14/05/2017 Sunday Politics East Midlands


Andrew Neil and Marie Ashby are joined by shadow business secretary Rebecca Long-Bailey, housing minister Brandon Lewis and American political pollster Frank Luntz.

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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.


Theresa May unveils plans to build many more affordable homes


in England, but with no price tag, timetable or building targets -


Labour takes aim at the City with what it calls a Robin Hood Tax


to fund public services, but will traders just


Don't look at the polls - Jeremy Corbyn, at least,


insists he can win this election - so which way will


And in the East Midlands: group in Leeds.


Will Jeremy Corbyn's policies prove a vote winner or vote loser


And are young voters getting a raw deal from politicians?


and here, what the parties are saying about tackling the air


pollution problem in London. And with me, our own scientifically


selected focus group of political pundits -


they're not so much undecided as clueless -


Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott They'll be tweeting


throughout the programme. So, we've got two new


policies this morning. Labour say they will introduce


a financial transaction tax if they win the general election


and what they're calling "the biggest crackdown on tax


avoidance in the country's history". The Conservatives say they'll work


with local authorities in England to build council houses


with the right to buy. Theresa May says the policy


"will help thousands of people get on the first rung


of the housing ladder". Steve, what do you make of them? I


have been conditioned after doing tax and spend debates in


pre-election periods for many decades to treat policy is not as


literal but as arguments. In other words if you look back to 2015 the


Tory plan to wipe out the deficit was never going to happen and yet it


framed and large event. In that sense the Robin Hood tax is a


sensible move for Labour to make at this point because it is part of a


narrative of reconfiguring taxation to be fair. Treating it as an


argument rather than something that would happen in day one of Labour


government is sensible. In terms of building houses Theresa May said


right from the beginning when she was in Number Ten that there is a


housing deficit in this country rather than the economic deficit


George Osborne was focusing on, and this is an example of trying to get


house-building going. It seems entirely sensible, not sure how it


works with right to buy but again as framing of a 90 minute it makes


sense. I disagree with Steve on one front which is how sensible Theresa


May's policy is on the housing announcement. I think more broadly


these two announcements have something in common which is that


over the next 24 hours both will probably unravel in different ways.


Ye of little faith! The Mayor of London has already said he doesn't


agree with this, and when people see the actual impact of what looks like


a populist tax will very potentially affect people's pensions, it might


become a lot less popular. On the Tory housing plans, I think it is


difficult to imagine how they are going to implement this huge, what


looks like a huge land and property grab. Through compulsory purchase


orders, which are not a simple instrument. They say they will


change the law but really the idea of paying people below the market


value for their assets is not something I can see sitting easily


with Tory backbenchers or the Tories in the House of Lords. Tom. Both


would appear superficially to be appealing to traditional left and


traditional right bases. What is more Tory than right to buy, then


councils sell on these houses, and Labour slapping a massive tax on the


city. The Tories' plan, I would say look a bit deeper and all of the


Tory narrative from the last six years which hasn't worked well is


talking about the private sector increasing supply in the market. Now


Mrs May is talking about the role for the state after all so this is


the shift creeping in. On the Labour transaction tax, one of the most


interesting things I heard in days was from Paul Mason, former BBC


correspondent, now a cog in Easter extreme. On Newsnight he said don't


worry about whether the Labour manifesto will add up, I'm promising


it will, the bigger Tory attack line should be what on earth will be the


macroeconomic effect of taking so much tax out of the system. Very


well, we shall see. At least we have some policies to talk about.


Now, on Tuesday Labour will launch its manifesto.


But we've already got a pretty good idea of what's in it -


that's because most of its contents were leaked to the media


Labour has a variety of spending pledges including an extra


?6 billion a year for the NHS, an additional ?8 billion for social


care over the lifetime of the next parliament,


as well as a ?250 billion in infrastructure over


The party will support the renewal of the Trident submarine system,


although any Prime Minister should be extremely cautious


about its use, and the party will hold a strategic defence


and security review immediately after the election.


In terms of immigration, Labour will seek "reasonable


management of migration", but it will not make "false


Elsewhere, university tuition fees will be abolished,


and the public sector pay cap, which limits pay rises


for public sector workers to 1%, will be scrapped.


The party also aims to renationalise the railways, the Royal Mail


and the National Grid, as well as creating at least one


A senior Labour backbencher described it to the Sunday Politics


as a manifesto for a leadership who don't "give a toss


about the wider public", and several other Labour candidates


told us they thought it had been deliberately


leaked by the leadership, with one suggesting


the leak was intended to "bounce the National Executive"


And we're joined now from Salford by the Shadow Business Secretary,


Welcome to the programme. The draft manifesto proposed to renationalise


the number of industry. You will wait for the franchises to run out


rather than buy them out at the moment so can you confirm the


railways will not be wholly nationalised until 2030, after three


Labour governments, and Jeremy Corbyn will be 80? I'm not going to


comment on leaks, you will just have to be patient and wait to see what


is in our manifesto. But you have already announced you will


nationalise the railways, so tell me about it. We have discussed taking


the franchises into public ownership as they expire, however the detail


will be set out in the manifesto so I'm not prepared to go into detail


until that policy is formally laid out on Tuesday. That doesn't sound


very hopeful but let's carry on. You will also nationalise the National


Grid, it has a market capitalisation of ?40 billion, why do you want to


nationalise that? Again, I'm not going to speculate on leaks, you


will just have to be patient. But you said you will nationalise the


National Grid so tell's Y. The leaks have suggested but you will just


have to wait and see what the final manifesto states on that one. So is


it a waste of time me asking you how you will pay for something that


costs 40 billion? Be patient, just couple of days to go, but what I


would say is there is growing pressure from the public to reform


the utilities sector. The Competition and Markets Authority


stated in 2015 that bill payers were paying over till debt -- ?2 billion


in excess of what they should be paying so there is a clear need for


reform. The bills we get are from the energy companies, you are not


going to nationalise them, you are going to nationalise the


distribution company and I wondered what is the case for nationalising


the distribution company? As I said, our full plans will be set out on


Tuesday. In relation to the big six energy companies, we know in recent


years they have been overcharging customers... There's no point in


answering questions I am not asking. I am asking what is the case for


nationalising the National Grid? There is a case for reforming the


energy sector as a whole and that looks at the activities of the big


six companies and it will look at other aspects too. You will have to


be patient and wait until Tuesday. What about the Royal Mail? Again,


you will have to wait until Tuesday. Why can't you just be honest with


the British voter? We know you are going to do this and you have a duty


to explain. I'm not even arguing whether it is right or wrong. The


Royal Mail was sold off and we know it was sold under value and British


taxpayers have a reason to feel aggrieved about that. There is a


long-term strategy that would ensure the Royal Mail was classified as a


key piece of infrastructure but the details of that will be set out in


our manifesto because we want to ensure businesses and households


ensure the best quality of service when it comes to their postal


providers. You plan to borrow an extra 25 billion per year, John


McDonnell has already announced this, on public investment, on top


of the around 50 billion already being planned for investment. You


will borrow it all so that means, if you can confirm, that many years


after the crash by 2021, Labour government would still be borrowing


75 billion a year. Is that correct? We have set out ?250 billion of


capital investment, and ?250 billion for a national investment bank. Our


financial and fiscal rules dictate we will leave the Government in a


state of less debt than we found it at the start of the parliament so we


won't increase the national debt at the end of our Parliamentary term.


How can you do that if by 2021 you will still be borrowing around 75


billion a year, which is more than we borrow at the moment? The 500


billion figure is set out over a period of ten years, it's a figure


that has been suggested by Peter Helm from Oxford University as a


figure that is necessary to bring us in line with other industrial


competitors. Similar figures have been suggested by groups such as the


CBI. By the way I have not included all 500 billion, just the 250


billion on public spending, not the extra money. You talk about the


fiscal rules. The draft manifesto said you will leave debt as a


proportion of trend GDP law at the end of each parliament, you have


just said a version of that. What is trend GDP? In clear terms we will


ensure the debt we acquire will be reduced by the end of the


parliament. We won't leave the Government finances in a worse state


than we found them. OK, but what is trend GDP? Our rule is we will


ensure public sector net debt is less than we found it when we came


to power in Government on June the 8th. But that is not what your draft


manifesto says. I'm not going to comment on leaks, you are just going


to have to wait until Tuesday to look at the fine detail and perhaps


we will have another chat then. You have published your plans for


corporation tax and you will increase it by a third and your


predictions assumed that will get an extra 20 billion a year by the end


of the parliament. But that assumes the companies don't change their


behaviour, that they move money around, they leave the country or


they generate smaller profits. Is that realistic? You are right to


make that point and you will see when we set out our policies and


costings in the manifesto that we haven't spent all of the tax take.


We have allowed for different differentials and potential changes


in market activity because that would be approved and direction to


take. But corporation tax is allowed to be cut in France and the United


States, it's only 12.5% in Dublin. Many companies based in Britain are


already wondering whether they should relocate because of Brexit,


if you increase this tax by a third couldn't that clinch it for a number


of them? No, we will still be one of the lowest corporation tax rate in


the G7. Let's look at what's important for business. Cutting


corporation tax in itself doesn't improve productivity, or business


investment and there's no suggestion cutting corporation tax in recent


years has achieved that. Businesses need an investment in tools in


things they need to thrive and prosper, they also need to reduce


the burden at the lower end of the tax scale, before we get to the


Prophet stage. One key example is business rates. We have made the


proposal to government to in -- exclude machinery so businesses can


invest and grow operations in the future but the Government refused.


Corporation tax has been cut since 2010. When it was 28% it brought in


?43 billion a year. Now it is down to 20%, it brought in ?55 billion a


year. By cutting it in the last year, it brought in 21% more, so


what is the problem? It might have brought in more money, but has it


increased business investment in the long term. It is not just about


cutting corporation tax, but it is on the ability of businesses to


thrive and prosper. Business investment in the UK is below are


industrial competitors. Wages are stagnating which doesn't indicate


businesses are not doing well. Let me get it right, you are arguing if


we increase business tax by a third, that will increase investment? I am


not saying that. You just did. Know I didn't, I said reducing business


tax isn't enough, you have to invest in the things businesses need to


thrive and prosper. You have also got to lessen the burden on


business. You have announced a financial transaction tax. Your own


labour Mayor of London said he has vowed to fight it. He said I do not


want a unilateral tax on business in our city, so why are you proceeding


with it? This isn't a new initiative, there is a growing


global pressure to make sure we have fairness in the financial sector.


Ordinary British people are paying for our banking crisis they didn't


cause. Another important point, stamp duty reserve tax was brought


in in the 1600 and there have been little reforms. The sector has


changed and we have do provide changes to the system for that


change. High-frequency trading where we have a state of affairs where a


lot of shares are traded on computers within milliseconds. We


need a tax system that keeps up with that. What happens if they move the


computers to another country? Emily Thornaby said this morning, other


countries had already introduced a financial transaction tax, what


other countries have done that? There are ten countries looking at


introducing a transaction tax. Which ones have done it so far? They will


be later announcing a final package, going through the finer detail at


the moment. But the European Commission tried to get this done in


2011 and it still hasn't happened in any of these countries. But you are


going to go ahead unilaterally and risk these businesses, which


generate a lot of money, moving to other jurisdictions. There is not a


significant risk of that happening. The stamp duty reserve tax is levied


at either where the person or company is domiciled or where the


instrument is issued rather than worth the transaction takes place.


This tax in itself is not enough to make people leave this country in


terms of financial services because there is more to keep these


businesses here in terms of the investment we are making, the


economy that Labour will build, in terms of productivity improvement we


will see. Thank you very much, Rebecca Long-Bailey.


And listening to that was the Home Office Minister, Brandon Lewis.


Over the years, you have got corporation tax by 20%, it is lower


than international standards, so why are so many global companies who


make money out of Great Britain, still not paying 20%? It is one of


the problems with the point Labour were making and Rebecca could not


answer, these companies can move around the world. One of the


important things is having a low tax economy but these businesses, it


encourages them to come at a rate they are prepared to pay. People may


say they are right, if they were paying 19, 20% incorporation tax.


But they are not. Google runs a multi-million pound corporation and


did not pay anywhere near 20%. There are companies that are trading


internationally and that is why we have to get this work done with our


partners around the world. Has there been an improvement? It is more than


they were paying before. Whether it is Google or any other company,


alongside them being here, apart from the tax they pay, it is the


people they employ. The deal was, if you cut the business tax, the


corporation tax on profits, we would get more companies coming here and


more companies paying their tax. It seems it doesn't matter how low, a


number of companies just pay a derisory amount and you haven't been


able to change that. As you outlined, the income taken from the


changing corporation tax has gone up. That is from established British


companies, not from these international companies. It is


because more companies are coming here and paying tax. That is a good


thing. There is always more to do and that is why we want to crack


down. In the last few weeks in the Finnish Parliament, Labour refused


to put to another ?8.7 billion of tax take we could have got by


cracking down further. You claim to have made great progress on cracking


down on people and companies to pay the tax they should. But the tax gap


is the difference between what HMRC takes in and what it should take in.


It has barely moved in five years, so where is the progress? He have


brought in 150 billion more where we have cracked down on those tax


schemes. The gap is still the same as it was five years ago. It's gone


from 6.8, 26.5. It has gone down. The Prime Minister and the


Chancellor said they want to continue work on to get more money


on these companies while still having a competitive rate to


encourage these companies. While big business and the wealthy continue to


prosper, the Office for Budget Responsibility tell us those on


average earnings in this country will be earning less in real terms


by 2021 than they did in 2008. How can that be fair? I don't see it


that way. I haven't seen the figures you have got. What I can say to you,


Andrew, we have made sure the minimum wage has gone up, the actual


income tax people pay has gone down. So in their pocket, real terms,


people have more money. You are the self-styled party of work. We keep


emphasising work. Under your government you can work for 13 years


and still not earn any more at the end of it, and you did at the start.


Where is the reward for effort in that? I have not seen those figures.


There are 2.8 million more people, more jobs in economy than there was.


1000 jobs every day and people are working and developing through their


careers. This is what I thought was odd in what Rebecca was saying,


investing in people is what the apprenticeship levy is about,


companies are investing their works force to take more opportunities


that there. We are talking about fairness, politicians talk about


hard-working people and we know the average earnings are no higher than


they were in 2008. We know the pay and bonuses of senior executives


have continued to grow and the Institute for Fiscal Studies has


shown 3 million of the poorest households will lose an average of


?2500 a year in the next Parliament, benefits frozen, further sanctions


kick in. 3 million of the poorest losing 2500. Under the Tories, one


law for the rich and another for the poor. It is quite wrong. First of


all, we have got to be fair to the taxpayer who is funding the welfare


and benefit system. Which is why the welfare was right. Get more people


in work and then it is important to get more people upscaling. As that


allowance rises, people have more of the money they earn in their pocket


to be able to use in the economy. People will be worse off. 2500,


among the poorest already. They will have more money in their pocket as


we increase the allowance before people pay tax. We have seen


millions of people coming out of tax altogether. The reason I ask these


questions, you and the Prime Minister go on and on about the just


about managing classes. I am talking about the just about managing and


below that. It is all talk, you haven't done anything for them. We


have made sure they have an increasing minimum wage, it has gone


up more under us than any other previous government. Their wages


will be still lower in real terms. Let me come on to this plan for


housing. We have announced a new plan to increase affordable housing,


social housing, some council housing and social housing built by the


associations. How much money is behind this? It is part of the 1.4


billion announced in the Autumn Statement. How many homes will you


get for 1.4 billion? That depends on the negotiations with local


authorities. It is local authorities, who know the area best.


I will not put a number on that. 1.4 billion, if you price the house at


100,000, which is very low, particularly for the South, back at


you 14,000 new homes. That is it. What we have seen before, how the


local government can leveraged to build thousands more homes. That is


what we want to see across the country. It is not just about the


money, for a lot of local authorities it is about the


expertise and knowledge on how to do this. That is why support from the


housing communities minister will help. What is the timescale, how


many more affordable homes will be built? I will not put a number on


it. You announced it today, so you cannot tell me how many more or what


the target is? It is a matter of working with the local authorities


who know what their local needs are, what land they have got available.


What we saw through the local elections with the Metro mayors,


they want to deliver in their areas, whether it is the West of England,


the north-east, Liverpool, Manchester and we want to work with


them. You have said variations of this for the past seven years and I


want some credibility. When you cannot tell us how much money, what


the target and timescale is, and this government, under which


affordable house building has fallen to a 24 year low. 1.2 million


families are on waiting lists for social housing to rent. That is your


record. Why should we believe a word you say? This is different to what


we have been doing over the last two years. We want to develop and have a


strong and stable economy that can sustain that 1.4 billion homes. This


is important. In 2010, we inherited the lowest level of house building,


75,000 new homes. That is about 189,000 over the last four years.


That is a big step forward after the crash, getting people back into the


industry. More first-time buyers onto the market. Final question, in


2010, 2011, your first year in government, there were 60,000


affordable homes built. May not be enough, but last day it was 30 2000.


So why should we trust anything you say about this? On housing, we have


delivered. We have delivered more social housing. Double what Labour


did in 13 years, in just five years. This is what this policy is about,


working with local authorities to deliver more homes to people in


their local areas. Thank you. Now, they have a deficit


of between 15 and 20% in the polls, but Jeremy Corbyn and those


around him insist Labour can win. If the polls are right they've got


three and half weeks to change voters' minds and persuade those


fabled undecided voters We enlisted the polling organisation


YouGov to help us find out how the performance of party leaders


will affect behaviour Leeds, a city of three quarters


of a million people, eight Parliamentary seats and home


to our very own focus group. Our panel was recruited


from a variety of backgrounds and the majority say they haven't


decided who to vote for yet. Watching behind the glass,


two experts on different sides Giles Cunningham, who headed up


political press at Downing Street under David Cameron


and Aaron Bastani, Corbin supporter, under David Cameron


and Aaron Bastani, Corbyn supporter, I think Theresa May sees herself


as a pound shop Thatcher. Milliband's policies but when it


came about who you want,


if you wake up on maybe a 2015, We found in a couple of focus


groups, people saying we'd be quite relieved,


even though some of those same people have been saying we quite


like the Labour policies. I think the fact that Corbyn's


going so hard on his values, this is a really progressive


manifesto, they live But I think that's a new challenge,


that wasn't there in 2015. Is there anyone here that


you don't recognise? After a little warm up,


the first exercise, recognising I think it's nice to have a strong


woman in politics, I do. But I've got to say,


when she comes on the news, I kind of do think,


here we go again. Tell me about Tim Farron, what


are your impressions of Tim Farron? It isn't going to do anything,


it isn't going to change anything. You'll be surprised to hear it's


actually the Greens. Strong and stable leadership


in the national interest. Yes, Team May, it's


the British equivalent of make What do we think about this one


for the many and not the few? It's not quite as bad


as strong and stable, but it will probably get


on our nerves after a while. We must seize that chance today


and every day until June the 8th. But that's not quite my


question, my question is, if you are Prime Minister,


we will leave, come hell or high water, whatever is on the table


at the end of the negotiations? If we win the election,


we'll get a good deal with Europe. Assertive and in control


and he felt comfortable But the second one, I thought


he was very hesitant. I thought he was kind of,


hovering around, skirting around and that's the second


time I've seen a similar interview with the question


being asked regarding Brexit. I don't think I'd have


any confidence with him You think you are going up


against some quite strong people, how are you going to stand


up for us? When you are in negotiations,


you need to be tough. And actually is right


to be tough sometimes, particularly when you are doing


something for the country. There's a reason for talking


about strong and stable leadership. It's about the future


of the country, it's It's just that people kind of listen


to that kind of thing and think Both on The One Show


and in the news. She attracts the public better


than what Corbyn does. She didn't answer the question


in a more articular way than Corbyn Imagine that Theresa


May is an animal. So, in your minds,


what animal is coming to mind I've done a Pekinese because I think


she's all bark and no bite. Alpaca because she's


superior looking and woolly I don't think his policies


are for the modern, real world. A mouse because they are weak


and they can be easily bullied, but also they can catch


you by surprise if you're What do you take away


from what you saw then, and what message would you send back


to the Tories now? I think what came over is people see


Theresa May as a strong politician, not everyone likes her,


but you don't need to be liked to be elected,


because ultimately it's about who do you trust with your future


and your security. I think what I also take out


of that focus group, was it was a group of floating


voters, there was no huge appetite for the Lib Dems and there was no


huge appetite for Ukip. So my messaged back to CCHQ


would be stick to the plan. I thought the response


to the manifesto was excellent. It's clear that people aren't


particularly keen on Theresa May, There are some associations with her


about strength and stability, which is exactly what the Tory party


want of course, but they are not positive and nobody thinks


that she has a vision So, what I'd say the Jeremy Corbyn,


what I'd say to the Labour Party is, they need to really emphasise


the manifesto in Jeremy Corbyn himself has to perform


out of his skin and I think he has to reemphasise those


characteristics which may be have come to the fore may be


over the last 12 months, resilience, strength and the fact


that he's come this far, why not take that final step and go


into ten Downing Street? We're joined now by the American


political consultant For the sake of this discussion,


assume the polls at the moment are broadly right, is there any hope for


Mr Corbyn in the undecided voters? Know, and this is a very serious


collection with serious consequences to who wins. Nobody cares whether


you can draw and what animal they represent, they want to know where


they stand, and I felt that was frivolous. I come to Britain to


watch elections because I learned from here. Your elections are more


substantial, more serious, more policy and less about personality


and that peace was only about personality. That's partly because


Mrs May has decided to make this a presidential election. You can see


on the posters it is all Team May. I agree with that, and in her language


she says not everyone benefits from a Conservative government, I don't


see how using anything Republicans have used in the past. In fact her


campaign is more of a centrist Democrats but it is a smart strategy


because it pushes Corbyn further to the left. Of course you said Hillary


Clinton have won. On election night the polling was so bad in America,


the exit polls that were done, the BBC told America she had won. No, I


was anchoring the programme that night, I ignored your tweet. The BBC


had the same numbers. Yes, but we did not say she had won, I can


assure you of that. Because of people like you we thought she had


but we didn't broadcast it. That was a smart approach. My point is other


than teasing you, maybe there is hope for Jeremy Corbyn. I think you


will have one of the lowest turnout in modern history and I think Labour


will fall to one of the lowest percentages, not percentage of


number of seats they have had, and this will be a matter of


soul-searching for both political parties. What you do with a sizeable


majority, and she has a responsibility to tell the British


people exactly what happens as she moves forward. He and Labour will


have to take a look at whether they still represent a significant slice


of the British population. Do you see a realignment in British


politics taking place? I see a crumbling of the left and yet there


is still a significant percentage of the British population that once


someone who is centre-left. And they like a lot of Mr Corbyn's policies.


I'm listening to Michael foot. I went to school here in the 1980s and


I feel like I'm watching the Labour Party of 35 years ago, in a


population that wants to focus on the future, not the past. Thank you.


It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.


We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now


Do young people hold the key to the election


You've got to realise that the young people are the ones that are at very


rarely represented by the political parties.


And it will be eyes down in this East Midlands


constituency come polling day, with a difference of just 41 votes


Derby North has the smallest majority in the country.


My guests this week, Jessica Lee, was a Conservative MP for Erewash


for five years before standing down in 2015 and Graham Allen,


has been a Labour MP for Nottingham North for 30


years, but is stepping down at this election.


We'll also be joined by the Lib Dems and the Greens.


Welcome to you both and first let's get your reaction to some of this


The Conservative's big announcement is the promise


With hundreds of millions of pounds invested,


but we need 20,000 homes a year in the East Midlands alone.


I think it's a fantastic headline this morning. I'm glad it's come up


this early in the election campaign as well, because it has to be a


priority. It's not just the homes that are needed and going to bring


so much future for people, but it's the job and opportunities that go


with that. In the East Midlands, we have a proud history of building


apprenticeships in Syria. Think there will be opportunities in


wholesale, not just for the families and people moving in, but for


businesses. Michael Farren was being very big about whether that would


actually be extra cash for this policy. You'll know more than I do


at this stage. People are interested in costings. We have seen when


Labour got into difficulty with Diane Abbott. I think people do want


to know. I think the emphasis will be on the Conservatives to explain


how this is going to be funded and I hope they are able to set that as


possible. The manifestos will be out next week.


It's another example though of the Conservatives moving


You think they'd have the numbers and know what they're doing on


council housing after seven years in Government. They're making something


up, probably because Labour was very clear in its announcement that there


would be 100,000 extra new councils. Frankly, central Government, whether


it's Labour or Conservative telling us what we have to do locally, you


have to listen to people locally. There are places where we can


council housing. They're clearly targeting Labour


voters and that could cause Labourer boaters are not stupid,


they can see through this. I think what Labour reporters while we think


that the country is that they should leave it to the localities. My


constituency that I am now leaving doesn't need any more housing. It's


90% more housing already. We need more balanced community. Other areas


can take more housing. We've had to be localities and not have Labour or


Conservative telling us what to do from Whitehall.


One big question that could have a major influence on this


election is how many young people will turn out to vote.


There's been growing concern at their lack


of engagement in politics, but tens of thousands have


rushed to register in time for the general election.


Here's our political editor, Tony Roe.


On Friday morning, know that you are to blame for what happened.


A year ago, this student was in Ashby


telling Boris Johnson what he thought about Brexit.


At 17, Will Taylor had no other say than that.


But now he's old enough to vote in his first general election.


I'm lucky I've been brought up in a background where politics


But I don't think in everyone's house...


I think in-school current affairs maybe should be on


There is concern from the Electoral Commission that


three out of ten 18 to 24-year-olds are not


yet registered to vote and


many may have fallen off the electoral rolls


since the system was changed to meet each individual register.


Since last summer's EU referendum, three quarters of a


There is concern not enough of them have


And they've only got one week left to do it.


What we'll do is we'll head up into the polling


There have always been young political activists.


These University of Leicester students are


giving up their spare time to campaign for the Conservatives.


Whether it's just reading the news occasionally,


or seeing the news on Twitter in the morning,


it's vital that young people get involved in politics.


It's just important to young people as it is to all age


Them being the youngest, they are going to love the most.


So they need to be involved in politics,


Out on the streets of Nottingham, it's young Labour activists and


the polls show new voters are more likely to vote Labour.


The party see getting that support as a way of


Even if you're not going to vote for a party


that I would support, it still critical that


And actually, you know, the more young people are involved, all


parties, not just Labour, all parties will have to listen to them


and maybe reconsider some of their policies and target some


of those policies to win those younger voters over.


You know you're getting old when politicians look younger.


In Mansfield, Katie Atherton is the director of the growing media


She's been a Labour district councillor since early 20s,


Politicians, she says, get too much of use.


People don't want to say anything wrong or


And if you kind of mail your colours to the flag and the, "Well, do you


know what, I'm from this party, I'm from this party and that's me."


You are 100% going to get people that


So, what about those who don't engage with politics


We asked the Prime Minister, who was campaigning this


Opportunities that they've got for the future, our


future prosperity, depend on what happens over


That is about getting Brexit right, it's also about taking the country


So, I would say this is an important election, because it


It matters for them because it's about


The priorities for each generation are likely to be


different and will affect how they vote.


Labour offer things for young people.


They don't offer much and people do see it the lesser of


two evils, but I struggle to find, and I have looked, I struggle to


find what Conservatives do offer for young people.


Well, it's the party of aspiration, the party of bettering


yourself, the party of low tax and the


Of course, being registered to vote is one


thing, another is connecting with young people enough to get them out


of their homes to the polling stations.


We're joined now by Mathew Hulbert a Liberal Democrat in


Leicestershire, who's the chair of the party's Friends


We've spoken to young people who voted Lib Dem


in 2010 and wouldn't vote again due to your infamous U-turn on tuition


fees when you were part of the coalition Government.


That's still your biggest problem in getting them


It is and it wasn't our finest hour. I voted against the rising in


the other way and the party did that the other way and the party did that


in Coalition. All we can do now is try and say to young people, yes,


that was a mistake, I admit it was a mistake, but the future now is all


about Brexit and many young people are against Brexit and the Liberal


Democrats are the only mainstream party that are fundamentally against


Brexit, that the we accept the original result, but that set us off


on a direction of travel, we don't know from the Prime Minister rarely


any details in terms of this negotiation that she's going to do


with the European leaders. The older generations that predominately


bloated for Brexit, I'm afraid will be those that have to live with it


for the shortest amount of time. Those that have to live with it are


those young people and I would say to them whatever mistakes by party


app made in the past, if you're against Brexit, your only option is


to vote for the Liberal Democrats. Labour are abolishing tuition fees


and of their manifesto is to be believed, they're hoping to cash in


believed, they're hoping to cash in on that.


Katie Atherton, who was in Tony's piece went


into politics and is now stepping down because of the abuse,


not just on social media, she found the whole process


of politics in Mansfield very gladitorial.


Politics is a tough old game. I was a councillor for four years. When


you're a politician, an elected representative, an MP or a


counsellor, you have to make decisions on popular agree with them


and some people don't. Some people are a tad rude in their opposition


to what you do. To a certain extent, you had to dig on the chin, because


get if you stand for election. But get if you stand for election. But


by the same token, I think social media, you know, I'm on Twitter,


most of us are. You are. It's very easy to be angry about something and


type it in and it sent away. Instead, you should have a breath,


have a thought, think about whether it I would say that the person to


their face, if not, don't type it. Don't be know of those who media. --


Maybe it's not in the interests of Conservatives


to encourage young people to vote - the younger you are, the more likely


That might be right, but I've always been consistent on this. I feel very


committed about encouraging people to register to vote from the


earliest opportunity, from the earliest possible age and to make


sure that people do take an interest in vote. I would say that the


earlier you take an interest, I would like to think that the


Conservative policies would appeal. Obviously that the policy of the


Conservative politicians. Be that as it may, this country is about the


future. You're voting for the next five years. Anyone coming to the


voting age now, there is such an important five years coming up. I


don't just mean Brexit, but domestic policy as well. This is their


You stood down after just one term, in a way you've walked away


from a career in politics too, were you disillusioned?


I hope not, no. I think public service is a brilliant thing to do.


It's a real privilege and pleasure. I also don't think that anyone


should be compelled to do it for whatever reason. It is about choice.


I think that's a really important message as well. For me it was about


serving my community, doing the best I possibly could and also for my


party and my country by the time I was there. I would say make sure you


vote and if you want to, make sure you stand. How do we make this


In the 1992 election, 63% of 18-24-year-olds voted.


In the last election it had dropped to 43%.


We all know how important this boat is, how are you going to bring it


home? And standing down whilst I still have some of my youth left. We


need to make politics more user-friendly generally. Above all


for women and also for young people. That includes things like getting


people involved, let's be a bit tough on this. Let's say that if we


can drop the voting age to 16, which I'm in favour of, then they should


be mandated. You are going to go and vote even if used by all your ballot


paper. That's something I have campaigned for for a long time,


online voting, is a young people don't have to take a day of college


or work. That also is that this idea that somehow young people are


different to everyone else in the issues they care about, whether it's


the environment, global warming, the state of our food, the state of


globe you multinationals evading tax. The idea that young people


don't have a job to go to, that we just throw people out of school at


the end of the day to fend for themselves. These are issues that


are of real concern to everyone, above all young people. We need to


respect that by making sure that we also give them the right mechanics


allow them to use the voting system. Do you support mandatory voting? As


long as it was an option of none of the above. You would have to have


that for mandatory voting. I think Graham is absolutely right, that


young people care about a range of issues. Youth clubs, run by councils


have been cut up and down the country. By local councils. But also


when you say to local councils, why have you felt you need to do this,


they blame the Budget from central Government. It's a vulnerable young


people that suffer when these services go. It's shameful. There is


some hope. Almost 60,000 young people registered foot to vote. That


is phenomenal and there's still time to do that before this election. The


fact that some young people in Scotland can vote in some elections


but not in others, giving people the mandate, the franchise and then


taking it away from them, shameful again. Thank you very much.


It's the most marginal constituency in England.


Just a few dozen votes separated the Conservatives and Labour


in 2015 in Derby North, with the Tories coming out


Now the Labour candidate is back, convinced that a full-blooded


backing of Jeremy Corbyn's policies will win the seat.


Not even a general election gets in the way of


bingo at the Jubilee Club in Chadderton.


But what will the voters be focusing on when they decide who


It's only going to get worse, isn't it?


The NHS is stretched, schools are stretched,


Derby North is a tricky constituency to predict.


It's gone back and forth between the Conservatives and Labour.


Throughout the 1980s, it was held by the


And under Tony Blair, Labour won it back and clung on here until


At the last election, it was the only seat


in the East Midlands to change, swinging back to the


It's all about celebrating what is great in


the city of Derby, but also recognising what it is that we need


And two years just hasn't been enough.


I've been doing lots and lots of things, but I would just


like to have more time to do even more.


You would expect that, but there are other


things as well around education, mental health.


Very, very close to my heart and I'm just hoping to be


part of a Government that does so much for mental health.


So, what will happen this time around?


Well, it certainly won't be victory for


Instead choosing to support the Labour candidate, who they say


It's probably the best manifesto we've


As you look back at the 1970s, working-class people as I


was then as a 19-year-old bricklayer, I was earning enough


money to buy a brand-new three bedroomed house in a desirable


That's impossible in this day and age.


We've got people sleeping on the street, we've got


over 1 million people reliant on food banks, zero our contracts,


A Labour victory here would be a pathway to a Labour


Government which would transform the lives of people in this city.


Ukip say they need to be in Parliament so


We have got to be there to make sure we get


the right result in the


She's already changed her mind about when there was going


to be an election, she's already changed her mind about whether or


not going to increase national insurance contributions.


So, what's to stop her now changing her mind on


There are many people here who know how important


it is for businesses like Rolls-Royce, Bombardier, like


Toyota locally to have access into the single market.


People have to consider what is most important to


them and whether it's the NHS or whether it


is her relationship with


Europe or whether it's funding for education.


It's eyes down for the general election in this marginal


If history is anything to go by, whoever wins here can look


forward to a full house in Parliament.


We're joined by Sue Mallender from the Green Party.


Sue Mallender, it's interesting that in Derby North you're not


standing to boost the chances of the Labour candidate.


And in Mansfield you're stepping aside to let Labour hoover up


We think we are giving them the chance to have their say, but


unfortunately it is a green vote in those particular constituencies is


not going to be successful. There are obviously constituencies in the


country where a green vote will be more successful and what we would


like to see as those other parties cooperating with us so that they


stand down, because I understand we stood down in 22 different


constituencies over across the country. That is because we want to


give people a chance to vote for those policies, because we think it


is policies not personalities that are important in elections we know


that there is more sharing in the latest Labour manifesto. There are


things we feel are important. With fracking and other aspects of the


environment, although a green vote is the only one if you are concerned


that the environment. Would Labour it stands down in favour of the


Green candidate? What we are hearing is this noise that politics,


Parliament isn't fit for purpose and above all our electoral system isn't


fit for purpose. All of those nonconservative parties will have to


consider proper alliances very, very seriously. The way to do that is not


just moments before the general election, which incidentally, we


promise was fixed term and that was done away with by Theresa May. That


was to create a platform, an anti-conservative platform that


Labour, liberals, the Greens and others agreed to support each


other's that we get a majority. When you got the majority, only then are


you going to be able to change the electoral system to a fear one so


that we hear the voices of the Greens, we hear the voices of Ukip


and the Lib Dems properly and we form alliances then to not have a


winner takes all system which is bad for all.


Jessica Lee, Theresa May famously described the idea


of the anti-Conservative parties aligning as a


"coalition of chaos" but an alliance of all the opposition parties


manipulate voters are not giving manipulate voters are not giving


them toys like this. You were in an them toys like this. You were in an


alliance for five years. You were in an alliance with the Liberal


Democrats. No, that was not. If I could just finished. Knee-high days


of the Labour Government with Prime Minister Blair, I don't remember


then that Labour suggesting they have alliances. The British people


don't like being told what to do and don't like being told what to do and


the like choice. I think there's going to be quite a bit of


scepticism and disappointment by people that do support a little


parties if they're not given a choice. I think political parties


should field as many political parties as possible. I agree with


that. What we don't want is that. We were the opposite. Our party voted


at conference because all our policies are voted at conference by


the people who are members. The only reason we want form alliances is so


that we can then have another election on proportional


representation is about people's voices are actually heard, because


no people that vote, their voices are interred. 48% of people voted


against coming out of the European Union. Their voices are into being


handed the moment. Under the Coalition Government, there was a


referendum about changing our voting patterns and people don't want to do


that. I do think it's better to be consistent about this and I hope the


Conservative Party do remain consistent about this, which is to


give every constituency as many different political parties as


possible and give people choice instead of trying to manipulate


voters. Whether you win under any system, it's a good system. That is


needed. We all know there is a better way of doing our politics


than winner takes all and shouting at each other at Prime Minister's


Questions and having an all powerful Prime Minister who isn't directly


elected. They should Alexa locally and not have some sort of surrogate


for the Prime Minister. That way you have a strong Parliament that will


hold to account a properly elected Government. To get to that position


you have to do is the electoral position. You will not change under


the current system. That will require everybody getting together


and putting our country and our politics ahead of pure policies and


party games. Are you worried that green edges will not be heard in all


of this? We know that we have some of the worst air pollution in our


countries and fracking is looming on the horizon. Lots of applications


you in the East Midlands. Early stages. The vote on proportional


representation was not a vote on that. AV is not in anybody's


proportional representation which they have in virtually all other


countries in the world. Onto the green issues, people have been


talking a lot young people and certainly this is something that's


important for young people. We are the only party that believes that we


have one planet which is a centre in fact, where the other parties in to


think that we have three or four to live on and saw the environment is a


vital important fact. We need to have that discussed and sadly it is


not discussed very much in the selection.


That's the Sunday Politics in the East Midlands.


Thanks to all our guests, Jessica Lee, Graham Allen,


Tories are saying. It is a very emotive subject and we have run out


of time. On Thursday nominations closed


in the 650 parliamentary seats across the country,


so now we know exactly who's We've been analysing the parties'


candidates to find out what they might tell us


about the make-up of the House Well, we know Theresa May is


committed to delivering Brexit and analysis of Conservative


candidates has shown that in their top 100 target seats,


37 candidates supported leave during last year's referendum


campaign and 20 supported remain; 43


have not made public In the last parliament,


the vast majority of Labour MPs were hostile to Jeremy Corbyn so how


supportive are Labour Well, of 50 of Labour's


top 100 target seats 17 candidates have expressed


support for Mr Corbyn. 20 candidates supported Owen Smith


in last year's leadership contest or have expressed


anti-Corbyn sentiment, and If they won those,


the Labour benches would be marginally more sympathetic


to Mr Corbyn than they are now. What do the figures tell us


about where the other Well, the Lib Dems have decided not


to stand against the Greens in Brighton Pavilion,


and are fielding 629 candidates this year -


that's two fewer than 2015. The number of Ukip candidates has


fallen dramatically. They are standing in 247 fewer


constituencies than 2015, throwing their support behind


solidly pro-Brexit Tories in some areas such as Lewes


and Norfolk North. The Greens are fielding


103 fewer candidates than at the last election,


standing down to help other progressive candidates


in some places. The most liking statistic is the


demise in Ukip candidates, is this their swansong? And I think so. It


is remarkable how few Ukip candidates are standing. It is hard


to see they will suddenly revive in the next couple of years. I think


this is probably the end. Frank Luntz mentioned the fragmentation of


the left was a feature of this election, but also there is the


consolidation of the right, and if you take the things together that


could explain why the polls are where they are. Absolutely, that's


precisely what happened at the start of the 1980s, the right was


incredibly united and that's when we started talking about majorities of


over 100 or so. No matter what the size of Theresa May's majority, it


will be the total collapse of Ukip, but not just because we are now


leaving the EU and that was their only reason for being, but a whole


lot of people voted for Ukip because they felt the Tories were no longer


listening. Theresa May has given the impression that she is listening,


and that is the biggest possible thing that could happen to the Tory


vote. Fragmentation of the left, consolidation of the right? It's one


of the lessons that is never learnt, it happened in the 1980s, it doesn't


take much for the whole thing to fracture so now you have on the


centre-left the SNP, the Labour Party, the Greens, the Liberal


Democrats all competing for the same votes and when you have, fleetingly


perhaps, large numbers coalescing on the right in one party, there is


only going to be one outcome. It happens regularly. It doesn't mean


the Tories haven't got their own fragility. Two years ago, David


Cameron and George Osborne the dominant figures, neither are in


Parliament now which is a symptom of the fragility this election is


disguising. Mrs May's position in a way reminds me of Mrs Thatcher in


the 1980s, I won't be outflanked on the right, Nicolas Sarkozy in


France, I won't be outflanked on the right, so the National Front didn't


get through either timed he ran to the second round on like this time,


and now Mrs May on Brexit won't be outflanked Iver and as a result has


seen off right flank. And also she is looking to the left as well with


some of the state interventions. What was interesting about the


analysis you showed a few minutes ago was the number of Tory


candidates who have apparently not declared which way they voted in the


referendum, and you would have thought if this election was all


about Brexit, as some would claim, that would become an unsustainable


position, and actually more it's about leadership. But the point that


I'm now hearing from a number of Labour candidates that they are


seeing Tory leaflets that don't even have the Tory candidate's name on


them, it is just about Theresa May. I am glad they are keeping to the


law because by law they have to put it on. It has been harder for some


of the smaller parties too because of the speed of the election being


called. We have the manifesto is coming out this week. I think Labour


Forshaw on Tuesday, we are not yet sure when the Tories will bring


bears out. I suggest one thing, it will at least for people like me


bring an end to the question you will have to wait for the manifesto.


And Rebecca Long baby will never have that excuse again, isn't it


wonderful! She is not the only one. When you are trying to take the


north and Midlands from Labour, I would go to one or the other. For


me, I can barely hold back my excitement over the Tory manifesto.


This will be, I think, the most important day for the British


government for the next five years. That wasn't irony there? You


actually meant that? I'm not even being cynical at all on Sunday


Politics! This is a huge day and it's because I think we will see...


I don't think Mrs May will play it safe and I don't think we will get


the broadbrush stuff that she might be advised to do. I think she will


lay out precisely what you want to do over the next five years and take


some big risks. Then finally after a year of this guessing and


theorising, we will finally work out what Mrs May is all about. She will


say she doesn't want the next parliament to be all about Brexit,


though she knows that's the next important thing she has to deliver


in some way, so she gets a mandate for that if the polls are right but


she does have very different ideas from


Mr Cameron about how to run a country. She will I assume one to


mandate for what these different ideas are. Otherwise there is no


point in holding an early election. You will get a majority, but if you


get a mandate to carry on implementing the Cameron and Osborne


manifesto it would be utterly pointless. I agree, it is the


pivotal event of the election and it will be interesting to see the


degree to which she expands on the line which interests me about its


time to look at the good that government can do. Because in a way


this moves the debate on in UK politics from, from 97 the Blair


Brown governments were insecure about arguing about the role of


government. Cameron Osborne government similarly so, so here you


have a Labour Party talking about the role of government and the


state, and Tory leader apparently doing so was well. I think that will


be really interesting to see whether it is fleshed out in any significant


way. And it is not a natural Tory message. Harold Macmillan talked


about the role of the state, Ted Heath Mark two was pretty big on the


state, the industrial policy and so on, and even if it is not thought to


be that Tory, does she get away with it because she deliver such a big


victory if that's what she does deliver? Just inject a little note


of scepticism, I wonder how much of this is authentically Theresa May. I


was interested to and talk to someone who used to sit in cabinet


meetings during which Theresa May never expressed an opinion on


anything outside the Home Office briefs. Other ministers were roving


all over their colleagues' briefs. So where are the ideas coming from?


I think we can point to Nick Timothy. One of her closest advisers


in Downing Street. It will be interesting to see how that evolves.


On Thursday I think we will all be talking about something called


Urdington Toryism. Urdington is the suburb of Birmingham where Nick


Timothy comes from, who is very much Theresa May's policy brain and


leading inspiration. Urdington Toryism is about connecting the


party with traditional working class voters, and their belief to do that


is not just taking away government out of their lives but showing them


that government can actually help their lives. It can be a force for


good to rebuild the trust. A lot of what Mrs May talks about is all...


It is talk and then a lot of it suddenly goes by the wayside. What


happened to worker directors on the boards. It is designed to appeal to


that constituency and then nothing happens. She had an excuse before in


the sense that it wasn't in the 2015 manifesto and she had a small


majority so therefore she arguably had to water down some of the stuff


for example in her Tory conference speech, which had a lot of this


active government material in it. If she puts it in the manifesto, it is


a sign she plans to do it and will have no excuse if she then gets


nervous afterwards because it will be in there. If it wasn't for


Brexit, this great overwhelming issue, I think this election will be


seen as quite a significant development in terms of an argument


around the role of government, much-needed. But Brexit


unfortunately overshadows it all. As much as we like our arguments over


the role of government we will hear strong and stable, stable and strong


ad nauseam, aren't we? Absolutely, and we heard the same old lines from


the Labour Party as well so they are all at it. It will be a fascinating


week, stop talking it down! Thanks to our panel.


The Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two at noon


I'll be back here at the same time on BBC One next Sunday.


Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.


Andrew Neil and Marie Ashby are joined by shadow business secretary Rebecca Long-Bailey and Home Office minister Brandon Lewis to discuss the party manifestos for the forthcoming general election. Plus American political pollster Frank Luntz, and a chat with undecided voters in Leeds. Journalists Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards review the papers.

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