Browse content similar to 27/10/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Hope you enjoyed | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
the extra hour in bed, and that you've realised it's not 12:45. It's | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
11:45! It's getting stormy outside. But they're already battening down | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
the hatches at Number Ten because coalition splits are back, with | :00:50. | :00:51. | |
bust-ups over free schools and power bills. We'll speak to the Lib Dems, | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
and ask Labour who's conning whom over energy. | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
EU leaders have been meeting in Brussels. But how's David Cameron | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
getting on with that plan to change our relationship with Europe? We | :01:04. | :01:14. | |
were there to ask him. Have we got any powers back yet? DS! | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
Foreign companies own everything from our energy companies to our | :01:19. | :01:19. | |
railways. Does it matter Here in the east, the GP shortage. | :01:20. | :01:27. | |
It is a leading to consultations In London this week, there are twice | :01:28. | :01:34. | |
as many daily journeys made by bus than by tube, so why is the planned | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
investment in buses not keeping pace? | :01:38. | :01:45. | |
And with me, three journalists who've bravely agreed to hunker down | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
in the studio while Britain braces itself for massive storm winds, | :01:49. | :01:50. | |
tweeting their political forecasts with all the accuracy of Michael | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
Fish on hurricane watch. Helen Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt. | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
Now, sometimes coalition splits are over-egged, or dare we say even | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
occasionally stage-managed. But this week, we've seen what looks like the | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
genuine article. It turns out Nick Clegg has his doubts about the | :02:10. | :02:11. | |
coalition's flagship free schools policy. David Cameron doesn't much | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
like the green levies on our energy bills championed by the Lib Dems. | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
Neither of them seems to have bothered to tell the other that they | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
had their doubts. Who better to discuss these flare-ups than Lib Dem | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
Deputy Leader Simon Hughes? He joins me now. Welcome. Good morning. The | :02:27. | :02:37. | |
Lib Dems spent three years of sticking up for the coalition when | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
times were grim. Explain to me the logic of splitting from them when | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
times look better. We will stick with it for five years. It is | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
working arrangement, but not surprisingly, where there right | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
areas on which we disagree over where to go next, we will stand up. | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
It is going to be hard enough for the Lib Dems to get any credit for | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
the recovery, what ever it is. It will be even harder if you seem to | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
be semidetached and picky. The coalition has led on economic | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
policy, some of which were entirely from our stable. The one you have | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
heard about most often, a Lib Dem initiative, was to take people on | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
blowing comes out of tax. The recovery would not have happened, | :03:25. | :03:26. | |
there would not have been confidence in Britain, had there not been a | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
coalition government with us in it, making sure the same policies | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
produced fair outcomes. We are not going to leave the credit for any | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
growth - and there has been very good news this week. We have played | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
a part in that, and without us, it would not have happened. Does it not | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
underline the trust problem you have? You promised to abolish | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
tuition fees. You oppose nuclear power, now you are cheerleading the | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
first multi-billion pounds investment in nuclear generation. | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
You are dying out on your enthusiasm on green levies, and now they are up | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
for renegotiation. Why should we trust a word you say? In relation to | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
green levies, as you well know, just under 10% is to do with helping | :04:17. | :04:26. | |
energy and helping people. Unless there is continuing investment in | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
renewables, we will not have the British produced energy at cheaper | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
cost to keep those bills down in the future. At cheaper cost? Explain | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
that to me. Off-shore energy is twice the market rate. The costs of | :04:39. | :04:48. | |
renewables will increasingly come down. We have fantastic capacity to | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
produce the energy and deliver lots of jobs in the process. The parts of | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
the energy bill that may be up for renegotiation seems to be the part | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
where we subsidise to help either poor people pay less, or where we do | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
other things. Too insulated the homes? Are you up to putting that to | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
general taxation? Wouldn't that be progressive? I would. It would be | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
progressive. I would like to do for energy bills what the Chancellor has | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
done for road traffic users, drivers, which is too fuelled motor | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
fuel -- to freeze new to fall. That would mean there would be an | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
immediate relief this year, not waiting for the election. So there | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
is a deal to be done there? Yes We understand we have to take the | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
burden off the consumer, and also deal with the energy companies, who | :05:43. | :05:45. | |
look as if they are not paying all the tax they should be, and the | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
regulator, which doesn't regulate quickly enough to deal with the | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
issues coming down the track. We can toughen the regulator, and I hope | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
that the Chancellor, in the Autumn statement, was signalled that energy | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
companies will not be allowed to get away with not paying the taxes they | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
should. And this deal will allow energy prices to come down? Yes How | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
could David Laws, one of your ministers, proudly defend the record | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
of unqualified teachers working in free schools, and then stand | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
side-by-side with Mr Clegg, as he says he is against them? David Laws | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
was not proudly defending the fact that it is unqualified teachers He | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
said that some of the new, unqualified teachers in free schools | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
are doing a superb job. But you want to get rid of them? We want to make | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
sure that everybody coming into a free school ends up being qualified. | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
Ends up? Goes through a process that means they have qualifications. Just | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
as we said very clearly at the last election that the manifesto | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
curriculum in free schools should be the same as other schools. It looks | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
like Mr Clegg is picking a fight just for the sake of it. Mr Clegg | :07:04. | :07:10. | |
was taught by people who didn't have teaching qualifications in one of | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
the greatest schools in the land, if not the world. It didn't seem to do | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
him any harm. What is the problem? If you pay to go to a school, you | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
know what you're getting. But that is what a free school is. No, you | :07:24. | :07:30. | |
don't pay fees. A free school is parents taking the decisions, not | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
you, the politicians. We believe they would expect to guarantee is, | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
firstly that the minimum curriculum taught across the country is taught | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
in the free schools, and secondly, that the teachers there are | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
qualified. Someone who send their kids to private schools took a | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
decision to take -- to send their children there, even if the teachers | :07:52. | :07:58. | |
were unqualified, because they are experts in their field. Someone who | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
send their kids to free schools is because -- is their decision, not | :08:03. | :08:10. | |
yours. Because some of the free schools are new, and have never been | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
there before, parents need a guarantee that there are some basics | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
in place, whatever sort of school. So they need you to hold their hand? | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
It is not about holding hands, it is about having a minimum guarantee. | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
Our party made clear at our conference that this is a priority | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
for us. Nick Clegg reflects the view of the party, and I believe it is an | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
entirely rational thing to do. Nick Clegg complained that the Prime | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
Minister gave him only 30 minutes notice on the Prime Minister Buzz 's | :08:41. | :08:49. | |
U-turn on green levies. That is almost as little time as Nick Clegg | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
gave the Prime Minister on his U-turn on free schools. Aren't you | :08:54. | :08:56. | |
supposed to be partners? Green levies were under discussion in the | :08:57. | :09:05. | |
ministerial group before Wednesday, because we identified this as an | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
issue. We do that in a practical way. Sometimes there is only half an | :09:10. | :09:16. | |
hour's notice. We had even less than half an hour this morning! Simon | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
Hughes, thank you. So the price of energy is the big | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
battle ground in politics at the moment. 72% of people say that high | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
bills will influence the way they vote at the next election. Ed | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
Miliband has promised a price freeze after the next election, but will | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
the coalition turned the tables on Labour, with its proposal to roll | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
back green levies. Caroline Flint joins us from Sheffield. It looks | :09:47. | :09:54. | |
like the coalition will be able to take ?50 of energy bills, by | :09:55. | :10:02. | |
removing green levies. It is quite clear that different parts of the | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
government are running round waking up to the fact that the public feel | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
that this government has not done enough to listen to their concerns. | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
Last week, there was a classic case of the Prime Minister making up | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
policy literally at the dispatch box. Let's see what they say in the | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
autumn statement. The truth is, whatever the debate around green | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
levies, and I have always said we should look at value for money at | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
those green levies. Our argument is about acknowledging there is | :10:31. | :10:48. | |
something wrong with the way the market works, and the way those | :10:49. | :10:50. | |
companies are regulated. Behind our freeze for 20 months is a package of | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
proposals to reform this market I understand that, but you cannot tell | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
as the details about that. I can. You cannot give us the details about | :10:57. | :10:58. | |
reforming the market. We are going to do three things, and I think I | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
said this last time I was on the programme. First, we are going to | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
separate out the generation side from the supply side within the big | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
six. Secondly, we will have a energy pool, or power exchange, where all | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
energy will have to be traded in that pool. Thirdly, we will | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
establish a tougher regulator, because Ofgem is increasingly being | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
seen as not doing the job right I notice that you didn't mention any | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
reform of the current green and social taxes on the energy bill Is | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
it Labour's policy to maintain the existing green levies? In 2011, the | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
government chose to get rid of warm front, which was the publicly funded | :11:42. | :11:47. | |
through tracks a scheme to support new installation. When they got rid | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
of that, it was the first time we had a government since the 70s that | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
didn't have such a policy. What is your policy? We voted against that | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
because we believe it is wrong. We believe that the eco-scheme, a | :12:03. | :12:08. | |
government intervention which is ?47 of the ?112 on our bills each year, | :12:09. | :12:16. | |
is expensive, bureaucratic and isn't going to the fuel poor. I am up for | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
a debate on these issues. I am up for a discussion on what the | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
government should do and what these energy companies should do. We | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
cannot let Cameron all the energy companies off the hook from the way | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
in which they organise their businesses, and expect us to pay | :12:32. | :12:37. | |
ever increasing rises in our bills. There is ?112 of green levies on our | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
bills at the moment. Did you vote against any of them? We didn't, but | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
what I would say ease these were government imposed levies. When they | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
got rid of the government funded programme, Warm Front, they | :12:54. | :13:01. | |
introduced the eco-scheme. The eco-project is one of the ones where | :13:02. | :13:08. | |
the energy companies are saying it's too bureaucratic, and it is | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
proving more expensive than government estimates, apparently | :13:13. | :13:14. | |
doubled the amount the government thought. These things are all worth | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
looking at, but don't go to the heart of the issue. According to | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
official figures, on current plans, which you support, which you voted | :13:25. | :13:35. | |
for, households will be paying 1% more per unit of electricity by | :13:36. | :13:42. | |
2030. It puts your temporary freeze as just a blip. You support a 4 % | :13:43. | :13:51. | |
rise in our bills. I support making sure we secure for the future access | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
to energy that we can grow here in the UK, whether it is through | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
nuclear, wind or solar, or other technologies yet to be developed. We | :14:01. | :14:08. | |
should protect ourselves against energy costs we cannot control. The | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
truth is, it is every fair for you to put that point across, and I | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
accept that, but we need to hear the other side about the cost for bill | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
payers if we didn't invest in new, indigenous sources of energy supply | :14:23. | :14:25. | |
for the future, which, in the long run, will be cheaper and more | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
secure, and create the jobs we need. I think it is important to | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
have a debate about these issues, but they have to be seen in the | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
right context. If we stay stuck in the past, we will pay more and we | :14:39. | :14:45. | |
will not create jobs. How can you criticise the coalition's plans for | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
a new nuclear station, when jeering 13 years of a Labour government you | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
did not invest in a single nuclear plant? You sold off all our nuclear | :14:56. | :14:58. | |
technology to foreign companies Energy provision was put out to | :14:59. | :15:12. | |
private hands and there has been no obstacle in British law against | :15:13. | :15:21. | |
ownership outside the UK. Part of this is looking ahead. Because your | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
previous track record is so bad What we did decide under the | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
previous government, we came to the view, and there were discussions in | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
our party about this, that we did need to support a nuclear future. | :15:38. | :15:44. | |
At the time of that, David Cameron was one of those saying that | :15:45. | :15:47. | |
nuclear power should be a last resort. And as you said, the | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
Liberals did not support it. We stood up for that. We set in train | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
the green light of 10 sites, including Hinkley Point, for | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
nuclear development. I am glad to see that is making progress and we | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
should make more progress over the years ahead. We took a tough | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
decision when other governments had not done. You did not build a new | :16:11. | :16:18. | |
nuclear station. When you get back into power, will you build HS2? | :16:19. | :16:26. | |
That has not had a blank cheque from the Labour Party. I am in | :16:27. | :16:33. | |
favour of good infrastructure. Are you in favour of?, answer the | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
question? I have answered the question. It does not have a blank | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
cheque. If the prices are too high, we will review the decision when we | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
come back to vote on it. We will be looking at it closely. We have to | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
look for value for money and how it benefits the country. Have you | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
stocked up on jumpers this winter? I am perfectly all right with my | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
clothing. What is important, it is ridiculous for the Government to | :17:03. | :17:10. | |
suggest that the answer to the loss of trust in the energy companies is | :17:11. | :17:19. | |
to put on another jumper. The coalition has taken a long time | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
to come up with anything that can trump Ed Miliband's simple freezing | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
energy prices, vote for us. Are they on the brink of doing so? I do | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
not think so. They have had a problem that has dominated the | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
debate, talking about GDP, the figures came out on Friday and said, | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
well, and went back to talking about energy. My problem with what | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
David Cameron proposes is he agrees with the analysis that the Big Six | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
make too many profits. He wants to move the green levies into general | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
taxation, so that he looks like he is protecting the profits of the | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
energy companies. If the coalition can say they will take money off | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
the bills, does that change the game? I do not think the Liberal | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
Democrats are an obstacle to unwinding the green levies. I think | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
Nick Clegg is open to doing a deal, but the real obstacle is the carbon | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
reduction targets that we signed up to during the boom years. They were | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
ambitious I thought at the time From that we have the taxes and | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
clocking up of the supply-side of the economy. Unless he will revise | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
that, and build from first principles a new strategy, he | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
cannot do more than put a dent into green levies. He might say as I | :18:47. | :18:53. | |
have got to ?50 now and if you voters in in an overall majority, I | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
will look up what we have done in the better times and give you more. | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
I am sure he will do that. It might be ?50 of the Bill, but it will be | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
?50 on your general taxation bill, which would be more progressive | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
They will find it. We will never see it in general taxation. The | :19:13. | :19:19. | |
problem for the Coalition on what Ed Miliband has done is that it is | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
five weeks since he made that speech and it is all we are talking | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
about. David Cameron spent those five weeks trying to work out | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
whether Ed Miliband is a Marxist or whether he is connected to Middle | :19:33. | :19:35. | |
Britain. That is why Ed Miliband set the agenda. The coalition are | :19:36. | :19:41. | |
squabbling among themselves, looking petulant, on energy, and on | :19:42. | :19:48. | |
schools. Nobody is taking notice of the fact the economy is under way, | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
the recovery is under way. Ed Miliband has made the weather on | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
this. It UK has a relaxed attitude about | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
selling off assets based -- to companies based abroad. But this | :20:07. | :20:14. | |
week we have seen the Swiss owner of one of Scotland's largest | :20:15. | :20:16. | |
industrial sites, Grangemouth, come within a whisker of closing part of | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
it down. So should we care whether British assets have foreign owners? | :20:21. | :20:22. | |
Britain might be a nation of homeowners, but we appear to have | :20:23. | :20:25. | |
lost our taste for owning some of our biggest businesses. These are | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
among the crown jewels sold off in the past three decades to companies | :20:31. | :20:38. | |
based abroad. Roughly half of Britain's essential services have | :20:39. | :20:40. | |
overseas owners. The airport owner, British Airports Authority, is | :20:41. | :20:42. | |
owned by a Spanish company. Britain's largest water company | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
Thames, is owned by a consortium led by an Australian bank. Four out | :20:46. | :20:48. | |
of six of Britain's biggest energy companies are owned by overseas | :20:49. | :20:51. | |
giants, and one of these, EDF Energy, which is owned by the | :20:52. | :20:54. | |
French state, is building Britain's first nuclear power plant in a | :20:55. | :20:56. | |
generation, backed by Chinese investors. It's a similar story for | :20:57. | :21:04. | |
train operator Arriva, bought by a company owned by the German state. | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
So part of the railways privatised by the British government was | :21:10. | :21:11. | |
effectively re-nationalised by the German government. But does it | :21:12. | :21:21. | |
matter who owns these companies as long as the lights stay on, the | :21:22. | :21:24. | |
trains run on time, and we can still eat Cadbury's Dairy Milk? | :21:25. | :21:31. | |
We are joined by the general secretary of the RMT, Bob Crow, and | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
by venture capitalist Julie Meyer. They go head to head. | :21:36. | :21:43. | |
Have we seen the consequences of relying for essential services to | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
be foreign-owned? Four of the Big Six energy companies, Grangemouth, | :21:50. | :21:55. | |
owned by a tax exile in Switzerland. It is not good. I do not think | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
there is a cause and effect relationship between foreign | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
ownership and consumer prices. That is not the right comparison. We | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
need to be concerned about businesses represented the future, | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
businesses we are good at innovating for example in financial | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
services and the UK has a history of building businesses, such as | :22:20. | :22:26. | |
Monotypes. If we were not creating businesses here -- Monotise. Like | :22:27. | :22:36. | |
so many businesses creating products and services and creating | :22:37. | :22:46. | |
the shareholders. Should we allow hour essential services to be in | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
foreign ownership? It was demonstrated this week at | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
Grangemouth. If you do not own the industry, you do not own it. The | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
MPs of this country and the politicians in Scotland have no say, | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
they were consultants. Multinationals decide whether to | :23:05. | :23:11. | |
shut a company down. If that had been Unite union, they are the ones | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
who saved the jobs. They capitulated. They will come back, | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
like they have for the past 150 years, and capture again what they | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
lost. If it had closed, they would have lost their jobs for ever. If | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
the union had called the members up without a ballot for strike action, | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
there would have been uproar. This person in Switzerland can decide to | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
shut the entire industry down. The coalition, the Labour Party, as | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
well, when Labour was in government, they played a role of allowing | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
industries to go abroad, and it should be returned to public | :23:53. | :24:04. | |
ownership. Nestor. It has demonstrated that the Net comes | :24:05. | :24:12. | |
from new businesses. We must not be... When Daly motion was stopped | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
by the French government to be sold, it was an arrow to the heart of | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
French entrepreneurs. We must not create that culture in the UK. | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
Every train running in France is built in France. 90% of the trains | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
running in Germany are built in Germany. In Japan, it has to be | :24:32. | :24:42. | |
built in that country, and now an energy company in France is | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
reducing its nuclear capability in its own country and wants to make | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
profits out of the British industry to put back into it state industry. | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
That happened with the railway industry. They want to make money | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
at the expense of their own state companies. We sold off energy | :24:59. | :25:09. | |
production. How did we end up in a position where our nuclear capacity | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
will be built by a company owned by a socialist date, France, and | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
funded by a communist one, China, for vital infrastructure? I am not | :25:18. | :25:26. | |
suggesting that is in the national interest. I am saying we can pick | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
any one example and say it is a shame. The simple matter of the | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
fact is the owners are having to make decisions. Not just | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
Grangemouth, businesses are making decisions about what is the common | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
good. Not just in the shareholders' interest. For employees, customers. | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
What is in the common good when prices go up by 10% and the reason | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
is that 20 years ago they shut every coal pit down in this country, | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
the Germans kept theirs open and subsidised it and now we have the | :26:00. | :26:02. | |
Germans doing away with nuclear power and they have coal. Under the | :26:03. | :26:11. | |
Labour government, in 2008, the climate change Act was passed. Well | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
before that, and you know yourself, they shut down the coal mines to | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
smash the National Union of Mineworkers because they dared to | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
stand up for people in their community. Even if we wanted to | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
reopen the coalmines, it would be pointless. Under the 2008 Act, we | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
are not meant to burn more coal The can, as if you spent some of | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
the profits, you could have carbon catch up. That does not exist on a | :26:42. | :26:50. | |
massive scale. You are arguing the case, Julie Meyer, for | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
entrepreneurs to come to this country. Even Bob Crow is not | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
against that. We are trying to argue, should essential services be | :27:00. | :27:06. | |
in foreign hands? Not those in Silicon round about doing start ups. | :27:07. | :27:13. | |
I am trying to draw a broader principle than just energy. | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
Something like broadband services, also important to the functioning | :27:18. | :27:24. | |
of the economy. I believe in the UK's ability to innovate. When we | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
have businesses that play off broadband companies to get the best | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
prices for consumers. These new businesses and business models are | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
the best way. Not to control, but to influence. It will be a disaster. | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
Prices will go up and up as a result. Nissan in Sunderland, a | :27:47. | :27:52. | |
Japanese factory, some of the best cars and productivity. You want | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
that to be nationalised and bring it down to the standard of British | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
Leyland? It is not bring it down to the standard. The car manufacturing | :28:02. | :28:04. | |
base in this country has been wrecked. We make more cars now for | :28:05. | :28:11. | |
20 years -- than in 20 years. Ford's Dagenham produced some of | :28:12. | :28:17. | |
the best cars in the world. Did you buy one? I cannot drive. They moved | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
their plants to other countries where it was cheaper labour. Would | :28:24. | :28:30. | |
you nationalise Nissan? There should be one car industry that | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
produces cars for people. This week the EU summit was about Angela | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
Merkel's mobile phone being tapped, they call it a handy. We sent Adam | :28:41. | :28:49. | |
to Brussels and told him to ignore the business about phone-tapping | :28:50. | :28:52. | |
and investigate the Prime Minister's policy on Europe instead. | :28:53. | :29:02. | |
I have come to my first EU summit to see how David Cameron is getting on | :29:03. | :29:11. | |
with his strategy to claim power was back from Brussels. Got any powers | :29:12. | :29:20. | |
back yet? Yes! Which ones? Sadly, his fellow leaders were not as | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
forthcoming. Chancellor, are you going to give any powers back to | :29:26. | :29:31. | |
Britain? Has David Cameron asked you for any powers back? The president | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
of the commission just laughed, and listen to the Lithuanian President. | :29:36. | :29:44. | |
How is David Cameron's renegotiation strategy going? What's that? He | :29:45. | :29:54. | |
wants powers back for Britain. No one knows what powers David Cameron | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
actually wants. Even our usual allies, like Sweden, are bit | :29:59. | :30:06. | |
baffled. We actually don't know yet what is going through the UK | :30:07. | :30:12. | |
membership. We will await the finalisation of that first. You | :30:13. | :30:18. | |
should ask him, and then tell us! Here is someone who must know, the | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
Dutch Prime Minister, he is doing what we are doing, carrying out a | :30:24. | :30:29. | |
review of the EU powers, known as competencies in the jargon, before | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
negotiating to get some back. Have you had any negotiations with David | :30:35. | :30:37. | |
Cameron over what powers you can bring back from Brussels? That is | :30:38. | :30:44. | |
not on the agenda of this summit. Have you talked to him about it | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
This is not on the schedule for this summit. | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
David Cameron's advises tummy it is because he is playing the long game. | :30:55. | :31:05. | |
-- David Cameron's advisers tell me. At this summit, there was a task | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
force discussing how to cut EU red tape. Just how long this game is was | :31:12. | :31:18. | |
explained to me outside the summit, by the leader of the Conservatives | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
in the European Parliament. I think the behind-the-scenes negotiations | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
will start happening when the new commissioner is appointed later next | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
year. I think the detailed negotiations will start to happen | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
bubbly after the UK general election. That is when we will start | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
getting all of the detail of the horse trading, and real, Lake night | :31:41. | :31:49. | |
negotiations. Angela Merkel seems keen to rewrite the EU's main | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
treaties to deal with changes in the Eurozone, and that is the mechanism | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
David Cameron would use to renegotiate our membership. Everyone | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
here says his relationship with the German Chancellor is strong. So | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
after days in this building, here is how it looks. David Cameron has a | :32:07. | :32:12. | |
mountain to climb. It is climbable, but he isn't even in the foothills | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
yet. Has he even started packing his bags for the trip? | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
Joining us now, a man who knows a thing or two about the difficulties | :32:22. | :32:29. | |
Prime Minister 's face in Europe. Former Deputy Prime Minister, | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
Michael Heseltine. We are nine months from David Cameron's defining | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
speech on EU renegotiation. Can you think of one area of progress? I | :32:38. | :32:43. | |
don't know. And you don't know. And that's a good thing. Why is it a | :32:44. | :32:51. | |
good thing? Because the real progress goes on behind closed | :32:52. | :33:02. | |
doors. And only the most naive, because the real progress goes on | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
behind closed doors. Because, in this weary world, you and I, Andrew, | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
know full well that the moment you say, I making progress, people say, | :33:15. | :33:20. | |
where? And the machine goes to work to show that the progress isn't | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
enough. So you are much better off making progress as best you can in | :33:27. | :33:35. | |
the privacy of private diplomacy. It is a long journey ahead. In this | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
long journey, do you have a clear sense of the destination? Do you | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
have a clear sense of what powers Mr Cameron wants to negotiate? I have a | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
clear sense of the destination, which is a victory for the campaign | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
that he will win to stay inside the European community. That is the | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
agenda, and I have total support for that. I understand that, but if he | :34:03. | :34:10. | |
is incapable of getting any tangible sign of renegotiation, if he is able | :34:11. | :34:16. | |
only to do what Wilson did in 1 75, which was to get a couple of token | :34:17. | :34:22. | |
changes to our membership status, he goes into that referendum without | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
much to argue for. He has everything to argue for. He's got Britain's | :34:28. | :34:35. | |
vital role as a major contributor to the community. He's got Britain s | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
self interest as a major beneficiary, and Britain's vital | :34:40. | :34:47. | |
role in the City of London. He's got everything to argue for. He could | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
argue for that now. He could have a referendum now. He doesn't want one | :34:52. | :34:58. | |
now. I haven't any doubt that he will come back with something to | :34:59. | :35:06. | |
talk about. But it may be slightly different to what his critics, the | :35:07. | :35:14. | |
UK isolationist party people, want. He may, for example, have found that | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
allies within the community want change as well, and he may secure | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
changes in the way the community works, which would be a significant | :35:25. | :35:30. | |
argument within the referendum campaign. Let me give you an | :35:31. | :35:36. | |
example. I think it is a scandal that the European Commission don't | :35:37. | :35:42. | |
secure the auditing of some of the accounts. Perhaps that could be on | :35:43. | :35:49. | |
the agenda. He might find a lot of contributing countries, like | :35:50. | :35:51. | |
Germany, like Colin and, would be very keen. -- like Holland. David | :35:52. | :36:00. | |
vetoed the increase in the European budgets the other day, and he had a | :36:01. | :36:07. | |
lot of allies. So working within Europe on the things that people | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
paying the European bills want is fertile ground. Is John Major right | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
to call for a windfall tax on the energy companies? John is a very | :36:17. | :36:22. | |
cautious fellow. He doesn't say things without thinking them out. So | :36:23. | :36:29. | |
I was surprised that he went for a windfall tax. First of all, it is | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
retrospective, and secondly, it is difficult to predict what the | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
consequences will be. I am, myself, more interested in the other part of | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
his speech, which was talking about the need for the Conservative Party | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
to seek a wider horizon, to recognise what is happening to the | :36:50. | :36:53. | |
Conservative Party in the way in which its membership is shrinking | :36:54. | :37:01. | |
into a southeastern enclave. Are you in favour of a windfall tax? I am | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
not in favour of increasing any taxes. Do you share Iain Duncan | :37:07. | :37:17. | |
Smith's point of view on welfare reform? I think Iain Duncan Smith is | :37:18. | :37:27. | |
right. It is extremely difficult to do, but he is right to try. I think | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
public opinion is behind him, but it isn't easy, because on the fringe of | :37:34. | :37:43. | |
these issues there are genuine hard luck stories, and they are the ones | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
that become the focus of attention the moment you introduce change It | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
requires a lot of political skill to negotiate your way through that But | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
isn't Iain Duncan Smith right to invoke the beverage principle, that | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
you should be expected to make a contribution for the welfare you | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
depend on? Yes, he is. I will let you get your Sunday lunch. Thanks | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
for joining us. Coming up in just over 20 minutes, I | :38:16. | :38:16. | |
will be looking Hello and welcome to the Sunday | :38:17. | :38:38. | |
politics in the East. Coming up, the fiasco over Norfolk's controversial | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
waste incinerator and the warning that pulling the plug note could the | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
county council. The ultimate benchmark is, is this the right | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
thing for a Norfolk? I think it is and if this makes the unpopular then | :38:53. | :38:57. | |
that is tough luck. Plus the places where there are not enough GPs. Is | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
the new clinical commissioning system to blame? The huge | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
reorganisation and the instability it causes, people are not quite sure | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
what general practitioners are supposed to do. First, let's meet | :39:11. | :39:18. | |
our guests. Roz Scott, a former Liberal Democrat peer who started | :39:19. | :39:25. | |
her career on the Suffolk Council. And Gavin, the Labour MP for Suffolk | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
Council, welcome to you both. Now, a deal was secured by EDF and | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
the Chinese investors to build Britain's first nuclear power | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
station in the generation at Hinkley point in Somerset. That has had the | :39:41. | :39:47. | |
big knock`on effect here, because EDF are also responsible for a plan | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
to build a nuclear reactor on the coast. We will build Hinkley first | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
and then move onto Sizewell. There will be an overlap because it takes | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
ten years to build Hinkley point but we will move rapidly to follow | :40:03. | :40:08. | |
Hinkley point with Sizewell. Baroness Scott, you're obviously | :40:09. | :40:10. | |
fully behind a new Sizewell facility. The party has gone three | :40:11. | :40:17. | |
journey similar to the one I have personally made. 20 odd years ago I | :40:18. | :40:25. | |
was opposed to Sizewell, but climate change was not something that we | :40:26. | :40:27. | |
were talking about them. I still feel quite confident that most | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
climate change is man`made and finding forms of power that do not | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
use carbon are absolutely crucial. Sought not another Lib Dem U`turn | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
on. If the evidence changes then you must change with it. Gavin, should | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
be worried that we are expanding nuclear energy in this country when | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
other places are ditching it? There is a shortage in other countries, | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
like Japan, for obvious reasons. We need decent baseload capacity in the | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
system and that is what the clear can provide so you can bring in | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
other the energy forms such as offshore wind and something that I | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
was in the East know all about. Sizewell, Lake Hinkley, could | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
generate around 70% of the UK electricity supply. Back in 2008, | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
plans were put in motion for another much smaller power station at King | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
's Lynn in Norfolk. The idea was simple, and incinerator to burn | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
household rubbish, cut landfill and produce electricity. Five years on | :41:34. | :41:39. | |
it has still not been built and it has caused a political storm that | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
could land Norfolk county council with the ?20 million will. The local | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
people and MPs did not want it and know it is with the Secretary of | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
State for a final decision. Last week, the government withdrew PFI | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
funding for the project and opponents are deleted. It would be | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
madness for them to continue with it. The money was only incentive to | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
go with the most option. I do not believe that the project would have | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
benefited the Norfolk taxpayer, the economics were very, very | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
marginalised depended on volcanoes of factors. It is something we have | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
fought so hard for over the last three or four years and at last we | :42:22. | :42:27. | |
have some results. You get an idea of the strength of feeling. If the | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
council pulls out the fees a multi`million pound compensation | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
bill but equally, if it goes ahead because of the huge, too. The leader | :42:37. | :42:39. | |
of the Conservatives on Norfolk county council is Bill Barnett and | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
in his previous role as head of waste he was easily the's big | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
champion. He told us he believes the case for remains as strong as ever. | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
Norfolk produces 1 million tonnes of waste every year, a very large chunk | :42:56. | :43:01. | |
of that is now recyclable but that `` and that is great but there is | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
still hundreds of thousands of tonnes of waste which in the | :43:06. | :43:07. | |
foreseeable future will not be able to be recycled sought Norfolk county | :43:08. | :43:13. | |
council embarked on a project that has brought us to this point. On the | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
council will face massive costs whether it goes ahead or pulls out. | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
Yes, that is the way the land lies, I think you have two, you have a | :43:24. | :43:30. | |
contract that was signed and approved by the Treasury. It had to | :43:31. | :43:33. | |
meet Treasury requirements in order to qualify for the PFI credits so | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
the government knew exactly what the outcome for Norfolk would be when | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
the similarly withdrew them and that is why it is such a body blow for | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
Norfolk. Why Sony contract that saddles the authority with such | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
large cost of April out. You have stitched them up. Why sign a | :43:55. | :44:00. | |
contract if you are going to walk away? In any part of life a legally | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
binding contract is just that, legally binding. There are penalties | :44:05. | :44:11. | |
on both sides. If the construction company got up and walked away the | :44:12. | :44:14. | |
council would be justifiably upset seeing the aspect of this money had | :44:15. | :44:20. | |
gone forward in good faith. It only reflects the costs that both sides | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
have spent getting this far. The contract, and I think this is | :44:25. | :44:28. | |
something that is worth stressing, is not unique to Norfolk. This is | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
very similar to the contract that was used in the Suffolk to deliver | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
the Blakenham incinerator and this is something that Norfolk had to get | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
the agreement of both deaf and her Majesty 's government in the form of | :44:41. | :44:47. | |
the tragedy and to approve it. `` in the form of the tragedy. The amount | :44:48. | :44:53. | |
of waste and the investments necessary to deliver it are all | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
very, very expensive. If the authority decides to pull out on | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
Monday it will face bankruptcy. This is effectively a power station that | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
runs on rubbish. And generates, will generate as much electricity is | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
burning 200,000 tonnes of coal per year. Delivering any sort of power | :45:14. | :45:19. | |
station is an expensive business. A lot of the nuclear stories we have | :45:20. | :45:22. | |
had in the press this week show that. Councils have no choice now. | :45:23. | :45:26. | |
They must go ahead with the scheme or fees a massive ill which could | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
make them bankrupt. If we go ahead with the project the cancer will | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
save money, the waste will not go to landfill any more, each seat will be | :45:37. | :45:43. | |
used to generate electricity on a national level and bring revenue | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
back into the council. It will do all of the things that is meant to | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
do and that is why, for example, Suffolk county council are building | :45:52. | :45:54. | |
a very similar plans new Ipswich to do all the things for Suffolk that | :45:55. | :46:01. | |
this was planned to do in Norfolk. Do you ever wish you had not got | :46:02. | :46:04. | |
involved in this? The ultimate benchmark is, is this the great | :46:05. | :46:10. | |
thing for Norfolk? If it is in makes me personally unpopular then that is | :46:11. | :46:13. | |
tough luck for me because that is a decision we must make. Gavin Shuker, | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
there is a fundamental question of democracy here because no one in | :46:20. | :46:23. | |
West Norfolk once the incinerator but they could end up having it | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
because it is too expensive to ditch. I have shattered the | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
environment Department and watch the story unfold. It has been a slow | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
motion car crash from start to finish. That is why we now have a | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
Labour administration now running Norfolk county council and the | :46:40. | :46:42. | |
Conservatives have to take responsibility for what has happened | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
on their watch. I do not know what will happen on Monday but the | :46:47. | :46:48. | |
councillors have an impossible situation, set up entirely by the | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
Tory ministries should. Baroness Scott, do you have any sympathy with | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
the Conservatives? When they went into that it was with good | :46:59. | :47:01. | |
intentions, something must be done with Norfolk's waste. We have a bit | :47:02. | :47:08. | |
of an obsession with big project, and you can actually do small`scale | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
waste to energy which in many ways are an easier sell the local | :47:13. | :47:15. | |
community because what many people object to is the feeling that the | :47:16. | :47:21. | |
the dumping ground for waste. You can do that. It does not excite | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
people very much to think about energy, be money from energy going | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
back to the council. If you are treating community buildings and | :47:33. | :47:34. | |
making life better for local people the debate becomes rather different. | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
Because there is a question, a really difficult question, but what | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
we do with all this waste. You must take people along with you. The | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
council has gotten into a model, hasn't it, Gavin Shuker? Absolutely | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
but it is not only the council that is to blame, I have shattered this | :47:55. | :48:00. | |
department. The Treasury and DEFRA must take responsibility as well. | :48:01. | :48:06. | |
They awarded the money and they took it away. It is a terrible | :48:07. | :48:08. | |
administration that this administration must work through, | :48:09. | :48:11. | |
but I am sure they will work through it. The next thing you in Norfolk | :48:12. | :48:16. | |
realise that your services have been cut, don't forget who did that. That | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
is a terrible abdication of responsibility from the | :48:21. | :48:22. | |
Conservatives. We must leave it there. | :48:23. | :48:28. | |
How hard do you find it getting an appointment at your GP? Not easy? | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
You'd the bad news. Recent evidence shows it is likely to get worse. | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
Because that is not enough doctors. It has been blamed on the huge | :48:38. | :48:40. | |
changes in the health service made six months ago when GPs took control | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
of their budgets. The problem is particularly bad in Essex. | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
Doctor Smith here from the Mayflower medical centre. Hello, Doctor. How | :48:50. | :48:58. | |
are you? I'm fine, the one on my legs has gone down. Instead of | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
seeing her face`to`face, Doctor Alan Smith speaks to Valerie Watson on | :49:04. | :49:06. | |
the phone. This new way of working means that doctors can assess | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
whether a patient action means `` actually needs to come in and if | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
they do they can be seen more quickly. That is worth taking a look | :49:15. | :49:20. | |
at today if that is all right. That would be perfect, thank you. They | :49:21. | :49:26. | |
are short of two doctors at this practice and is now the remaining | :49:27. | :49:29. | |
ones can spend up to four hours per day on the phone. The old system of | :49:30. | :49:35. | |
falling AGP, given the number of resources and falling numbers of | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
GPs, is not working here. We have a two or three weeks with four | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
appointments. Did you imagine you would spend four hours per day on | :49:45. | :49:50. | |
the phone? Absolutely not. The traditional model of being a | :49:51. | :49:52. | |
doctor, dressing people face`to`face and helping them but with the way | :49:53. | :49:58. | |
things are, I do not see a choice for us as a practice. A recent | :49:59. | :50:01. | |
survey shows the problem is particularly acute in Essex. Last | :50:02. | :50:07. | |
year, GPs in north`east Essex had 1587 patients each which was already | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
higher than the national average. That has now risen to 18th `` that | :50:12. | :50:17. | |
is now risen to 1000 818 patients each which means fewer available | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
appointments. We have Cambridge above us and London beside us, so we | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
will always struggle. It is geography. This is a great place to | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
live but the attraction for doctors from other areas and doctors | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
entering the country, if they would get this part of the world, we will | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
look at London and Cambridge. Cabbie changes exacerbated the problem? I | :50:41. | :50:46. | |
am sure that. The huge new organisation, the instability that | :50:47. | :50:50. | |
this causes, people are not quite sure what general practice will look | :50:51. | :50:56. | |
at in a few years time. People are not sure if it will be here. It is | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
not just you in Essex there is a shortage, many have given you the | :51:01. | :51:06. | |
service are no bearing out. One of those is Doctor Tony Hillier, in awe | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
publisher GP who now works part`time. There is this buzz word | :51:11. | :51:14. | |
about the transformation of general practice, this idea that if you will | :51:15. | :51:20. | |
together into larger units and bigger organisations somehow you can | :51:21. | :51:25. | |
deliver these services and also deliver the Medicare. But that is | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
still dependent on having a workforce that can do that. That is | :51:30. | :51:35. | |
another big issue, recruitment and retention of people within the | :51:36. | :51:39. | |
practice. That is the problem here. It is likely that the way GPs work | :51:40. | :51:44. | |
will have to continue changing and more of us might face consultations | :51:45. | :51:50. | |
like this in the future. In an ideal world surely you want face`to`face. | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
I think so. And various pilot experiments on telly medicine etc | :51:57. | :52:03. | |
are very `` have very limited success. The Suffolk MP Dan. As a | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
practising doctor as well as the health minister. I asked if he wants | :52:08. | :52:13. | |
doctors to work over the phone. We need to see better use of | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
technology, this type of medicine was mentioned and it has been shown | :52:19. | :52:21. | |
to work very well in brutal part of the country, particularly Yorkshire, | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
there's a good example and everyone it has used very well to look after | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
all people and that is the kind of technology that we need to see | :52:30. | :52:32. | |
rolled out more widely. It helps take pressure off acute medical | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
services and allow more from the medical professionals to spend more | :52:38. | :52:40. | |
time with patients. Surely your diagnosis of when the patient walks | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
into the room. You must see that person and a telephone conversation | :52:47. | :52:49. | |
is not the same. It is always good to see patients but sometimes it is | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
about making sure that UCD patient who really needs to be seen and what | :52:54. | :53:00. | |
this kind of medicine can do is help give valuable advice to carers and | :53:01. | :53:02. | |
other people who are looking after people, patients with long`term | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
conditions like a mentor, and that is how it is working very well in | :53:07. | :53:13. | |
Airedale and Yorkshire. We have many patients, although patients with | :53:14. | :53:16. | |
multiple medical conditions through a living in the own homes and it is | :53:17. | :53:18. | |
important that we provide high`quality care for those people | :53:19. | :53:23. | |
in their own homes. And we must make sure that there is access to a GP | :53:24. | :53:26. | |
and medical care when the `` when it is appropriate. It also having the | :53:27. | :53:32. | |
right technology in place to support the dignity and care at home and in | :53:33. | :53:35. | |
the community is also important. Why do we not have enough GPs? That is | :53:36. | :53:40. | |
not actually true if you look at the East of England, there are issues in | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
Essex and measures being put in place to support people there to | :53:45. | :53:49. | |
choose to work in Essex but in the East of England we have a very | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
high, very good GP to patient ratio. Is not just Essex, there are | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
problems elsewhere. It is not just an isolated case in Essex. You have | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
picked on, as you would do any programme like this, a particular | :54:05. | :54:07. | |
situation that is a difficult situation and that is something that | :54:08. | :54:12. | |
health education in England, the body that recruits and looks after | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
patients to make sure we have the right stuff, are addressing as a | :54:18. | :54:22. | |
priority. But the whole of the region we have a very high number of | :54:23. | :54:25. | |
GPs relative to other parts of the country. This is a well rewarded job | :54:26. | :54:30. | |
and that is why we have a lot of GPs working in the East of England. In | :54:31. | :54:33. | |
the government changes responsible? Essex is not an isolated case, we | :54:34. | :54:38. | |
are seeing fewer GPs and how the government changes responsible? | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
People don't want to be counters, Commissioners... That is not true. | :54:44. | :54:50. | |
You are asserting but there are cases in all parts of the country | :54:51. | :54:52. | |
where there are difficulties recruiting GPs and we know that, but | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
nevertheless in our region as a whole we have more GPs per patient | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
than in any other part of the country. Those are the plain fact of | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
the matter because this is a desirable place to come and work. | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
Thank you very much. Gavin Shuker, would you be happy to | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
talk to you doctor over the phone about a problem you had one of your | :55:13. | :55:15. | |
family members at # in some cases, yes, but we know how the system when | :55:16. | :55:23. | |
you can see your GP team quickly. You can get treated well. That has a | :55:24. | :55:26. | |
system inherited by this government. What they have done is, we have put | :55:27. | :55:31. | |
any vast reorganisation of the NHS and the first effect of that is that | :55:32. | :55:35. | |
GPs are looking around and saying, when is the certainty and saying, | :55:36. | :55:38. | |
when is the certainty around and buy .com from? Secondly, we spent seven | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
years teaching at how to use a scalpel but no time teaching them | :55:43. | :55:45. | |
how to use a spreadsheet. These doctors are using their time to | :55:46. | :55:48. | |
manage the NHS when they should be treating patients. Baroness Scott, | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
Gavin Shuker said it is all your governments fault, the changes are | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
responsible for the shortage of GPs, is he right? I have been around | :55:58. | :56:00. | |
longer, and another Tony Blair getting into terrible trouble some | :56:01. | :56:05. | |
years ago because he was apparently unaware that people were having | :56:06. | :56:06. | |
difficulty getting appointments with GPs, so I think you actually have to | :56:07. | :56:14. | |
get the diagnosis right here. There has been a long`term problem of | :56:15. | :56:16. | |
fewer trainee doctors wanting to become GPs. They going to | :56:17. | :56:23. | |
consultancy. It is currently 35 or 40%. How do you change that? I am | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
not sure because for many of them it is more interesting and attractive | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
option to avoid a special is a much to work that way. I know the | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
government is aware of this and they say they are going to do various | :56:37. | :56:40. | |
things to try and persuade trainee doctors to move on, so I think we | :56:41. | :56:47. | |
must be really careful not to try addressing a long`term problem with | :56:48. | :56:50. | |
the short political fix. Would later change this model, Gavin Shuker? | :56:51. | :56:58. | |
This has been ruled out by a number of CCG 's, the problem is that the | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
government is no directing those. We would repeal this. We think this is | :57:04. | :57:11. | |
a problem. By Mac `` doesn't this make things worse? Basic problem | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
here is that at the local level there are not the resources being | :57:16. | :57:23. | |
shredded adequately. The mass of the organisation of the NHS that is | :57:24. | :57:26. | |
really happened must be settled down but we must find a weighted equally | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
the worst aspects of it. An example would be this, the competition | :57:32. | :57:33. | |
commission is deciding what is best for patients, not the NHS. That | :57:34. | :57:39. | |
can't be right. If we carry on down that route we will get more of what | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
we have seen here. I must stop here. It is time for our political | :57:45. | :57:58. | |
round`up of the week. At PMQ 's comedy the Norwich South | :57:59. | :58:00. | |
MP Simon Wright hailed the government's dualling of the | :58:01. | :58:04. | |
elephant. It was a big boost from the's economy. Can I urge the prime | :58:05. | :58:12. | |
minister to continue to East for the powerhouse for economic growth and | :58:13. | :58:14. | |
back the opportunities available to invest in the 80s to mainline? The | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
PM would not be drawn on it but had this to say. For once the shadow | :58:20. | :58:24. | |
chancellor said something I agree with because he wants to watch the | :58:25. | :58:29. | |
Canaries and he will be able to get there quicker. In a debate on | :58:30. | :58:32. | |
airports, some East MPs through the weeping in US city airport in the | :58:33. | :58:38. | |
Thames. That is not a single objection that has been raised to | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
stop this airport. Not a single objection. Number and a show | :58:44. | :58:49. | |
stopper. Nick Clegg went to nursery in Cambridge to trumpet free | :58:50. | :59:00. | |
childcare for poorer families. Baroness Scott, let me ask you, is | :59:01. | :59:04. | |
the selection meeting? Lib Dem saying, we're not the | :59:05. | :59:07. | |
Conservatives! Will we see more of it? I do not see why not. We are | :59:08. | :59:13. | |
around 18 months from an election in the political parties will start | :59:14. | :59:16. | |
talking about what the plan. Gavin has been doing it today and that is | :59:17. | :59:20. | |
quite right. Voters want to know what we are about and watch to make | :59:21. | :59:24. | |
an informed choice. If the split is there, will the Coalition holds? We | :59:25. | :59:28. | |
have always been to different parties, I don't know why people | :59:29. | :59:31. | |
find it so difficult to get their heads in this. We are to parties and | :59:32. | :59:36. | |
always wear and we remain to parties. As you get closer to the | :59:37. | :59:40. | |
election the focus moves on to what your policies are for beyond the | :59:41. | :59:47. | |
election. Gavin Shuker, commentators are saying we are seeing more of a | :59:48. | :59:50. | |
similarity with Labour and the Lib Dems moving closer together. What do | :59:51. | :59:56. | |
you think about that? We must judge the Lib Dems on their record in | :59:57. | :00:01. | |
government, and who has of things such as the schools and otherwise | :00:02. | :00:05. | |
will not fill voters. Having said that, there are many Lib Dems who | :00:06. | :00:09. | |
would be very pleased to get Ed Miliband into Downing Street just as | :00:10. | :00:12. | |
we have. If we end up in that situation then they will line up | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
behind this. What is the big challenge for the Lib Dems? The same | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
challenge it has always been, demonstrating that we are an | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
individual political force with their own beliefs but respecting the | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
ballot box in 2010, we have very many fewer seats and there is always | :00:31. | :00:34. | |
a balance at the punching your weight but being aware that we did | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
not actually win the election ourselves, so you must accept that | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
you go along with some things that you'd make not do if you are in | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
government by yourself. Difficult. It is. Do you fancy a coalition? | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
Would we are set nicely there? Is the possibility of equality, my | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
personal view is that it will be a Labour government next time round | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
and we will work hard for that. That is the most likely outcome because | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
of the structural shift in politics. If we end up in that situation there | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
are some prominent left`wing Lib Dems who could put up with. Thank | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
you both very much. That is all for now. You can keep in touch via our | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
website and you will find links to their to our blog. Goodbye. | :01:19. | :01:19. | |
website and you will find links to free school area for into that | :01:20. | :01:32. | |
Is Labour about to drop its support category. Thank you. | :01:33. | :01:32. | |
Is Labour about to drop its support for High Speed 2, a rail line the | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
party approved while in government? for High Speed 2, a rail line the | :01:37. | :01:47. | |
these green shoots? These are all questions for The Week Ahead. | :01:48. | :01:59. | |
So, HS2. Miss Flint wouldn't answer the question. She's in northern MP | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
too. Ed Balls is comparing it to the Millennium Dome. | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
too. Ed Balls is comparing it to the minute's silence for HS2? It will | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
not be quite as crude as that. They will not stand up and say, we | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
not be quite as crude as that. They senior Labour person said to me it | :02:20. | :02:19. | |
would be a bit senior Labour person said to me it | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
that Gordon Brown and Ed Balls set for the euro back in 97. They will | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
be chucking lots of questions into the air, and the questions will | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
create doubt, and will create the grounds for Labour to say, at some | :02:33. | :02:39. | |
point, we think there is a much much better way of spending the money. It | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
isn't ?42 billion, because that includes a contingency. Let's see | :02:44. | :02:50. | |
what Peter Mandelson had to say about HS2. He was in the government | :02:51. | :02:57. | |
when Labour supported it. Frankly, there was too much of the argument | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
that if everyone else has got a high-speed train, we should have won | :03:02. | :03:08. | |
too. Regardless of need, regardless of cost, and regardless of | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
alternatives. As a party, to be frank, we didn't feel like being | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
trumped by the zeal of the then opposition's support for the | :03:20. | :03:26. | |
high-speed train. We wanted, if anything, to upstage them. So they | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
didn't really need it, and we're only talking about ?50 billion. Why | :03:32. | :03:38. | |
would you take a decision involving ?50 billion in a serious way? For | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
David Cameron, if it becomes clear Labour is against it, he cannot | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
proceed. He indicated last week that he wouldn't proceed if the certainty | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
wasn't there. For Labour, HS2 is really a debate about the deficit by | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
proxy. They think that if you don't go ahead with HS2, that releases | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
tens of billions of pounds to spend on other things, such as public | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
services, without going into boring. I don't think that works because | :04:07. | :04:28. | |
there was a difference between cancelling something that already | :04:29. | :04:30. | |
exists to pay for something else, and cancelling something that does | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
not yet exist and will be paid for over decades to pay for something | :04:34. | :04:35. | |
here and now. Can Labour do this? I know that the line will be, we are | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
not going to build this railway because we are going to build | :04:40. | :04:41. | |
200,000 houses a year. Can they do this without political cost? I think | :04:42. | :04:43. | |
there will be political costs, but they will play this card of we have | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
changed our mind. I think Cameron's line has been very clever, saying we | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
cannot do it without labour. You can put it in two ways. Sorry, we cannot | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
go ahead with it, but Labour has ruined your chance of prosperity, or | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
they can tie themselves to it, and then Labour cannot attack it on | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
great grounds when costs do spire. You can write Labour's script right | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
now. They can say, if we were in charge, the financial management | :05:16. | :05:22. | |
would be much better. This raises some really important questions for | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
the government. They have utterly failed to make the case for HS2 | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
There is a real case to make. Between London and Birmingham it is | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
about capacity not speed. North of Birmingham, it is about | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
connectivity. It is a simple case to make, but it is only in the last | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
month that they have been making that case. It shows really terrible | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
complacency in the coalition that they haven't done that. We'll HS2 | :05:51. | :05:58. | |
happen or not? I think it will. For the reasons that Nick outlined, | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
there is not of a constituency for it amongst Northern areas. -- there | :06:03. | :06:11. | |
is enough of a constituency for it. There is private investment as well. | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
It isn't like Heathrow. I say no, because I think Labour will drop | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
their support for it. Caroline Flint said she was in favour of the | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
concept of trains generally, but will it go further than that? It is | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
difficult to see how it will go ahead if Labour will not support it | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
after setting five tests that it clearly will not meet. Some will | :06:39. | :06:46. | |
breathe a sigh of relief. Some will say, even in the 20th century, we | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
cannot build a proper rail network. The economy was another big story of | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
the week. We had those GDP figures. There is a video the Tories are | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
releasing. The world premiere is going to be here. Where's the red | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
carpet? It gives an indication of how the Tories will hand Mr Miliband | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
and labour in the run-up to the election. Let's have a look at it. | :07:11. | :07:43. | |
These graphics are even worse than the ones we use on our show! How on | :07:44. | :07:50. | |
earth would you expect that to go viral? It did have a strange feel | :07:51. | :07:58. | |
about it. It doesn't understand the Internet at all. Who is going to | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
read those little screens between it? Put a dog in it! However, | :08:04. | :08:15. | |
putting that aside, I have no idea that that is going to go viral. The | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
Tories are now operating - and I say Tories rather than the coalition - | :08:21. | :08:27. | |
on the assumption that the economy is improving and will continue to | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
improve, and that that will become more obvious as 2014 goes on. We | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
just saw their how they will fight the campaign. Yes, and at the | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
crucial moment, you will reach the point where wages. To rise at a | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
faster pace than inflation, and then people will start to, in the words | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
of Harold Macmillan, feel that they have never had it so good. That is | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
the key moment. If the economy is growing, there is a rule of thumb | :08:58. | :09:06. | |
that the government should get a benefit. But it doesn't always work | :09:07. | :09:08. | |
like that. The fundamental point here is that Ed Miliband has had a | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
great month. He has totally set the agenda. He has set the agenda with | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
something - freezing energy prices - that may not work. That video shows | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
that the Conservatives want to get the debate back to the | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
fundamentals. That this is a party that told us for three years that | :09:26. | :09:33. | |
this coalition was telling us to -- was taking us to hell on a handcart. | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
That doesn't seem to have happened. The energy price was a very clever | :09:39. | :09:45. | |
thing, at the party conference season, which now seems years ago. | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
They saw that the recovery was going to happen, so they changed the | :09:50. | :09:56. | |
debate to living standards. Some economists are now privately | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
expecting growth to be 3% next year, which was inconceivable for five | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
months ago. If growth is 3% next year, living standards will start to | :10:06. | :10:07. | |
rise again. Where does Labour go then? I would go further, and say | :10:08. | :10:14. | |
that even though Ed Miliband has made a small political victory on | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
living standards, it hasn't registered in the polls. Those polls | :10:19. | :10:25. | |
have been contracted since April -- have been contracting since April. | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
That macro economic story matters more than the issue of living | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
standards. The interesting thing about the recovery is it confounds | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
everybody. No one was predicting, not the Treasury, not the media not | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
the IMF, not the academics, and the only people I can think of... I fit | :10:45. | :10:51. | |
-- I thought they knew everything! The only people I know who did are | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
one adviser who is very close to George Osborne, and the clever hedge | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
fund is who were buying British equities back in January. Because | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
the Treasury's record is so appalling, no one believe them, but | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
they were saying around February, March this year, that by the end of | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
the summer, the recovery would be gathering momentum. For once, they | :11:16. | :11:23. | |
turned out to be right! They said that the economy would be going gang | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
bust is! Where did the new Tory voters come from? I agree, if the | :11:27. | :11:34. | |
economic recovery continues, the coalition will be stronger. But | :11:35. | :11:43. | |
where will they get new voters from? For people who sign up to help to | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
buy, they will be locked into nice mortgages at a low interest rate, | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
and just as you go into a general election, if you are getting 3% | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
growth and unemployment is down the Bank of England will have to review | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
their interest rates. People who are getting nice interest rates now may | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
find that it is not like that in a few months time. The point John | :12:06. | :12:12. | |
Major was making implicitly was that Mrs Thatcher could speak to people | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
on low incomes. John Major could not speak to them -- John Major could | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
speak to them. But this coalition cannot speak to them. This idea | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
about the reshuffle was that David Cameron wanted more Northern voices, | :12:26. | :12:33. | |
more women, to make it look like it was not a party of seven men. When | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
David Cameron became leader, John Major said, I do not speak very | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
often, but when I do, I will help you, because I think you are good | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
thing and I do not want to be like Margaret Thatcher. But that speech | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
was clearly a lament for the party he believed that David Cameron was | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
going to lead and create, but that isn't happening. And energy prices | :12:57. | :13:03. | |
continue into this coming week. We have the companies going before a | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
select committee. My information is they are sending along the secondary | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
division, not the boss. How can they get along -- get away with that I | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
got the letter through from British Gas this week explaining why my | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
bills are going up, and at no point since this became a story have any | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
of the big companies handled it well. I will have to leave it there. | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
Make sure you pay your bill! That's it for today. The Daily Politics is | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
back on BBC Two tomorrow. I will be back here on BBC One next Sunday. | :13:38. | :13:44. | |
Remember, if it's Sunday, it is The Sunday Politics. | :13:45. | :13:51. |