03/11/2013 Sunday Politics East

Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. It began as

Plebgate, now it is Plodgate. The evidence of three police officers to

MPs is branded a great work of fiction. They tried to intimidate

the Grangemouth bosses, but in the end it was the union that

capitulated. I will ask Len McCluskey about Unite union's strong

arm tactics at Grangemouth and Falkirk. They preach women should be

sidelined and confined to the private sphere. They argued they

should be covered up. In Norwich, plans to make the EU

Goodbye. In Norwich, plans to make the EU

bigger, could In Norwich, plans to make the EU

our midst. In London why one local authority is investigating --

investing thousands of pounds in a GPS tracking system to keep tabs on

its staff. With me as always, the best and the

brightest political panel, Helen Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt

who will be tweeting their humiliating climb-down is what they

got wrong last week in the programme. If this can happen it to

a Cabinet minister, what hope is there for anyone else? Thus the Home

Affairs Select Committee concluded what many already thought about the

treatment of Andrew Mitchell by three self-styled PC plebs. They met

him to clear the air over what did or did not happen when he was

prevented from ramming his bike through the Downing Street gates.

But the officers gave the media and inaccurate account of that meeting.

Two of them are even accused of misleading the Commons committee.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission will now reopen there

enquiry. This is not a story about Andrew Mitchell, it is about the

police. Keith Vaz is often in high dudgeon and this is the highest dad

and I have seen him in for some time. They could be held for

contempt of Parliament and technically they could be sent to

prison. It has blown up into an enormous story. I do not know what

is worse, the police trying to stitch up a Cabinet member and try

to mislead the media or the incompetence they have done it from

day one. That is quite good. I would sleep more soundly at night if I

knew the pleas were good at this. It is the incompetence that shocks me.

And this is just a sideshow. We are still waiting on the main report as

to what exactly happened outside Downing Street gates. But that not

will be good for the police either. The file has gone from the

Metropolitan police to the CPS, so we are limited about what we can

say. This is about the police Federation. They were set up under

statute in 1990 as a deal in which a police would not go on strike. This

is a political campaign to get a Cabinet minister out and the legacy

of this is the police Federation will have to be reformed. We will

keep an eye on it. They were Ed Miliband's union backers, they swung

the Labour leadership for him in 2010. Now the Unite union looks like

his biggest headache. The Sunday Times has seen extracts of the

report into the alleged vote rigging to select a Labour candidate in

Falkirk. There was evidence of coercion and Gregory as well as

deliberate attempt to frustrate the enquiry. We will be speaking to Len

McCluskey, the Unite union's General Secretary, in a moment. First out

the saga began an almost ended up with the loss of 800 jobs at a

petrochemical plant in Grangemouth. Unite were key players in the

Grangemouth dispute and the union headed by Len McCluskey has come

under fire for its intimidator Tariq tactics. In one instance

demonstrators complete with an inflatable rat picketed the home of

a INEOS director. The police were called. It was part of a strategy

the union called leverage. But turning up at people's houses seems

to represent an escalation. At the centre of the rout was Steve in

deals -- Stephen Denes. INEOS launched an investigation into him

as he was suspected of using company time to engineer the selection of

labour's candidate in Falkirk. That candidate was Karie Murphy, a friend

of Len McCluskey. Stevie Deans resigned last week and denies any

wrongdoing, but it capped a dramatic climb-down by Unite union. Len

McCluskey joins me now. Thanks to the Sunday Times we now know what is

in this labour report on the Falkirk vote rigging. Forgery, coercion

trickery, manipulation. You must be ashamed of how Unite union behaved

in Falkirk. The Sunday Times article is lazy journalism. There is nothing

new in the article. This was all dealt with by the Labour Party in

the summer. We rejected those allegations then and we said we had

done nothing wrong and both the Labour Party and the police in

Scotland indicated there had been no wrongdoing. The report itself says

you were trying to thwart the investigation. First you tried to

fix the selection of a candidate to get your woman in and then you

thwarted the investigation into the dirty deeds. The reality is the

Labour Party report was deeply flawed. The Labour Party then

instructed a solicitor, a lawyer, to do an in-depth investigation and

during that investigation they got to the bottom of what had happened

and they decided there was no wrongdoing whatsoever. At the time I

was so confident we had done nothing, I called for an independent

enquiry. They were forced to conclude there was no wrongdoing

because the people who originally complained changed their evidence

and we now know they did so because Unite union officials helped them to

rewrite their retraction and Stevie Deans approved it. That is not true.

We have had 1000 e-mails thrown into the public arena and what is that

all about? Who is leaking this? They showed the Unite union was rewriting

the retractions. This interview would go a lot better if you are

allowed me to finish the question that you asked. These e-mails were

put into the public arena by the PR company from INEOS. Why are they

doing this? The truth of the matter is that all of the investigations

that took place demonstrate there was nothing to answer. This idea

that the Unite union has rewritten and the evidence from the families

has been withdrawn, the families are a part of Stevie deems' family. They

clarified the position. Do you deny that union officials were involved

in the retractions? I deny it completely. This is important.

Independent solicitors to witness statements from the family and they

are the ones that were influencing the Labour Party with the position

is clarified and there is no case to answer. Do you deny Stevie deems saw

their retractions? It is his family. So you do not deny it? It is his

family. This is an ordinary, decent family who were faced with the full

weight of the pleas, a forensic solicitor. Of course they spoke to

Stevie Deans. This whole thing is a cesspit. Does it not need an

independent investigation? This is a trap being laid by Tory Central

office. They are making all the demands. The media, the Daily Mail,

the Sunday Times, the Conservative mouthpiece, they are laying tracks

for Ed Miliband and Ed Miliband should not fall into them. Since

when did it become part of an industrial dispute to send mobs to

the home of company families. This is a legitimate form of protest and

it is a silent protest. We believe if faceless directors are making

decisions that cripple communities, they cannot expect to simply drift

back to their own leafy suburbia and not be countable. This is silent

protest. It is lawful. It may be silent in Grangemouth, but it was

not silent elsewhere. You went with a giant rat, loud-hailers telling

everybody the neighbour was evil. No, we did not. You had

loud-hailers, you even encouraged passing children in Grangemouth to

join in. That is nonsense. Look at the rat. The reality is the

Grangemouth community was going to be decimated, Grangemouth was going

to become a ghost town. I reject totally this idea there were

loud-hailers and children involved. That is a lie perpetrated by the

Daily Mail. But you have used these tactics in other disputes. We have

used the tactics in other disputes, but we have not used loud-hailers at

people's homes. Because the labour laws are so restrictive we have to

look at every available means that we can protest. It is an outrage, an

absolute outrage, that this is happening to British workers in the

21st-century. It could not happen elsewhere. Is not intimidation the

wider hallmark of your union? You were quoted as saying to do whatever

it takes during your attempts to take over the Labour Falkirk

constituency. You were instructing to dig out the nasty stuff on your

opponents. That is not true. Let's see these e-mails? This is a con

trick. Nobody is looking to dig out... This is the words of your

legal services advisor. Unite has tried to instigate a revival of

trade union values within the Labour Party. That is what Ed Miliband

wanted us to do. As soon as we started to be in any way

ineffective, there were screams and howls of derision. When the company

started to investigate Stevie Deans, your friend, your campaign manager,

that he was using company time to moonlight on the job, you called

INEOS and said unless you stop the investigation we will bring

Grangemouth to a standstill. I never said that at all. You brought it to

a standstill. We never brought it to a standstill, the company did. Who

says that I said that we would bring it to a standstill? You have read it

in the newspapers. You should not believe everything. I did not make

that threat to the management. You carried the threat out. You

instigated an overtime ban and a work to rule. And that is what

Grangemouth to a standstill because the company decided to close the

petrochemical site down. Because Stevie Deans was suspended due

introduced industrial action? Our members in Grangemouth felt he was

being unfairly treated. In the end you're grandstanding almost cost

Scotland is most important industrial facility. The day was

saved by your total capitulation. Grandstanding, capitulation and

humiliation are grand phrases. There is nothing about capitulation. Len

McCluskey did not wake up one day and decide to have a dispute with

INEOS. The workers in that factory democratically elect their shop

stewards to represent them and to express to management their concerns

and their views. That is what happened with INEOS. Jack Straw has

condemned your union's handling of Grangemouth as a catastrophe. Have

you considered your position? Jack Straw and others in the Labour

Party, you have to ask them what their agenda is. I am not interested

in what he says. The truth of the matter is we responded to the

requirements and needs of our members. At a mass meeting last

Monday 100% supported their shop stewards and their union. We will

continue to stand shoulder to shoulder with our members when they

are faced with difficult situations. You have lost all the union rights.

You have had to agree to a no strike rule, you have lost pension rights.

We have not lost rights at all, we are still working with the company

to implement its survival plan. The Prime Minister is always attacking

unions and just lately he has taken to praising the automotive

industry. Jaguar Land Rover, Foxhall, BMW at Cowley, they are all

Unite union members were the shop stewards are engaged positively to

implement survival plans and to make a success for the company. That is

what we do, but by the same token we stand shoulder to shoulder with our

members who are in struggle and we will always do that and we will not

be cowed by media attacks on us Is your leadership not proving to be as

disastrous for the members as Arthur Scargill was for the NUM? My

membership is growing. I am accountable to my members, two are

executive, and the one thing they will know is that when they want me

standing shoulder to shoulder with them when they have a problem, I

will be there, despite the disgraceful attacks launched on us

by the media. "A country ready to welcome your

investment which values your friendship and will never exclude

anyone because of their race, religion, colour or creed." The

words of the Prime minister at the World Islamic Economic Forum which

was hosted for the first time in London this week. The PM's warm

words are sure to be welcomed by British Muslims who have endured a

spate of negative headlines. There's been the controversy over the

wearing of the veil, attitudes to women, and the radicalisation of

some young British Muslims. In a moment I'll be talking to the

Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq Murad.

First - here's Giles Dilnot. The call to Friday prayers at the east

London Mosque which has strong links with the Muslim Council of Britain,

one of the more vocal groups amongst British Muslims. Despite the fact it

frequently happens, it is neither helpful nor accurate to describe the

British Muslim community. There are so many different sects,

traditions, cultures and nationalities, it is more accurate

to describe the British Muslim communities, but there is one

question being put to them - are they doing enough internally to

address some challenging issues Are they willing to confront

radicalisation, attitudes to non-muslins, two women, and cases of

sexual exploitation in a meaningful way? A number of them say no, not

nearly enough. This former jihad de has spent ten years telling young

Muslim teenagers how they can reject extremist radicalisation, using

Outward Bound courses and community work, but he and others doing this

work thing -- think some elders are failing the youngsters. This has

been going on for decades, one figures -- thing is said in public

to please people but in private something very different is being

said and the messages are being confused. Some of the young people,

it pushes them further into a space where they are vulnerable for

radical recruiters. For many Muslim youngsters, life is about living 1's

faith within an increasingly secular society, a struggle not helped if

rigid interpretations of the Koran are being preached, say some

sectors. Some practices often don't make sense in 21st-century Britain,

and you are perhaps creating obstacles if you stick to those and

it is perhaps better to let go of those cultural problems, especially

when they need to clear injustices like forced marriage, reticence to

talk about grooming for example or discrimination against women. There

is a long list but I am very clear that in fact the bad Muslim is the

one who sticks to unflinching, narrow dogmatic fundamentalist

perception of religion. One issue often focused on is the wearing of

minicab. Polling suggests 80% of Britons would favour a ban in public

places. -- the niqab. Many people don't seem to recognise the legacy

of the niqab. Many people preach that women should be sidelined and

that they are sexual objects that should be covered up and the

preservation of morality falls on their shoulders. The Muslim Council

of Britain recently got praise for holding a conference on combating

sexual exploitation. In the wake of abuse cases that had involved

predominantly Pakistani men. For one man who has followed the story for

some years, the Muslim Council of Britain needs to do much more. We

need to get along together and if things like attitudes towards the

normal slim girl in stark contrast to the expression of honour and

chastity of the Muslim girl, your sister or daughter, are such that

actions that would be an fought off with a slim girl becomes permissible

with a white girl, then we are all in trouble. To some, attitudes to

women are not limited to sexual interactions at the very structures

of life in Muslim communities and indeed the Muslim Council of Britain

itself. I would like to ask the Muslim Council of Britain what they

are doing about the fact that very few mosques give voices to

are doing about the fact that very the fact that someone women are

experiencing female genital mutilation and forced marriages

what about the women who are getting married and their marriages are not

being registered and they are being left homeless and denied maintenance

rights, what about the fact there are sharia rights that have been

found to be discriminating against women, and the fact there are men in

this country who continue to hold misogynistic views about women, what

are you doing? The occasional press release will not solve this problem

of a deeply patriarchal community. That all of these issues can be

exploited to the point of Islam phobia is not doubted, but many

Muslims feel that unless the communities do tackle this openly, a

big cultural gap will exist between the two.

And the Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq

Murad, joins me now. One visible sign that sets muslins aside is the

veils that cover women's faces. Do you think it makes them impossible

to be part of mainstream society? The niqab is not an obligatory

requirement. But do you accept that those who wear it are cutting

themselves off from mainstream society? Some people do, and whilst

wearing niqab, some of them are working in various walks of life

successfully and it is seen as a faith requirement, but it is a red

herring in the sense that it applies to such a small number of Muslim

girls. For many Muslim preachers, isn't separation precisely the point

of the niqab? Certainly not, if you look at the Muslim women in the

public sphere, we have many very successful women. But not the ones

who are veiled. Not in the public arena as such, but the veil is a

practice which is practised by a very small number. Do you favour

it? I personally think it is not a requirement. But do you think women

should wear the veil? I think it is wrong to force women to wear the

veil. I asked if in your opinion women should wear the veil? It is

important not to force women to wear the veil. Should they of their free

choice where the veil? A lot of individuals do things out of their

free choice which I do not approve of, I don't think it is conducive it

helps their cause, but I do not have the right to take their choice away

from them. I am still unsure if you think it is a good thing or a bad

thing. Are not many Muslim women in this country being forced by Muslim

preachers and often their male relations who want to keep Muslim

women their place? As I said, it is wrong for anyone to force Muslim

women. But how would we ever know in a family if a woman was being

forced? Exactly, we don't know what is going on in people 's homes and

what pressure is being applied. I want you to look at this picture,

very popular on Islamic websites, and it shows the women who is

wearing the niqab having a straight route to heaven, and the other

Muslim woman dressed in western gear condemned to hell. Do you consider

that a proper message for Muslim women? Not at all, I don't. So any

Islamic websites in Britain... The Muslim Council of Britain is an

organisation of five affiliates from across the country and this is not

coming from any of them. As I said, those minority views propagated by

individuals should not be used to represent Muslim community. So that

would not have the support of the Muslim Council of Britain? It would

not have the support. What about the Muslim free school that requires

children as young as 11 to wear a black veil outside of school? Do you

agree with that? I am not sure exactly what the policy is... I have

just told you, do you agree that girls as young as 11 should wear a

black burka outside of school? I don't think it should be imposed on

anybody. But this is the desired dress School of the Muslim females.

I am asking for your view. I said it at the beginning that I do not think

it should be imposed. Would you send your daughter to a school that would

wear a black burka at the age of 11? Would you? No. It seems that some

muslins are determined to segregate young Muslim girls right from the

start to very early from society. It is not their segregation as such, I

would say that there are faith schools, if you look at an Islamic

girls school in Blackburn in a traditional setting, it has come the

top of the league table this year in the secondary school league tables.

But it doesn't make 11-year-olds wear black burkas. Many of those

girls go on to have a successful career. Not wearing black burkas. I

am sure there are examples of women who do have successful careers.

There is a very conservative movement from the continent on

Islam, and the issue supposedly based on Islamic law on their

website. Here is one of their recent judgements. The female is encouraged

to remain within the confines of her home as much as possible, she should

not come out of the home without need and necessity. What do you

think of that? We need to say the whole context of that quote. They

are saying they should stay at home as much as possible, do you agree

with that? I see many Muslim women who are walking about... But this is

what the mosque is recommending women should do. The practice is

quite the contrary. Let me show you another one. Another Fatwa. Do you

agree with that? These have been picked out from material dating back

to different cultural settings and in practice they are not applied.

This is advice being given as we speak. This is not being practised.

Do you agree with it? No, not at all. These are from the DL Monday

mosques, how come 72 of these mosques are affiliated to your

counsel? There may be publications from one of their scholars, but they

have been written in countries abroad and translated. This is

advice being given to young women now. They are affiliated to the

Muslim Council of Britain. Do you ever speak to them about that? The

Muslim Council is a very broad organisation. We are working on lots

of common issues to create a community which positively

integrates. Did you ever speak to them to say this is not appropriate

for British Muslims? There may be certain ad buys and publications

available, but people make their choices. So it is OK for your

organisation to issue things like that? Many of these things will fall

under scrutiny and we need to create that. Why do only 26% of British

mosques have facilities for women? If you go back to the requirement of

prayer, it was not obligatory for women to come to the masks to

prayer. When a poorer community began putting up mosques at the very

beginning in terraced houses... Did you have a policy to encourage them?

Is it on your website? It is in our practices that 20% of the council

have to be female. Coming out of this movement there is a conscious

stream of superiority between Muslims and non-Muslims. Look at

this quote. He is a well-known picture in this country.

That is what he wants to stop. I disagree with that. We believe we

live in this society and Muslims in any society of the world, and they

have historically lived as minorities in many countries... You

would this associate yourself from that? Why do you allow people like

that to be affiliated to you? The requirement is for any organisation

to be affiliated is that they are bound by the Charity commission s

rules and regulations. We only accept those who are under the law

of this country. This is a matter of taste. Let me move on to a bigger

issue. In 2009 you signed the Istanbul dash-mac the Istanbul

declaration was signed. Do you still support it? No, we never signed it

or supported it. One of your leading lights signed it. In the media

mainstream he defended his position. You have this associated yourself

from it? What is wrong with that? I am not sure about the declaration

because we disassociated ourselves. Before reading it? We did not sign

it. You have not read it? I do not know all the aspects of the

declaration, but at the time in the national newspapers and media there

was a discussion and a debate and it was highlighted that that was not

what was meant by the declaration. When did you decide so is the

yourself from the declaration? From day one. We never signed it. The

East London Mosque which you are personally closely associated with

is the venue for a number of extremist speakers, who espoused

extremist positions. In 2009 the mosque posted a video and

presentation by somebody described by the UN Security Council as an

Al-Qaeda leader supporter. Another speaker described Christians and

Jews as Phil. You have had a jihad is supporter of the Taliban there.

Why do you do nothing to stop extremists like that at this mask

with which you are associated with? We do not have anything to do with

any rhetoric that condones or supported violence. We issue

guidelines and the mosque itself is a registered charity which has its

own rules and regulations, but it is a very large mosques and lots of

organisations book and come and told their gatherings. We rent out the

facilities. You were prepared to speak alongside a man who saluted

suicide bombers, and said 9/11 was a Zionist conspiracy. Why would you

share a platform like that? I did not share a platform like that.

Different organisations come and have conferences here. Why did you

agree? I did not agree with that. I completely reject that. When you add

all this up the attitude to women, the alliance with the most

fundamentalist Islamic mosques, the toleration of intolerant views, a

willingness for you to be counted among them, why should anybody of

goodwill, either a Muslim or a non-Muslim, regard the MCB as a good

force? It is an organisation which embraces different organisations

which are affiliated in the Muslim community. You have taken snippets

of certain individual views which are not the views of our affiliates.

It would be unfair to represent our view based on those which you have

highlighted in this programme. The work that we do is quite clear and

is on our website. They are all associated with you, but we will

have to leave it there. You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming

up: I will be talking to joke Scots in Corby losing out on the

vote for Scottish Hello and welcome to your local part

of the programme. Coming up. 62.

I stand for a full house at Holyrood but not one collected by Corby Scots

living South of the border. `` EYES DOWN.

I have invited government ministers to come here and listen to people 's

views. The EU ruling that could lead to more people living here.

We have got to sort out the EU itself. As the deed is finally done,

or is it? Norfolk fights for a new incinerator, but this man has the

final say. I am joined by the South and fit MP

Richard Bacon and former MP for Northampton North Sally Keble,

fighting the seat again for Labour this time. Starting with the story

of the week. The big storm. Let's look at the pictures. This is the

aftermath of the 80 mph winds. This was blown over in Suffolk, thousands

of train travel is faced disruption, more than 200 trees obstructing the

lines were removed. 100,000 homes in the East had no electricity at one

stage, several thousand people had no power for days. We had three

times the staffing levels, we were prepared for that, we were prepared

over the weekend. We were as ready as we could be but the scale of

those wins over such a short period meant regrettably some customers

could not get through and I am sorry. `` winds. But we did

everything we could do. Your fellow East MP is contacted as

saying that when she contacted networks on Monday, they did not

have a clue which areas were without power, were we prepared well enough?

People like the Fire and emergency planning people were prepared but

the power companies were not. To say we did everything we possibly could

when people could not through on the phone and they did not have the

information about power outages is not good enough. Resilience means

coping in extreme circumstances and having a contingency plan to allow

you to make extra stuff available at short notice.

Did the authorities do as much as they could? Had emergency planning

committees but it did not seem there were functioning well enough. ``

they had. The local authority probably did

quite well but there was an issue with power companies. For them to

save their were not warned was a nonsense because there was a lot of

warning about a storm. They did say they were warned and

they put as many staff as they could available at the time out but it was

a question of information. They put the charges up, they are making

substantial profits and people are feeling the pinch because they are

paying fuel prices, so they should see continuity of service. Climatic

conditions are not going to get easier and the East of England is

under pressure from these changes, so the power companies have do

improve, a deeply as they increase their prices.

`` particularly. In less than a year, we will know if Scotland has

voted for independence. This weekend, Home Secretary to reason

may raise concerns an independent Scotland would harm national

security, but who should get a say? `` Theresa May. If you live South of

the border, it you do not get a say, and that is a problem for many

people living in Corby. Sometimes, it you get the result you want. But

on the future of Scotland 's relationship with the UK, the Scots

will have no more influence than what they do on which numbers come

up on the bingo. Many people here were born in

Scotland or their parents were but they will not get a vote in the

referendum on Scottish independence. The Conservative are counsellor here

thanks they showed, what do people here think so? `` they should. I

think they are entitled to vote the same as anybody else. Do you

identify more as a resident of Corby than a Scot? Definitely not. Still

proud of the heritage? Definitely, you never lose that and if you do,

you are not a true Scot! You were born in Scotland, would you like a

say in the referendum? Yes. Which way it will go, I do not know. The

issue affects many in this region, are more 77,000 Scottish born people

in the East of England. Corby is home to more than 7,000. It is known

as little Scotland because they represent over 12% of the

population, making it one of the largest Scottish communities in

England. I have invited to Scotland to talk

about the Corby question, which is how you make sure the voices of

people in England, especially the Scottish with strong connections to

Scotland, or heard in the independence debate. I look forward

to going there and I am happy to take part. And I also want people to

come to Corby so I have invited government ministers and Alistair

Darling to come to listen to local people. Scottish families started

coming here in the 1930s with the development of the iron and steel

works. A found jobs, and even after the factories closed, many remained

here. But why would they care whether Scotland stays part of the

UK or not? It will be more complicated to maintain some

business links and family connections because travel would

become more complex, they might have a different currency, so there are

genuine issues about the relationship between England and

Scotland and friends and families in Scotland if they go independent. I

am sure we can maintain those but I hope we can keep England and

Scotland together. Whether Scotland decides to go it alone or not, these

people remain proud of their heritage. They may not affect the

numbers in the referendum, but many still want their voices to be heard.

I spoke to Scottish National Party member of the Scottish Parliament

Stuart Macmillan and I asked him why Scots in Corby will not get a vote.

The referendum next year is about the people who live and work in

Scotland who will be entitled to vote in the referendum. But there

are many `` many English people living and working in Scotland who

got a say. You are speaking to one of them, I was then `` I was born in

Barrow in Furness, but I grew up in Scotland. Scotland is my home and I

live here and I work here and I am entitled to a vote. And everyone

else who lives and works in Scotland will be. Who has made the decision

it cannot be based upon those people who would be applicable for a

Scottish passport? The section 30 order, the Edinburgh agreement

signed between the Scottish and UK government, that allowed for the

referendum to be decided by the people of Scotland and the

Parliament in Scotland. So the referendum is being made in Scotland

for people who live and work in Scotland. So the referendum will be

about everyone who stays here, we will have that entitlement to a

vote. But is that fair? These people in Corby feel very Scottish. I have

family in Coventry and I had this discussion with them and they

understand and agree with the position. They were not sure about

it initially, but they understand it and agree with it because their

lives are not in Scotland. They left Scotland some years ago and they

live in commentary and have done longer than in Scotland. What about

those people in Corby who do not agree with the decision and

understand it? But they do not live and work in Scotland. The referendum

is about the decision for the people of Scotland who do live and work

here about what type of Scotland they want to live in. And the

referendum will provide that opportunity. There are many people

who do live and work elsewhere outside of Scotland, but their home

is not Scotland any more. Do you have any sympathy for them, it is

12,000 people? It is not about sympathy, it is about where people

live and work. That is a key issue. And another part of the referendum

and those entitled to vote next year, apart from one addition, which

is reducing the age of voting to 16 and 17`year`olds, those who will

vote at the same people who will vote in a Scottish parliamentary

election and at the local authority elections in Scotland. So there is

no difference in terms of who can and cannot vote, apart from 16 and

17`year`olds. The MP for Corby wants his constituents who believe

themselves to be Scottish, they have a strong link with Scotland, he

wants them to feel engaged in the debate. So will you speak to them? I

will happily speak to anyone about the referendum and about the voting

for next year. But at the same time, I would encourage the MP for Corby

to speak to his Labour colleagues in the Scottish Parliament who actually

agreed with this help when they voted it through on June the 27th

this year. But what about the SNP coming to Corby to speak to these

residents? There is no plan to do that. The SNP

have been very clear about who should be entitled to the vote next

year. We have been clear from the outset. There is no plan to go and

talk to people outside of Scotland about whether they can or cannot be

allowed to vote. It is our priority over the next 12 months to encourage

as many people in Scotland to vote yes in the referendum.

Thank you for joining us. Sally Keble, you have a family member with

Scottish roots, do they feel the same as these people in Corby? It is

my wonderful mother, who is a Scottish as could be and she agrees

that because she is a Scot, she should be entitled to a say. What do

you think? We had a chat and she said she recognised the difficulties

in trying to organise a vote. But she said she was born in Scotland

and brought up in Scotland. What this shows is the fact that the UK

is actually, there is a high level of integration and I think we heard

some of that in the discussion. But she definitely would agree with the

people in Corby, she wants her say. If you qualify for a Scottish

passport, should you get a vote? There is a question of, who are the

people of Scotland, people who live and work there or people who feel

Scottish? It is not fair, you might say, but as we were all told when we

were children, life is not fair. You have to have a way of deciding. You

could include other people in other parts of the UK with Scottish

ancestry. My predecessor was a Scot, he still lives in Norfolk. Scots

have been coming to Norfolk for hundreds of years because of the

agriculture and bringing their skills, and Thomas Hardy was talking

about the same in the West Country. But you could end up giving all

English people a vote and plenty want a vote. Polls show consistently

there are more English people who favour Scottish independence than

Scots. Is this a fair way to draw the line?

It is a rough and ready way, what there is a precedent for people to

have votes. You could probably enfranchise people who were born in

Scotland and have spent part of their lives and established some

connection, but it would be difficult. It would be difficult. We

do allow expats to vote in the UK elections, but that is for the whole

of the UK. But these people in Corby, if I go to Scotland, they

might have to deal with Border Control and all sorts. All the other

one, travel is not going to get more difficult! `` pull. Do we seriously

think there will be passport checks on the border? There are plenty of

parts of Europe there are no passport checks, from France to

Germany, Luxembourg to Belgium. What happens for people who live in

Scotland, who are English, and suddenly find they have to decide

about passports? They have got a passport. They will carry on having

one. We will talk about it nearer the time of the vote.

This is a question, how many countries make up the European

Union? It is 28. But it could be as many as 33. Next week, MPs will

debate the Private Members' Bill calling for an in out referendum on

Europe, but while we are talking about leaving the EU, there is no

shortage of countries wanting to join up. In the run`up to the

European elections next year, it is on the minds of MPs in Brussels,

with several in our region playing a major role in the debate.

Richard Howitt has been put in charge of both `` of overseeing the

application by Macedonia. The former Yugoslav states lies above Greece

and has a population of 2 million, a third of whom live alone the poverty

line `` state. We have companies that are today trading with

Macedonia. It is an extremely important part of the economy, it is

a fragile small country, at the benefit is already coming back. How

many more countries could be benefiting in that way if they were

to start a gauche Asians? Dash`mac negotiations. There is a lot of

unease about the EU, why do we need more countries in the EU? Why do we

need more trade for the prosperity of businesses, we do not have to

send the planes to stop the wars in places like Kosovo. How can we have

more affected orders to strop Hoople trafficking illegal immigration and

drugs, we do that by making countries more like ourselves. ``

drug`trafficking `` people trafficking. But many believe the EU

is large enough. We welcome the principle of enlargement. We want

greater stability and economic progress and peace across Europe.

But before we get onto and lodging the EU any more, we have to sort out

the EU itself `` and lodging. We want to bring about great change

before we went in more countries. These are very poor countries, their

rock 100 million population who would be entitled to come to the

rest of Europe, including the UK. `` there are 100 million. And the cost

will be 14 billion, that is extraordinary, to bring these poor

countries into Europe. People might be surprised how much

it costs to bring countries into Europe, is it worth it? There are

security issues about the Balkans and in the log `` in the longer

term, having more stability with the Balkans and countries like Turkey,

but if you look at Macedonia, a population of 2 million, 20 million

unemployed across Europe, that is the problem. And understandably in

the East of England, where there has been a history of people coming over

to get work any seasonal basis, you have to deal with the employment

issues and deal with those so that people do not feel threatened. We

need this immigration, don't we? They contribute and drive the

economy. There is no shortage of immigration and people coming here

to work. We need to make these countries more like us, that is the

problem with the EU. It is possible they do not want to become like us

and they have been Macedonia or Croatia, or whatever it is. And we

should not be involved in, we should be creating a political structure

making everybody like everyone else. You do not need yet another layer of

government to have trade, you just need people to buy and sell goods.

We have had more immigration in the East than anywhere else in the UK at

times and that has put a strain on public services. I agree, and with

trade, integration does help. That is really important and that is an

important part of the issue. But I agree that you have two look

seriously `` you have to look seriously at having proper attention

paid to services and the pressure around Europe. As part of looking at

how to create a more secure and successful Europe. This is about

keeping the bicycle moving because if it stops, it will fall off. The

EU has imposed a currency on many countries that has caused an

economic catastrophe and is a reason many are not growing. I am in favour

of the single market and I spent a lot of time in Brussels as a

journalist talking about it. They are still talking about completing

it now, the French are not that interested, they are interested in

what is best for them. Talking of the EU, this week, an MEP

is flushed with success. It is in the round`up.

Veterans of atomic tests in the 1950s had their campaign raised in

Parliament this week. The science was unknown and the risks were on

quantifiable, but the costs to veterans and their descendants is

very severe indeed. Young people demonstrated outside County Hall in

Essex at protest of cup axe that could mean the axing of youth clubs

and the loss of 170 jobs Norfolk has narrowly approved plans to build a

waste incinerator in Kings Lynn, although Eric Pickles has yet to

make a decision, expected in the New Year, over planning permission will

`` what we decided today was not to cancel a contract.

Is nothing sacred? The EU has been criticised for poking its nose in

where it is not wanted after publishing a 60 page report on

toilets. This MEP would have pushed it down the pan.

Let's talk about this incinerator. Is the story over? Will the

Secretary of State turned down planning permission? I do not know

it 's mind on this `` Jean`Eric Vergne pickle 's mind on this. A lot

of people are concerned about the penalties. `` Mr pickle 's mind on

this. The question is, why did we write a contract with such big

penalties? There has been a loss of face. There probably has, and if you

build up more capacity than you need, you end up with more road

journeys to get more rubbish going into an incident rate `` and

incinerator. What about youth services being rest in Essex? The

cuts are awful and they have come across other things that have hit

young people, a troubling of tuition fees, a cut in housing rights. That

has put a lot of pressure on young people at a time they cannot get

jobs either. Thank you, next week, we look forward to the anniversary

of the confident we will deliver that.

Thank you for coming, great to see you. Andrew, back to you. Labour 's

relationship with Unite and other issues all to be discussed in the

Week Ahead and we're joined now by the shadow business secretary Chuka

Umunna. First I would like to get your reaction to the interview I did

earlier with the General Secretary of the union Unite - Len McCluskey.

Let's look at what he said. This is a trap being laid by Tory Central

office. They are making all of the demands and the Daily Mail, the

Sunday Times, are you telling me they are not the conservative

mouthpiece in the media? They are laying traps for Ed Miliband and he

should not fall into them. Though it is all a Tory plot. Len McCluskey

denies a lot of the allegations put, but let me be clear in an industrial

dispute, the use of aggressive or intimidatory tactics by either side

is totally unacceptable. Do you think it is wrong for Unite to send

its members to the homes of managers? I don't know what happened

in that particular case, but I think you should keep people 's families

out of these things and if you are doing something that can upset

particularly children, that is a bad thing. I know he denied a number of

things you put to him. We now know some of the content of Labour 's own

report into what happened at Falkirk and they found all sorts of things -

forgery, coercion, trickery and even that their own investigation was

being thwarted by Unite. What should Labour do next? I have not read the

report. We are told that the latest allegations that have been made is

something that the police are looking into so that is not

something I think would be appropriate for me to comment on. We

learned Labour Party members in the Falkirk constituency have complained

to the leader of the Scottish party about a lack of action by the Labour

Party on what happened in Falkirk. I am not part of the Scottish party

and that is news to me. But the police have indicated they are

looking at the new information that has come to light. It is a bit like

the 1980s and there was an electrifying moment when Neil

Kinnock took on the militant tendency in Bournemouth in 1985 Ed

Miliband has sort of tried to take on the Unite union, but it has not

worked. Does then not need to be an electrifying moment for Ed Miliband?

Your own paper has praised him for seeking to address the issues we

have in politics and the disconnection from people. In many

respects the situation in Falkirk categorises the process of further

ongoing change where we are trying to establish a better relationship

with individual trade union members. In parts of my constituency, some of

the most deprived parts, we had people queueing round the block to

vote. I do not think the issue is that people are not political, but

they have never felt so far from party politics as they do now and

that is why Ed Miliband announced this big chains about how we do

things in the Labour Party, so we change structures in the Labour

Party that were set up in the 2 th century. The reform of the way in

which we connect and our relationship with the union puts us

in a good position because we have this relationship between the 3

million working people who ensure our public services function. At

Grangemouth INEOS stood up to unite. At Grangemouth and Falkirk

Labour rolled over to the Unite union. I do not agree with that I'd

just explained the reason. I do not think it is fair to ask people to

give evidence in an enquiry on the basis of the report will be

confidential and then to publish it after. But if somebody is trying to

take over a Labour constituency to send an MP of their choice to our

Parliament, that should not be secret, that should be public. Ed

Miliband acted very decisively. That constituency party is still in

special measures as I understand it. This idea that somehow the Unite

union runs the Labour Party, they do not. The special measures mean

according to Eric Joyce, that an ally of Stevie Deans is chairing the

meeting. I am interested in the Tory suggestion that they would offer

free Tory party membership to union members. I then moving onto your

turf? We do not know exactly all the facts and the truth of the

allegations that have been made On your point I think it is healthy the

Conservatives are looking to recruit trade union members. A lot of their

rhetoric is very negative in respect of trade unions. If you look at

Unison a third of the members vote Conservative. In Unite union some of

their members vote Tory. I think trade unions have a lot to bring to

our country. It is one of the things many up and down the country will

find very frustrating, a lot of the good work that unions do if it gets

tarnished with all the negative stuff you see... Unite are working

in partnership with GM and the senior management in Ellesmere Port

and the government ensured that we kept that plant open. That gets

overlooked by all of this. Do you not think the bolshie behaviour from

unions are motivated not by strength, but by weakness. Unite

know they cannot paralyse the country in the way their forebears

used to be able to do. Their penetration rates in the private

sector is 11%. The union movement is weaker than it was before I was

born. Some of that truck killers and bad behaviour either death spasms of

their movement rather than something that is motivated by the fact they

can't paralyse the country. You have two increase the membership. But

there is an issue about the public perception of trade unions. It is

right they should be a voice of protest and anger and stand up for

their members when it is necessary. But people join unions for their

aspiration. The unions do a lot so that people can move up in their

workplace. That profile needs to come across as strongly as the

protest part. I want to move on to business. The head of the CBI has

said that Labour's pro-enterprise credentials have suffered a setback.

He said that in relation to Ed Miliband's speech. I was on the

radio earlier. If you look at the things in the speech, some of that

was going to be uncomfortable for some of the countries and they tend

to be companies represented by the CBI, like energy companies, like

land developers, a lot of the big business lose out from is not doing

the corporate tax cut. The energy freeze is going to help over 2.

million businesses that have been hit by high energy bills. The

business community has said we had to bring the public sector finances

back into balance. That is why we decided to switch the money being

used to reduce corporation tax and use that to help a much greater

variety of businesses by doing a business rate cut. It is all pro

enterprise. They also seem to be critical of your new idea of a

living wage. They are not critical. It would not be compulsory, but

there would be a tax credit if they paid it. It is good for business

because if people are earning more than they are more productive. It is

good for the employee and good for us as well because it means we are

not having to subsidise people to be paid to the extent we have with tax

credits and benefits. Everybody benefits from this. We all know

after 2009 we need to have bold change. Does Labour paid a living

wage? We have got over 20 of our councils signed up to doing so and

we have made commitments in respect to Whitehall. Does the Labour Party

pay it? I believe so. Would it not be worth checking? Do you get a

living wage? Yes, of course I do. I understand we paid a living wage.

What does it feel like for Tristram Hunt who has taken over your mantle

as Labour's next leader? Is that a relieved or are you angry? He is one

of my best friends and at the end of the day if we got obsessed with this

soap opera stuff we would never get anything done and we are working

together to make sure we have got the right skills in our workforce.

That is all for today. The daily politics is on all week. I will be

here again next weekend at 12:2 pm after the Remembrance Day service at

the Cenotaph. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.

Planet Earth - it's unique. It has life.

To understand why, we're going to build a planet...up there.

There were the objects that were making the Earth.

We're now weightless. That's how our planet started.

Your arms are a little bit long Is that as small as they go?

This is like every shopping trip I've ever been on.