16/12/2012 Sunday Politics East


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Who is the real winner when the votes stack up?


And the MP trying to solve the problem of how to look after people


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2145 seconds


Welcome to Sunday politics. Later, and then to the scandal of people


losing their homes to pay for elderly care should be in sight.


Someone else who has not chosen to save gets everything paid for by


the state. A lot of people feel that is unfair and we're trying to


address that. And to stop this situation were so often people have


to sell their home. And how strong performances from UKIP in this


region could boost the tally for Labour. UKIP could play a key part


in the next election without winning one seat. Let's me to our


guests. Norman Lamb. And Lisa Duffy. She is the mayor of Ramsey in


Cambridgeshire pop --, the only county run by UKIP.


Let's start with the hospital we discussed last week. The chief


executive still had to appear before the Commons Public Accounts


Committee where its chairman accused senior NHS management of a


negligence. You took these decisions in 2007 to go out and


find places to franchise while at the same time building a big


hospital in Peterborough. It is clear there was not the business or


the money to sustain the two separate hospitals. Norman Lamb,


the first private company to run an NHS hospital. They hospital saddled


with catastrophic debt. Where do you believe these hospitals will be


in ten years' time? It is an interesting model. The company that


is running at, it is still an NHS hospital, people have the same


access, but the company is owned by of its employees from top to bottom.


They sought to redress the quality of health care that hospitals


deliver and there appear to be significant advances there. I


suspect the staff feel engaged as they will have a stake in it.


the future, a where will they be? Obviously there are real pressures


in Peterborough and across the county. I think PFI has played a


major part here. It has been disastrous. The NHS has had its


future mortgaged to the tune of over �70 billion still outstanding.


It was a big mistake of the last government to go down and road.


Lisa Duffy, have the people of Cambridge have been let down by the


planning? Absolutely. There is a high level of immigration coming


into Peterborough. There will be a need for both hospitals. The fact


they have got the PFI, the huge burden on our NHS, what we would


like to see our county-wide health boards. Democratically-elected


people who will make decisions on behalf of their county. The care at


Hitchin but he is absolutely fantastic. I gave birth there and


have had to take my children there, they have 100% focus... We need


integrated care between GPs and hospitals. Now to the issue of


long-term care for the elderly. Thousands of people in this region


are forced to sell their homes and use up all her savings to pay for


it. The Government are looking into her family's can plan for their


future care. He suggested raising the value of what families could


keep of their assets and capping the cost of care over their


lifetime. But how much she did be? Norfolk have the second highest


number of over 75 in the country. The minister responsible for care


and support canvassing opinion on the future of long-term care. We're


doing a survey to get people's views on care for elderly people. A


lot of people feel it's unfair that people have to sell their houses to


pay for care. We are looking at whether we should introduce a cap,


to cap the costs and stock you suffering catastrophic loss if you


or him up one gets dementia or something like that. The draft care


and support bill has been a long time coming. The White Paper was


published in July. If you have saved and worked... He you get


punished for it. The coalition asked Lord still not in 2010 to


make a report on the elderly. The report have suggested allowing


people to keep �100,000 of their assets. We have the problem of


public finances been in a complete mess, we're spending more than way


of bringing in and that has to be taken into account. But the idea of


having a cap so when you reach that cap, the state will take over and


pay your costs from that 0.2 onwards. It would create some


certainty for the private insurance market to come in and offer other


packages to support people. changes proposed by the commission


would better off somewhat better off pensioners. One way is to take


away some of the universal benefits like television licences, winter


fuel allowances. In the short run that could get to a lot of the way


paying for the extra cost. How old are you? IM99. Residents said this


nursing home have had to face up to the consequences of the system as


it is now. One of the biggest worries for old people is the House


there had been saving for all their lives, they have got to sell it.


the average 65-year-old today faces lifetime care costs of up �35,000.


For one in ten people it will be more than 100,000. Do you have any


thoughts on how we pay for care for older people? It is very difficult,


who do you go to? Public responses to the care and support bill would


publish one week ago and it is due before Parliament in the new year.


Cross-party consensus has fallen apart before. Critical planning for


our future care needs depends on a more successful outcome this time.


One has the cap on lifetime care now been talked about going up to


�75,000? We have not settled on a figure and there are still


negotiations going on. I think we need to implement this report, the


idea that the state can help protect people against catastrophic


loss because of dementia Lhasa Apso one I raised the cap? As I said in


a clip, we have to balance the dire state of public finances. We have


to get it under control. We also need to provide protection for


people in their old age. We have not settled on a cap yet. Lisa


Duffy, what is UKIP's view? We're very pleased to see a report like


this that will protect people. People, especially those who have


worked hard all their lives, why should they be penalised? We ought


to be looking after our older generation, they have led us to


where we are now and we should give them the dignity of looking after


them. Does your party have a policy on this? We are working through our


health policy, the key things we would like to see our helping


people save for the future, giving them a reason to save for their


long-term care. We would also like to see a bigger part in supporting


families to enable them to look after their elders. Many years ago,


you would not see people going into as many care homes. Norman Lamb, I


will bring you in a moment. Why does your party not have a policy?


We are reviewing all our policies at the moment. We're taking time to


make sure the policies we bring out and put forward to the constituents


are fully fledged and accountable. We will not be making staff up to


win votes, we will be putting out credible policies. Norman Lamb, if


the cap is set at 55,000, it would cost �1.7 billion the year.


that is the cap set at quite a low level, we may need to set it at a


higher level and we are discussing that in government at the moment.


RU Saini cannot afford this low- level cap? We may not be able to. -


- RU saying. Some of the worst public finances have any G20


country have to be sorted out. The Government has the prime objective


of getting the public finances in order, but also we want to ensure


we make real reform in areas like care for elderly people. For too


long this has been neglected and we have got to the point now were the


three main parties have agreed on this model of a funding and the


task the Nile is to implement that. I think it is really important that


the Government put our elderly care at the top of the agenda. We have


not taken enough time to think about the long-term future. The


other a point about finances, if we were not members of the European


Union, and I know you will laugh at that, but that would be �150


billion the year. One of our Conservative MPs has warned that


the Tories could lose as many as eight seats in this region in the


next election because of the surge in support for UKIP. A recent


opinion poll suggested 21% of people in East support of UKIP.


Probably not enough for any MPs, but by splitting the the right to


centre vote it will make it easier for Labour to win.


The UK Independence Party have been with us for almost 20 years. Most


of that time the other parties have dismissed it as a joke. But not any


more. UKIP are a threat to the Conservative Party. The red lights


are all on and the Government have to do something to persuade


people's fears. We know they can do well in Euro elections, but there


are now making their mark in UK elections. They have 54 local


councillors in the east. It runs Ramsey Council in Cambridgeshire.


They came third in the Corby by- election and poured more than the


Lib Dems in the PCS elections. And most importantly it is splitting


the Conservative votes. They could play a key part in the next


election without winning a single seat. Labour are recovering by


getting votes that went to the Lib Dems in 2010. The Conservatives


need to increase their votes and they're looking at UKIP who are


knocking on the door trying to attract Conservative voters away


from them. It's it could cost us seven or eight seeds. That would


mean we would not have a Conservative government. One of the


places he has in mind is probably Great Yarmouth where there was an


upset in the local elections this year as UKIP split the Tory vote.


In two of those wars we came second and then several others are we came


third. -- wards. This affected the composition of the council, four


Conservatives lost their seats changing the majority on the


council to Labour. That could happen again in the next general


election. The current MP for Yarmouth has a majority over Labour


of just 4,000. It would be more secure if 2000 people have and


voted UKIP. You have to take your opponents seriously, you work hard,


and knock on doors and talk to people. You have got to work hard


and all we can do as politicians is work hard for our communities.


David Cameron it needs to articulate a positive message of


taking powers back from Brussels, of sticking up for British


interests, of moving ultimately to an inner, Out referendum. The Prime


Minister knows many of his MPs want him to be more eurosceptic.


Conservative Party is a broad church. You have people with


different views, but the Government policy is absolutely clear. We need


to be in the European Union because we need the benefit of a single


market. We do not want to be governed by Europe so we begin a


new settlement. The Prime Minister has ruled out any pact with the


party, but many MPs say something must be done before the next


election. In Ipswich is that Qatana MP. Do


you feel worried? -- is the town's MPs. I am working harder every day


of the year. You must be vulnerable though? I am vulnerable to a whole


series of things, people wanting someone else to do the job, is


strong Labour Party, for I am vulnerable to a Liberal Democrat


party locally. This is fluid politics. I do not know anything


about a local UKIP presence. They have not done anything to show they


are interested in Ipswich but when they do we can have a discussion


about it. Are you saying you're not aware of any UKIP threat therefore


you're not worried about it? Not at all. I was saying when I see them,


we will then have a discussion about what they want to do for the


towns. I will make the argument if we want to come out of the European


Union, we will be using tens of thousands of jobs in Suffolk.


we will not see you any time soon making a pact with UKIP? UKIP is a


party that really wants to turn Britain back to the 1950s. They


believe are our best days are behind us. I do not think that is


the kind of Britain we can build all want to build. I think we are


going to do better in the future. Part of that is a new deal with


Europe and that's what we should be proposing in the next few years. Do


people really want to be represented by UKIP? I think there


will be much more stark choice in the next election. Would you like


to see the Prime Minister be more eurosceptic? The pride and Mr has


taken a robust view in Europe. -- the Prime Minister. He vetoed a


treaty at last year and he has conducted negotiations on the


reform of Europe on the European budget. He is doing exactly what he


is asked to do by the British people. The eurozone will come


together soon to make it their own way. Let's bring our other guests


in. Lisa Duffy, you heard what he said your party wants to take the


country back to the 1950s. Clearly not. We want to take our party for


it with the commonsense policies. Our votes are not just coming from


Conservatives, they are coming from Labour. We saw that in Corby and


Rotherham. But you are still the bridesmaid, not yet to the bride.


It is small steps. You can see how quickly we are growing. Have the


viewpoint of the constituents out there are giving us their vote. We


are making any impact in local government and achieving a lot in a


small space of time. Norman Lamb, how do the Lib Dems sit in on this?


You are losing a lot of votes to Labour. You must be concerned?


We're in government for the first time in a very difficult time of


economic plea. You do what you have to do for the national interest. I


believe it is right to be working with the Conservatives to sort out


the mess we inherited. In the past we benefited from protest, UKIP


benefit from protest now. I understand why people are anxious


about the future, eating is an uncertain time. But when it comes


to selecting a government people will think about jobs and the


economy. Being part of a big single market, we are a trading nation, it


is really important we can sell our goods into Europe without tariff


barriers. But we need to be thinking about trading with the


world and not just the European Union. I think we could do that


better by pulling out. If the Labour vote goes up and you lose


both to UKIP, you're in a difficult position, are due? The BBC is


making a typically binary decision here that somehow only Conservative


voters go to UKIP. There are many Labour voters who do that too, Lisa


is right about that. My job as a politician is to do what I believe


to be right in principle. I am not going to start moving because one


particular political faction believes that above all else we


need to come out of Europe. They Any volunteers to be Eric Pickles


secret centre? -- secret Santa. Ongoing concerns over Kettering


hospital caused an argument this week. I will not give way. I will


not give way to the Honourable Member who has not done a great


service to people in my constituency. We will never build a


21st century economy on 19th century infrastructure. Christmas


cheer as a campaign to cut the tax on beer came to Westminster. No


sign yet of a goodwill gift for Nadine Dorries who are still


waiting for the Conservatives were, but I think we know what Eric


Pickles would like to see in his Christmas stocking. You are now


more fondly disposed towards Essex than Yorkshire? Norman Lamb, 19th


century infrastructure, we need better infrastructure to stimulate


growth? I totally agree. Norfolk MPs are also making the case for


investment in the A47. Lisa Duffy, living in the Fens you are not


blessed with transport links. would like to see a better bus


service. There are also improvements to the A14 which helps


people. I would love to make sure that does not become a toll road.


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