26/02/2017 Sunday Politics East Midlands


Andrew Neil is joined by Kezia Dugdale, Patrick O'Flynn, Swedish MP Laila Naraghi and Douglas Murray of the Henry Jackson Society, while Marie Ashby's guest is Vernon Coaker.

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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.


Theresa May still has plenty on her plate,


not least a battle over Brexit in the Lords.


But after Thursday's by-election win in Copeland,


the Prime Minister looks stronger than ever.


Jeremy Corbyn's Labour saw off Ukip in this week's other by-election,


but losing to the Tories in a heartland seat leaves the party


The leader of Scottish Labour joins me live.


You look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden!


And in the East Midlands... mocked for talking about the impact


Council tax is going up but services are still being cut.


And the children who do not own a toothbrush - a new campaign


In London, will the rise in council tax in all but four local


authorities be enough to alleviate the crisis in social care?


And joining me for all of that, three journalists who I'm pleased


to say have so far not been banned from the White House.


I've tried banning them from this show repeatedly,


but somehow they just keep getting past BBC security - it's Sam Coates,


We have had two crucial by-elections, the results last


Thursday night. It's now Sunday morning, where do they believe


British politics? I think it leaves British politics looking as if it


may go ahead without Ukip is a strong and robust force. It is


difficult to see from where we are now how Ukip rebuilds into a


credible vote winning operation. I think it looks unprofessional, the


campaign they fought in Stoke was clearly winnable because the margin


with which Labour held onto that seat was not an impressive one but


they put forward arguably the wrong candidate, it was messy and it's


hard to see where they go from here, particularly with the money problems


they have and even Nigel Farage saying he's fed up of the party. If


Isabel is right, if Ukip is no longer a major factor, you look at


the state of Labour and the Lib Dems coming from a long way behind


despite their local government by-election successes, Tories never


more dominant. I think Theresa May is in a fascinating situation. She's


the most powerful Prime Minister of modern times for now because she


faces no confident, formidable opposition. Unlike Margaret Thatcher


who in the 1980s, although she won landslides in the end, often looked


like she was in trouble. She was inferred quite often in the build-up


to the election. David Owen, Roy Jenkins, Shirley Williams. And quite


often she was worried. At the moment Theresa May faces no formidable UK


opposition. However, she is both strong and fragile because her


agenda is Brexit, which I still think many have not got to grips


with in terms of how complex and training and difficult it will be


for her. Thatcher faced no equivalent to Brexit so she is both


strong, formidably strong because of the wider UK political context, and


very fragile. It is just when you think you have never been more


dominant you are actually at the most dangerous, what can possibly go


wrong? I think that the money of her MPs they haven't begun to think


through the practicalities of Brexit and she does have a working majority


of about 17 in the House of Commons so at any point she could be put


under pressure from really opposition these days is done by the


two wins inside the Conservative Party, either the 15 Europhiles or


the bigger group of about 60 Brexiteers who have continued to


operate as a united and disciplined force within the Conservative Party


to get their agenda on the table. Either of those wings could be


disappointed at any point in the next three and a half years and that


would put her under pressure. I wouldn't completely rule out Ukip


coming back. The reason Ukip lost in Stoke I think it's because at the


moment Theresa May is delivering pretty much everything Ukip figures


might want to see. We might find the phrase Brexit means Brexit quite


anodyne but I think she is convincing people she will press


ahead with their agenda and deliver the leave vote that people buy a


slim majority voted for. Should that change, should there be talk of


transition periods, shut the migration settlement not make people


happy, then I think Ukip risks charging back up the centre ground


and causing more problems in future. That could be a two year gap in


which Ukip would have to survive. As I said, Ukip is on our agenda for


today. Thursday was a big night


for political obsessives like us, with not one but two


significant by-elections, Ellie braved the wind and rain


to bring you this report. The clouds had gathered,


the winds blew at gale force. Was a change in the air, or just


a weather system called Doris? Voters in Stoke-on-Trent


were about to find out. It's here, a sports hall


on a Thursday night that the country's media reckon


is the true eye of the storm. Would Labour suffer a lightning


strike to its very heart, or would the Ukip threat proved


to be a damp squib? Everybody seems to think the result


in Stoke-on-Trent would be close, just as they did 150-odd miles away


in Copeland, where the Tories are counting on stealing another


Labour heartland seat. Areas of high pressure in both


places, and some strange sights. We knew this wasn't a normal


by-election, and to prove it there is the rapper,


Professor Green. Chart-toppers aside,


winner of Stoke-on-Trent hit parade was announced first,


where everyone was so excited the candidates didn't even make it


onto the stage for the result. And I do hereby declare


that the said Gareth Snell Nigel Farage has said that victory


here in Stoke-on-Trent But Ukip's newish leader


played down the defeat, insisting his party's


time would come. Are you going to stand again


as an MP or has this No doubt I will stand again,


don't worry about that. The politics of hope beat


the politics of fear. I think Ukip are the ones this


weekend who have got But a few minutes later,


it turned out Labour had Harrison, Trudy Lynn,


the Conservative Party That was more than 2,000


votes ahead of Labour. What has happened here tonight


is a truly historic event. Labour were disappointed,


but determined to be optimistic At a point when we're 15 to 18


points behind in the polls... The Conservatives within 2000 votes


I think is an incredible The morning after the night


before, the losing parties were licking their wounds


and their lips over breakfast. For years and years,


Ukip was Nigel Farage, That has now changed,


that era has gone. It's a new era, it is


a second age for us. So that needs to be


more fully embedded, it needs to be more defined,


you know, and that will We have to continue to improve


in seats where we have stood. As we have done here,


we've improved on our 2015 result, that's what important,


is that we are taking steps Can I be the first to come


here today to congratulate you on being elected the new MP


for Stoke on Trent Central. Jeremy Corbyn has just arrived


in Stoke to welcome his newest MP. Not sure he's going to


Copeland later though. Earlier in the day, the Labour


leader had made clear he'd considered and discounted some


theories about the party's Since you found out that you'd lost


a seat to a governing party for the first time


since the Falklands War, have you at any point this morning


looked in the mirror and asked yourself this question -


could the problem actually be me? In the end it was the Conservatives


who came out on top. No governing party has made


a gain at a by-election With the self-styled people's army


of Ukip halted in Stoke, and Labour's wash-out


here in Copeland... There's little chance of rain


on Theresa May's parade. In the wake of that loss in


Copeland, the Scottish Labour Party has been meeting for its spring


conference in the Yesterday, deputy leader Tom Watson


warned delegates that unless Labour took the by-election defeat


seriously, the party's devastation in Scotland could be repeated


south of the border. Well, I'm joined now


by the leader of Scottish Labour, Even after your party had lost


Copeland to the Tories and with Labour now trailing 16 points in the


UK polls, you claim to have every faith that Jeremy Corbyn would


absolutely win the general election. What evidence can you bring to


support that? There is no doubt the result in Copeland was disappointing


for the Labour Party and I think it's a collective feeling for


everyone within the Labour Party and I want to do what I can to turn


around the fortunes of our party. That's what I've committed to do


while I have been the Scottish Labour leader. This two years ago we


were down the mines so to speak in terms of losing the faith of working


class communities across the country, but we listened very hard


to the message voters are sending and responded to it. That's what I'm


committed to doing in Scotland and that's what Jeremy Corbyn is


committed to doing UK wide. The latest polls put Labour at 14% in


Scotland, the Tories at ten points ahead of you in Scotland, even


Theresa May is more popular than Jeremy Corbyn in Scotland. So I will


try again - why are you so sure Jeremy Corbyn could win a general


election? What I said when you are talking about Scotland is that I'm


the leader of the Scottish Labour Party and I take responsibility for


our policies here. Voters said very clearly after the Scottish


Parliament election that they didn't have a clear enough sense of what we


stood for so I have been advocating a very strong anti-austerity


platform, coming up with ideas of how we can oppose the cuts and


invest in our future. That is something Jeremy Corbyn also


supports but I've also made it clear this weekend that we are opposed to


a second independence referendum. I want to bring Scotland back together


by focusing on the future and that's why I have been speaking about the


federal solution for the UK. I know that Jeremy Corbyn shares that


ambition because he is backing the plans for a people's Constitutional


Convention. Yes, these are difficult times for the Scottish Labour Party


and UK family, but I have a plan in place to turn things around. It will


take time though. I'm still not sure why you are so sure the Labour party


can win but let me come onto your plan. You want a UK wide


Constitutional Convention and that lead to a new Federalist settlement.


Is it the policy of the Labour Shadow Cabinet in Westminster to


carve England into federal regions? What we support at a UK wide level


is the people's constitutional convention. I have been careful to


prescribe what I think is in the best interests of Scotland but not


to dictate to other parts of the UK what is good for them, that's the


point of the people's constitutional convention. You heard Tom Watson say


there has to be a UK wide conversation about power, who has it


and how it is exercised across England. England hasn't been part of


this devolution story over the last 20 years, it is something that


happened between Scotland and London or Wales and London. No wonder


people in England feel disenfranchised from that. What


evidence can you bring to show there is any appetite in England for an


English federal solution to England, to carve England into federal


regions? Have you spoken to John Prescott about this? He might tell


you some of the difficulties. There's not even a debate about that


here, Kezia Dugdale, it is fantasy. I speak to John Prescott regularly.


What there is a debate about is the idea the world is changing so fast


that globalisation is taking jobs away from communities in the


north-east, that many working class communities feel left behind, that


Westminster feels very far away and the politicians within it feel


remote in part of the establishment. People are fed up with power being


exercised somewhere else, that's where I think federalism comes in


because it's about bringing power closer to people and in many ways


it's forced on us because of Brexit. We know the United Kingdom is


leaving the European Union so we have to talk about the repatriation


of those powers from Brussels to Britain. I want many of those powers


to go to the Scottish parliament but where should they go in the English


context? It is not as things currently stand the policy of the


English Labour Party to carve England into federal regions,


correct? It is absolutely the policy of the


UK Labour Party to support the people's Constitutional convention


to examining these questions. I think it is really important. You're


promising the Scottish people a federal solution, and you have not


even squared your own party for a federal solution in England. That is


not true. The UK Labour Party is united on this. I am going to


Cardiff next month to meet with Carwyn Jones and various leaders.


United on a federal solution? You know as well as I know it is not


united on a federal solution. We will have a conversation about power


in this country. It is not united on that


issue? This is the direction of travel. It is what you heard


yesterday from Sadiq Khan, from Tom Watson, when you hear from people


like Nick Forbes who lead Newcastle City Council and Labour's Local


Government Association. There is an appetite for talking about power.


Talking is one thing. We need to have this conversation across the


whole of the United Kingdom, to have a reformed United Kingdom. It is a


conversation you're offering Scotland, not the policy. Let's come


onto the labour made of London. He was in power for your conference. He


wrote in the record yesterday, there is no difference between Scottish


nationalism and racism. Would you like this opportunity to distance


yourself from that absurd claim? I think that Sadiq Khan was very clear


yesterday that he was not accusing the SNP of racism. What he was


saying clearly is that nationalism by its very nature divides people


and communities. That is what I said in my speech yesterday. I am fed up


living in a divided and fractured country and society. Our politics is


forcing is constantly to pick sides, whether you're a no, leave a remain,


it brings out the worst in our politicians and politics. All the


consensus we find in the grey areas is lost. That is why am standing


under a banner that together we are stronger. We have to come up with


ideas and focus on the future. That is why I agree with Sadiq Khan. He


said quite clearly in the Daily Record yesterday, and that the last


minute he adapted his speech to your conference yesterday, to try and


reduce the impact, that there was no difference between Scottish


nationalism and racism. Your colleague, and Sarwar, said that


even after he had tried to introduce the caveats, all forms of


nationalism rely on creating eyes and them. Let's call it for what it


is. So you are implying that the Scottish Nationalists are racist.


Would you care to distance yourself from that absurd claim? I utterly


refute that that is what Sadiq Khan said. I would never suggest that the


SNP are an inherently racist party. That does is a disservice. He did


not see it. What he did say, however, is that nationalism is


divisive. You know that better than anyone. I see your Twitter account.


Regularly your attack for the job you do as a journalist. Politics in


Scotland is divided on. I do not want to revisit that independence


question again for that reason. As leader of the Labour Party, I want


to bring our country back together, appeal to people who voted yes and


no. That banner, together we are stronger, that is where the answers


lie in defaulters can be found. If in response to the Mayor of London,


your colleague says, let's call it out for what it is, what is he


referring to if he is not implying that national symbol is racist? --


and that nationalism is racist? He is saying that it leads to divisive


politics. The Labour Party has always advocated that together we


are stronger. Saying something is divisive is very different from


saying something is racist. That is what the Mayor of London said. That


is what your colleague was referring to. He did not. You would really


struggle to quote that from the Mayor of London. He talked about


being divided by race. What does that mean? I think he was very clear


that he was talking about divided politics. There is an appetite the


length and breadth of the country to end that divisive politics. That is


what I stand for, focusing on the future, bringing people back


together, concentrating on what the economy might look like in 20 years'


time in coming up with ideas to tackle it today. Thank you for


joining us. Thursday's win for Labour


in Stoke-on-Trent Central gave some relief to Jeremy Corbyn,


but for Ukip leader and defeated Stoke candidate Paul Nuttall


there were no consolation prizes. I'm joined now by Mr Nuttall's


principal political Welcome to the programme. Good


morning. How long will Paul Nuttall survivors Ukip leader, days, weeks,


months? You are in danger of not seeing the wood for the trees. Ukip


was formed in 1993 with the express purpose, much mocked, of getting


Britain out of the European Union. Under the brilliant leadership of


Nigel Farage, we were crucial in forcing a vacuous Prime Minister to


make a referendum promise he did not want to give. With our friends in


Fort leave and other organisations. Mac we know that. Get to the answer.


We helped to win that referendum. The iteration of Ukip at the moment


that we're in, the primary purpose, we are the guard dog of Brexit.


Viewed through that prism, the Stoke by-election was a brilliant success.


A brilliant success? We had the Tory candidate that had pumped out


publicity for Remain, for Cameron Bradley, preaching the gospel of


Brexit. We had a Labour candidate and we know what he really felt


about Brexit, preaching the Gospel according to Brexit. You lost. Well


the by-election was going on, we had the Labour Party in the House of


Commons pass the idea of trickling Article 50 by a landslide. Are


passionate thing, the thing that 35,000 Ukip members care about the


most, it is an extraordinary achievement. I am very proud. What


would you have described as victory as? If we could have got Paul


Nuttall into the House of Commons, that would have been a fantastic


cherry on the top. Losing was an extraordinary achievement? Many Ukip


supporters the Stoke was winnable, but Paul Nuttall's campaign was


marred by controversy, Tory voters refuse to vote tactically for Ukip


to beat Labour, his campaign, Mr Nuttall is to blame for not winning


what was a winnable seat? I do not see that at all. This is


counterintuitive, but Jeremy Corbyn did do one thing that made it more


difficult for us to win. Fantasy. That was to take Labour into a


Brexit position formerly. Just over 50 Labour MPs had voted against


triggering Article 50. In political terms, we have intimidated the


Labour Party into backing Brexit. How much good is it doing you? It


comes to the heart of the problem your party faces.


You're struggling to win Tory Eurosceptic voters. For the moment,


they seem happy with Theresa May. Stoke shows you're not winning


Labour Brexit voters either. If you cannot get the solution Tolisso


labour, where does your Broad come from? In terms of the by-election,


it came very early for Paul. I'm talking about the future. We have a


future agenda, and ideological argument with Jeremy Corbyn's Labour


Party, which is wedded to the notion of global citizenship and does not


recognise the nation state. We know he spent Christmas sitting around


campfires with Mexican Marxist dreaming of global government. We


believe in the nation state. We believe that the patriotic working


class vote will be receptive to that. Your Broad went down by 9% in


Cortland. In Copeland we were squeezed. In Stoke, we were unable


to squeeze the Tories, who are on a high. Our agenda is that social


solidarity is important but we arrange it in this country by nation


and community. We want an immigration system that is not only


reducing... We know what you want. I do not think people do. You had a


whole by-election to tell people and they did not vote for you and. When


Nigel Farage said it was fundamental that you were winner in Stoke, he


was wrong? Nigel chooses his own words. I would not rewrite them. It


would be a massive advantage to Ukip to have a leader in the House of


Commons in time to reply to the budget, Prime Minister's questions


and all of that. But we have taken the strategic view that we will


fight the Labour Party for the working class vote. It is also true


that the Conservatives will make a pitch for the working class vote


might as well. All three parties have certain advantages and


disadvantages. As part of that page, Nigel Farage said that your leader,


Paul Nuttall, should have taken a clear, by which I assume he meant


tough, line on immigration. Do you agree? He took a tough line on


immigration. He developed that idea at our party conference in the


spring. Nigel Farage did not think so? Nigel Farage made his speech


before Paul Nuttall made his speech. He said this in the aftermath of the


result. Once we have freedom to control and Borders, Paul wants to


set up an immigration system that includes an aptitude test, do you


have skills that the British economy needs, but also, and attitudes test,


do you subscribe to core British values such as gender equality and


freedom of expression? We will be making these arguments. It is


certainly true that Paul's campaign was thrown off course by,


particularly something that we knew the Labour Party had been preparing


to run, the smear on the untruths, the implications about Hillsborough.


If you knew you should have anticipated it. Alan Banks, he helps


to bankroll your party, he said that Mr Nuttall needs to toss out the


Tory cabal in Europe, by which he means Douglas Carswell, Neil


Hamilton. Should they be stripped of their membership? Of course not. As


far as I knew, Alan Banks was a member of the Conservative Party


formally. I do not know who this Tory cabal is supposed to be. He


says that your party is more like a jumble sale than a political party.


He says that the party should make him chairman or they will work. What


do you see to that? He has made that statement several times over many


months, including if you do not throw out your only MP. Douglas


Carswell has managed to win twice under Ukip colours. Should Tibi


chairman? I think we have an excellent young chairman at the


moment. He is doing a good job. The idea that Leave.EU was as smooth


running brilliant machine, that does not sit with the facts as I


understand them. Suzanne Evans says it would be no great loss for Ukip


if Mr Banks walked out, severed his ties and took his money elsewhere.


Is she right. I am always happy people who want to give money and


support your party want to stay in the party. The best donors donate


and do not seek to dictate. If they are experts in certain fields,


people should listen to their views but to have a daughter telling the


party leader who should be party chairman, that is a nonstarter. You


have described your existing party chairman is excellent. He said it


could be 20 years before Ukip wins by-election. Is he being too


optimistic? There is a general election coming up in the years'


time. We will be aiming to win seats in that. Before that, we will be the


guard dog for Brexit, to make sure this extraordinary achievement of a


little party... You are guard dog without a kennel, you cannot get


seat? We're keeping the big establishment parties to do the will


of the people. If we achieve nothing else at all, that will be a


magnificent achievement. Thank you very much.


Sweden isn't somewhere we talk about often


should because this week it was pulled into


the global spotlight, thanks


Last weekend, Mr Trump was mocked for referring to an incident that


had occurred last night in Sweden as a result of the country's open


Critics were quick to point out that no such incident had occurred


and Mr Trump later clarified on Twitter and he was talking


about a report he had watched on Fox News.


But as if to prove he was onto something,


next day a riot broke out in a Stockholm suburb


with a large migrant population, following unrest in such areas


So what has been Sweden's experience of migration?


In 2015, a record 162,000 people claimed asylum there, the second


That number dropped to 29,000 in 2016 after the country introduced


border restrictions and stopped offering permanent


Tensions have risen, along with claims of links to crime,


although official statistics do not provide evidence of a refugee driven


Nigel Farage defended Mr Trump, claiming this week that migrants


have led to a dramatic rise in sexual offences.


Although the country does have the highest reported


rate of rape in Europe, Swedish authorities say recent rises


were due to changes to how rape and sex crimes are recorded.


Aside from the issue of crime, Sweden has struggled


Levels of inequality between natives and migrants when it comes


Unemployment rates are three times higher for foreign-born workers


We're joined now by Laila Naraghi, she's a Swedish MP from the


governing Social Democratic Party, and by the author and


The Swedish political establishment was outraged by Mr Trump's remarks,


pointing to a riot that hadn't taken place, then a few nights later


serious riots did break out in a largely migrant suburb of Stockholm


so he wasn't far out, was he? I think he was far out because he is


misleading the public with how he uses these statistics. I think it is


important to remember that the violence has decreased in Sweden for


the past 20 years and research shows there is no evidence that indicate


that immigration leads to crime and so I think it is far out. The social


unrest in these different areas is not because of their ethical


backgrounds of these people living there but more about social economic


reasons. OK, no evidence migrants are responsible for any kind of


crime? This story reminds me after what happened to the Charlie Hebdo


attacks in Paris when also a Fox News commentator said something that


was outlandish about Paris and the Mayor of Paris threatened to sue Fox


News, saying you are making our city look bad. It's a bit like that


because the truth on this lies between Donald Trump on the Swedish


authorities on this. Sweden and Swedish government is very reluctant


to admit any downsides of its own migration policy and particularly


the migration it hard in 2015 but there are very obvious downsides


because Sweden is not a country that needs a non-skilled labour force


which doesn't speak Swedish. What was raised as the matter of


evidence, what is the evidence? First of all if I can say so the


rape statistics in Sweden that have been cited are familiar with the


rape statistics across other countries that have seen similar


forms of migration. Danish authorities and the Norwegian


authorities have recorded a similar thing. It is not done by ethnicity


so we don't know. And this is part of the problem. It is again a lot of


lies and rumours going about. When it is about for example rape, it is


difficult to compare the statistics because in Sweden for example many


crimes that in other countries are labelled as bodily harm or assault


are in Sweden labelled as rape. Also how it is counted because if a woman


goes to the police and reports that her husband or boyfriend has raped


her, and done it every night for one year, in Sweden that is counted as


365 offences. Something is going wrong, I look at the recent news


from Sweden. Six Afghan child refugees committed suicide in the


last six months, unemployment among recent migrants now five times


higher than among non-migrants. We have seen gang violence in Malmo


where a British child was killed by a grenade, rioting in Stockholm.


Police in Sweden say there are 53 areas of the country where it is now


dangerous to patrol. Something has gone wrong. Let me get back to what


I think is the core of this debate if I may and that is the right for


people fleeing war and political persecution to seek asylum, that is


a human right. In Sweden we don't think we can do everything, but we


want to live up to our obligation, every country has an obligation to


receive asylum seekers. But you have changed your policy on that because


having taken 163,001 year alone, you have then closed your borders, I


think very wisely, closed the border which means 10,000 people per day at


one point were walking from Denmark in to Malmo, you rightly changed


that so he realised whatever ones aspirations in terms of asylum, it


sometimes meets reality and Sweden is meeting the reality of this.


Let's respond to that. We are not naive, we know we cannot do


everything but we want to try to do our share as we think other


countries also need to do their share. But let me say that, if you


look at what the World Economic Forum is saying about our country


they show we are in the top of many rankings, the best country to live


in, to age in, to have children in, to start into -- to start


enterprise. Why have you not been so good at integrating migrants? The


unemployment rate is five times higher among migrants than


non-migrants and that's the highest ratio of any country in the EU and


the OECD, why have you not been able to integrate the people you have


brought in for humanitarian reasons? I'm sure there are things we can do


much better of course but if you look for example at the immigration


that came in the 90s from the Balkans, they are well integrated


and contributing to our society. They are starting enterprises and


working in different fields of society, and they help our country.


Why have they not got jobs, the migrants that have come in? It takes


time. In the 90s we managed it and I'm sure we can do it again. Can I


put this into some context, it is clear Sweden has got problems as a


result of the number of migrants that come in, whether it is as bad


as Mr Trump and others make out is another matter, but perhaps I can


put it into context. Malmo, which has been at the centre of many of


these migrant problems, its homicide rate is three per hundred thousand.


Chicago, 28 per 100,000. It may have problems but they are not huge. No,


they are pretty huge and I think they will grow. The Balkan refugees


into Sweden in the 90s did bring a lot of problems and Sweden did for


the first time see serious ethnic gang rivalries. There was an upsurge


in gang-related violence that has gone on since. The situation in


Malmo in particular is exaggerated by some people, there's no doubt


about that, I have been there many times and it is undoubtedly


exaggerated by some, it is also vastly unpersuaded by the Swedish


authorities. -- understated. In 2010, one in ten Jews in Malmo


registered some form of attack on them. It got so bad that in 2010


people offered to escort Jews... You have had a good say and I have got


to be fair here, what do you say to that, Laila Naraghi? There are


people trying to frame our country in a certain way to push their own


agenda. I regret that President Trump is trying to slander our


country. But what about the specific point on Malmo? If you speak to


people in Malmo and also to different congregations, they say


they are working together with the authorities to improve this. I say


again, there are a lot of people trying to spread rumours and lies.


Your situation is very like the situation we had in Britain when we


have these situations in Rotherham and elsewhere. 1400 girls were raped


in Rotherham before police even admitted it was going on. That


happened in Britain in the last decade, a similar phenomenon. An


upsurge in particularly sexual and other forms of violence and then


total denial by an entire political class is now something that is


happening in Sweden. I see it in Swedish authorities and the denial


that comes up and the desire to laugh and dismiss Trump but he's not


answer nothing and that's a painful thing for any society to want to


admit to. There are number of Swedes who think the establishment is


covering up the true statistics, that you don't break crime down by


ethnic crimes, people are suspicious of the centre-left and centre-right


parties now in Sweden. There is no denial and no cover-up. This is what


I'm speaking about when I say people are trying to frame it in a certain


way. The social unrest is not because of the ethnical background


of the people living there but rather because of different


socioeconomics conditions. There is no research that shows


immigration... But you don't do the research into it. Swedish


authorities deliberately ensure you cannot carry out such research and


after the attacks in Cologne in 2015 it was the first time then that the


Swedish authorities and press admitted that similar sexual


molestation have been going on for years in Sweden. Is it right to


think, given the problem is maybe not as bad as many people make out


but clearly problems, given these problems, is the age of mass asylum


seeking for Sweden over? You have cut the numbers by 80% coming in


last year compared with 2015, is it over while you concentrate on


getting right the people that you have there already? We want to do


our share, we have done a lot and now we are concentrating of course


on integration and making sure people get a job, and also


on big welfare investments because it's important to remember that for


eight years Sweden were governed by a government that prioritised big


tax cuts instead of investment in welfare. It may just not work. I am


grateful to you both, we have to leave it there.


It's coming up to 11:40am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.


We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now


the Week Ahead, when we'll be asking if the Government is facing defeat


Council tax is on the rise but we'll still face cuts to services


Councils here say they're getting a raw deal from the Government.


Nottingham has received nothing, Derby has received nothing,


And the campaign to fight tooth decay in children


moves into the classroom, where some are already


You've got your big teeth and if you eat too much


sugar and they fall out, you will not get any more.


David Tredinnick is the Conservative MP for Bosworth and Vernon Coaker


First, let's get your reaction to this week's by-elections...


Labour, of course, holding on in Stoke-on-Trent,


beating off the Ukip challenge, but getting trounced


in Copeland in Cumbria, losing a solid Labour seat


So, Vernon Coaker, the East Midlands Labour Party did


play a major role in campaigning in Stoke-on-Trent, hardly a big


As far as Stoke is concerned, it was really important


for the Labour Party to have defeated Ukip.


We have heard a lot from Ukip and Paul Nuttall in particular about the


way in which they were going to become the true representatives of


the working class, coming to the Midlands and the North of England,


to the traditional Labour seats, and it will go into us there. We have


the leader of Ukip, Paul Nuttall, going to one of the biggest


majorities for Brexit, in the whole of the country, let alone the East


Midlands, and he loses. He perhaps is not done yet. Perhaps, but he is


in Stoke. He thought he was going to win. Not a good result in Copeland.


You were campaigning with Jeremy Corbyn Tom Stalker, that cannot have


been easy given that you resign from his cabinet. He is the leader of the


party, he was elected. You campaign with the leader of the party. We


campaigned hard in ten seam-mac. We made sure people were aware of our


for some of the things he had said for some of the things he had said


that he wanted. David, I detect some that he wanted. David, I detect some


quiet satisfaction amongst conservatives. But perhaps the


Tredinnick shows that they will be Tredinnick shows that they will be


harder to defeat than expected. If Ukip had put up a better candidate,


the Conservatives would have one Stoke because the vote would have


held up. It was only because Ukip were unable to get at the labour


vote that they did not win. In Copeland, we had the best result


since 1878, and not only that, we have strengthened the Prime


Minister's can immeasurably in negotiations in Brexit, so they are


international ramifications here, in which he is not the strongest leader


in Europe because she had demanded that no Prime Minister has had for


100 years, and that is winning a seat from the opposition when in


government. Vernon, there will be a lot of browbeating after the result


in Copeland. Jon Ashworth on Twitter said this was so disappointing, a


bit of an understatement. Lifelong Labour supporters turning their back


on the party after more than 80 years. It would be ridiculous to say


it was anything other than a bad result for Labour in Copeland. It


was a bad result but a good local candidate and campaign but in the


end we lost the vote. Was that down to Jeremy Corbyn? There was an issue


around nuclear power and our support for that although we tried to


reassure people about that. We have to think clearly long and hard about


the way in which we will respond to that defeat and how we persuade


people that we might have some of the answers to the problems.


Certainly before the elections any month of May, not long to go till


then. Next, the amount we pay to our local


councils is set to rise, but local authorities


are still warning we'll Councils have been working


out their tax charges for the coming year,


with increases of up But they warn they still don't


have enough money to pay Our political reporters have been


taking a look at what it means How we care for the elderly


and the disabled has become the major issue to affect


all of our councils. In Nottingham, adult social care


accounts for around one third of the city's spending and some


of that goes to pay for centres like this,


the Martin Jackaman Centre in Aspley that provides specialist care


for those with physical Labour-controlled Nottingham City


Council have criticised the Government for what they have


said are unfair cuts that mean disadvantaged areas like Nottingham


are missing out The poorer the area,


the more that they have lost. The poorest areas in this country,


and Nottingham is the 20th, It is a scandal that


has yet to be told. There is billions and billions


being transferred from the North And it is a similar picture


in the county with Labour leader Alan Rhodes writing


to the Chancellor last week, urging him to address


what he called the funding crisis Nottinghamshire County Council has


lost around ?200 million in funding since 2010 and are proposing


a rising council tax In Nottingham City it will be


an extra ?1 a week on the average council tax bill to make up


for losing ?82 million in funding Derby City Council has a budget


shortfall of ?14 million this year, so it is cutting back


on non-statutory services, that is the things that it does


not have to do by law, and instead is asking


for the public's help to Now, charities and individuals


will be able to apply for that funding to pay for,


well, pretty much anything, from self-defence classes to flower


beds and help for the homeless. The project is costing ?45,000


to set up and the council is putting in ?60,000 of funding to help


those appeals along. Now, there is only one problem


with the whole crowdfunding Who fancies putting their hands


into their pockets? Now over to Tim Parker


for the picture in Leicestershire. Here in Leicester and


Leicestershire, we have already seen some big budget cuts


across community services. Let us take a look at


some of the figures. In Leicestershire,


they have made budget cuts They need to save a further


?66 million by 2020, of which ?23 million has yet


to be identified. Leicester City Council has said it


has had to make budget cuts of ?100 million


between 2010 and 2016. Its target was to save a further


?55 million by 2020. ?22 million of this has


yet to be identified. Here, in Leicestershire,


we have already seen the closure and demolition of the mining museum


in Snibston, and our smallest libraries in the county


are being handed over to communities to run, like this one in Thurmaston,


and a couple of the volunteers Carole, firstly, do you think


it is right that local people should No, the council should run it,


but as there is not the money available to run it,


then the only way we can do Well, Joe is 16, you are


volunteering here as well, why? This is for my Duke


of Edinburgh Silver Award and I want to help towards the local


community and to complete my award. A couple of volunteers


here in Thurmaston. All 39 of Leicestershire's smallest


libraries will be handed over to their local communities


in the next few months. This is Tim Parker,


in Leicestershire. So, in Leicestershire, David, the


conservative cancer, as you well know, one of the lowest funded per


head in the whole of the country, they are regularly lobbying MPs like


yourself. Are you listening? -- Conservative centre. Yes, because we


will see changes to the funding of councils, a fairer system. Better to


get resources. How will it be fair? The money will be Bicester we did


more in accordance with the EU and we will look at the rural parts.


There will be improvements. One of the things that has happened is


increased funding for social care. As we go through the transition,


we'll be bring social care and the health budgets together under the


auspices of the organisations. It is not all bad news. As far as


volunteers are concerned, it is surely better to let the community


run them. They do not have much choice as we heard. The Deputy


Leader of Nottingham City Council, Mr Chapman, he has said that they


are getting no help from the government to cope with the cuts


while better of councils done in the south of the country are. He has


described that as a national scandal. He might tell you that but


he is wrong. There will be a fairer distribution of raids across the


country. At the moment, some of the major cities get twice as much money


as the individual as people in my constituency, for example, and have


areas of deprivation just as they exist in Birmingham. So you do not


feel that areas are missing out? The East Midlands will have a fairer


distribution system in the future. It does not matter who you talk to,


it is the local government Association, the Institute for


Fiscal Studies or any of the local bodies, P Dettori, labour, whatever,


and Mr Darby, whatever, they all recognise that the system is unfair,


we are unfairly funded. The south gets better funding than we do and


even under the fairer funding images that David talks about, that will


not change, they will still be a discrepancy and it will mean that


people in Leicestershire, in Nottinghamshire, in Derbyshire, in


the cities, they will receive a worse level of service. They will


not get the level of funding needed, whether it is social care, housing,


and so on. The idea that we have community volunteers looking after


libraries because it is a good policy decision, it has nothing to


do with policy, it is the only be to ensure that they remain open. That


is the truth, David, is it not? There is a change, younger people


are not going to libraries, they are going online. They cannot go to them


if they are not open. There is a decline in demand for libraries, but


I very much welcome the idea of local people helping to save local


libraries when they are targets for reductions to funding. But David,


they are only doing that because it will close. Everybody wants


volunteering but it is to supplement services, not as a replacement for


essential services, surely? If you have got a county funded library and


there are pressures on the budget, surely it is better that local


people who love books help in the libraries rather than see them


close? Should the Labour Party be going along with these cuts in the


first place? We have to balance the budget, it is illegal not to do so.


No one is suggesting anyone should act in an illegal manner. But labour


councils are doing what they can to protect the people affected by the


worst of this Tory austerity. It has been suggested that money should be


taken out of the reserves right now to lessen the cuts. The council is


breaking into ?70 million but the Tories have said they could take


more, is that wise to suggest? There are always choices to make but the


reality is that if you look at each of the hospitals, for example, in


our region. Just did not University Hospital, there are people on


average, 52 people per day, it cannot get out of hospital because


there is not social care support mechanisms available to them. It is


a regional and national scandal and the governments son around and tell


you that it has provided some money, councils have put up their attacks


there is a crisis. Social care is there is a crisis. Social care is


one of the biggest concern is one of the biggest concerns is that we're


facing. The Health and Social Care Act was taken to in the last


Parliament and I am a member of the Health Committee which I chair from


time to time. It brings together health and social care. We have a


huge increase in demand for services because people are living longer and


they require more care. One of the things we must do is to encourage


people to look after themselves. They can do that by not getting


overweight, by taking exercise, there must be education and we do


not have that. If there are other systems such as homoeopathic


medicine that I have supported over the years where you can keep a


of remedies at home, try treating of remedies at home, try treating


yourself before you even get to your doctor. But what would that solve?


One of the problems is demand or daughters which continues to rise.


We do not have a social care crisis because the elderly are overweight!


We have a social care crisis because there is a shortage of funding.


There are people medical are set to be discharged from hospital to go


into the community and they cannot go because there is not a care home


place or a social care support package available. There is a crisis


in our social care. It is a problem with funding,


not that people are overweight. People should be looking after


themselves. We must have responsibility to do that as well.


Overweight people have a greater likelihood of heart attacks and


diabetes, that means they will spend more time in hospital and harder to


discharge. Some would say that your government is simply passing the


buck with these austerity cuts and beating the council do your dirty


work for them. You have to have a budget, it is not just councils. One


of the reasons there have been some reductions in supply of money for


local government to make good the deficit which the Labour Party left


us with when they left power. To have a successful economy with low


taxes and businesses that are thriving, you have to have some


control over government expenditure, you cannot just write checks for


everything. OK. There's a new campaign


in East Midlands schools to tackle Dental teams have found that some


children in deprived parts of the region don't even


own a toothbrush and children younger than ten have needed surgery


to have their teeth removed. Here's our political


editor, Tony Roe. At school today, these


children in Nottingham are learning a lesson in life,


it is a lesson not to Right, so we are just doing


a check-up for you today, Sean. You've got your big teeth


and if you eat too much sugar and they fall out,


you will not get any more. And you would have


to have fake teeth. Southwark Primary is one of three


schools in Nottingham being used as a pilot for what is called


the Teeth Team. It is a scheme developed in Hull,


where the problem of decaying children's teeth is the worst


in the country. You get multiple extractions under


general anaesthetic, which is obviously not a good thing


to put a child under. They can have problems


with speech... Obviously, they come to school


in pain, which is not good. They have time off school due


to the pain and dental visits. Let us have a look with the magic


mirror, open wide... The Nottingham North MP Graham Allen


fears his city is not that far behind Hull,


which is why he asked What they found in their work


shocks the assumptions Some children do not even


have a toothbrush at home, so what we're finding


is that they are taking these skills home with them and then hoping


that they carry on that message and that routine for


the rest of their lives. A combination of sugary drinks,


poor diet and lack of brushing means that tooth decay is the main reason


why five to nine-year-olds It costs the health service ?30


million each year to treat children, In the most deprived parts


of the East Midlands, there are examples of some children


who have had to have They want to expand the Teeth Team


project into every primary school. They say it will save money,


but more important than that, Back at Southwark Primary,


they value the lessons and the input The feedback from parents has


been extremely positive and also from our pupils


and teachers as well. So we are delighted


with the success. Everything we can do to promote


those healthy lifelong habits is a positive benefit


to all of our community. A child with healthy teeth means


that they do not have pain from the aching and they can


take lessons home. What we're hoping is to instil that


good routine that they will take with them and obviously


teach their children What will also help, according


to the dental professionals, is adding fluoride to the water


supplies, especially The local MP is pressing


for that to happen. It is truly shocking, isn't it, to


hear that children younger than ten have already lost some of their


adult teeth? Why can this be happening in the 21st century? This


government is introducing a sugar tax to bear down on the amount of


sugar in drinks, that is really important. We have clearly got a


problem that parents are not taking their children to dentists and there


might have to be a requirement that might have to be a requirement that


they do so. They might have to be legislation to make this happen. We


cannot have a situation where children was a lot of teeth. It is


almost a form of abuse. Are you being -- are you blaming the parents


or the sugary drinks? Both. Parents must understand they have an


obligation to look after the health of their children. That is fair


enough, isn't it, Vernon Coaker? It is obvious to say that parents have


an obligation to look after their children and clearly they must


ensure that children clean their teeth. But some parents cannot


access an NHS dentist and their teeth fall the date, it is the for


more likely that their children's teeth might follow suit. That could


be true and we might have to look at the position of school dentists and


so on. But there is an issue around parents have a responsibility.


Clearly, as they would have said, I am not sure about meeting a legal


requirement but there are issues around sugar and payments, it is


unacceptable and we are not doing well enough at the present time. We


will hear more about the sugar tax in the upcoming budget in March,


what more can you tell us? Well, I do not know what will be in the


budget, but I know that companies are going to pay more tax if there


is no sugar. The number of dentists, that issue was dealt with about a


decade ago, dentists increased through training. That is not the


problem that it used to be but we have to find those children that are


suffering and it does mean that people have got to take more


responsibility for their own lives, their health, obesity and the lives


of their children. We need a new culture which is almost like the old


culture, where there was more self-help rather than constantly


asking others to solve problems, constantly going to the doctor went


for simple complaints they could have been treated by other remedies


at home. I have quoted homoeopathic medicine, try it out. If it is


serious, go to the doctor, but if not, do not waste their time. Would


schools across the country? What, schools across the country? What,


fluoride is in? -- what the use of fluoride? No, the idea of a Teeth


Team going into schools and helping them? Absolutely. Try to make it


easier for schools and parents, toothbrushes are incredibly cheap.


But there must be a demand that we do not let these children fall into


a state where it cost the health service a fortune. Would the Labour


Party support a sugar tax? We are willing to explore it, it would


depend how it is done, but something clearly needs to be done and a sugar


tax is one option for sugary drinks and so on. I think that the example


used at that school where that school dental project, and not sure


what it was called. The Teeth Team. That is correct. It was expanded and


spread out, the cost in the short term will be better than the


long-term damage. So you would be supportive of that, more programmes


like that across the country? What about the use of fluoride, is that


the answer, yes or no? Nottingham is not the only place to have a problem


with bad teeth. Yes, the use of fluoride is one possibility. There


is some controversy. I am in favour. Thank you very much.


Time now for a round-up of some of the other political stories


The National Union of Teachers in Leicestershire wants parents


to lobby MPs over cuts to school funding.


It says it could mean redundancies for teachers and support staff.


The Government has said its new funding formula


Firms in the East Midlands are calling for an overhaul


The East Midlands Chamber says the system is broken and wants


a scheme linked to a company's ability to pay rather


The Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt wants a review of the overnight


closure of A services at Grantham Hospital.


Three MPs, including Grantham's Nick Boles,


who is being treated for cancer, have met the Prime Minister


The Nottingham by-election veteran David Bishop,


better known as Bus Pass Elvis, is retiring from politics


But he said he is reserving the right to return and the name


is already registered with the Electoral Commission.


Elvis And The Yeti Himalayan Preservation Party -


That's the Sunday Politics in the East Midlands,


thanks to Vernon Coaker and David Tredinnick.


Next week Edward Argar and Willy Bach will be here.


Welcome back. Article 50, which triggers the beginning of Britain


leaving the European Union and start negotiations, is winding its way


through the Lords in this coming week. Tarzan has made an


intervention, let's just see the headline from the Mail on Sunday.


Lord Heseltine, Michael Heseltine, my fightback starts here, he is


going to defy Theresa May. I divide one Prime Minister over the poll


tax, I'm ready to defy this one in the Lords over Brexit. There we go,


that's going to happen this week. We will see how far he gets. I don't


think he will get very far, I don't think Loyalist Tory MPs and


Brexiteers are quaking in their boots at the prospect of a rebellion


led by Michael Heseltine. I sense that many Tory MPs are already


moving on to the next question about Brexit, and the discussion over how


much it will cost us to come out. The fact they are already debating


that suggests to me they feel things will go fairly smoothly in terms of


the legislation. When I spoke to the Labour leader in the Lords last week


on the daily politics, she said she was going to push hard for the kind


of amendments Lord has all-time is talking about and they would bring


that back to the Commons. But if the Commons pinged it back to the Lords


with the amendments taken out, she made it clear that was the end of


it. Is that right? That's about right. This is probably really a


large destruction. There will be to micro issues that come up in the


Lords, one is on the future of EU nationals, that could be voted on as


soon as this Wednesday, and then the main vote in the Lords on a week on


Tuesday, when there is this question of what sort of vote will MPs and


peers get at the end of the Brexit process and that is what has


all-time is talking about. He wants to make sure there are guarantees in


place. The kind of things peers are looking for are pretty moderate and


the Government have hinted they could deliver on both of them


already. But they are still not prepared... Amber Rudd said they


were not prepared... They may say yes we are going to do that but they


won't allow whatever that is to be enshrined in the legislation. The


question is whether we think this is dancing on the head of a pin. The


Government have already promised something in the House of Commons,


but will they write it down, I don't think that's the biggest problem in


the world. In a sense this is a great magicians trick by Theresa May


because it is not the most important thing. The most important thing in


Brexit is going on in those committees behind closed doors when


they are trying to work out what the next migration system is for Britain


and there are some interesting, indeed toxic proposals, but at the


moment Downing Street are happy to let us talk about the constitutional


propriety of what MPs are doing over the next eight days. It seems to me


the irony is that if we had a second chamber that can claim some kind of


democratic legitimacy, which the one we have cannot, it would be able to


cause the Government more trouble on this, it would be more robust.


Absolutely. I saw the interview we did with the Labour Leader of the


Lords, they are very conscious, of the fact they are not elected and


have limited powers. She was clear to you they would not impede the


timetable for triggering Article 50 so we might get a bit of theatre,


Michael Heseltine might deliver a brilliant speech. It is interesting


that Euroscepticism gun under Margaret Thatcher in the Tory party


but two offer senior ministers Ken Clarke and Michael Heseltine are the


most prominent opponents now but they will change nothing at this


point. She will have the space to trigger Article 50 within her


timetable. Let's move on. Let me show you a picture tweeted by Nigel


Farage. That is Nigel Farage and a small


group of people having dinner, and within that small group of people is


the president of the United States, and it was taken in the last couple


of days. This would suggest that if he can command that amount of the


President's time in a small group of people, then he's actually rather


close to the president. Make no mistake about it, Nigel Farage is


now to and fro Washington more regularly than perhaps he is here.


Hopefully that LBC programme is recorded over in the state. He's not


only close to the president but to a series of people within the


administration. That relationship there is a remarkable one and one to


keep an eye on. Will the main government be tempted to tap into


that relationship at any time or is it just seething with anger? You can


feel a ripple of discontentment over this. We are in the middle of


negotiating the state visit and the sort of pomp and circumstance and


what kind of greeting Britain should give Donald Trump when he comes over


later in the year. There is a great deal of neurotic thought going into


what that should look like, but one of the most interesting things about


our relationship with Donald Trump is that there is a nervousness among


some Cabinet ministers that we are being seen to go too far, too fast


with the prospect of a trade deal. Even amongst some Brexiteer cabinet


ministers, they worry we won't get a very good trade deal with the US and


we are tolerably placing a lot of stalled by it. When we see the kind


of deal they want to pitch with us there might be some pulling back and


that could be an awkward moment in terms of our relationship, and no


doubt Nigel at that term -- at that point will accuse the UK of doing


the dirty on Donald Trump. If there was a deal, would they get it


through the House of Commons? Nigel Farage is having dinner with the


president, not bad as a kind of lifestyle but he's politically


rootless, he won't be an MEP much longer so if you look at where is


his political base to build on this great time he's having, there is


one. Given that there is one I think he's just having a great time and it


isn't much more significant than that. No? There's a lot to be said


for having a great time. You are having a great time. Let's just


look, because of the dominance of the Government we kind of it nor


there are problems piling up, only what, ten days with the Budget to


go, piling up for Mrs May and her government. The business rates which


has alarmed a lot of Tories, this disability cuts which are really a


serious problem for the Government, and the desperate need for more


money for social care. There are other issues, there are problems


there and they involve spending money. Absolutely and some people


argue Theresa May has only one Monday and that is to deliver Brexit


but it is impossible as a Prime Minister to ignore everything else.


And she doesn't want to either. The bubbling issue of social care and


the NHS is the biggest single problem for her in the weeks and


months ahead, she has got to come up with something. And Mr Hammond will


have to loosen his belt a little bit. I think he will in relation to


the NHS, he didn't mention it in the Autumn Statement, which was


remarkable, and he cannot get away with not mentioning it this time. If


he mentions it, it has to be in a positive context in some way or


another and it is one example of many. She is both strong because she


is so far ahead in the opinion polls, but this in tray is one of


the most daunting a Prime Minister has faced in recent times I think.


Here is what will happen on Budget day, money will be more money,


magically found down the back of the Treasury sofa. The projections are


that he has wiggle room of about 12 billion. But look at the bills,


rebels involved in business rates suggest the Chancellor will have to


throw up ?2 billion at that problem. 3.7 billion is the potential cost of


this judgment about disability benefits. The Government will try to


find different ways of satisfying it but who knows. It will not popular.


I'm not sure they will throw money at the NHS, they want an interim


settlement on social care which will alleviate pressure on the NHS but


they feel... That's another couple of billion by the way. They feel in


the Treasury that the NHS has not delivered on what Simon Stevens


promised them. But here is the bigger problem for Philip Hammond,


he has two This year and he thinks the second one in the autumn is more


important because that is when people will feel the cost living


squeeze. The Daily Politics is back at noon


on BBC Two tomorrow. We'll be back here at


the same time next week. Remember - if it's Sunday,


it's the Sunday Politics.


Andrew Neil is joined by Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale, Ukip's Patrick O'Flynn, Swedish MP Laila Naraghi and Douglas Murray of the Henry Jackson Society. Marie Ashby's guest is Vernon Coaker, while Sam Coates, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards are on the political panel.

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