29/10/2017 Sunday Politics East Midlands


29/10/2017

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Morning, everyone.

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I'm Sarah Smith, and welcome

to The Sunday Politics,

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where we always bring you everything

you need to know to understand

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what's going on in politics.

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Coming up on today's programme...

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The Government says

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the international trade minister

Mark Garnier will be investigated

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following newspaper allegations

of inappropriate behaviour

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towards a female staff member.

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We'll have the latest.

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The Prime Minister says she can

agree a deal with the EU and plenty

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of time for Parliament to vote on it

before we leave in 2018. Well

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Parliament play ball? New evidence

cast out on the

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In the East Midlands: a call

to our MPs to fight for more

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Government spending in the region,

as new figures show we're

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bottom of the pile.

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And the tourism boom bringing

in billions of pounds.

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on from the abortion act white MPs

are lobbying the Home Secretary to

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stop the alleged harassment of women

attending abortion clinics.

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All that coming up in the programme.

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And with me today to help make sense

of all the big stories,

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Julia Hartley-Brewer,

Steve Richards and Anne McElvoy.

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Some breaking news this morning.

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The Government has announced

that it will investigate

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whether the International Trade

Minister Mark Garnier broke

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the Ministerial Code

following allegations

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of inappropriate behaviour.

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It comes after reports in the Mail

on Sunday which has spoken to one

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of Mr Garnier's former employees.

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News of the investigation

was announced by the Health

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Secretary Jeremy Hunt

on the Andrew Marr show earlier.

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The stories, if they are true,

are totally unacceptable

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and the Cabinet Office will be

conducting an investigation

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as to whether there has been

a breach of the ministerial code

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in this particular case.

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But as you know the

facts are disputed.

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This is something that covers

behaviour by MPs of all parties

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and that is why the other thing

that is going to happen

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is that today Theresa May

is going to write to John Bercow,

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the Speaker of the House of Commons,

to ask for his advice as to how

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we change that culture.

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That was Jeremy Hunt a little

earlier. I want to turn to the panel

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to make sense of this news. This is

the government taking these

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allegations quite seriously.

What

has changed in this story is they

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used to be a bit of delay while

people work out what they should say

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about it, how seriously to take it.

As you see now a senior cabinet

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member out there, Jeremy Hunt, with

an instant response. He does have

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the worry of whether the facts are

disputed, but what they want to be

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seen doing is to do something very

quickly. In the past they would say

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it was all part of the rough and

tumble of Westminster.

Mark Garnier

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does not deny these stories, which

is that he asked an employee to buy

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sex toys, but he said it was just

high jinks and it was taken out of

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context. Is this the sort of thing

that a few years ago in a different

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environment would be investigated?

Not necessarily quite the frenzy

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that it is nowadays. The combination

of social media, all the Sunday

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political programmes were ministers

have to go on armed with a response

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means that you get these we have to

be seen to be doing something. That

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means there is this Cabinet Office

investigation. You pointed out to us

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before the programme that he was not

a minister before this happened. It

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does not matter whether he says yes,

know I did this or did not,

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something has to be seen to be done.

Clearly ministers today are being

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armed with that bit of information

and that Theresa May will ask John

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Bercow the speaker to look into the

whole culture of Parliament in this

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context. That is the response to

this kind of frenzy.

If we do live

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in an environment where something

has to be seen to be done, does that

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always mean the right thing gets

done?

Absolutely not. We are in

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witch hunt territory. All of us work

in the Commons over many years and

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anyone would think it was a scene

out of Benny Hill or a carry on

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film. Sadly it is not that much fun

and it is rather dull and dreary.

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Yes, there are sex pests, yes, there

is sexual harassment, but the idea

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this is going on on a huge scale is

nonsense.

Doesn't matter whether it

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is a huge scale or not? Or just a

few instances?

Any workplace where

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you have the mixing of work and

social so intertwined and you throw

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a huge amount of alcohol and late

night and people living away from

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home you will have this happen.

That

does not make it OK.

It makes sexual

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harassment not OK as it is not

anywhere. This happens to men as

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well and if they have an issue into

it there are employment tribunal 's

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and they can contact lawyers. I do

not think this should be a matter of

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the speaker, it should be someone

completely independent of any party.

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People think MPs are employees of

the party or the Commons, they are

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not.

Because they are self-employed

to whom do you go if you are a

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researcher?

That has to be

clarified. I agree you need a much

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clearer line of reporting. It was a

bit like the situation when we came

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into the media many years ago, the

Punic wars in my case! You were not

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quite sure who to go to. If you work

worried that it might impede your

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career, and you had to talk to

people who work next to you, that is

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just one example, but in the Commons

people do not know who they should

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go to. Where Theresa May might be

making a mistake, it is the same

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mistake when it was decided to

investigate through Levinson the

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culture of the media which was like

nailing jelly to a wall. Look at the

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culture of anybody's job and the

environment they are in and there is

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usually a lot wrong with it. When

you try and make it general, they

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are not trying to blame individuals,

or it say they need a better line on

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reporting of sexual harassment,

which I support, the Commons is a

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funny place and it is a rough old

trade and you are never going to

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iron out the human foibles of that.

Diane Abbott was talking about this

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earlier.

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When I first went into Parliament so

many of those men had been to all

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boys boarding schools and had really

difficult attitudes towards women.

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The world has moved on and

middle-aged women are less likely

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than middle-aged men to believe that

young research are irresistibly

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attracted to them. We have seen the

issues and we have seen one of our

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colleagues been suspended for quite

unacceptable language.

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That is a point, Jarrod O'Mara, a

Labour MP who has had the whip

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suspended, this goes across all

parties.

The idea that there is a

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left or right divide over this is

absurd. This is a cultural issue. In

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the media and in a lot of other

institutions if this is going to

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develop politically, the frenzy will

carry on for a bit and other names

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will come out over the next few

days, not just the two we have

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mentioned so far in politics. But it

also raises questions about how

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candidates are selected for example.

There has been a huge pressure for

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the centre to keep out of things. I

bet from now on there will be much

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greater scrutiny of all candidates

and tweets will have to be looked at

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and all the rest of it.

Selecting

candidates is interesting. Miriam

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Gonzalez, Nick Clegg's wife, says

that during that election they knew

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about Jarrod O'Mara and the Lib Dems

knew about it, so it is difficult to

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suggest the Labour Party did not as

well.

There is very clear evidence

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the Labour Party did know. But we

are in a situation of how perfect

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and well-behaved does everyone have

to be? If you look at past American

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presidents, JFK and Bill Clinton,

these men were sex pest

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extraordinaire, with totally

inappropriate behaviour on a regular

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basis. There are things you are not

allowed to say if you are feminists.

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Young women are really attracted to

powerful men. I was busted for the

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idea that there are young women in

the House of commons who are

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throwing themselves at middle-aged,

potbellied, balding, older men. We

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need to focus on the right things.

When it is unwanted, harassing,

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inappropriate and criminal,

absolutely, you come down like a

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tonne of bricks. It is not just

because there are more women in the

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Commons, it is because there are

more men married to women like us.

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We have to leave it there.

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As attention turns in

Westminster to the hundreds

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of amendments put down on the EU

Withdrawal Bill, David Davis has

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caused a stir this week by saying

it's possible Parliament won't get

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a vote on the Brexit deal

until after March 2019 -

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when the clock runs out

and we leave the EU.

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Let's take a look at how

the controversy played out.

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And which point do you envisage

Parliament having a vote?

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As soon as possible thereafter.

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This Parliament?

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As soon as possible

possible thereafter, yeah.

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As soon as possible thereafter.

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So, the vote in Parliament...

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The other thing...

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Could be after March 2019?

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It could be, yeah, it could be.

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The...

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It depends when it concludes.

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Mr Barnier, remember,

has said he'd like...

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Sorry, the vote of our Parliament,

the UK Parliament, could be

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after March 2019?

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Yes, it could be.

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Could be.

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The thing to member...

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Which would be...

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Well, it can't come

before we have the deal.

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You said that it is POSSIBLE that

Parliament night not vote

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on the deal until AFTER

the end of March 2019.

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I'm summarising correctly

what you said...?

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Yeah, that's correct.

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In the event we don't do

the deal until then, yeah.

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Can the Prime Minister please

explain how it's possible

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to have a meaningful vote

on something that's

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already taken place?

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As the honourable gentleman knows,

we're in negotiations

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with the European Union, but I am

confident that the timetable under

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the Lisbon Treaty does give time

until March 2019

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for the negotiations to take place.

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But I'm confident, because it is in

the interests of both sides,

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it's not just this Parliament that

wants to have a vote on that deal,

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but actually there will be

ratification by other parliaments,

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that we will be able to achieve that

agreement and that negotiation

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in time for this Parliament

to have a vote that we committed to.

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We are working to reach

an agreement on the final deal

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in good time before we leave

the European Union in March 2019.

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Clearly, we cannot say

for certain at this stage

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when this will be agreed.

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But as Michel Barnier said,

he hopes to get a draft deal

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agreed by October 2018,

and that's our aim is well.

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agreed by October 2018,

and that's our aim as well.

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I'm joined now by the former

Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary

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Benn, who is the chair

of the Commons Brexit Committee,

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which David Davis was

giving evidence to.

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Good morning.

When you think a

parliamentary vote should take place

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in order for it to be meaningful?

It

has to be before we leave the

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European Union. Michel Barnier said

at the start of the negotiations

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that he wants to wrap them up by

October of next year, so we have

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only got 12 months left, the clock

is ticking and there is a huge

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amount of ground to cover.

You do

not think there is any point in

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having the vote the week before we

leave because you could then not go

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and re-negotiate?

That would not be

acceptable. We will not be given a

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bit of paper and told to take it or

leave it. But the following day

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Steve Baker, also a minister in the

department, told our committee that

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the government now accepts that in

order to implement transitional

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arrangements that it is seeking, it

will need separate legislation. I

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put the question to him if you are

going to need separate legislation

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to do that, why don't you have a

separate bill to implement the

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withdrawal agreement rather than

seeking to use the powers the

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government is proposing to take in

the EU withdrawal bill.

If we stick

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to the timing, you have said you do

not think it is possible to

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negotiate a trade deal in the next

12 months. You say the only people

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who think that is possible British

ministers. If you do not believe we

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can get a deal negotiated, how can

we get a vote on it in 12 months'

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time?

If things go well, and there

is still a risk of no agreement

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which would be disastrous for the

economy and the country, if

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things go there will be a deal on

the divorce issues, there will be a

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deal on the nature of the

transitional arrangement and the

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government is to set out how it

thinks that will work, and then an

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agreement between the UK and the 27

member states saying, we will now

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negotiate a new trade and market

access arrangement, and new

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association agreement between the

two parties, and that will be done

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in the transition period. Parliament

will be voting in those

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circumstances on a deal which leads

to the door being open.

But we would

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be outside the EU at that point, so

how meaningful can vote be where you

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take it or leave it if we have

already left the EU? Surely this has

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to happen before March 2019 for it

to make a difference?

I do not think

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it is possible to negotiate all of

the issues that will need to be

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covered in the time available.

Then

it is not possible to have a

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meaningful vote on it?

Parliament

will have to have a look at the deal

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presented to it. It is likely to be

a mix agreement so the approval

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process in the rest of Europe,

unlike the Article 50 agreement,

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which will be a majority vote in the

European Parliament and in the

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British Parliament, every single

Parliament will have a vote on it,

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so it will be a more complex process

anyway, but I do not think that is

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the time to get all of that sorted

between now and October next year.

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Whether it is before or after we

have left the EU, the government

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have said it is a take it or leave

it option and it is the Noel Edmonds

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option, deal or no Deal, you say yes

or no to it. You cannot send them

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back to re-negotiate.

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If it is a separate piece of

legislation, when Parliament has a

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chance to shape the nature of that

legislation.

But it can't change

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what has been negotiated with the

EU?

Well, you could say to the

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government, we're happy with this

but was not happy about that chukka

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here's some fresh instructions, go

back in and...

It seems to me what

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they want is the maximum access to

the single market for the lowest

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possible tariffs, whilst able to

control migration. If they've got to

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get the best deal that they can on

that, how on earth is the Labour

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Party, saying we want a bit more,

owing to persuade the other 27?

We

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certainly don't want the lowest

possible tariffs, we want no tariffs

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are taught. My personal view is

that, has made a profound mistake in

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deciding that it wants to leave the

customs union. If you want to help

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deal with the very serious question

of the border between Northern

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Ireland and the Republic of Ireland,

the way you do that is to stay in

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the customs union and I hope, will

change its mind.

But the Labour

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Party is simply saying in the House

of Commons, we want a better deal

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than what, has been able to get?

It

depends how the negotiations unfold.

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, has ended up on the transitional

arrangements in the place that Keir

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Starmer set out on behalf of the

shadow cabinet in August, when he

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said, we will need to stay in the

single market and the customs union

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for the duration of the transition,

and I think that is the position,

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has now reached. It has not been

helped by differences of view within

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the Cabinet, and a lot of time has

passed and there's proved time left

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and we have not even got on to the

negotiations. -- there's very little

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time left.

On phase two, the labour

Party have set out six clear tests,

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and two of them are crucial. You say

you want the exact same benefits we

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currently have in the customs union

but you also want to be able to

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ensure the fair migration to control

immigration, basically, which does

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sound a bit like having your cake

and eating it. You say that you will

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vote against any deal that doesn't

give you all of that, the exact same

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benefits of the single market, and

allowing you to control migration.

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But you say no deal would be

catastrophic if so it seems to me

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you're unlikely to get the deal that

you could vote for but you don't

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want to vote for no deal?

We

absolutely don't want a no deal.

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Businesses have sent a letter to the

Prime Minister saying that a

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transition is essential because the

possibility of a no deal and no

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transitional would be very damaging

for the economy. We fought the

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general election on a policy of

seeking to retain the benefits of

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the single market and the customs

union. Keir Starmer said on behalf

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of the shadow government that as far

as the longer term arrangements are

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concerned, that should leave all

options on the table, because it is

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the end that you're trying to

achieve and you then find the means

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to support it. So we're setting out

very clearly those tests.

If you

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were to vote down an agreement

because it did not meet your tests,

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and there was time to send, back to

the EU to get a better deal, then

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you would have significantly

weakened their negotiating hand

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chukka that doesn't help them?

I

don't think, has deployed its

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negotiating hand very strongly thus

far. Because we had a general

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election which meant that we lost

time that we would have used for

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negotiating. We still don't know

what kind of long-term trade and

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market access deal, wants. The Prime

Minister says, I don't want a deal

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like Canada and I don't want a deal

like the European Economic Area. But

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we still don't know what kind of

deal they want. With about 12 months

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to go, the other thing, needs to do

is to set out very clearly above all

0:19:240:19:28

for the benefit of the other 27

European countries, what kind of

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deal it wants. When I travel to

Europe and talk to those involved in

0:19:330:19:36

the negotiations, you see other

leaders saying, we don't actually

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know what Britain wants. With a year

to go it is about time we made that

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clear.

One related question on the

European Union - you spoke in your

0:19:450:19:51

famous speech in Syria about the

international brigades in Spain, and

0:19:510:19:54

I wonder if your solidarity with

them leads you to think that the UK

0:19:540:19:59

Government should be recognising

Catalonia is an independent state?

0:19:590:20:02

No, I don't think so. It is a very

difficult and potentially dangerous

0:20:020:20:07

situation in Catalonia at the

moment. Direct rule from Madrid is

0:20:070:20:12

not a long-term solution. There

needs to be a negotiation, and

0:20:120:20:17

elections will give Catalonia the

chance to take that decision, but I

0:20:170:20:21

am not clear what the declaration of

independence actually means. Are

0:20:210:20:27

they going to be borders, is they're

going to be an army? There will have

0:20:270:20:31

to be some agreement. Catalonia has

already had a high degree of

0:20:310:20:35

autonomy. It may like some more, and

it seems to me if you look at the

0:20:350:20:40

experience here in the United

Kingdom, that is the way to go, not

0:20:400:20:45

a constitutional stand-off. And I

really hope nobody is charged with

0:20:450:20:48

rebellion, because actually that

would make matters worse.

0:20:480:20:52

Now, the Government has this

week reopened the public

0:20:520:20:56

consultation on plans for a third

runway at Heathrow.

0:20:560:20:58

While ministers are clear

the £18 billion project

0:20:580:21:00

is still the preferred option,

new data raises further questions

0:21:000:21:03

about the environmental

impact of expansion,

0:21:030:21:04

and offers an improved

economic case for a second

0:21:040:21:06

runway at Gatwick instead.

0:21:060:21:08

So, with opponents on all sides

of the Commons, does the Government

0:21:080:21:10

still have the votes to get

the plans off the ground?

0:21:100:21:13

Here's Elizabeth Glinka.

0:21:130:21:22

The debate over the expansion

of Heathrow has been

0:21:260:21:28

going on for decades.

0:21:280:21:30

Plans for a third runway

were first introduced

0:21:300:21:32

by the Labour government in 2003.

0:21:320:21:34

Then, after spending millions

of pounds, finally, in 2015,

0:21:340:21:37

the airport commission recommended

that those plans go ahead,

0:21:370:21:43

and the government position

appeared to be fixed.

0:21:430:21:46

But, of course, since then,

we've had a general election.

0:21:460:21:49

The Government have lost

their Commons majority.

0:21:490:21:53

And with opposition on both front

benches, the Parliamentary

0:21:530:21:55

arithmetic looks a little bit up

in the air.

0:21:550:22:00

A lot has changed since the airport

commission produced its report,

0:22:000:22:03

and that don't forget

was the bedrock for the Government's

0:22:030:22:06

decision, that's why the government

supposedly made the decision

0:22:060:22:08

that it made.

0:22:080:22:09

But most of the assumptions

made in that report have

0:22:090:22:12

been undermined since,

by data on passenger numbers,

0:22:120:22:14

on economic benefits, and more

than anything, on pollution.

0:22:140:22:17

There's demand from international

carriers to get into Heathrow.

0:22:170:22:20

More and more people want to fly.

0:22:200:22:22

And after the referendum,

connectivity post-Brexit

0:22:220:22:26

is going to be absolutely critical

to the UK economy, so if anything,

0:22:260:22:29

I think the case is stronger

for expansion at Heathrow.

0:22:290:22:35

A vote on expansion had been due

to take place this summer.

0:22:350:22:38

But with Westminster somewhat

distracted, that didn't happen.

0:22:380:22:40

Now, fresh data means

the Government has had to reopen

0:22:400:22:43

the public consultation.

0:22:430:22:49

But it maintains the case

for Heathrow is as strong as ever,

0:22:490:22:52

delivering benefits of up

to £74 billion to the wider economy.

0:22:520:22:57

And in any case, the Government

says, action must be taken,

0:22:570:23:00

as all five of London's airports

will be completely

0:23:000:23:04

full by the mid-2030s.

0:23:040:23:09

Still, the new research does cast

an alternative expansion at Gatwick

0:23:090:23:11

in a more favourable economic light,

while showing Heathrow

0:23:110:23:15

is now less likely to meet

its environmental targets.

0:23:150:23:23

Campaigners like these in Hounslow

sense the wind is shifting.

0:23:230:23:27

We're feeling encouraged,

because we see all kinds

0:23:270:23:30

of weaknesses in the argument.

0:23:300:23:32

Certainly, quite a few MPs,

I think certainly Labour MPs,

0:23:320:23:35

are beginning to think perhaps it's

not such a great idea

0:23:350:23:37

to have a third runway.

0:23:370:23:40

Their MP is convinced colleagues

can now be persuaded

0:23:400:23:42

to see things their way.

0:23:420:23:45

The Labour Party quite

rightly set four key tests

0:23:450:23:47

for a third runway at Heathrow.

0:23:470:23:50

And in my view,

Heathrow is not able...

0:23:500:23:53

The Heathrow option is not able

to pass any of those.

0:23:530:23:57

So, I see a lot of colleagues

in the Labour Party around

0:23:570:24:00

the country beginning

to think twice.

0:24:000:24:02

And if you look at the cross-party

MPs supportin this anti-Heathrow

0:24:020:24:08

And if you look at the cross-party

MPs supporting this anti-Heathrow

0:24:080:24:11

protest this week, you will see

some familiar faces.

0:24:110:24:13

You know my position -

as the constituency MP,

0:24:130:24:15

I'm totally opposed.

0:24:150:24:17

I think this is another indication

of just the difficulties

0:24:170:24:19

the Government have got off

of implementing this policy.

0:24:190:24:22

I don't think it's going to happen,

I just don't think

0:24:220:24:24

it's going to happen.

0:24:240:24:25

So, if some on the Labour

front bench are, shall

0:24:250:24:28

we say, not supportive,

what about the other side?

0:24:280:24:31

In a free vote, we could have had up

to 60 Conservative MPs

0:24:310:24:34

voting against expansion,

that's the number that is normally

0:24:340:24:36

used and I think it's right.

0:24:360:24:37

In the circumstances where it

requires an active rebellion,

0:24:370:24:39

the numbers would be fewer.

0:24:390:24:41

I can't tell you what that

number is, but I can tell

0:24:410:24:44

you that there are people right

the way through the party,

0:24:440:24:46

from the backbenches

to the heart of the government,

0:24:460:24:49

who will vote against

Heathrow expansion.

0:24:490:24:50

And yet the SNP, whose Commons

votes could prove vital,

0:24:500:24:54

are behind the Heathrow plan,

which promises more

0:24:540:24:55

connecting flights.

0:24:550:24:56

And other supporters are convinced

they have the numbers.

0:24:560:25:01

There is a majority of members

of Parliament that support Heathrow

0:25:010:25:04

expansion, and when that is put

to the test, whenever that will be,

0:25:040:25:07

I think that will be

clearly demonstrated.

0:25:070:25:09

Any vote on this issue

won't come until next summer.

0:25:090:25:11

For both sides, yet more time

to argue about weather

0:25:110:25:14

the plans should take off

or be permanently grounded.

0:25:140:25:21

Elizabeth Glinka there.

0:25:240:25:26

And I'm joined now by the former

Cabinet minister Theresa Villiers,

0:25:260:25:29

who oversaw aviation policy

as a transport minister

0:25:290:25:31

under David Cameron.

0:25:310:25:37

Thanks for coming in. You have made

your opposition to a third runway at

0:25:370:25:43

Heathrow consistently clear. , have

reopened this consultation but it is

0:25:430:25:46

still clearly their preferred

option?

It is but what I have always

0:25:460:25:50

asked is, why try to build a new

runway at Heathrow when you can

0:25:500:25:54

build one at Gatwick in half the

time, for half the cost and with a

0:25:540:25:57

tiny fraction of the environment

will cost average is that true,

0:25:570:26:01

though? Private finance is already

to go at Heathrow, because that's

0:26:010:26:05

where people want to do it and

that's where the private backers

0:26:050:26:08

want to put it. It would take much

longer to get the private finance

0:26:080:26:12

for Gatwick? Part of that private

finance is passengers of the future,

0:26:120:26:17

but also, the costs of the surface

transport needed to expand Heathrow

0:26:170:26:21

is phenomenal. I mean, TfL estimates

vary between £10 billion and £15

0:26:210:26:30

billion. And there's no suggestion

that those private backers are going

0:26:300:26:33

to meet those costs. So, this is a

hugely expensive project as well as

0:26:330:26:38

one which will create very

significant damage.

Heathrow is

0:26:380:26:42

ultimately where passengers and

airlines want to go to, isn't it?

0:26:420:26:45

Every slot is practically full.

Every time a new one comes up, it is

0:26:450:26:49

up immediately, it's a very popular

airport. Gatwick is not where they

0:26:490:26:55

want to go?

There are many airlines

and passengers who do want to fly

0:26:550:26:58

from Gatwick, and all the forecasts

indicate that a new runway there

0:26:580:27:03

would be full of planes very

rapidly. But I think the key thing

0:27:030:27:07

is that successive elements have

said, technology will deliver a way

0:27:070:27:12

to resolve the around noise and air

quality. I don't have any confidence

0:27:120:27:18

that science has demonstrated that

technology will deliver those

0:27:180:27:22

solutions to these very serious

environmental limbs which have

0:27:220:27:27

stopped Heathrow expansion for

decades.

Jim Fitzpatrick in the film

0:27:270:27:29

was mentioning that people think

there is a need for even more

0:27:290:27:34

collectivity in Britain post-Brexit.

We know that business has been

0:27:340:27:37

crying out for more routes, they

really think it hurts business

0:27:370:27:40

expansion that we don't get on with

this. More consultation is just

0:27:400:27:45

going to lead to more delay, isn't

it?

This is a hugely controversial

0:27:450:27:49

decision. There is a reason why

people have been talking about

0:27:490:27:52

expanding Heathrow for 50 years and

it is never happened, it's because

0:27:520:27:55

it's a bad idea. So, inevitably the

legal processes are very complex.

0:27:550:28:00

One of my anxieties about, pursuing

this option is that potentially it

0:28:000:28:05

means another lost decade for

airport expansion. Because the

0:28:050:28:08

problems with Heathrow expansion are

so serious, I believe that's one of

0:28:080:28:14

the reasons why I advocated, anyone

who wants a new runway in the

0:28:140:28:17

south-east should be backing Gatwick

is a much more deliverable option.

0:28:170:28:21

Let me move on to Brexit. We were

talking with Hilary Benn about a

0:28:210:28:27

meaningful vote being given to the

House of Commons chukka how

0:28:270:28:30

important do you think that is?

Of

course the Commons will vote on

0:28:300:28:33

this. The Commons is going to vote

on this many, many times. We have

0:28:330:28:39

also had a hugely important vote not

only in the referendum on the 23rd

0:28:390:28:42

of June but also on Article 50.

But

will that vote allow any changes to

0:28:420:28:46

it? Hilary Benn seemed to think that

the Commons would be able to shape

0:28:460:28:52

the deal with the vote. But actually

is it going to be, saying, take it

0:28:520:28:56

or leave it at all what we have

negotiated?

Our Prime Minister

0:28:560:29:01

negotiates on our behalf

internationally. It's

0:29:010:29:06

well-established precedent that

after an agreement is reached

0:29:060:29:08

overseas, then it is considered in

the House of Commons.

What if it was

0:29:080:29:14

voted down in the House of Commons?

Well, the legal effect of that would

0:29:140:29:18

be that we left the European Union

without any kind of deal, because

0:29:180:29:21

the key decision was on the voting

of Article 50 as an irreversible

0:29:210:29:26

decision.

Is it irreversible,

though? We understand, may have had

0:29:260:29:31

legal advice saying that Yukon

stopped the clock on Article 50.

0:29:310:29:35

Would it not be possible if the

Commons voted against to ask the

0:29:350:29:38

European Union for a little bit more

time to try and renegotiate?

There

0:29:380:29:41

is a debate about the reversibility

of Article 50. But the key point is

0:29:410:29:50

that we are all working for a good

deal for the United Kingdom and the

0:29:500:29:56

I'm concerned that some of the

amendments to the legislation are

0:29:560:30:00

not about the nature of the deal at

the end of the process, they're just

0:30:000:30:03

about frustrating the process. I

think that would be wrong. I think

0:30:030:30:10

we should respect the result of the

referendum.

Will it be by next

0:30:100:30:13

summer, so there is time for

Parliament and for other

0:30:130:30:16

parliaments?

I certainly hope that

we get that agreement between the

0:30:160:30:18

two sides, and the recent European

summit seemed to indicate a

0:30:180:30:24

willingness from the European side

to be constructive. But one point

0:30:240:30:28

where I think Hilary Benn has a

point, if we do secure agreement on

0:30:280:30:32

a transitional deal, that does

potentially give us more time to

0:30:320:30:35

work on the details of a trade

agreement. I hope we get as much as

0:30:350:30:40

possible in place before exit day.

But filling out some of that detail

0:30:400:30:44

is made easier if we can secure that

two-year transitional deal.

0:30:440:30:52

That is interesting because a lot of

Brexiteers what the deal to be done

0:30:520:30:59

by the inflammation period, it is

not a time for that.

I fully

0:30:590:31:06

recognise we need compromise, I am

keen to work with people across my

0:31:060:31:11

party in terms of spectrum of

opinion, and with other parties as

0:31:110:31:15

well to ensure we get the best

outcome.

Let me ask you briefly

0:31:150:31:20

before you go about the possible

culture of sexual harassment in the

0:31:200:31:24

House of commons and Theresa May

will write to the Speaker of the

0:31:240:31:29

House of Commons to make sure there

is a better way that people can

0:31:290:31:33

report sexual harassment in the

House of commons. Is that necessary?

0:31:330:31:37

A better procedure is needed. It is

sad it has taken this controversy to

0:31:370:31:43

push this forward. But there is a

problem with MPs who are individual

0:31:430:31:48

employers. If you work for an MP and

have a complaint against them,

0:31:480:31:53

essentially they are overseeing

their own complaints process. I

0:31:530:31:56

think a role for the House of

commons authorities in ensuring that

0:31:560:32:01

those complaints are properly dealt

with I think would be very helpful,

0:32:010:32:04

so I think the Prime Minister's

letter was a sensible move.

So you

0:32:040:32:09

think there is a culture of sexual

harassment in the House of commons?

0:32:090:32:13

I have not been subjected to it or

seen evidence of it, but obviously

0:32:130:32:19

there is anxiety and allegations

have made their way into the papers

0:32:190:32:23

and they should be treated

appropriately and properly

0:32:230:32:27

investigated.

Thank you for talking

to us.

0:32:270:32:28

Thank you for talking to us.

0:32:280:32:31

Next week the Lord Speaker's

committee publishes its final report

0:32:310:32:33

into reducing the size

of the House of Lords.

0:32:330:32:35

With over 800 members the upper

house is the second largest

0:32:350:32:38

legislative chamber in the world

after the National People's

0:32:380:32:40

Congress of China.

0:32:400:32:41

The report is expected to recommend

that new peerages should be

0:32:410:32:44

time-limited to 15 years and that

in the future political peerage

0:32:440:32:46

appointments will also be tied

to a party's election performance.

0:32:460:32:51

The government has been under

pressure to take action to cut

0:32:510:32:53

members of the unelected chamber,

where they are entitled

0:32:530:32:57

to claim an attendance

allowance of £300 a day.

0:32:570:33:00

And once again these expenses

have been in the news.

0:33:000:33:04

The Electoral Reform Society

discovered that 16 peers had claimed

0:33:040:33:06

around £400,000 without speaking

in any debates or submitting any

0:33:060:33:09

questions for an entire year.

0:33:090:33:13

One of the Lords to be

criticised was Digby Jones,

0:33:130:33:15

the crossbencher and former trade

minister, he hasn't spoken

0:33:150:33:19

in the Lords since April 2016

and has voted only seven times

0:33:190:33:22

during 2016 and 2017.

0:33:220:33:25

Yet he has claimed around

£15,000 in this period.

0:33:250:33:29

When asked what he does

in the House he said,

0:33:290:33:32

"I go in and I will invite for lunch

or meet with inward

0:33:320:33:34

investors into the country.

0:33:340:33:36

I fly the flag for Britain."

0:33:360:33:39

Well, we can speak now

to Lord Jones who joins us

0:33:390:33:42

from Stratford Upon Avon.

0:33:420:33:46

Thank you very much for talking to

us. You provide value for money in

0:33:460:33:51

the House of Lords do you think?

Definitely. I am, by the way, very

0:33:510:33:58

keen on reform. I want to see that

15 year tide. I would like to see a

0:33:580:34:02

time limit, an age limit of 75 or

80. I would like attendants

0:34:020:34:08

definitely define so the whole

public understood what people are

0:34:080:34:12

paying for and why. The £300, as a

crossbencher I get no support, and

0:34:120:34:19

nor do I want any, speech writing,

secretarial assistance, none of

0:34:190:34:27

that, and the £300 goes towards

that.

Whilst you are in there

0:34:270:34:31

because we will talk about the

reform of the Lords in general, but

0:34:310:34:36

in terms of you yourself, you say

you invite people in for lunch, is

0:34:360:34:39

it not possible for you to take part

in debates and votes and ask

0:34:390:34:43

questions at the same time?

Have you

ever listened to a debate in the

0:34:430:34:48

laws? Yes, many times.

Yes, many

times. You have to put your name

0:34:480:35:01

down in advance and you have to be

there for the whole debate.

You have

0:35:010:35:09

to be around when the vote is called

and you do not know when the book is

0:35:090:35:12

called, you have no idea when the

boat is going to be called.

This is

0:35:120:35:16

part of being a member of the House

of Lords and what it means. If you

0:35:160:35:22

are not prepared to wait or take

part in debates, why do you want to

0:35:220:35:26

be a member? It is possible to

resign from the House of Lords.

0:35:260:35:31

There are many things members of the

Lords do that does not relate to

0:35:310:35:35

parrot fashion following somebody

else, which I refuse to do, about

0:35:350:35:40

speaking to an empty chamber, or

indeed hanging on sometimes for

0:35:400:35:45

hours to vote. There are many other

things that you do. You quote me as

0:35:450:35:50

saying I will entertain at lunchtime

or show people around the House,

0:35:500:35:54

everything from schoolchildren to

inward investors. I will meet

0:35:540:35:58

ministers about big business issues

or educational issues, and at the

0:35:580:36:01

same time I will meet other members

of the Lords to get things moving.

0:36:010:36:06

None of that relates to going into

the House and getting on your hind

0:36:060:36:10

legs, although I do go in and sit

there and learn and listen to

0:36:100:36:14

others, which, if more people would

receive and not transmit, we might

0:36:140:36:20

get a better informed society. At

the same time many times I will go

0:36:200:36:24

after I have listened and I am

leaving and if I have not heard the

0:36:240:36:29

debate, I will not vote.

Voting is

an essential part of being part of a

0:36:290:36:35

legislative chamber. This is not

just an executive committee, it is a

0:36:350:36:40

legislature, surpassing that law is

essential, is it not?

Do you really

0:36:400:36:45

believe that an MP or a member of

the Lords who has not heard a moment

0:36:450:36:49

of the debate, who is then listening

to the Bell, walks in and does not

0:36:490:36:56

know which lobby, the whips tell

him, they have not heard the debate

0:36:560:37:00

and they do not know what they are

voting on and they go and do it?

0:37:000:37:05

That is your democracy? Voting seems

to be an essential part of this

0:37:050:37:11

chamber, and you have your ideas

about reforming the chamber. It

0:37:110:37:15

sounds as though you would reform

yourself out of it. You say people

0:37:150:37:19

who are not voting and who are not

taking part in debate should no

0:37:190:37:22

longer be members of the House.

I

did not say that. I said we ought to

0:37:220:37:29

redefine what attendance means and

then if you do not attend on the new

0:37:290:37:34

criteria, you do not have to come

ever again, we will give you your

0:37:340:37:37

wish. I agree attendance might mean

unless you speak, you are going.

0:37:370:37:43

Fair enough, if that is what is

agreed, yes. Sometimes I would speak

0:37:430:37:48

and sometimes I would not. If I did

not, then off I go. Similarly after

0:37:480:37:54

15 years, off you go. If you reach

75 or 80, off you go. Why do we have

0:37:540:38:00

92 members who are only there

because of daddy.

You are talking

0:38:000:38:06

about hereditary peers. You would

like to reduce the House to what

0:38:060:38:09

kind of number?

I would get it down

to 400.

You would get rid of half

0:38:090:38:15

the peers there at the moment? You

think you are active enough to

0:38:150:38:19

remain as one of the 400?

No, I said

that might well include me. Let's

0:38:190:38:27

get a set of criteria, let's push it

through, because the laws is losing

0:38:270:38:32

respect in the whole of the country

because there are too many and all

0:38:320:38:36

these things about what people pay

for. I bet most people think the

0:38:360:38:39

money you get is paid. It is not, it

is re-funding for all the things you

0:38:390:38:45

have to pay for yourself. But I

understand how respect has been lost

0:38:450:38:50

in society. Let's change it now.

Let's get it through and then, yes,

0:38:500:38:55

if you do not meet the criteria, you

have got to go and that includes me.

0:38:550:39:00

Lloyd Jones, thank you for talking

to us.

0:39:000:39:02

Lloyd Jones, thank

you for talking to us.

0:39:020:39:05

It's coming up to 11.40,

you're watching the Sunday Politics.

0:39:050:39:07

Coming up on the programme,

we'll be talking to the former

0:39:070:39:10

business minister and Conservative

MP Anna Soubry about the Brexit

0:39:100:39:12

negotiations and claims of sexual

harassment in Parliament.

0:39:120:39:22

In the East Midlands:

The sweet smell of success -

0:39:220:39:25

the region's sugar beet industry

is booming and looking forward

0:39:250:39:27

to life after Brexit.

0:39:270:39:31

We'll be finding out why Brexit

gives opportunity to send what comes

0:39:310:39:34

from fields in the East

Midlands around the world.

0:39:340:39:40

And it's a five billion pound

industry and growing,

0:39:400:39:42

but could the East Midlands make

even more from tourism?

0:39:420:39:45

It's been wonderful.

0:39:450:39:46

A great day out.

0:39:460:39:50

We visited two museums

and here at the King Richard Museum.

0:39:500:39:53

I think it's great.

0:39:530:39:54

It is actually my second day

being here because you get a

0:39:540:39:57

return ticket.

0:39:570:39:59

I just want to sweep

around this again.

0:39:590:40:04

Hello, I'm Marie Ashby my guests

this week - Maggie Throup

0:40:040:40:08

is the Conservative MP for Erewash

and Liz Kendall is

0:40:080:40:10

Labour's Leicester West MP.

0:40:100:40:11

Welcome both.

0:40:110:40:12

First an issue you're

both passionate about -

0:40:120:40:15

Social care and how we pay for it.

0:40:170:40:19

In fact in the House

of Commons this week,

0:40:190:40:21

you followed each other in a debate

called by Labour on the subject.

0:40:210:40:31

And Maggie Throup, you talked

about your 94 year old father

0:40:320:40:35

who's in a care home.

0:40:350:40:42

do.

So I've seen just what is needed

and what are the future and the

0:40:420:40:48

demands that will be around.

0:40:480:40:49

demands that will be around.

0:40:490:40:51

You praised the NHS

but were critical of successive

0:40:510:40:53

administrations for failing

to prepare our social care system

0:40:530:40:55

for an ageing population

with complex illnesses.

0:40:550:41:05

That's right. Today, people are

living through conditions they would

0:41:050:41:10

never have lived through before.

Heart attacks, strokes, cancer. And

0:41:100:41:15

their needs are changing so the NHS

has been a double-edged sword. And

0:41:150:41:18

we need to look at how we support

people through social care and we

0:41:180:41:22

really need to do something quite

dramatic to make those changes.

0:41:220:41:24

You want cross-party consensus on

this?

0:41:240:41:28

Yes. We saw what happened at the

last election with a conservative

0:41:280:41:35

proposals dubbed the dementia tax.

Labour's appraisals were called a

0:41:350:41:39

death tax and I can go on. It will

be older and disabled people who

0:41:390:41:47

suffer. If you want lasting change

we have to get cross-party

0:41:470:41:50

agreement. I am working with others

to call on the Prime Minister to set

0:41:500:41:57

up back party convention.

What is your Government planning to

0:41:570:42:00

do? We have people coming up shortly

and I'm pushing to bring health and

0:42:000:42:06

care together under one roof. They

are so intrinsically linked I don't

0:42:060:42:08

think we can separate it any longer.

We need to be bold and brave. We

0:42:080:42:13

need cross-party support. For too

many years and too many successive

0:42:130:42:16

governments people have failed to

make a decision and it is about time

0:42:160:42:20

that politicians did actually make a

decision for the future of our

0:42:200:42:23

elderly and the most vulnerable in

society.

0:42:230:42:25

We also need, clearly, an immediate

injection of cash in the Budget for

0:42:250:42:32

the NHS and social care. The

pressures are huge. Older people are

0:42:320:42:37

suffering and disabled people and

their family carers. We need that

0:42:370:42:39

immediate injection of cash and a

longer term cross arty approach.

0:42:390:42:43

It is not just cash but how to carry

out that Budget.

0:42:430:42:49

Money doesn't solve the problems.

But it is hugely needed. I am a

0:42:490:42:54

strong champion of reform. I agree,

one Budget, one commissioning body

0:42:540:42:57

for help and social care will better

meet people's needs.

0:42:570:43:00

In the last Budget the chance that

put £2 billion more into the pot. We

0:43:000:43:03

go on and on and on, we need reform

as well.

0:43:030:43:05

From funding social care to imagine

the quest for all of our MPs to work

0:43:050:43:11

together to get more money for the

whole region. East Midlands councils

0:43:110:43:16

which represent our local

authorities are looking at how much

0:43:160:43:19

money comes from central Government

and it seems that we're getting

0:43:190:43:22

something of a raw deal. If report

says that the East Midlands get that

0:43:220:43:27

lowest level of funding per head of

economic development, public

0:43:270:43:30

transport and on rail. The region is

the third levels for spending on

0:43:300:43:34

health, education, and overall

public spending. In fact, the

0:43:340:43:40

average public spending per head in

the East Midlands is £8,237. That is

0:43:400:43:44

more than £500 less than our

neighbours in the West Midlands. And

0:43:440:43:48

almost £1000 less than people living

in northern powerhouse areas. We

0:43:480:43:56

obviously have highlighted this

issue many, many times on this

0:43:560:43:58

programme. But looking at the stake

as it is pretty shocking.

0:43:580:44:02

The lowest funding per head of

economic development and public

0:44:020:44:04

transport just a start. It is a

problem. And I think sometimes

0:44:040:44:11

everybody blames each other. And I

think the East Midlands council

0:44:110:44:16

really need to communicate more. And

together with people like myself and

0:44:160:44:18

Liz so we can lobby the Government

fully. DHS to growth strategy that

0:44:180:44:26

was produced a couple of weeks ago,

I don't know about it until after it

0:44:260:44:29

was launched. Yet HS2 really affects

my constituency. If the council are

0:44:290:44:37

concerned about the funding want to

bring initially talking to people

0:44:370:44:39

like myself.

They've written to you asking for

0:44:390:44:43

your help, Berliners's help, have

you reply to them on that?

0:44:430:44:45

I have not reply directly

butterfingers two-way underling to

0:44:450:44:51

look at themselves as well what they

are doing to communicate with us.

0:44:510:44:54

To share what their vision is as

well so we can lobby on their

0:44:540:44:58

behalf. What do you say?

Will they get the help they are

0:44:580:45:04

asking for? I hope that they do. But

I'm not holding my breath. The

0:45:040:45:07

problem is not that they are not

communicate with us, the problem is

0:45:070:45:12

the Government does not have a

strategy to rebalance the economy

0:45:120:45:16

across the regions. Only London and

the south-east have seen their

0:45:160:45:18

economies go back to the crisis

levels.

0:45:180:45:24

We have a very geographically

unbalanced economy and very unequal

0:45:240:45:29

economy.

So what is the answer, then?

0:45:290:45:31

Firstly, we need investment in

infrastructure, and wrote, in

0:45:310:45:34

Braille. We need more investment in

skills, those things are crucial to

0:45:340:45:39

boosting productivity, which is

essential if the economy as a whole

0:45:390:45:41

is going to grow.

And if we're going to see some of

0:45:410:45:45

that growth come back into people's

earnings.

Theresa May says this is a

0:45:450:45:50

priority for her to rebalance the

economy.

0:45:500:45:51

But nothing has been done. Nothing

has been done since the financial

0:45:510:45:55

crash. My real concern is that we

are still too reliant on London and

0:45:550:45:59

the south-east and financial

services. We're not seeing that

0:45:590:46:01

growth and productivity coming back

up in the regions like these.

0:46:010:46:06

But sometimes we don't actually sing

and shout about what we got another

0:46:060:46:09

region.

You're supposed to be doing that. I

0:46:090:46:11

did that in Parliament all the time.

What Rolls-Royce, we've got Toyota,

0:46:110:46:17

we've got the research that comes

out of the universities in our area.

0:46:170:46:22

It will either softly to health

Minister with responsibility life

0:46:220:46:25

sciences.

We are committed to light sign

0:46:250:46:27

strategy as well. This is something

that affects all of us in every

0:46:270:46:31

aspect of our lives, the way we get

around, how we work, the kind of

0:46:310:46:34

jobs that we will have the future.

There has been so much talk over the

0:46:340:46:41

years of MPs working together on

this but nothing really seems to

0:46:410:46:44

have changed.

Actually we have been working

0:46:440:46:48

together on the electrification of

the Midland mainline, which the

0:46:480:46:50

Government started stopped, started

and stopped again. That is something

0:46:500:46:53

that is good to go and make a big

difference. We need greater

0:46:530:46:57

conductivity with East Midland

airport and we really need to

0:46:570:46:59

address this issue of funding in

skills as well. Our people are our

0:46:590:47:06

best assets. With huge leaders,

universities, businesses. But they

0:47:060:47:10

need support from Government, too.

And the problem is, unless the

0:47:100:47:13

Chancellor and the Prime Minister

understand how to rebalance the

0:47:130:47:18

economy, and what steps are needed,

we will not see that action.

0:47:180:47:22

Championing greatness alone is not

going to deliver.

0:47:220:47:24

We've got to work together. We

should not be talking down the East

0:47:240:47:30

Midlands, which were talking up the

East Midlands.

0:47:300:47:33

However you dress this up it does

seem we're getting a really raw deal

0:47:330:47:37

heel. £500 per head less than

neighbours in the West Midlands.

0:47:370:47:39

How can that be justified?

It cannot

be. What will it restrict me is we

0:47:390:47:46

have the Midlands in June and it is

all talking about the West Midlands.

0:47:460:47:49

Let's talk about the East Midlands.

Let's shout and go and fight for

0:47:490:47:52

that money. Shafting alone isn't

going to work. -- shouting alone is

0:47:520:47:58

not going to work. I do not believe

the Government has a strategy for

0:47:580:48:02

rebalancing the economy and dealing

with the biggest problem that we've

0:48:020:48:05

got, which is wage stagnation. The

British economy is not delivering

0:48:050:48:09

rising earnings for the majority of

the population. Until we grasp that

0:48:090:48:12

we will never see the economy

increase.

0:48:120:48:16

Make the investment in the roads and

railways. We are having investment

0:48:160:48:22

as well. Just look at my

constituency. We've got a new

0:48:220:48:25

railway station. There is continuing

lobbying from my predecessor and I

0:48:250:48:32

continued that. The County Council

would have let it die but I was

0:48:320:48:35

determined to get that.

The score by the East Midlands

0:48:350:48:39

councils is a real court action for

urgent action, will they see that

0:48:390:48:42

happen?

We need to get together. We need to

0:48:420:48:44

see what we can each do to work

together to find out what needs to

0:48:440:48:49

be working. When reports put in

front of us that actually they're

0:48:490:48:55

not taking the local knowledge of

what would work best to provide

0:48:550:49:02

instruction about HS2, that is

concerning.

0:49:020:49:04

You will be talking to the smooth

and councils? No reason why not.

0:49:040:49:07

Thank you.

0:49:070:49:09

And now another plea

for the region to work together -

0:49:090:49:11

this time on Tourism.

0:49:110:49:12

The East Midlands has

just had a record year.

0:49:120:49:15

The weak pound is helping boost

visitor numbers and Derbyshire has

0:49:150:49:17

become the first county

in the region to earn more

0:49:170:49:20

than two billion pounds

a year from tourists.

0:49:200:49:22

But are we making the most of our

world famous venues and history?

0:49:220:49:25

Alex Hamilton has been finding out.

0:49:250:49:29

There's no shortage of tourists in

the East Midlands. Visitors are

0:49:290:49:31

pouring in to Hardwick Hall. History

is a big attraction here in the

0:49:310:49:38

shape of the best of Hardwick, the

16th century serial widow who built

0:49:380:49:41

a hawk from a fortune amassed from a

series of marriages. And tourism is

0:49:410:49:46

big business in the East Midlands.

It is worth more than £2 billion to

0:49:460:49:52

Derbyshire alone. As Leicestershire

and Nottinghamshire are not too far

0:49:520:49:55

behind. And it's not just here.

Councils across the region reckon we

0:49:550:50:00

have seen 100 million visitors this

year.

0:50:000:50:03

So where are the coming from? People

are coming from all postcodes across

0:50:030:50:06

the country but also, hard look as

good an international collection and

0:50:060:50:09

so we see quite a lot of

international visitors from all

0:50:090:50:12

areas across the world coming to see

us to discover more about our story

0:50:120:50:15

here. We have Christmas opening

coming up soon.

0:50:150:50:21

We'll see a lot more local audience.

Derbyshire may top the table locally

0:50:210:50:26

in terms of the value of tourism to

its local economy. But it is

0:50:260:50:29

Leicester and Leicestershire that is

the rest of the last year, figures

0:50:290:50:33

are up 5%, perhaps some of the other

cities will start looking for a king

0:50:330:50:38

under their car park.

What we have seen as investors with

0:50:380:50:41

a lot more confidence in the city

and county. Particularly in new

0:50:410:50:45

hotels, for example. We will get new

hotels, 500 bed spaces in the next

0:50:450:50:50

few years.

That is unprecedented for Leicester

0:50:500:50:52

and a sign of confidence in the

future. It is clear there is a lot

0:50:520:50:56

to draw tourists to the East

Midlands.

0:50:560:50:58

Whether they are local, national or

international visitors. We come from

0:50:580:51:00

Hong Kong to visit our son in

Nottingham University. He is

0:51:000:51:06

studying today and then we come over

here to a nearby city to have a look

0:51:060:51:12

at Leicester.

It been wonderful. A great day out.

0:51:120:51:14

We visited two museums and here at

the King Richard Museum.

0:51:140:51:19

I figured as great. It is actually

my second day being here because you

0:51:190:51:22

get a return ticket. I just want to

sleep around this again. It's really

0:51:220:51:27

interesting.

The ones who come here may be happy

0:51:270:51:33

but our local council is missing a

trick. Could Robin Hood helped

0:51:330:51:35

Leicester's famous King Richard hit

new targets? And could the National

0:51:350:51:43

space Centre propel the stately

homes to new heights? The leader of

0:51:430:51:46

Derbyshire County Council reckons

working together to could boost

0:51:460:51:50

numbers still further.

We can do so much more by working

0:51:500:51:53

with the East Midlands Airport. They

arrived for international tourists

0:51:530:51:56

to tourists to come to this region

and it is about how we disperse

0:51:560:51:59

those tourists across the region.

And working together to make sure

0:51:590:52:03

that we are targeting places like

London, for example. The vast

0:52:030:52:07

majority of tourists coming. How do

we disperse those out of London and

0:52:070:52:10

into the East Midlands. When we got

to work together quite closely

0:52:100:52:13

around that to make sure that

happens.

0:52:130:52:16

Whatever the outcome of Brexit come

off the sun visitors now are on the

0:52:160:52:19

up.

0:52:190:52:19

up.

0:52:190:52:23

A positive outlook there but could

we be doing more to attract more

0:52:230:52:26

visitors?

I think we could. I think

0:52:260:52:32

Derbyshire, particularly, that of

the area I know really well. We have

0:52:320:52:35

something plastic countryside but

also some other places. A lot of

0:52:350:52:38

museums, celebrating the standing

ironworks and quite a lot of our

0:52:380:52:43

history. We have a fantastic theatre

in Nuneaton and we attracted over

0:52:430:52:50

15,000 visitors to the National

waterways Festival. It was one of

0:52:500:52:55

the hot weekend in August and people

couldn't really see Derbyshire and

0:52:550:52:57

the area.

It was beautiful, as you say. Can

0:52:570:53:02

you really say, as Barry Lewis was

saying there from the County

0:53:020:53:05

Council, that people will come up

from London to go to some of the

0:53:050:53:09

places you have been talking about?

London tourists go there for very

0:53:090:53:13

specific reasons, don't they? Is it

a capital in all its attractions.

0:53:130:53:18

She really targeting London

tourists? Absolutely we should be.

0:53:180:53:22

Offer to the third we've also got a

great comedy festival in Leicester,

0:53:220:53:25

we need to be able to promote our

work. I am concerned that some cuts

0:53:250:53:28

the local council has Howard will

reduce the amount we will spend on

0:53:280:53:35

marketing, the fantastic tourist

attractions we have here. And we go

0:53:350:53:38

back to the previous discussion

about making sure we have the road

0:53:380:53:41

and rail infrastructure to link us

up. But I think that is absolutely

0:53:410:53:44

right. To provide a package to

attract Londoners to our region to

0:53:440:53:49

see what fantastic things we've got,

and it's really important.

0:53:490:53:52

Do you think that could happen? I

don't see why not. We have the

0:53:520:53:55

mechanisms now. We can use the

Internet as I know a lot of people

0:53:550:53:58

go from London's to Stratford, at

York. And through Derbyshire to do

0:53:580:54:04

that transition.

Let's make sure they can stop here

0:54:040:54:07

as well. Leicester is really reaping

the rewards, isn't it?

0:54:070:54:12

It has been fantastic. I think

there's more that we can do in

0:54:120:54:14

future and I hope campaigners around

the world, that's our ambition.

0:54:140:54:20

Next: As Brexit continues

to dominate the national agenda,

0:54:200:54:22

many businesses are wondering

what life outside the

0:54:220:54:24

European Union will look like.

0:54:240:54:25

Well one East Midlands industry

is getting a glimpse -

0:54:250:54:29

sugar beet producers have no quotas,

and no fixed prices to contend

0:54:290:54:31

with after they were scrapped

by the EU at the beginning

0:54:310:54:34

of this month.

0:54:340:54:35

So how will they cope and what does

it tell us about the future

0:54:350:54:39

for other sectors after we leave?

0:54:390:54:40

Here's our Political

Editor Tony Roe.

0:54:400:54:48

From soil in the East Midlands to

sugar bag, six out of ten adults are

0:54:480:54:51

oblivious to the fact that we

produce sugar in Britain. Six of

0:54:510:54:58

these, and they are quite heavy,

produce one bag of sugar. 60% of the

0:54:580:55:02

sugar we use comes from home grown

sugar beet.

0:55:020:55:04

For our farmers, it is a lifeline.

Sugar beet for us is an important

0:55:040:55:07

crop because we're careful how we

grow the sugar, and the sugar beet,

0:55:070:55:14

we actually make some decent money.

It is usually one of our better

0:55:140:55:17

paying crops on the farm. This field

is 11 miles from the British sugar

0:55:170:55:23

plant. The average distance from the

old factory is 28 miles. For almost

0:55:230:55:28

50 years, the EU quota system has

limited what farmers can grow. That

0:55:280:55:32

has ended. It is news for British

Sugar, which processes 10,000 times

0:55:320:55:35

a day here.

When we had the quota system up to

0:55:350:55:40

October of this year we were

restricted in terms of how much we

0:55:400:55:42

could produce and sell.

And we were restricted from selling

0:55:420:55:48

on to the world market. And after

Brexit they believe they will be

0:55:480:55:50

able to be competitive on those

world markets as farmers yield per

0:55:500:55:55

acre is on the up, too.

We see it as an opportunity to grow

0:55:550:55:59

as a business. We are a really

efficient business and we see the

0:55:590:56:03

industry growing by up to 50%

compared with last year. We have

0:56:030:56:08

already grown by 30% this year, and

we could go beyond that, working

0:56:080:56:12

closely with our progress.

I can see us cutting down on the

0:56:120:56:15

acreage and growing more sugar beet

because the soil type we have suits

0:56:150:56:19

it. We grow good crops of sugar beet

and we lifted early and are able to

0:56:190:56:24

get a good week in after that.

These remain uncertain times for

0:56:240:56:27

farmers. There is a real fear that a

vote in Brussels this year failing

0:56:270:56:30

to approve the use a widely used

chemical will be damaging for the

0:56:300:56:33

industry.

Sign should dictate whether we can

0:56:330:56:37

use these products are not. And at

the moment, with this issue, it is

0:56:370:56:42

politics that is dictating it.

Playing with people's livelihoods,

0:56:420:56:46

displaying with genuine safe food

production and politics should not

0:56:460:56:50

have that amount of influence.

Then there is the Government push to

0:56:500:56:52

wean us off sugar treats. Does it

worry the industry? Not as much as

0:56:520:57:00

you would expect. Demand not

dropping, it is used in far more

0:57:000:57:02

than fizzy drinks.

0:57:020:57:03

than fizzy drinks.

0:57:030:57:06

It sounds confident of us live

outside the EU perhaps there is a

0:57:060:57:09

message therefore other businesses?

I think they are a highly efficient

0:57:090:57:15

and productive company. They will be

looking to export across the world

0:57:150:57:19

and they need all the support that

they can get in doing that but I do

0:57:190:57:23

know many other farmers are worried

about what will happen when we leave

0:57:230:57:29

the EU, what will happen to tariffs

on their goods. If we end up with no

0:57:290:57:35

deal, that is a 5% tariff on beef,

6% on dairy. Our food and doing

0:57:350:57:44

manufacturers are also concerned

about that. So it is an excellent

0:57:440:57:48

success story but there's nothing

stopping from exporting before we

0:57:480:57:50

even leave the EU. But there are

real worries, if we are out of the

0:57:500:57:56

single market and the customs union,

the NFU says it will be an absolute

0:57:560:58:00

disaster. And if you look at the

wider industries, across the East

0:58:000:58:06

Midlands, car manufacturing, acute

concern that there is no deal. We

0:58:060:58:08

had Toyota this week urging the

Government to lift the fog of

0:58:080:58:15

uncertainty. So what businesses want

a certainty. They wanted transition

0:58:150:58:18

deal and I think the Government

should be committing to one that is

0:58:180:58:20

keeping us in the single market and

the customs union and the very least

0:58:200:58:28

for the transition.

There is uncertainty out there.

0:58:280:58:30

There is. We will not do well in

negotiations in public. That is not

0:58:300:58:33

the way we conduct business at all.

What we've seen here with the sugar

0:58:330:58:38

beet industry is really good news

and it shows that there is life

0:58:380:58:42

outside of the EU. What I think we

do need to look at is the domestic

0:58:420:58:46

agricultural policy. So we can get

everything in place over the next

0:58:460:58:49

couple of years and the transition

period as well. The Prime Minister

0:58:490:58:51

has committed to a transition

period.

0:58:510:58:56

You mentioned the industry as well,

it is looking at it set by sector.

0:58:560:59:05

We have the strategy and it will be

on a sector by sector basis.

0:59:050:59:09

Not knowing what radio we're going

to get us a real problem. On Monday,

0:59:090:59:15

the Prime Minister told MPs there

will not be a transition deal until

0:59:150:59:17

the future trade deal has been

agreed which means there will be a

0:59:170:59:21

complete and utter cliff edge.

Businesses cannot wait. They need to

0:59:210:59:24

make decisions by the end of this

year or early next year. It is... A

0:59:240:59:31

complete shambles on Brexit this

week from the Prime Minister. A

0:59:310:59:34

complete lack of clarity on the

transition deal and whether

0:59:340:59:36

Parliament will have the final say

and it is not good enough.

0:59:360:59:40

It is quite clear.

The majority of people voted for

0:59:400:59:42

Brexit. No one is denying that.

That's not even...

0:59:420:59:51

That is not even in question. What

about the transition deal? Obviously

0:59:510:59:54

we know that the 29th of March 2019

of the day we will leave the EU. But

0:59:540:59:59

what the Prime Minister has been

quite clear about in her speech is

0:59:591:00:02

there will be a transition period

after that. Businesses can adapt to

1:00:021:00:08

the changes.

The whole point about the transition

1:00:081:00:10

deal is they know now. Businesses

need to take decisions now about

1:00:101:00:13

whether they can best, where they

can be based, what will happen to

1:00:131:00:16

their staff. They cannot wait. The

divisions within the Tory party have

1:00:161:00:23

absolutely... Listen, the Tory party

is completely split.

1:00:231:00:29

Let's not talk about it. Why not? We

need to talk about it. This is

1:00:291:00:32

because of delays.

The future of our country is about

1:00:321:00:35

getting a good deal from the EU so

we can move and we can export, we

1:00:351:00:41

can take...

Waiting to find out what that deal

1:00:411:00:48

will be.

We will not start those talks are

1:00:481:00:50

we? Until December. Thank you both.

1:00:501:00:52

Thank you both.

1:00:521:00:53

Time now to catch up with some

of the other political

1:00:531:00:55

stories of the week -

here's Tony, with 60 seconds.

1:00:551:00:58

The plight of an elite skater

from Nottingham who can't

1:00:581:01:00

use his sport towards a GCSE

is to be raised in Parliament.

1:01:001:01:03

He is a speed skater,

but his sport is not on

1:01:031:01:06

the syllabus.

1:01:061:01:07

His MP is to hold a debate

calling for all Olympic

1:01:071:01:10

sports to be included.

1:01:101:01:11

People studying to teach

modern languages or

1:01:111:01:12

sciences in Derby will get

their student loans repaid.

1:01:121:01:12

People studying to teach

modern languages or

1:01:151:01:17

sciences in Derby will get

their student loans repaid.

1:01:171:01:19

The Education Secretary

said it was to boost

1:01:191:01:21

recruitment to teachers.

1:01:211:01:23

Derby is one of ten

opportunity zones across

1:01:231:01:26

the country where money is to be

spent improving social mobility.

1:01:261:01:31

Plans to transform the site of one

of the region's last deep pit coal

1:01:311:01:34

mines have been unveiled.

1:01:341:01:36

The colliery in north

Nottinghamshire

1:01:361:01:39

closed last year.

1:01:391:01:41

Developers want to build 800

houses as well as school,

1:01:411:01:44

business premises

and a country park.

1:01:441:01:45

Rough justice for Nottingham North

MP Alex Norris in the

1:01:451:01:47

parliamentary dog of

the year competition.

1:01:471:01:49

His two border colleagues won

the popular vote, but

1:01:491:01:51

were pipped to the post by Rocky,

belonging to Labour colleague Tracy

1:01:511:01:54

Brogan.

1:01:541:02:04

That's the Sunday Politics

in the East Midlands,

1:02:041:02:06

thanks to Liz Kendall

and Maggie Throup for

1:02:061:02:08

being this week's guests.

1:02:081:02:09

Time now to hand you

back to Sarah Smith.

1:02:091:02:15

Ellie Reeves and Bob Blackman.

1:02:151:02:16

With that, it's back to Sarah.

1:02:161:02:26

Now, the much anticipated

EU Withdrawal Bill,

1:02:261:02:28

which will transfer EU law into UK

law in preparation for Brexit,

1:02:281:02:32

is expected to be debated

by MPs later next month.

1:02:321:02:36

Critics have called it a "power

grab" as it introduces so-called

1:02:361:02:39

Henry VIII powers for Whitehall

to amend some laws without

1:02:391:02:42

consulting parliament,

and it faces fierce resistance

1:02:421:02:46

from opposition parties

as well as many on the government's

1:02:461:02:49

own backbenches, with 300 amendments

and 54 new clauses tabled on it.

1:02:491:02:54

We're joined now by the Conservative

MP Anna Soubry who has been a strong

1:02:541:02:57

critic of the legislation.

1:02:571:03:02

Thank you very much for joining us.

Before we talk about the withdrawal

1:03:021:03:06

bill, I would like to bring up with

you that the Prime Minister has just

1:03:061:03:11

sent a letter to the Commons Speaker

John Bercow asking for an

1:03:111:03:15

independent body to be established

to investigate claims of sexual

1:03:151:03:20

harassment in Parliament. What are

your thoughts on that?

A very good

1:03:201:03:24

idea, sounds like a great deal of

common sense. I had already this

1:03:241:03:29

morning sent a request to the

speaker asking for an urgent

1:03:291:03:32

statement from the Leader of the

House as to what could now be done

1:03:321:03:36

to make sure that any complaints

actually against anybody working in

1:03:361:03:42

Parliament, to extend the

protections that workers throughout

1:03:421:03:44

the rest of businesses and in other

workplaces have, they should now be

1:03:441:03:49

extended into Parliament and asking

for an urgent statement from the

1:03:491:03:53

leader. Clearly the PM is well onto

this and it is a good idea. We have

1:03:531:03:58

to make sure everybody who works in

Parliament enjoys exactly the same

1:03:581:04:02

protections as other workers, so I

welcome this.

This should maybe have

1:04:021:04:07

happened a long time ago. We hear

stories of harassment that has been

1:04:071:04:11

going on for decades, but until now

it has been difficult to work out

1:04:111:04:15

who you could complain to about it.

It is my understanding that my Chief

1:04:151:04:20

Whip and the previous deputy Chief

Whip, and Milton, shared that view

1:04:201:04:25

and have shared that view for some

time but found it difficult to get

1:04:251:04:30

all the agreement necessary. Anyway,

we are where we are and we are

1:04:301:04:34

making that progress, but

1:04:341:04:46

my Chief Whip and the previous

deputy Chief Whip wanted this done

1:04:461:04:49

some time ago.

That is an

interesting point. Let's move on to

1:04:491:04:51

the much anticipated EU withdrawal

bill which will finally be debated.

1:04:511:04:53

You have put your name to an

amendment which is calling for a

1:04:531:04:56

vote on the final agreement in

essence, do you really believe that

1:04:561:04:58

that will be a meaningful both

offered to the Commons?

Yes, if you

1:04:581:05:02

look at the terms of the amendment,

it would deliver exactly that. It

1:05:021:05:07

would give members of Parliament the

opportunity to debated and voted on

1:05:071:05:12

it. It would be an effective piece

of legislation and would go through

1:05:121:05:16

both houses and should be done. One

of the problems with this process is

1:05:161:05:22

that Parliament has been excluded

from the sort of debate and

1:05:221:05:26

decisions that would have enabled

the government to move forward in

1:05:261:05:31

progress and form a consensus so we

get the very best Brexit deal.

We

1:05:311:05:41

have been excluded, that has been

wrong in my view, but by the end we

1:05:411:05:44

should not be excluded. The

government have made it clear that

1:05:441:05:46

whilst there may well be a boat if

you win on this amendment, it will

1:05:461:05:49

be a take it or leave it vote. This

is a deal you should accept, or

1:05:491:05:54

there will be no deal.

If you look

at the amendment we put forward

1:05:541:06:01

there will be other alternatives.

This is all hypothetical because we

1:06:011:06:04

want a good deal and it is difficult

to see that the government would not

1:06:041:06:08

bring a good deal to the House in

any event. But this is hypothetical,

1:06:081:06:13

it would mean Parliament would say

to government, go back and seek an

1:06:131:06:19

extension as we know it is there in

Article 50. It is perfectly possible

1:06:191:06:24

with the agreement of the other

members of the EU to seek an

1:06:241:06:29

extension so we continue the

negotiations and we get a deal that

1:06:291:06:33

is good for our country. It keeps

all options open and that is the

1:06:331:06:37

most important thing.

How many

Conservative MPs really would take

1:06:371:06:42

that option in those circumstances?

It is only if you get enough votes

1:06:421:06:47

that you would be able to ask the

government to go back and

1:06:471:06:50

re-negotiate.

1:06:501:07:00

Have you for that?

For give me, but

you are jumping way down the line. I

1:07:031:07:06

am talking about an amendment that

keeps the options open. I am not

1:07:061:07:09

speculating as to what would happen,

I am not going there, it is far too

1:07:091:07:12

speculative. Let's get this bill in

good shape. The principle of this

1:07:121:07:16

bill is right and we need to put

into British domestic law existing

1:07:161:07:21

EU laws and regulations into our

substantive law. We all agree that

1:07:211:07:26

must happen. It is the means by

which we do it that causes problems

1:07:261:07:31

and we have this argument and debate

about what we call the endgame.

I am

1:07:311:07:38

sure we will talk about this many

more times before we get to that

1:07:381:07:41

vote. I will turn to our panel of

political experts. Listening to the

1:07:411:07:47

tone of what the remainders are

trying to achieve with the EU

1:07:471:07:53

withdrawal bill, will be achieved?

You can hear that tussled there,

1:07:531:07:58

they want the maximum space and room

for Parliament to have a say. But

1:07:581:08:02

they have to be careful. The reason

is that clock is ticking and if you

1:08:021:08:09

have a situation which may seem to

be more interested in finding

1:08:091:08:15

different things to object to and

saying no to, it is not getting a

1:08:151:08:19

good deal and it does not look good

for the remainders in this argument

1:08:191:08:23

and they will have to come through

with their proposals. I do not mind

1:08:231:08:28

Parliament saying it should have a

big say, but what do you do if

1:08:281:08:31

Parliament says this is not good

enough? The government must simply

1:08:311:08:37

say, I am sorry we have run out of

time. The 27 will say they cannot be

1:08:371:08:43

bothered to have another round

either. They have to be strong, but

1:08:431:08:47

realistic about what their role in

this is.

Do you think the people

1:08:471:08:51

putting this amendment who say they

want a binding vote in parliament

1:08:511:08:56

are doing it because they think

Parliament should have a say or

1:08:561:09:00

because they want to obstruct it?

They do not think people should have

1:09:001:09:04

a say in the first place, they think

people got it wrong, so they need

1:09:041:09:09

more clever people than the voters

to have final say.

Or they believed

1:09:091:09:16

taking back control means Parliament

should have the final say.

1:09:161:09:20

Parliament said they would like to

give that decision back to the

1:09:201:09:23

people. This is the issue. It seems

to me that people like Anna Soubry

1:09:231:09:29

are trying to delay of the

transition period a bit longer.

1:09:291:09:33

These negotiations will take as long

as they have got. The EU will take

1:09:331:09:38

it to the wire and if we do not get

a decent deal, and one of the

1:09:381:09:46

reasons is the level of incompetence

on this government's part I have to

1:09:461:09:49

say and the other one will be the

people who want to remain

1:09:491:09:54

undermining them. They undermined

the government at every single stage

1:09:541:10:00

and they undermine Britain's

interests.

It is the timing of all

1:10:001:10:03

of this that is crucial and whether

the government can get a deal in

1:10:031:10:07

time.

There will be a meaningful

vote, whether it is an shined in

1:10:071:10:13

legislation or not, there cannot be

an historic development as big as

1:10:131:10:18

this without Parliament having a

meaningful vote. I meaningful,

1:10:181:10:23

having the power to either stop it

or endorse it. You cannot have a

1:10:231:10:28

government doing something like this

with no vote in the House of

1:10:281:10:30

commons. When you say it will go to

the last minute I completely agree,

1:10:301:10:38

but last-minute in reality means

next summer. It has got to get

1:10:381:10:42

through the European Parliament and

the Westminster Parliament and quite

1:10:421:10:46

a few others as well.

The trouble

with invoking Parliament is if it is

1:10:461:10:53

driven solely by remain, I would

love to say what people in the

1:10:531:10:58

league side think. I disagree with

Julia, I do not think you could say

1:10:581:11:05

people had their say and the terms

with which we leave are left open

1:11:051:11:09

and only the government should have

a say in it, Parliament clearly

1:11:091:11:12

should have a say in it.

Do we want

a good deal or not?

It does not mean

1:11:121:11:21

anything if you do not do it by next

summer I suggest.

Does that leave

1:11:211:11:27

Parliament any room for changing the

deal or is it simply take it or

1:11:271:11:31

leave it?

It will have to have that

rule because it cannot simply be

1:11:311:11:36

another of these binary votes were

you accept the deal or no Deal.

1:11:361:11:39

There has to be some space.

How can

a few MPs in the House of Commons

1:11:391:11:45

change a deal that has been agreed

by the member states?

Because of the

1:11:451:11:51

sequence, a huge if by the way, if

they vote down the deal that the

1:11:511:11:56

government has negotiated, the

government will have to re-negotiate

1:11:561:11:59

or there will have to be an

election. This will be a moment of

1:11:591:12:03

huge crisis, our government not

getting through its much topped

1:12:031:12:06

about...

It is a mini Catalonia.

I

think it would be as big as

1:12:061:12:16

Catalonia, but with the implication

that there would have to be a

1:12:161:12:18

practical change in the deal because

if Parliament has not supported

1:12:181:12:22

it...

It is a remain fantasy that

this deal can be put off and off

1:12:221:12:28

until they get something that is as

close to remaining as they can

1:12:281:12:32

possibly get. I am very much for

trying to get the best and avoiding

1:12:321:12:37

the worst, but there is an unreality

to that position if you keep trying

1:12:371:12:44

to do it again and again, at some

point people will want clarity.

I

1:12:441:12:50

labour putting forward a realistic

proposition?

I thought Hilary Benn

1:12:501:12:55

was very realistic this morning, I

wish he was more in the driving seat

1:12:551:13:00

of Labour policy. He made clear

where he disagreed and he made clear

1:13:001:13:05

where he thought the negotiations

had gone off track or were bogged

1:13:051:13:08

down. I worry a bit about the Labour

position being incoherent, but that

1:13:081:13:16

is kept that way by the present

leadership because as far as they

1:13:161:13:20

are concerned the government is

suffering enough, why should they

1:13:201:13:24

have a position? Hilary Benn said we

needed to have clarity about the

1:13:241:13:29

timetable. It is like reading an

insurance contract and finding the

1:13:291:13:33

bit where you might get away with

it. That is not a policy.

1:13:331:13:36

That is not a policy.

1:13:361:13:38

That's all for today.

1:13:381:13:40

Join me again next Sunday

at 11 here on BBC One.

1:13:401:13:42

Until then, bye bye.

1:13:421:13:47

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