06/04/2014 Sunday Politics East Midlands

Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.

Pressure on Culture Secretary Maria Miller mounts as the Tory press,

Tory voters and even a Tory Minister turn against her. That's our top

story. The economic outlook is getting

rosier. But Ed Miliband is having none of it. The cost of living

crisis is here to stay, says Labour. Shadow Minister Caroline Flint joins

us for the Sunday Interview. And we bring you the Sunday Politics

Gallery. But which former world leader is behind these paintings of

world leaders? In the East Midlands, warm words

from the Prime Minister, but will the Government really act to save

our last pit? new London borough. A blue flint for

regeneration or economic Armageddon? And with me as always, the best and

the brightest political panel in the business - Janan Ganesh, Helen Lewis

and Nick Watt. Their tweets will be as brief as a Cabinet Minister's

apology. A frenzy of betting on the Grand

National yesterday. But there was one book on which betting was

suspended, and that was on the fate of Culture Secretary Maria Miller,

now the 2/1 favourite to be forced out the Cabinet. She galloped

through her apology to the Commons on Thursday in just 32 seconds. But

speed did her no favours. There s been mounting pressure on her to

resign ever since, especially from Tories. And this weekend the

Chairman of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority,

Ian Kennedy, said it's time MPs gave away the power to decide how

colleagues who break the rules are punished. An inquiry into Maria

Miller's expenses claims was launch in 2012, following allegations he

claimed ?90,000 to fund a house she lived in part time with her parents.

She had designated this her second home. She was referred to the

Parliamentary Standards Commissioner, who recommended that

she repay ?45,000. But this week the Commons Standards Committee,

comprising of MPs from all parties, dismissed the complaint against

Maria Miller and ordered her to repay just ?5,800 for inadvertently

overclaiming her merge claimants. She was forced to apologise to the

Commons for the legalistic way she dealt with the complaints against

her. But Tony Gallagher told the Daily Politics on Friday: We got a

third call from Craig Oliver who pointed out, she is looking at

Leveson and the call is badly timed. I think if you are making a series

of telephone calls to a newspaper organisation investigating the

conduct of a Cabinet Minister, that comes close

After that interview Craig Oliver contacted us, saying there was no

threat in anyway over Leveson. I mead it clear at the time. Tony

Gallagher is talking rubbish about me, and you can use that. The Daily

Telegraph have released a tape of a phone call between Maria Miller s

aid, Joanna Hindley, and a reporter investigating her expenses claim.

Joanna Hindley said: Maria's obviously been having quite

a lot of editor's meetings around Leveson at the moment. So I'm just

going to kind of flag up that connection for you to think about.

The Prime Minister is sticking by his Culture Secretary, but this

weekend's crescendo of criticism of her presents him with a problem and

he could be wishing Maria Miller would just fall on her sword. Even

over 80% of Tory voters in a Mail on Sunday poll think she should go On

the Andrew Marr Show, the Work and Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan

Smith, defended his colleague. I've known her always to be a reasonable

and honest person. But is she doing the Government or her any good by

staying in office at the moment do you think? This is a matter the

Prime Minister has to take consideration of and she herself. My

view generally is I'm supportive of Maria, because if we are not careful

we end one a witch-hunt of somebody. And I'm joined now by the

Conservative MP, Bob Stewart, and the man in the white suit, former MP

and anti-sleaze campaigner Martin Bell. Welcome to you both. Stuart

Stuart sturkts let me put this to you, a Conservative MP told this

programme, this is a quote, she has handled this appallingly. Downing

Street has acted like judge and jury, for Craig Oliver to get

involved is disastrous. She's been protected by the whips from the

start. What do you say to that? It's not great, is it? The fact of the

matter is the question one should ask is, did she deliberately try to

make money? Did she deliberately try to obscure ate? The answer is she

certainly didn't deliberately try to make money, in the system, which was

the old system, and with regard to obscure ago, I wasn't there, but

let's put it this way. She was going through a quasi-judicial process and

might have ended up in court, so she has a right to defend herself. Hold

on o you said she doesn't do it to make money, she remortgaged the

house a couple of times to earn more interest to us, the taxpayer, and

when interest rates went down she didn't reduce the amount she was

charging in expenses. Well, the point is the adjudicator said there

was ?45,000 she was owed. And then a committee, Standards Committee, said

actually it should be reduced. That was mainly MPs but there are three

lay members. Yes, but they don't have the vote. OK, fine, that is

where it is wrong and we've got to get it sorted. Let me put another

quote from our Conservative MP. He didn't want to be named. None of you

do at the moment. I'm being named. But you are backing her. George

young in cahoots. He's been leading on the Standards Committee to find

her innocent. The Standards Committee is unfit for purpose. I

think the Standards Committee should be revisited. I think the system is

still evolving. And I think actually we ought to have totally independent

judgment on MPs' pay and allowances. We haven't have not got there yet

and that is where it is wrong. Martin Bell, have MPs interfered in

the Maria Miller process and with the current Standards Commissioner

in the same way that they saw off a previous Commissioner they thought

was too independent? Andrew it is exactly the same. Yesterday I looked

at a diary entry I made for May 2000, I said, dreadful meeting

standards and privileges, they are playing party politics. One of them

told Elizabeth fill kin to her face the gossip in the tea room was she

had gone crazy. Nothing's changed. What this shows is most of all,

what's the committee for? If it is just going to rubber stamp what the

party wants and its mates, I don't see any point. But it hasn't rubber

stamped. It's changed it. Well, it has watered down. That's why we

should make it totally independent and it shouldn't be involved in the

House of Commons. It is plus plus ca change isn't it? MPs', scandal, and

MPs closing ranks for one of their own. Has the Commons learned

nothing? And this is after the expenses scandal, where everything

was out for everybody to see, you would think MPs would be careful.

This is before the expenses scandal. We are looking at an historical

event, during your time, Martin not mine. I'm clean on this. You

campaigned for him as an independent. I did, he was a good

friend of mine. And now you've joined the club. And now you are

defending Maria Miller? I'm defending someone who hasn't been

proved guilty of anything beyond the fact she was rather slow to come

forward with evidence. My point on that, is I understand that. MPs are

being lambasted the whole time these days. There were a heck of a lot of

them, Martin, who are utterly decent. She didn't try to make

money. We've just been through that. I don't think that's right. The jury

is out on that. What should have happened in the Miller case, Martin

Bell? I don't think there should be a committee on standards. I think

the Commissioner should make a report. There has been to be justice

for the MP complained against. Then the committee of the whole House can

consider it. But we are, the House of Commons, then as now is incapable

of regulating itself. That's been proving yet again. She made a

perfunctory apology. She threatened and instructed the Standards

Commissioner investigating her, and her special adviser linked expenses

to Leveson, when trying to stop the Daily Telegraph from publishing I

mean, is that the behaviour of a Cabinet Minister? Well, it's

probably not the behaviour of someone that's got time on their

hands. She's a very busy Cabinet Minister. Well, she had enough time

to write lots of letters to the Standards Commission ser. She felt

under such threat. She had the time. She had to make the time. Die know

the lady is not trying desperately to make money. I disagree but on

that. The fact of the matter is this was an old, old system, that

we've tried to put right, or the Commons has tried to put right. I

agree that MPs shouldn't get involved in this. Should we get rid

of this committee? It serves no purpose except to cause trouble The

adjudicator has said that and it should be the end of it. It

shouldn't come back to the Commons. Although her special adviser

threatened them over Leveson she was and is the Minister responsible for

trying to introduce something like Leveson and that is something a big

chunk that the press doesn't want. She is a target. It has a good

record on this issue. It played wit a straight bat. The facts aren't in

dispute are they? Will she make it to the next cabinet reshuffle and

then go? Iain Duncan Smith said it is a matter for the Prime Minister.

In my view, as things stand, I question did she deliberately want

to make money? I don't think she did. Should she go? No. Should she

be reshuffled? I don't know. Goodness me, you are asking someone

who will never be reshuffled, because he will never make it. I was

only asking for your opinion, not your ability to do it. This is a

problem for Cameron isn't it? It is a problem for Cameron. There is

nothing wrong with returning to be badge benches, as you know. Hear,

hear. To that. Stick with me. Helen, can she survive? Is I'm going out of

the prediction game when I said Clegg is going to win the date, so I

owe Janan a tenner on that one. Grant Shapps has supported her. She

was ringed by Sir George young and Jeremy Hunt... This is pretty

devastating. On past form David Cameron hates having to bounce

people out of the cabinet. He will want to keep Maria Miller until the

summer reshuffle. This is a question mark on whether she survive this is.

This isn't damaging to the Conservative or the Labour Party, it

is damaging to everyone. This is catastrophic damage to the entire

political establishment. Every single speech that David Cameron and

Ed Miliband have given since 20 9, talking about restoring trust, they

can wipe them from their computers, because voters are going to look

that there and say, this lot haven't learnt anything. They are giving

perfunctory apologies and then you have MPs sitting in judgment on MPs

and rather than paying back ?45 000, she pays back ?5,800 after MPs have

been into it. Damage is huge. Just getting rid of one Cabinet Minister,

you will need to do more than that. You will notice that Labour haven't

made huge weather of this. No, goodness me, they have their own

skeletons. Exactly. The person who has made hay out of this is Nigel

Farage, who has not been backwards in coming forward. He doesn't seem

to care about skeletons. The Prime Minister has be-Gunby backing her,

but that's not popular even with Tory voters. How does he get out of

this? This is the problem for him. Five years ago his reaction to the

expenses scandal was seen by many Tory backbenchers as excessive. They

felt hung out to dry by a man who is independently wealthy. To go from

that to making a special exemption to Maria Miller because it is

politically suitable is more incendiary and provocative. It is

not just upsetting the voters and the Daily Telegraph but a good

number of people behind him. I think they will get rid of her. I think

the Government, to paraphrase Churchill, will zoo the decent thing

after exhausting all options, of the European elections a reshuffle. The

culture department has gone from a baulk water in haul to one of the

most politically sensational jobs because of its proximity to the

Leveson issue. She has to be replaced by someone Lily skillful

and substantial. Mr Cameron is not short of smart women? Nikki Morgan,

the education department, these are absolutely outstanding women and the

problem that the generation elected in 2005, Maria Miller generation,

there are some really good people elected in 2010. You are not

responsible for hacking into the culture Department's Twitter account

last night? I was out at the time! They all say that! One so, Maria

Miller is like a modern-day Robin Hood... She robs the poor to help

the rich. Which one of us has not embezzled the taxpayer? I reckon it

is the lady. You have the perfect cover. We would not know how to

would we? You cannot tweet from a mobile device, can you? Play it

safe. No, do something dramatic Have lots of pledges. Have just a

few pledges. Ah, there must be a Labour policy review reaching its

conclusion because everyone has some free advice for the party about its

message and the man delivering it. Here's Adam. He is well liked by the

public don't quite buy him as a leader. The papers say he is in hock

to the unions and the party has a lead in the polls but it is not

solid. Bartenders Neil Kinnock. That is what they said Winnie who lost

the 1982 election. The whole country deserves better and we will work to

ensure that the day will come when with the Labour government, the

country will get better. Someone who was there can see some spooky

parallels. The important lesson from 1992 is it cannot rest on your

laurels and hope for the best, you cannot sit on a lead of seven points

because the election narrows that and you cannot rely on the

government not getting its act together because the Conservative

Party was well funded and organised, the double whammy posters, the tax

bombshell, but incredibly effective and the message was unified and they

beat us on the campaign. The lesson for Labour today is this lead will

evaporate quite possibly over the next few months and we might go into

the election behind in the polls. But Ed Miliband is getting

conflicting advice about how to avoid 1992 happening. Be bold, be

cautious and then, the idea that Labour can squeak into office with

just 35% of the vote, which worries some people. Each month, the Labour

Party meets around the country and last week, everybody spoke about the

dangers of this 35% strategy. They were increasingly unhappy and it is

very important that those people around the leader naturally have a

duty to protect him and they make sure he gets this message that while

there is total support for him, they do want this key year in the run-up

to the General Election to be putting out an alternative which we

can defend on the doorstep. The doorstep where Neil Kinnock made his

concession speech is crammed with Spanish back hackers. The old Labour

offices are no a budget hostel. Labour headquarters is down the road

and they are putting the finishing touches to a speech Ed Miliband will

give this week about the cost of living and I am told he will drop

hints about new policies in juicy areas like housing, low pay, growth

and devolving power. As for the charge that they are not radical

enough, his people say they want to be bold but they have to be credible

as well. They say that Labour is more united than it has ever been

but there has been some grumbling that the cost of living campaign is

not the same as a vision for the country. And that Ed Miliband was

not statesman-like enough at Prime Minister's Questions and one figure

who sat at the same table in the Neil Kinnock years summed it up like

this. Things are OK but it feels like we're playing for the draw

Shadow Energy Secretary Caroline Flint joins me now for the Sunday

Interview. This 35% victory strategy, it does not sound very

ambitious? I am campaigning to win this election with a majority

government and everybody else around the table is also. But we want to go

to every corner of the country and win votes for Labour and win seats,

that is what we are working towards. To avoid last time, the coalition

bartering. But that 35% is a victory strategy so are you saying there is

no 35% strategy and that no one at the heart of Labour is not arguing

for this? We are working to win around the country and to win all of

those battle ground seats and we must have a strategy that appeals to

a cross-section of the public but within that, that broad group Queen

Elizabeth Olympic Park and. You could do that with 35% of the vote?

There is lots of polling and everyone looks at this about what we

need to do to get seats and we want to have a comprehensive majority at

the next election to win to govern this country. Last week, we have

been reading reports of splits in the party over policy and on

tactics, even strategy. A struggle for control of the General Election

manifesto, we are told. What are you arguing over? I said on the

committee and just listening to the film before, it is about being

radical but also credible and we are talking about evolution and that is

an important subject but we are also united and to be honest, in 201

people were writing us off saying we would turn on ourselves and that has

not been the case. We are not arguing about the fundamentals, we

are discussing the policies that are coming up with different colleagues

and talking about how we can make sure they are presented to the

public and that is part of a process. That is a discussion, not

disagreement. The Financial Times, which is usually pretty fair,

reports a battle between Ed Miliband's radical instincts and the

more business fiscal conservatism of Ed Balls. What side are you on? I am

for radical change, I am for energy and I believe strongly we must be

formed the market and people might portray that as anti-business but

this is about more competition and transparency and others coming into

this market so our policy on this is radical, not excepting the status

quo. It is also for business. Opinion polls show that few people

regard Ed Miliband as by Minister material -- Prime Minister material.

That has been true since he became leader. And in some cases, they have

been getting worse. Why is that Opinion polls say certain things

about the personalities of leaders, David Cameron is not great either.

And they were not great when he was in opposition. At this stage, he was

getting 49% as Prime Minister real material and Ed Miliband, 19. -

Prime Minister material. When you look at certain questions that the

public is asked about who you think you would trust about being fair in

terms of policy towards Britain who understands the cost of living

crisis, they very much identify with Ed Miliband. We are ahead in the

polls. Ed Miliband has made that happen. We have one more

councillors, we have been running in by-elections and we have held this

government over the barrel over six months on energy prices. That is to

do with his leadership. The more that voters save him, the less they

seem convinced. In 2011, he had been leader for one year, and only 1 %

regarded him as weird, by 2014, that was 41%. Look at that! Look at that

weirdness! What people need is to know where the Labour Party stands

on fundamental issues. And in those areas, particularly the cost of

living and fairness and people being concerned that we are entering into

a period where people will be worse for the first time ever at the end

of the Parliament, these things are important and Ed Miliband is part of

our success. Definitely. I think this is ridiculous, to be fair, he

is not a politician that says, I am dying with the Arctic monkeys, I

know who is the number one. He did not play that game. -- down. He is

not either there to portray himself as someone who was with the

children, I know everything about popular culture. His authenticity is

the most important thing. People do not think he is authentic, unless

they think we were at is authentic. Is it true that his staff applaud

him when he comes back after giving even a mediocre speech? I have never

heard that. I have never heard about him being applauded. And I am

pleased to applaud him with he makes speeches, I have given him a

standing ovation. You have to do that because the cameras are

rolling! No, he made a good speech. Five minutes without notes. It took

a long time to memorise I don't blame him! The cost of living.

Focusing on that, it has paid dividends. But inflation is falling

and perhaps collapsing, unemployment is falling faster than anybody

thought, as we can see. Wages are rising, soon faster than prices

Retail sales are booming, people have got money in their pockets

Isn't the cost of living crisis narrative running out of steam? I do

not think so and I should say that I welcome any sign of positive changes

in the economy, if anybody gets a job in Doncaster, I am pleased by

the end of this Parliament families will be over ?900 worse off because

of tax and benefit changes and the working person is ?1600 worse off

and it is the first government since the 1870s where people will be at

the end of the Parliament. We believe the government made wrong

choices that lead the rich off at the expense of those on middle and

lower incomes. -- let the rich. The average family ?794 worse off from

tax and benefit changes. That has been backed up. They are those

figures. But he has skewed these figures by including the richest,

where the fall in tax and the penalty they pay is highest. If you

take away the richest, it is nowhere near that figure. Everybody agrees

and even the government and knowledges that at the end of their

tenure in Parliament, people will be worse off. 350,000 extra people who

would desperately like full-time work who are working part-time and 1

million young people unemployed and the reason the cost of living has a

residence is people feel that. I was in a supermarket and at Doncaster

and someone summed this up, he said I work hard and at the end of the

week, beyond paying bills, I have got nothing else. If you take away

the top 10% who are losing over ?600,000, the average loss comes

down to around ?400, less than half of what you claim. That figure is

totally misleading. These are the figures from the IFS. It still

shows... Whatever way you shape this, people will still be worse

off, families worse off because of these changes to tax and benefits

and working people because wages have not kept up with prices. Your

energy portfolio, you back the enquiry into the big six companies

and you intend to go ahead with the price freeze and reconfigure the

market even before it reports. If you win, this is a waste of time?

Whilst we have had this process before the announcement, we always

feel if it goes that way, there might be areas we have not thought

of that the enquiry will also draw attention to that we might want to

add on. You are right, our basic reforms for the new regulator, to

separate generation supply, we will pursue that. What happens if this

report concludes that your plans are not correct? You will still go

ahead? I don't think so. Actually, if you look at the report that Ofgem

produced, some of the issues Labour has been drawing attention to like

vertical integration, they cover that. I was asking about the

Competition Commission? The report last week is a result of working

together and I think it is clearly accepted in this sector, look at SSE

last week, they will separate the business. We are pushing at the open

door. It has already pulled out of gas. So it follows if you freeze

energy prices across the market, it might be the right thing to do but

there will be a cost in terms of jobs and investment, correct? Well,

I met with SSE last weekand the chief executive and talked about

these issues. The jobs changes are partly about them looking at how

they could be more efficient as a company. On offshore wind that

wasn't really to do with the price freeze. That was more to do with

issues around confidence in that area and therefore willing to put

the money into it, as well as technical issues as well But

there'll be job losses. Is that a price worth paying? We believe the

reason we are having a price freeze is these companies have been

overcharging customers and haven't been investing in their

organisations and making them more efficient. I do not believe a price

freeze is linked to job losses. These companies do need to be more

efficient. Goal for all of us is realising the fantastic opportunity

for more jobs and growth from an energy sector that has certainty

going forward. That's what Labour will deliver. Caroline Flint, thank

you. It's 1130 and you're watching The

Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us

now for Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up

In the East Midlands, warm words from the Prime Minister, but will

the Government really act to save our last pit?

I'm in the business of trying to save jobs, of making sure wd have

diverse supplies of energy. So if we can help, we will help.

And a lost generation. How can we find jobs for our young people and

do they have the skills for work? There is a real cliff edge looming

if we don't do the right thhng right now to engage young people `nd

respond to the entry`level work the sector needs.

Hello, I'm Marie Ashby and ly guests this week are Nicky Morgan, the

Conservative MP for Loughborough and a Treasury Minister, and Toby

Perkins is the Labour MP for Chesterfield. He's also a Shadow

Minister on his party's bushness team. Well, it has been a bhg

weekend for gambling. But one of our councils is joining forces with more

than 60 others around the country calling for tougher planning

regulations to limit the nulber of betting shops. Nottingham Chty

Council is concerned at the growth of bookies on the High Stredt. As a

Treasury Minister, you'll know gambling brings in a lot of revenue,

around ?3 billion and millions in taxes. As a government I gudss it's

not in your interests to cut the growth of this industry? As a

government, what we want is local areas to have control over what

their local High Street looks like. So I think it is great that a local

council has said that we want to determine what kind of shops are on

the High Street. Councils h`ve the power to say what they would like to

have in the High Street or not. The last Budget reduced duty on bingo

but put it up on fixed odds betting terminals. Should there be tighter

controls on planning to limht the numbers being allowed to opdn? I

think it is for local areas. Local communities are concerned that

sometimes there are lots of betting shops on the High Street. If local

people are concerned they c`n persuade the council to takd

action. There is the abilitx for councils to take that action. In

Nottingham for example therd a 3 in the city. Your brief for Labour is

small businesses. Are you worried that independent operators `re being

squeezed out of the High Street That is one aspect. There is also

the fact we have not seen an increase overall in the number of

betting shops. We have seen more moving into more deprived areas

There is a sense that some of our town centres and districts `re

becoming simply charity shops, betting shops and payday lenders.

Nicky is right to say we nedd to do more to support local authorities

and communities to have a s`y about what is in their area. What is also

being called for is the planning regulations that see betting shops

being judged as though they are a financial services provider rather

than a separate class. It mdans it is difficult for local authorities

to turn those applications down You would like to see more controls I

would like to see... There hs a role for betting shops. We must `llow

people to do what they want to do. But there should be a separ`te class

for betting shops and it wotld allow local authorities to say we have

enough in that area. The Department for Culture, Media and Sport says

problem gambling is a seriots issue and they're currently reviewing what

measures, if any, are needed concerning planning. There `re real

concerns that betting operators are targeting the most vulnerable in the

most deprived areas. That is why in the Budget the Chancellor ptt up the

duty on fixed odds betting lachines which are often described as being

the most addictive. The gambling industry tell us they will try to be

responsible. Local councils do have power already to limit the number of

betting shops but they have to choose to take that power. The

Department for Culture is dte to report back on gambling this spring.

Well, If you were having a bet on the coal industry this weekdnd you

might get long odds on its survival. UK Coal has begun the process of

closing down the last deep line in the East Midlands. Thoresby Colliery

in North Nottinghamshire is expected to close within the next 18 months,

with the loss of 600 jobs. Dven a recent visit from the Chancdllor

looks like it won't be enough to save it. Union leaders say with

European funding the pit cotld be kept open for another four xears.

This week though the Prime Linister stepped in, promising help.

We will do everything we can. We are talking to the company, we `re

talking to the businesses rdlated to this company. We will do evdrything

we can to help them. There `re obviously limits. This is t`xpayers'

money that would have to be involved. But we will work with them

as closely as we can. I am hn the business of trying to save jobs and

making sure we have diverse supplies of energy. If we can help, we will

help. That is not money to help close them down. You're offdring

money to try to keep them alive as working concerns? We want to do

everything we can to keep pdople in their jobs and keep businesses

going. There are limits to what we can do because you are not `llowed

to just wilfully spend taxp`yers' money helping particular businesses.

Well, we're joined by Jeff Wood who's the president of the Tnion of

Democratic Mineworkers. Jeff, do you believe David Cameron? If hd can

stand by his words, what we urgently need is the Government to m`ke an

application for European st`te closure aid. That would givd

Thoresby Colliery at least tntil December 2018 under current state

aid rules. What we keep hearing from the Department for Energy and

Climate Change is that we c`n't apply for various reasons. We have

been to Brussels with all the trade unions this weekend and thex made it

quite clear the Government can make their application for state closure

aid. They just need to put application in. But this is still

about the pit closing. Therd is no way of saving it? ?? GREEN dvery pit

has got a finite life. Therd is another pit with far more rdserves

than Thoresby. Thoresby Colliery can currently continue until 2008. There

are additional reserves aftdr that. At the moment, the company hs in

financial difficulties. There is a deal on the table which is `

commercial loan. The departlent said that with a commercial loan you

can't apply for European st`te closure aid. That is not wh`t

Brussels said. You can run both side`by`side. So why aren't you

going to Europe to find out what can be done and whether you can do this

deal? We are doing everything we can and we very much want to support the

miners in particular, whose jobs are going to be potentially affdcted

with this. We are working whth all parties including the UDM to see

what can be done. There is `ctive engagement going on. You sax that

there is coal still at Thordsby How much are we talking about? H would

say there are is at least fhve years' worth of production left at

Thoresby. 1.2 million tonnes a year. There are additional reserves

are available. Obviously, wd would need further investment to `chieve

that and further tipping sp`ce. Does not make sense to get the coal that

is in there out first? Well, what has happened is that the co`l price

has dropped around the world significantly. Since the last

restructuring of UK Coal, which was last year, the call market has

changed enormously. `` coal market. There is a lot more cheaper US coal

because of the shale gas revolution over there. Things have changed

substantially. You are right. The future, in terms of the coal

available, as part of the dhscussion happening at the moment. Wotld

Labour try to save Thoresby? I think what Jeff has said about thdre being

action that would keep the coal under the closure programme, it does

have to have an end date in mind. The Prime Minister is saying he will

do everything he can. But actually the words we are hearing sedm to

suggest that nothing can be done in terms of Europe. We agree whth Jeff.

We think there is an opporttnity for the Government to go under the coal

closure programme and take ` positive approach as the EU

Commissioner suggested, as the Czech Republic government has dond. They

could save nearly 1300 jobs. Up to four years. That is vital at this

time. When we can buy coal so much more cheaply abroad why shotld we

prop up what's left of the hndustry here? I certainly think there is.

People talk about a diverse energy mix and the fact that we have

security of supply. When yot look politically at the moment in Russia

and what has been happening in the Ukraine, there is still 19 lillion

tonnes of coal buried in thhs country and 40% of our energy at the

moment is derived from coal. If those two minds at close down we

will be dependent on Vladimhr Putin's coal as well as his gas ``

mines. Is that a good idea? Is it wise to rely totally on the Russian

supply? I'm not sure that is the case. I mentioned about the US coal.

We get energy from a number of different supplies. Wind, g`s,

coal. Yes, but still a lot from Russia. Well, actually, there are

other countries in Europe that are far more dependent on Russi`n coal.

At the heart of this are thd miners and their jobs and their security

and that is who we want to focus on in terms of helping people to make

the best of what is a very unfortunate situation. Will Labour

throw their weight behind these miners? I've got to say, he`ring

Conservatives worried about miners and their jobs, it has come rather

late. In terms of their jobs at Thoresby Colliery, it is very

important and we should do everything we can. But Labotr didn't

exactly do a lot, did they? Well, they had virtually all been closed

by then. What has happened hn the mining industry is a tragedx. These

are important jobs but over the course of 30 years it is a tragic

loss. But saying that there is only a certain life span for these pits,

four or five years maximum, it would close anyway. In the context of this

pit, yes, we are talking about where the industry is now and we need to

do what we can to support that. But I was talking about the history we

all know about over the last 30 years. This week we have he`rd

headlines about the smog and pollution in this country. We have

all seen it. Should we be using coal at all? In Brussels, we went to a

presentation about a project the Government are putting ?1 bhllion

into, for the Drax power st`tion carbon capture and storage. We are

talking about burning British coal. You can capture the carbon. There

will be a pipeline across and they have 70 million tonnes of c`pacity.

But we won't have any British coal left. If we close down the lines.

There is one colliery mothb`lled at the moment with 25 years' worth of

top coal reserves there. Thd investment needed is about ?150

million. The point is that overall we have a strategy of decarbonising

our energy sector. Producing less carbon which means moving to other

forms of energy generation. Coal is still important but there are other

ways to generate energy. We are in a transitional period and, as the

Prime Minister said, this is taxpayers' money. Should we move

away from coal? Obviously, ht has shrunk in terms of its contribution.

I think we should look towards carbon capture and storage. It could

have given new life to the hndustry. I think also in terms of thd

relationship with Europe it is important. There is resentmdnt about

the money we send over therd. This is 600 people losing their jobs We

need to be fighting for it. Our members in the union, we all get the

same benefits. Why can't we have the same benefits from Europe as they do

in Germany, Poland, the Czech Republic? Make the applicathon. Jeff

Wood, thank you. Whatever job prospects the future

holds for our young people, it's unlikely they'll find careers in

mining. But where will they find work, and do they have the skills to

do it? There's a heavy emph`sis on providing apprenticeships, but many

employers say young people `re having to be taught to maths,

English and IT before they can even begin training them for the

workplace. These are Derby's very own boys from

the black stuff. Repairing cracked pavements and filling in potholes.

This is unglamorous but essdntial work. For this 19`year`old, it is a

job opportunity through a council`run apprenticeship scheme.

He is fortunate. Not all yotng job`seekers have the basic dducation

and skills to be considered. It gives me a new set of skills and

hopefully I'll have a career out of this. In the next five or shx years,

I could go into my own business The rate of youth unemployment hn the

East Midlands now stands at just over 20% but what is more

significant are the number of young people neither in employment,

education or training. That stands at 74,000, up by 3000 since the

coalition came to power. To combat youth unemployment, Labour`run Derby

City Council will double thd number of apprenticeships to 75. It is the

difficult, especially as thdre are a lot of older people still staying

on. The retirement age is gdtting longer. A lot of skilled jobs are

being taken by older people. It is also expanding its scheme that

places young job`seekers with local private firms in an attempt to plug

a growing skills gap. I just worry that with almost one million young

people out of work across the country we are heading very fast to

having a lost generation. Wd feel it is important as city leaders to set

an example to people across the city to say take on apprenticeshhps, give

them the skills they need to be suitable for a job in today's labour

market. This bit of kit at ` Nottingham manufacturer is `lso for

a drop or two of the black stuff. Oil. The company makes filtration

equipment to clean up fuel. The business plans to expand but the

lack of engineering skills hn the local jobs market, especially in

basic maths and science, is becoming a real headache. It is tricky.

People are out there but it can be hard work. That is right across the

piste from shop floor, design, it is hard to find them. This forler civil

servant may have a solution. His Government`backed employer first

programme is creating an alternative job centre for firms needing those

skilled staff. There is a cliff edge looming if we don't do the right

thing right now to engage young people and respond to the

entry`level work the sector needs. There are also issues around

technical skills and intermddiate skills. As businesses operating in

the sector expand, they can take advantage of market growth. As the

region's economy hots up, the worry now is whether we have got dnough

skilled workers ready for the revival.

So our businessman was saying the revival could be snuffed out because

we just haven't got enough xoung people coming through with the

skills in science and maths. More than slightly worrying! Absolutely.

I think it has been systematic in our education system for a long

time. But there are lots of excellent schools in the East

Midlands. In Loughborough, we have a scheme called Bridge to Work which

works with the college, the schools and employers to make sure xoung

people and their parents ard aware of apprenticeships, traineeships,

work experience opportunitids. But there is an issue and every business

meeting I go to says we can't find the right people. It is partly the

academics, English and maths, but also employability skills. There is

an issue there. I think it hs going to be solved by schools, businesses

and Government working together The Government says there are now more

apprentices than ever beford. You have to accept they are tackling the

problem of youth unemployment. I think they're two different

questions. There are really positive steps over the course of thd last

seven or eight years in apprenticeships. There is

cross`party consensus that they are valuable. The figures in yotr report

show there is still a long way to go. The number of people not in

employment, education or tr`ining is going up, not down. What I think we

need is to have an economy that works on a skill basis on long`term

growth. A lot of the recovery has been based on the property boom in

the south rather than the rdal economy and the people in this area

who could benefit. It has come to something when we are having to

train young people in maths, English, IT before they can even go

on to apprenticeships. How has that happened that they are coming out of

school without these skills? Unfortunately, under the last

government we did not see the emphasis on standards that we now

see. Michael Gove is determhned to ensure higher standards. Of course

he won't agree with me on this. We saw grade inflation where pdople

were told they were getting As and doing very well. That is not fair on

the young person or the employers. They need to know there are

measurable standards. That hs why the traineeships have been

introduced so young people can catch up on those skills. Labour's fault?

Under the Conservatives, before Labour came to power in 1997, over

half of all schools would not have 30% of kids getting five GCSEs. By

the end of the Labour government, virtually every single school had

that. Now the economy has changed and unskilled jobs have redtced

There is still a long way to go but the progress made by people in our

education sector was fantastic. What would you do now and how wotld you

pay for that? We should partly look at the kind of economy you want and

have a real investment in skills and actually making things again.

Manufacturing has continued to fall. It is also about having a rdal

investment in young people. We saw, under schemes set up by the last

government, that from the start of young people's lives right the way

through, they need investment. That must carry on because that hs

long`term progress. Something has to be done, doesn't it? It is on a

cliff edge. We know youth unemployment is still too hhgh.

There is more to be done to tackle it. If we are going to do it, we

should work together in a partnership. Now with a round`up of

other stories here's John Hdss with 60 Seconds.

A warning from Bassetlaw's LP John Mann that 800 years of local justice

in Robin Hood country is threatened. He has secured a Commons debate

tomorrow night on proposals to close Worksop Magistrates' Court `nd shift

cases to be heard in Mansfidld and Nottingham.

Next, the Government's decision not to go ahead with a national badger

cull. Derby North MP Chris Williamson campaigned against it and

said it is a victory for common`sense.

Protesters fighting funding cuts to Lincolnshire's libraries ard taking

their case to the county's LPs. The Save Lincolnshire Libraries group

has already won a judicial review of the County Council's decision. It

will now lobby MPs at Westmhnster. And a County Council`led scheme to

bring high`speed broadband to rural Derbyshire could reach thousands

more people. The ?28 million project was aimed at 80,000 homes and

businesses. Another ?4 millhon could be available to extend the scheme.

That's the Sunday Politics hn the East Midlands. Thanks to our guests

Nicky Morgan and Toby Perkins. Next week it's Jessica Lee and Jon

Ashworth. Now back to Andrew Neil. chair next week. And with that, back

to Andrew. Welcome back and time now to get more from our panel. So they

can justify their meagre patents. This cost of living mantra will last

all the way until the election. Cannot? Ed Miliband leaves he is

onto something and for most of this Parliament, inflation has

outstripped wages. That is going to go the other way and wages will

rise, to which you say Ed Miliband has nothing to say. He says if you

think people are going to feel better in the blink of an eye, you

are a Conservative and do not understand the depth of this and he

is taking the message from a presidential election in America in

2012 and make Romney was ahead on some of the economic indicators but

Barack Obama was ahead on the key one, do you believe this candidate

will make your family's life better? The message that Ed Miliband

will try to say is the next election is about whose side are you on? And

he believes Labour will be on the side of more voters than

conservatives. It would be crazy for Labour not to talk about the cost of

living because even if wages exceed inflation next year, it is not as if

voters will walk around feeling like Imelda Marcos, they will still feel

as if they were struggling and not just compared... Retail sales are

slowing? That is not the sign of palpable disparity. Circumstances

are better than three years ago but not better than five years ago. The

Reagan question will still be employed, are you better off than at

the last election? But things in America were actually getting worse

when he asked that. I covered that election, that is why it resonated

and they did get worse. The Ayatollah had quadrupled the price

of oil. This is based on things getting relatively better, after a

very long wait, so the cost of living critique will have to adapt?

It will but it gets out of a very sticky spot and the IFS says wages

will not outstrip inflation and by that time they can start talking

about other things, plans for the railways and tuition fees and at the

moment, everything is up for grabs. Labour know that every time they

talk about something they want to do, the question is, how do you pay

for it? They can talk about the economy and they don't have

substantial things to say. Is it true that Mr Iain Duncan Smith was

going to make a major announcement on benefit cheats? Or something to

do with that this morning? But he decided against it because of the

tobacco over Maria Miller? It would be very odd to go on to The Andrew

Marr Show to have a chat and see what he is having for lunch. Patrick

went from the Guardian said he was going to set out higher financial

penalty phase for providing inaccurate information in claims.

This is a bad day to do that, given that MP expenses are treated far

more lenient the than any one from Joe public. That would be

fascinating, if true. And he is making a very big speech on well for

tomorrow and this tweet from Patrick went at the Guardian, he has proper

sized on welfare matters and he tends to know what is going on. But

it would be deeply unfortunate if that was the message today. How can

he make a speech that has anything about cracking down on benefit

claimants? Not today but I am not sure tomorrow. Do you get the

impression that nobody in both main parties is very confident of winning

in 2015? I column last week said the result, the most likely result from

one year on is another hung parliament and which government

results from that depends on the mathematical specifics of whether

the Tories can do a deal as well as Labour, leaving everything in the

hands of Nick Clegg or whether one party can do a straightforward deal

but I do not detect any sense of exuberance or confidence in either

camp. And the Tories are still shooting themselves over losing the

boundary commission reforms because that was going to net them 20 seats

and they lost that because they messed up the House of Lords reform

and there are still furious with themselves. The former US President,

George W Bush, has been a busy boy and here at the Sunday Politics we

thought you'd like to see the results of his artistic endeavours.

Time for the gallery. I was a prize to find myself saying,

some of these are not bad! -- surprised. Vladimir Putin? I like

the one of Tony Blair but his early ones of dogs, to be in the presence

of the master is to see his portrait of a Joanne Love. He is not of the

Turner prize but I was surprised. He gets the mask of Vladimir Putin

also Tony Blair. I was impressed that he did not allow personal or

political grudges to influence his artwork. Jacques Chirac, he comes

out of this incredibly well! And Angela Merkel comes out

astonishingly well. Quite generous as well. Tony Blair is the best one

and the reason is he had the closest relationship with them and he has

talked about this portrait, saying he was quite fond of him and you can

see that. These are awful, they would not get you an A-level but you

must admire him to have the guts to do this, and display them publicly!

An A-level? Just doing joined up numbers gets you that these days!

What do you do when you retire? This is less embarrassing than some of

the other things people have done. As good as Churchill? I don't

know... No! Churchill was brilliant! And on that! That's all for today.

Tune into BBC Two every day at lunchtime this week for the Daily

Politics. And we'll be back at the later time of 2:30pm next Sunday

after the London Marathon. Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday

Politics.