19/05/2013 Sunday Politics East


19/05/2013

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Here in the East: The region's Eurosceptic MPs lead

:01:25.:01:29.

the charge for an in-out referendum. And armed police take to the

:01:29.:01:31.

streets of Luton, providing the local police commissioner with his

:01:31.:01:41.
:01:41.:01:41.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2149 seconds

:01:41.:37:31.

Hello, and welcome to the Sunday Politics here in the East. I'm

:37:31.:37:36.

Amelia Reynolds. On the menu today: A large helping of Brussels. And

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it's a subject giving many of the region's Tory MPs indigestion. 21

:37:41.:37:44.

of them led the way last Wednesday, voting against the Government on

:37:44.:37:47.

the Euro amendment. That's almost half of our Conservative

:37:47.:37:52.

backbenchers critical of David Cameron's Queen speech. Arch

:37:52.:37:55.

Eurosceptic Peter Bone is on our panel.

:37:55.:37:58.

Plus, the new system of police commissioners is facing its biggest

:37:58.:38:01.

operational test in Bedfordshire. Armed police are patrolling the

:38:01.:38:06.

streets in Luton after a surge in gun crime. We ask the Police

:38:06.:38:10.

Commissioner if he can deal with the crisis.

:38:10.:38:13.

But first let's meet our guests. As I said, we have Peter Bone, the

:38:13.:38:16.

Conservative MP for Wellingborough. He joins us from his home in

:38:17.:38:20.

Rushden. And it's a first appearance on the

:38:20.:38:22.

programme for Clive Lewis, Labour's prospective candidate in Norwich

:38:22.:38:28.

South. Clive is no stranger to our studios. He works for the BBC here

:38:28.:38:31.

in the East. But, has been working in a non-editorial capacity since

:38:31.:38:37.

he became a candidate. So let's start with Europe, and a

:38:37.:38:40.

question: Could some Tory MPs in marginal seats stand on a joint

:38:40.:38:44.

ticket with UKIP at the next election? It's something the Mid

:38:44.:38:52.

Bedfordshire MP Nadine Dorries has been talking about.

:38:52.:38:59.

Birth mac is that a divided right, which is what we have now, only

:38:59.:39:02.

allows the left to come through the middle. The Right has not been

:39:02.:39:05.

divided in this way since the second world war and we have to

:39:05.:39:11.

look at imaginative ways of healing the rift on the right of the

:39:11.:39:15.

political arena and find a way to unite them and show the people out

:39:16.:39:21.

there that if you vote Conservative, you are going to get that socially

:39:21.:39:26.

conservative type MP that you want. It is interesting, have you been

:39:26.:39:32.

considering the same move? Well, I think what Nadine was saying and

:39:32.:39:35.

other Conservative MPs are saying is that we have to somehow

:39:35.:39:41.

harnessed the enormous power of the right and we saw that in the local

:39:41.:39:45.

elections. Nearly 50% of people either voted Conservative or UKIP

:39:45.:39:50.

and if we could somehow unite that we would be returned to government

:39:50.:39:55.

with a large majority and one of the ways... Are you interested in

:39:55.:40:01.

joining the UKIP yourself? No, I have not and neither have my

:40:01.:40:05.

association. You can be selected as a Conservative candidate and then

:40:05.:40:11.

endorsed by UKIP, rather like we were a endorsed by the Unionists

:40:11.:40:15.

and a Labour candidates are endorsed by the co-operative

:40:15.:40:18.

candidates. Liberal Democrats are of course the two parties, the

:40:18.:40:22.

Liberals and the Social Democrats. It is nothing new and one of the

:40:22.:40:29.

ways we could unite the right. OK, nothing in you. Labour has had

:40:29.:40:35.

people standing on a joint platform. The Labour and the co-operative R

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joint sister parties. It is completely different. What we are

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seeing here, as happy as I am to see the Tories tear themselves

:40:44.:40:49.

apart on this matter, Nadine Dorries is box office. You wonder

:40:49.:40:53.

what she will do next and what she will say. The reality is that why

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they are fighting with each other everyone wakes up thinking about

:40:58.:41:02.

dhurries -- Nadine Dorries and David Cameron should be thinking

:41:02.:41:07.

about the economy. David Cameron has served no pacts and no deals,

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or would you defy him? Of course not. I absolutely support David

:41:13.:41:16.

Cameron. The Conservative Party is more united on Europe than we have

:41:17.:41:22.

ever been. The vote last week, there was no Tory rebellion of

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there. We all supported the amendment or abstained. It was the

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Labour Party that was all over the place. We are very United. We are

:41:31.:41:37.

staying with Europe. 21 of the region's Tory MPs defied David

:41:37.:41:39.

Cameron on Wednesday, reflecting their deep seated dissatisfaction

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with the coalition. Now attempts will be made to steer a referendum

:41:42.:41:45.

bill onto the statute book, so we could have that in-out vote within

:41:45.:41:51.

four years. Now, we've heard a lot this week about why we should leave

:41:51.:41:54.

the EU, and in coming weeks we will be looking at those arguments,but

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there is also a strong case, particularly in this region, for

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staying in. This week Andrew Sinclair has been looking at some

:42:03.:42:09.

of those who are keen on the European dream. For many people,

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Europe is more than a political argument, it is part of their

:42:13.:42:21.

everyday life. This company in Stowmarket processes 300,000 tonnes

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of malt every year for the brewing and food industry. One third of its

:42:25.:42:31.

trade is with Europe. Here, staying in the EU makes total sense. At the

:42:31.:42:37.

moment we stand together with Europe and Britain going alone

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would be too small on the international scene. Contracts are

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made globally these days. If Britain was alone it would need a

:42:45.:42:49.

lot of financial support. The legislation has protected trade

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within Europe. A survey by the local chambers of commerce recently

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found that 95% of firms believe withdrawing from the you would be a

:42:58.:43:04.

step backwards for the region's economy. 55% of the East of

:43:04.:43:08.

England's trade is with the EU and it is responsible for one in 10

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jobs here in the UK. They have a 5 million potential customers

:43:12.:43:16.

throughout Europe and the fact they have no administrative or tariff

:43:16.:43:19.

restrictions means they can do business as easily with Berlin as

:43:19.:43:27.

with Leeds. The eastern region has received more than �400 million in

:43:27.:43:31.

grants from the EU in the last seven years. Companies find it easy

:43:31.:43:35.

to invest here. The biggest investors bring money into how

:43:35.:43:40.

power businesses and help create jobs in the east of Europe, those

:43:41.:43:46.

are Germany and France. We are playing with fire if we put that at

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risk. David Cameron famously told his party to stop banging on about

:43:51.:43:56.

Europe. His reasoning was that most people do not really care about it.

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A recent survey by Lord Ashcroft found that 4% of people regard our

:44:01.:44:06.

future relations with EU as a future -- major issue. If one

:44:06.:44:11.

country goes down then everyone suffers. At this school in

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Cambridgeshire the sixth-form politics class is getting in some

:44:13.:44:17.

last-minute revision. Everyone around this table has travelled to

:44:17.:44:22.

Europe. Some are thinking about studying or working there. If there

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were a vote today most would choose to stay in the year. So much goes

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on in our lives that we do not notice that is done by the EU

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Commission rather than our government but we have grown up

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with it so there is no problem with it. As soon as we left we would see

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so many bad things like so many of our rights could be withdrawn or we

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would not get the benefits that we do see being part of the EU.

:44:45.:44:50.

think the benefits at the moment outweigh the negatives. In fact the

:44:50.:44:56.

Fabian Society recently found that 54% of 18 to 24-year-old woodwork -

:44:56.:45:00.

- would vote to stay in the EU, just 31% would want to leave. There

:45:00.:45:07.

is a strong argument for saying at the heart of Europe but they are

:45:07.:45:15.

going to have to make a better case if they are to win a referendum.

:45:15.:45:21.

What are your main reasons for wanting us out of the you? First of

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all, can I correct your introduction. When you said most

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Conservative MPs defied David Cameron, absolutely not, we are

:45:31.:45:37.

putting forward David Cameron's policy. That little piece you ran

:45:37.:45:41.

there was considerably unbalanced, in my view, towards an argument

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that only the BBC can make. We are asking you now, let us not waste

:45:46.:45:51.

any time, what I your views on why you want to come out of the EU. Let

:45:51.:45:57.

us know. If we just keep to the economic arguments, it is quite

:45:57.:46:03.

clear that we lose millions of jobs by being in the year. We have a

:46:03.:46:08.

trade deficit with the EU of �30 billion a year, in other words more

:46:08.:46:12.

imports into our country than we export which means more jobs in

:46:12.:46:15.

Europe than in our country from being in the EU, where as the rest

:46:15.:46:20.

of the world, we are in surplus. When you are free to trade with the

:46:20.:46:25.

rest of the world we do rather well. The basic idea that somehow being

:46:25.:46:30.

in the EU economic creates jobs, I am afraid that is complete rubbish.

:46:30.:46:35.

We had in that package that 195% of firms believe that withdrawing from

:46:36.:46:38.

the EU would be bad for the region's economy.

:46:38.:46:43.

How come they are all round and you are right? Well, what I think you

:46:43.:46:47.

have to say is what was the question that was put? Nobody is

:46:47.:46:50.

seriously suggesting that we wouldn't trade with the EU and a

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thing that was the issue that those businesses were referring to. What

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would happen is there would be a free-trade area, rather like I

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guess Norway and Switzerland to were doing rather well by not being

:47:01.:47:07.

in the EU but having a free trade. -- area. We would be able to trade

:47:07.:47:09.

with the the rest of the world without all of these regulations

:47:09.:47:13.

imposed on business. If you ask business people will the real

:47:13.:47:17.

problem is with their business they will say over-regulation and most

:47:17.:47:23.

of those regulations come from the European Union. 95% of the British

:47:23.:47:28.

companies do not have -- export at told the European Union and yet

:47:28.:47:31.

they are affected by those regulations. Get rid of those

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regulations and more people will be employed. Let us look at the latest

:47:35.:47:43.

polling data on the E year. 46% are in favour of restoring while 30%

:47:44.:47:52.

say they would vote to stay in. Labour are in the minority, if you

:47:52.:47:56.

had a referendum you do not want one because you would lose a.

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week the polls were showing it was virtually a second next so they

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changed. The point that Peter is making about Europe is that if we

:48:03.:48:08.

were to lead Europe everything would fall apart. As far as I am

:48:08.:48:14.

concerned that is not true. Just look at the eastern region. �5

:48:14.:48:17.

billion worth of exports go to France and Germany alone here.

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Trade with France and Germany every year. That is much more than we

:48:23.:48:28.

contribute. Leaving the EU would be a catastrophe for this country.

:48:28.:48:35.

shouldn't people have the choice? We have said quite clearly that we

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do not want a referendum. Our focus must be on the economy. I put the

:48:40.:48:43.

0.2 Peter and he has said before that Labour are running scared

:48:43.:48:48.

about Europe that we are the only party that has ever given the

:48:48.:48:52.

British people a referendum on Europe so we are not taking lessons

:48:52.:48:57.

from the Conservatives when it comes to referendums and democracy.

:48:57.:49:03.

The reality is that our focus needs to be on the economy. You have

:49:03.:49:09.

heard what Clive Lewis has said and Vince Cable has also criticised a

:49:09.:49:13.

referendum for causing uncertainty among for business community and so

:49:13.:49:16.

has no serious friend of the business community would consider

:49:16.:49:21.

severing links with Brussels. You are damaging business and the

:49:21.:49:24.

economy. I think that Vince Cable is gearing up his leadership

:49:24.:49:30.

campaign to replace Nick Clegg. You know, I think he is probably being

:49:30.:49:34.

a disaster as a Business Secretary. The sooner he leaves the Government

:49:34.:49:38.

and runs for lead but -- leader of the Liberal Democrats is better

:49:38.:49:44.

that -- better for everyone. Seaside towns, farming, transport

:49:44.:49:48.

infrastructure has had a lot of money from Europe, but we are not

:49:48.:49:52.

getting that there's much, are we? I think we have been talking a lot

:49:52.:49:56.

about money here, and that is extremely important but something

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else, and this is where me and Peter were completely and --

:50:00.:50:04.

disagree, it is the idea of Europe. You think of European history,

:50:04.:50:09.

centuries of bloodshed and warfare, it has come together in the last 40

:50:09.:50:13.

or 50 years, the idea of people working together to improve the

:50:13.:50:17.

environment and economy and people's rights at work, I call it

:50:17.:50:22.

right at work, he called it red tape, that is the idea of Europe

:50:22.:50:26.

and the kind of leadership Europe should be offering to the world.

:50:26.:50:30.

You Lukacs Syria and Africa and this shows that people can come

:50:30.:50:34.

together and work together for the common good and it is a fantastic

:50:34.:50:39.

piece of leadership we can show the rest of the world. Peter Bone, when

:50:39.:50:43.

the European campaign takes off and the business community is behind it,

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you will have a real fight on your hands. Of course the bills this --

:50:48.:50:51.

of course the business community will not be behind it, it is

:50:51.:50:57.

rubbish that we are getting money from the EU, we pay �19 billion of

:50:57.:51:01.

money into the EU and a kindly give us some back. They cost a fortune,

:51:01.:51:06.

it costs jobs. Economically it is a nonsense to continue in the year in

:51:06.:51:10.

the present situation. What we need to do is go back to what everybody

:51:10.:51:14.

thought they were voting for, a common market, a free trade area,

:51:14.:51:20.

which will be great for Europe and great for Britain. We will lose --

:51:20.:51:30.
:51:30.:51:34.

we will leave Europe now and moved on to law and order. In particular

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the worrying surge in violence in Luton. This week a local man was

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jailed for life for the murder of 19-year-old Delaney Brown last

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September. The incident has been followed by a spate of violent

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attacks, some involving guns. It's prompted the police to deploy

:51:46.:51:49.

armed officers on the streets. And we've been speaking to people in

:51:49.:51:52.

the Marsh Farm area, where much of the violence has taken place. At

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the church's weekly community cafe people were ready and willing to

:51:55.:51:58.

talk about how it's affected the area. It seems to be coming from

:51:58.:52:00.

the authorities all over the place that Marsh Farm is Dodge City in

:52:00.:52:04.

Bedfordshire. Where are all these guns coming from? That actually, in

:52:04.:52:10.

the town, and I have been for a long time, they are being passed

:52:10.:52:15.

around for money. What the police have done is they have put images

:52:15.:52:18.

in the local media of people walking around with machine guns

:52:18.:52:23.

that gives the impression that most Jan people in our town I'm fired --

:52:24.:52:28.

of violence and their his gang war going on. There is a tiny minority

:52:28.:52:34.

of young people that have an issue, it is a tiny minority. The

:52:34.:52:37.

overwhelming majority are positive and doing good things. It is only

:52:37.:52:40.

in the last few weeks that the Troubles have hit the headlines

:52:40.:52:44.

again and we have seen increased police activity. I have done a lot

:52:44.:52:48.

of work with Bedfordshire police in the past but not the new crime

:52:48.:52:52.

commissioner. I think there is a leadership role. I have never met

:52:52.:52:55.

him. I would challenge him to come and see our group and see what we

:52:55.:53:02.

are doing. Please come and see what we are doing on the streets.

:53:02.:53:06.

would say to him that you probably need to up the public perception of

:53:06.:53:10.

what is happening, because it does not come out on the streets as

:53:10.:53:14.

though it is happening that way. anything more goes wrong, his

:53:14.:53:20.

standing and his position is reducing all the time.

:53:20.:53:22.

Well, earlier this week Etholle George spoke to the Police and

:53:22.:53:25.

Crime Commissioner for Bedfordshire, Olly Martins. She began by asking

:53:25.:53:28.

him how he would respond to the comment that Marsh Farm is

:53:28.:53:34.

perceived to be just like Dodge City.

:53:34.:53:37.

What I hear from people is that there is quite strong support for

:53:37.:53:41.

the response that the police have now put in there. The most

:53:41.:53:46.

important thing is that this does not become the norm. The extended

:53:46.:53:50.

use of stop-and-search powers, the armed police walking around the

:53:50.:53:56.

estate, must not become the norm. As I say, at the moment, people are

:53:56.:53:58.

saying it is an appropriate response to the situation we have

:53:59.:54:02.

seen in the last few weeks. Where are the guns coming from and where

:54:02.:54:06.

can you not get rid of them? As you heard in the report we are talking

:54:06.:54:12.

about a very small number, a very small criminal element in the west

:54:12.:54:16.

of Luton, of perhaps 20 or 30 people. We have to keep things in

:54:16.:54:21.

perspective. This is a big test for your role. People are expecting you

:54:21.:54:26.

to do something. Yes, that is why I thought it was important to go out

:54:26.:54:30.

with a local member of parliament and the local council to listen to

:54:30.:54:34.

people and hear what they have to say about the situation. With due

:54:34.:54:39.

respect, you have had six months to let that visit and yet it has taken

:54:39.:54:43.

six months to do so. Well, I am the Police And Crime Commissioner for

:54:43.:54:47.

the whole of Bedfordshire. I have had quite a lot of other things to

:54:47.:54:52.

do in the last six months, including appointing a new chief

:54:52.:54:56.

constable and I do live in the town of Luton so I have a fairly good

:54:56.:55:00.

understanding of the challenges that we face here. With due respect,

:55:00.:55:04.

his and guns and gun crime on the streets of Luton higher up your

:55:04.:55:10.

agenda? Well, it is, and what we need to see is that these things

:55:10.:55:15.

come in cycles. A few years ago we had a similar spate of incidents

:55:15.:55:19.

which ended in a large gang being broken up and sentenced to a long

:55:19.:55:24.

time in prison. What I want to try and achieve as police and crime

:55:24.:55:29.

Commission is to stop a cycle, to workout who are the young people

:55:29.:55:33.

who are at risk of becoming criminals, and interrupt that

:55:34.:55:37.

journey so that we can stop the cycle of criminality and violence

:55:37.:55:42.

that sometimes seems to afflict our town. Let us finally talk about the

:55:42.:55:45.

last six months. Other aspects of the job that looking back you feel

:55:45.:55:55.
:55:55.:55:55.

you would have done differently? I don't think so. It is quite a

:55:55.:55:59.

challenge. I am presented with a blank sheet of paper and cities a

:55:59.:56:05.

job that no one has done before but if I wanted an easy life I would

:56:05.:56:09.

not have stood for this job. I stood for it because I wanted to

:56:09.:56:13.

make a difference and that is what I am determined to do. Thank you

:56:13.:56:15.

very much. In view of all the serious crime we

:56:15.:56:20.

have seen, has he made enough of the difference? I think he is doing

:56:20.:56:25.

the best he can under difficult circumstances. Obviously, I was a

:56:25.:56:29.

national role model and we used to go into schools and work on very

:56:29.:56:32.

similar issues, tried to intervene before young boys went into the

:56:32.:56:36.

criminal justice system. It was a scheme that was closed down in 2010,

:56:36.:56:40.

one of the first acts of the coalition government a false

:56:40.:56:45.

economy if you ask me. What Ollie Martins is facing an all Police And

:56:45.:56:49.

Crime Commissioner as are facing his massive cuts to Policing, 20%

:56:49.:56:53.

cut to Policing. I know they have to save �35 million alone in

:56:53.:56:57.

Bedfordshire and that will have an impact on community policing.

:56:57.:57:01.

Bone, do you think the new role of Police And Crime Commissioner as is

:57:01.:57:07.

effective in tackling serious and violent crime? Well, it seems to be

:57:07.:57:10.

working in Northamptonshire. Adams Simmons is a first-class

:57:10.:57:16.

commissioner and we have seen crime falling. I run a constant survey, a

:57:16.:57:20.

tracking survey in my constituency listening to Wellingborough and

:57:20.:57:24.

Rushton and crime used to be the number one issue when Labour was in

:57:24.:57:28.

power and that has now dropped to the 4th issue in the survey. It

:57:28.:57:31.

seems to be that what we are doing here is working and that is the

:57:31.:57:37.

general picture across the country. I think if we are driving crime

:57:37.:57:40.

down we must be doing something right. Crime commissioners are

:57:40.:57:45.

working there, do you agree? No, I think Ollie Martins is doing the

:57:45.:57:49.

best he can but the reality is that they are dealing with being under

:57:49.:57:52.

resource than they also feel that their priorities are quite unclear.

:57:52.:57:56.

I think we were not in favour of them and we are still not in favour

:57:56.:57:59.

of them. OK, well, before we say goodbye,

:57:59.:58:02.

Deborah McGurran has been looking at the right time to go and

:58:02.:58:05.

graceful exits in our political round-up of the week. Here it is,

:58:05.:58:13.

all in 60 seconds. The immigration minister visiting

:58:14.:58:17.

Cambridge was told that these -- visa restrictions for students who

:58:17.:58:22.

come here to study English must be relaxed. The clear message from the

:58:22.:58:26.

Government is that Britain is open for both business and sturdy for

:58:26.:58:30.

people around the world. Norfolk schools when the news for the wrong

:58:30.:58:35.

reasons as Ofsted raised concerns about 17 of them and six went into

:58:35.:58:39.

special measures. Abbesses leader claims the loss of the East of

:58:39.:58:43.

England Development Agency have made in -- life more difficult for

:58:43.:58:47.

technology start-ups in Cambridge. When it was closed down funding

:58:47.:58:52.

went and it was a policy disaster which had a big impact on the small

:58:52.:58:55.

start-up companies that were innovating around Cambridge.

:58:56.:58:59.

proposed new leader for Norfolk County Council might be considering

:58:59.:59:04.

when is the right time for a dignified exit after being rejected

:59:04.:59:10.

at a vote this week. association with the incinerator

:59:10.:59:19.

developments is something to close to many people will to support.

:59:19.:59:23.

have seen dignified exits from Alex Ferguson and David Beckham, what

:59:23.:59:28.

can politicians learn from them? Well, we do not really have that

:59:28.:59:32.

problem because we normally get fired long before away retirement

:59:32.:59:36.

date. That is the great advantage of the system, you can do them up.

:59:36.:59:40.

I guess the one person at the moment who might be thinking about

:59:40.:59:43.

a dignified exit is Nick Clegg. He has taken his party into government

:59:43.:59:48.

and driven them down in the opinion polls and probably wants to exit to

:59:48.:59:52.

Europe as a commissioner. Clive, when do you think it is time?

:59:52.:59:58.

think all politicians could learn from Sir Alex Ferguson's politics,

:59:58.:00:03.

he is a lifetime the Labour supporter. And the coalition should

:00:03.:00:08.

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