Browse content similar to 21/05/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday Morning, and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
Labour attacks Conservative plans for social care and to means-test | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
So can Jeremy Corbyn eat into the Tory lead | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
Theresa May says her party's manifesto is all about fairness. | :00:40. | :00:45. | |
We'll be speaking to a Conservative cabinet minister about the plans. | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
The polls have always shown healthy leads for the Conservatives. | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
But, now we've seen the manifestos, is Labour narrowing the gap? | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
In the East Midlands, what's in it for us? | :00:58. | :01:00. | |
We'll be looking at what the manifestos mean for our region. | :01:01. | :01:02. | |
And is it time for an ethnic quota in Parliament to give more | :01:03. | :01:13. | |
And with me - as always - the best and the brightest political | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
panel in the business: Sam Coates, Isabel Oakeshott | :01:18. | :01:18. | |
and Steve Richards - they'll be tweeting throughout | :01:19. | :01:20. | |
the programme, and you can get involved by using | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn says pensioners will be up to ?330 a year | :01:24. | :01:31. | |
worse off under plans outlined in the Conservative manifesto. | :01:32. | :01:43. | |
The Work Pensions Secretary Damian Green has said his party will not | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
rethink their plans to fund social care in England. Under the plans in | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
the Conservative manifesto, nobody with assets of less than ?100,000, | :01:54. | :02:00. | |
would have to pay for care. Labour has attacked the proposal, and John | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
McDonnell, Labour's Shadow Chancellor, said this morning that | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
there needs to be more cross-party consensus. | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
That's why we supported Dilnot, but we also supported | :02:12. | :02:13. | |
Because we've got to have something sustainable over generations, | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
so that's why we've said to the Conservative Party, | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
Let's go back to that cross-party approach that actually | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
I just feel we've all been let down by what's come | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
Sam, is Labour beginning to get their argument across? What we had | :02:26. | :02:36. | |
last week was bluntly what felt like not very Lynton Crosby approved | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
Conservative manifesto. What I mean by that is that it looks like there | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
are things that will cause political difficulties for the party over this | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
campaign. I've been talking to MPs and ministers who acknowledge that | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
the social care plan is coming up on the doorstep. It has cut through | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
very quickly, and it is worrying and deterring some voters. Not just | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
pensioners, that people who are looking to inherit in the future. | :03:04. | :03:14. | |
They are all asking how much they could lose that they wouldn't have | :03:15. | :03:16. | |
lost before. A difficult question for the party to answer, given that | :03:17. | :03:19. | |
they don't want to give too much away now. Was this a mistake, or a | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
sign of the Conservatives' confidence? It has the hallmarks of | :03:26. | :03:32. | |
something that has been cobbled together in a very unnaturally short | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
time frame for putting a manifesto together. We have had mixed messages | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
from the Tory MPs who have been out on the airwaves this morning as to | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
whether they will consult on it whether it is just a starting point. | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
That said, there is still three weeks to go, and most of the Tory | :03:50. | :03:56. | |
party this morning feel this is a little light turbulence rather than | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
anything that leaves the destination of victory in doubt. It it flips the | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
normal politics. The Tories are going to make people who have a | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
reasonable amount of assets pay for their social care. What is wrong | :04:08. | :04:14. | |
with that? First, total credit for them for not pretending that all | :04:15. | :04:17. | |
this can be done by magic, which is what normally happens in an | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
election. The party will say, we will review this for the 95th time | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
in the following Parliament, so they have no mandate to do anything and | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
so do not do anything. It is courageous to do it. It is | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
electorally risky, for the reasons that you suggest, that they pass the | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
target their own natural supporter. And there is a sense that this is | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
rushed through, in the frenzy to get it done in time. I think the ending | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
of the pooling of risk and putting the entire burden on in inverted | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
commas the victim, because you cannot insure Fritz, is against the | :04:58. | :05:06. | |
spirit of a lot of the rest of the manifesto, and will give them huge | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
problems if they try to implement it in the next Parliament. Let's have a | :05:10. | :05:18. | |
look at the polls. Nearly five weeks ago, on Tuesday the 18th of April, | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
Theresa May called the election. At that point, this was the median | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
average of the recent polls. The Conservatives had an 18 point lead | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
over Labour on 25%. Ukip and the Liberal Democrats were both on 18%. | :05:35. | :05:42. | |
A draft of Labour's manifesto was leaked to the press. In the | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
intervening weeks, support for the Conservatives and Labour had | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
increased, that it had decreased for the Lib Dems and Ukip. Last Tuesday | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
came the launch of the official Labour manifesto. By that time, | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
Labour support had gone up by another 2%. The Lib Dems and Ukip | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
had slipped back slightly. Later in the week came the manifestos from | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
the Lib Dems and the Conservatives. This morning, for more polls. This | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
is how the parties currently stand on average. Labour are now on 34%, | :06:17. | :06:24. | |
up 4% since the launch of their manifesto. The Conservatives are | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
down two points since last Tuesday. Ukip and the Lib Dems are both | :06:29. | :06:35. | |
unchanged on 8% and 5%. You can find this poll tracker on the BBC | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
website, see how it was calculated, and see the results of national | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
polls over the last two years. So Isabel, is this the Tories' wobbly | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
weekend or the start of the narrowing? This is still an | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
extremely healthy lead for the Tories. At the start of this | :06:54. | :07:00. | |
campaign, most commentators expected to things to happen. First, the Lib | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
Dems would have a significant surge. That hasn't happened. Second, Labour | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
would crash and plummet. Instead they are in the health of the low | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
30s. I wonder if that tells you something about the tribal nature of | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
the Labour vote, and the continuing problems with the Tory brand. I | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
would say that a lot of Tory MPs wouldn't be too unhappy if Labour's | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
result isn't quite as bad as has been anticipated. They don't want | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
Corbyn to go anywhere. If the latest polls were to be the result on June | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
the 8th, Mr Corbyn may not be in a rush to go anywhere. I still think | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
it depends on the number of seats. If there is a landslide win, I | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
think, one way or another, he will not stay. If it is much narrower, he | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
has grounds for arguing he has done better than anticipated. The polls | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
are very interesting. People compare this with 83. In 83, the Tory lead | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
widened consistently throughout the campaign. There was the SDP - | :08:12. | :08:24. | |
Liberal Alliance doing well in the polls. Here, the Lib Dems don't seem | :08:25. | :08:26. | |
to be doing that. So the parallels with 83 don't really stack up. But | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
let's see what happens. Still early days for the a lot of people are | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
saying this is the result of the social care policy. We don't really | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
know that. How do you beat them? In the last week or so, there's been | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
the decision by some to hold their nose and vote Labour, who haven't | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
done so before. Probably the biggest thing in this election is how the | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
Right has reunited behind Theresa May. That figure for Ukip is | :08:51. | :08:57. | |
incredibly small. She has brought those Ukip voters behind her, and | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
that could be the decisive factor in many seats, rather than the Labour | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
share of the boat picking up a bit or down a bit, depending on how | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
turbulent the Tory manifesto makes it. Thank you for that. | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
We've finally got our hands on the manifestos of the two main | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
parties and, for once, voters can hardly complain that | :09:19. | :09:20. | |
So, just how big is the choice on offer to the public? | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
Since the Liberal Democrats and SNP have ruled out | :09:25. | :09:26. | |
coalitions after June 8th, Adam Fleming compares the Labour | :09:27. | :09:28. | |
Welcome to the BBC's election centre. | :09:29. | :09:31. | |
Four minutes from now, when Big Ben strikes 10.00, | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
we can legally reveal the contents of this, our exit poll. | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
18 days to go, and the BBC's election night studio | :09:40. | :09:41. | |
This is where David Dimbleby will sit, although there is no chair yet. | :09:42. | :09:51. | |
The parties' policies are now the finished product. | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
In Bradford, Jeremy Corbyn vowed a bigger state, | :09:55. | :09:57. | |
the end of austerity, no more tuition fees. | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
The Tory campaign, by contrast, is built on one word - fear. | :10:01. | :10:08. | |
Down the road in Halifax, Theresa May kept a promise to get | :10:09. | :10:16. | |
immigration down to the tens of thousands, and talked | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
of leadership and tough choices in uncertain times. | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
Strengthen my hand as I fight for Britain, and stand with me | :10:23. | :10:29. | |
And, with confidence in ourselves and a unity | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
of purpose in our country, let us go forward together. | :10:35. | :10:42. | |
Let's look at the Labour and Conservative | :10:43. | :10:45. | |
On tax, Labour would introduce a 50p rate for top earners. | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
The Conservatives ditched their triple lock, giving them | :10:52. | :11:15. | |
freedom to put up income tax and national insurance, | :11:16. | :11:17. | |
although they want to keep the overall tax burden the same. | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
Labour offered a major overhaul of the country's wiring, | :11:21. | :11:22. | |
with a pledge to renationalise infrastructure, like power, | :11:23. | :11:24. | |
The Conservatives said that would cost a fortune, | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
but provided few details for the cost of their policies. | :11:28. | :11:29. | |
Labour have simply become a shambles, and, as yesterday's | :11:30. | :11:31. | |
manifesto showed, their numbers simply do not add up. | :11:32. | :11:33. | |
What have they got planned for health and social care? | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
The Conservatives offered more cash for the NHS, | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
reaching an extra ?8 billion a year by the end of the parliament. | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
Labour promised an extra ?30 billion over the course of the same period, | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
plus free hospital parking and more pay for staff. | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
The Conservatives would increase the value of assets you could | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
protect from the cost of social care to ?100,000, but your home would be | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
added to the assessment of your wealth, | :12:04. | :12:05. | |
There was a focus on one group of voters in particular | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
Labour would keep the triple lock, which guarantees that pensions go up | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
The Tories would keep the increase in line | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
with inflation or earnings, a double lock. | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
The Conservatives would end of winter fuel payments | :12:25. | :12:26. | |
for the richest, although we don't know exactly who that would be, | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
This is a savage attack on vulnerable pensioners, | :12:31. | :12:38. | |
particularly those who are just about managing. | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
It is disgraceful, and we are calling upon the Conservative Party | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
When it comes to leaving the European Union, Labour say | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
they'd sweep away the government's negotiating strategy, | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
secure a better deal and straightaway guaranteed the rights | :12:57. | :12:58. | |
The Tories say a big majority would remove political uncertainty | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
Jeremy Vine's due here in two and a half weeks. | :13:05. | :13:17. | |
I'm joined now by David Gauke, who is Chief Secretary to the Treasury. | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
Welcome back to the programme. The Tories once promised a cap on social | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
care costs. Why have you abandoned that? We've looked at it, and there | :13:30. | :13:37. | |
are couple of proposals with the Dilnot proposal. Much of the benefit | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
would go to those inheriting larger estates. The second point was it was | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
hoped that a cap would stimulate the larger insurance products that would | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
fill the gap, but there is no sign that those products are emerging. | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
Without a cap, you will not get one. We have come forward with a new | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
proposal which we think is fairer, provide more money for social care, | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
which is very important and is one of the big issues we face as a | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
country. It is right that we face those big issues. Social care is | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
one, getting a good Brexit deal is another. This demonstrates that | :14:17. | :14:24. | |
Theresa May has an ambition to lead a government that addresses those | :14:25. | :14:26. | |
big long-term issues. Looking at social care. If you have assets, | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
including your home, of over ?100,000, you have to pay for all | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
your social care costs. Is that fair? It is right that for the | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
services that are provided to you, that that is paid out of your | :14:42. | :14:47. | |
assets, subject to two really important qualifications. First, you | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
shouldn't have your entire estate wiped out. At the moment, if you are | :14:52. | :14:58. | |
in residential care, it can be wiped out ?223,000. If you are in | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
domiciliary care, it can be out to ?23,000, plus you're domiciliary. | :15:04. | :15:10. | |
Nobody should be forced to sell their house in their lifetime if | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
they or their spouse needs long-term care. Again, we have protected that | :15:15. | :15:16. | |
in the proposals we set out. But the state will basically take a | :15:17. | :15:26. | |
chunk of your house when you die and they sell. In an essence it is a | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
stealth inheritance tax on everything above ?100,000. But we | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
have those two important protections. I am including that. It | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
is a stealth inheritance tax. We have to face up to the fact that | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
there are significant costs that we face as a country in terms of health | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
and social careful. Traditionally, politicians don't address those | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
issues, particularly during election campaigns. I think it is too Theresa | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
May's credit that we are being straightforward with the British | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
people and saying that we face this long-term challenge. Our manifesto | :16:02. | :16:04. | |
was about the big challenges that we face, one of which was | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
intergenerational fairness and one of which was delivering a strong | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
economy and making sure that we can do that. But in the end, someone is | :16:13. | :16:19. | |
going to have to pay for this. It is going to have to be a balance | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
between the general taxpayer and those receiving the services. We | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
think we have struck the right balance with this proposal. But it | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
is entirely on the individual. People watching this programme, if | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
they have a fair amount of assets, not massive, including the home, | :16:34. | :16:40. | |
they will need to pay for everything themselves until their assets are | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
reduced to ?100,000. It is not a balance, you're putting everything | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
on the original two individual. At the moment, for those in residential | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
care, they have to pay everything until 20 3000. -- everything on the | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
individual. But now they will face more. Those in individual care are | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
seeing their protection going up by four times as much, so that is | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
eliminating unfairness. Why should those in residential care be in a | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
worse position than those receiving domiciliary care? But as I say, that | :17:12. | :17:17. | |
money has to come from somewhere and we are sitting at a proper plan for | :17:18. | :17:20. | |
it. While also made the point that we are more likely to be able to | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
have a properly functioning social care market if we have a strong | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
economy, and to have a strong economy we need to deliver a good | :17:29. | :17:31. | |
deal on Brexit and I think Theresa May is capable of doing that. You | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
have said that before. But if you have a heart attack in old age, the | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
NHS will take care of you. If you have dementia, you now have to pay | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
for the care of yourself. Is that they are? It is already the case | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
that if you have long-term care costs come up as I say, if you are | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
in residential care you pay for all of it until the last ?23,000, but if | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
you are in domiciliary care, excluding your housing assets, but | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
all of your other assets get used up until you are down to ?23,000 a | :18:03. | :18:08. | |
year. And I think it is right at this point that a party that aspires | :18:09. | :18:15. | |
to run this country for the long-term, to address the long-term | :18:16. | :18:18. | |
challenges we have is a country, for us to be clear that we need to | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
deliver this. Because if it is not paid for it this way, if it goes and | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
falls on the general taxpayer, the people who feel hard pressed by the | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
amount of income tax and VAT they pay, frankly we have to say to them, | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
those taxes will go up if we do not address it. But they might go up | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
anyway. The average house price in your part of the country is just shy | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
of ?430,000, so if you told your own constituents that they might have to | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
spend ?300,000 of their assets on social care before the state steps | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
in to help...? As I said earlier, nobody will be forced to pay during | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
their lifetime. Nobody will be forced to sell their houses. We are | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
providing that protection because of the third premium. Which makes it a | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
kind of death tax, doesn't it? Which is what you use to rail against. | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
What it is people paying for the services they have paid out of their | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
assets. But with that very important protection that nobody is going to | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
be wiped out in the way that has happened up until now, down to the | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
last three years. But when Labour propose this, George Osborne called | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
it a death tax and you are now proposing a stealth death tax | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
inheritance tax. Labour's proposals were very different. It is the same | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
effect. Labour's were hitting everyone with an inheritance tax. We | :19:46. | :19:52. | |
are saying that there are -- that there is a state contribution but | :19:53. | :19:55. | |
the public receiving the services will have to pay for it out of | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
assets, which have grown substantially. And which they might | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
now lose to social care. But I would say that people in Hertfordshire pay | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
a lot in income tracks, national insurance and VAT, and this is my | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
bet is going to have to come from somewhere. Well, they are now going | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
to pay a lot of tax and pay for social care. Turning to immigration, | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
you promised to get net migration down to 100,020 ten. You failed. You | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
promised again in 2015 and you are feeling again. Why should voters | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
trust you a third time? It is very clear that only the Conservative | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
Party has an ambition to control immigration and to bring it down. An | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
ambition you have failed to deliver. There are, of course, factors that | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
come into play. For example a couple of years ago we were going through a | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
period when the UK was creating huge numbers of jobs but none of our | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
European neighbours were doing anything like it. Not surprisingly, | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
that feeds through into the immigration numbers that we see. But | :20:57. | :21:03. | |
it is right that we have that ambition because I do not believe it | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
is sustainable to have hundreds of thousands net migration, you're | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
after year after year, and only Theresa May of the Conservative | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
Party is willing to address that. It has gone from being a target to an | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
ambition, and I am pretty sure in a couple of years it will become an | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
untimed aspiration. Is net migration now higher or lower than when you | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
came to power in 2010? I think it is higher at the moment. Let's look at | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
the figures. And there they are. You are right, it is higher, so after | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
six years in power, promising to get it down to 100,000, it is higher. So | :21:41. | :21:47. | |
if that is an ambition and you have not succeeded. We have to accept | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
that there are a number of factors. It continues to be the case that the | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
UK economy is growing and creating a lot of jobs, which is undoubtedly | :21:57. | :21:59. | |
drawing people. But you made the promise on the basis that would not | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
happen? We are certainly outperforming other countries in a | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
way that we could not have predicted in 2010. That is one of the factors. | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
But if you look at a lot of the steps that we have taken over the | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
course of the last seven years, dealing with bogus students, for | :22:15. | :22:20. | |
example, tightening up a lot of the rules. You can say all that but it | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
has made no difference to the headline figure. Clearly it would | :22:25. | :22:27. | |
have gone up by much more and we not taken the steps. But as I say, we | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
cannot for ever, it seems to me, have net migration numbers in the | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
hundreds of thousands. If we get that good Brexit deal, one of the | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
things we can do is tighten up in terms of access here. You say that | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
but you have always had control of non-EU migration. You cannot blame | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
the EU for that. You control immigration from outside the EU. | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
Have you ever managed to get even that below 100,000? Well, no doubt | :22:55. | :23:01. | |
you will present the numbers now. You haven't. You have got down a bit | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
from 2010, I will give you that, but even non-EU migration is still a lot | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
more than 100000 and that is the thing you control. It is 164,000 on | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
the latest figures. There is no point in saying to the voters that | :23:17. | :23:19. | |
when we get control of the EU migration you will get it down when | :23:20. | :23:22. | |
the bit you have control over, you have failed to get that down into | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
the tens of thousands. The general trend has gone up. Non-EU migration | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
we have brought down over the last few years. Not by much, not by | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
anywhere near your 100,000 target. But we clearly have more tools | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
available to us, following Brexit. At this rate it will be around 2030 | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
before you get non-EU migration down to 100,000. We clearly have more | :23:49. | :23:51. | |
tools available to us and I return to the point I made. In the last six | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
or seven years, particularly the last four or five, we have seen the | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
UK jobs market growing substantially. It is extraordinary | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
how many more jobs we have. So you'll only promised the migration | :24:04. | :24:06. | |
target because you did not think you were going to run the economy well? | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
That is what you are telling me. I don't think anyone expected us to | :24:12. | :24:14. | |
create quite a number of jobs that we have done over the last six or | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
seven years. At the time when other European countries have not been. | :24:19. | :24:21. | |
George Osborne says your target is economically illiterate. I disagree | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
with George on that. He is my old boss but I disagree with him on that | :24:28. | :24:34. | |
point. And the reason I say that is looking at the economics and the | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
wider social impact, I don't think it is sustainable for us to have | :24:38. | :24:43. | |
hundreds of thousands, year after year after year. Let me ask you one | :24:44. | :24:46. | |
other thing because you are the chief secretary. Your promising that | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
spending on health will be ?8 billion higher in five use time than | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
it is now. How do you pay for that? From a strong economy, two years ago | :24:56. | :24:58. | |
we had a similar conversation because at that point we said that | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
we would increase spending by ?8 billion. And we are more than on | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
track to deliver it, because it is a priority area for us. Where will the | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
money come from? It will be a priority area for us. We will find | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
the money. So you have not been able to show us a revenue line where this | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
?8 billion will come from. We have a record of making promises to spend | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
more on the NHS and delivering. One thing I would say is that the only | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
way you can spend more money on the NHS is if you have a strong economy, | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
and the biggest risk... But that is true of anything. I am trying to | :25:37. | :25:39. | |
find out where the ?8 billion come from, where will it come from? Know | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
you were saying that perhaps you might increase taxes, ticking off | :25:45. | :25:47. | |
the lock, so people are right to be suspicious. But you will not tell us | :25:48. | :25:54. | |
where the ?8 billion will come from. Andrew, a strong economy is key to | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
delivering more NHS money. That does not tell us where the money is | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
coming from. The biggest risk to a strong economy would be a bad | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
Brexit, which Jeremy Corbyn would deliver. And we have a record of | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
putting more money into the NHS. I think that past performance we can | :26:12. | :26:14. | |
take forward. Thank you for joining us. | :26:15. | :26:16. | |
So, the Conservatives have been taking a bit of flak | :26:17. | :26:18. | |
But Conservative big guns have been out and about this morning taking | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
Here's Boris Johnson on ITV's Peston programme earlier today: | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
What we're trying to do is to address what I think | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
everybody, all serious demographers acknowledge will be the massive | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
problem of the cost of social care long-term. | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
This is a responsible, grown-up, conservative approach, | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
trying to deal with a long-term problem in a way that is equitable, | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
allows people to pass on a very substantial sum, | :26:44. | :26:46. | |
still, to their kids, and takes away the fear | :26:47. | :26:48. | |
Joining me now from Liverpool is Labour's Shadow Chief Secretary | :26:49. | :26:54. | |
Petered out, welcome to the programme. Let's start with social | :26:55. | :27:06. | |
care. The Tories are saying that if you have ?100,000 or more in assets, | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
you should pay for your own social care. What is wrong with that? Well, | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
I think the issue at the end of the day is the question of fairness. Is | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
it fair? And what we're trying to do is to get to a situation where we | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
have, for example, the Dilnot report, which identified that you | :27:25. | :27:30. | |
actually have cap on your spending on social care. We are trying to get | :27:31. | :27:33. | |
to a position where it is a reasonable and fair approach to | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
expenditure. But you will know that a lot of people, particularly in the | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
south of country, London and the south-east, and the adjacent areas | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
around it, they have benefited from huge house price inflation. They | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
have seen their homes go up in value, if and when they sell, they | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
are not taxed on that increase. Why should these people not pay for | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
their own social care if they have the assets to do so? They will be | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
paying for some of their social care but you cannot take social care and | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
health care separately. It has to be an integrated approach. So for | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
example if you do have dementia, you're more likely to be in an | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
elderly person's home for longer and you most probably have been in care | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
for a longer period of time. On the other hand, you might have, if you | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
have had a stroke, there may be continuing care needs paid for by | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
the NHS. So at the end of the date it is trying to get a reasonable | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
balance and just to pluck a figure of ?100,000 out of thin air is not | :28:34. | :28:42. | |
sensible. You will have heard me say about David Gold that the house | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
prices in his area, about 450,000 or so, not quite that, and that people | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
may have to spend quite a lot of that on social care to get down to | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
?100,000. But in your area, the average house price is only | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
?149,000, so your people would not have to pay anything like as much | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
before they hit the ?100,000 minimum. I hesitate to say that but | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
is that not almost a socialist approach to social care that if you | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
are in the affluent Home Counties with a big asset, you pay more, and | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
if you are in an area that is not so affluent and your house is not worth | :29:21. | :29:23. | |
very much, you pay a lot less. What is wrong with that principle? I | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
think the problem I am trying to get to is this issue about equity across | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
the piece. At the end of the day, what we want is a system whereby it | :29:33. | :29:38. | |
is capped at a particular level, and the Dilnot report, after much | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
examination, said we should have a cap on care costs at ?72,000. The | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
Conservatives decided to ditch that and come up with another policy | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
which by all accounts seems to be even more Draconian. At the end of | :29:51. | :29:54. | |
the day it is trying to get social care and an NHS care in a much more | :29:55. | :30:03. | |
fluid way. We had offered the Conservatives to have a bipartisan | :30:04. | :30:06. | |
approach to this. David just said that this is a long term. You do not | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
pick a figure out of thin air and use that as a long-term strategy. | :30:12. | :30:17. | |
The Conservatives are now saying they will increase health spending | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
over the next five years in real terms. You will increase health | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
spending. In what way is your approach to health spending better | :30:28. | :30:33. | |
than the Tories' now? We are contributing an extra 7.2 billion to | :30:34. | :30:39. | |
the NHS and social care over the next few years. But you just don't | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
put money into the NHS or social care. It has to be an integrated | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
approach to social and health care. What we've got is just more of the | :30:49. | :30:53. | |
same. What we don't want to do is just say, we ring-fenced an out for | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
here or there. What you have to do is try to get that... Let me ask you | :30:59. | :31:07. | |
again. In terms of the amount of resource that is going to be devoted | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
in the next five years, and resource does matter for the NHS, in what way | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
are your plans different now from the Conservative plans? The key is | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
how you use that resource. By just putting money in, you've got to say, | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
if we are going to put that money on, how do we use it? As somebody | :31:28. | :31:33. | |
who has worked in social care for 40 years, you have to have a different | :31:34. | :31:37. | |
approach to how you use that money. The money we are putting in, 7.7, | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
may be similar in cash terms to what the Tories claim they are putting | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
in, but it's not how much you put in per se, it is how you use it. You | :31:48. | :32:01. | |
are going to get rid of car parking charges in hospital, and you are | :32:02. | :32:03. | |
going to increase pay by taking the cap on pay off. So it doesn't | :32:04. | :32:06. | |
necessarily follow that the money, under your way of doing it, will | :32:07. | :32:09. | |
follow the front line. What you need in the NHS is a system that is | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
capable of dealing with the patience you have. What we have now is on at | :32:14. | :32:20. | |
five Asian of the NHS. Staff leaving, not being paid properly. So | :32:21. | :32:30. | |
pay and the NHS go hand in hand. Let's move onto another area of | :32:31. | :32:33. | |
policy where there is some confusion. Who speaks for the Labour | :32:34. | :32:39. | |
Party on nuclear weapons? Is it Emily Thornbury, or Nia Griffith, | :32:40. | :32:46. | |
defence spokesperson? The Labour manifesto. It is clear. We are | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
committed to the nuclear deterrent, and that is the definitive... Is it? | :32:51. | :33:01. | |
Emily Thornbury said that Trident could be scrapped in the defence | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
review you would have immediately after taking power. On LBC on Friday | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
night. She didn't, actually. I listened to that. What she actually | :33:11. | :33:16. | |
said is, as part of a Labour government coming in, a new | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
government, there is always a defence review. But not the concept | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
of Trident in its substance. She said there would be a review in | :33:26. | :33:32. | |
terms of, and this is in our manifesto. When you reduce | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
something, you review how it is operated. The review could scrap | :33:37. | :33:42. | |
Trident. It won't scrap Trident. The review is in the context of how you | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
protect it from cyber attacks. This will issue was seized upon that she | :33:48. | :33:53. | |
was saying that we would have another review of Trident or Labour | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
would ditch it. That is nonsense. You will have seen some reports that | :33:59. | :34:05. | |
MI5 opened a file on Jeremy Corbyn in the early 90s because of his | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
links to Irish republicanism. This has caused some people, his links to | :34:10. | :34:17. | |
the IRA and Sinn Fein, it has caused some concern. Could you just listen | :34:18. | :34:24. | |
to this clip and react. Do you condemn what the IRA did? I condemn | :34:25. | :34:31. | |
all bombing. But do you condemn what the IRA did? I condemn what was done | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
with the British Army as well as both sides as well. What happened in | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
Derry in 1972 was pretty devastating as well. Do you distinguish between | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
state forces, what the British Army did and the IRA? Well, in a sense, | :34:47. | :34:53. | |
the treatment of IRA prisoners which made them into virtual political | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
prisoners suggested that the British government and the state saw some | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
kind of almost equivalent in it. My point is that the whole violence if | :35:04. | :35:10. | |
you was terrible, was appalling, and came out of a process that had been | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
allowed to fester in Northern Ireland for a very long time. That | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
was from about two years ago. Can you explain why the Leader of the | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
Labour Party, Her Majesty 's opposition, the man who would be our | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
next Prime Minister, finds it so hard to condemn IRA arming? I think | :35:31. | :35:36. | |
it has to be within the context that Jeremy Corbyn for many years trying | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
to move the peace protest... Process along. So why wouldn't you condemn | :35:41. | :35:49. | |
IRA bombing? Again, that was an issue, a traumatic event in Irish - | :35:50. | :35:56. | |
British relations that went on for 30 years. It is a complicated | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
matter. Bombing is not that complicated. If you are a man of | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
peace, surely you would condemn the bomb and the bullet? Let me say | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
this, I condemn the bomb and the bullet. Why can't your leader? You | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
would have to ask Jeremy Corbyn, but that is in the context of what he | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
was trying to do over a 25 year period to move the priest process | :36:23. | :36:23. | |
along. Thank you for joining us. It's just gone 11.35, | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. In the East Midlands... | :36:28. | :36:29. | |
in Scotland and Wales. The election hits top gear | :36:30. | :36:43. | |
as the parties target those vital I think with Jeremy Corbyn, all we | :36:44. | :36:45. | |
will get is a government of chaos. I actually think the nasty party | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
is back, and I think that is the revelation of this week, | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
the revelation of the And the frustrations of a young | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
generation of black voters who want their voices heard | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
in politics. There is a causal effect | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
between the lack of black politicians and the lack | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
of engagement of young They are looking to the political | :37:09. | :37:10. | |
system and they cannot see anybody like them, | :37:11. | :37:13. | |
so how can we expect them to involve My guests this week, | :37:14. | :37:16. | |
Leon Spence is a Conservative Until very recently he was a Labour | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
councillor, but left the party in protest over the direction | :37:22. | :37:27. | |
it was taking under Jeremy Corbyn. And Professor Cecile Wright | :37:28. | :37:29. | |
is a Labour activist and founder of the Black Labour Network, | :37:30. | :37:32. | |
and a strong supporter We have a letter here that was sent | :37:33. | :37:52. | |
to postal voters in Gedling, but on this letter, there is no mention of | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
Conservative. It is from right operable, Theresa May, by Minister. | :37:59. | :38:01. | |
It does not mention conservatives. It does not mention conservatives. | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
Is this a toxic brand or something? I do not think so. What it is is a | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
measure of how popular the Prime Minister is at the moment. Not how | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
popular the party is? I think we have seen local election results | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
recently throughout the country for recently throughout the country for | :38:20. | :38:24. | |
the Conservative Party, but you go out knocking on doors, it certainly | :38:25. | :38:27. | |
ain't huge swathes of the country, and you see Theresa May is popular. | :38:28. | :38:34. | |
An example, I will quote my mother who has been a Labour voter all her | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
life, and she says Theresa May is somebody that she likes, she trusts. | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
What about the weekend wobble? You have seen the polls. It is a long | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
election campaign, and when you see the polling at this period of time, | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
you see a narrowing of the gap in polling as we approach for weeks | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
out. I personally would suggest that you will see an increase as we move | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
Conservatives. You think this move Conservatives. You think this move | :39:02. | :39:11. | |
is happening across the board? I would like to cooperate the | :39:12. | :39:20. | |
receiving of male with the not mincing... I have directed mail from | :39:21. | :39:27. | |
Theresa May and had I not known she was leader of the Conservative | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
Party, I would not known in this. I would say that what I'm getting on | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
the ground, particularly in Derby is that people are impressed by the | :39:35. | :39:42. | |
Labour Party's manifesto, impressed by the policies that are in there, | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
impressed by the fact that we are focusing on providing policies that | :39:48. | :39:54. | |
are there for the many and not the few. So I am seeing a shift, a | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
positive shift to the Labour Party. We will talk more about this later. | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
The pace of the election moved up a gear this week as the main parties | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
And with our region containing some vital marginal seats, | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
top politicians were despatched here to rustle up votes. | :40:13. | :40:14. | |
But what do those manifestos have to offer us here | :40:15. | :40:16. | |
Our political editor Tony Roe's been taking a closer look. | :40:17. | :40:24. | |
On the campaign trail for a fourth week in weather fair and foul. | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
Really foul for those Labour supporters in Derby, | :40:29. | :40:34. | |
but they were upbeat. Confident the polls do them now, | :40:35. | :40:36. | |
confident manifesto commitments will appeal. | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
The renationalisation of the railways, where you then | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
have a long-term investment programme in the railway industry. | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
Places like Derby, not only will we increase their connectivity, | :40:48. | :40:50. | |
but in addition to that, Bombardier will be one | :40:51. | :40:53. | |
of the companies that will be providing a lot of the railway stock | :40:54. | :40:56. | |
that we will need in that new system. | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
So, for Derby, I think, this manifesto, you could almost have | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
On the afternoon of his party's manifesto launch, | :41:04. | :41:09. | |
the Conservative Party chairman was in Labour marginal Gedling | :41:10. | :41:11. | |
We have got to find ways to spend money responsibly, | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
and it is no good promising things if you can't do it... | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
There is no specific mention of the electrification | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
of Midland Mainline in the Tory manifesto this time, but a more | :41:25. | :41:27. | |
general commitment to work through an existing programme. | :41:28. | :41:30. | |
We are seeing vast investment in the East Midlands, | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
so if we look at what has happened with the Nottingham station, | :41:36. | :41:38. | |
the refurbishment of the Nottingham station, | :41:39. | :41:39. | |
the work that is going to take place as far as Derby | :41:40. | :41:42. | |
station is concerned, with the reconfiguration | :41:43. | :41:44. | |
of the station, those are all very important things. | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
It has been said that part of the Conservative manifesto has | :41:50. | :41:52. | |
shifted so far to the middle ground that some of the ideas in it | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
have come from this man, pounding the streets | :41:57. | :41:57. | |
I think the real thing is always better than the invitation, | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
and I think that it is true that Theresa May has taken | :42:03. | :42:04. | |
a few of the ideas I had, but she has not copied them properly | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
I think the mask has slipped this week, because I think when people | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
see what the Tories are proposing for pensions, taking | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
the winter fuel allowance from 10 million of our pensioners, | :42:16. | :42:18. | |
Reducing the amount of care people get in their own homes, | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
a tax on dementia, I actually think the nasty party is back, | :42:24. | :42:26. | |
and I think that is the revelation of this week, the revelation | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
What this manifesto is, it is addressing the problems | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
for the United Kingdom in today's society. | :42:36. | :42:37. | |
It is also talking about the very important issue of our leaving | :42:38. | :42:41. | |
the European Union and making sure that Theresa May gets a strong | :42:42. | :42:44. | |
mandate, because I think that is very important. | :42:45. | :42:46. | |
In just over three weeks, there will be one of two people | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
It will either be Theresa May, or it will be Jeremy Corbyn. | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
I think with Jeremy Corbyn, all we will get is a Government of chaos. | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
Manifestos have given all parties something to attack in the last | :42:59. | :43:01. | |
Some politicians have even admitted they don't either. | :43:02. | :43:08. | |
What's going to stick are the headlines, the slogans, | :43:09. | :43:11. | |
but this time, we won't have anything carved in stone, | :43:12. | :43:14. | |
Well, last week we heard from the Lib Dems and the Green | :43:15. | :43:24. | |
Party in the studio, and we'll be hearing | :43:25. | :43:26. | |
from all of the parties in the run up to the election. | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
Margot Parker is an MEP for the party and she's with us now. | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
Margot Parker, where's your manifesto? | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
It is going to be delivered on Wednesday this week, so just a | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
couple of days. Are you going to tell us what is in it? Of course | :43:46. | :43:58. | |
not. Sandy Berger? Yes yes, but not indifference to France. Anything | :43:59. | :44:05. | |
that helps society be more cohesive. That is our angle. We are hearing | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
calls for an English parliament. Will that strike a chord in the East | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
Midlands? I think it might. I think people are fed up with the SNP in | :44:15. | :44:20. | |
Scotland and controlling Westminster with their questions instead of | :44:21. | :44:22. | |
getting on with the business, so I think people are fed up and saying, | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
well, let's have an English parliament that actually serves the | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
people of England. When he manifesto comes out, do expect a ride in the | :44:32. | :44:35. | |
opinion polls? At the moment you are pretty low down. I am hopeful, | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
absolutely. It is interesting to see the Tory party have taken many | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
policies from the 2050 manifesto of hours, so we have had some good | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
influence and that is to be applauded. | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
Leon Spence, John McDonnell in Tony's report saying | :44:56. | :44:57. | |
that the Labour manifesto could have been written for Derby, | :44:58. | :45:01. | |
which is very kind of them, but what he means is there'll be | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
investment in rail projects which will be good for the city, | :45:06. | :45:07. | |
This is a manifesto that could do well in parts of East Midlands. Ukip | :45:08. | :45:17. | |
have done a remarkable job in delivering their purpose. We are a | :45:18. | :45:25. | |
long-term party, my friend. They are very much achieving Brexit. We are | :45:26. | :45:31. | |
pretty critical pathway of delivering a strong, stable Brexit | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
for the Government. You have subsumed Ukip's policies. I do not | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
think so, but we have taken a lot of their purpose, which is to take a | :45:41. | :45:47. | |
stable Brexit/ that is rubbish. We have been made for the long haul. We | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
have had built up slowly over the years. Brexit was very important to | :45:53. | :45:57. | |
us to get something deliberate, it would free the country and allow us | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
to prosper and grow. But that will continue. Many people will be voting | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
Ukip. When they see our manifesto, they will more so. Cecile? Ukip was | :46:07. | :46:14. | |
always a single issue party and has now served its purpose. Now let's | :46:15. | :46:22. | |
focus on domestic policy. Our team is reporting that the Conservative | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
manifesto has not gone down well, particularly with older people. | :46:27. | :46:29. | |
Obviously all lot of talk this weekend is about social care and new | :46:30. | :46:35. | |
arrangements for homeowners that need care in old age. Do think | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
Labour will do well out of this? I hope so. Since 2010, the | :46:40. | :46:46. | |
Conservative coalition, then the Conservative Party have cut social | :46:47. | :46:52. | |
care by ?4.6 billion. So the situation we have with the crisis in | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
social care is because of the major cuts in this area, the Labour | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
manifesto has clearly stated how we will ensure that there is social | :47:04. | :47:10. | |
care, to ensure our elderly population live in dignity. So our | :47:11. | :47:16. | |
policy is not about dividing generations, not about pitting | :47:17. | :47:19. | |
beyond against the old and taking from the old and expecting them, | :47:20. | :47:25. | |
during a vulnerable time in their lives, to pay up. Does it not come | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
down to as Patrick McLoughlin said, how people see as a leader? You | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
would argue that Labour has a problem with Corbyn, whereas the | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
opposite may be the case. One of the things you have heard many times on | :47:40. | :47:45. | |
the doorstep is that we expect politicians to be more honest. I | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
think what we have seen with Theresa May in this manifesto is saying | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
there are challenges. We have a five-year period of time to deliver | :47:54. | :47:56. | |
Brexit, deliver some of the huge issues around social care, and we | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
need politicians to be honest. When it comes to things like the winter | :48:02. | :48:04. | |
fuel allowance, not a popular policy to remove... Possibly very damaging. | :48:05. | :48:12. | |
It is a nonsense to say in Scotland that they will be void of this. But | :48:13. | :48:18. | |
and only England will be put in this direction for that I mean you cannot | :48:19. | :48:21. | |
say it is colder in Scotland it was stupid. At least then time, lowering | :48:22. | :48:33. | |
Corporation tax, white is it's the Tory manifesto to do this? This is a | :48:34. | :48:42. | |
risky strategy. This, we need to grasp the nettle, people will suffer | :48:43. | :48:44. | |
all, that for a good... We know all, that for a good... We know | :48:45. | :48:51. | |
there are issues. Between 2014 and 2024, we know the number of | :48:52. | :48:54. | |
85-year-old is going to have increased by one third. I think we | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
do not know what is going to be happening in the next year, so we | :49:00. | :49:03. | |
need a strong, stable Brexit that is going to deliver the very best | :49:04. | :49:07. | |
possible. Not a coalition of chaos of all these minor Pollard bat | :49:08. | :49:14. | |
parties. You got hammered in the local elections, what can you do as | :49:15. | :49:21. | |
a party? But what can you do in the next 2.5 weeks to increase your | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
share of the vote? Get out there, do what we are doing. Once we announce | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
our manifesto, there are some good points in there, and from my own | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
field which is about quality, gender equality, I am hopeful that we will | :49:36. | :49:38. | |
see some sensible issues being discussed and hopefully that will | :49:39. | :49:43. | |
raise is in the polls. We are certainly working very hard. We have | :49:44. | :49:46. | |
great one in Leicestershire. Your great one in Leicestershire. Your | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
manifesto will be costed like the other parties? It will be. The | :49:51. | :49:56. | |
Labour Party manifesto has been costed. It is the Conservative Party | :49:57. | :50:02. | |
won that has not been costed. I think the issue that we have is | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
historically manifestos have not been costed because we have been | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
looking at five-year terms. It was Ken Clarke who said he'd is not even | :50:12. | :50:14. | |
never be costed. But you said never be costed. But you said | :50:15. | :50:21. | |
Theresa is honest and it Tory party is honest, so why are they not | :50:22. | :50:24. | |
costing the manifesto, why do they not cost what it is they are going | :50:25. | :50:32. | |
to do? What we have in any manifesto is aspirations. We do not know the | :50:33. | :50:38. | |
costs. Aspirations? All manifestos are aspirations? Thank you, mango, | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
for talking to us today. Next, is it time to bring | :50:44. | :50:45. | |
in quotas to make sure there are more politicians | :50:46. | :50:48. | |
from our black communities? In the East Midlands | :50:49. | :50:49. | |
there are no black MPs, One student at Nottingham | :50:50. | :50:52. | |
Trent University has been researching the problem | :50:53. | :50:55. | |
and the possible solutions. I've just finished my | :50:56. | :50:57. | |
third year undergraduate degree at Nottingham Trent | :50:58. | :51:04. | |
University studying politics and international relations, | :51:05. | :51:06. | |
and I took a closer look into how the lack | :51:07. | :51:08. | |
of Afro-Caribbean representation | :51:09. | :51:09. | |
affects young Afro-Caribbean The lack of black | :51:10. | :51:11. | |
politicians is having There are fewer black | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
politicians, fewer black people involving themselves within politics | :51:16. | :51:18. | |
and a general discontent The results from the last | :51:19. | :51:20. | |
election are staggering. It was found that 18% | :51:21. | :51:25. | |
of Afro-Caribbeans were not registered to vote, compared | :51:26. | :51:28. | |
with 7% of white people. From my own research, | :51:29. | :51:31. | |
it was found that 74% of people I interviewed | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
stated representation their decision to participate | :51:35. | :51:36. | |
within politics. This isn't just a matter | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
for the elections. My generation have been | :51:42. | :51:44. | |
talking about this for a Any issues that I have | :51:45. | :51:47. | |
regarding anything in my community, it's the older | :51:48. | :51:50. | |
generation of white gentlemen, privileged background that I have | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
to communicate with. So there is a lack of understanding | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
across the consensus of the issues that are really involved | :52:00. | :52:03. | |
in our community. Even the Westminster election | :52:04. | :52:09. | |
format, you find that not many of the black community | :52:10. | :52:15. | |
do participate in voting, | :52:16. | :52:16. | |
let alone wanting to take part in politics | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
So yeah, I just think it starts with education. | :52:22. | :52:27. | |
When you are a young age, obviously, you are | :52:28. | :52:30. | |
always watching TV, always looking up, | :52:31. | :52:31. | |
and if someone looks at you, for | :52:32. | :52:33. | |
example, if they have the same colour as your skin, you are | :52:34. | :52:36. | |
automatically you almost think you are kind of like them. | :52:37. | :52:38. | |
And obviously if you don't see anyone in Parliament or in | :52:39. | :52:41. | |
politics like that, who looks like you, then you kind of, you | :52:42. | :52:43. | |
distinguish yourself and you say, "Oh, that can't | :52:44. | :52:45. | |
One way that we can combat this is by having an | :52:46. | :52:50. | |
ethnic quota within Parliament so ethnic minorities have a specific | :52:51. | :52:53. | |
Political education needs to be on the agenda also, so young people | :52:54. | :52:57. | |
know who represents them, why they are represented and how they | :52:58. | :53:00. | |
Without this, we will have a generation of people | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
Cecile Wright, I know you have done a lot of work on this, and it is | :53:06. | :53:18. | |
almost the invisibility of black politicians. Why is that? It is a | :53:19. | :53:24. | |
huge issue. It is a issue that all parties should be concerned about. | :53:25. | :53:29. | |
The Labour Party is one of the most diverse parties in terms of | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
representation, at Parliamentary level and local council level. | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
Indeed, the party, within the party, we have policy to ensure this | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
diversity. I think with the snap election, somehow those policies | :53:44. | :53:46. | |
have been undermined in terms of the implementation. We have on the | :53:47. | :53:53. | |
National laxatives, which is the governing body for the party, a | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
representative for black and minority communities. The efficacy | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
of that role in the sense that that position is held by an MP. One needs | :54:03. | :54:08. | |
to be asking the question why they would hold a position on the | :54:09. | :54:15. | |
executive. The issue is perhaps the stakeholders that are there to | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
ensure there is diversity in some selection, it is not being | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
effectively undertaken are implemented. Cecile has that Labour | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
does wellingtons of diversity. Do think the Tory party has work to do | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
on it? I think all do. We are in a position now where if the polls are | :54:34. | :54:38. | |
to be believed, we could end up with more Conservative MPs than Labour | :54:39. | :54:44. | |
will do, than is eight great move forwards. We have seen a molester of | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
the three constituencies in Leicester, two of the constituencies | :54:50. | :54:57. | |
are being fought. Two young candidates are taking on very | :54:58. | :55:01. | |
difficulties to wing, but have a huge future in the party. Only 6% of | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
MPs from any ethnic background at the moment. In local councils, 4% at | :55:08. | :55:16. | |
background. Only 17% -- 17% from a background. Only 17% -- 17% from a | :55:17. | :55:27. | |
motor background registered to vote. If you do not see yourself are | :55:28. | :55:30. | |
presented in a political establishment. That is sending a | :55:31. | :55:36. | |
message. That is worrying in the East Midlands because that is what | :55:37. | :55:39. | |
we are focusing on. Across the East Midlands, we do not have a single | :55:40. | :55:44. | |
black politician, of African Caribbean background, and when you | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
think how many of the Parliamentary seats across East Midlands are | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
located in areas where there are high ethnic minority communities | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
constituencies, that is worrying. I think this should be a concern for | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
all parties, and particularly the major parties. It is a big social | :56:05. | :56:10. | |
issues sop to be better for society. Is it time for quotas? No, | :56:11. | :56:19. | |
absolutely not. Yesterday I went to the Leicester Afro-Caribbean Centre | :56:20. | :56:22. | |
where I spent most Saturday mornings, and I spoke to many people | :56:23. | :56:27. | |
in that centre and they are not politically disengaged. I'm sure | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
Cecile would say that they are absolutely fascinated and involved | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
in the issues that affect their lives. Exit, work, making sure they | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
have a decent life. I think there is a need for a structure which will | :56:40. | :56:45. | |
reverse the crisis, and I think it is a crisis that we face, with | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
respect to women and representations through the short lists... Introduce | :56:51. | :56:57. | |
that as well. I think we need all-black short lists. Thank you | :56:58. | :56:58. | |
very much indeed. With three weeks to go | :56:59. | :57:00. | |
to the election, we'll be taking a closer look at some | :57:01. | :57:02. | |
of our most important In the coming weeks we'll be | :57:03. | :57:05. | |
focusing on some of the election hotspots in the East Midlands | :57:06. | :57:08. | |
and hearing from all of the candidates, beginning | :57:09. | :57:11. | |
with the marginal seat Rob Pittam reports now | :57:12. | :57:12. | |
on the politicians looking There is a reason the big names have | :57:13. | :57:16. | |
been hitting Gedling. It is a Midlands marginal | :57:17. | :57:27. | |
that is a top target. Labour's Vernon Coaker has held | :57:28. | :57:29. | |
the seat for 20 years, winning with a majority of just | :57:30. | :57:32. | |
under 3000 in 2015. He is standing again, | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
but he will be pushed hard Five candidates are | :57:37. | :57:39. | |
standing here in total. I have taken up individual cases, | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
campaigned on local issues. And the coice here will be | :57:44. | :57:53. | |
that record of 20 years as against a Tory opportunist, | :57:54. | :57:56. | |
somebody who has just come We are actually going to put | :57:57. | :57:58. | |
more money into the NHS, We are looking after our | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
long-term care for the elderly. And I really think that people | :58:04. | :58:11. | |
are understanding that they do not want to risk the vote for anybody | :58:12. | :58:14. | |
else when they know the economy and our country is going | :58:15. | :58:17. | |
in the right direction. We are offering people in Gedling | :58:18. | :58:19. | |
a chance which could be their last chance to vote against Corbyn | :58:20. | :58:26. | |
and May's disastrous hard Brexit. A vote for the Liberal Democrats is | :58:27. | :58:28. | |
a vote to change Britain's future. Do not crash out of the single | :58:29. | :58:31. | |
market without a deal. We are your insurance policy | :58:32. | :58:35. | |
to guarantee a full Brexit and hold We will have sensible | :58:36. | :58:38. | |
controls on immigration, look for an English Parliament, | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
proportional representation We will protect the environment, | :58:43. | :58:44. | |
we will invest in clean, green energy, we will roll back | :58:45. | :58:51. | |
privatisation on the NHS, Young people, education should be | :58:52. | :58:54. | |
free, and protecting human rights, you will get the final | :58:55. | :59:01. | |
vote on Brexit. election whereever you are, | :59:02. | :59:11. | |
the deadline for registering And you can see a full list | :59:12. | :59:13. | |
of candidates standing in every seat in the country on the BBC's | :59:14. | :59:21. | |
online news pages. Just look for | :59:22. | :59:23. | |
bbc.co.uk/news/elections. That's it for now | :59:24. | :59:27. | |
from the East Midlands. My thanks to my guests, | :59:28. | :59:29. | |
Leon Spence and Cecile Wright. Time now to hand you | :59:30. | :59:32. | |
back to Andrew Neil. cancelled. And rent to own is still | :59:33. | :59:34. | |
our policy. Thank you very much, Tom Brake. Andrew, back to you. | :59:35. | :59:41. | |
So, two and half weeks to go till polling day, | :59:42. | :59:44. | |
let's take stock of the campaign so far and look ahead | :59:45. | :59:46. | |
Sam, Isabel and Steve are with me again. | :59:47. | :59:55. | |
Sam, Mrs May had made a great thing about the just about managing. Not | :59:56. | :00:03. | |
the poorest of the poor, but not really affluent people, who are | :00:04. | :00:09. | |
maybe OK but it's a bit of a struggle. What is in the manifesto | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
for them? There is something about the high profile items in the | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
manifesto. She said she wants to help those just above the poorest | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
level. But if you look at things like the winter fuel allowance, | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
which is going to be given only to the poorest. If you look at free | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
school meals for infants, those for the poorest are going to be kept, | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
but the rest will go. The social care plan, those who are renting or | :00:37. | :00:43. | |
in properties worth up to ?90,000, they are going to be treated, but | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
those in properties worth above that, 250,000, for example, will | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
have to pay. Which leads to the question - what is being done for | :00:55. | :01:01. | |
the just about managings? There is something, the personal allowance | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
that David Cameron promised in 2015, that they are not making a big deal | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
of that, because they cannot say by how much. So you are looking in tax | :01:10. | :01:15. | |
rises on the just about managings. Where will the tax rises come from. | :01:16. | :01:23. | |
We do not know, that there is the 40 million pounds gap for the Tories to | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
reach what they are pledging in their manifesto. We do not know how | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
that is going to be made up, more tax, or more borrowing? So that is | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
why the questions of the implications of removing the tax | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
lock are so potentially difficult for Tory MPs. The Labour manifesto | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
gives figures for the cost of certain policies and where the | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
revenue will come from. You can argue about the figures, but at | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
least we have the figures. The Tory manifesto is opaque on these | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
matters. That applies to both the manifestos. Looking at the Labour | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
manifesto on the way here this morning, when you look at the | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
section on care for the elderly, they simply say, there are various | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
ways in which the money for this can be raised. They are specific on | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
other things. They are, and we heard John McDonnell this morning being | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
very on that, and saying there is not a single ? in Tory manifesto. I | :02:26. | :02:34. | |
have only got to page 66. It is quite broad brush and they are very | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
open to challenge. For example, on the detail of a number of their | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
flagship things. There is no detail on their immigration policy. They | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
reiterate the ambition, but not how they are going to do that, without a | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
massive increase in resource for Borders officials. We are at a time | :02:54. | :03:01. | |
where average wages are lagging behind prices. And in work benefits | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
remain frozen. I would have thought that the just-about-managings are | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
people who are in work but they need some in work benefits to make life | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
tolerable and be able to pay bills. Doesn't she has to do more for them? | :03:16. | :03:24. | |
Maybe, but this whole manifesto was her inner circle saying, right, this | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
is our chance to express our... It partly reads like a sort of | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
philosophical essay at times. About the challenges, individualism | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
against collectivism. Some of it reads quite well and is quite | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
interesting, but in terms of its detail, Labour would never get away | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
with it. They wouldn't be allowed to be so vague about where taxes are | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
going to rise. We know there are going to be tax rises after the | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
election, but we don't know where they will be. 100%, there will be | :04:01. | :04:08. | |
tax rises. We know that they wanted a tax rise in the last budget, but | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
they couldn't get it through because of the 2015 manifesto. Labour do | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
offer a lot more detail. People could disagree with it, but there is | :04:18. | :04:24. | |
a lot more detail. More to get your teeth into. About capital gains tax | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
and the rises for better owners and so on. The SNP manifesto comes out | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
this week, and the Greens and Sinn Fein. We think Ukip as well. There | :04:35. | :04:41. | |
are more manifestos to come. The Lib Dems have already brought theirs | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
out. Isn't the Liberal Democrat campaign in trouble? It doesn't seem | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
to be doing particular the well in the polls, or at the local elections | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
a few weeks ago. The Liberal Democrats are trying to fish in | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
quite a small pool for votes. They are looking to get votes from those | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
remainers who want to reverse the result, in effect. Tim Farron is | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
promising a second referendum on the deal at the end of the negotiation | :05:12. | :05:19. | |
process. And that is a hard sell. So those voting for remain on June 23 | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
are not low hanging fruit by any means? Polls suggesting that half of | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
those want to reverse the result, so that is a feeling of about 20% on | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
the Lib Dems, and they are getting slightly less than half at the | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
moment, but there are not a huge amount of votes for them to get on | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
that strategy. It doesn't feel like Tim Farron and the Lib Dems have | :05:45. | :05:54. | |
promised enough. They are making a very serious case on cannabis use in | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
a nightclub, but the optics of what they are discussing doesn't make | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
them look like an anchor in a future coalition government that they would | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
need to be. I wonder if we are seeing the re-emergence of the | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
2-party system? And it is not the same two parties. In Scotland, the | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
dynamics of this election seemed to be the Nationalists against the | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
Conservatives. In England, if you look at what has happened to be Ukip | :06:19. | :06:32. | |
vote, and what Sam was saying about the Lib Dems are struggling a bit to | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
get some traction, it is overwhelmingly Labour and the | :06:37. | :06:38. | |
Conservatives. A different 2-party system from Scotland, but a 2-party | :06:39. | :06:40. | |
system. There are a number of different election is going on in | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
parallel. In Scotland it is about whether you are unionist or not. | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
Here, we have the collapse of the Ukip vote, which looks as though it | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
is being redistributed in the Tories' favour. This is a unique | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
election, and will not necessarily set the trend for elections to come. | :06:59. | :07:05. | |
In the Tory manifesto, I spotted the fact that the fixed term Parliament | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
act is going to be scrapped. That got almost no coverage! It turned | :07:10. | :07:17. | |
out to be academic anyway, that it tells you something about how | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
Theresa May is feeling, and she wants the control to call an | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
election whenever it suits her. Re-emergence of the 2-party system, | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
for this election or beyond? For this election, yes, but it shows the | :07:31. | :07:39. | |
sort of robust strength of parties and their fragility. In other words, | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
the Lib Dems haven't really recovered from the losses in the | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
last general election, and are therefore not really seen as a | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
robust vehicle to deliver Remain. If they were, they might be doing | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
better. The Labour Party hasn't recovered in Scotland, and yet, if | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
you look at the basic divide in England and Scotland and you see two | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
parties battling it out, it is very, very hard for the smaller parties to | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
break through and last. Many appear briefly on the political stage and | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
then disappear again. The election had the ostensible goal of Brexit, | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
but we haven't heard much about it in the campaign. Perhaps the Tories | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
want to get back onto that. David Davis sounding quite tough this | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
morning, the Brexit minister, saying there is no chance we will talk | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
about 100 billion. And we have to have power in the negotiations on | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
the free trade deal or what ever it is. I think they are keen to get the | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
subject of the manifesto at this point, because it has not started | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
too well. There is an irony that Theresa May ostensibly called the | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
election because she needed a stronger hand in the Brexit | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
negotiations, and there was an opportunity for the Lib Dems, with | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
their unique offer of being the party that is absolutely against the | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
outcome of the referendum, and offering another chance. There | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
hasn't been much airtime on that particular pledge, because instead, | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
this election has segued into being all about leadership. Theresa May's | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
leadership, and looking again at the Tory manifesto, I was struck that | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
she was saying that this is my plan for the future, not ABBA plan. Even | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
when talking about social care, he manages to work in a bit about | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
Theresa May and Brexit. And Boris Johnson this morning, an interview | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
he gave on another political programme this morning, it was | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
extraordinarily sycophantic for him. Isn't Theresa May wonderful. There | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
is a man trying to secure his job in the Foreign Office! Will he succeed? | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
I think she will leave him. Better in the tent than out. What did you | :10:03. | :10:10. | |
make of David Davis' remarks? He was basically saying, we will walk away | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
from the negotiating table if the Europeans slam a bill for 100 | :10:16. | :10:23. | |
billion euros. The point is that the Europeans will not slam a bill for | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
100 billion euros on the negotiating table. That is the gross figure. | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
There are all sorts of things that need to be taken into account. I | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
imagine they will ask for something around the 50 or ?60 billion mark. | :10:39. | :10:45. | |
It looks that they are trying to make it look like a concession when | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
they do make their demands in order to soften the ground for what is | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
going to happen just two weeks after general election day. He makes a | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
reasonable point about having parallel talks. What they want to do | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
straightaway is deal with the bill, Northern Ireland and citizens | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
rights. All of those things are very complicated and interlinked issues, | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
which cannot be dealt with in isolation. I wouldn't be surprised | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
if we ended up with parallel talks, just to work out where we are going | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
with Northern Ireland and the border. Steve, you can't work out | :11:19. | :11:25. | |
what the Northern Ireland border will be, and EU citizens' writes | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
here, until you work out what our relationship with the EU in the | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
future will be. Indeed. The British government is under pressure to deal | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
quickly with the border issue in Ireland, but feel they can't do so | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
because when you have a tariff free arrangement outcome, or an | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
arrangement that is much more protectionist, and that will | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
determine partly the nature of the border. You cannot have a quick | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
agreement on that front without knowing the rest of the deal. I | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
think the negotiation will be complex. I am certain they want a | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
deal rather than none, because this is no deal thing is part of the | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
negotiation at this early stage. Sounding tough in the general | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
election campaign also works electorally. But after the election, | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
it will be a tough negotiation, beginning with this cost of Brexit. | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
My understanding is that the government feels it's got to make | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
the Europeans think they will not do a deal in order to get a deal. They | :12:28. | :12:35. | |
don't want no deal. Absolutely not. And I'm sure it plays into the | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
election. I'm sure the rhetoric will change when the election is over. | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
That's all for today, thank you to all my guests. | :12:45. | :12:46. | |
The Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two at 12.00 | :12:47. | :12:49. | |
And tomorrow evening I will be starting my series of interviews | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
with the party leaders - first up is the Prime | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
Minister, Theresa May, that's at 7pm on BBC One. | :12:56. | :12:57. | |
And I'll be back here at the same time on BBC One next Sunday. | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:01. | :13:49. | |
We've made great strides tackling HIV. | :13:50. | :13:51. | |
Imagine if we could create a movement | :13:52. | :13:54. |