02/06/2013 Sunday Politics East

county councils bring sweeping weather and decisions in Europe, see

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2447 seconds

of the programme. I'm Etholle George. This week we're down on the

farm, where it's less of a rural idyll than an agricultural disaster

area. More farmers than ever have been badly affected thanks to the

weather this year. Particularly the dairy industry, where many are still

getting less for their milk than it costs to produce. It has not been

easy. For the work we have to do, there is not enough money in Ed at

the moment. For the last couple of years, we have really struggled.

And the fallout from the County Council elections continues, with

the UK Independence Party taking a higher profile in the East than ever

before. It's a rainbow coalition for Norfolk. UKIP are the main

opposition, which has given the county its first Labour leader for

more than a decade. We speak to him later. But first to our guests.

Geoffrey Van Orden, Conservative member of the European Parliament

for the East. And Richard Howitt, the East's Labour MEP. And a story

this week about the exploitation of thousands of migrant workers who are

desperate for somewhere to live. These are the pictures from just one

town, Wisbech, where there are more than 1,000 overcrowded and

unlicensed properties. Whole families with young children are

sharing one room and there are cases of 20 people living in each house.

Geoffrey Van Orden, a big problem across the region, so what is to be

done? Of course, it is appalling what we are seeing, and we have to

properly in force the law as far as these dwellings are concerned and

the conditions in which people are living. It points to a wider

problem, the number of migrants coming from eastern Europe and

elsewhere, but in other region particularly, from eastern Europe,

and concentrated in areas such as Wisbech. I was there a couple of

weeks ago campaigning and I saw for myself the numbers of people from

Latvia, Lithuania and Poland and other places. But... I have to say,

we are doing more about this and we need greater opportunities for local

people. Richard Howitt, is this is what is meant as freedom of

movement? It is good you did this Ed -- did this investigation. I think

people's real concern is not just numbers, and numbers game that they

can never win, it is about fear for your -- you are less likely to get a

job because someone else has taken it. If migrant workers are treated

fairly, with proper housing and wages, they will not undercut local

Labour. Thank you both very much for the moment. Now to the plight of our

farmers. While politicians wrestle with reforms in Europe, farmers are

doing battle against the elements. An unprecedented 90% of them are

being pushed closer to the breadline. And nowhere is that more

true than in the dairy industry. The crisis continues, despite coalition

hopes for a voluntary code of practice.

The grass still has not grown much on this cold, wet nurse land in

South Norfolk. -- marshland. But they had run out of feed, so they

had to be put out on the land. is not enough money in it at the

moment for the work we have to do. We have struggled. Do you feel like

giving up? It has come to that. It has crossed my mind, but hopefully,

we have now crossed a low-cost system and we can see a

breakthrough. It is no better in the chicken shed, where the price for

eggs matches the price of the. one year ago, -- the price of feed.

About one year ago, we did not think we could carry on. Why did you carry

on? We wanted to see what would happen.

They reckon they get 1p per litre for their milk because they have not

signed up to the voluntary code of practice, and they are also losing

600 �600 per year in environmental subsidies from Europe -- �6,600 per

year in environmental subsidies for neuro. -- Europe. We are in the

final round of the Common Agricultural Policy's reform

negotiations, with hope a deal can be struck in June. The National

Farmers' Union wants to make sure any budget cuts are spread across

the EU and don't analyse farmers here. Unfortunately, the UK

Government does not put farming at the top of its priorities. The

French have already done a deal to get an extra 1 billion euros for

their farmers. I am worried, as this horse trading goes on for weeks,

English farmers in particular, the ones I represent, will be sold down

the river. Even this week's Suffolk show could not dodge the bad weather

that has caused havoc. We are at least one month late coming into the

summer. We had summing -- we are having major problems. We are about

three weeks to one month late and that has to relate, especially as we

are still called in May, to a later harvest. I am not sure it can catch

up. Yet they are managing to bottles hundreds of metres for a growing

rapeseed oil market. While the market for milk really breaks even.

This farm has been in the family for three generations, but cannot

provide a future for two sons. love the animals here and love to

see them out. Earlier this week, Andrew Sinclair

spoke to Sir James Paice, who is himself a farmer. He was the Farming

Minister that introduced the voluntary code of practice for the

dairy industry before he was moved from his post.

I hope that the rest of those processors will sign up, that the

organisation, of which they are all members, will exert more Prince --

pressure, and all the pressure it can, because this was a deal done

between both sides of the industry, with government as a catalyst to

make it happen. Hopefully, a relationship between producers and

processors will carry them into the future. Wouldn't a mandatory scheme

be better? It is still there, and it is up to the present ministers to do

that to introduce it. Do you think we should? Do not forget, we

launched this in September, the day I lost my job as minister, and we

knew it would be at least this April before it would be up and running,

so it is early days to make a judgement. But the job of

legislation is still available, but limited, because it is the EU that

can only address certain issues. if that is not enough, there are no

worries about CAP reform, and future payments, our farmers right to be

worried? I think they are, and I think this reform of CAP was a great

opportunity for Europe as a whole to look forward. We put the days of

surpluses and butter and milk lakes behind us and we are looking at a

period of 30-40 years we have the world could be short of food and we

need to refocus the CAP. That opportunity has not been grasped by

anyone. What we are seeing now is going to be a mess, not resolved,

not satisfactory for anybody in Europe, but I certainly think that

is a risk that British farmers, particularly, could lose out from

some discussions. Why are we doing so badly? We hear reports the French

have an extra �1 billion. The dead. Why are we getting this wrong

mission marked -- they did. When these decisions were taken, such as

with France, and switching money, and the different arms of the CAP,

those decisions were taken at the behest of the Treasury, rather than

in the best interests of British farmers. One criticism I have heard

from British farmers is many people in government, particularly the

Treasury and civil servants, do not understand farming. Do you think

that is true? I think it is true. I have no doubt after two and a half

years in government, and a huge section does not understand farming,

and not keeping up to speed with changes. Some of the rhetoric is

still about those days of and cutting production and farmers being

subsidised. They have not caught up. Geoffrey Van Orden, a damning

indictment that the Treasury does not understand farming. It is very

difficult area and that is no doubt, after the last reform discussions,

many of us were disappointed that we were not able to do more for British

farmers in the way that they want. Over the years, over decades now,

we're British farmers have not got a fair section of the CAP payments. At

the moment, something like 50 billion per year is spent on Sun,

and British farmers get about 3 billion of that. People watching

will be wondering what you as Europe-1-macro are doing, surely it

is your job to negotiate on farmers behalf? -- as MEPs. There are some

differences. We have heard that this is a government that cares more

about cutting the amount going down rather than how it is spent. There

was one attack on George Osborne the from a conservative. There are clear

dividing lines. The National farmers union once a common policy as

possible. It does not want other countries, such as the French,

getting money under the table and then missing out. Yet you and your

colleagues voted against a more competitive CAP. There are many

areas we are, very consciously, we wanted to help local farmers.

Sometimes, we find ourselves not voting in the way the government

like. Can I just introduce what our position is as UK farming goes? Open

Europe have put some figures David Cameron had the chance to

challenge that money going to the friends and chose not to do so. One

environment, we should have environmental compliance for the

money going to farmers. Farmers are stewards of the environment, many

supporting this, yet the Conservative MEPs voted against

this. We want to see British farmers having higher standards of welfare.

Exactly. But conservatives voted against it. We are very strong

supporters of animal welfare. We want to see incentives to farmers

that are productive and producing sustainable farming. That is what we

want to encourage. You say that. You voted differently in March. For Sir

James Paice to come on, Cambridge Tory MP, man who abolished the

agricultural wages board, meaning some people lose holidays and sick

pay, I think... I just want to... are trying to create a more

efficient farming industry across the United Kingdom. Of course that

is what we want. But those figures revealed a distortion in where the

money goes. It was already geared against us, and British farmers, in

the European Union. That has been the system for many years. We shall

leave that they are for now. Thank you. -- leave that there. A fresh

wind is blowing through some of our county halls following this month's

elections. With both Cambridgeshire and Norfolk now in no overall

control. Strange bedfellows are being forced to work together. In

Norfolk, a rainbow alliance of Labour, the Liberal Democrats, UKIP

and the Greens has been formed. While in Cambridgeshire, the

Conservatives are being allowed to run a minority administration. And

there's another big change coming in. Both authorities have voted to

do away with the cabinet system of local government. Instead of a

handful of members from the ruling party making all the decisions,

committees of councillors will be set up to run things. The key thing

about it is bringing back what we see as the democratic deficit lost

over years, making decision processes back in the chamber over

there, and what it has two B, so that is why we are united together

to bring that into existence, a committee system making decisions in

the chamber, to all 84 members. And not just our members, including

Conservative members as well. advocated the cabinet system,

because we need to respond to pressing issues. One of the reasons

it was introduced is because decision-making is so very slow and

the committee system. Take not the County Council, for example,

employing 25,000 people, a very large organisation, and we need to

be able to react and plan and do that accordingly and one of the

problems with the committee system is everyone works in silos

underneath their committee, not enough across the board working.

George Nobbs, the Labour leader of Norfolk Council, joins us from

Norwich. Why do you prefer the committee system? It is not just me,

it is four parties out of five in Norfolk County Council. What the

system advocated is decisions like the one about the incinerator of

Kings Lynn, dragging on for well over three years, still massive

protest, planning applications and enquiries, and that was a decision

made by a cabinet of ten people, where the council never had a chance

to discuss it. It may sound strange to people outside, but people do not

understand that the council does not vote on things at present, it is

made by a small group of people, and we are trying to change that.

you worried no decisions could be made? What a good decisions, but no

decisions. Quite the opposite. -- lots of good discussions, but no

decisions. Quite the opposite. It will take as a year to change the

system, because that is what the law says. This is not a Labour policy,

because other Labour administrations are not doing the same thing, and

this could be party political. cannot see how it could be if it was

not an across-the-board. Some other councils are adopting it. We must

get away from the silly idea that we must have dogma and local

government. The Conservatives have done things a certain way for

several years, they have had their own way, run roughshod, and assisted

them on nobody else. We have tried to do a different approach, with

several parties working together. UKIP, Liberal Democrats, Greens and

labour are four parties with different views on a huge range of

subjects, but coming together on this essential issue, for the people

of Norfolk themselves. Stay with us. Geoffrey Van Orden, labour and UKIP

coalition, strange bedfellows. All-macro absolutely. This was never

part of Labour policy. absolutely. This was never part of

the policy. I think what the Conservative leader of Norfolk has

suggested is perhaps there ought to be a discussion amongst all the

parties to work out the best way forward and that is the way to do

it. George Nobbs, do you disagree? think you are living in a fantasy

world. What was said was what do I have to do to become leader? You are

living... Richard Howitt, you are quite keen on this idea of

committees. I am keen on democracy, and the electorate spoke in May,

kicking the Conservatives out, and I am deeply proud as a Labour leader

of Norfolk County Council. On issues that George and labour really cares

about, and the Mehdi people of Norfolk, -- and the local people of

Norfolk, schools, for example. And they can deal with issues where the

Conservatives failed. More people voted conservative than for any

other party in Norfolk. More people voted for UKIP than was anticipated.

Perhaps, more right thinking voters than previously, but ending up with

a left leaning leader. How does that work? George Nobbs? Can I answer

some of those bizarre points. Most of the people that voted are

represented by the coalition I lead. Your idea is that 32% voted

conservative and get 100% of the government. That is going to end.

coalition more democratic? UKIP are not in the Cabinet and there are no

UKIP policies endorsed by Labour here. I give evidence against the

incinerator in Kings Lynn, and feel strongly it is a bad environmental

solution. The fact that as a new majority in Norfolk on that issue

alone, I celebrate. We shall leave it there. George Nobbs, thank you

for your time. We've seen some anniversaries this week. It's a year

since Mary Portas set out to revive our high streets and six months

since the introduction of Police and Crime Commissioners. Chris Bond

rounds it all up in 60 seconds. Tough times on the high street and

despite a cash injection from the regional Guru, Mary Portas, some

businesses are still in the slow lane. Meanwhile, speeding up heavy

traffic the aim of some Essex County Council us, who want a ban on

lorries taking over on the A12. Charles Clarke once ran the Home

Office, who this week criticised the cost and role of some recently

elected Police and Crime Commissioners. After six months, the

signs are not good and I see no positive response to the existence

of them. And reflecting on the positives and negatives after 20

years in Brussels, one MEP announced he will not stand for re-election.

If you go back to where we started, we were a group of people meeting

and talking shop, now with the Lisbon Treaty, we have real powers

and we can change government's laws.

Gentleman, Robert Sturdy, standing down before next year's elections.

Any of you planning on that? Not at all. Lots more to be done. Robert is

a decent man. It is a sign of the changing nature of the Tory party.

What about your plans? My ambition is for Jeffrey to retire when he

loses next year, and I am hopeful to carry on. Being an MEP takes up

time. What about ambitions beyond politics? One day, I will think

about my third career, but I am not ready yet, still a lot to be done in

the European Parliament and chairing -- and changing Europe policy. It

has been a wrong struggle, -- it has been a long struggle, but we're

getting there. I am proud to stay next year. I wish you good luck.

They are not stopping being MEPs any time soon. Thank you both very much

for joining us. That's all for now. Don't forget Deborah McGurran's blog

for all the latest political updates. Join us at 11 o'clock next