08/06/2014 Sunday Politics East Midlands


Andrew Neil and Marie Ashby with the latest political news and debate, including an interview with Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.

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David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers


over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.


And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign.


We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live.


Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?


David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist


But could the arch europhile yet get the top job?


Here's to the quarter of a million votes.


And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with


a pint down the pub and how their success may have cost UKIP two MEPs.


We're live at the Showground with the town's new MP and


Has Boris Johnson deserted the suburbs and become a zone one man?


And with me our panel of top political journalists,


who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee


and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme


This morning's political news is dominated


by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and


The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior


Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling


The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of


investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham


where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken


Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office


was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots.


He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp.


In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted,


"why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people


Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the


An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry.


Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's


Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning


this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say.


There's been a disciplinary matter within the Government,


which the Prime Minister has dealt with in a very firm, clear way.


There will be discipline in the Government.


The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools.


The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that s


put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning.


Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she


has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael


Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during


13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an


act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website


and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of


conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a


leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a


vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In


the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell.


She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is


interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse


differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is


tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out.


Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the


politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is


deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but


replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in


ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that


ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the


Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with


Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick


Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and


criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the


Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is


fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What


separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The


view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic


extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is


criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour


government introduced to do with the previous Labour government


introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people


and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous


home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in


the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has


used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the


swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very easily inflamed


those emotions and create many more extremists the process. Michael Gove


would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech


the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2 11


when the Prime Minister talked about how extremists


warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system


is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.


Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.


Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of


their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents


in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political


infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the


resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs


to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.


There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for


four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact


that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on


for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much


stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations


like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the


Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the


leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an


overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We


want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate


themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which


makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to


be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted


curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an


education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender


segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender


segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling


Where you have a state education system, which is about gender


equality between boys and girls and there is an unofficial policy of


gender segregation, that is unacceptable. We should not be


tarring communities with the same brush in terms of radicalisation. We


do want to see a successful, multicultural education. Two years


ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as outstanding. Now it looks like


tomorrow it is going into special measures. What is it up to? I do


think there is an issue for Ofsted that you can go from outstanding to


inadequate so quickly. That is why we are asking for a new criteria to


be introduced to look at a broad and balanced curriculum. We have healthy


sex and relationship education. There is a real issue this morning


as the BBC has been reporting on the night for the Department of


Education. We are hearing that some of those involved in the schools


were not allowed to open a free school on security grounds. They


were allowed to allow one of the schools to be taken over as an


academy. We have a lack of oversight and accountability in schools within


Birmingham. What the Labour Party wants is a local director of school


standards to make sure we challenge underperformance and make sure we


get in confronting Islamic extremism when it was in power? I was speaking


to Hazel blears and she was very clear about the prevent programme


which they rolled out when in office. A very atomised and


fragmented school system where every school is looked at from behind a


desk in Whitehall and he put that together and you do have an


increased risk of chances of radicalisation. You have attacked Mr


Gove for gross negligence. Was it the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for


gross negligence. We are dealing with a government which has been in


since 2010. The Government needs to hold the executive to account. We


note the Department Michael Gove was warned by a senior and respected


head teacher about fears over radicalism. What did he know and


what did he act upon? We are hearing more reports of conversations about


fears, about radicalisation, taking over some of the governing bodies of


schools. We need to know what ministers did. Let me continue. You


mention the capital to prevent strategy. Was it gross negligence


for Labour to regularly consult a man who once headed a group


dedicated to making Britain an Islamic state and wrote a book about


schools full of Taliban style decrees. I think the events in


Birmingham are enormously significant. About the nature of


multiculturalism, the nature of education, the role of civic


education, the role of faith schools. I will say to you this


morning that Birmingham City Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party,


the Department for Education were all involved in this conversation.


In 2010, ministers were warned about potential radicalisation of schools


and they fell to act. We need to know why, for years on, they allowed


this situation to exacerbate. When you look at the record of labour and


this government 's record, there are plenty of examples where both of you


fail to act. Would it not be better to drop the party politics and get


together to confront this problem for the sake of the children?


have come forward with the Bishop of Birmingham talking about faith in


schools. If you have a minister failing to do their job, if you have


a minister being given warnings in 2010 and failing to act on them for


four years, the opposition has a role to hold the executive to


account. This is about the safety and standards of teaching for pupils


in Birmingham schools. It is about a great education for these young


people so they can succeed in a modern, multicultural Britain. Do


you agree with your Shadow Cabinet colleague, Rachel Reeves, that


Labour' as core voters are abandoning the party? She was


Labour' as core voters are the European Union. I am clear what


I want to achieve for Britain's future, to secure Britain's placed


in a reformed European Union and I have a strategy for delivering


that, a strategy for dealing with an issue which I think if we walk away


from it would see Britain drift towards the exits.


We've been joined from Berlin by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is


a senior figure in the EPP - that's the party backing Mr Juncker.


He's also Chairman of the Union of European Federalists.


And in our Newcastle newsroom is the former Conservative MEP Martin


Callanan who until last month led the European Conservatives


and Reformists group in Brussels. Welcome to you both.


The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary, they don't want Mr Junker, the new


Italian Prime Minister doesn't look keen either, should he bow out


gracefully? First of all, he wants to have Mr Junker but he wants to


have his conditions. Will he become president of the European Council, a


high representative? It is a discussion to be had in the next


three or four weeks until the European Parliament can elect the


president of the European Council after the proposal of the European


Council, which has to be done after consultation with the Parliament in


the light of the European elections and by a majority vote. If not Mr


Junker, then who? There are many available candidates, I am not going


to mention them in front of someone so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us


one name that you would prefer? The prime Minister of Sweden, Christine


Lagarde, the minister from Lithuania, these are people who have


a record of old reform. Junker is the ultimate Europe insider. We need


radical inform. We need to respond to the message the electorate gave


us in the elections -- radical reform. Junker said he had to lie in


public, he allowed the security services to conduct a dirty tricks


campaign against his opponent. This is not who we want leading the


European Commission. Elmar Brok since the European voters have sent


a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status


quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo?


First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks


against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man


who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro


group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the


financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible


financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who


works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in


Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government But


we need Europe more and he is not a man from the 80s. He is a man of


this century and in this century he made his own policy. He is the


winner of the European elections, he has a majority will stop Mrs


LANguard is not running because she knows she will not get the majority


in the European Parliament. -- Christine Lagarde is not running. It


is the Council of minister is that decides. No, the European Parliament


has the final word. The European Council can make a proposal by


majority in the light of the European elections after


consultation with the European Parliament. The council cannot get a


candidate against the will of the European Parliament. Mr Junker has a


majority in the European Parliament. Theoretically he is right, the


Parliament has do vote on the candidates proposed by the council.


I want to challenge the view that somehow he won the European


elections. There is no provision for Jean Claude Junker to stand in the


elections. He is saying that the EEP party got the most number of seats


in the Parliament but none of the electorate knew they were taking


part in this election. How many people who voted Labour in the


United Kingdom realised that their vote would count towards a German


socialist to be a candidate for the commission of presidency is a


nonsensical proposal. The elections were 28 individual elections with


hundreds of parties across Europe. To try to claim there is a


democratic mandate for somebody nobody has heard from Luxembourg to


take over the commission is a nonsense. People should know him, if


I should say that ironically. Newspapers talking about members of


the family of his wife with Nazi links... What is the answer to


Martin Callinan's point? I think it is clear that British Conservatives


have no candidate because they are not a broad European family, they


have not impacted on the selection of top candidates but it is a form


of isolation of the British Tory Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr


Junker is appointed it could lead to Britain drifting towards the EU


exit, is that credible? Is it melodramatic? It is true that we


want to renegotiate the relationship. We want some serious


reform in Europe so the people who vote in a referendum will be able to


vote to stay in if that is what they want. We need a bold reformer,


somebody prepared to engage. That is not anti the interests of the UK. We


need to recognise there is a problem with public perception of the


European Union. Elmar Brok is proud to be one of the last bastions of


federalism that that is not where most of the public opinion is in


Europe. I understand why he wants his man installed but we need to


take into account the message of the letter -- the electorate. 25% of the


publishing of France were prepared to vote for an openly racist party.


We can't just ignore the signal that the electorate were sending us. If


enthusiasm for federalism was at an all-time low, it would be a slap in


the face for the voters of Europe to have a federalist as the president,


would it not? 70, 80% of the members of the European Parliament, selected


by their people, are pro-Europeans. These are the winners of the


European elections. Even in France, a majority of voters have voted


pro-European and that should be clear, not to make this a populist


thing which is not only to do with Europe. And we want to have a Europe


which is strong, the member states should do their things. We do not


want to have a European centralism, we do not want a European state


This is not at stake. Let's talk about the question of better


governance, let's talk about what was wrong in the past, we have to


become better, to change our programme in that question. That


should be the way we lead to come to positive results. Thank you for


that. Before we go, there is a British commissioner that needs to


be appointed to Brussels, do you like the sound of that? These are


matters for the Prime Minister, I am sure he has many excellent


candidates. Do you like the sound of it? Like previous British


commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil clinic, I have just lost an election


-- Neil Kinnock for the everybody who is asked would serve, I'm sure.


Just days ago UKIP were celebrating topping the poll in the European


They're claiming they'd have had two more MEPs


and the Greens two fewer had another party not confused the electorate.


What's more UKIP say it's the fault of the body


which was set up to oversee elections - the Electoral Commission


This is a party celebrating success at the European elections. They


didn't win a single MEP but nationally polled 250,000 votes


They are an independence from Europe, mostly people who were once


in UKIP, and that is rather the point. They may look like capers,


drink like capers, sound like capers -- -- sound like kippers, but they


are not. The name and the logo were displayed on this banner when the


party launched its campaign. UKIP suggest the look, the wording and


the inclusion of UK in now confused voters, and are looking at rewriting


such a wrong. The way that seats are allocated in a European election


under a proportional representation system is using this formula. It was


invented by a Belgian mathematician in 1878 and it is essentially this.


When all of the votes have been tallied up, the one with the most


seats gets the first MEPC in a region. The others are allocated


using votes cast divided by the number of seats gained plus one --


first MEP seat in a region. UKIP were concerned with South West and


London. There they say, when the last MEP seats were being allocated,


if everyone who had voted for an independence from Europe had meant


to vote for UKIP and you tallied their votes up, and added them to


UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in each region and the greens would


have lost them. Whether you can prove that voters did that by


mistake is a very different matter. UKIP may have to just chalk it up to


experience. It has happened before, back in the European elections of


1994. Then in England under the first past the post system. This


man, Richard Huggett, decided to stand as a little Democrat and


polled a significant number of votes. The Liberal Democrat


candidate at the time is now an MP. Many people voted and afterwards


realised that they had bubbly voted for -- probably voted for a little


Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as they had been intending to do -


bubbly voted for a literal Democrat -- probably voted.


Mr Sanders got some consolation In 1998, laws came into rule on


so-called spoiler tactics and the Electoral Commission was


established. The Electoral Commission are based on the seventh


floor of this building and they did look into this issue prior to


voting. They have given us a statement that reveals the


conclusion they came to, part of which says, we decided that the name


of the party, and its description are sufficiently different to those


registered by the UK Independence Party, UKIP, to mean, in our


opinion, that voters were not likely to be confused if they appeared on


the same ballot paper. Pretty conclusive stuff. Back at the pub,


were an independence from Europe just being crafty, or do UKIP need


to wake up and smell the flowers? We attack them in all areas. An


independent study for Anglo Netherlands because I was involved


in the Dutch -- with the Dutch member of Parliament and the


description was UK Independence now, nobody has a monopoly on the word


independence. I have been fighting for independence since I started in


1994, before I joined UKIP. The party tell me they will stand again


at the general election next year. The ironies not lost on them or the


major parties of UKIP complaining that a smaller party has been taking


votes of them. Joining me now to discuss


this story is Gawain Towler. He's the UKIP candidate for the


South West region, who failed to get And in our Bristol studios is


the victorious Green MEP for How many of the 23,000 votes that


were cast for the Independence party were meant for you? Impossible to


tell. I want to congratulate Molly for getting elected. They are the


breaks. I do not think there is a purpose in complaining about boats


that are cast. Do you think you would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.


You have to look at the would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.


You have to look boats for parties people have not heard of and those


with a long tradition that people have heard of. I do not think there


is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled ballot papers, the amount of people


who had voted at the top and the bottom, most people are not anoraks,


they say, they are the people I want. They know what they are after.


I think it is at least told. It is said you owe your seat to And


Independence Party. It is strange for a man to say he could represent


people in the south-west better than me. There has been outpouring of


delight that a Green MP has finally been elected. A number of people


have been saying they have been voting all their lives and it is the


first time they have elected anybody. I am glad to represent them


in a significant legislature. What would you say to that? I find it


strange. I am perfectly happy for her to be elected. I feel the


electoral commission has questions to answer. But, congratulations to


Molly. Why do you want an extra seat for the Greens in the European


Parliament but your national share of the vote actually fell. We did


come under pressure nationally. If he is complaining about the role the


election commission said we could stand, the rule we were not happy


with was the off, ruling which said we were not a main party. We got


significantly less media time and that is why our belt actually fell.


Not on the Daily Politics or the Sunday Politics, where you were well


represented. Was it a problem for UKIP in other parts of the country?


Only in London. What do you think happened there? Very much the same.


I do not think there is any doubt, the number of people we have had


getting in touch saying, I am really sorry, I made a mess, that they


voted for the wrong party. They are the breaks. Politics is politics.


What I would like to see and what is reasonable, and I hope Molly would


agree, there needs to be a reform - a serious reform of the Electoral


Commission. There is no appeal process. They say it is not


confusing. Lets see if she thinks that. I make it a policy never to


agree with UKIP. What is important to note, if you look at the votes


and the way the votes fell out and the seats fell out in the


south-west, it is difficult for an Electoral Commission to turn boats


into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote and 33% of the seats. For them, the


system worked very well in the south-west. Nationally, Greens did


not get represented as the vote share would require. That is because


you get very small number of seats in the different regions and you


have to reach a high threshold. The Green Party has a right to complain


about the level of seats we have ended up with. White rapper you have


complaints about the Electoral Commission? We need to move to a


proportional system for elections generally. If we poll around 7% 8%,


we should be looking at having 0, 40 seats in the national


legislature. We need to consider proportional representation for


national elections. Do you accept the ballot paper may have confused


some people? I think what happened is that some people in UKIP were


very worried. Worried about the rightward move of UKIP and the


authoritarian leadership of Nigel Farage. He set up a separate party.


That is what happens in politics, particularly when parties are led by


demagogues and are not focused on Democratic policy. Do you have any


legal redress to this? None whatsoever. Have you had legal


advice? I am told there is no redress. We do feel, I am sure Molly


does not agree with UKIP on anything so, if we say the sun rises in the


morning, she probably will disagree with that. If, at the next election,


there is a party called the Grown Party, will she then complain? There


needs to be some level of accountability and, without that,


one wonders what is going on. We have an organisation with enormous


and important power and influence which is setup to stop this of thing


going on. It has failed. Not has it has failed. Not present served in


Tower Hamlets and there have been massive problems with postal votes.


It is failing on almost everything it is supposed to do. Just to go


back for a final point from Molly. Should there be a right of appeal to


the rulings of the Electoral Commission? You need to have an


authoritative body that makes decisions in this area and we have


the Electoral Commission. We say goodbye to viewers


in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 20 minutes,


we'll be discussing extremism are the newly elected MP for Newark.


What does that feel like? It is a great honour and I was absolutely


delighted. It has been a hard`fought campaign. I have been campahgning


since November so I did not just turn up for the by`election. It has


been a long road so I am delighted, very happy, and I want to work hard


and repay the trust local pdople here have put into me. Norm`lly


young MPs into the House of Commons as one of a big class. The class of


2014 is won and that's me! So hopefully it is good for Newark as


well. Hopefully we will havd more profile than we would otherwise have


had. You are not the new MP for Newark. How does that feel? Of


course we campaigned and intended to win. Coming second is never as good


as coming first, but, at thd same time, we increased our shardd by a


factor of six and halved thd Conservative majority and what we


showed, importantly, is that those who vote UKIP in Euro electhons a


very high proportion of thel are prepared to come forward to


Westminster elections and vote UKIP again. But you still didn't win We


didn't win but we are clearly the main first challenger to thd Tories


in Tory seats, and of coursd previous by`election experidnce


shows we are the main first challenger to Labour in Labour


seats, and that will take us through to success in 2015. They ard right,


aren't they, Vernon? Well, we will put forward what we believe and we


will take on the Tories and expose them for the failings of thd


Government as we see them and we will also expose Europe and hold


UKIP to account for the polhcies they promote. Just a few daxs ago,


for example, the UKIP leader saying they are in favour of gramm`r


schools. I think when peopld start to pick apart UKIP they will be ..


But a hugely disappointing result for Labour? We brought forw`rd


hugely important local issuds. The local MP will have to see where he


stands with respect to things like Newark Hospital and the A


department. We will hold Robert Jenrette to account to see whether


he delivers on the promises they have made. So, all eyes on xou, as I


said. You going to deliver? well, yes, to me, the election was local


people having a choice as to who they wanted to be their constituency


MP and who they thought was the most credible person to represent their


area. Where do you stand on the East Coast line? I said in the c`mpaign


infrastructure is the key and the infrastructure of the town, so road,


rail and broadband. I said H am not ideological on the east coast line.


I want the best possible service for passengers and if we can get fares


down and increase the number of services on the line, as yot see,


for example, on the West Co`st Main Line, where investment in rolling


stock has been around 300 mhllion in recent years compared to 30 or 0 on


the East Coast Main Line, so if we could get that in the process of


returning it to private owndrship, I think that is the best thing to


people up here in Newark and the surrounding area, Roger. Is that


something you overlooked in your campaign? Concentrating on


immigration? In any by`election campaign, you have national issues


and local issues. It would be a huge mistake to ignore either. I would


have been committed to camp`igning to getting the A back. We talked


about flood defences and local schools, local transport and


infrastructure. So, yes, we focused on local as well as national issues.


Where did you go wrong here, Vernon? Because you had a local candidate


but he just wasn't getting the message through? I thought we fought


a campaign on the local isstes, as you said. What we actually put


forward was what we thought were policies which were important to the


people of Newark, and come the general election and next ydar, when


people are making decisions about who they want to run the cotntry,


rather than making protests and voting Tory to prevent UKIP from


winning, as we saw in a locked. . But a lot of Lib Dem voters did vote


UKIP, didn't they? Sorry, a lot of Lib Dem voters voted Tory. They


voted Tory in order to prevdnt UKIP winning and I think that is


significant. That is worrying, though. They could do that `gain!


When you start to make choices about who you want to run the country and


who you want to walk into 10 Downing Street, that will make people


realise and think about where they place their vote, and clearly, they


won't want to see Nigel Far`ge walking into Downing Street, or


indeed, getting members of Parliament into Parliament where


they are going to talk about the sorts of things we have heard them


talking about on integration. Well, you know that it would have been


extremely unpopular talking about immigration in your party. Where you


let down by Nigel Farage? D`vid Cameron came here ten times to


support his candidate. Nigel Farage only came twice. That tells me they


cared a bit more about the seat I was delighted... He was not on


holiday! May I answer the qtestion, if you don't mind! I was delighted


he came when he did and we had a day `` we had a fantastic pre`election


talk. He is a figure who colmands enormous media attention. You


described him as box office in the Telegraph. But is that not ` problem


for candidates like yourself? He is the leader of our party and our


delegation in Brussels and our group in Brussels and he has lots of


pulls on his time. It's been quite a show


the last few weeks here in Newark. But what has the town got ott


of a by`election? Our political editor, John Hess


looks back at how the country's top politicians


have been falling over our It feels as though the circts has


finally left town and it can all be swept away, but how easy will it be


to sweep away those election pledges? Newark has two railway


stations. Northgate, with its fast links to King's Cross, making London


128 miles away in just over an hour's journey, and then thdre is


the Cinderella service, the Castle line. Just under an hour to cover


just 40 miles! But is this railway Cinderella about to go to the ball?


The train service is not up to scratch. We should be improving our


services between Lincoln and Nottingham and Newark, making sure


they are more regular and that there is a direct service to Notthngham.


It is all about securing Newark s economic future and the whole of the


East Midlands. The future of the hospital was another local campaign


issue. Would Accident Emergency be reinstated? The Labour Leaddr, Ed


Miliband, toured the wards. People are deeply worried about thd


downgrading of the A here. Labour is pledging to have 48 hour access


with your GP and that is good for health services but it is also good


for the hospital as well, bdcause you get people coming to thd


hospital, and I heard this today, you cannot get proper access. Jeremy


Hunt also came here and within a week the head of NHS England


announced a significant polhcy change. Services will no longer be


shifted to because that is `s a matter of course. Instead, smaller


hospitals will have enhanced services. Is that another shgn of


the by`election affect? How are you going to improve the area's schools?


On the eve of the poll, a round table candidate debate at r`dio


Nottingham. This election commitment was made about local schools. The


school is going to be rebuilt, it is going to be fantastic. I reviewed


the plans with the headteacher and we are going to move forward from


there. I want to see Magnus have the same treatment and Toothill, because


they have another block unddr way and there is clearly more to be


done. Michael Gove also camd to talk up plans about rebuilding the


town's rundown secondary schools. And this was Nigel Farage on a


visit. I get it, I understand it. Over the months to come on Sunday


Politics, we will keep an exe on how and when those pledges are


fulfilled. In a moment, we'll be finding out


what our guests think about that. But first let's go to Tim P`rker,


who's down there, I am in amongst the British bulldog


festival looking at how to help rescue dogs. They are a passing


grade but they can slobber ` bit and my next guest knows all abott that,


we both do, because we have already had some of that around our legs


this afternoon! Let's talk `bout the effect UKIP has been having,


especially recently. Put thdse results into perspective. What does


it mean for them? For UKIP, this is actually quite is accessibld result.


Nigel Farage has recently come out and said, listen, we did not expect


to win. And I think that is probably true. That is not an area conducive


`` normally conducive to th`t demographic but I think it has done


what they wanted, meaning they were able to show they are seriots


contenders for ACT in Westmhnster. Right across the East Midlands, many


seats have been divided with Labour in that way. How is the UKIP


landscape going to change that? That is the interesting thing. For a long


time there was this percepthon that they were pulling from the Tory


Party. And what we have seen recently through the Europe`n


elections is that that is not only the case, so they have actu`lly been


pulling a lot of traditional Labour supporters, which I think w`s


unexpected from the party's perspective, so perhaps Labour was


not expecting that. One intdresting thing to see will be that in


different constituencies, all the parties will have to be prepared to


take this challenge from UKHP because they are not sure where this


support will come from. We have heard on this programme alrdady that


they are the challenger in so many seas. You think that's right? ``


seats. It will be interesting to see because they have had a challenge


transferring their European success into a general election, but one of


the things we see with this data, this survey data, is that they say


they will stay loyal in a gdneral election but if that is the case,


they will be strong challengers across a number of seats in


different parts of the country, including in the north`east and the


North West. So it is a bit soon to tell. There is much work to be done


in the next year but it could be true. Finally, this makes otr job


very difficult in terms of predicting what will happen next. It


will be very unpredictable hn the next year. UKIP will have to do a


lot of work, particularly on a domestic programme. They have been


very successful at deepening amongst groups already likely to support


them but if they want to take seats, they need to cut across these


groups who traditionally don't favour UKIP, and women in p`rticular


will be a challenge for UKIP, so if they can do this, we are gohng to


see a very ample addict for situation, which, for peopld like


me, means it is very exciting. `` a very unpredictable situation. I m


going to go along here and have a go at naming some of these dogs after


that! So, talking about the potential way UKIP can make gains.


There are plenty of marginal seats where all it takes is anothdr 1 ,000


votes and you are in troubld. I am thinking Sherwood, rock Stowe, and


the valley, all of those pl`ces It was a by`election and those are in


a sense, a test of the government. In Newark 50% of people chose to


stick with the Government. H think that is because things are hmproving


locally and nationally. We have had almost 8000 jobs created since 010


here. The East Midlands is the fastest`growing part of the British


economy. Of course there is a way to go but things are improving and the


feedback I had on the doorstep is that people don't want to ttrn back


the clock and risk the recovery so I do have confidence in my fellow


MPs, in the likes of Sherwood. Some of the analysis we have been looking


at points to the fact that xou might have, Roger, a problem with women


voters. They don't seem to like Nigel Farage. You call him box


office, they might disagree. Not all of them, clearly. But in sole of the


polls we have seen. You will see they are either preferred bx men or


women with any party. We just had 24 UKIP MEPs elected and six of those


women, and they are very good women indeed. You probably saw Di`ne James


on the coverage of the by`election on the Andrew Neil Show. Shd was


superb so I am delighted we are now putting forward very strong and


capable women as UKIP MEPs `nd I believe that will appeal to women


voters. Woodward talking about the potential for UKIP to get into these


marginal seats. `` we were talking. You must be feeling more vulnerable


now? Nobody takes this seat for granted and I certainly don't. But


for the Labour Party and those seas we have just mentioned, Sherwood,


Amber Valley, all of those seats across the Keys Midlands, the Labour


Party is working very hard. `` those seats we have mentioned. We will put


for the alternatives and hold the Government to account on thd cost of


living crisis and the fact that people aren't feeling the bdnefits


of the limited growth now t`king place. And, as I said, we whll also


expose UKIP for what they are in terms of their policy and what they


will do. And we will expose you Just tell me, what seats can you win


here in the East Midlands? We talked about marginals. Which ones are you


going for? We are developing a targeted strategy for once we


consider marginals and UKIP potential, but I am certainly not


going to make wild guesses on air. You were rather speaking to Robert


as if UKIP only takes Conservative votes. We don't. We take votes


across the board. Former Lib Dems, former Labour... You will t`ke them


from wherever! We also take votes from those who haven't voted for 20


years and they see something they now liked. Your leader described you


towards the later end of yotr years. As age got something to do with it?


I don't want to be a just! H was the only one with Parliamentary


experience and the one with by far the most business experiencd, which


is a good thing. Will new stand again? We will be looking after the


dust had settled and putting forward appropriate candidates for the


seats, so it would not be stitable for me to make that statement.


Besides, we have adopted a local constituency... But would you like


to stand again? I'm looking forward to moving back to Brussels tomorrow


and I'm looking forward to representing the people of Newark in


Brussels if not in Westminster. Robert, you have a real taste of


what being in the limelight is like with the spotlight on you. Ht all


got rather personal as well, saying your background was privileged. How


did that all feel? It is politics, isn't it? It shouldn't be btt it is.


We fought an unrelenting and positive campaign and unlikd the


other parties, we were focused on the local issues, so if you look at


the leaflets people are now chucking in their dustbins after the


by`election, while others wdre talking about their national issues,


we were talking about hospitals the railways... We talked about local


issues constantly! You had `lready given `` UKIP our `` had already


given up on Newark is Mac you going to stand up?! We felt that there


were great things for the country which were great things for Newark


as well. Listen to the political man speaking! You haven't actually said


whether you are going to st`nd or not. I've replied to that qtestion


already and I refer you to ly previous answer! I guess ond of the


biggest concerns is the turnout and only 52% turned out to vote, and in


a hotly contested seat wherd everything was thrown against. This


is what you are up against, isn t it? Everybody would agree that


clearly when it comes to trtst in politics, there is a job for all of


us to do and we can all agrde on that. This is about trying to, once


again, say to people we havd listened and we understand what you


are saying and then act upon it But as one of the things UKIP are


saying. As I say, not enough... When people listen to what UKIP stand


for, I think then they will come to a different conclusion. I'm sorry.


We will have to go into our 62nd round `` 60`second round up.


The Charnwood MP Stephen Durrell is stepping down from his role as


chairman of the Health Select Committee. He says he will have more


freedom to debate health policy and laughed at claims that he is


preparing for a post Newark by`election reshuffle. The


Government's help to buy scheme has been raised as a concern by the


North Leicestershire MP. Though he says many have been able to buy


under the scheme. John Mann has been an usually quiet, for good reason.


He is up a mountain! The experienced climber is scaling the 19,000 foot


mountain in Ecuador to raisd money for the British Legion. As tradition


now demands, Dennis Skinner interrupted the pomp and


circumstance of the opening of Parliament with a well timed quip.


count, I went to Newark bushness club and then went to open ` pub!


Monday we are opening a prilary school. So it will be a busx time.


Wednesday, looking forward to going to the House of Commons. I'l going


back to Brussels, looking forward to meeting the other newly elected UKIP


MEPs. And a lot of work to be done for Labour. I think that's where we


have to leave it. Thank you for my guests. That is it for the Sunday


Politics in London. Back to Andrew. about some of the strategies to


influence. These strategies are known as gradualism. The idea, like


the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is to join the institutions of society


and influence from within -- from within. It is a gradual approach to


Islamicisation society. We have seen that happening in other areas, such


as the decision by the Law Society to call it shy and issue it out as


guidance for solicitors. They are saying this means that women inherit


half of what men saying this means that women inherit


and adopted children do not get any inheritance. Apostates do not get


any inheritance. These are guidelines being issued by the Law


Society by Islamic. It is a medieval take on Islam. That is what is


meant. We see the same names popping up again and again in different


situations in Birmingham. Is it a planned infiltration? In my


profession of you and planned infiltration? In my


profession of you having spent 3 years on the leadership of an


Islamist organisation, having been involved


Islamist organisation, having been and setting up schools, I am very


Islamist organisation, having been certain is a deliberate plan to


influence the students of this country with a medieval


interpretation of my own faith to bring about a medieval, conservative


view, and enforce things like segregation on boys and girls within


our public institutions. With these things be acceptable if they were


explicitly they schools? If they were state. We had state Anglican


faith schools. We have state Catholic faith schools as well.


Would it be acceptable if these were state Islamic schools? That is a


policy question. I am not generally in favour. I would believe in this


establishment. I am not a fan of faith schools. I do think the


solution is to ban them. I do think these schools should start working


out with an engaging with the wider communities and not being insular


and looking inwards. It is very important. The Ofsted report is


coming out tomorrow. We have already had a taste about what it is saying


about some of the schools. Is it a serious problem? It is a very


serious problem. It comes from the segregation of children into


intensely populated areas where everyone is Muslim virtually. You


have to have a system of spreading children between schools. It very


often happens, even with a secular school like this. Nearby Catholic or


Church of England schools become like-for-like schools and that


leaves the rest of the state schools to become all of one faith. I think


all of the parties are being quite hypocritical about the profound


problem of continuing to have faith schools. You have Orthodox Jewish


schools with extraordinary dogma being taught. Indeed very strict


Catholic schools with amazing dogma being taught. To somehow only get


worried when it is Islamic, when it is Muslim schools, becomes a


problem. You have to look at the whole issue and said the state


should simply withdraw from the business of faith education. Like


France? Yes, a secular school. The overall government policy is to take


power away. The dilemma with that is that it comes with dangers. Some


schools will be incompetent and some schools will be more than


incompetent, they will be maligned in some respects. The one bit of


this policy which has never been entirely squared is how do you


devolve and retain a basic minimum of educational standards and


behavioural standards while doing it? There is an even deeper quandary


for Britain. We have prided ourselves on allowing radical views


that stop short of violence. We took on Karl Marx and the rest of Europe


would not have him. The rest of Europe could not believe how


tolerably well of radical preachers in the 1990s. Do we stick with that


view? The risks were greater than they were 100 years ago. We do


expect, whatever peoples faith, that our children, at the expense of the


taxpayer, are educated, not instructed, not indoctrinated,


educated. We do expect that and also that boys and girls are treated


equally. One of the things the board in Birmingham will be looking at


which has Andrew Mitchell on it the former development Secretary,


because he is a Birmingham MP full Sutton, they are really concerned


about whether the girls are being treated as second-class citizens.


There has been a lot of work done on empowerment of girls. Shirley


Williams made the point that what Michael Gove has done by creating


free schools and academies is undermined the work of local


education authorities. They think they are traditional bodies which


are not open to reform. One school in Birmingham which is accused of


being in trouble is a local education school. They cannot have


the other side. Under Michael Gove, they are answerable to the Secretary


of State. It is down to Ofsted. Ofsted is giving the schools, not


that long ago, outstanding marks. There are big questions about the


oversight of schools. Tristan Hunt was trying to answer that point By


tapping it cannot all have gone pear shaped in two years. How do you


think that will play out? -- it cannot have gone pear shaped. The


story was broken in February. It will keep playing out. The report


that was due out Ofsted is tomorrow or Monday. Then there is the other


report that will look into wider questions, that will come out in


July, I think. We are expecting two points. -- reports. We have to look


at questions of Ofsted and other institutions in our society, even


government departments, where idea of taxing non-violent extremism


became a too boot in this country. -- a taboo. They must be rebuffed


the challenge, as we would expect racism to be challenged. In the


argument between Michael Gove and Theresa May, where do you side? They


should be challenged openly and robust leap by civilian society It


was settled by the Prime Minister and is government policy. I had a


hand in advising or consulting. I think Fiona Cunningham was forced to


resign because what she did violates official government policy. It just


has not been implemented yet. Will Mr Cameron succeed with Juncke?


You'll agree he have to decide whether he will spirit at stopping


him or accepting him as commission president and ask in return for a


massive commission portfolio for Britain, something like the internal


market, which they missed out on last time. It is a diplomatic


decision he have to make. It is too late for that he is into deep. If he


takes over the job, Cameron is left with egg on its face. From the


beginning, he did not have his voice with the weight of the British


Conservative Party, with ankle and Arkle, the rest of them. He is


reaping -- Angela Merkel, the rest of them. He is reaping that reward.


There is a lot of support within Europe. In Germany, there was a lot


of opposition to David Cameron getting his way. I know him from


Brussels. He is entertaining, you go to dinner with him and he smokes and


drinks. He is entertaining but he is the most awful person you could


think of having trying to sort of symbolise a new European Union. I


remember I was there join the Luxembourg presidency in 2005 when


the voters in France and the Netherlands voted no to the European


constitution, what was his response to that? Let's carry on with the


ratification process of this treaty that has been comprehensively


rejected by voters. He did not say the final bit of that sentence. You


can see why Eurosceptics want him. He has blown a raspy at all the


people who have protested at the elections with the way the European


Union is going. -- blown a Rasberry. This is your most popular... What


has come in most recently is doing really well. This is yours. There we


go. Cheers! By our people so cynical? They always go for a drink


at 11am and they pull their own pipes. I see them every day. -- pts.


Is there anything Mr Clegg can do is to mark the idea is to define


clearly a liberal brand, or at least I hope it is. It is not good enough


for us to say the Liberal Democrats challenge the Tories on this, on the


fairer society, and challenge the Labour Party on a strong economy. We


need to define what we stand for. That is what I call a liberal brand,


assertive liberalism. I have been there myself and I think that is


what he will be speaking about. Standing up for liberal values, to


finding -- defining what they are. Disestablishment in getting younger


people re-engage with politics. The overwhelming number are actually


liberal. We only have about 20 seconds. I suggest to you it is too


late. Sign up with the one principle on which he stood is Europe. -- the


one principle on which he stood if Europe. That is why he has been


doing so badly. He cannot get out of the hole he is in. If you fight


three general elections to the left of Labour and on the third when you


are in coalition with the Tories, you have got a problem. I will be


back next week. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.


What's the hardest thing about being a foster parent?


You're constantly trying to build the elusive trust.


It's like a big old question mark in your heart.


I just try and do the best I can for them while they're with me


Join Lorraine Pascale as she looks at stories of fostering...


I wasn't happy at all, but now I am. ..including her own.


Nice to know finally where I came to the world.


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