05/11/2017 Sunday Politics East Midlands

Good morning, everyone,

and welcome to the Sunday Politics.

I'm Sarah Smith.

And this is your guide to everything

that's happening in the world

of politics this Sunday morning.

On today's show:

Theresa May's right-hand man

Damian Green has denied claims that

police found pornography

on a computer in his office in 2008.

He says the allegations by a former

police chief are "political smears."

With claims of sexual harassment

at Westminster growing by the day,

can either Theresa May

or Jeremy Corbyn do anything to get

to grips with a scandal

threatening to engulf

the entire political class?

We'll ask a minister and senior

member of the Shadow Cabinet.

And some on the left of politics

have been gathering to mark 100

In

have been gathering to mark 100

In the

have been gathering to mark 100

In the East

have been gathering to mark 100

In the East Midlands:

have been gathering to mark 100

In the East Midlands: Child

have been gathering to mark 100

In the East Midlands: Child sex

have been gathering to mark 100

In the East Midlands: Child sex

abuse charges dropped. The

politician be building his career.

So there's plenty of

explosive political news

to get you in the mood

for bonfire night -

and with me as usual,

three journalists who know quite

a bit about parliamentary plots -

if rather less about

gunpowder and treason.

It's Tom Newton Dunn,

Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards.

So what are the big political

stories making the news this Sunday?

Well, the papers are brimming

with further allegations against MPs

in the sexual harassment scandal,

which according to one newspaper has

left Westminster frozen in fear.

First Secretary of State Damian

Green, already under

investigation over allegations -

which he strongly denies -

of propositioning a female activist,

is the subject of new claims that

police discovered pornography

on a computer in his Westminster

office in 2008.

Mr Green denies the allegation,

made by former senior

police officer Bob Quick,

saying it is "completely untrue,"

and adding that he is the victim

of disreputable "political smears."

Michael Fallon, who resigned

as Defence Secretary this week

over his past behaviour,

is also subject to fresh claims

he lunged at a female journalist

in 2003 after a lunch.

Labour is facing questions

over its handling of sexual

misconduct allegations.

This morning Shadow Cabinet minister

Dawn Butler refused to be drawn

on whether Jeremy Corbyn knew

about alleged misconduct by MP

Kelvin Hopkins when he was promoted

to the Shadow Cabinet.

And there is a reminder that normal

political life goes on,

with reports that the Cabinet has

agreed to put housing at the heart

of Philip Hammond's upcoming Budget.

Well, let's hear from

Home Secretary Amber Rudd now -

she was on the Andrew Marr Show

earlier talking about the claims

against her Cabinet colleague Damian

Green.

Absolutely not. I think it is

something that will take place in

terms of clearing out Westminster of

that sort of behaviour, and I think

that Westminster afterwards,

including the Government, will be

better for it. When we are confident

that men and women can work any

respectful environment and people on

the receiving end of abuse of power

can come forward. That will be a

positive thing.

Let's see what our panel make of

this fairly explosive week. Good

morning to all of you. Starting with

you, Steve. Not a party political

issue but the Tories are in

Government. How much harder for them

is it an Labour?

Always harder when

you are in Government because it

makes governing almost impossible.

And the wider context is a Prime

Minister who lost her overall

majority a few months ago and

actually that is the context of

everything. When you are having to

deal with the scandal of such

unpredictability, where the

terms are so imprecise, it is a

"lunge", a resignation issue, to use

that term, and nightmare. I don't

think it is fatal. Scandals rarely

bring down governments, but it makes

governing for Theresa May a form of

political health.

Isabel Oakeshott,

Damian Green has denied all

allegations made against him, but

there are more this morning. He is

being investigated by the Cabinet

Office at the moment. If Theresa May

were to effectively lose her Deputy

Prime Minister, has serious without

the?

I think very serious indeed. I

think it is very significant and

strange he was not defended in the

Home Secretary Amber Rudd in that

clip we saw today, she didn't say I

am certain he will survive, and I am

beginning to feel that Damian may

not survive this. We don't know

whether it is the last of the

allegations that may come out in

relation to him. It seems to me that

the allegations were previously of a

rather minor order, but this seems

to have escalated. And I think one

of the big problems for Theresa May,

and there are the many at the

moment, for months we have been

saying that this Government has no

bandwidth to do anything except

Brexit and right now she can't even

do Brexit. What is the point of it

all?

It is important to make clear

not only that Damian Green denies

all of these allegations, but the

computer mentioned was in a shared

office so there is no reason it

would definitely be his

# No guarantee it would definitely

be his. But we have had two MPs on

television this morning, Anna

Soubry, saying he should stand down.

There is an awful lot going on here.

It is not just a pretty awful sexual

harassment scandal. There are also

without a doubt MPs, police

officers, going about settling

scores. For me I have to say for our

pretty discredited police officer

Bob Quick, to make accusations

against serving Cabinet minister, to

suggest he should go for extreme

pornography on computers he may or

may not have known, it may be

extremely distasteful but it is

alarming for democracy to have

ex-police officers like this coming

in and trying to play with

democracy. Some politicians are also

meeting claims, some for the right

reasons to get the allegations out

there and so on but others for their

own agendas and all of this puts the

Prime Minister in an unbelievably

hard situation. I agree with Steve

and Isabel, she desperately needs

two show leadership in all this, but

every way she could turn there are

incredible downfalls, people blaming

her for trying to get to the bottom

of all this. It is very people who

she is relying on for her

leadership, the very Tory MPs the

support she can't lose.

It is not

just the Tory party and of course

Jeremy Corbyn will be making a

speech later today where this will

inevitably and there are accusations

about how the senior leadership in

the Labour Party have handled this.

What about that situation?

Yes, but

the Government is much harder

because you are meant to be doing

10,000 other things at the same

time. This is about a deregulated

work environment. For all those who

say, I hate the way Britain is too

regulated, this is what happens in a

deregulated work environment. The

House of Commons has no HR or

whatever, MPs, advisors, so, MPs

actually don't have much power but

they do have power over who the

point and how to treat them. I think

this is the way forward in terms of

the practical outcome, but it is

across the political spectrum.

But

it is unclear what it will be. Can

the party sort this out?

I'm not

sure I entirely agree, Steve, you

cannot regulate all human

interaction and a lot of these

stories have been about interactions

between politicians and journalists

alike, who have gone out for lunch,

chosen to drink, presumably to

create an informal atmosphere, and

at what point is a step towards

somebody to say goodbye, a peck on

the cheek or whatever, a lunge? You

can't regulate that sort of thing.

Throughout the programme will come

back to some of these things and how

they might be regulated.

Now, the Home Secretary has

also today been talking

about what she calls the "moral

duty" of social media companies

to stop child sexual exploitation,

ahead of a meeting with her US

counterparts this week.

We're joined now by the Home Office

minister Sarah Newton -

she's in our Truro studio.

Thanks very much for coming in to

speak the first night. I want to

talk to you about the Government's

efforts to tackle child pornography,

but let's pick up on some of the

sexual harassment issues at

Westminster first. Two of your

parliamentary colleagues this

morning saying they think the first

Secretary of State Damian Green

should step down whilst being

investigated. Do you agree?

Look, he

has vigorously denied these

accusations, and the Cabinet Office

is investigating these accusations,

so we do have processes for when

ministers have these accusations

made against them so they are

properly investigated. And that is

what is going on at the moment.

Is

that process people can be confident

in? He is effectively being

investigated by Jeremy Heywood, one

of his colleagues.

This is a tried

and tested process that has stood

the test of time, and it is

important...

Has it? Surely what we

are learning is it has not stood the

test of time and that in fact

allegations like this have been

swept under the carpet and ignored

for years and years in Westminster,

exactly what we are learning right

now.

I think you are conflating two

things they are, and what we really

do need to do is look at the whole

range of allegations people have

been making, and make sure

Parliament is a safe place for

people to work, a respectful

environment for people who have been

subjected to harassment or bullying

or inappropriate behaviour, so that

they feel confident to come forward

knowing they will be listened to,

that there will be an open and

transparent and fair to everyone

concerned process for getting to the

bottom of it, and that is exactly

what the Prime Minister and the

Leader of the Cows have set out,

Prime Minister's meeting with all

the leaders of the parties tomorrow

to set out a proper process so we

can modernise the work environment

at Westminster -- leader of the

House have set out.

You think Damian

Green should remain in the Cabinet

well being investigated?

That will

be down to Sir Jeremy Heywood. If he

thinks the misdemeanours have a

basis, that he should stand aside,

that will be the recommendation. I

will not second the inquiry on what

Sir Jeremy Heywood finds.

You were

in the Whips' Office yourself for a

year. And much has been said this

week of the whips being in receipt

of a lot of information about bad

behaviour, and instead of reporting

it to authorities they were using it

as ammunition. Was that your

experience?

Absolutely not. I was at

the Whips' Office up to 2015 and,

yes, I heard about the rumours of a

black spreadsheet, and I can

certainly say I never saw such a

thing. How I went about my business

as a whip is really twofold. It is

quite a technical job in many ways,

about of the Government through the

House, working with the House

authorities, the opposition. Also...

Did you ever hear rumours of these

people's bad behaviour?

Sorry?

Did

you ever hear rumours of MPs

misbehaving, sexual harassment,

allegations are that?

If anybody had

brought a complaint to me about the

behaviour of one of the MPs who were

in my flock, I would take that

really seriously, but bull-mac, that

didn't happen.

You said nobody

brought you a complaint. Did you

hear rumours? -- but no, that didn't

happen.

About the members of my

flock? Absolutely not.

Is that the

MPs you were specifically in charge

of?

I did not have that experience

at all.

Let's move on and talk about

the Home Secretary's trip to

Washington this week, where she will

urge tech companies to go further

and faster on online child abuse. We

have heard a lot from this

Government urging these companies to

do something. One specific ideas of

what they could do, do you have a

clear idea of what you are asking

from tech companies?

Absolutely

right. As you know, this horrendous

crime of child sexual exploitation

and grooming is constantly evolving

as the opportunities for the

perpetrators arise. They are now

using live streaming, different

sorts of platforms, which are

largely controlled by the big

companies in America. What we really

want them to do is to step up and

use their huge expertise, used the

huge money they have got, to help

find technological solutions to read

their sites and rid the opportunity

of these paedophiles to be able to

groom young people. We need the

politicians in America to exert

pressure, as well as other

companies, because these are global

problems. We are not going to solve

this problem in the UK alone. We

have made a lot of progress, working

with Facebook and other companies as

well, but we really need to keep one

step ahead of the technology, one

step ahead of the perpetrators, who

are using these opportunities to

commit horrendous crimes.

It was back in 2014 Theresa May for

the Internet companies to do more in

terms of child abuse online and we

have not seen significant action,

and it does not appear these kind of

calls from the Government actually

make difference.

Well, at the moment we are seeing

the police being able to make about

400 arrests per month, about 500

children being safeguarded. The

Government itself is investing a lot

of money in new technology like the

project Arachnid, and making sure

the police have the specialist

resources they need to go

undercover, and absolutely find

these perpetrators and bring them to

justice, but we do need to

constantly have the engagement and

support of the companies themselves

to invest in further technologies to

prevent this from happening. As you

say, we have made progress but we

need to see yet more.

Sarah Newton,

thank you very much for speaking to

us today.

Michael Fallon's decision

to resign this week,

saying his past conduct with women

fell short of the standard expected

of the Armed Forces, led

to something of a minor reshuffle.

And the Prime Minister took

Westminster by surprise

when she announced his replacement,

former Chief Whip and relative

newcomer to the ministerial

ranks, Gavin Williamson.

Here he is speaking on the day

of his appointment.

It's an immense privilege to have

been appointed Secretary

of State for Defence,

and what we need to be doing

is continuing to focus

on countering Daesh,

making sure that our national

security is at the forefront

of everything that we do,

and we have some of the world's

greatest armed services,

and it's such a privilege to be able

to work with them.

Gavin Williamson, who you saw there,

arrives at the Ministry of Defence

at a challenging time

for UK defence.

The Government has promised

an above-inflation increase

in spending every year

but the Ministry of Defence

is already committed to finding

£20 billion of savings

over the next ten years.

The Cabinet Office is currently

conducting a security review

which will look at military

capabilities and funding up to 2022,

while there are continuing

reports of shortages

of manpower and equipment.

And if Labour were to win power,

questions persist over

what a Jeremy Corbyn premiership

would mean for defence budget

and the traditional cornerstones

of UK defence policy

like Trident and Nato.

Well we're joined now

by the Shadow Defence

secretary, Nia Griffith.

Well we're joined now

by the Shadow Defence

secretary, Nia Griffith.

Let's talk about defence spending

first. Would Labour commit to the

same thing this Government has which

is an above inflation increase in

spending every year?

We've been

absolutely clear about that. First

and foremost we'd meet our

commitment of spending at least 2%

of GDP on defence as is our Nato

commitment and we would match the

Government's year-on-year 0.5%

increase above inflation. This is

really important. Labour's always

had a good strong track record of

spending on defence.

Jeremy Corbyn

seems to have a different view.

Speaking at a protest in 2010 he

said Labour wanted to fight all the

cuts except those in the Armed

Forces where we want to see a few

more cuts taking place. He doesn't

seem committed to defence spending?

In the manifesto for this year's

election, 2017, he and John

McDonnell have been absolutely clear

we support the exact words I've been

using now, at least 2% of the spend

of GDP spent on defence.

Jeremy

Corbyn's changed his mind on that?

He's been very clear about that and

it was in our manifesto this year.

You criticised the Government on

whether they meet their 2%

commitment on defence. You saying

they were fiddling the figures

because they were including

pensions. You would strip that out

and snake sure there's 2% spending

on defence which doesn't include

pensions?

Technically, the

Government would argue you are

allowed to include pensions by the

Nato rules. But we've been very

clear, really, when you're talking

about defence spending it should

mean defence. When you look at the

last year of the Labour Government

we spent 2.5% GDP on defence. We are

very much committed to looking at

what we need in our defence budget

and looking to the problems they

have now where they can't meet the

commitments they've made.

You would

sprip pensions out of those figures.

In order to live up to these

commitments you have to find an

extra billion for the defence

budgets because we're not

calculating pensions anymore?

John

McDonnell is well aware of what they

are doing. Putting in the conflict

resolution money which Gordon Brown

kept separate. He is well aware of

the figures and the difficulties. We

are certainly very committed to a

defence budget that really does make

a difference.

I'm not clear whether

you're telling me it will be 2% 69

spending, excluding pensions?

We

want it to be 2% of GDP as in the

way Labour always calculate it had

up until 2010, not including

pensions.

A significant increase in

military spending?

We are talking

about making sure the spending we

need is there because, at the

current situation, we have with the

current Government, they are

overstretched. Even the very caution

National Audit Office says they are

at immense risk of not being able to

meet the expenditure commitment the

they have made. Others talk about a

black hole. You mentioned it that

£20 billion. There is a real issue

we have to address.

To you know what

it will cost, how muchedingsal funds

will have to be found?

We have to

rook at what are the needs at the

time as well as the facts we want to

make that 2% commitment not

including things which have just

been brushed in now by the

Conservative Government.

Let's move

on to a different aspect of defence.

There is a treaty banning nuclear

weapons opened at the UN for

signatories. 122 countries have

already signed it. Would an incoming

Labour Government sign that treaty?

The important point here is there

was an Is inned opportunity for

there to be observers from the UK.

There should have been at that

treaty talks.

That doesn't change

the calculation whether or not an

incoming Labour Government would

sign that treaty?

We are committed

to a strong multi-lateral disarming

programme. That's what we've seen

missing.

This is a multilateral

approach to try to get rid of

nuclear weapons. What you say you

want. Would a Labour Government sign

that treaty?

You we have to look at

how you go about things. We need toe

somebody clear we want to

de-escalate tensions across the

world. Work with other nuclear

partners to help stop the

proliferation of nuclear weapons. We

want to work with those countries

who feel very strongly about the

treaty so we can work together. We

have to do that in a multilateral

framework.

This is a multi-lateral

disarmament framework. Under the

auspice Is of the UN disto see how

else it could be organised. This is

a great opportunity for you, who

have been a lifelong campaigner for

disarmament.ment Labour Government

will be the first nuclear power to

do so, sign it and lead the way.

We

need to use our position to be

responsible and call for responsible

multi-lateral disarmamentment there

was progress made on this in the

eighties and nineties with

considerable amount of are heads put

to one side and destroyed. We need

to get back on the front foot there.

I don't see any presence by the UK

Government at the moment on that

aagain da. It is not helpful for the

nukes leer nations to be separated

from the non-nuclear nation in the

these debates.

That's why I don't

understand why you're not taking the

opportunity to say a Labour

Government would Take The Stand.

We

should wok together and we should

use our position as a nuclear power

to work for a multilateral

disarmament programme.

You were very

clear in your manifesto that the

Labour Party would keep Trident for

the meantime.

Abs will yously.

We

know throughout his life, Jeremy

Corbyn's long wanted to get rid of

it. He signed up to the manifesto

saying Trident would stay. Has he

changed his minds?

The important

thing is that was a manifesto

Jeremy, John McDonnell's agreed to.

We stood on it in 2017 because that

is the Labour Party position.

Absolutely. I'm asking if the Labour

Leader really believes in that

position?

He believes in democracy

in the party. That is the Labour

Party position. I don't see that

position changing at all. He has

said very clearly that he accepts

that is our Labour Party position.

And that is the manifesto we've

stood on and will continue to stand

on.

I'll need to ask questions about

sexual harassment in Westminster. It

is as much as inissue for the Labour

Party as the Conservative. It was

not clear listening to Dawn Butler,

your colleague on The Andrew Marr

Show this morning, she was asked

whether or not the leadership knew

about allegations by Kelvin Hopkins.

Do you know?

I absolutely do not

know at this moment in time. That's

why there has to be an

investigation. It is extremely

important to find out what the

allegations were, exactly what

happened, who was told and who told

what to whom. Then we will be in a

position to see what the situation

is. In the meantime, Kelvin Hopkins

has been suspended which is the

cricket thing to do.

Rosie Winterton

has been outspoken about what she

let the leadership know. If it is

the case the leadership did know

about these allegations should he

have been put into the Shadow

Cabinet?

The real question is who

did know what when.

But what I'm

asking you is...

I am anot going to

speculate whether there was an if or

whatever. We need to know how that

information was transmitted. Was it

put in writing. What it made clear,

who was told what, when. Until we

have a full investigation it would

be inappropriate to comment. What is

absolute lie clear, we need to get

this right for the future. We must

have proper procedures so we deal

with incidents as and when they

occur. And we deal with them

prepperly in a way which gets to the

bottom of the issue and deals with

it properly.

Why should anyone have

confidence the Labour Party will

treat issues that seriously when,

firstly there's a question whether

they knew about Kelvin hop kips and

others have been dissuaded from

making complaints. Knots just Bex

Bailey. Monica Lennon said when she

was harassed at a party senior

figures in the Labour Party told her

it was her own fault. It seems as if

there hasn't been a culture within

Labour to make a complaint.

That's

why we're having a thorough review

of procedures. We brought in new

procedures in July. We need to

ensure there's a proper helpline

available. We are appointing an

independent organisation which will

deal with allegations first-hand so

nobody has to go to somebody they

think might know other people, be

friends with other people. They can

go somewhere completely confidential

and private. These are often things

you can't want to tell your cross

friends about. We will appoint that

organisation and make sure people

can go there and access to it is

made widely known. It is very, very

important when people come into a

job, they know if anything does

happen, they will be able to

complain. Whether they are ordinary

party members or working in

Westminster.

Thank you for talking

to us

For Thank you for talking to us some

on the left of politics,

this weekend wasn't just a chance

to mark the anniversary

of the failed gunpowder

plot here in Britain,

but also events in Russia 100 years

ago, when Bolshevik revolutionaries

led by Lenin seized power

and ushered in seven

decades of Communist rule.

For critics, that's something

to regret, not celebrate.

Elizabeth Glinka went to one event

in London to find out more.

The 7th November 1917.

Red Guards under the leadership

of Vladimir Lenin begin to occupy

Government buildings in Petrograd.

This uprising, known

popularly as Red October

because of the difference

in the Gregorian calendar,

was, in fact, a coup.

The winds of socialist change had

been blowing for some time.

The Tsars had resisted reform

and millions toiled in a state

of almost medieval surfdom.

Then war.

Nearly two million

Russians would die.

The revolution had really begun nine

months earlier in February 1917.

The world's first socialist

republic was declared.

October, well that

was the Bolsheviks

asserting their authority.

A hundred years on, as this

event at the TUC shows,

there's still plenty of people

who want to remember and even

celebrate those momentous events.

Mainly as an event in history,

this is an example of historical

development in action,

the ability of people to club

together and be able to affect

the discourse of history.

It was people's first attempt at

trying to build socialism.

Although there were many terrible

things that happened,

I think we have to try

and draw from experience.

Jeremy Corbyn's close friend

and adviser, Andrew Murray,

was chairing the opening session.

He didn't want to talk to us

but we did manage to speak

to the daughter of one of the most

famous Communists of all time.

TRANSLATION:

It's an historic moment

which opened up possibilities

for further changes

and allowed other people

to strive for a different world.

A world, which it seems,

some are still keen to push for.

We're growing, so there is obviously

a positive reflection.

There is a lot of negative

propaganda that comes

from the Cold War period.

It is harder to talk

to older people maybe.

But younger people

are quite receptive.

The events and discussions taking

place here today cover a whole range

of topics from women's

rights to the Third World

and the impact on British socialism.

But there's much less discussion

of the Russian Civil War,

the purges and the political

repression that would come later.

We wanted to have this conference

because we wanted to show it

in a positive light.

Whatever one's view of what happened

to the Soviet Union subsequently

the fact is it is important

to understand the process

of revolutionary change

for its own sake.

Red October would usher

in 70 years of communism.

The proletarite would rise,

find respect and security.

But the suppression of the peoples

of Eastern Europe, the forced labour

camps and the murder of hundreds

of thousands, if not millions

of people, make it difficult

for many to see that revolution

as something to celebrate.

That was Elizabeth Glinka reporting.

So is the centenary

of the Russian Revolution a cause

for celebration, or regret?

Well, to discuss this I'm

joined by former Labour

and Respect MP George Galloway,

and the journalist Peter Hitchens.

Good morning. Let me start with you

George Galloway. Is the October

revolution a cause for celebration?

With the, if not for the October

revolution, we'd been conducting

this interview in German. Though the

truth is this interview wouldn't be

taking place and we probably

wouldn't be alive for a variety of

reasons. The Soviet Union broke the

back of Hitler, as Mr Churchill

often owe pined in Parliament and

elsewhere. If not for the Soviet

Union, Hitler would have ruled. And

his successorsness, perhaps until

now, from Vladivostok all the way to

Portugal.

You say we wouldn't be

able to have this discussion. In the

former Soviet Union we couldn't have

this office either?

That's also

true. But even the...

George will be

able to say, that of course.

Even

the sun has spots on its face as

they used to say in the Soviet

Union. There is no doubt tremendous

abrasions, big crimes, a lot of

suffering but, if not for the

transformation, then the Soviet

Union, Russia's GDP increased from

1930 to 190 and the Nazi occupation.

And the strength that defeated

Hitlerism would not have been there.

Peter Hitchens, does it offend you

there are people celebrating 100

years since the Russian Revolution?

Offend? No, but in the Soviet Union,

in which I lived, you would not have

been able to say it was set up by a

cynical bitch, almost bloodless, but

engineered by the German Imperial

Government using -- a cynical

putsch, almost bloodless. That this

was the inauguration of an immensely

long period of repression,

brutality, secret police,

concentration camps and lies, which

I am likely to have seen come to an

end in my lifetime, and I cannot see

why anybody looking at that

disastrous country where so much

misery was needlessly imposed on so

many people for so long could

possibly celebrate the beginning of

it, which was completely avoidable,

and as I say was truly the result of

the cynical foreign policy and

intelligence operations of the

Imperial German Government is trying

to save it skin...

But everyone

including George Galloway

acknowledges the tyranny and terror

that followed.

He doesn't. He gives

statistics about GDP but fails to

mention the people murdered in

labour

camp... He was of course formerly a

Trotskyite and sung the praises of

Lenin, which I have not done and

neither have I done today. I have

never been a Communist, unlike Peter

Hitchens, but I do acknowledge and

celebrate that an entirely different

world opened up as a result of the

events in October 19 17. China, you

have just seen their party congress,

decorated with the iconography of

the Bolshevik Revolution, and China

is the most powerful, or soon will

be the most powerful country on the

earth.

With one of the most

repressive government?

I don't think

that is true. There is repression in

China, but...

Enormous repression in

China! How can you possibly argue

there is an?

China has taken more

people out of poverty in the last 30

years than any country, resume,

system, ever has -- how can you

possibly argue there is not?

All

despots always argue, trying to

distract your attention from the

mountains of skulls behind them,

their supposed economic success,

which generally does not turn out to

be as great as claimed. The Soviet

Union was an enormous pile of rust

by the time I lived there and was a

complete catastrophe.

Yes, that is

why it fell down. But we are talking

about the Revolution 100 years ago.

Is it possible to separate the two

events? A popular overthrowing of a

government is perhaps different from

the tyranny and terror that

followed.

It was not a popular

overthrow. You sure this Eisenstein

propaganda as if it were fact. What

we see was a film made afterwards.

What actually happened was a putsch

in the middle of the night in which

hardly anybody... Nobody has even

mentioned...

That German connection,

a rather more important...

Nobody

has even mentioned during this year

until now that there was a Russian

Revolution. There were two. The

first one was a genuine uprising,

overthrowing the old regime, and I

think we can all be glad of it. The

second one was a cynical for --

foreign financed putsch and it does

not deserve to be spoken out.

Is

that true, and Menshevik revolution

would have done better than a

Bolshevik one?

It is not my business

and entirely counterfactual fiction,

if I may...

Unlike how you open this

discussion.

That is the most

important thing. If not for the

Soviet Union, we wouldn't be here.

Hetmyer might still, and most of the

world, with its allies -- Adolph

Hitler might have won and they make,

and most of the world...

The effect

of Bolshevism and coming is on

Europe was colossal.

Let's bring it

all a little bit more up-to-date.

You were saying earlier you have

never been a Leninist, although

Peter Hitchens confesses he was at

one time.

Absolutely was a

Trotskyist, and now nor the complete

folly of that particular political

disposition.

John McDonnell in the

Labour Party openly says he is a

Trotskyist, a Leninist, is that a

problem for the Labour Party?

I

would have thought, arts would be

more respected now than he has been

for quite some time as capitalism is

collapsing around our ears. From

2008 the Economist itself, the bible

of capitalism, began to resurrect

Marxist economics and analysis, so I

really don't think it is. Jeremy

Corbyn is not a Marxist. It only

took them four years, 54...

It is

not that.

I think we are moving into

an era where Governments like the

Chinese Government are making plans,

and are succeeding in implementing

them, and thus transforming their

position. China in 1949, and I don't

need to tell you, was just about the

most backward place you could

possibly imagine. And from 1949 to

now it has sold transforms that it

is the world's biggest economy...

We

are in danger of getting sidetracked

by China here.

I have to put this

point in. If China was backward in

1949 it was far more backward by the

time Mao Zedong finished his great

leap forward and starved millions of

people to death in the period of

economic lunacy. You just don't

notice...

What George was saying

they are, and a sense certainly

amongst younger voters in this

country and others, where they are

turning against capitalism, they

don't think it has worked or

delivered for them, that this kind

of Marxist Leninist philosophy is

becoming more popular?

Let's hope

not. The fact the current system is

failing does not seem to recommend

the Soviet system, which is

demonstrably a failure, and even its

own leaders admitted it failed and

that is why they tried to reform it

in the period I was there and why it

collapsed. Whatever you might want

to conclude from examining our

position, the Soviet alternative is

not the thing you want the dues.

This was a long period of disaster,

and I remember at the end of it

watching in Moscow said a film which

has never been shown here, and the

title means approximately we can't

go on living like this, and for the

first time, the politburo told the

truth about what life was like in

the dreadful place and everyone in

that cinema was weeping because

finally they saw the truth being

told about the dreadful

anti-civilisation in which they had

been taught to live for so long. The

idea we should celebrate it revive

it seems to me to be verging on the

obscene.

George, one interesting

question about this of course,

whilst there are events going on in

London and across the UK to mark

this centenary, it is not being

celebrated in Russia.

I was in

Russia a couple of weeks ago. There

is a big debate about whether it

ought to be, and many people are

celebrating it...

Vladimir Putin is

not. He would want to ignore it.

But

the Communist Party is the second

biggest party in Russia. And it is

the ruling party in China, which,

with respect, is not a separate

thing, because China is continuing

the Russian Revolution and doing

rather better at it than the

Russians did, but there are many

people, particularly older, that is

true, who think that the era of the

Soviet Union was better than the

very cold period of capitalism that

succeeded it. So half the world

followed for a time the red flag,

the red banner of Leninism. No one

will do so again. Leninism of the

kind that Peter used to proselytise

is certainly not coming back, but

Marxism is going to live on.

Let's

hope not.

Thank you both, gentlemen,

for coming on to speak about that.

It's coming up to 11.40am.

You're watching the Sunday Politics.

Coming up on the programme:

We've taken the moodbox to where

else but bonfire night celebrations.

We've taken the moodbox to where

else but bonfire night celebrations?

It wasn't just Westminster

that had the fireworks this week.

We're asking people in Guildford

in Surrey,

does Theresa May have control

of her Government and her party?

In the East Midlands:

of her Government and her party?

A counsellor

walks free from court as child sex

offence charges are dropped.

How has a politician

coped with the most

damaging of accusations?

I've had some dark days

with it, and anyone

that was ever so slightly

weaker than me

would genuinely find

themselves under the bus.

And with winter coming fears for

thousands of people in fuel poverty,

but one campaigner has found a way

of cutting the bills.

All the different

measures that we've taken

have actually meant that our bills

are phenomenally low.

In fact, our gas bill

is 78p per month.

Hello, I'm Marie Ashby

and it's been a

whirlwind week in politics

with the East Midlands

at the centre of much of it.

My guests to talk through what it

all means are Lee Rowley the

newly elected Conservative MP

for North East Derbyshire,

and Alan Simpson,

a former Labour MP for

Nottingham South and now an adviser

to the Chancellor, the Shadow

Chancellor, John McDonald.

So let's pick up pretty

much where we left

off last week, really, and the issue

of whether we get a raw deal from

Government.

This week it was Dennis Skinner

raising concerns in his

style at Prime Minister's Questions.

He said that 30% of the HS2 route

in the south would be tunnels to

avoid homes having to be demolished.

In the north, that figure was 2%.

Isn't it high time that this

Government stopped treating our

people like second class citizens?!

JEERING.

So, Lee Rowley, is he right,

are we second-class citizens?

Well, Dennis is Dennis.

Dennis is my neighbour.

Dennis has his own unique style

and has for 50 years.

There is legitimate

questions to be asked

about high-speed 2.

I've been asking myself

on behalf of my constituents.

My constituency is slightly less

problematic now as it

was before the HS2 move.

But I know there are

other parts of the East

Midlands where it's still a concern.

The reality is, I think

we all as MPs need to speak to HS2.

We all need to make...

To do the lobbying, to make

the point that we want to

make this as easy and as less

impactfull as it possibly can.

So Dennis is speaking up,

I'm speaking up, and

lots of other MPs are

speaking up as well.

Last week we were also talking

about figures that mean we have the

lowest spending in the country

for economic development and public

transport, and very much the feeling

was that we are lagging behind yet

again here in this region.

Yeah, and I'm not sure

I recognise that.

I'm East Midlands born and bred.

I was born in Derbyshire.

I've seen our area

turnround over 30 years.

I've seen my own

constituency go on leaps

and bounds over the past...

But the thing is that

shocking, really,

according to East Midlands Council

is that we have the third lowest

spending on education

and health care for example.

I think we have lots of money

going into the East Midlands.

I mean, there are huge amounts.

Several billion that's gone

into those in the last few years.

We had a recent

announcement about some

more money for roads around

Loughborough, for the space

technology Park in Leicester,

for some improvement in Derby city

centre, and I think

that they were welcome.

But the reality is, I don't think it

gets us very far if we

measure ourselves purely

on what the Government gives us.

We are better than

that as the region.

We are doing fantastically.

We can always do better.

But ultimately, we want

to do as well as we can.

Alan Simpson, the fact that

HS2, the HS2 route is

going through the East Midlands

shows that money is being spent

here?

Well, it does, but I don't think

we should spend our time

arguing about how much

of the East Midlands the train

should go underneath.

My worry is that I have

a different starting point.

Even the new electrification

of the east

coast main line, the West Coast

mainline, and we've got the Midland

route round and electrification

of that route, which has been long

neglected, for decades,

would have been my starting point.

No, I don't have a shadow

of a doubt that the

East Midlands gets a very poor deal

and has done historically from

central Government funding.

The transfer from the

south to the north...

If you want a one nation politics,

that we have to begin.

OK, thank you.

Well, politics got personal

for many people this week,

but there was good news for one

East Midlands politician,

Jason Zadrozny, has spent almost

three years fighting child

sex offences.

This week, it finally came

to court and all the charges

were dropped.

In a moment, we'll

be hearing from him.

But first, our political

editor Tony Rowe looks at

the personal and political

toll the case is taken.

It was one person

regularly parking on them.

On the double yellows?

On the double yellows.

On the streets of Ashfield

where he's from, Jason Zadrozny is

well-known.

He was about to fight the 2015

general election when he

got a knock on the door.

About 20 officers burst

into my house and

took over the house immediately.

They held me and took my phones

and every thing of me, so I couldn't

send messages.

It was just a very surreal

experience, really horrible.

Really horrible.

The allegations from one

man, he says he's never

met, took him to a desperate

place at times.

But he campaigned on.

I've had some dark days with it,

and anyone that was ever so slightly

weaker than me would genuinely find

themselves under a bus.

I've had some really

close calls with

depression and, you know, mental

health issues because of this.

So I think we've got

to be very careful

how we treat it.

If I hadn't got my support

network around me, I just

wouldn't be here now.

He's led the Ashfield

Independence, largely made

up of former Liberal Democrats

to local election success, even with

the accusations hanging over him.

He says he won't let

what has happened

go unanswered.

I've had nothing from the police.

They just walked away with a smile.

I intend, obviously,

to seek legal redress and see what

they say once they're in the dock.

We put the to the officer of

Nottinghamshire's Police and Crime

Commissioner Paddy Tipping.

They issued a one

line statement to the

effect that this is an entirely

operational matter and therefore one

for the Chief Constable.

The court case may be over

for Jason Zadrozny, but

his legal battle will continue.

So, Jason, we heard

there that you left

the Liberal Democrats and you formed

your own party, the Ashfield

Independence, with some

of your supporters, but given that

you have these horrendous

accusations hanging

over you for a long period

of time, what was it

like knocking on the doors?

What was like standing on doorstep

asking people for their

vote?

Well, I mean, firstly, I had to pick

myself up and dust myself

down.

It was pretty horrific.

The worst things you

can be accused of.

Luckily, I stood for election again

in a town where the grown-up and

where people know me, so those

people were incredibly supportive.

I won two elections there and I

would say the Ashfield Independence

have had their most successful

election since then,

so people in Ashfield have been

incredibly supportive,

and I think that's what

has got me through, really.

But they must have been

some awkward situations

on the doorstep where

you

didn't quite know how to react

and maybe they didn't?

Well, I always told the truth.

I mean, people asked me,

"We have seen you in the press,

we have seen you on the TV,

what is the truth?"

And I always was a honest,

I've never had anything to

hide about this.

And people always appreciated

that honesty, but it's

been very tough and, yeah,

there have been some very tough

conversations.

You talked about the impact this

has had on your mental

health.

Yeah, well, if you can imagine

someone with a public life.

I have lived my life out

in the press when this happened.

There was no anonymity

until people actually

find any evidence.

It was all out there and,

I mean, frankly, and I've

said this in a number of interviews,

it gave my father an enormous heart

attack and he died a couple

of weeks afterwards.

He never got to see me

clear my name, so not only was I

living my trauma in

the press, but then I had

the personal tragedies

to

deal with as well.

It's been a horrible

1000 days, nearly.

And you were a Parliamentary

candidate once.

Is that ambition now done with?

Are you finished with that?

Well, that ambition always

stemmed from wanting

to do something for Ashfield, we've

had many discussions over the last

ten years on this show about

Ashfield, and my ambition is still

to do something for Ashfield.

I think probably now

in 2019 the Ashfield

Independence can win

the

council elections in Ashfield,

and will deliver something from the

council perspective instead.

Well, we did imagine

that you would say

that, obviously.

Away from your specific case,

there has of course

been a wider issue around

politicians and their conduct this

week from accusations of rape,

to sexual harassment.

I mean, Lee, you are new to

Westminster, what do you

make of all this?

Well, it's not been

a good week for politics.

All of us go into

politics to try and do

the best that we can, to try

and achieve things in politics.

Politics can be force

for good when it's done

properly.

All of the allegations we've seen,

so far don't help that.

There are some really serious

allegations, allegations of

criminality, which need

to be investigated fully.

I think we also need

to tighten up on some of the

standards down in Westminster.

To make sure that

some of those things

which are talked about,

I haven't seen down

there yet, but which

are

talked about, need to be stopped...

I was going to say,

have you seen any of

this kind of behaviour,

this

kind of conduct?

Not that I've seen, but I've only

been in the early few

months, so I'm probably not

the right person to ask.

Well, let's ask Alan,

because you were an MP for

almost 20 years, Alan.

How much does this

culture need to change?

Oh, I think it does

need to change, and

the idea that Parliament can just be

a law unto itself and it's a closed

space for anyone else was never

helpful at the best of times.

So I think that that's

part of what needs

to happen and the imposition

of proper processes that protect the

person who complains

as well as treating the complaint

properly, rigorously and seriously

is long

overdue.

My only caveat is that I think it's

really important not to

allow the really serious

and substantial to be taken over by

something of a morass of

the trivial, because that will stop

Parliament doing what it is supposed

to do, which is to address really

big issues that affect our country

and society, so that the separation

of the substantial from the gossip

culture is I think one of the

biggest challenges that MPs

and the press have to face.

All sorts of stories

coming out all the time.

Lee, we hope this week

that there were calls

for an independent body for people

who work at Westminster

to be able to take

their concerns to.

It seems astonishing that this

hasn't happened before.

Yeah, and I think that's

something that the

House, authorities and the Prime

Minister are talking about.

I completely agree with Alan,

actually, in terms

of their are some really serious

allegations and very bad behaviour,

criminal behaviour,

which needs to be investigated.

We need to divorce that slightly

from the gossip that

has started coming out.

My previous life

was not in politics.

We had processes and

procedures by which

when this did happen, bearing

in mind it didn't happen very often,

but it did happen, that people

could go and seek to address and get

support.

We need to make sure the house

of parliament is no different

to any other employer in making

sure that is available.

I think that's what the public want.

They want for you to

have the same code of conduct

that they are expected

to live their lives by.

The accusations that we hear

from Westminster, Jason, seem

to suggest there is something very

wrong with politics.

What impact does that

have only ground level

here in the East Midlands for

example about people's perceptions

of politicians and what

they think about MPs?

I think politics has been

a dangerous place long time.

We had the MPs expenses scandals.

And then we had, now we are having

the same stuff.

It's almost like we've gone back

in the Delorean to 1992.

We are living their stuff over

and over again, and how can it not

be fixed?

That's why people have turned away

from politics in such a

big way.

Brexit, Donald Trump,

and in my area people voting

independently are fed up

with parties politics.

I think politics needs

to yank itself up by the

bootstraps and sort itself

out, otherwise we'll

all turn away from it.

Jason Zadrozny, thank you very much

for joining us in the studio.

Next, winter is coming,

and for hundreds

of thousands of people

across the East Midlands,

that means worrying about how

they can afford to pay

their heating bills.

The region has the third

worst figures for people

in poverty in the country.

One advice centre in

Nottingham said that

the problem that affects

the

most vulnerable people in society

who end up paying more for their

fuel because they cant

access cheaper deals.

The poverty premium

at the moment is £490 a year.

And that means that you pay

£490 more for essential

things if you are a poor.

Now, that doesn't seem a lot.

People who are working, £400,

£500, but if you're on a

benefit of £72 a week,

it's an extra £9 a week that

you are having to find a week

because you are poor.

Just in terms of the way

you pay your gas and electric.

Paying on a prepayment

meter is the most

expensive way to pay

for your energy.

This is the real problem, isn't it?

This hits the purest hardest.

There

is definitely something in that.

There is something that needs to be

salt around that. The cap is

specifically with regard to

prepayment. I wish the market was

working. I am a free marketeer. It's

not working here. The Government has

said it will step in on a temporary

basis to try and fix it. I welcome

those caps and I hope it saves

people at the end of the day.

According to the charity National

energy action, 13% of the people

here in the East Midlands are in

fuel poverty.

There has been

improvement on that the last few

years and there Government efforts

to end the late properties and the

cap has been introduced. We do have

to make this better. People should

be able to heat their homes. The

fact the Government is saying it's

trying to tackle it.

I would say in

amicable terms that actually it is a

shambles. We ought to...

That's not

so amicable.

I think there are a

part of the Conservative Party

trying to engage in this any

different way and all supplies of

the Labour Party. The solutions are

not more of what we been trying to

do badly. I left in order to try to

show how you could do that. It is on

this is me that I have taken MPs

around Germany and UC households

that are generating more energy than

the consumer in Denmark by law you

are not allowed to sell energy for a

profit. There are a whole states

that haven't had increases in their

fuel bills in 15 years. Why? In the

UK we have a market dominated by

Richt corporate interests. -- Road.

Elsewhere there are breaking it down

and doing it in local with an people

generate their own energy can get it

added by the dude today.

It was

easily not working. We don't accept

any conservatives that it

automatically defaults to a place

where we have to nationalise,

because nationalisation don't work

in the 60s and 70s. Some of the

things Alan was pointing out that

there are interesting ideas that we

need to look at how we can do that,

putting more it installation in,

Micro generation of energy.

Is that

going to happen?

It is already

happening. We all agreed

we always

say we have to make it happen

quicker but it's not happening?

If

you look at where energy subsidies

go at the moment, there is no energy

investment that isn't Government

funded. They are hugely being thrown

at the big corporate. If we are

using that money, why not use at

levels where communities can a

difference and become much more

environmentally and energy

self-sufficient?

One solution could

be making our homes more energy

self-sufficient. This lady has

fitted her home to make it as green

as possible. She has the lowest

water costs in the country and her

gas bill is 70p a month.

IM Penny

and I am co-owner of the Nottingham

E.- which is just over here. It

looks like a typical Victorian house

and there are millions of them all

over the UK. What makes mine

different is that I have cycled it

into an eco-home. We have solar

panels that give us 50% of our hot

water needs every year. The yellow

Worrell is not just render, behind

that is a super insulated servers

that keeps us very warm. The windows

are sliding sashes which are triple

glazed. Even in winter when you're

sat next to them, you will not feel

calls coming off them. Right from

the roof to the seller and the walls

and everything in between has been

highly insulated. These shelves are

made from water bottles. Egyptian

top is made from steel 100%

recycled. -- the kitchen top.

Underneath is a piece of recycled

pie. This looks like a normal

radiator and the difference is what

makes it hot. I don't have a gas

boiler, but I have in most is a

woodfired boiler that runs on

scavengers would. It saves me an

absolute fortune. It is hard work,

but it does really work on saving

those bills. Our bills are

phenomenally low. Our gas bill is

78p a month. The point of me doing

all this to my house has been a

really big experiment to see how far

I could reduce costs in my home.

That actually has a rock to do with

fuel poverty which is something I've

been campaigning about for many

years. The Government figures

projected for all homes to be

project late insulated and brought

up to energy efficient measures by

2025 if the staggering cost of £26

billion. The projected cost of cold

related illnesses and admissions to

the NHS in 2025 is projected to be

22 million. -- 22 billion. And think

that energy efficiency is just a

nice thing to have, it isn't. It's a

matter of life and dad.

-- life and

death. It could be about £50,000

these days. That is still a huge

commitment for anybody. £50,000.

It

is and the reality is that if we are

going to do things on a scale that

makes a difference to people in the

East Midlands and around the

country, you have to take what that

lady has done and roll it out on a

bigger scale. The models for doing

this can be found easily if you go

across and look at what happening in

Denmark or Germany where they

structurally address what we would

do would be 25 million homes that

people live in today and we have

low-cost, financed when to 2% over

20 to 30 years delivering

transformations of homes into energy

plus housing, properties that now...

Do you think we should be doing that

in this country?

It the bankers in

those countries that were saying to

us when we have gone over there, far

from it being a cost, this pays

ours, because all the kids who do

this work gets girls, jobs, they pay

taxes, where do the taxes go? They

come back to us.

We want fully insulated homes, will

energy bills, creating our own

energy.

How are we going to do more

about that to help people? Because

it's not cheap.

The Government has

already done that, they have

insulated over one and a half

million households. They are

continuing. It is going to make

things better, but the reality is,

but we are a country with a large

amount of debt, a large deficit, and

we have to find a way to pay our own

way in this world. These things are

fantastic, I wish we could do that,

but at the moment we are

constrained.

It all comes down to

money.

No, the money is there and if

you look at the experience of

community energy crops set up all

around the world, country, people

will throw their savings into it.

The trouble is, we are not allowed

to sell that electricity back to

rise out of that half the price.

,

Thank you, Alan. Thank you. Now for

a round-up of some of the others

reason the East Midlands. Here is

Tony. -- some of the other stories.

East Midlands Airport wants

the Government to invest more

in road and rail in the area

to help its

expansion plans.

The airport intends to triple

the number of passengers

and cargo it handles,

generating thousands of jobs.

A trip to Brussels for high profile

Remainer Ken Clarke.

The Rushcliffe MP joins

Nick Clegg and the Labour peer

Lord Adonis for a meeting

with the EU's chief Brexit

negotiator, Michel Barnier.

Ken, are you allowed to be here?

Because this isn't

a Government policy, is it?

It's not Government

policy, not visiting

Brussels.

The trio said they wanted a better

appreciation of what was

going on in the talks.

No cuts to services

are planned by Derby City

Council for the first

time in seven years,

but to balance the books

next

year, council tax is expected

to rise 5%, and there could be

around 100 job losses.

The RSPB is concerned

that in the past year

four birds of prey have been shot

or poisoned in Derbyshire.

It says its linked to

grouse shooting and wants

police and local authorities

to protect birds of prey.

And that is the Sunday Politics here

in the East Midlands. Thank you

to support.

All right, and at that point

we have to end it there.

My thanks to Rosena and Andrew,

and with that it's back to Sarah.

It's been a tricky

week for Theresa May -

again, you might think.

She's lost a Cabinet minister

and been forced into a reshuffle

which did little for party unity,

to say nothing of losing a Commons

vote on Brexit and yet more reports

of fireworks in Cabinet meetings -

this time apparently over housing.

So, is the Prime Minister's time

in office going with a bang

or more of a whimper?

Well, we sent Ellie Price