:04.

comments, by the way, were added by his office.

:58:05.:58:06.

I think it's cost us about ?22 each to do that journey ` but I have to

:58:07.:58:10.

say the whole thing was quite impressive.

:58:11.:58:12.

And finally, Nottingham City Council's Deputy Leader helped to

:58:13.:58:15.

spare the blushes of our political editor John Hess. Graham Chapman

:58:16.:58:19.

lent a helping hand when John's notes blew away ` a rare case of

:58:20.:58:22.

cooperation between press and politicians.

:58:23.:58:27.

Cue the Benny Hill music really there, isn't it? Judging by Mark

:58:28.:58:30.

Spencer's experience though on the trams and the buses, more

:58:31.:58:32.

politicians should be getting out there on public transport, Lilian.

:58:33.:58:40.

Well, I would hope that politicians use public transport themselves

:58:41.:58:43.

anyway. Obviously being an MP for Nottingham that's very easy to do,

:58:44.:58:47.

because we've got such an excellent public transport network.

:58:48.:58:51.

You would say that. How often do you get on the bus, Jason? I don't do it

:58:52.:58:56.

very often. I use the train a fair bit... You don't get on a bus? I

:58:57.:59:00.

don't, I know. And Mark's probably put me off, I was expecting Olive

:59:01.:59:04.

and Blakey to run out there at any moment! I don't think that was his

:59:05.:59:09.

plan, to put you off, I think it was to try and encourage more people to

:59:10.:59:12.

do it, but there you go. Thanks very much indeed, both of

:59:13.:59:16.

you. Next week we've a special report from Afghanistan and the East

:59:17.:59:19.

Midlands troops there ` junior defence minister and Broxtowe MP

:59:20.:59:22.

Anna Soubry joins us in the studio ` and later in the month we're on the

:59:23.:59:26.

road again, with a Europe special from Brussels. We'll be speaking to

:59:27.:59:30.

all of the region's Euro MPs, so if you've got a question for them do

:59:31.:59:34.

let us know. You can contact us by looking for BBC Sunday Politics East

:59:35.:59:37.

Midlands on Facebook, or you can go to our

:59:38.:59:40.

Government to change it. Thank you both for being here. Andrew, back to

:59:41.:59:42.

you. This week grant Shap said he wanted

:59:43.:59:55.

to rebrand the Tories as the workers' party to show it can reach

:59:56.:00:01.

out to blue-collar workers. One Conservative Party MP said they

:00:02.:00:05.

should scrap what he said was their boring old logo. We asked him and

:00:06.:00:13.

two other independent MPs how they'd freshen up their logos.

:00:14.:00:23.

Aspiration's always been our core value. About helping people get on

:00:24.:00:28.

with life. Giving people ladders of opportunity. That's why our symbol

:00:29.:00:33.

must reflect our values of aspiration and why I'm calling for

:00:34.:00:38.

our symbol to be changed from a tree to a ladder which symbolises social

:00:39.:00:45.

mobility and stands up for everything conservatism represents.

:00:46.:00:50.

I like an he will fanned, an animal that never forgets. We're the only

:00:51.:00:55.

party which seems to remember what life was like before the NHS and

:00:56.:01:01.

minimum wage and the global financial crash was caused by too

:01:02.:01:04.

little regulation not too much. We have a leader who can spot the

:01:05.:01:10.

elephant in the room, the lack of women on the Tory frontbench. The

:01:11.:01:16.

republicans in America have had the same idea. Theirs is a suspicious

:01:17.:01:22.

blue. Our would be deepest red. We love our Liberal Democrat bird. Mrs

:01:23.:01:26.

Thatcher called it the dead parrot when we launched it. We won the

:01:27.:01:32.

Eastbourne by-election off the Tories very soon aftered with.

:01:33.:01:37.

Perhaps it feels like we're in a coalition cage but we're escaping

:01:38.:01:42.

that soon. Why does it fly to the right? Most Liberal Democrats would

:01:43.:01:46.

want it to fly to the left. I hope it will soon.

:01:47.:01:54.

Interesting there. Let's stick with the Robert Hall pin one. He was

:01:55.:01:59.

being serious. The others were fun. It is interesting that talking about

:02:00.:02:05.

appealing to the blue collared vote, the upper working class, lower

:02:06.:02:11.

middle class, curiously now neither Mr Cameron nor Mr Miliband has great

:02:12.:02:15.

cut through with these people. But in wanting to be the Workers Party,

:02:16.:02:23.

how do you square that with choosing five old Etonians to draw up four

:02:24.:02:29.

next manifesto. Labour said one of the things was cutting inheritance

:02:30.:02:35.

tax, after all their priorities they went to privilege rather than earned

:02:36.:02:38.

income. Rebranding is not enough. The one question the modernisers

:02:39.:02:43.

never asked themselves when they took party ten years ago is the

:02:44.:02:50.

thing we know as the Conservative Party, salvageable as a brand? I'm

:02:51.:02:53.

beginning to think it isn't. If you look at all public opinion research,

:02:54.:02:59.

there are lots of people in this contrary with Conservative views.

:03:00.:03:05.

They won't vote Tory or contemplate the possibility of voting Tory. Can

:03:06.:03:10.

we get over the electoral problems by relaunching as a different

:03:11.:03:16.

pro-business, pro-worker party. That means new name, new logo. It will

:03:17.:03:21.

mean new people as well. If you say you're on the sides of what Thatcher

:03:22.:03:26.

called the strivers, the people themselves want to see you have

:03:27.:03:30.

strivers in the people who run your party so you know what we've been

:03:31.:03:35.

through, the struggles we've had. How many of the six drawing up the

:03:36.:03:40.

manifesto have had ever a mortgage. The one who's not an old Etonian

:03:41.:03:46.

went to St Paul's. He's a day schoolboy! It is interesting and it

:03:47.:03:51.

was funny you mentioned an elephant. Don't think of an elephant as the

:03:52.:03:56.

title of that book. Calling it the Workers Party draws attention to the

:03:57.:04:00.

Tories biggest electoral weakness. The idea they are a class apart Out

:04:01.:04:05.

of touch. I think it is interesting, they have identified their elections

:04:06.:04:10.

are won or lost by this particular demo graphic of the C 1, and C .

:04:11.:04:19.

Mrs Thatcher got them by the shed load, Tony Blair got them. His

:04:20.:04:24.

failure in 2010 is the reason David Cameron didn't win an overall

:04:25.:04:30.

majority. I'm disappointed with the ladder. You should have a hammer or

:04:31.:04:34.

sickle! The Conservatives have a terrible brand problem. You heard

:04:35.:04:39.

them explaining why they did badly in the Wythenshawe by-election,

:04:40.:04:43.

saying there's quite a large council estate there In 1961, I think the

:04:44.:04:47.

Conservatives won a by-election back then, they were getting through to

:04:48.:04:53.

those sort of voters. There is not a single Conservative councillor in

:04:54.:04:56.

Manchester. They have this terrible problem. You're right for them to

:04:57.:05:03.

pick up on the five Etonians writing their manifesto. David Cameron sir

:05:04.:05:08.

rounding himself with his own. He doesn't have to do that. I seas

:05:09.:05:16.

things like isn't Robert Halpen great. He decides and has his own.

:05:17.:05:24.

He has some more slightly common people from St Paul's! One of the

:05:25.:05:28.

ways the Conservatives hoped to broaden their appeal is the tougher

:05:29.:05:33.

line on immigration. We learned net immigration is rising substantially.

:05:34.:05:39.

Back up over 200,000. Nigel Farage of UKIP wrapped up the rhetoric In

:05:40.:05:45.

scores of our cities and market towns, this country, in a short

:05:46.:05:55.

space of time, has become N'Zonzi rkable whether it is --

:05:56.:06:01.

unrecognisable. Whether it is the impact on local schools and

:06:02.:06:07.

hospitals. In many parts of England you don't hear English spoken, this

:06:08.:06:11.

is not the kind of the community we want to leave to our children and

:06:12.:06:17.

grandchildren. Helen, maybe people, I assume, will love the sentiments.

:06:18.:06:23.

Others will say, this is getting... It is going down a dangerous road.

:06:24.:06:30.

Nigel Farage's wife is German and he shares a flat with Godfully Bloom,

:06:31.:06:37.

nobody knows what he's saying half of the time. You can handle the

:06:38.:06:44.

letters from Yorkshire. Alex Salmond does not make his case on Scotland

:06:45.:06:54.

for the Scottish. Let's put aside whether the policy's right or wrong.

:06:55.:07:01.

How bad, by the Tories own lights, is the fact the net figure for

:07:02.:07:08.

immigration went up 60,000? It looks really bad. If I was a Tory

:07:09.:07:13.

strategist, I'd be philosophical about it. Immigration, even if they

:07:14.:07:18.

were meeting the target, I don't think the public would believe it.

:07:19.:07:23.

It is like crime a few years ago, the crime rates had been declining

:07:24.:07:28.

for the best part of 20 years but the fear of crime remains high.

:07:29.:07:34.

There's such a degree of cynicism that regardless of your

:07:35.:07:38.

administrative record in Government, the public will remain hostile to

:07:39.:07:43.

you. This is where Nigel Farage can be potent. He said it is not about

:07:44.:07:47.

numbers. It is about community. It is about people seeing their

:07:48.:07:55.

communities change. And in the Sunday Telegraph, it was said this

:07:56.:07:59.

isn't a dog whistle, a it is a meaty bone for a bull terrier. The problem

:08:00.:08:03.

for the Government on these figures is we know why the net migration

:08:04.:08:08.

figures are not looking good. They got down the non-EU figures but the

:08:09.:08:13.

EU figures are going up. From Italy and Spain as their economies tanked,

:08:14.:08:19.

people came here. If he hadn't made such a big deal of the numbers, the

:08:20.:08:24.

Tories, I mean, you could present this as a huge success story. If you

:08:25.:08:26.

believe immigration was good for the country. You would say it doesn t

:08:27.:08:31.

matter what Labour says, the best and the brightest young people from

:08:32.:08:34.

all over Europe are voting with their feet to come to Britain. But

:08:35.:08:39.

you never hear that case being made and certainly not by Labour. They

:08:40.:08:44.

acknowledge although immigration is best in the abstract for the

:08:45.:08:47.

economy, people don't feel it in their daily lives. There's a huge

:08:48.:08:52.

vacuum for the case where immigration should be in our public

:08:53.:08:56.

life. I remember a time when the economy was in such decline there

:08:57.:09:01.

was a rush to the door in the sixties and seventies. Now we are

:09:02.:09:06.

claiming our economy's doing better than any of the other major

:09:07.:09:11.

economies bar Germany, people want to join in our success. London was a

:09:12.:09:15.

declining city until the mid-eighties. Theresa May cannot be

:09:16.:09:23.

honest. She was proposing a cap on immigration. Not going to happen.

:09:24.:09:27.

Today she is saying maybe people from poorer member states cannot

:09:28.:09:33.

come in until their economies grow. That's future accession states.

:09:34.:09:37.

That's Turkey in ten years' time It is causing divisions with the

:09:38.:09:41.

coalition. She's bashing Vince Cable. You often see Liberal

:09:42.:09:46.

Democrats bashing the Tories. You don't often see a Tory minister bash

:09:47.:09:50.

Vince Cable. She does on the immigration figures. He thought they

:09:51.:09:54.

were good news. Last week, Vince responded to the news by saying it

:09:55.:10:00.

was a policy he was happy for the gift to flunk. The problem was going

:10:01.:10:04.

for a cap. There are six moving parts. UK citizens leaving, coming

:10:05.:10:09.

back. EU citizens leaving and coming back and then third party nationals.

:10:10.:10:16.

And students coming to study. Of course. You only have control over

:10:17.:10:23.

the EU citizens. Have you to clamp down on ace strayian, Chinese or

:10:24.:10:31.

American graduates. They should have gone for the Australian points

:10:32.:10:39.

system. I don't have a pure cap on numbers just background etc. Tim

:10:40.:10:47.

Farran said in the European election either vogue Liberal Democrat or

:10:48.:10:50.

UKIP. He turned that to his advantage. It is hopeful but he s

:10:51.:10:55.

come up with a way to spin this Labour has his special conference.

:10:56.:11:05.

Was it or was it not an event? Not sure it was the biggest moment in

:11:06.:11:11.

the party since 1918. But things fell apart in the special conference

:11:12.:11:17.

in 1981. 2004 got another special conference. Who's on board? David

:11:18.:11:21.

Owen who founded the gang of four. He's not joined but he's given them

:11:22.:11:26.

money. He's not going to sit with them in the Lord's. He's given

:11:27.:11:31.

money. They lost the gang of four. Back comes David Owen. Not historic?

:11:32.:11:38.

Why would he want it to be more significant than it was. There's a

:11:39.:11:43.

tendency to see him taking the fight to his party. Why would he want

:11:44.:11:48.

that? The fact it has not pleased Grant Shapps is not a test to see

:11:49.:11:55.

whether this has worked. It has been described as an historic moment and

:11:56.:12:06.

incremental of what John did. The trade union block voters disappeared

:12:07.:12:11.

a long time ago. They still have 50% of the vote. But 2,000 of union

:12:12.:12:19.

members voting for this guy has gone. It is a reform from 20 years

:12:20.:12:24.

ago. Welcome but not historic. Ed Miliband's stored up trouble. Len

:12:25.:12:29.

McCluskey wants a million new homes and answered to the benefit caps is

:12:30.:12:34.

not reconcilable with the deficit reduction strategy. In five years'

:12:35.:12:39.

time if there is a Labour Government it becomes very difficult. We should

:12:40.:12:44.

keep an eye on it? Always. Labour Party process is never ending.

:12:45.:12:48.

Unlike this programme. That's all from us today. Continuing reports of

:12:49.:12:55.

events in the Ukraine on the BBC News Channel. There's no Daily

:12:56.:12:59.

Politics tomorrow because of cover Arg of the Nelson Mandela memorial

:13:00.:13:04.

service at Westminster Abbey on BBC Two live. We'll be back on the Daily

:13:05.:13:10.

Politics on Tuesday at midday. We'll be back here next week with the Work

:13:11.:13:15.

and Pensions Secretary, Ian Smith. If it is Sunday, it is the Sunday

:13:16.:13:18.

Politics.

:13:19.:13:36.

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