Browse content similar to 15/06/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Well, this is the closest I'll get to Rio. | :00:37. | :00:43. | |
The advance of the Islamist army on Baghdad has been slowed. | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
The Iraqi army claims the fightback has begun. | :00:49. | :00:50. | |
But the country now faces a de facto partition. | :00:51. | :00:52. | |
What should Britain, Europe, or the US be doing - if anything? | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
It's been a big week in the Scottish referendum. | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
But has the tone of the debate become too downright nasty? | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
Both sides join us to go head to head. | :01:03. | :01:09. | |
I will swap Ed Miliband for Tim Farren. What is the significance of | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
that? In East Midlands, what you think | :01:14. | :01:15. | |
even Westminster, we'll be asking In East Midlands, what you think | :01:16. | :01:28. | |
about immigration? Who cares In London, why the minority vote one | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
recent elections Labour, but recent support amongst people is bigger | :01:32. | :01:32. | |
than assumed. The Sunni Islamist army known | :01:33. | :01:43. | |
as ISIS is now in control of huge swathes of northern | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
and western Iraq, including Until the weekend they looked | :01:47. | :01:48. | |
like advancing relentlessly on Baghdad but that offensive has | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
now been slowed or even halted The Iraqi army | :01:53. | :01:54. | |
and its Shia milita allies vow that Baghdad will not be taken and that | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
a counter-attack will soon begin. Iraq's Shia Prime Minister Nouri | :02:00. | :02:06. | |
al-Maliki has to do something to reverse the humiliation | :02:07. | :02:08. | |
of recent days, which saw his US-trained and equipped Iraqi | :02:09. | :02:10. | |
army, which outnumbered the Islamists 15 to 1 melt away or | :02:11. | :02:16. | |
surrender when confronted by ISIS. The conflict has already created a | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
humanitarian crisis, with hundreds The Kurds have used the conflict to | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
consolidate their hold on their autonomous area in the north, parts | :02:23. | :02:32. | |
of the west and the north are in the grip of ISIS control and the Shias | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
are hunkering down in the east. All of which makes a three-way | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
partition a real possibility with The US is moving another | :02:40. | :02:41. | |
of its massive aircraft carrier battlefleets to the Gulf, | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
though the White House shows no While Iran says it's ready to help | :02:47. | :02:48. | |
its Shia allies and there are unconfoirmed reports | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
that its revolutionary guard has Well, I'm joined now by Newsnight's | :02:54. | :02:55. | |
diplomatic editor Mark Urban. Let's start with some basics. Who | :02:56. | :03:14. | |
are ISIS and why are they controlling big chunks of Iraq? ISIS | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
is an extremist militant jihad organisation and they have a pure | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
Islamic concept based on 14th century history and jurisprudence. | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
What they want to do is correct -- create this caliphate that do not | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
recognise colonial boundaries so it involves Syria and Iraq, and they | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
could go down to Lebanon and Palestine, that is all fair game as | :03:40. | :03:42. | |
far as they are concerned. And they have this strict interpretation of | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
Islam. The more interesting question is why have semi-Sunni Muslims, | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
along with them, these are precisely the sort of people who in 2006, | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
2007, tribal leaders in the west of the country rose up against. It was | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
called the Awakening and the Americans in power did and | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
bankrolled it. These people turned against them and admired them in | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
large numbers, so why do they have so many Sunni Muslims on their | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
side? We hear about people going back to Mosul. I think the answer is | :04:16. | :04:18. | |
a perception back to Mosul. I think the answer | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
that the current government is ruling in sectarian interests, Shia | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
Muslim interest, and the Sunni Muslims want self-determination and | :04:26. | :04:27. | |
this is their best bet. Muslims want self-determination and | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
this is their Let me put up this map to find out where we are going. We | :04:33. | :04:35. | |
can see Mosul in the north, they took that, and then they started, | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
South, reports that the crit was involved -- to grit -- to grit. What | :04:41. | :04:49. | |
is the situation on the ground now? We are in what you might call a | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
consolidation or strategic pause as American called it in 2003. ISIS are | :04:54. | :05:01. | |
trying to consolidate their power in Mosul, and now they have this major | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
city and they are trying to show they can run the city and get the | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
power going, etc. Their southernmost forces, that is a gorilla army, guys | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
in pick-up trucks. They cannot deal with serious opposition. They would | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
like to get the tanks and other things into action but that could | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
take weeks for them to be able to do it. The government side is that they | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
have counter-attacked, but it will take a little while before these | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
newly raised militia and other task forces, call them what you will can | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
effectively counter-attacked. But that is what will happen in the next | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
week or two. We will see increasingly large and serious | :05:43. | :05:44. | |
government counter-attacked trying to retake those places, and I fear a | :05:45. | :05:53. | |
really difficult, bloody Syrian style street by street battle for | :05:54. | :06:00. | |
some of these urban centres. I would like to have a look at this map | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
because the Kurds, as I mentioned, they are consolidating their | :06:07. | :06:08. | |
position in the autonomous region in the north. The Islamist are taking | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
over huge chunks of the Sunni Muslim West. And of course the Shia Muslim | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
are still dominant in control of Baghdad and in parts of the south | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
and east. Back to me looks like the beginnings of the partition of Iraq. | :06:25. | :06:33. | |
-- back to me. Well, it is, but we have to caveat it in a few ways | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
Firstly, there are millions of people in Iraq, so-called sushi | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
combined families, who do not fit easily into the pattern. Do we see | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
millions of people becoming refugees under this scheme? There would be a | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
lot of human tragedies if people really did try to enforce this type | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
partition. Secondly, there are Sunni Muslim communities in the south of | :06:57. | :07:03. | |
Baghdad, those places, once again, a lot of misery and fighting will | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
occur if people try to enforce a de facto partition. There are still an | :07:09. | :07:20. | |
awakening of forces. They are on the side of the government. We heard | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
about one group in Samarra of Sunni Muslims fighting on the same side. | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
It's a complex picture. They factor, it does look like a partition, and | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
if it goes further in that direction it will. And partition will always | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
be messy because people end up on the wrong side of the lies. | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
Finally, the big thing on that map, Iran, a huge place, a huge border | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
with Shia Muslim Iraq. Iran now becomes a key factor. It is becoming | :07:49. | :07:55. | |
a proxy war for Iran. Yes, when I was in Baghdad a few months ago I | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
did actually see Iranians revolutionary guards in uniform | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
They were protecting a senior Iranians official, so some numbers | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
have been never some time and they are also said to protect the | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
political leaders and -- in his compound. They are there. We think | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
more of them are trying to organise the defence of Baghdad to galvanise | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
the Iraqi army, and they will not allow the Iraqi government to fall. | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
Mark, thank you for marking archive this morning. -- marking our card. | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
Tony Blair took Britain into the Iraq conflict in 2003. | :08:32. | :08:33. | |
He's now, among other things, envoy to the Middle East representing | :08:34. | :08:36. | |
That's the UN, the EU, the US and Russia. | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
This morning he entered the debate about what should be | :08:40. | :08:41. | |
My point is simple. If you left Saddam in place in 2003, when 2 11 | :08:42. | :08:52. | |
happened and you have the Arab revolutions going through Tunisia, | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
Libya, Yemen, Bahrain and Egypt and Syria, you would still have had a | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
major problem in Iraq. You can see what happens when you leave the | :09:04. | :09:06. | |
dictator in place, as has happened with Bashar al-Assad. The problem | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
doesn't go away. What I'm trying to say is, we can rerun the debates | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
about 2003, and there are perfectly legitimate points on either side, | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
but where we are in 2014, we have do understand that this is a regional | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
problem, but a problem that will affect us. | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
And I'm joined by the former Foreign Office minister Mark Malloch-Brown, | :09:27. | :09:28. | |
Here in London are James Rubin, he was chief spokesman | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
for the State Department under Bill Clinton, and Bayan Rahman, | :09:33. | :09:34. | |
she represents the Kurdistan Regional government in the UK. | :09:35. | :09:47. | |
Intervened in Iraq, it's a shambles, we don't intervene in Syria, it s a | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
shambles. What lessons should we draw? That is a well framed | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
question, because that is the problem. Tony Blair is half right. | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
Iraq, like Syria, would probably have been a problem even without an | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
intervention. But one wishes someone would tell him to stay quiet during | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
moments like this, because it does drive a great surge of people in the | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
other direction. The fact is, what has been missing in western politics | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
towards the Middle East throughout both episodes, Syria and Iraq, is a | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
drive to build an inclusive, democratic centre which is secular | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
and nonsectarian. That has been missing amongst the threats of | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
invasion Manon invasion, we have just constantly neglected the | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
diplomatic nation-building dimensional this. I want to come | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
onto what is happening on the ground. I want to begin with what | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
the Western response by me, and by that we mean the United States, | :10:48. | :10:49. | |
because of it doesn't do anything, nobody will do anything. All of the | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
signals I see coming out of the White is that Barack Obama has no | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
appetite for intervention -- out of the White House. I don't think he | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
does have an appetite. He would be very unlikely to do anything very | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
large. He might feel pressured to act because of the fact that this | :11:09. | :11:14. | |
particular group, this Al-Qaeda inspired group, fits into the | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
strategy he has pursued in Yemen and Afghanistan and Pakistan, to use | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
drone strikes against individual terrorists. So it is possible that | :11:23. | :11:33. | |
the threat of ISIS in the region and the West in general might inspire | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
him to act, but the idea he will do enough, militarily, to transform | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
Iraq from its current state of civil War into something along the lines | :11:43. | :11:49. | |
that Mark was talking about, nation-building diplomacy, a big | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
operation, I don't see President Obama sees his historic mission as | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
having got the United States as out of it. Leave it to the Pacific, | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
perhaps. What would the Kurds like the West to do? First of all, in | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
Kurdistan we face a huge humanitarian crisis. We already have | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
had bought a quarter of a million Syrian refugees and we were | :12:14. | :12:16. | |
struggling to cope with that. And now we have at least double that | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
number of refugees coming from Mosul. First and foremost, we are | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
calling on the international community to help us with that. So | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
we need humanitarian aid? Let's assume we do that in some way, maybe | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
not enough, but what else if anything? I think it is an incumbent | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
on the west and other powers to assist Iraq to get rid of ISIS. I | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
think the Sunni Arab community, some of whom have joined ISIS and may be | :12:45. | :12:51. | |
supported the uprising, have justified complaints against the | :12:52. | :12:58. | |
federal government. But we need the terrorists out of Iraq. That is | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
first and foremost. And what the West can do is not necessarily | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
intervene with boots on the ground, but provide technical assistance, | :13:06. | :13:08. | |
provide intelligence and help the Iraqi army and air force to be more | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
targeted. Can you defend yourselves? In Kurdistan, we can in terms of the | :13:15. | :13:21. | |
disciplined troops. In this situation, I hope they won't be | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
abandoning their post, that is for sure. It is a national cause fires. | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
But we are not armed in the way that the Iraqi army is -- cause for us. | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
We are not armed in the way that ISIS seems to be now they have | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
seized some of the American kit We are not asking for weapons, but we | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
ask for assistance for all of Iraq to deal with the situation. Mark, | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
this is not just an Iraqi problem. This is a regional conflict, and | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
from the Levant on the shores of the Mediterranean, all the way through | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
to the Gulf, the region is gripped with what is essentially a Sunni and | :13:58. | :14:04. | |
Shia Muslim sectarian war. Yes, with the caveats that Mark bourbon made | :14:05. | :14:07. | |
earlier, it's not quite that straightforward, but the basic | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
divide is exactly that -- Mark Urban. People have been looking for | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
this to begin in Lebanon or Jordan and have been taken by surprise | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
although with hindsight I'm not sure why, that it has begun in Iraq | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
instead. At its most extreme, it risks redrawing the 20th century | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
boundaries of the region in a way which would be highly unstable | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
because it would pit a Shia Muslim bloc against the Sunni Muslim bloc | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
and would undo all of the sort of social and economic advance of the | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
last century, so the stakes are suddenly very, very high indeed Are | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
we seeing the redrawing? The lines were drawn secretly, not far from | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
here, about a mile away, and may have survived through thick and | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
thin. They now look pretty fragile. The map is being redrawn. I think it | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
is true that there is a key factor partition going on -- des facto | :15:04. | :15:10. | |
Woodrow Wilson probably gave a bit of a hand to the promotion of the | :15:11. | :15:17. | |
idea of self-determination, and in a way, there is a self determination | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
going on, particularly in the Kurdish region, and perhaps they may | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
end up the big winners in all of this, because they have proceeded | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
with a relatively moderate, reconcilable government. The key | :15:31. | :15:32. | |
thing that the Kurdish region has done. They used to fight the two | :15:33. | :15:43. | |
groups, and now they fight together. What the Sunni Muslims have not done | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
is figure out how to let politics let the side things instead of guns. | :15:49. | :15:56. | |
We need to look clearly and in Syria and Iraq, if there is a Sunni | :15:57. | :16:03. | |
extremist with ISIS that carves out a place for itself, it will be the | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
great irony of the modern era. President Bush said he wanted to go | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
into Iraq to fight terrorism. There was no terrorist. There are now If | :16:14. | :16:20. | |
in Iraq and Syria together thereat a thousand strong Al-Qaeda capability | :16:21. | :16:27. | |
that threatens the region, the West, the world, we are all going to | :16:28. | :16:28. | |
have to do something about it. The danger is that power will | :16:29. | :16:57. | |
spread. This could grow in power. You would not want it on your | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
southern border. Absolutely, we would not. The point we are all | :17:03. | :17:05. | |
making indirectly is that things have changed in Iraq and will never | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
be the same again. Whether Iraq completely disintegrates into three | :17:12. | :17:13. | |
countries, or whether it stays together as one country, but a | :17:14. | :17:15. | |
countries, or whether it stays together as one country, but loose | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
federation, either way, Iraq has changed. It will not go back to what | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
it was. I hope it will change for the better. I think we're at the | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
make or break point for Iraq. Either the political readers -- the | :17:30. | :17:37. | |
political leaders of a right wake up and smell the coffee and put aside | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
their differences or there will be problems. This provides that | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
opportunity, in a very nasty way. If we take it? Yes, and if not, I | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
opportunity, in a very nasty way. If this is the end of a rack as we know | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
it. If anything resembling a caliphate emerges, | :17:57. | :18:41. | |
it. If anything resembling a autonomous federal-state. Any | :18:42. | :18:43. | |
support for the government must be premised on that. There is no | :18:44. | :18:46. | |
military solution for this which is in | :18:47. | :19:46. | |
military solution for this which is big issues. When Britain and France | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
carved up the Middle East, they were world powers, operating as global | :19:51. | :19:53. | |
powers, and without that global leadership by somebody, this is just | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
going to get worse and worse. I think we will leave it there, thank | :19:59. | :20:00. | |
you very much. The danger is that power will | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
spread. This could grow in power. It is just under 100 days until the | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
referendum on Scottish independence. So, for once, | :20:11. | :20:13. | |
it'll be a long hot-summer But the campaign isn't | :20:14. | :20:15. | |
just getting heated. In places it's also | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
down-right nasty. When Scotland's best-selling author | :20:21. | :20:22. | |
announced she was giving the unionist cause a million pounds | :20:23. | :20:24. | |
this week, she received Independence supporters online, | :20:25. | :20:26. | |
so-called cybernats, called JK Rowling a traitor | :20:27. | :20:34. | |
and much worse, using a variety of For its part, the Better Together | :20:35. | :20:37. | |
campaign has been accused Even Gordon Brown seems to think so, | :20:38. | :20:40. | |
and this week he criticised Conservative ministers | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
for relying on "threats With the Edinburgh Festival | :20:45. | :20:46. | |
approaching, reports suggest even comedians are now reluctant to | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
engage in the subject because I'm joined by Blair Jenkins from | :20:52. | :20:53. | |
Yes Scotland and Jackie Baillie They're both in our Glasgow studio, | :20:54. | :21:00. | |
and they're going head to head. Blair Jenkins, let me come to you | :21:01. | :21:20. | |
first. Why have you and the Better Together campaign and Alex Salmond | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
not done more to slap down the cyber nationalists who are poisoning the | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
debate? Good morning. I think both sides tried to stop the tiny number | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
of people on both sides who are incapable of controlling | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
themselves. We should not get this out of proportion. We are having a | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
fantastic, decent and democratic debate. The people who probably | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
total no more than 100 on both sides who post offensive material or not | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
to be allowed to deflect from that fact. Of course there are nasty | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
people on the Better Together side as well, but are you saying there | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
are as many of those as the cyber nationalists? I have not done the | :22:00. | :22:05. | |
Kent. Lots of people are certainly posting nasty in defensive things to | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
people in the yes campaigners well. I imagine that people do what I do, | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
and block them. You stop them from sending anything further. There is a | :22:16. | :22:22. | |
democratic and in gauging progress going on throughout Scotland. It is | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
characterised by good humour and good debate. We should not get out | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
of proportion and the activities of the number of people. I want to get | :22:30. | :22:36. | |
to Jackie Baillie. The debate is actually pretty good-humoured and | :22:37. | :22:38. | |
you should be doing more about the nasties on your side as well? I | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
think we have reached a new low this week. Despite many people engaging | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
in the politics of the decision and the debate about that, whether we | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
want to retain the best of both worlds are separate from the United | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
Kingdom, what we have seen is the most abusive and vitriolic attack, | :22:59. | :23:05. | |
particularly on women, JK Rowling and a Labour supporter who dared to | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
support the no campaign. When you look at the number of people on | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
social media, there are more from the yes campaign than the no site. | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
We should all be condemning attacks, from whatever quarter they come | :23:21. | :23:28. | |
This seemed to be connected to the office of the First Minister. What | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
is the evidence for that? There was an e-mail from one of the... I | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
understand about that, but it did not use vile words. It did not, but | :23:38. | :23:46. | |
it repeated the same mistake as on the website. We should be clear that | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
we need to condemn these attacks, but it is not just the water works, | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
it is taking action. There was an IpsosMORI poll this week which was | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
varying testing. It showed the population as a whole, farmer people | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
think that Yes Scotland is running an effective campaign as against | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
Better Together. It is a undecided voters think this by a majority of | :24:11. | :24:19. | |
four 21. Some people are worried about of the campaign. JK Rowling, | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
Scotland's most successful author of all time. She gives ?1 million to | :24:24. | :24:29. | |
the Better Together campaign. She then faces some of the most | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
incredible abuse. I know what it is like because I have had some myself. | :24:34. | :24:41. | |
Traitor, Quisling. I cannot use some of the words, it is Sunday morning. | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
Why does Scottish Nationalists culture have such a revolting | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
fringe? JK Rowling is entitled to our views and it is unacceptable if | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
people say offensive things about her or anyone else who voices and | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
opinion in this debate. Who are obese people? When you look at the | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
accounts of some of the people who were posting these things about JK | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
Rowling, they were using the same sort of language about film stars | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
and football stars. This was just part of their language on Twitter. | :25:12. | :25:18. | |
How often has Alex Salmond condemned the cyber nationalists? Very often. | :25:19. | :25:26. | |
Everyone in the campaign hands. By common consent, Yes Scotland is | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
running a thoroughly positive campaign, much more positive than | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
Better Together. Jackie Baillie it hardly helps matters when Alistair | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
Darling, who runs your campaign compares Alex Salmond to Kim Jong Il | :25:41. | :25:43. | |
and North Korea. That hardly elevates the debate? I think we need | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
to elevate the debate. There are less than a hundred days to go. It | :25:50. | :25:56. | |
is a massive decision. We need to elevate the debate beyond attacks. I | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
think there is much more that Yes Scotland and the SNP can do. You | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
have made that point. Why are you running a campaign based on fear? | :26:09. | :26:14. | |
The codename of your campaign is even project fear. It is threats. | :26:15. | :26:21. | |
You cannot have the pound, there will be no shipbuilding. You will be | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
flooded by immigrants. Why are you so negative? I am not negative at | :26:26. | :26:31. | |
all and neither is the campaign The campaign has asked questions and I | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
think it is legitimate to ask questions of the people proposing | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
such a fundamental change. People care about the economy, their jobs, | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
their families. What would happen to them if they leave the rest of the | :26:45. | :26:50. | |
United Kingdom. I think it is legitimate to ask questions. I | :26:51. | :26:52. | |
refuse to be asked of scaremongering. People deserve | :26:53. | :27:00. | |
answers. The yes campaign is equally guilty of some of the most | :27:01. | :27:07. | |
outrageous scaremongering. Maybe you are both scaremongering. Blair | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
Jenkins, the First Minister said of the cyber nationalists, that they | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
are just Daft folk, as if they were mischievous little children. It is | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
worse than that. When you look at what they say, they are twisted | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
perhaps even evil minds. I would not disagree with his comments, but they | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
are directed at just a small number of people. The story of this | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
campaign is not the story of what people are saying on Twitter. Around | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
Scotland, lots of people are getting engaged in debate to have been tuned | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
out of the political process. Today, we have 47% support for the yes | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
campaign. The movement in the campaign is towards yes. People know | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
we have a better campaign, a vision for Scotland. The latest poll of | :27:59. | :28:05. | |
polls does not show that. Both sides, you always take the opinion | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
polls that show you in the best light. All politicians do that. | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
Jackie Baillie, your campaign is not just negative, it is patronising. | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
You make dubious claims that Scots would be ?1400 better off by staying | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
in the union, and then you say that the kids use the money to scoff 280 | :28:27. | :28:33. | |
hotdogs at the Edinburgh Festival. The fate of the nation is in your | :28:34. | :28:36. | |
hands and that is the best you can do? I think you will find that the | :28:37. | :28:42. | |
campaign is something that we are taking the message to people. Then | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
why are you talking about hotdogs? I do not. The campaign did. We are | :28:49. | :28:56. | |
taking a positive message to people across Scotland about the benefits | :28:57. | :28:59. | |
of the United Kingdom. We believe we are stronger and more secure and | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
more stable, being part of that family of nations that is the United | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
Kingdom. At the same time, we have the strange and power over things | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
like education and transport. I understand that. I am not doing the | :29:14. | :29:19. | |
issues today, I am talking about the tone of the campaign. I have one | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
very important question. Who would you supporting last night in the | :29:25. | :29:30. | |
England-Italy match? I was not watching the game. I would be | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
delighted to see England do well in this tournament. I have Argentina in | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
the office sweepstake. I have to keep some attention on them, but I | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
would be delighted to seeing Clint do well. That is because you think | :29:44. | :29:49. | |
it will help your campaign. It will annoy the Scots. Jackie Baillie I | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
was supporting England. I was also supporting Portugal. | :29:56. | :30:01. | |
Now most of you probably missed last night's football match | :30:02. | :30:04. | |
between England and Italy because you wanted to get an early night and | :30:05. | :30:07. | |
England lost despite a plucky effort, I'm told. | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
But even Westminster is in the grip of World Cup fever | :30:12. | :30:14. | |
and with speculation about the fitness of each political | :30:15. | :30:16. | |
party's team we sent Adam out to tackle some of the big players. | :30:17. | :30:23. | |
Well, this is the closest I'll get to Rio. | :30:24. | :30:25. | |
This year everybody seems to have gone a bit mad Belize, football | :30:26. | :30:38. | |
stickers. Let's see who I will get. Oh, the suspense -- a bit mad for | :30:39. | :30:45. | |
these. George Osborne? That is because we leapt on the bandwagon | :30:46. | :30:47. | |
and made Alan political stickers. They're hotter than a Brazilian | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
barbecue. And at Westminster they're | :30:51. | :30:52. | |
turning into collector?s items. Sunday politics political stickers. | :30:53. | :31:01. | |
We have one of you, Norman. Would you like it? Do you want to start | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
collecting, Bob? Would you like a packet? | :31:07. | :31:06. | |
collecting, Bob? Would you like a Thank you. No album, I'm afraid | :31:07. | :31:14. | |
collecting, Bob? Would you like a Thank you. No album, I've got | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
Michael Gove, next to to Reza, and two of the Prime Minister. -- next | :31:18. | :31:25. | |
to Theresa. I am sure Michael has Theresa in her stick around, and | :31:26. | :31:26. | |
vice versa. These Tory ones are proving very | :31:27. | :31:28. | |
popular since she fell out with him out how | :31:29. | :31:30. | |
to handle extremism in schools. And there's been open speculation | :31:31. | :31:33. | |
about him taking on him in Then there are rumours of a | :31:34. | :31:36. | |
reshuffle of the whole Tory album. Do you think there will be any | :31:37. | :31:47. | |
swapping in the Tory leadership soon? Who knows? David Cameron has | :31:48. | :31:56. | |
also got to replace the EU commissioner, Cathy Ashton, who is | :31:57. | :31:57. | |
standing down. Does he go with the favourite | :31:58. | :31:58. | |
the former health secretary Or the grassroots choice, | :31:59. | :32:01. | |
Martin Callanan, the Tories old Or does he rehabilitate | :32:02. | :32:04. | |
Andrew Mitchell after Plebgate? Do you fancy being European | :32:05. | :32:21. | |
Commissioner? I would rather be spending the money on the world s | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
poor and spending it well. Glad to hear it. Happy collecting. | :32:26. | :32:27. | |
Right, there must be some Labour stickers out there. | :32:28. | :32:30. | |
You don't want to swap Ed Balls any of the others? Can't I keep them | :32:31. | :32:38. | |
all? This is almost the perfect team. | :32:39. | :32:39. | |
There have been grumblings about the fitness of the Shadow | :32:40. | :32:42. | |
And Ed Miliband's got a kicking in Liverpool after posing | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
I'm told grown men are meeting up in pubs for sticker swaps - | :32:47. | :32:57. | |
With Danny Finkelstein - Tory peer and Times columnist, | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
He would be the card I would not want to trade. Do people want to | :33:03. | :33:14. | |
trade him in? I don't think anybody wants to trade him in at the moment. | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
He is the best person to lead the Labour party and will lead us into | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
the next election. There's been a lot about Michael Gove, and he's | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
very combative. That's been a huge strength as an education Secretary, | :33:26. | :33:27. | |
despite the fact it's brought in trouble. I would think the prime | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
minister would tell him not to get himself into peripheral battles at | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
the moment but stick to what has been successful. I haven't got Nick | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
Clegg, but I got me. Controversy amongst collectors of Lib Dems. I | :33:42. | :33:47. | |
need to give away me in return for Nick Clegg. That would be far | :33:48. | :33:48. | |
better. There you are. Some local parties are holding | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
meetings about his leadership, but at one in Cambridge this week | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
they voted to stick with him. You have got a Euro Commissioner. | :33:56. | :34:07. | |
Why don't I swap, I will swap Ed Miliband for Tim Farren. Can I do | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
that? What is the significance of that? Very significant. Happy | :34:12. | :34:14. | |
collecting. These beauties are popping up | :34:15. | :34:17. | |
everywhere, but sadly they won't Adam is still doing the samba around | :34:18. | :34:20. | |
Westminster as I speak. I'm joined | :34:21. | :34:30. | |
by three journalists who've been furiously swapping stickers | :34:31. | :34:32. | |
throughout the show, they certainly weren't allowed to stay up to watch | :34:33. | :34:34. | |
the football, it's Nick Watt, We will talk about Labour after the | :34:35. | :34:44. | |
break, and I want to concentrate on the Tories, but the moment, Nick, | :34:45. | :34:46. | |
senior Tories are saying privately that they might win next May. They | :34:47. | :34:56. | |
are beginning to dream the dream. So why are they doing all this | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
jockeying? I think the jockeying for the leadership is about a year old. | :35:02. | :35:07. | |
What stoped it up was when Theresa gave a speech to the conference and | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
people said she was doing it just in case, when things were not looking | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
too good. She is not on manoeuvres. I think it was a policy row that | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
drove the differences with Michael Gove. But Michael Gove is on | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
manoeuvres, and he is trying to protect George Osborne from, he | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
believes, a serious threat from Boris Johnson and possibly Theresa. | :35:29. | :35:34. | |
It is quite self-indulgent when you are a couple of points behind, the | :35:35. | :35:38. | |
economy is going your way, to be involved in this sort of stuff. | :35:39. | :35:48. | |
Extraordinary. It shows the toxic disease that gnaws at the entrails | :35:49. | :35:54. | |
of the Tory party, and Cameron is their great asset. He is more | :35:55. | :35:56. | |
popular than the party, he bridges the gap is, and he has an | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
extraordinary dissemble and some pretending to be this moderate while | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
never the lens -- nevertheless leading the most far right wing | :36:06. | :36:08. | |
government we have had since the war, and that has been a brilliant | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
piece of political Charente and they would be crazy to get rid of it -- | :36:13. | :36:14. | |
political Charente. piece of political Charente and they | :36:15. | :36:17. | |
would be crazy to get rid of it -- charades. Does this rumble on? I | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
have an unfashionable view as there aren't half as many leadership plots | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
taking place in Westminster as we assume, and the willingness to read | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
strategic calculation into anything that takes place comes from people | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
watching I Claudius or house of cards. That hasn't been off -- on | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
for years. I needed a reference from your time. I needed something. Maybe | :36:41. | :36:47. | |
brief encounter? It's a stylised view of how politics works, and so | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
much more in life is about randomness and mistakes. Boris | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
Johnson, Theresa May, Michael Gove as George Osborne's man on earth, | :36:58. | :37:03. | |
they are positioning themselves -- Janan wrote an eloquent comment this | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
week about this, but there are certain realities that. Michael Gove | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
had that famous dinner with Rupert Murdoch a few weeks ago in which he | :37:13. | :37:15. | |
said that you must not make Boris Johnson leader of the Conservative | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
party, George Osborne is my man Theresa May set out her credo two | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
years ago and people on her team were saying that she was doing it | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
just in case. People are out there and are thinking of the future, but | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
I do think Janan is right. In the village, in the thick of it mindset, | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
you can get a bit carried away and you can be a bit in the famous. That | :37:37. | :37:45. | |
is before your era. He died. What did he mean by it. You can get a bit | :37:46. | :37:52. | |
carried away by it. I will have words with you during the break | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :37:56. | :37:57. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll be talking about Ed Miliband's | :38:01. | :38:11. | |
In the East Midlands, is immigration boosting our economy | :38:12. | :38:13. | |
MPs and councils hold a special meeting. | :38:14. | :38:16. | |
I would say it's good for Ldicester, and good for the UK. | :38:17. | :38:22. | |
It's politically incorrect but I do feel we've been sw`mped, | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
Who cares for the children who care for their families? | :38:28. | :38:35. | |
My friends don't have to care for their siblings or their mum | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
They just go out and play on the park and do what thex want | :38:41. | :38:46. | |
Hello, I'm Marie Ashby and my guests today, Heather | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
Wheeler, the Conservative MP for South Derbyshire and Liz Kendall, | :38:53. | :38:58. | |
Labour's MP for Leicester Wdst. So what price the recession? | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
Well, the Labour leader Ed Liliband thinks he knows how much it's cost | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
us here in the East Midlands. He was addressing the | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
Annual Conference of the GMB trade union at the Nottingham Arena. | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
And, in a speech dominated by the cost of living, he put a figure on | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
how much Labour claims we'vd lost in lower earnings and higher prices. | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
People are on average according to the figures published yesterday two | :39:21. | :39:22. | |
and a half thousand pounds ` year worse off than they were in 201 . | :39:23. | :39:28. | |
That means wages are behind prices and we're still seeing | :39:29. | :39:30. | |
We've got a tackle that because while the government says | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
the economy is fixed, the truth is people are getting worse off | :39:36. | :39:38. | |
and that's why we need to r`ise the minimum wage, deal with insdcurity, | :39:39. | :39:42. | |
zero hours contracts, build houses again | :39:43. | :39:57. | |
Do you accept those figures? Absolutely not. If you look at | :39:58. | :40:05. | |
things we've introduced by having zero council tax increases when it | :40:06. | :40:08. | |
under Conservative council, and then as soon as Labour get enabldd the | :40:09. | :40:13. | |
council tax up. Things like the fuel duty escalator also be rid of it and | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
taking 2p off a pint of beer. We have really brought in meastres | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
which curb excessive price hncreases through mechanisms that the | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
government are in control of soy don't accept that at all. The | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
government will say their policies are working for the we have been | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
through the most hideous recession. I think people are struggling to | :40:35. | :40:36. | |
make ends meet. Many people in this around here where wages are low The | :40:37. | :41:30. | |
difficulty is, I don't want to see a low`wage | :41:31. | :42:28. | |
The report also said there was evidence that overall immigration | :42:29. | :42:30. | |
had economic benefits for the region, but was putting | :42:31. | :42:33. | |
a strain on many services which were not getting the dxtra | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
Well, we mentioned that Leicester has the most people in the Dast | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
Do you think immigration is a good or bad thing? | :42:44. | :42:53. | |
Not only is it taking jobs from people, it's taking all | :42:54. | :43:01. | |
People that live here and born here, generations, can't get housds, can't | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
Then the people can actuallx live together cohesively | :43:06. | :43:15. | |
Excuse me, sir, sorry to interrupt you. | :43:16. | :43:20. | |
Do you think immigration is a good or bad thing? | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
I think we should all learn to live in peace, one love. | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
It's been a very good thing for Leicester. | :43:32. | :43:42. | |
Particularly in the last ten or so years. | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
It's brought a lot of vibrancy to the city. | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
It's politically incorrect but I do feel we've been sw`mped, | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
What would you say if I said a third of the people in Lehcester | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
I would say it's good for Ldicester, and good for the UK. | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
Some interesting and varied views there. | :44:03. | :44:18. | |
And we're joined by Stuart Xoung, the Executive Director of | :44:19. | :44:20. | |
??PREVSUB ??NEWSUB why were cancelled so keen to have this | :44:21. | :44:34. | |
meeting with MPs? This is an important issue. Given the | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
importance of the issue, cotncil leaders are very keen to properly | :44:40. | :44:42. | |
understand the issue of migration. Its effects on the region and its | :44:43. | :44:45. | |
effects on the delivery of public services. It is the service of the | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
councils are worried about because clearly they've had funding cut and | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
still have to these services? It is the delivery of public servhces most | :44:56. | :45:01. | |
focused on. Immigration is `n issue national government is lookhng at | :45:02. | :45:04. | |
but in terms of local government, doing practical solutions, to the | :45:05. | :45:10. | |
challenges I have in supporting local committees, and making sure | :45:11. | :45:12. | |
their public services are both effectively paid for and delivered. | :45:13. | :45:19. | |
You have figures that show has been an the number of supported `sylum | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
seekers in the East Midlands, up 76% in one year. That will put pressure | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
on in other areas, too, too, isn't it? We need to get a context in | :45:28. | :45:33. | |
these figures. If 76% up from last year, in East Midlands, 2000 | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
supported asylum seekers, btt it's not just about the numbers of about | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
a dispersal. What councils `re saying is, if you are going to have | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
asylum seekers in communitids, what we need to do is effectivelx plan | :45:48. | :45:53. | |
for that and to make sure that the Home Office and the private | :45:54. | :45:55. | |
contractors work with counchls in terms of determining where `nd how | :45:56. | :46:01. | |
they are. It's a massive subject and one which is very tricky for you as | :46:02. | :46:07. | |
politicians to deal with. No one wants to be politically incorrect on | :46:08. | :46:09. | |
this but you can't ignore this issue. It's massive, isn't ht? This | :46:10. | :46:16. | |
is a fallacy any politician is ignoring immigration. You s`w in | :46:17. | :46:23. | |
less a wide range of views. I share a lot of concerns about immhgration. | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
But I also see some real benefits in the diversity in Leicester `nd new | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
businesses and trade brings to many people and many people are worried | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
about the impact on jobs, the impact on public services and what is | :46:38. | :46:40. | |
happening in their communithes. I think it is a fallacy to sax don't | :46:41. | :46:43. | |
want to talk about it. I talk about it all the time on the doorstep and | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
in Parliament. Immigration, good or bad in your view? I think it's got | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
many downsides and I think that the plans we have got to stop | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
immigration where we can, is absolutely the right thing. It isn't | :47:00. | :47:07. | |
just... What are the downsides? Changing communities vastly. We | :47:08. | :47:10. | |
don't recognise certain parts of our communities any more. Because you | :47:11. | :47:16. | |
will go into the post officd and you will be in a queue of 15 people and | :47:17. | :47:19. | |
there will be many of them who are dealing with money transfers back to | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
their own countries. Of course, that's fantastic, but if thd money | :47:24. | :47:26. | |
is going back to their country, it's not staying in our economy. If they | :47:27. | :47:32. | |
are earning in paying their taxes, they will be. It's important people | :47:33. | :47:36. | |
come here to work and pay their taxes. Is there something you're | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
hearing from the council, their concerns? There is a clear need for | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
a debate in terms of migrathon, what is it, economic migration, supported | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
asylum seekers, and the effdct of it on public services. It's not | :47:51. | :47:53. | |
understand the effect but stggesting how we can improve the situ`tion. | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
For the work we've done, we have identified four issues in of lack of | :47:59. | :48:01. | |
language provision, dispers`l of asylum seekers, the cost of moving | :48:02. | :48:07. | |
from central to local government. They are three key issues. The fact | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
you have gone to politicians like Heather, | :48:13. | :48:47. | |
now we have put in particul`r measures to bring the points system | :48:48. | :48:50. | |
Australia has. Every body understands the immigration in | :48:51. | :48:53. | |
Australia thinks it's fair. That's what people want in this cotntry. I | :48:54. | :48:59. | |
think we need tough border controls to make sure people don't come here | :49:00. | :49:02. | |
illegally. If you come to this country, it should be to cut work | :49:03. | :49:08. | |
and not claim benefits. You should speak the language. What applies in | :49:09. | :49:11. | |
this country should apply to British people go abroad, too. What's | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
important is, the way that we give people confidence that they are | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
going to get jobs, get homes, is to give them the skills they nded and | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
have good quality jobs in this country, not by suggesting xou will | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
be OK so long as we shut evdrybody out. What is next to them? What s | :49:28. | :49:34. | |
the next step? The report whll be available in mid July so thd next | :49:35. | :49:37. | |
step is to continue to work with the councils, voluntary community | :49:38. | :49:43. | |
sector, the business sector, we are keen to highlight the econolic | :49:44. | :49:46. | |
benefits, for example, an estimation that there is a 10% contribttion to | :49:47. | :49:53. | |
the output to the region market was economy. Some areas do less well. We | :49:54. | :49:58. | |
want to identify those challenges. It's good to talk about it but | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
actions is needed as well. The action is around inadequate language | :50:03. | :50:10. | |
provision. What areas do less well? In Northamptonshire for exalple | :50:11. | :50:15. | |
there's a big pressure on school places and the council is rdsponding | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
in terms of expanding the ntmber of schools, to increase the nulber of | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
places. In Boston, there's been a huge increase. We have to m`ke sure | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
they focus on housing and elployment to support the population. Thank you | :50:29. | :50:31. | |
so much for joining us todax. The number of children caring | :50:32. | :50:34. | |
for their parents or their brothers and sisters hs rising | :50:35. | :50:36. | |
in the East Midlands. It's up by 14% | :50:37. | :50:38. | |
in the last ten years. The government has brought | :50:39. | :50:40. | |
in new guidelines to force councils to offer more help to young people | :50:41. | :50:43. | |
but critics say the continuhng cuts facing local authorities me`n it | :50:44. | :50:46. | |
will stay a low priority. Patcee Francis has been to | :50:47. | :50:48. | |
Derby to meet two children It's a rare break for two young | :50:49. | :50:51. | |
carers with heavy responsibhlities. Alannah and Malika are school | :50:52. | :51:02. | |
children who have to mix sttdies I care for my twin brothers, | :51:03. | :51:05. | |
Liam and Ryan, who have authsm No, my mum helps, | :51:06. | :51:15. | |
but sometimes she's a bit poorly because she dodsn't get | :51:16. | :51:23. | |
a lot of rest and sleep and things. So I need to help her as well | :51:24. | :51:30. | |
as my brothers. Malika lives alone with her mother | :51:31. | :51:35. | |
who suffers from chronic pahn An elder sister comes home to help, | :51:36. | :51:38. | |
but much I'll get up in the morning `round | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
6.30`7.00, and I'll make brdakfast And if there is laundry, | :51:44. | :51:54. | |
I'll put it in and wash Derby City Council is working | :51:55. | :52:06. | |
with 66 young carers. Nottingham has 200 and in Ldicester, | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
the figure is 249. We are seeing an increase | :52:11. | :52:15. | |
in mental health issues. We are also seeing an incre`se in | :52:16. | :52:21. | |
young carers, or young people, that Also for some children I thhnk | :52:22. | :52:24. | |
the difficulties around maybe caring for parents where there are | :52:25. | :52:34. | |
life`limiting illnesses. Do you think your life is vdry | :52:35. | :52:37. | |
different to your friends? Yes, because | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
my friends don't have to care And they can just go out and play | :52:42. | :52:43. | |
on the park. And do what they want, | :52:44. | :52:53. | |
when I have to think twice when I They have more freedom to do stuff | :52:54. | :52:56. | |
they want, do more activitids. And, like, | :52:57. | :53:05. | |
if they ask you for a sleepover you say no because you've got to | :53:06. | :53:07. | |
care for someone in the house. Sometimes they don't | :53:08. | :53:10. | |
understand what you mean. More and more children are taking | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
on the burden of looking New guidelines mean councils have | :53:15. | :53:16. | |
to consider their needs, but many fear cuts in local authoritx | :53:17. | :53:22. | |
funding means that won't happen And thousands of children | :53:23. | :53:24. | |
in the region could miss out I like school, because at school, | :53:25. | :53:27. | |
you feel like a child because you don't have a lot | :53:28. | :53:39. | |
of responsibilities that ard huge. But when you come home, | :53:40. | :53:42. | |
you really feel different. You feel almost like an adult | :53:43. | :53:46. | |
and it's hard. And with us to talk | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
about this is Lily Caprani, Director of Strategy and Policy | :53:51. | :53:57. | |
from the Children's Society. Isn't this the point that pdople | :53:58. | :54:08. | |
like we just saw there are lissing out on their childhood? | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
Unfortunately, in some cases, that's true and The Children's Sochety | :54:14. | :54:16. | |
works with thousands of young carers and for most of them they would say | :54:17. | :54:20. | |
they are very proud of the brilliant job they do and they do it because | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
they love the person they are looking after. Where it gets | :54:25. | :54:27. | |
concerning is where that burden and responsibility becomes so great it | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
starts to take its toll on their education, their health, and it can | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
have devastating on that. Wd have just heard it can be isolathng. You | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
could miss out on friendships. And young carers say to us they don t | :54:41. | :54:43. | |
want to stop caring but the do want more support and a break from time | :54:44. | :54:46. | |
to time and for it to not affect their education. Why the nulbers of | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
young carers on the rise thd East Midlands? When we looked at the | :54:52. | :54:57. | |
census figures, nationally, there's about 166,000 children who `re | :54:58. | :55:01. | |
officially young carers and that's just officially so in all | :55:02. | :55:05. | |
likelihood, if the tip of the iceberg. Over 8000 in the E`st | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
Midlands. They are the ones have been identified. It's awkward to | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
talk about, so we expect thd numbers to be greater. I have gone tp. Quite | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
worryingly, in the younger `ge group in particular, five`year`olds to | :55:19. | :55:22. | |
nine`year`olds, it's gone up steeply. Liz Campbell, the | :55:23. | :55:28. | |
government has issued new gtidelines to make this a priority. Thhs got to | :55:29. | :55:31. | |
be a step forward, surely, the government has done this crhtter | :55:32. | :55:35. | |
mucked I want to come back to the point about identifying young | :55:36. | :55:41. | |
carers. I met a young familx, the father had MS. They helped out and | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
would not think of themselvds as caring. They were just getthng on | :55:47. | :55:49. | |
with it basically, so I think the very first step is got to bd to | :55:50. | :55:56. | |
identify young carers. We ptshed for a duty on schools, colleges and | :55:57. | :56:00. | |
universities to have a duty to identify young carers when the Care | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
Bill was going through. Unfortunately, the government didn't | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
accept that. There has been a step forward in the way assessments | :56:09. | :56:13. | |
should work. Why isn't enough being done here to help these young | :56:14. | :56:16. | |
people? Clearly they need more support. Indeed, and you do on a | :56:17. | :56:24. | |
case`by`case basis, constittency by Council basis and that's ex`ctly | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
what we did in South Derbyshire I got hold of head teachers so they | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
identify these children and also through the GPs, and we havd part of | :56:33. | :56:37. | |
our big society in South Derbyshire, huge church groups look aftdr the | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
carers children, give them respite. There's a sense he also these young | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
people are basically picking up the slack because councils don't have | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
the money. No, no, I won't `ccept that at all. For starters, because | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
of the Care Bill, and what Jeremy Hunt has been doing, there's 2. | :56:57. | :57:00. | |
billion more money coming into this area. It's not you. It's public | :57:01. | :57:12. | |
health areas. It's not your money, Heather. It's definitely not. It's | :57:13. | :57:16. | |
money from the NHS. What I want people to do is roll their sleeves | :57:17. | :57:23. | |
up, go to their GPs in schools and ask how to deal with this bdcause | :57:24. | :57:27. | |
the great respite care which goes on with charities in South Derbyshire | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
is hugely welcome. It's a step in the right direction and I w`nt to | :57:32. | :57:34. | |
see that working all across the country. Labour have said they would | :57:35. | :57:42. | |
repeal the health and social bill. We want to get rid of the | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
fragmentation the government is caused. The Care Bill, we wdre | :57:46. | :57:48. | |
constructive trying to put ht through. You are talking about two | :57:49. | :57:54. | |
different bits of legislation. There's more we could do. That's | :57:55. | :57:57. | |
what we could do. That's wh`t we're pressing for. It arouses a lot of | :57:58. | :58:04. | |
passion in the studio today. Our politicians taking this serhously | :58:05. | :58:06. | |
enough because there's been a for decades? The care act as a welcome | :58:07. | :58:12. | |
step forward and this cross`party consensus that something nedds to | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
improve the young carers and it transcends politics in many ways. We | :58:17. | :58:19. | |
don't want to see children suffering because of the great work they do | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
look and after their familids. It's a long overdue change and it's not | :58:24. | :58:27. | |
yet enforced. If it works, ht will mean when an adult who is dhsabled | :58:28. | :58:31. | |
get assessed and it's worked out whether or not they get card, they | :58:32. | :58:34. | |
have to look at the whole f`mily and that didn't used to happen. | :58:35. | :58:40. | |
Sometimes, young people work... Is the money there? Can you ring fence | :58:41. | :58:45. | |
that money? It is for the ptblic health budget is no huge and I | :58:46. | :58:48. | |
believe actually councils are much better at spending it because they | :58:49. | :58:52. | |
are so much closer to the pdople. You are disagreeing? I think that | :58:53. | :58:59. | |
there's been a lot of talk `bout integrating health and care services | :59:00. | :59:06. | |
and it using budgets togethdr, but anybody who claims that what | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
happened at a social care btdget isn't having a big impact on | :59:11. | :59:15. | |
families and carers and adults with disabilities in children with needs, | :59:16. | :59:19. | |
is living in cloud cuckoo l`nd. What are the consequences if nothing is | :59:20. | :59:25. | |
done? It must improve. If young carers continue to take on too much | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
of a burden of care, 30 hours a week, their education are stffering | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
and we know they can fall bdhind in their GCSEs by nine grades. They end | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
up not getting into employmdnt for soft thank you for coming from | :59:39. | :59:40. | |
London to talk to us. Time for a round`up of some | :59:41. | :59:42. | |
of the other political storhes Here's our Political Editor, | :59:43. | :59:45. | |
John Hess, with 60 seconds. Problems for Leicestershire | :59:46. | :59:50. | |
and Rutland's Police Commissioner His call for an enquiry into a new | :59:51. | :59:52. | |
housing development at Blabx was rejected by the High Court `nd now | :59:53. | :59:57. | |
the panel which oversees his actions has said it regrets the dam`ge | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
his move has done to relationships East Midlands UKIP MEP Roger Helmer | :00:02. | :00:05. | |
may have lost out on a Westlinster seat after the Newark by`eldction, | :00:06. | :00:12. | |
but he is ruling the roost He is now the leader of | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
UKIP's Parliamentary group. It's a role that I hadn't | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
anticipated until just recently when it was mentioned to me, but | :00:21. | :00:22. | |
it's a very exciting role bdcause, as I say, we now have this very | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
large delegation of 24 MEPs, and we We want to be as effective | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
as we can be. And the region's newest | :00:31. | :00:36. | |
MP Robert Jenrick has taken his seat in parliament much to | :00:37. | :00:38. | |
the delight and relief of the Prime Minister who was obviously | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
more than happy to give New`rk's MP And that's the Sunday Polithcs | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
in the East Midlands. Thanks to our guests Heather Wheeler | :00:45. | :00:56. | |
and Liz Kendall now back to Andrew There are big changes afoot | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
in the EU following last month's European elections, | :01:00. | :01:15. | |
not least who'll get the top job But | :01:16. | :01:17. | |
behind the scenes the parties have also been jockeying for position as | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
they try to form the big groups that And UKIP seems to have been | :01:22. | :01:24. | |
struggling to keep its influence Here's Adam to explain | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
how it all works. If you want your party to be a big | :01:29. | :01:41. | |
cheese in the European Parliament, you need to form a political group. | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
By doing this, the party gets more money, more positions on committees | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
and even more speaking rights in the chamber. But the parliament's rules | :01:50. | :01:56. | |
are strict. And to form a group you need a group of 25 MPs from at least | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
seven different countries. For UKIP, the number of MEPs will not be a | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
problem because they already have 24 of their own, but the different | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
nationalities are more of a challenge. Nigel Farage was not | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
helped by the Tories stealing - stealing his former Danish and | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
Finnish allies, and the pen pinching his Italian charms. Nigel needs a | :02:18. | :02:26. | |
new charm and fast. He has already signed up Lithuania's order and | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
justice, a free citizen from Prague, and the Dutchman from the reformed | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
political party. The big signing was the 17 members of the Italian Beppe | :02:36. | :02:43. | |
Griego's 5-star movement, but it leaves UKIP short of two more | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
international powers, and with the clock ticking, it looks like his | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
hopes resting on the Swedish Democrats and the Polish new right | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
Congress. They both make their decisions next week. | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
What is the latest? UKIP have enough MEPs with their pals, but they need | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
seven countries, as I understand it. They are not there yet. They are | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
wrapped five countries and need another two. UKIP are being quite | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
buoyant and say they will be meeting MEPs from five countries next week | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
and are pretty confident they will get those countries, but as Adam was | :03:20. | :03:21. | |
saying, the exposed himself in public, and if he | :03:22. | :05:07. | |
doesn't win it looks uncertain, and he will be in a position where he | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
has to go back to his own party and say they are not getting anywhere. | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
That is dangerous and takes us closer to the Exeter, which I don't | :05:15. | :05:21. | |
think would want. The danger for Mr Cameron is if it is the president of | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
the commission, he will save you cannot stop a federalist becoming | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
head of the European commission what chance do you have of | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
repatriating lots of powers back to London. There are lots of Tory MPs | :05:33. | :05:40. | |
dying to make the argument. My hunch is that he won't make it. There are | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
too many countries opposed to his presidency and even the country | :05:46. | :05:47. | |
notionally in favour of it, Germany, is failing in youth -- enthusiasm. | :05:48. | :05:53. | |
Angela Merkel cannot be seen to give in to the Brits this. Her own side | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
once it as well, though some reason the German media says it. When she | :06:00. | :06:07. | |
tried to reach out and said to look at the other candidates, she got | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
such abuse on the right wing press from her own country and party she | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
had to retreat. Janan is right that there is opposition to Juncker, but | :06:19. | :06:26. | |
as long as Cameron turns it into an argument about Britain and Europe, | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
he will strengthen the hand of Juncker. Angela Merkel thinks | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
Juncker is inappropriate. She did not like the process, which was a | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
power grab by the European Parliament, but when David Cameron | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
went to the council and said that if I don't get my way, we could leave | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
the EU, that led to the backlash, most significantly from the SPD in | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
Germany. As Tony Blair says, if only David Cameron had made the argument | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
that Juncker is bad for Europe, then he would have found his natural | :07:01. | :07:02. | |
allies would have felt more comfortable following behind. Enough | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
Europe. I want to show you a picture. See what you think of this. | :07:08. | :07:16. | |
When I saw that picture, I thought it was so ludicrous that it had to | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
have been photo shop. Discuss. He is holding it with a certain disdain, | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
looking a bit hangdog. A disastrous picture for Ed Miliband. His | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
strength is authenticity, sincerity and cleverness. And he blows all of | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
that. He was the one who took on Murdoch, very bravely and | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
dangerously, and one, really. Now there he is supporting Murdoch's | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
son. It's a big mistake, not just in Liverpool, where obviously they are | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
particularly incensed. And then he apologises. Sort of apologises and | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
understands why Liverpool feels upset. But it is a fundamental error | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
and I hope he learns from this, that he must absolutely stay true to | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
himself. That's all he's got going for him. Who do we blame? His | :08:06. | :08:12. | |
advisers or himself? In the end himself. Nobody forced him to do it. | :08:13. | :08:21. | |
On this one, he called it wrong It's a sign of the rather the bridal | :08:22. | :08:29. | |
state of the Labour Party is that his candidates were vocal in | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
attacking him doing this. It's a sign of how readable Ed Miliband is | :08:33. | :08:39. | |
at Parliamentary level. I don't think you should have apologised. | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
The mistake he made was associating himself with that newspaper. The | :08:46. | :08:53. | |
mistake was the prior three years when he went too far as portraying | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
the Murdoch empire beyond the pale. He made a case against phone hacking | :09:00. | :09:01. | |
and offences in that regard without going as far as he did with the | :09:02. | :09:07. | |
rhetoric. To do that, and then pose with the Sun newspaper, the | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
juxtaposition is what did for him, not the mere fact of posing with it. | :09:11. | :09:17. | |
Maybe he did not know what he was doing because we were told he | :09:18. | :09:18. | |
doesn't read the British newspapers. It was football, and he | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
has posed with the Sun newspaper before. Mr Cameron and Mr Clegg | :09:23. | :09:29. | |
posed as well. But with the Sun newspaper and football, you tread | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
carefully. That was the mistake You get the impression from the picture | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
that he looks so uncomfortable that you wonder whether there was a full | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
process of consultation that went on within his media operation, within | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
his political operation. Was he fully aware of what would happen | :09:45. | :09:46. | |
question what he looks so incredibly uncomfortable. But at the end of the | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
day, leaders have to take responsibility. It is cultural as | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
well. That picture says, I am down there with the football blokes and | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
you think, you are not. That is not what people will vote for. Be | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
yourself and don't pretend to be something else because it never | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
works. But the polls suggest that the British voters don't yet see Ed | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
Miliband as prime ministerial. The worst thing you can then do is get | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
involved in stunts that are more likely to reinforce that idea than | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
counter it. There was a precedent for it in the last parliament which | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
was Gordon Brown's attempts to feign a populist touch. He did it by | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
telling the contents of his iPod. The Arctic monkeys. It always jarred | :10:32. | :10:38. | |
because he was trying too hard. Not uniquely guilty of, Ed Miliband all | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
the other leaders have done it. At the moment he more vulnerable. Yes, | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
and he is less popular than his party. Labour has quite a popular | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
brand, in a resilient way, in a way they don't with the Tories, yet | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
their leader is a personal problem. The pressure is on him to do stunts | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
like this. Will there be a shadow cabinet reshuffle? Yes, we have to | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
get the cabinet reshuffle out of the way first, and that might come next | :11:06. | :11:07. | |
week, maybe by the time of the summer recess, but the first thing | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
that the prime Minister do is work out who is the UK candidate for the | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
European Commissioner. Is it not the case probably that Ed Balls is | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
becoming semi-detached from the Ed Miliband project? I don't think | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
entirely. Nothing gets agreed without both of the end are green. | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
Ed Balls is controversial. He has great pluses and minuses and is a | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
big figure. Labour doesn't have that many big figures. It's quite hard to | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
think who would be a heavy hitter as a possible Chancellor. He is a | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
convincing chancellor to the future, Love him. He has the heft -- love | :11:43. | :11:50. | |
him or hate him. Any possibility Ed Balls could be moved as shadow | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
chancellor? The timing is convenient because the Scottish referendum ends | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
in the autumn and Alistair Darling becomes a free man, win or lose I | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
don't think Ed Balls will be removed because moving him would be an | :12:03. | :12:04. | |
admission that everything the Labour Party said about the economy to the | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
preceding four years has been a mistake. And you can't do that nine | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
months before a general election. You invite ridicule. But relations | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
between Ed Miliband and Ed Balls are not great at the moment. The Ed | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
Miliband team are very, very suspicious of this new love in | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
between Ed Balls and Peter Mandelson. Mandelson likes to say | :12:24. | :12:29. | |
that he spotted the Ed Balls talents in the original place and appointed | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
him to the Gordon Brown team after the disaster of 1992. But things | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
obviously went awry, and now Ed Balls and Peter Mandelson Avenue | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
Rappaport, and that is with enormous suspicion -- they have a new | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
Rappaport. With good reason because it's about policy. It's about the | :12:49. | :12:51. | |
attitude towards business. Should they be out there saying they will | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
get the tax dodgers, Starbucks, Vodafone, are we going to take on | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
business in a big way? In a way that Ed Miliband has quite bravely said. | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
On the other hand, Ed Balls and Peter Mandelson are saying, hang on, | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
we only won in 1997 by being business friendly. Sorry to rush | :13:10. | :13:10. | |
you. We are running out of time The Daily Politics will be back | :13:11. | :13:12. | |
every day this week at midday, and I'll be back here next Sunday | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
when I'll be joined by the shadow work and pensions | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
secretary Rachel Reeves.Remember if it's Sunday, | :13:20. | :13:21. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. Magnificent. The power base | :13:22. | :13:53. | |
of medieval England. Charles' ceiling was a piece | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
of breathtaking arrogance. You get a sense of the people | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
who made the palaces. as I unlock the secrets | :14:06. | :14:13. | |
of Britain's great palaces. | :14:14. | :14:17. |