Browse content similar to 13/04/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Aternoon folks, and welcome to the Sunday Politics. As MPs head off for | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
their Easter break, campaigning for the European elections in six weeks' | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
time gets underway. In a Sunday Politics special, we'll debate the | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
issues at stake on May 22nd with senior party figures from the | :00:46. | :00:47. | |
Conservatives, Labour, Liberal Democrats, and UKIP. And as ever | :00:48. | :00:57. | |
we'll be discussing the week ahead with our panel of top political | :00:58. | :00:59. | |
commentators. And in the East Midlands: Protestors | :01:00. | :01:08. | |
gather in Nottinghamshire to fight any moves to begin fracking here. | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
And, feeling hard up? New figures say we've had the biggest fall in | :01:13. | :01:14. | |
wages in the newspapers which some claim are | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
politically slanted and not impartial about informing people of | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
local services. So all that to come between now and | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
quarter to four and for the next thirty minutes or so we'll be | :01:28. | :01:29. | |
debating the European elections. Here in the studio we have Syed | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
Kamall, leader of the Conservatives in the European Parliament, Richard | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
Howitt, chair of the Labour group of MEPs, Sarah Ludford, deputy leader | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
of the Lib Dems in Europe, and Patrick O'Flynn, UKIP's director of | :01:39. | :01:48. | |
communications. Welcome to you all. In a moment, all four will give us | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
their opening pitch for the elections. A little earlier they | :01:52. | :02:01. | |
drew lots to decide who'll go first. And that privilege goes to Syed. | :02:02. | :02:03. | |
Before that, though, here's a quick reminder of what all the fuss is | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
about. The vote to choose members of the | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
European Parliament takes place on Thursday the 22nd of May. The same | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
day as local elections are held in England and Northern Ireland. The UK | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
sends 73 England and Northern Ireland. The UK | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
sends NTP is to Brussels. And the vote is a form of proportional | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
representation. In total, there are 751 MEPs from the 28 member states. | :02:29. | :02:36. | |
What do they do all day? The European Parliament's power has | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
grown. A vet of the EU commissioners and they can amend, approve or | :02:41. | :02:43. | |
reject nearly all EU legislation and the EU budget. Some laws MEPs have | :02:44. | :02:50. | |
been responsible for include price caps on mobile phone chargers, | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
banking regulation and cover food regulation two -- labelling. | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
Syed Kamall, you have 30 seconds. Europe cannot go on as it is. Europe | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
needs to change. And our relationship with Europe needs to | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
change. Only the Conservatives have a plan to deliver that change and of | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
the British people and in-out referendum. Labour and the Lib Dems | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
will not and UKIP simply cannot. Only the Conservatives will offer | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
the three yards, with Conservative MEPs working alongside a | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
conservative Prime Minister. For, really is and above all a | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
referendum. Sarah Ludford is next. Your choice is simple. If you think | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
Britain is better off in Europe, vote for the Liberal Democrats. The | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
Lib Dems are the only party of Ian, fighting to keep Britain in Europe | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
and in work. There is nothing patriotic about UKIP's desire to | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
pull-out. That is playing Russian roulette with Britain's economy and | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
jobs. The Conservatives are flirting with exit and Labour lacks the | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
courage to speak up. Thought Liberal Democrat on May the 22nd to say in | :04:02. | :04:08. | |
Europe for jobs and security. Sarah Ludford. Next, Richard Howitt from | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
Labour. The European elections are about who represents you. They are | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
not a referendum on a referendum. Labour MEPs believe in putting jobs | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
and growth first. A guarantee to help young people into work, | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
reforming energy markets so that bills are brought down for good. | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
Labour believes in reform in Europe, but within. It is David Cameron who | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
is risking your job and Britain's prosperity because of divisions in | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
his own party. Labour MEPs put British interests first. Our fourth | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
opening statement from Patrick O'Flynn. The EU is old hat. It is a | :04:45. | :04:52. | |
declining regional trade bloc in an era of global trade. It is a | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
20th-century political project designed to prevent conflict in | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
Europe that is now reawakening old hostilities. It is an attempt to | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
force on the European people European this as their primary | :05:05. | :05:12. | |
collective identity. It has hollowed out British democracy and now we do | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
not even control our own borders. That is why you should vote UKIP. | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
That is the opening statements. Let's get on with the debate. Why | :05:23. | :05:24. | |
should people vote in the selections? If you vote UKIP, we can | :05:25. | :05:31. | |
deliver an earthquake that will rock the foundations of British politics | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
and the European political class. We can send a signal to Europe that | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
Britain has had enough, that Britain wants to retain its nation state | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
status and regain political power and the ability to forge trading | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
deals across the world. Britain leading Europe to freedom twice in | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
the last century through bloodshed. We feel that a UKIP win in those | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
elections could help Britain set an example to lead European nation | :06:00. | :06:06. | |
states back to free assembly again. Syed Kamall, isn't it the case that | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
many Tory voters will vote you clip to keep you honest, to keep your | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
feet to the fire? Whatever you think of the European Parliament or the | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
EU, the fact is that the European Parliament as equal power with the | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
28 governments of the EU. When David Cameron delivered the first cut to | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
the EU budget, the first ever cut, he needed a strong team of | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
Conservative MEPs working alongside him. But many of your supporters | :06:33. | :06:39. | |
will vote for UKIP for the reasons I gave. Many will vote Liberal | :06:40. | :06:48. | |
Democrat. Not very many. Many of our supporters will vote for us because | :06:49. | :06:50. | |
we are the only party trying to change the EU and offer reform. We | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
have offered renegotiation and a referendum. And how would you vote | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
in such a referendum? We have no idea whether he would vote yes or | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
no. Let him answer. I will answer that question. If the EU continues | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
on this road, towards a United States of Europe, and if there was | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
no change at the time of the referendum, then I would probably | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
vote to leave. You have no confidence in David Cameron? We | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
Javier Culson opportunity to read negotiate our relationship with | :07:24. | :07:25. | |
Europe and the Conservatives are at the forefront of that agenda. David | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
Cameron have not given a list of demands. He said that if things do | :07:30. | :07:37. | |
not change, he will probably vote to leave, is that right? If at the time | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
of the referendum, things had not changed, I would vote to leave and | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
we have a golden opportunity to perform the agenda. Richard, the | :07:47. | :07:53. | |
last time the British people had a say on this was over 40 years ago. | :07:54. | :08:01. | |
Under a Labour government. Which was deeply divided on the issue. And | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
that was a say on the common market. Today's EU is a very different | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
animal from the common market. Why can we not, under another Labour | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
government, have another vote? First of all, we want it to be more than a | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
free trading area. We make no apologies about that. But in the | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
elections because this is half of Britain's exports and investment. If | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
you care about your job and business, you cannot hear from the | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
party of government that they probably want you to leave because | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
the CBI, the engineering employees in Federation and the chimp of | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
commerce, 80% of them say it is necessary to stay in. So why not | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
give us a vote? When David Cameron says he wants to repatriate social | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
powers, he means takeaway maternity rights and holidays. If the case is | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
so strong, why not give us an in-out vote? David Miliband has said that | :08:58. | :09:04. | |
there will be a referendum if there was a proposal to change powers. Why | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
wait? This is based on a series of reforms. Labour has a set of | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
reforms. David Cameron is silent about what they would be. That is | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
because he knows that if he put them forward, they would either be | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
unsatisfactory to his Eurosceptic backbenchers and he would be out of | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
a job, or they would be unacceptable to European leaders. Why is your | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
leader missing in action? Ed Miliband is unable to say even the | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
positive things that you are saying. He has run away from the argument. | :09:36. | :09:42. | |
He actually said there would not be a referendum in his time. | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
For a conservative to say they will have a referendum but not give the | :09:47. | :09:54. | |
reforms, it is a mistake. Nick Clegg gave Nigel Farage a huge opportunity | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
in that debate. He said that the Eurosceptic view was to leave | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
Britain like Billy no mates. I can say that he is the best qualified | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
person to say that. Sarah Ludford, you have said that lots of people | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
are going to vote Lib Dem but that is not what the polls are saying. | :10:15. | :10:17. | |
You are 7% in two polls this morning. Eclectic's decision to | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
champion Europe has been a disaster for you. You face wet out. We swayed | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
a lot of people our way with Nick Clegg's debate. Where is the | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
evidence? We are the only party that is completely united, saying that we | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
are wanting to stay in. It is essential because formally and jobs | :10:39. | :10:40. | |
are supported by our trade with the EU. Linked to the EU. We are finding | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
a lot of moderate conservative voters are actually fed up with the | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
Tories being split and divided all over the place. Syed Kamall saying | :10:51. | :10:59. | |
that we might vote in rout. -- in or out. We are consistent. A poll in | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
London showed that 18% would vote for us. I am delighted about that. | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
London is not the whole country, it may surprise you. We need to move on | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
to immigration, an important issue. We are a member of the EU and the | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
rules say that with a few caveats, our fellow EU citizens are free to | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
come here if they want. Why can we not just accept that? Britain has a | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
proud record when it comes to immigration. We have been open to | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
people across the world for centuries. But we welcome people who | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
come to our country to contribute to pay taxes and two wards are a | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
society positively. But there are three real concerns that we have to | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
address. The first one is numbers, and secondly people who may come | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
here not to work but for benefits, and thirdly, getting a hang of the | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
numbers. I think it is shameful that only this week the office for | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
National said that they did not collect sufficient figures under a | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
Labour government. 350,000 extra people came in and they did not | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
count the numbers. That is the size of a city like Cardiff. That is | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
shameful. 350,000 came from all over the place. Do you accept the free | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
movement of peoples within the EU? I accept and am open to people who | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
want to come here and contribute. In the same way... Do you accept the | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
free movement of peoples within the EU? In our manifesto, we have said | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
it is an issue for reform. We have to make sure that people are coming | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
here to work and contribute positively, not simply to come here | :12:36. | :12:43. | |
and take advantage of the system. I will tell you what else is | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
shameful. What is shameful is David Cameron making a pledge to the | :12:47. | :12:49. | |
British people on an issue that they really care about, to bring net | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
immigration down to the tens of thousands a year, having no means of | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
fulfilling that pledge. And we see now it is back up to 212,000 a year | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
because we have no volume control and no quality control from | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
immigration from our neighbours. And that is a disgrace. How could UKIP | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
address that issue? Because we would leave the EU. How? Tell me how. You | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
do not have a single member of Parliament. He will not get a single | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
member of Parliament. How are you... ? TUC are hoping to get an | :13:21. | :13:30. | |
MEP. What do you say? -- he is here today hoping to get an MEP. All of | :13:31. | :13:40. | |
-- almost 2 million Brits live and work in the rest of the EU. Is that | :13:41. | :13:47. | |
worth having? The majority are wealthy, retired people. Why do not | :13:48. | :13:54. | |
object to bilateral agreements with countries with similar living | :13:55. | :13:56. | |
standards to us. France, the Netherlands, that works fine. But | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
these three people want Turkey to join the EU, 75 Na Li and people | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
running our country, only 10% of which... Syed Kamall is Michael year | :14:05. | :14:17. | |
to say whether they are in favour of free movement for work, not for | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
benefits... That is what I'm saying. You said you were unable to | :14:21. | :14:29. | |
be clear. That leaves 2 million British people absolutely unsure as | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
to whether they would have a right to continue to live in other | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
countries. It is a two-way street. You are putting those people in a | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
state of uncertainty. EU migrants have been good for the British | :14:41. | :14:42. | |
economy and contribute far more than they take out in services and | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
benefits. One in seven businesses were founded in -- by migrants. And | :14:47. | :14:53. | |
they cannot just turn up and claim benefits. The coalition government | :14:54. | :15:00. | |
has legislated to make sure that they cannot claim for three months. | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
They will not be able to claim for more than six months. Richard | :15:05. | :15:12. | |
Howitt, Jack Straw said it was "A spectacular mistake for Labour to | :15:13. | :15:19. | |
allow EU migrants from Poland and Hungary to work in the UK from | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
2004." Why should we trust a party that makes spectacular mistakes and | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
hasn't apologised for it? We accept it is a mistake and I apologise. We | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
make a firm commitment for new EU states we will put down transitional | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
controls. When I listen to the Conservatives and UKIP trying to | :15:38. | :15:40. | |
re-write history, saying immigration was out of control, uncontrolled, | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
open door, we hear it over and over again. It is not true. Anyone who | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
was around at the time... Come on, Richard. Hold on, you undercounted | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
by 350,000. You were letting 2 million in over the years, an | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
under-counted by 350,000 people you didn't know came in. You should have | :16:02. | :16:08. | |
tightened the benefit rules. The Conservative MEP today has, in four | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
years in government in Britain, is trying it blame the previous Labour | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
Government over the fact they won't count people in or people out. | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
Yvette Cooper - it is not easy for people to come to the country and | :16:24. | :16:30. | |
benefits are changing, changing the habitual residence test and we are | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
going to say that migrants can't come and claim child benefit if | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
their children are outside the country. Labour a has shown they | :16:40. | :16:42. | |
have listened to concerns but we say it is a stronger, better, country | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
because it is diverse and multicultural snoo.d this is fantasy | :16:48. | :16:50. | |
politics from all the Peters. They are committed to a system with no | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
volume control and no quality control. You talk about benefits as | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
if it is only out of work benefits. In work benefits cost a lot of money | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
for the British taxpayer. Big businesses bring in minimum wage | :17:05. | :17:12. | |
workers. It is ?5,000 per perschool place What are you going to do? Have | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
all the pensioners come back to Britain? How will will you fund the | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
health care? Do you really think Spain and pour tu ghal their current | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
situation, are going to turn their backs on British property owners | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
with wealth? -- Portugal. They might not wanting pensioners to use their | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
health service. Pensioners often come back to Britain to use the | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
health service. You have shown it represents wealthy people's | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
interests. A second Conservative Party. Hang on a minute... Blue | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
collar wages were down. They want it character for the National Health | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
Service, have cuts that go farther and comprehensive education. This is | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
a debate on the wider politics between Conservatives and UKIP and | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
Labour will... You can't both talk time. UKIP - they haven't thought it | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
through, thousand they will have trade access in the EU, hasn't | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
thought how they will have trade deals that the Liberal Democrats | :18:14. | :18:16. | |
support, like with the United States: Would you have a cap on | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
non-EU immigrants? We are not in favour of a cap. No cap on either. | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
No. Well it is a target. It is a moving feast, as it were. Would you | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
have a limit on non-EU limits? We have limits on quality. We have | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
people who are skilled migrants coming in. Lip its? . By quality, | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
not by quantity. -- Limits. How do you do that? We need to move | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
on to foreign affairs. Should we pool more sovereignty to | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
give the European Union more clout in foreign and defence matters? I'm | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
Labour's defence and foreign affairs spokesperson. No we don't need to | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
pull more powers into Europe. As we undertake this live debate there are | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
guns being fired in Ukraine as we speak. Europe is facing, for the | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
first time, since the end of the Second World War, Armies crossing | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
national borders and floatening peace. Doesn't it -- threatening | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
peace. Doesn't it need to come together of the We don't need more | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
powers. We need political will. With Vladimir Putin, in my view, he has | :19:23. | :19:29. | |
-- we have fallen short in the sanctions. But it is Europe, not | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
Britain. Remember Putin calling Britain little England a small | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
island with no influence. Labour doesn't agree with that. But if | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
that's the mindset that allows someone like Vladimir Putin to send | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
troops across borders threatening peace, it is worrying. And when we | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
have, in UKIP a party that say they admire Putin and support his | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
policies, that is no recipe for how Europe should be wrong. I was | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
waiting for that. Let me ask him. We don't admire Putin as a leader... | :20:00. | :20:06. | |
Oh. No we don't. What Nigel Farage said, was he admired him as a | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
political operator. Testifies Franklin D Roosevelt who said a good | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
foreign policy was speaking softly but carrying a big stick. The EU | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
shouts its mouthed off while carrying a matchstick. It is fantasy | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
that you wiebl it stand up to Putin over the Ukraine. -- that you would | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
be able to stand up. Do you admire what Putin is doing in the Ukraine? | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
No. What matters in foreign policy is the outcould. We have a terrible | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
outcome in the Ukraine, like Syria, and Georgia... What would UKIP do? | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
What u skip would do, would be to keep our people safe -- UKIP. | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
How? And not commit our Foreign Office and troops Foreign wars. | :20:49. | :20:55. | |
Patrick O'Flynn. You brought up this issue of foreign wars. Now Nigel | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
Farage said in previous debates that Britain should leave the EU because, | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
"We have had enough of endless foreign wars." Which wars has the EU | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
taken us into? The EU has ban very important factor in the push towards | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
trying to get military intervention in Syria, for example. What wars has | :21:14. | :21:23. | |
the etch U taken us into it -- EU. Fortunately the EU doesn't have its | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
own army yet. It has wanted to sign up to an expansionist agenda. Did it | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
want Iraq? No, that was Labour. UKIP opposed Iraq, so did most of the | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
mainline Europeans. Germany was against Syria and Libya. No EU | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
policy. We had an Anglo French deal on Syria. A by lateral deal. A | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
European dimension. No, buy lateral. We have a European Union that wants | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
to expand ever-more into other people's spheres of influence. If we | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
are going to stand up to what Putin is do, which obviously Nigel Farage | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
has no intentions of doing, you have to get your act together on economic | :22:08. | :22:10. | |
sanctions and diplomatic force and in trade matters, in supporting | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
eastern European countries. Sayeria, who and whose army? And NATO and | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
working transatlanticically, is important through NATO. I will come | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
to you in a moment. Nick Clegg said that the idea of an EU Army was, "A | :22:26. | :22:32. | |
dangerous fantasy that is simply not true ""Why then, are we already | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
working on etch U-owned and controlled drones -- EU-owned and | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
the President of the European Parliament has said that the | :22:41. | :22:47. | |
majority of MEPs want the EU to have "deployable troops." He is not | :22:48. | :22:50. | |
speaking for me or Liberal Democrats. The EU does not and will | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
not have an army. Our defence is mainly shaped through NATO. He is | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
President of the Parliament What we must do is to get equipment which | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
can operate together. We waste an awful lot of our spending in Europe | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
because we duplicate equipment. We don't get the bang for our bucks | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
that we should. It is a useful role for the EU, to get equipment working | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
together. That doesn't make sense. You say military equipment, a NATO | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
job. No, the EU, there is a kind of dimension of the EU members of NATO, | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
in working together on a common quument o o so they can talk to each | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
other -- on common equipment, so they can talk to each other. The EU | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
has a role but not an army. So a European defence agency, that helps | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
our defence industries and those jobs are extremely important and | :23:40. | :23:42. | |
would be threatened if the Conservatives and UKIP took us out | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
of Europe but it is 100 years since the start of the fist world war. | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
Remember that Europe was set up to try to get a secure peace within | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
Europe T succeeded. Now look on Ukraine but also on the southern | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
borders to the Arab Spring countries in North Africa. It is more | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
important than ever that we work to keep keep peace and stability on our | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
borders. Can I say to Syed and the Conservative MEPs. You talk about | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
the three Rs, I have a fourth, retreat. If you take us out of the | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
European Union, it will be the worse retreat by Britain since Gallipoli. | :24:18. | :24:24. | |
Let him answer If he wants answers -- the British Parliament is the | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
right place with a British Foreign Secretary to decide our foreign | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
policy. You say that, but can I quote David Cameron, this is germain | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
to what you are saying, David Cameron said "There is no doubt that | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
we are more powerful than Washington, Beijing and Delhi, | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
because we are a powerful player in the European Union." Do you agree? | :24:47. | :24:49. | |
He is saying that there are times when it comes to international | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
foreign affairs when you have to cooperate with partners. Often they | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
are EU partners but often they are not. The problem we have... | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
Washington have made it very clear that it wants Britain to talk | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
through Brussels. No, not at all. Talk through the French and | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
Italians, come on, wake up? Through the EU collective. I'm vice chair of | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
the EU delegation. I hear it from the American counterparts. They want | :25:18. | :25:20. | |
the EU to get itself together and not least on Ukraine. Why should our | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
sovereignty be at the behest of... ? I want to hear from Syed calm | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
amplgts the British Parliament is the right place to decide our | :25:30. | :25:32. | |
foreign poll sinchts sometimes we work with our European partners, | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
sometimes we work with our non-European partners. It is our | :25:38. | :25:40. | |
choice to pull sovereign trito work together. G, we move on to our foirt | :25:41. | :25:47. | |
area. We hear a lot in this country about MPs expenses. Snted the real | :25:48. | :25:54. | |
scan dalt MEPs gravy train. -- isn't the real scandal, the MEPs gravy | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
train? You all have your snouts? The trough? I don't think so. There is | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
transpancy. The way we use our expenses is online and anyone can | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
ask to examine those. We have actually voted to reform MEPs' | :26:11. | :26:16. | |
allowances. We regularly vote but unfortunately the majority in | :26:17. | :26:19. | |
Parliament don't. Have you voted to cut them? Yes. By how much? About | :26:20. | :26:26. | |
5%. A 5% We hoped to have economies I never fly except across the | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
Atlantic. Difficult to do it any other way. I didn't swim. | :26:31. | :26:38. | |
But we voted for economy flutes. We voted for European Parliament policy | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
of transparency which other groups haven't. UKIP don't turn up to vote. | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
They don't earn their salaries. Dhoent do anything. They should hand | :26:48. | :26:53. | |
their salaries and allowances back. You can't ause UKIP of being on the | :26:54. | :26:56. | |
gravy train and the other that we don't claim our attendance allowance | :26:57. | :27:02. | |
because our MEPs are not there. Your attendance allowance is if you are | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
there, you are saying we don't turn up You are in the building and claim | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
the allowances. You are not an MEP, UKIP are so ashamed of what their | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
MEPs have done in Brussels, they didn't field a sitting MEP for | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
today's debate. I think each party decides who it wishes to field. I | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
have the honour of being the UKIP representative. I would say by going | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
in the past few weeks, xeeming to me saying - we are sick of the others. | :27:30. | :27:36. | |
-- people saying to me. : We are quite excited. Can I ask Patrick | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
O'Flynn. He says he touched a chord and his party is strong in the polls | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
today, between 18% and 20%. Haven't you also struck a chord with hip | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
crasscy. Two of your MEPs were jailed for expenses and benefits' | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
fraud. Two more asked to pay back ?37,000 for using European funds. | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
Nigel Farage has boosted about getting ?2 million in expenses and | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
he went on to employ his wife as a secretarial allowance after telling | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
other members not to People who do wrong and break the law, go to ja. I | :28:09. | :28:15. | |
have no time. -- go to jail. People who spend money they are not | :28:16. | :28:18. | |
entitled to should pay it back and that's right. But what UKIP does and | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
the good UKIP MEPs do, is use the allowances they are given to pursue | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
the political agenda they put up when elected which is to get Britain | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
out of this superstate. Instead of using it for parliamentary work. | :28:31. | :28:37. | |
Very interesting. Richard Howitt. We were the first British political | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
party to have independent audits of our MEPs' expenses, from 1990, way | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
before the expenses crisis blew up. The Maria Miller scandal has of | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
course hit David Cameron and the Conservative Party hard as it should | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
do. But you are right, even in my own region you have UKIP candidates | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
and councillors who have been charged with fraudulently filling | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
out election papers and other shot lifting. Another independent inquiry | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
found he made racist comments. We had a European candidate last week | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
in Hertfordshire who got a parking ticket from the police and called | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
the police fascists. These people aren't here. | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
I'll let you have a quick reply. We can bring up parochial cases. Let | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
him answer. Not so long ago a Liberal Democrat councillor was sent | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
down for firebombing, I don't say they are a bunch of arsonists, but | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
now I think, Nick Clegg might have burnt some cactuses, once. I'm glad | :29:37. | :29:43. | |
you pronounced that word carefully. Syed Kemal, the EU's auditors, they | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
are strongly critical of the EU's financials saying "Errors permist in | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
all main spending areas", the financials are poorly managed. It is | :29:55. | :30:00. | |
a shambles And that's something that all parties agree on. As we agree on | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
expenses, the British parties are at the forefront of transpancy. Every | :30:07. | :30:09. | |
year when we vote for the discharge of the budget, the Conservatives | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
also vote for it but we don't get enough MEPs from other countries to | :30:14. | :30:16. | |
investigate in favour. The Liberal Democrats have put forward to make | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
each Finance Minister, George Osborne and his counterpart to sign | :30:20. | :30:25. | |
a declaration to say all EU money is properly spent in my country. | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
Funnily enough they don't want to do that but I look forward to you | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
confirming that George Osborne will sign it. All the time we hear it is | :30:34. | :30:39. | |
about the money we pay in, about ?150 per family per year. What about | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
the money that comes back? ?1. 5 billion that comes to Britain's | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
regions because of being in Europe. I myself helped to negotiate a fund | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
to help Britain's food banks to ensure so. Poorest and most | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
destitute people... Isn't it our money that went there first. Can I | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
tell you the Conservative-led Government have blocked us from | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
claiming that money. If you want to have the clearest choice at these | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
European elections, it is between... Tell us why. It affects our rebate. | :31:08. | :31:18. | |
Tony Blair gave away our rebate. He is quite right. Lib Dems fought to | :31:19. | :31:25. | |
make sure that we apply for money to help with flooding. That is what the | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
Tories were blocking. If you want the clearest example at the European | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
elections, the Conservative Party and MEPs blocked the cap on bankers | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
bonuses, and then blocked a Labour victory to get money for free | :31:39. | :31:44. | |
banks. We need to move on to the future. It is important and people | :31:45. | :31:51. | |
are watching. The EU's Justice Minister says that we need to build | :31:52. | :31:54. | |
a United States of Europe with the commission as its government. Is she | :31:55. | :32:01. | |
right? Not at all. But the future, if we take the next ten years, | :32:02. | :32:07. | |
thinks about climate change and the fact that we are not going to hit of | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
the two degrees target. Europe has led and needs to lead towards | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
getting a new sustainable world. It is the political will to use these | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
powers, so she is wrong. It is about the threats from abroad. Labour | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
reforms like getting a commissioner for growth and rebalancing the | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
budget, reforming the common agricultural policy, all of those | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
things will need to happen to make Europe more democratic and open. But | :32:32. | :32:38. | |
against the rise of Brazil and China... We do not need more | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
treaties and powers. We need more action with more Labour MEPs. Sarah | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
Ludford, you would sign up to that? No. Unless they do not think that | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
should concentrate on institutional matters. What we need to do is | :32:54. | :32:59. | |
concentrate on making Europe progrowth and competitive and create | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
more jobs in a competitive world. We need more trade deals to open up our | :33:04. | :33:09. | |
exports, we need to streamline the EU. We need less red tape and | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
Liberal Democrats have done a lot on that. We need better scrutiny of EU | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
legislation at West Munster because the national parties... More powers | :33:19. | :33:26. | |
or less for the EU government? In some areas, I would like to see it | :33:27. | :33:35. | |
slimmed down. Including, I am not sure whether the EU should be | :33:36. | :33:38. | |
funding food banks. I think that is a national responsibility. Dearie | :33:39. | :33:44. | |
me. The EU have to concentrate on the economy and climate change. This | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
is the coalition talking. If we want to fritter away political capital on | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
things which are interfering in national matters, then we do not | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
have the support to tackle those big challenges. Would you still want to | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
join the Euro one-day? Now is not a good idea. We wanted the Eurozone to | :34:03. | :34:11. | |
still be sound, which is why... Did not ask you that. Do you want to | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
join the Euro one-day? If it is a success and it did the economy. Now | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
is not the time but in principle, the idea of a single currency has | :34:20. | :34:27. | |
advantages. That was a yes. We are not ruling it out for ever but not | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
in the foreseeable future. It is not on the horizon. What would our | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
relationship be with Europe in the future if UKIP got its way and we | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
left? We would be trading partners with Europe and we would seek | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
partnership in specific serious. I'd tell you what, can I just say... | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
Would we be Norway? We would be stronger than Norway because we are | :34:51. | :34:53. | |
the biggest export market in the Eurozone. We can negotiate a bespoke | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
trading agreement reflecting our enormous importance. Not on | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
services, which make up 80% of the economy. We are the biggest export | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
market in the Eurozone. Our biggest exports are services and they would | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
have to agree to free trade and services. They still have not. Can I | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
read you something? Let me read you something. There would be a free | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
trade agreement in place the day after our exit. Germany would demand | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
no less. Who said that? Not somebody from UKIP, but Digby Jones. Mr | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
business. He is talking about goods, not services. Norway has that | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
and they have no say. You would have to accept the EU rules without any | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
say. No MEPs are commissioners. Let me give you another. Enough. One is | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
enough. Syed Kamall, is it not looking forward pretty much Mission: | :35:48. | :35:54. | |
Impossible for Mr Cameron to get anything like the repatriations of | :35:55. | :36:01. | |
powers that would satisfy your irreconcilables? My father was a bus | :36:02. | :36:08. | |
driver in the 50s and one of the reasons I am here today is because | :36:09. | :36:11. | |
he told me that you can achieve anything if you work hard. He said | :36:12. | :36:14. | |
to me, do not listen to the doubters. When people tell you that | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
something cannot be done, it is a sign of their limitations, not | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
yours. They said that we could not pull Britain out of the bailout | :36:23. | :36:25. | |
mechanism but we did it. He said we could not be to a -- veto European | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
treaty and we did that. They said we would never cut the budget and we | :36:31. | :36:36. | |
did that. The first ever. But overall, we are paying more into the | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
European budget. And they are not sticking to it. More, not less. They | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
say that we cannot achieve reform but we have achieved reform and we | :36:46. | :36:48. | |
are at the forefront of that. Science's father came to Britain | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
because Britain was open and looking outward. What the Conservatives now | :36:54. | :37:04. | |
have, with leaderless Cameron, is an inward looking attitude. They are | :37:05. | :37:10. | |
allowing the rise of UKIP. They are putting so much at risk. People | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
should vote Labour. We are going to have to stop now. No point talking | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
because we are about to finish. I think you all for a spirited debate. | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
I'm sure Nigel Fries and Mr Clegg will have learned a lot about how to | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
debate. -- Nigel Farage. It's just gone 3pm, and you're | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
leave us now for Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up here in twenty | :37:35. | :37:35. | |
In the East Midlands: As protestors set up camp, could the fracking | :37:36. | :37:51. | |
bonanza be about to start? We'll hear from the boss of a drilling | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
company with plans for our region and the people determined to stop | :37:56. | :38:02. | |
him. How are you going to regulate when you drill a mild downturn left | :38:03. | :38:08. | |
and trial `` drill down for another mile. | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
And are we worse off than the rest of the country? We'll be looking at | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
claims that wages have fallen further here than anywhere else in | :38:16. | :38:22. | |
the UK. The wages are up. I don't think wages are going up at all. In | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
some city regions, we are very lucky to have a job. | :38:29. | :38:31. | |
Hello, I'm Marie Ashby and my guests this week are Jessica Lee, the | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
Conservative MP for Erewash, and Jon Ashworth, the Labour MP for | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
Leicester South. And first, it's been the political story of the week | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
and the East Midlands has had a big part to play. The resignation of the | :38:44. | :38:46. | |
Culture Secretary, Maria Miller, in yet another expenses row. The whole | :38:47. | :38:49. | |
process began with a formal complaint to Parliament from the | :38:50. | :38:52. | |
Bassetlaw MP, John Mann, who made strong demands for the Culture | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
Secretary to go. When she did, the subsequent reshuffle saw | :38:57. | :38:58. | |
Loughborough's Nicky Morgan promoted within the Treasury and given the | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
role of Women's Minister, which gives her a seat in the Cabinet. | :39:02. | :39:09. | |
Jessica Lee, what's been your reaction to the week's events? I | :39:10. | :39:20. | |
think the promotion of Nicky Morgan, who is a very talented MP, | :39:21. | :39:28. | |
and she will do a great job, is a positive outcome. Before John and I | :39:29. | :39:37. | |
were elected, the expenses scandal, I remember watching it and being | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
horrified. I do think it is going to take time for the public to trust | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
all additions again about this matter. You are stepping down at | :39:47. | :39:54. | |
this term of Parliament. Is this kind of hounding putting you off? | :39:55. | :40:05. | |
No. I enjoy being an MP but I really enjoyed the law and my background is | :40:06. | :40:14. | |
being a barrister. I really see my future in the law. It is a difficult | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
decision but I'm very lucky to have served a great community. I still | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
have another year so it will be business as usual. John, any | :40:26. | :40:33. | |
sympathy for Maria Miller? Not at all. The way in which she did her | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
apology to the House of Commons was quite frankly insulting. Then the | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
way in which people suggested it was because of her role in press | :40:44. | :40:46. | |
regulation was offensive. When people are really struggling at the | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
moment, to see this Cabinet Mr carrying on like this, it sticks in | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
peoples throats. David Cameron should have intervened sooner. | :40:55. | :41:01. | |
Protestors from all over the country are gathering in the East Midlands | :41:02. | :41:04. | |
to fight plans to carry out fracking. They've set up camp in | :41:05. | :41:07. | |
Nottinghamshire, convinced that the first application to start drilling | :41:08. | :41:10. | |
is only weeks away. Fracking's a controversial new technique to drill | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
deep underground. It uses high pressure water and chemicals to | :41:16. | :41:18. | |
release gas. Large parts of the East Midlands are said to be rich in | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
potential shale gas, with licences covering many parts of | :41:22. | :41:23. | |
Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire already granted. | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
In a moment, we'll be speaking to the Chief Operating Officer of a | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
company looking to carry out fracking here, but first, Helen | :41:32. | :41:34. | |
McCulloch's been to the protestors' camp near Retford to meet the people | :41:35. | :41:41. | |
keen to stop him. In a word in the north | :41:42. | :41:44. | |
Nottinghamshire a protest camp is growing. I came down from Scotland. | :41:45. | :41:55. | |
I heard they were setting up here. At the moment they are objecting to | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
extract methane gas from below the ground. But with this area petition | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
league `` potentially rich in Shields gas it could become the new | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
battle ground in the fight against fracking. The first application | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
could come as soon as the next two weeks. Protest is here are making | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
their plans. These companies make mistakes. They are using some | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
horrible chemicals and the operation will miss `` mess with everything. | :42:25. | :42:44. | |
This woman from the Green party is a regular visitor to the camp. She | :42:45. | :42:50. | |
shares of the campaigns `` she said `` she says their campaigns. This is | :42:51. | :42:57. | |
a joke. David Cameron says we are going to have robust measures but | :42:58. | :43:05. | |
that means lies. There is no regulation. Tell me how you're going | :43:06. | :43:12. | |
to regulate when you drill a mile down, turn left and drill down | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
another mile. The Green party is strongly opposed to fracturing and | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
wants to see the money spent instead on renewable energy. Solar energy | :43:23. | :43:28. | |
worldwide produces more jobs than the fossil fuels injury combined. | :43:29. | :43:31. | |
This is enormous. These are local jobs. Here in the East midlands we | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
could have more wind farms and we could invest in tidal power. We have | :43:38. | :43:43. | |
got the sea surrounding us so why are we not investing in technology | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
that already exists and which would produce a lot of local jobs? To | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
produce just 10% of the gas we need in this country, we are talking | :43:56. | :44:01. | |
about 300 wells every year for the next ten years. That is 3000 wells | :44:02. | :44:09. | |
drilled over ten years. But fracking companies have the backing of the | :44:10. | :44:12. | |
Prime Minister and are casting their eyes over the Prime Minister. `` | :44:13. | :44:18. | |
over the East Midlands. Well, if fracking does go ahead, it | :44:19. | :44:22. | |
looks like there'll be lots of protests along the way. Let's speak | :44:23. | :44:25. | |
to John Blaymires, the chief operation officer of IGas, which has | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
an exploration and development licence for the north of our region. | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
So John, first of all, where are you with your plans? We have licences in | :44:33. | :44:42. | |
the region and we actually operate already some 20 oil fields in the | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
area and these oilfields have been there for decades producing and | :44:48. | :44:57. | |
wells being drilled. This is not something new we are talking about. | :44:58. | :45:01. | |
There is a long history in the area of oil. But what about fracking? The | :45:02. | :45:09. | |
first thing that has to happen is we have to explore and establish the | :45:10. | :45:13. | |
presence of shale gas and ascertain whether it is economic clear track. | :45:14. | :45:20. | |
That will entail at some point having to get the gas to flow and | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
our expectation is that that will happen in 2015. What do you say to | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
those protesters who say that fracking is not safe? We need to | :45:31. | :45:39. | |
understand a few things. First of all, we are highly regulated. We are | :45:40. | :45:54. | |
a very highly regulated industry. Can you regulate a pipe that is | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
miles underground? The protesters say it is not possible. It is. The | :46:00. | :46:08. | |
health and safety executive and the environment agency and the local | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
planning officers and the local communities in which we operate | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
watchers and monitor us on a daily basis. Jessica Lee, parts of your | :46:16. | :46:21. | |
area in Derbyshire have the potential to produce this shale gas. | :46:22. | :46:25. | |
Would you like to see it in your area? There are no specific plans in | :46:26. | :46:34. | |
our area but people need reassurance and information. People need that | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
knowledge so they understand the process. That is really in Portland. | :46:40. | :46:47. | |
That is when MPs will have to take the lead. David Cameron has said | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
communities will get a share of the profits from any temp back in those | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
communities. There is a that make sense? They will get 1% of the | :46:57. | :47:09. | |
revenues and that can amount to several million pounds per site over | :47:10. | :47:15. | |
the life of that site. The government has also put in place | :47:16. | :47:31. | |
business rates. That will be a huge boon for the local communities. The | :47:32. | :47:37. | |
industry has undertaken to make those contributions to make sure the | :47:38. | :47:40. | |
communities will get some benefit from this. The whole idea behind | :47:41. | :47:45. | |
this is to ensure that wells the exchequer gets attacked the industry | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
will pay, the local communities will get a share of that to reflect the | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
fact they have this going on in their communities. Is that enough | :47:55. | :48:03. | |
for you? It is a reasonable suggestion that communities should | :48:04. | :48:06. | |
get some of those benefits but there are bigger questions. The regulatory | :48:07. | :48:17. | |
regime needs to be strengthened. People have concerns about the | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
chemicals used and everybody knows that these tremors have taken | :48:23. | :48:31. | |
place. Are we going to have tremors in the East midlands? As a | :48:32. | :48:36. | |
consequence of temp back, the answer would be no. `` fracking. Let's also | :48:37. | :48:48. | |
put into context, it has happened once before, but let's put it into | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
perspective. Professor Richard Davis in a report he issued preferred to | :48:54. | :48:59. | |
it as the equivalent of jumping off a stepladder so we have to put some | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
of this into some context. Particularly in the area, you are | :49:06. | :49:11. | |
looking at an industry that historically has had these kinds of | :49:12. | :49:21. | |
tremors on a regular basis. So we just need to get used to it then? I | :49:22. | :49:31. | |
am not quite sure that's the case. We should not frighten people until | :49:32. | :49:39. | |
we've got the facts. That is why the industry and representatives need to | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
be clear what the facts are. People need to be well informed. The point | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
about revenue going to the community is important but the most important | :49:50. | :49:57. | |
thing is information. We as an industry have an obligation and one | :49:58. | :50:05. | |
of our undertakings is about public engagement. It's about being | :50:06. | :50:10. | |
transparent. We have to build the trust of the local communities in | :50:11. | :50:17. | |
which we work. That is essential. And that could happen in 2015. Are | :50:18. | :50:24. | |
you for it or against it? I figure need to know more. We have a problem | :50:25. | :50:30. | |
with energy supply in this country so gas will have to be part of that. | :50:31. | :50:35. | |
I personally think Cole should be part of it and I hope the government | :50:36. | :50:42. | |
sorts out the coal mines. I think there is a role for gas but a lot of | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
people in my constituency have raised concerns with me about the | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
regulatory regime and whether this is environmentally safe. What you | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
think about the protests we have seen? First of all, everyone is | :50:57. | :51:12. | |
entitled to their own opinions. I support that in a sense because it | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
is part of a democracy. The issue is often about trying to deal with the | :51:17. | :51:24. | |
facts and that is the key issue. What we find when we engage with | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
people and start talking about the facts is that people become more | :51:29. | :51:31. | |
reassured. New figures just released say that | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
the East Midlands has seen the biggest fall in take home pay in the | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
country. According to the TUC, there's been an 8.7% fall in wages | :51:41. | :51:43. | |
here since 2010. It found that the average weekly wage in the region | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
had fallen by ?45.50, compared with a national average fall of ?40. The | :51:48. | :51:50. | |
figure's even worse when compared with some of our neighbours. Workers | :51:51. | :51:53. | |
in Yorkshire and Humberside have seen a ?35 fall and in the West | :51:54. | :52:00. | |
Midlands, it was ?38. Of course, those figures were | :52:01. | :52:03. | |
compiled by the TUC, who are hardly likely to say things are rosy. Other | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
reports have suggested that wages are beginning to rise. So how are | :52:08. | :52:15. | |
you feeling financially? Here's Des. The TUC say we're ?45 worse off | :52:16. | :52:21. | |
since the recession but other reports say wages are on the up. | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
Let's find out what people in Loughborough think. Our wages on the | :52:26. | :52:33. | |
up? I think the wages are at and we are not in recession. I don't think | :52:34. | :52:41. | |
wages are going about all. In some situations, we are very lucky to | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
have a job still. Jobs are very hard to come by. Are we worse off or I | :52:48. | :52:53. | |
wages on the up? We are on the up. Minimum wages on the up. Everybody | :52:54. | :53:00. | |
else's wage has to stay the same. I don't think the recession is over. | :53:01. | :53:06. | |
Some reports say wages are on the up and some on the down. I think they | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
are on the down. I think they are on the increase. But the cost of living | :53:12. | :53:21. | |
is rising. Wages at or down, let's ask Barry? I still think they are on | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
their way down. Nobody has got any me spend. Our wages on the up or on | :53:28. | :53:37. | |
the down? I would say on the up. People seem happier and that is | :53:38. | :53:41. | |
always a good sign. Jon Ashworth, people in Loughborough | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
very split there. Some say things aren't improving, some seeing wages | :53:46. | :53:49. | |
going up. Maybe it's just taking a bit longer for improvements to reach | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
everyone? People are really struggling. When you look at the | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
different statistics, it shows you that actually people are worse off | :54:00. | :54:04. | |
because wages have not been increasing when inflation has. | :54:05. | :54:10. | |
People are ?1600 worse off under David Cameron. One person said they | :54:11. | :54:19. | |
didn't think the recession was over. We have to look at confidence and | :54:20. | :54:24. | |
people have to feel that confidence. We had the Derbyshire | :54:25. | :54:27. | |
and Leicestershire and Nottinghamshire Chamber of Commerce | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
condone to speak to a group of MPs and the business community they were | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
saying that people at `` that things are on the up in terms of new jobs. | :54:37. | :54:45. | |
We have over a million new jobs in the private sector and the business | :54:46. | :54:48. | |
community was saying what follows from that is an increase in wages. | :54:49. | :54:54. | |
These representatives were confident that would be the next step. The | :54:55. | :55:02. | |
coalition says when you take tax cuts into account 90% of us have | :55:03. | :55:06. | |
seen their income in `` an increase in our income of 2.5%. The coalition | :55:07. | :55:12. | |
is talking about income tax, but it is not including the increase in | :55:13. | :55:18. | |
National Insurance or VAT. Pensioners are paying more tax. The | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
coalition are not in straight with you. There is a bigger tax burden | :55:22. | :55:29. | |
under the Tories. You are worse off under David Cameron. That is not a | :55:30. | :55:36. | |
surprise in reply. We have taken the poorest people in the country out of | :55:37. | :55:39. | |
income tax altogether. This definitely makes a difference to | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
people 's lives. Pensioners have been well supported. Giving people | :55:44. | :55:52. | |
more responsibility over their pensions. The country is on the | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
right path. Business confidence is up. But this is an issue that could | :55:58. | :56:07. | |
settle the general election result. I think people take the view that | :56:08. | :56:14. | |
the economy is central to a general election and the indicators at the | :56:15. | :56:17. | |
moment is that the ball are cautiously optimistic as to the | :56:18. | :56:21. | |
direction the country is going in. Unlike John, I would say it is | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
because the government has protected the poorest in society. We have to | :56:27. | :56:33. | |
create jobs and look at exporting around the world. Our saving ratios | :56:34. | :56:47. | |
are falling. The reason for this bit of growth is because of an increase | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
in consumption. But it is all on credit cards. Raising the minimum | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
wage has got to be a step in the right direction though. I think the | :56:57. | :57:04. | |
chamber of commerce are neutral and they say we need to be optimistic at | :57:05. | :57:09. | |
this stage that it doesn't mean to say that we don't look out for our | :57:10. | :57:12. | |
constituents and make sure people are being looked after. Some people | :57:13. | :57:23. | |
would say the living wage is more important. Why aren't you | :57:24. | :57:27. | |
concentrating on that? The living which has come into the debate | :57:28. | :57:35. | |
nationally. At the House of Commons, the speaker made an announcement | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
that everybody working in the House of Commons would get the living | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
wage. I think there is an issue with it but I would concentrate on the | :57:44. | :57:46. | |
overall picture which is about supporting businesses and helping | :57:47. | :57:53. | |
people get back into work. I think there are positives for the country. | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
As the economy grows, surely wages will rise. I think wages will | :57:59. | :58:04. | |
probably rise but the problem is you well I've had three or four years of | :58:05. | :58:16. | |
stagnation. George Osborne said he was going to have growth | :58:17. | :58:21. | |
straightaway but actually he has failed because he has put the 80 at | :58:22. | :58:26. | |
and has put taxes up and he kept too deeply in the early stages. | :58:27. | :58:30. | |
Time now for a round up of some of the other stories from the week with | :58:31. | :58:34. | |
our Political Editor, John Hess, in 60 seconds. | :58:35. | :58:41. | |
And your starter for ten. Which East Midlands MP has complained that the | :58:42. | :58:44. | |
final of University Challenge was an all male, all Oxbridge affair? No | :58:45. | :58:54. | |
conferring. Richard the Lionheart. No, in fact it's the Ashfield's | :58:55. | :58:57. | |
Gloria De Piero, Labour's Shadow Minister for Equality. And for a | :58:58. | :59:01. | |
bonus, which East Midlands MP is now backing David Cameron after writing | :59:02. | :59:04. | |
a letter of no confidence? Yes, North West Leicestershire's Andrew | :59:05. | :59:07. | |
Bridgen. He's changed his mind because he says the PM has | :59:08. | :59:10. | |
engineered dramatic improvements in Britain's fortunes. Elsewhere, the | :59:11. | :59:13. | |
Government has answered the question of whether it will help the mining | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
industry with a "yes". Well of sorts, offering ?10 million towards | :59:18. | :59:20. | |
the phased closure of Thoresby Colliery in Nottinghamshire. We are | :59:21. | :59:28. | |
keeping open the prospect of a private buyer. If they see an | :59:29. | :59:31. | |
economic case they are free to do so. But unions say the money could | :59:32. | :59:36. | |
have been used to access more coal seams and give the pit another four | :59:37. | :59:45. | |
years of life. So back to women again and the lack | :59:46. | :59:49. | |
of them. Maybe the universities need to have a quota! Did either of you | :59:50. | :59:53. | |
fancy pitting your wits on University Challenge back in the | :59:54. | :59:57. | |
day? I am not sure that would help to have tight quarters but all | :59:58. | :00:06. | |
universities, all girls do very well at school. I don't think it is the | :00:07. | :00:13. | |
way to go but we should see more women in public life. We should have | :00:14. | :00:27. | |
Jessica in there. I am resuming my law career and we have never had a | :00:28. | :00:30. | |
lady Lord Chief Justice. Thanks to my guests, Jessica and | :00:31. | :00:34. | |
Jon. That's the Sunday Politics in the East Midlands. Now, back to | :00:35. | :00:35. | |
Andrew Neil. risk. We have run out of time. -- | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
particular candidates. Back to you, Andrew. | :00:40. | :00:49. | |
The sun's out, Ed Balls has run the London Marathon, and MPs leave | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
Westminster for their Easter break. Let's discuss what's coming up in | :00:53. | :01:02. | |
the Week Ahead. We will get more of what we have | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
just seen. Let's look back on the debate. What did we learn from the | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
argument is? That it is going to bore and irritate whole lot of | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
people, this election campaign. Four parties shouting at each other about | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
things that most people do not know much about. They know very little | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
about how the European Parliament works, what an MEP is supposed to | :01:23. | :01:30. | |
do. A lot of heat and not a lot of light. I've updated well, all of | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
them, but the net effect is not going to encourage people to go out | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
and vote and not many do. One thing that struck me was that on Europe, | :01:41. | :01:48. | |
the Labour and Lib Dem positions are not that far apart. They are pretty | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
much the same. And yet the knocks lots of each other. I suppose they | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
feel that they had to do that because that is the format. I'd | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
agree with Polly. Their word UKIP and the Tories to attack two we try | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
to make it exciting, and we know the issues are important. But people out | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
there have not heard of these individuals. It is not very | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
exciting. That is worrying because these are huge national questions | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
for us. We need to find a way of making it more fun. People may not | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
know these MEPs, they may not know the detail of the debate, but it is | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
an issue on which people have strong opinions. It is a visceral thing for | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
many people. Especially on the immigration issue. The debate took | :02:36. | :02:37. | |
off and became more vociferous at that point. To a large extent, you | :02:38. | :02:44. | |
wonder whether not only this European election but the eventual | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
referendum will be a referendum on the issue of immigration and free | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
movement. If we did not learn much from the argument, the thing we did | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
learn is that the structure of these televised debate influences the | :02:56. | :03:03. | |
outcome. One of the reasons that Nigel Farage did well in the debate | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
is that in a two-man debate, each man has as good a chance as the | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
other. If it is four people, one man can be ganged up on. Patrick O'Flynn | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
did well for a man who is not an elected politician yet. At times, 40 | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
came under attack and did not hold the line as well as you would | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
expect. Does that create a perverse incentive for the main parties to | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
agree to a four way debate before the general election? I do not think | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
the David Cameron has nearly as much to worry about from a televised | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
debate in the run-up to the elections than his spin doctors | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
believe. When you put him up against Ed Miliband, and we have not | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
actually seen Ed Miliband in that format, I think he will come off all | :03:46. | :03:51. | |
right. This is an election which the polls would have us believe that the | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
battle for first place is between UKIP and labour. It certainly is. | :03:57. | :04:02. | |
Obviously, it is neck and neck and we will not know until we are | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
closer. And it matters a lot to both of them. If Mr Miliband does not | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
come first, that is not good news for the main opposition at this | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
stage. Except to some extent all of the people will put it to one side | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
and say that this is a bizarre election. A plague on both your | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
houses, let's vote UKIP. It is not clear how much that translates into | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
the next election. It is not too disastrous for Labour. It would be | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
better if they came first. If Mr Miliband comes first, not a problem, | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
but it becomes second and UKIP soars away, what are the consequences? I | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
think there is a widespread expectation already at Westminster | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
that UKIP is very likely to come first. If Ed Miliband fails to come | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
first, there will not be a great deal of shock in the West Mr | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
village. Else think what is remarkable about Ed Miliband is that | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
despite consistently poor personal leadership approval ratings, the | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
overall Labour poll is consistently very high. We have seen that budget | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
blip, it seems to have taken us back to where we were before. Leadership | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
is not everything. Mrs Thatcher was miles behind James Callaghan but in | :05:23. | :05:25. | |
the end, it was the party politics that mattered more. If Mr Cameron | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
comes third and the Tories come third, maybe a poor third, is it | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
headless chicken time on the Tory backbenchers? It has often been said | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
that the Tory Party has two modes, complacency and panic. You will see | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
them shift into panic mode. By June, I think. Many of the stories in the | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
sun will be about David Cameron's personal leadership and his grip on | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
the party. There will be pressure on conference by the time that comes | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
around. It is a natural consequence of being the incumbent party. The | :06:01. | :06:07. | |
Lib Dems are 7% in two of the polls today. It was widely thought that in | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
the first and second debates, Nigel Farage won both. In retrospect, was | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
the challenge strategy a disaster for Mr Clegg? I do not think it was | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
because he had nothing to lose. But he is lower in the polls than when | :06:25. | :06:31. | |
he started. He has not lost a great deal. The polls were quite often | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
that low. I think it was a good thing to do. It raised his profile. | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
It made him the leading party in. That may be a difficult place to | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
be. That is how you end up with 7% in the polls. The reason he is | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
fighting with Labour is that he knows very well that all he has to | :06:52. | :06:54. | |
do is to get his votes back that have gone to Labour and labour have | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
to fight hard to make sure that they do not go back. Every party looks to | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
where it is going to get it support. If it is a wipe-out for the | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
Lib Dems, and they lose all their MEPs, not saying that is going to | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
happen but you could not rule it out for, are we back in Nick Clegg | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
leadership crisis territory? One of the astonishing things about this | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
Parliament is the relative absence of leadership speculation about Nick | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
Clegg will stop at the first couple of years, his position seems | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
tricky, but maybe that is because Chris Hughton is gone and he was the | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
only plausible candidate. This cable is not getting any younger, to put | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
it delicately. That was not delegate at all! And we have reached a | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
desperate stage where Danny Alexander is talked about as a | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
candidate. That was not delegate either! Maybe he is holding onto | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
power the lack of alternatives. If they ended up with no MEPs at all, | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
and a less than double digits score... With Danny Alexander, it is | :07:56. | :08:02. | |
clear that Scotland, one way or another, will be moving further | :08:03. | :08:04. | |
away. You could not have the leader of a national party be a Scot. But | :08:05. | :08:11. | |
he does not have the following in the party. I'm glad you're liberal | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
attitudes to immigration extends to me. I would not have been here for | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
43 years. There will be leadership talk after that holes. It has been | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
bubbling in the background, but you have to talk to the grass roots | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
activists. -- after the polls. The grass roots activists are | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
despairing. If things are bad, they lose their network of activists, who | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
they need to fight the next election. I think you mean, not that | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
you could have a Scot, but that it would be more difficult to have a | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
Scot from a Scottish constituency. Absolutely. I think a Scottish | :08:48. | :08:53. | |
constituency, so many things will be different. Or to hold the great | :08:54. | :09:00. | |
offices of state. Let's come onto the Crown Prosecution Service is. It | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
is an English institution. Where does the CPS and after losing yet | :09:05. | :09:07. | |
another high-profile case come this time Nigel Evans? They had nine | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
counts against him and they did not win on one. It is obviously very | :09:13. | :09:19. | |
embarrassing. They will have a bit of explain to do but I guess the | :09:20. | :09:21. | |
threshold for bringing these cases is high. There has to be considered | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
at least a 50-50 chance of actually winning the case. We do not know | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
what went on behind the scenes when they weighed up whether to bring the | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
case. Nigel Evans makes an interesting point about whether it | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
is legitimate to bundle together a number of stand-alone relatively | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
weak accusations, and when you put them together to militantly, the CPS | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
uses that to make a case. Is that a legitimate thing to do? He was a | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
high-profile figure, not just because he was a Tory MP. He was the | :09:53. | :10:00. | |
deputy speaker of the House. And yet the CPS are certainly the police, to | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
begin with they did not have that many people to testify against him. | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
And then they trawled for more. You wonder if they would have done that | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
if it was not for the fact that he was a public figure. The trouble is, | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
they are dammed if they do and dammed if they do not. Particularly | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
with politicians and the reputation they have these days, if there is | :10:21. | :10:23. | |
any suggestion that they let somebody off because they are a | :10:24. | :10:26. | |
high-profile politician, and they are saying that about Cyril Smith, | :10:27. | :10:33. | |
that is the accusation. A strange story. Most unlikely and very | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
bizarre. But that is the accusation. If there is any with of that, I can | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
see why the CPS says, we better let the courts try this one. Also, they | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
are in trouble overrated cases because their success rate on | :10:47. | :10:54. | |
bringing people to court for rape is so thin. When it looked as if his | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
accusers were not really accusing him, it looks quite weak. You cannot | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
help but feeling that they are falling over backwards now in | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
high-profile cases because of their abject and total failure over Jimmy | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
Savile. I think this is exactly the kind of case that happens when you | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
are trying to make a point or redeem a reputation or change a culture. | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
All of these big things. As opposed to what criminal justice is supposed | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
to be about, which is specific crimes and specific evidence | :11:23. | :11:24. | |
matching those crimes. The CPS has no copper a fleet joined in this | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
list of public and situations that has taken a fall over the past five | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
or six years. We have had Parliament, the newspapers, the | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
police will stop I think this is as bad a humiliation as any of those | :11:36. | :11:38. | |
because it is Innocent people suffering. You are the most recent, | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
being a lobby correspondent in Westminster, and we now see on | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
Channel 4 News that basically, Westminster is twinned with Sodom | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
and Gomorrah. Yes. I know. Is this true? It is all rather the red. I do | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
not move in those circles. And you were in the lobby at one stage? Not | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
that long ago. Is it right. Is it right to be twinned with Sodom and | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
Gomorrah? I'll ask him for his opinion. Being technically a member | :12:07. | :12:13. | |
of the lobby, I can observe some of this stuff. And what surprises me is | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
that journalists, when the complain about Sodom and Gomorrah, write | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
themselves out of it. It is as if it is just MPs. We are unalloyed and | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
unvarnished. Actually, the fact is it has always been a bit like Sodom | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
and tomorrow. Of course it has. Think about how we have had wave | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
after wave of stories and scandals. But less of it recently. It was I | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
think that attitudes have slightly changed. I'll also think that if you | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
get 650 people in any organisation and you put that much scrutiny on | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
them, you will find an awful lot going on in most people's officers | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
of a scurrilous nature. Even in the BBC | :12:58. | :14:01. | |
In 2013, the public voted for a portrait of | :14:02. | :14:03. | |
At times he's interesting, at times he's very funny, | :14:04. | :14:12. | |
My life is a very happy life and I'm a very happy person. | :14:13. | :14:19. | |
Will you feel nervous when this is unveiled? | :14:20. | :14:21. | |
I suppose being the centre of attention but for ever. | :14:22. | :14:25. |