14/10/2012 Sunday Politics East


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Here: One of our most respected universities heads a task force on


for students and does our ambulance need a fast response as it loses


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2170 seconds


Hello and welcome. Coming up: In the middle of the controversial


reorganisation of East Anglia's ambulance service, its chief


executive steps down. He has always been good to deal with and they


paid tribute to him, but there is something wrong with the way in


which there ambulance trust has delivered its service in North week.


The university in our region heading up the Task Force


Consulting on the immigration status of students from overseas.


First, let us meet our guest, Stewart Jackson is the Conservative


MP for Peterborough. Let us start with the news that we are able to


batter a burglar without fear of prosecution is the force is


reasonable. The most high-profile case involved Tony Martin jailed


after shooting an intruder at his farmhouse in 1999. This week, he


welcomed the change. We are supposed to live in a democratic


society. Maybe what is going on today, they are trying to put


decency back into democracy. Tim, this is a bit of a crowd pleaser,


isn't it? Very much so. Nobody wants to see innocent people go to


jail because they have to send -- defended themselves in their own


home, but I worry that it doesn't become an open licence to tackle


anyone in your home or garden by mistake - in a garden in particular,


somebody could find themselves being attacked.


We have gone from hiding a hoody to battering a burglar. It is a


realisation that the public were significantly concerned that the


balance was tilting towards the criminal and away from the victim.


Chris Froome will take a more nuanced position -- Chris Grayling.


But there are only a handful of cases like this anyway. And to be


fair, the Crown Prosecution Service looks at each individual case in


that way. Nevertheless, the key words are "grossly


disproportionate" and providing we keep that in mind, it will reassure


householders that the law is on their side and if they do a


reasonable thing, confronting a burglar with a weapon in the middle


of the night, you are going to possibly behave unreasonably. But


this will reassure people the law is on there side of the law abiding


citizen. This week, the chief executive of


the East of England ambulance trust is standing down only a month after


-- the staff passed a vote of no confidence. There has been growing


criticism over the service and, in particular, response times. These


other stations around the region at presence with the original double


staff to ambulance service. Half of them may change, possibly to a


rapid response vehicle with one member of staff. Managers insist it


will not affect quality of service. An ambulance crew on the way to


another emergency, but as the number of calls grows the budget


shrinks. The East of England ambulance services Ned -- needs to


save �50 million over five years and that could be tricky because it


already seems as if it is at full strength at times -- full-stretch.


This man's neighbour collapsed and lay face down in the rain for


three-and a-half hours. Neighbours were looking out, they


haven't come yet. No sign. It is just incredible. This is 12 -- 2012


not 1912. If the wrong weight but this baby's life in danger. The


mother needed an emergency Caesarean and an ambulance was


called but did not turn up for nearly two hours. Riley is now


doing well but his grandmother is worried other families may suffer


if ambulance budgets are cut. worries me a lot because if the


resources had not been as stretched, there would not be an issue getting


an ambulance to him. In both cases, the ambulance service apologised


and said lessons would be learned. But it has intensified worries


about the effect of saving �50 million. So how is the service in


to say that money? Calls are prioritised. If a patient's life is


in danger, the service will try to reach them within eight minutes. If


not, the patient may wait longer for a different type of vehicle or


be given advice over the phone. This, says the ambulance service,


is already saving 900 and necessary ambulance journeys a week. These


days, different types of vehicles respond. You have the frontline


ambulance with a crew of two - it ignition and a paramedic. There is


also a rapid response vehicle driven by a paramedic and that has


the equipment the same as an ambulance. Also, blanket 24 hour


cover will end and vehicles and staff will move to areas where


demand is greatest. Managers say savings will make the service


better. They also say those living in rural areas have nothing to fear.


Those areas whose research -- resources are changing does not


mean they will get a worse or different service, but it means we


will were closely with our partners to make sure we can provide the


right level of service. I members are telling us they are being sent


further to respond to jobs. That means patients already are waiting


for a longer period of time. Last week, the chief executive of the


East of England ambulance trust stood down one month after staff


passed a vote of no confidence. The Department of Health, meanwhile,


says the savings the service faces are part of savings being made


across the whole of the NHS. The EEAS says it will have to do more


with less. Earlier this week, Chris Bond spoke


to Norman Lamb who has been actively campaigning over cuts in


his constituency. She began by asking about the Chief executive


quitting his job. He has always been courteous and good to deal


with, but I met with the ambulance trust a year redo, making clear my


concerns about response times in rural Norfolk. One year on, we


haven't achieved the up - where improvements we were hoping for. It


is an enormous area the service is covering. The last government


decided to amalgamate ambulance trusts to create a mammoth area. We


need strong leadership to make sure the service delivers the care


people need. You are campaigning about the reorganisation of the


ambulance service, but it is your department, the Department of


Health, that is courting -- causing the savings to be made had do you


square that circle? The government has ring-fenced government spending


so there has been no cut, but a marginal increase. Every year,


because of the ageing population, costs keep going up so reform is


necessary to make the money go further. Do the paramedics and so


on understand that you have almost a foot in both camps? Of course


there are enormous challenges. I'm doing it as a member of parliament


for North Norfolk and I have a responsibility to represent those


people to make sure the service is of high quality in gets the care to


people when they needed. That is my job as Member of Parliament. As


Minister in the Department of Health, it is a question of how we


ensure the NHS remains sustainable. Isn't he being hypocritical there


some what? I couldn't possibly comment on that particularly. He is


well known as a diligent and hard- working constituency MP. But, yes,


you could say he also has to robustly defend government policy.


He touches on an important point about the size of the region. He


also probably would make reference to the fact that there is a mixture


of rural and urban and we are a fast-growing population. I want to


put that to Tim Hagen. Your area is a rural. Can we expect the same


service in rural areas? We should expect a good level of service that


meets patients' needs. I was talking to ambulance drivers a few


weeks ago and they told me that, on the basis of expected demand, they


might be in King's Lynn or Newmarket the next moment or


shunted took Ipswich. When that happens, apart from tiredness, it


leaves a lack of, -- cover in rural areas. In my area, if they are in


King's Lynn, it is no use to a patient who need -- needs an


ambulance in Newmarket. contributor said it is not 1912 but


2012. Coalition funding is having an impact on the health service and,


in particular, on ambulance services. To wait three hours when


someone is possibly in a life threatening situation, I can't


believe there isn't someone who could have got that person to get


them to hospital. Are you saying that is what people have to resort


to doing? No, I'm just saying... That is ridiculous! There should be


a level of help. The ambulance service can't be everywhere and


people need to understand that There are walk-in centres, clinics,


hospitals and accident and emergency departments they


themselves can reach. It is a factor of a huge growth in


population... What we are talking about is a bus service cut with our


out-of-hours GP services being reduced. It means people have less


means of getting to that service. We will keep you informed about


that. The future of foreign students in


our universities. According to migration watch, foreign students


contribute millions of pounds to the economy of the East. Weeks


before the new term started, the UK Border Agency decided to revoke


London Metropolitan he's -- Metropolitan's universities licence


causing concern over the future of the whole sector. The question for


the government is whether to count foreign students in immigration


figures or not. East Anglia will be taking a leading role in shaping


government policy. Its results day here at the


International Centre ate in Norwich. Around 17% of students are from


outside the EU here on a long-term visa. The best thing about here is


that... It it is a beautiful chapter in a person's life. He's


students have fees ranging from -- up to �24,000 a year. It can bring


an extra �16 million to the local economy. But here they say it is


not just about the money. A number of graduates go back to their


country's and become very good ambassadors with a nascent --


natural inclination to do business and a cultural affiliation to this


country. The London Metropolitan or -- Metropolitan University was


stripped of its Visa status ability in the summer. Some cases, students


just did not turn up to classes. Here, they are leading the charge


against what they say is a heavy- handed Home Office attitude. It


could damage for ever the academic and cultural benefits that


international students bring. Across the East, 17 smaller schools


and colleges have had their licences to grind feeders revoked


since 2009 -- grant visas. One professor who has been appointed to


chair a task force looking at these is his calling for a change to the


way student numbers are counted. would like them to remove


University sponsors from their net migration target and say this bit


of so-called migration we actively wish to grow. The Home Office,


however, told us it will not remove students from the immigration


The system puts the UK in line with other countries. The net migration


figure is exactly the same with other countries in the way it is


calculated. The United States, Canada, Australia all include


students in their net migration figures. There is no reason why we


shouldn't. For the government it is about getting the balance right.


course we need to have a rigorous these the system and the vice-


chancellors would agree with that. We need to make the most of what is


a brilliant heritage that Britain has in our outstanding universities


and sell that around the world. Meanwhile, the task force's working


on a system to count how many students on visas leave the country


each year. Labour's former higher education


minister joins us and the Vice Chancellor of the University of


Bedfordshire. Bill, what percentage of your


students are from non-EU countries? About 5,500. Very significant. I


think overseas students at die university and across the country


bring enormous benefits to universities and students and to


our economy. Overseas students are worth about �8 billion a year to


the UK economy apart from the other benefits that we want our British


students to have a global mindset and skill set. Living, working and


studying with students from other nationalities is a positive benefit.


But I universities like yours using students to prop up finances?


will not delight there is a financial element but it is broader


than that. At a time when public funding is being cut back, overseas


students bring financial income strains, but we want our students


to integrate and have connections internationally. As was said on


your piece, when the students go home, they link back to the


university they study being. The connections they have made also and


that is a powerful benefit to us as a country. Are you in denial about


the concerns over immigration controls? No, I was a member of


parliament for 13 years and the biggest element of my postbag was


concerns about illegal immigration, but overseas students are not the


same. They are here for a short period of time for a specific


educational purpose and I don't see why we should lump them together


with other migrants and actively tried to reduce them. You need to


reduce illegal immigration and I understand the argument for


reducing other forms of migration, but overseas students bring us a


real benefit. Stewart Jackson, is and revoking licences an over


reaction? No, not at all. Bill will know it was an open secret under


the last government that there were language schools and other scores


and colleges that were trading on illegal immigration. To give them


their due, they did begin to tackle that. The ID you can disregard


students as being part of the overall Immigration past the --


package is nonsense. The problem was never ignored and there were


changes rightly made to tackle bogus colleges. If you listen to


the argument made about removing university overseas students from


the migration cab, it is university overseas students and not those


studying in private colleges or schools. -- cap. There is a real


benefit in having legitimate overseas students studying at I


universities. Tim, the colleges here in the he's that lost their


licences said they pulled out because the situation became too


complicated. We heard the rules had been changed over a dozen times and


this is affecting the whole sector, isn't it? When we look at the World


few and our competitiveness, if this is the message we are sending


out, that we put owners burdened so on students, that is the first


message they get -- own arrest burdens. We need to be much better


at bringing in students with a minimal fuss and making sure


processes are in place so that they return afterwards with a good view


of the world. I was on the Public Accounts Committee when we looked


at this a few months ago and died tackled the gentleman from the


London School of Economics it was 0.3% of the income thereby getting


from students and the cost of processing visas. There is a lot of


what you might call an enlightened self- interest. My challenge to the


universities are, why aren't you developing more bursaries book


students in the UK? We are bringing in millions of pounds a year into


the UK economy. Shouldn't we encourage more UK students to go to


these universities? Yes, we should. At a university we have the best


scholarship programme in the country, but we are capped on the


number of home students we can admit by the government. There is


not a trade-off between home and overseas students. Home students


sometimes prop up causes that otherwise would not run -- overseas


students, but -- prop up some causes that might otherwise not one


-- and run. Now, the The Week in 60 Seconds.


The wheat crops failed and food prices are set to soar so the


former agriculture minister was praised at the conference.


deserves our praise for bringing farmers and processors together


before agreeing a code of practice. Councillors -- Business welcomed


plans for �22 million worth of investment clearing bottlenecks.


We have identified six schemes which will ease the congestion and


improve the safety record. As the anniversary of the Battle of Dale


Farm approach is, Eric Pickles has plans to stop travellers in illegal


sites in their tracks. A new instant stop notice will allow


councils to issue finds to those who defy a planning laws.


Notices and finds, will they stop travellers parking on illegal


sites? I doubt it, because in many occasions they do have nowhere else


to go. They have to step up to the plate. Will it work chasing


travellers for fines? You need to have a policy that is tough and has


a bit of a carrot aspect to it. We need to give financial incentives


to local authorities to make greater provision for travellers


because there isn't that incentive at the moment. In fact, the problem


of travellers and unauthorised encampments is prevalent across our


region. So the key is to provide more funding and site? And also be


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