22/04/2012 Sunday Politics East


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A in in East, while the Prime Minister lost his patience with one


of our MPs, the government will look to more Turbo and like these


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1437 seconds


Why would you point a finger in men accused a to way. Asking how to


inflate our homes better. We want a green deal, we want to spend less


rather than more on energy bills. It is a big issue, an important one.


You signed off on this in a committee, then in public your


party moves away from it. We did not sign off, you are making


comments on the internal mechanisms. We decided at the National Security


Committee that there was a dilemma, there is an issue that people are


making telephone calls to each other using new means of doing so


which did not exist in the past. They are not captured by current


statutory powers which the police can use. What none of us have


decided on because we have not seen it, it has not been discussed


collectively is how subject to proper parliamentary scrutiny it is.


How do you make sure, absolutely, a point I made at the time in public


and in private that we don't infringe on basic civil liberties.


It is getting the balance right, it is painstaking and has not been


completed yet. Why are you putting up so few candidates in local


elections. We are putting up fewer, we lost a lot of councillors last


year, we took a real thumping last year which is normal, parties do


this with the ebb and flow of their fortunes. We are focusing our


candidates on the areas where we are strong and campaign well. Where


we deliver for local communities. Michael Brown, your party's


biggest-ever donor, is being extradited from the Caribbean back


to this country. He gave your party to 0.4 billion -- million pounds.


You have no legal obligation to give this back but don't you have a


moral obligation? I am very pleased he is coming back to serve his


sentence, a convicted fraudster. This happened before I was even an


MP, let alone leader of the Liberal Democrats, and what I have been


told is that the electoral commission looked at this


exhaustively as far as the receipt of that money by the Liberal


Democrats from one of his companies. They concluded that the money was


received in good faith and all of the cheques which should have been


made were made by the Liberal- Democrat at the time. If we had


been shown wanting on those counts then of course we should pay the


money back. I accept that you did not know, but you were in receipt


of stolen goods. Don't you have a moral necessity to hand that back.


I am just talking about the principle. The principle is, if you


were to receive money from someone and you did so on false pretences,


knowingly, and you did not conduct the right checks then you should


pay it back. The Electoral Commission shows that in those


cases which take place, as it did before I entered Parliament, that


was not the case had been Liberal- Democrats and they were exonerated.


There are stories in the rounds at Westminster that he will stand down


at the next election. Can I give you the opportunity to scotch those


rumours today, to say you will fight the 2015 Liberal-Democrat


leader. You bet. If Parliament results in another hung parliament,


are you up for being a different Deputy Prime Minister in another


coalition? I will say to what I said months ago, I don't think how


Coalition's are formed should be the plaything of any politicians.


It should be based on the instruction of the British people.


At the last election there was only one possible combinations so what


we did was quite it if we followed, the mandate. That is what we should


do in the future. Deputy Prime Minister, thank you for being with


us on this marathon day. It is approaching 2:30pm. Coming up in 20


minutes, I will be looking at the week ahead with our political panel.


Until then, the Sunday politics across the UK.


Hello and welcome to Sunday politics in the east. Coming up,


what is the future for onshore wind? The government pulls back on


a new wind farm development as pressure grows inside and outside


parliament. First, let's introduce our guest, the Conservative MP


joins us, and the Labour MP for Luton South. Kicking off with the


proposals for the House of Lords, a second elected chamber. M P Patel,


I assume you are not keen on these proposals? His early days, they


will give their own findings, I have concerns. I don't think it


will be scrapped the House of Lords and start again. There is a serious


constitutional role for it to play. I think we have to look at


proposals and look at the feasibility of some of the changes


which will be proposed. I am not for wholesale root-and-branch


reform. Under Labour they talked a lot about reform, his is the way


forward? We had that at the start of our administration. I hope this


will be successful. It is a big fault line in the coalition.


Although I want to see them an elected, I want to see how the


government will play this out. Moving on to another big talking


point this week, we are still talking about the Budget because it


is still causing controversy. This week with the Finance Bill having a


rocky ride through Parliament. The six MPs rebelled against measures


for taxes on pasty is, caravans and historic buildings like churches.


The MP for Clacton received a public put down from David Cameron.


The pensioners, motorists and pasty makers of will condemn the budget


and now the church is joining in. Angry at plans to charge VAT on


repairs to historic buildings. point is that these places are for


the community. They are not profit organisations making money for


other people. They are here for the community. The Universities


Minister opened a new college in Harlow, but was told by the head of


Anglia Ruskin how angry universities are to cap charity


giving. Others furious that VAT will be charged on the sale of


static caravans. A millionaire can own a holiday home, bricks-and-


mortar, anywhere in the country and he does not pay 20 per cent VAT.


Some of these issues have been forced by civil servants, one of


already unhappily with the taxes was very publicly slapped down.


There are a few occasions when I think the Honourable Gentleman need


a bit of a sense of humour. He told me to get a sense of humour but the


people I represent in Clacton are not laughing about the budget or


the massive increase in VAT of caravans. They are not laughing


about the past the tax or the lack of economic growth. I can do humour


when I need to, but I don't think people voted for me because they


wanted me to be a comedian. To this Budget has left many


feeling uneasy and they must now hope for divine intervention to end


this stream of bad publicity. has been a public relations


disaster has it not? David Cameron says we have got a year to talk


about it. A year to consult. Why has it not been consulted on before


it reached the Budget? Are I come to this from a different


perspective. Most but is that I can remember, they have always been


taught about long after it has been given. There are lots of


technicalities around budgets. Gavin will recall back in the


Labour days we had a 10 p tax issue which went on and on and on. An


increase in the state pension to. We talk about being Wendy but it is


announced, you talk about them for weeks afterwards. There is a couple


of points here, one is about fairness and won his invocation of


the tax system. We have discovered that they have been far too many


anomalies in the tax system, hence the reason, where the past days of


caravans, and why the government has looked at the tax rates around


these issues and said they would simplify them. The government is


being sensible, Gavin? They have to be saving somewhere. We did oppose


the measures in the Budget, I think they are deeply unfair. Many of the


people in the film that talked about the ways it will affect their


business. The key issue we should be talking about his growth.


Instead we have spent four week's talking about them. In our budgets


over the 13 years, there was the 10 p tax for example, but my fear is


that this whole budget will be looked at at like that in the


future. I thought the response from the Prime Minister was a bit of a


shame there, actually, hopefully, there should be a fulsome response


to the question asked. I think it also says something about the


relationship between the decision makers and the backbench MPs.


me put that to Gavin shook her. The residue between leader and party,


no surprises? Any party has this disconnects. I don't believe we


have it now, I think we are very united, but it is true there is a


problem there. David Cameron made to work really hard at keeping


those guys on board. They are coming into a difficult period


right now. We are moving on now to the growing opposition to onshore


wind farms. The government has pledged to call a halt to new


projects and that is before it announces a fresh cup. Amid growing


concern among them MPs, the government claimed the targets will


be met. The industry disagrees. Across the East Northamptonshire


tops the table. In all there is a total of 216 large wind turbine


soon to be built across the region with another 87 in the pipeline.


The government seems to agree that that is where it should end. This


village in of Northampton share has a small community with just 70


people, not in a big battle over seven turbines. There are plenty of


other places besides this. They are all around us as it is. They have


got to leave us somewhere, surely? We need an oasis amongst it all,


they should leave us alone. turbines would be seven times the


height of the tower of the 7th century church, and it is the


potential threat which feels local fury. There is a feeling of


helplessness which then becomes frustration, and it turns to anger.


You find yourself getting highly motivated to try and defend what


you have got. This is where the decision will be made, not by the


planning committee of the district council but by a single planning


inspector. They say the council fell to determine the application


and the time about, so it is down to a planning inquiry to make the


ruling. There are already very stringent guidelines about way you


can cite wind farms, it has to be done through a local democratic


process. You have to carry out a local assessment, which needs to be


very stringent. The king at the effect in the area, only then can


you get the project through. energy suppliers say they have a


history of fairness and say it is appropriate. They said one is not


going to blink and miss the structures, but the National


process is clear. Even if the impact are probably to be viewed as


adverse, that in itself is not a reason for refusal. Could that


overall policy be about to shift with many MPs arguing that these


need to be cut substantially and there are already enough project up


and running or in the pipeline. have a target of 13 gigawatt of


onshore wind for 2020. We have got six through the planning gate


already and seven going through now. We will hit out 2020 target later


this year, probably. That proves to me the number is way too high.


not clear we have hit the targets, a number of proposals are at


planning stage and now they are saying that because they are


uncertain about the commitment to wind they are pulling back to see


what happens. It is not clear the targets have been met, but we have


to look at the whole mix of energy that we need. We expect to need


more and more power, if we don't get it from offshore wind that


means we are probably going to be more and more reliant on imports of


fossil fuels from other countries. Bad for the environment but also


more expensive. At Bradwell on see there is more


plans under way, and the firm behind it says they are working


closely with local people and councils. Campaigners say they are


looking to halt the project by seeking a judicial review claiming


the structures could put protected areas at risk. They believe that


onshore wind has had its day. political pressure for onshore wind


has now gone. There will probably be a number of small light


industrial ones as we have seen on some local farms but the big


developments, such as this one, will probably no longer happen.


is heartbreaking really, we did design the property to take into


consideration all of the views, and everything else which goes with it


in the area. Then we find that they will be taken away. We hope it has


a not come too late for us. We still believe we will win the


judicial review and on that basis they will not be built here. 130


miles away they to believe they will prevail, confident that this


is a David and Goliath battle that they can win. I am joined by Adrian


Ramsey, the former Norwich councillor, now deputy leader of


the Green Party. Do you have any sympathy at all with the people in


that report? Of course I have sympathy and there you should be


taken into account in the discussions around planning


applications, but a recent poll from the Sunday Times show that


more than 50 per cent of people surveyed want to see more wind. We


could have more supportive we saw a more consistent community at


ownership. I want to see community ownership of wind turbines to come


up more frequently, as we are seeing in some parts of this region


already, I think there will be more public support. We have been told


the industry should brace itself to a large cuts of more than 10 per


cent. What do you think that would do to the industry. I am really


concerned about the effect it would have on the industry. We could be


creating thousands of jobs if they have the confidence that there


would be orders placed. Investors say it will create 2000 jobs in


Kent soon if there is a possibility for a plant there. We are way


behind other countries with other renewable energy is, whether it is


wind, wave or solar panel power. We should be tackling climate change


and we have to remember that fossil fuels and nuclear power has huge


subsidies which does not get attention. You mentioned and energy


mix and if we keep with that, we have gas and nuclear energy, do we


really need in this country any more onshore wind? Onshore wind


must be part of the solution and we need to make sure that people's


views are taken into account on this. We need to look at the


effectiveness of a particular site but we do need more onshore wind.


There would be more supportive it was community based projects, and


we need to reduce the amount of energy that we rely on. If we


insulate people's homes and tried to look at the local issues we


could reduce our energy demand that way. The let me bring in the other


two guests. Labour subsidies were so high that they effectively


skewed the market, didn't they? Some may say it led to the market


being overly aggressive. I think it kicks started a market here. If


what is being said is right in the that, it shows that we were quite


foresight full in moving the situation forward. The real problem


here is that the government is running up against its own rhetoric.


It promised localism for local communities and yet the realities


are that they are being put in places where people don't want them.


It is interesting, I agree with Gavin on the point about kick-


starting the renewables agenda in this country. We need that energy.


I am in favour of having local people have the saved. What we saw


in that package, in Essex, for example, local residents fearing


that their views were completely ignored and overridden by the


Planning Inspectorate. That is wrong and I would like to think


that the Government's powers in regards to localism, going forward,


would make sure that residents have the saved. You are here being the


vote bluecoat green government, how has their record been so far?


Disastrous, they have slashed the support for solar-powered, they are


failing to take the action that we need to supply energy for the


future to localise our economy. We are far too reliant on imported oil


and gas. Part of the issue is about investing in all types of renewable


energy, whether it is wind, solar all way. What about in energy mix,


Gavin? We are the ones who first foresaw we were coming up to an


energy crunch around 2020 or 2025. We need all kinds of energy. It is


all very well for the Greens to say we must press on regardless but


local people must be heard. It would be against my wishes to


defend this government but to take away the structures to plan


effectively, across city areas, it becomes much harder. The government


has got itself into a real mess, is it about localism or the Green


economy? The the 2020 tariff, are we going to make it? Everything at


the moment looks pretty good for getting the right energy mix by


2020. Absolutely. We are there to meet targets. The government has


been very clear. Energy mixes key but we should not forget that it is


hard pressed tax payers out there who are paying for higher bills and


having to subsidise renewables. It is important that this government


looks at this again. Briefly, a trim, what is your response to the


government running back on this proposal? -- Adrian. We need to


support renewables in general, with offshore wind and onshore. With


onshore wind we need to make sure the proposals are appropriate. If


we can promote more community renewable projects there will be


more support at a local level. I'm not saying that every site is


appropriate but there would be more support if it was community based.


Thank you. You two stay here, it is time for the weekly political


round-up. Watch out for the Dragon, here it comes in 60 seconds.


Peter Bone up to his old tricks this week asking the education


department to relocate to Wellingborough. Daily you would get


the advice of Mrs Bone, they cannot be a better opportunity, surely?


All I can say is that Northamptonshire has many


attractions, chief amongst them is Mrs Bone. How to achieve an


attractive High Street was the mission of a Dragon who believes


the government could do more. must say there is a lot of lip


service and very little substance. A view shared by one the Labour MP


who took the Prime Minister to task about the granite tax. Does the


Prime Minister to think that this granny tax is teaching pensioners


with a respect? It was the Right Honourable Member for chums that he


was asked to show a little respect in a rebuke from the Speaker.


quiet Mr Burns, it would be better for your health. You are the


Minister for Health. Well, there we go. Let me pick up on that point


about our high streets. We seek hour Dragon are not happy about it,


very little substance. I disagree, I met Mary he because we put in a


bit to be part of the pilot. I have a very motivated community and they


have been very inspired by this. I have been delighted to see them


come together and worked together to look at the benefit of our town


centres. Under Labour it was spend, spend, spend. As a result are we


going to see the High Street get smaller? I think the real problem


is not that the review would work, it is the economy. And this we see


some real action on growth this year in the economy, it does not


matter how many reviews you do you will be in a really difficult


position. The High Street is here to stay? Yes, absolutely. Luton has


a pride in one which you will have to visit. That is all for now. You


can keep in touch via our website where you will find links to


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