19/05/2013 Sunday Politics East


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Here in the East: The region's Eurosceptic MPs lead


the charge for an in-out referendum. And armed police take to the


streets of Luton, providing the local police commissioner with his


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2149 seconds


Hello, and welcome to the Sunday Politics here in the East. I'm


Amelia Reynolds. On the menu today: A large helping of Brussels. And


it's a subject giving many of the region's Tory MPs indigestion. 21


of them led the way last Wednesday, voting against the Government on


the Euro amendment. That's almost half of our Conservative


backbenchers critical of David Cameron's Queen speech. Arch


Eurosceptic Peter Bone is on our panel.


Plus, the new system of police commissioners is facing its biggest


operational test in Bedfordshire. Armed police are patrolling the


streets in Luton after a surge in gun crime. We ask the Police


Commissioner if he can deal with the crisis.


But first let's meet our guests. As I said, we have Peter Bone, the


Conservative MP for Wellingborough. He joins us from his home in


Rushden. And it's a first appearance on the


programme for Clive Lewis, Labour's prospective candidate in Norwich


South. Clive is no stranger to our studios. He works for the BBC here


in the East. But, has been working in a non-editorial capacity since


he became a candidate. So let's start with Europe, and a


question: Could some Tory MPs in marginal seats stand on a joint


ticket with UKIP at the next election? It's something the Mid


Bedfordshire MP Nadine Dorries has been talking about.


Birth mac is that a divided right, which is what we have now, only


allows the left to come through the middle. The Right has not been


divided in this way since the second world war and we have to


look at imaginative ways of healing the rift on the right of the


political arena and find a way to unite them and show the people out


there that if you vote Conservative, you are going to get that socially


conservative type MP that you want. It is interesting, have you been


considering the same move? Well, I think what Nadine was saying and


other Conservative MPs are saying is that we have to somehow


harnessed the enormous power of the right and we saw that in the local


elections. Nearly 50% of people either voted Conservative or UKIP


and if we could somehow unite that we would be returned to government


with a large majority and one of the ways... Are you interested in


joining the UKIP yourself? No, I have not and neither have my


association. You can be selected as a Conservative candidate and then


endorsed by UKIP, rather like we were a endorsed by the Unionists


and a Labour candidates are endorsed by the co-operative


candidates. Liberal Democrats are of course the two parties, the


Liberals and the Social Democrats. It is nothing new and one of the


ways we could unite the right. OK, nothing in you. Labour has had


people standing on a joint platform. The Labour and the co-operative R


joint sister parties. It is completely different. What we are


seeing here, as happy as I am to see the Tories tear themselves


apart on this matter, Nadine Dorries is box office. You wonder


what she will do next and what she will say. The reality is that why


they are fighting with each other everyone wakes up thinking about


dhurries -- Nadine Dorries and David Cameron should be thinking


about the economy. David Cameron has served no pacts and no deals,


or would you defy him? Of course not. I absolutely support David


Cameron. The Conservative Party is more united on Europe than we have


ever been. The vote last week, there was no Tory rebellion of


there. We all supported the amendment or abstained. It was the


Labour Party that was all over the place. We are very United. We are


staying with Europe. 21 of the region's Tory MPs defied David


Cameron on Wednesday, reflecting their deep seated dissatisfaction


with the coalition. Now attempts will be made to steer a referendum


bill onto the statute book, so we could have that in-out vote within


four years. Now, we've heard a lot this week about why we should leave


the EU, and in coming weeks we will be looking at those arguments,but


there is also a strong case, particularly in this region, for


staying in. This week Andrew Sinclair has been looking at some


of those who are keen on the European dream. For many people,


Europe is more than a political argument, it is part of their


everyday life. This company in Stowmarket processes 300,000 tonnes


of malt every year for the brewing and food industry. One third of its


trade is with Europe. Here, staying in the EU makes total sense. At the


moment we stand together with Europe and Britain going alone


would be too small on the international scene. Contracts are


made globally these days. If Britain was alone it would need a


lot of financial support. The legislation has protected trade


within Europe. A survey by the local chambers of commerce recently


found that 95% of firms believe withdrawing from the you would be a


step backwards for the region's economy. 55% of the East of


England's trade is with the EU and it is responsible for one in 10


jobs here in the UK. They have a 5 million potential customers


throughout Europe and the fact they have no administrative or tariff


restrictions means they can do business as easily with Berlin as


with Leeds. The eastern region has received more than �400 million in


grants from the EU in the last seven years. Companies find it easy


to invest here. The biggest investors bring money into how


power businesses and help create jobs in the east of Europe, those


are Germany and France. We are playing with fire if we put that at


risk. David Cameron famously told his party to stop banging on about


Europe. His reasoning was that most people do not really care about it.


A recent survey by Lord Ashcroft found that 4% of people regard our


future relations with EU as a future -- major issue. If one


country goes down then everyone suffers. At this school in


Cambridgeshire the sixth-form politics class is getting in some


last-minute revision. Everyone around this table has travelled to


Europe. Some are thinking about studying or working there. If there


were a vote today most would choose to stay in the year. So much goes


on in our lives that we do not notice that is done by the EU


Commission rather than our government but we have grown up


with it so there is no problem with it. As soon as we left we would see


so many bad things like so many of our rights could be withdrawn or we


would not get the benefits that we do see being part of the EU.


think the benefits at the moment outweigh the negatives. In fact the


Fabian Society recently found that 54% of 18 to 24-year-old woodwork -


- would vote to stay in the EU, just 31% would want to leave. There


is a strong argument for saying at the heart of Europe but they are


going to have to make a better case if they are to win a referendum.


What are your main reasons for wanting us out of the you? First of


all, can I correct your introduction. When you said most


Conservative MPs defied David Cameron, absolutely not, we are


putting forward David Cameron's policy. That little piece you ran


there was considerably unbalanced, in my view, towards an argument


that only the BBC can make. We are asking you now, let us not waste


any time, what I your views on why you want to come out of the EU. Let


us know. If we just keep to the economic arguments, it is quite


clear that we lose millions of jobs by being in the year. We have a


trade deficit with the EU of �30 billion a year, in other words more


imports into our country than we export which means more jobs in


Europe than in our country from being in the EU, where as the rest


of the world, we are in surplus. When you are free to trade with the


rest of the world we do rather well. The basic idea that somehow being


in the EU economic creates jobs, I am afraid that is complete rubbish.


We had in that package that 195% of firms believe that withdrawing from


the EU would be bad for the region's economy.


How come they are all round and you are right? Well, what I think you


have to say is what was the question that was put? Nobody is


seriously suggesting that we wouldn't trade with the EU and a


thing that was the issue that those businesses were referring to. What


would happen is there would be a free-trade area, rather like I


guess Norway and Switzerland to were doing rather well by not being


in the EU but having a free trade. -- area. We would be able to trade


with the the rest of the world without all of these regulations


imposed on business. If you ask business people will the real


problem is with their business they will say over-regulation and most


of those regulations come from the European Union. 95% of the British


companies do not have -- export at told the European Union and yet


they are affected by those regulations. Get rid of those


regulations and more people will be employed. Let us look at the latest


polling data on the E year. 46% are in favour of restoring while 30%


say they would vote to stay in. Labour are in the minority, if you


had a referendum you do not want one because you would lose a.


week the polls were showing it was virtually a second next so they


changed. The point that Peter is making about Europe is that if we


were to lead Europe everything would fall apart. As far as I am


concerned that is not true. Just look at the eastern region. �5


billion worth of exports go to France and Germany alone here.


Trade with France and Germany every year. That is much more than we


contribute. Leaving the EU would be a catastrophe for this country.


shouldn't people have the choice? We have said quite clearly that we


do not want a referendum. Our focus must be on the economy. I put the


0.2 Peter and he has said before that Labour are running scared


about Europe that we are the only party that has ever given the


British people a referendum on Europe so we are not taking lessons


from the Conservatives when it comes to referendums and democracy.


The reality is that our focus needs to be on the economy. You have


heard what Clive Lewis has said and Vince Cable has also criticised a


referendum for causing uncertainty among for business community and so


has no serious friend of the business community would consider


severing links with Brussels. You are damaging business and the


economy. I think that Vince Cable is gearing up his leadership


campaign to replace Nick Clegg. You know, I think he is probably being


a disaster as a Business Secretary. The sooner he leaves the Government


and runs for lead but -- leader of the Liberal Democrats is better


that -- better for everyone. Seaside towns, farming, transport


infrastructure has had a lot of money from Europe, but we are not


getting that there's much, are we? I think we have been talking a lot


about money here, and that is extremely important but something


else, and this is where me and Peter were completely and --


disagree, it is the idea of Europe. You think of European history,


centuries of bloodshed and warfare, it has come together in the last 40


or 50 years, the idea of people working together to improve the


environment and economy and people's rights at work, I call it


right at work, he called it red tape, that is the idea of Europe


and the kind of leadership Europe should be offering to the world.


You Lukacs Syria and Africa and this shows that people can come


together and work together for the common good and it is a fantastic


piece of leadership we can show the rest of the world. Peter Bone, when


the European campaign takes off and the business community is behind it,


you will have a real fight on your hands. Of course the bills this --


of course the business community will not be behind it, it is


rubbish that we are getting money from the EU, we pay �19 billion of


money into the EU and a kindly give us some back. They cost a fortune,


it costs jobs. Economically it is a nonsense to continue in the year in


the present situation. What we need to do is go back to what everybody


thought they were voting for, a common market, a free trade area,


which will be great for Europe and great for Britain. We will lose --


we will leave Europe now and moved on to law and order. In particular


the worrying surge in violence in Luton. This week a local man was


jailed for life for the murder of 19-year-old Delaney Brown last


September. The incident has been followed by a spate of violent


attacks, some involving guns. It's prompted the police to deploy


armed officers on the streets. And we've been speaking to people in


the Marsh Farm area, where much of the violence has taken place. At


the church's weekly community cafe people were ready and willing to


talk about how it's affected the area. It seems to be coming from


the authorities all over the place that Marsh Farm is Dodge City in


Bedfordshire. Where are all these guns coming from? That actually, in


the town, and I have been for a long time, they are being passed


around for money. What the police have done is they have put images


in the local media of people walking around with machine guns


that gives the impression that most Jan people in our town I'm fired --


of violence and their his gang war going on. There is a tiny minority


of young people that have an issue, it is a tiny minority. The


overwhelming majority are positive and doing good things. It is only


in the last few weeks that the Troubles have hit the headlines


again and we have seen increased police activity. I have done a lot


of work with Bedfordshire police in the past but not the new crime


commissioner. I think there is a leadership role. I have never met


him. I would challenge him to come and see our group and see what we


are doing. Please come and see what we are doing on the streets.


would say to him that you probably need to up the public perception of


what is happening, because it does not come out on the streets as


though it is happening that way. anything more goes wrong, his


standing and his position is reducing all the time.


Well, earlier this week Etholle George spoke to the Police and


Crime Commissioner for Bedfordshire, Olly Martins. She began by asking


him how he would respond to the comment that Marsh Farm is


perceived to be just like Dodge City.


What I hear from people is that there is quite strong support for


the response that the police have now put in there. The most


important thing is that this does not become the norm. The extended


use of stop-and-search powers, the armed police walking around the


estate, must not become the norm. As I say, at the moment, people are


saying it is an appropriate response to the situation we have


seen in the last few weeks. Where are the guns coming from and where


can you not get rid of them? As you heard in the report we are talking


about a very small number, a very small criminal element in the west


of Luton, of perhaps 20 or 30 people. We have to keep things in


perspective. This is a big test for your role. People are expecting you


to do something. Yes, that is why I thought it was important to go out


with a local member of parliament and the local council to listen to


people and hear what they have to say about the situation. With due


respect, you have had six months to let that visit and yet it has taken


six months to do so. Well, I am the Police And Crime Commissioner for


the whole of Bedfordshire. I have had quite a lot of other things to


do in the last six months, including appointing a new chief


constable and I do live in the town of Luton so I have a fairly good


understanding of the challenges that we face here. With due respect,


his and guns and gun crime on the streets of Luton higher up your


agenda? Well, it is, and what we need to see is that these things


come in cycles. A few years ago we had a similar spate of incidents


which ended in a large gang being broken up and sentenced to a long


time in prison. What I want to try and achieve as police and crime


Commission is to stop a cycle, to workout who are the young people


who are at risk of becoming criminals, and interrupt that


journey so that we can stop the cycle of criminality and violence


that sometimes seems to afflict our town. Let us finally talk about the


last six months. Other aspects of the job that looking back you feel


you would have done differently? I don't think so. It is quite a


challenge. I am presented with a blank sheet of paper and cities a


job that no one has done before but if I wanted an easy life I would


not have stood for this job. I stood for it because I wanted to


make a difference and that is what I am determined to do. Thank you


very much. In view of all the serious crime we


have seen, has he made enough of the difference? I think he is doing


the best he can under difficult circumstances. Obviously, I was a


national role model and we used to go into schools and work on very


similar issues, tried to intervene before young boys went into the


criminal justice system. It was a scheme that was closed down in 2010,


one of the first acts of the coalition government a false


economy if you ask me. What Ollie Martins is facing an all Police And


Crime Commissioner as are facing his massive cuts to Policing, 20%


cut to Policing. I know they have to save �35 million alone in


Bedfordshire and that will have an impact on community policing.


Bone, do you think the new role of Police And Crime Commissioner as is


effective in tackling serious and violent crime? Well, it seems to be


working in Northamptonshire. Adams Simmons is a first-class


commissioner and we have seen crime falling. I run a constant survey, a


tracking survey in my constituency listening to Wellingborough and


Rushton and crime used to be the number one issue when Labour was in


power and that has now dropped to the 4th issue in the survey. It


seems to be that what we are doing here is working and that is the


general picture across the country. I think if we are driving crime


down we must be doing something right. Crime commissioners are


working there, do you agree? No, I think Ollie Martins is doing the


best he can but the reality is that they are dealing with being under


resource than they also feel that their priorities are quite unclear.


I think we were not in favour of them and we are still not in favour


of them. OK, well, before we say goodbye,


Deborah McGurran has been looking at the right time to go and


graceful exits in our political round-up of the week. Here it is,


all in 60 seconds. The immigration minister visiting


Cambridge was told that these -- visa restrictions for students who


come here to study English must be relaxed. The clear message from the


Government is that Britain is open for both business and sturdy for


people around the world. Norfolk schools when the news for the wrong


reasons as Ofsted raised concerns about 17 of them and six went into


special measures. Abbesses leader claims the loss of the East of


England Development Agency have made in -- life more difficult for


technology start-ups in Cambridge. When it was closed down funding


went and it was a policy disaster which had a big impact on the small


start-up companies that were innovating around Cambridge.


proposed new leader for Norfolk County Council might be considering


when is the right time for a dignified exit after being rejected


at a vote this week. association with the incinerator


developments is something to close to many people will to support.


have seen dignified exits from Alex Ferguson and David Beckham, what


can politicians learn from them? Well, we do not really have that


problem because we normally get fired long before away retirement


date. That is the great advantage of the system, you can do them up.


I guess the one person at the moment who might be thinking about


a dignified exit is Nick Clegg. He has taken his party into government


and driven them down in the opinion polls and probably wants to exit to


Europe as a commissioner. Clive, when do you think it is time?


think all politicians could learn from Sir Alex Ferguson's politics,


he is a lifetime the Labour supporter. And the coalition should


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