14/09/2014 Sunday Politics East

Welcome to the Sunday Politics, coming to you live from Edinburgh.

Terrorists who use the name Islamic State have carried out

their threat to murder the British aid worker, David Haines.

They released a video late last night, showing a masked man

beheading Mr Haines, who was taken captive in Syria 18 months ago.

The jihadist group have already beheaded two American journalists.

Now it's threatening the life of a second British hostage.

David Cameron described the murder as an act of pure evil.

As we speak he's chairing a meeting of the Cabinet's COBRA

President Obama said the US stood shoulder to shoulder

Alex Salmond says Scotland "stands on the cusp of history" as

he predicts a historic and substantial victory in

As the latest polls show the two sides neck and neck,

I'll ask Yes campaigner and socialist Tommy Sheridan about his

And after last week's last-minute interventions from Gordon Brown

David Cameron, Ed Miliband and big business, I'll ask

Here in the East: it's enough to win over waverers.

The campaign in the Clacton by`election takes off, now `ll

And students with disabilithes believe benefit changes could

step closer back to Parliament. Is it a lame-duck administration?

Late last night, as most folk were preparing for bed, news broke that

Islamic State extremists had carried out their threat to murder the

The group released a video, similar to the ones in which two American

journalists were decapitated, showing a masked man apparently

beheading Mr Haines who was taken captive in Syria last year.

The terrorist, who has a southern British accent,

also threatened the life of a second hostage from the UK

Mr Haines is the third Westerner to be killed

His family have paid tribute to his humanitarian work; they say he

David Cameron described the murder as an act of pure evil, and said

his heart went out to Mr Haines family, who had shown extraordinary

Mr Cameron went on to say, "We will do everything in our power

to hunt down these murderers and ensure they face justice,

Mr Haines was born in England and brought up in Scotland.

Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond condemned the killing on the Marr

Well, it's an act of unspeakable barbarism that we have seen.

Obviously our condolences go to the family members of David Haynes who

have borne this with such fortitude in recent months -- David

Alex Salmond was also asked whether he supported military action

Haines there is no reason to believe whatsoever that China or Russia or

any country will see their will to deal with this barbarism. There is a

will for effective, international, legal action but it must come in

that fashion, and I would urge that to be a consideration to develop a

collective response to what is a threat to humanity.

Our security correspondent Gordon Corera joins me now

Gordon, as we speak, the Cobra emergency meeting is meeting yet

again. It meets a lot these days. I would suggest that the options

facing this committee and Mr Cameron are pretty limited. That's right. I

think they are extremely limited. They have been all along in these

hostage situations. We know, for instance, that British government

policy is not to pay ransom is to kidnappers. Other Europeans states

are thought to have done so to get hostages released, and also not to

make substantive policy concessions to the groups, so while there might

be contact, there won't be a lot of options left. We know the US in the

past has looked at rescue missions and in July on operation to free the

hostages, landing at the oil facility in Syria but finding no one

there. If you look at the options, they are not great. That is the

difficult situation which Cobra will have been discussing the last hour.

Does this make it more likely, because it might have the direction

the government was going in any way, that we join with the Americans in

perhaps the regional allies in air strikes against Islamic State, not

just in Iraq, but also in Syria We heard from President Obama outlining

his strategy against Islamic State last week when he talked about

building a coalition, about authorising air strikes. And

training troops. We are still waiting to hear what exact role the

UK will play in that. We know it will play a role because it has been

arming the fishmonger forces but the question is, will it actually

conduct military strikes in Iraq -- arming the passion are there. We

have not got a clear answer from government and that is something

where they are ours to discuss what was around the table. It's possible

we might learn some more today as a result of the Cobra meeting, but I

think the government will be wanting to not be seen to suddenly rushed to

a completely different policy as a result of one incident, however

terrible it is. Whether it hardens their reserve -- resolved to play

more active role in the coalition, that's possible, but we have to wait

see to get the detail. -- wait and see. What the whole country would

like to see would be British and American special forces going in and

getting these guys. I think that would unite the nation. But that is

very difficult, isn't it? It is As you saw with a rescue mission a few

months ago, the problem is getting actionable intelligence on the

ground at a particular moment. The theory is that the group of

kidnappers are moving the hostages may be even every or few days, so

you need intelligence and quickly and then you need to be able to get

the team onto the ground into that time frame. That is clearly a

possibility and something they will be looking at, but it certainly

challenging, particularly when you have a group like this operating

within its own state, effectively, and knowing that other people are

looking very hard for it and doing everything they can to hide. Gordon,

thank you very much. Clegg dropped everything and headed

to Scotland when a poll last Sunday gave the YES vote its first ever

lead in this prolonged referendum If their reaction looked

like panic, that's because it was. Until last weekend,

though the polls had been narrowing, the consensus was still that NO

would carry the day. The new consensus is that

it's too close to call. If we look back at the beginning of

the year, public opinion in Scotland was fairly settled. The no campaign

had a commanding lead across the opinion polls, excluding the

undecided voters. At one point, at the end of last year, an average of

63% backed the no campaign and only 37% supported a yes vote. As we move

into 2014 and up to this week, you can see a clear trend emerging as

the lead for the no campaign gets narrower and narrower and the

average of the most recent polls has the contest hanging in the balance.

There was a poll a week ago that put the Yes campaign in the lead for the

first time, 51% against 49%, but that lead was not reflected in the

other polls last week. For polls were published last night, one by

Salvation, for the macro-2 campaign -- Better Together campaign, and

there was another that gave a one percentage point different. ICM have

the yes campaign back in the lead at 54% and the no campaign at 46%, but

their sample size was 705 Scottish adults, smaller than usual. Another

suggests that the contest remains on a knife edge with 49.4% against

50.6%. When fed into the poll of polls the figures average out with

yes at 49% and polls -- no at 5 %. But some people think 18% are

undecided, and it is how they vote gets -- when they get to the polling

booths that could make all the difference.

campaigner and Respect Party MP George Galloway.

Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Big business, big oil, big banks, the

Tories, the Orange order, all against Scottish independence. You

sure you are on right side? Yes because the interests of working

people are in staying together. This is a troubled moment in a marriage,

a very long marriage, in which some good things and bad things have been

achieved together. And there is no doubt that the crockery is being

thrown around the house of the minute. But I believe that the

underlying interests of working people are on working on the

relationship rather than divorce. I have been divorced. It's a very

messy, acrimonious, bitter affair and it's particularly bad for the

children will stop that's why I am here. You talk about working people,

and particularly Scottish working people, they seem to have concluded

that the social democracy they want to create cannot now be done in a UK

context. Why should they not have a shot of going it alone? Because the

opposite will happen. Separation will cause a race to the bottom in

taxation. Alex Salmond has already announced he will cut the taxes on

companies, corporation tax, down to 3% hello whatever it is in the rest

of these islands. And business will only be attracted to come here,

country of 5 million people on if there is low regulation, low public

expenditure, low levels of taxation for them will stop you cannot have

Scandinavian social democracy on Texan levels of taxation. The

British government, as will be, the rest of the UK, they will race Alex

Salmond to the bottom. If he cuts it by three, they will cut it by four.

And so on. So whether some people cannot see it clearly yet or not,

the interests of the working people on both sides of the border would be

gravely damaged by separation. Let's take the interest of the working

people. As you know, as well as anyone, the coalition is in

fermenting both a series of cuts and reforms in welfare, and labour,

Westminster Labour, has only limited plans to reverse any of that. Surely

if you want to preserve the welfare state as it is, independence is the

way to do it. For the reasons I just explain, I don't believe that. But

Ed Miliband will be along in a minute. He will be along in May The

polls indicate... They say he is only four or 5%, that is the

average. Like the referendum, the next general election could be nip

and tuck. I don't, myself, think that the time of David Cameron as

Prime Minister is for much longer. I think there will be a Labour

government in the spring and the Labour government in London and a

stronger Scottish Parliament, super Devo Max, that is now on the table.

That is the best arrangement of people in the country. But the

people of Scotland surely cannot base a decision on independence on

your feeling that Labour might win the next general election. It is my

feeling. When the Tories were beaten on the bedroom tax last week in the

house, it was written all over the faces of the government side not

only that they were headed for defeat, but probably a massive fishy

-- Fisher. I think the race to the bottom that I have proper size will

mean that the welfare state will be a distant memory quite soon. The

cuts and the run on the Scottish economy here in Edinburgh, the

financial services industry, that will be gravely damage. The Ministry

of Defence jobs in Scotland decimated, probably ended, more or

less. It will be a time of cuts and austerity, maybe super austerity in

an independent Scotland. You mentioned defence. What about

nuclear weapons? The Tories and Labour will keep them. You are

against them. Surely the only way to be rid of them in Scotland is by

independence. But you are not rid of them by telling them down the river.

The danger would be the same -- telling them down the river. The

danger would be the same. Nuclear radiation does not respect Alex

Salmond's national boundaries. They would be committed to immediately

joining NATO, which is bristling with nuclear weapons and is what --

involved in wars across the Atlantic. So anyone looking for a

peace option will have to elect a government in Britain as a whole

that will get rid of nuclear weapons and get out of military

entanglements. We are in one again now. I have been up the whole night,

till 5am, dealing with some of the consequences and implications of the

grave international matter that you opened the show with. David Haines

and the fate of the hostage still in their hands. There are many other

hostages as well. And there are many people dying who are neither British

nor American. I have, somehow, been drawn into this matter. And it

showed me, again, that the world is interdependent. It is absolutely

riven with division and hatred, and this is the worst possible time to

be opting out of the world to set up a small mini-state on the promises

of Alex Salmond of social democracy funded by Texan taxes. Let's, for

the sake of the next question, assume that everything you have told

us is true. Why is your side squandering a 20 point lead?

I will have a great deal to say about that, whatever the result

This is very much a Scottish Labour project, is that not a condemnation

of Scottish Labour? It is potentially on its deathbed. The

country breaking up, the principal responsibility will be on them. And

the pitiful, absolutely pitiful job that has been made of defending a

300-year-old relationship in this island by the Scottish Labour

leadership is really terrible for me to behold, even though I'm no longer

one of them. I don't know how they are going to get out of this

deathbed. Do you agree that if this referendum is lost by your side it

will be because traditional working-class Labour voters,

particularly in the west of Scotland, have abundant Labour and

decided to vote for independence? Without a doubt, the number of

Labour voters intending to vote yes is disturbingly high. Even just

months ago during the European Parliament elections, swathes of

people who didn't vote SNP will be voting yes on Thursday. That is a

grave squandering of a great legacy of Scottish Labour history, which

history will decree as unforgivable. If Labour is to get

out of its deathbed in Scotland it will have to become Labour again.

Real Labour again. I am ready to help them with that. My goodness,

they need help with it. I wonder if it isn't just a failure of Labour in

Scotland. People all over Britain are increasingly fed up with the

Westminster system, but it is only the Scots who currently have the

chance to break free from it, so why shouldn't they? That is exactly

right. They see a parliament of expenses cheats led by Lord snooty

and the Bullingdon club elite, carrying through austerity for many

but not for themselves and they are repulsed by it. They need change,

but you can go backwards and call it change but it will be worse than the

situation you have now. A lot of Scottish people don't buy that. It

is a big gamble. If I were poised to put my family's life savings on the

roulette table in Las Vegas, my wife would not be scaremongering if she

pointed out the potential consequences if I'd lost. She would

not be negative by telling me that is my children's money I am risking.

If I jumped off this roof it would change my point of view, but it

would be worse than the point of view I have now. There is another

issue here because the Scots are being asked to gamble on the

Westminster parties, which they are already suspicious of, of delivering

home rule. Alistair Darling could not even tell me if Ed Balls had

signed off on more income tax powers for Scotland, so that is a gamble

for the Scots. I feel the British state has had such a shake out of

all this that they would be beyond idiots, they would be insane now to

risk all of this flaring up again because whatever happens, if we win

on Thursday, it is going to be narrowly. It will be a severe

fissure in Scotland. A great deal of unpleasantness that we are already

aware of. That could turn but we're still. It would be dicing with

death, playing with fire, to let Scottish people down after Thursday

if we narrowly win. If you narrowly win, and if there are moves to this

home rule Mr Brown has been talking about, England hasn't spoken yet on

this. Whilst England would probably not want to stop -- stop Scotland

getting this, they would say, what about us? It could delay the whole

procedure. It is necessary, you are right. England should have home

rule, and I screamed at Scottish Labour MPs going into the vote to

introduce tuition fees in England. I told them this was a constitutional

monstrosity, as well as a crime against young people in England It

was risking everything. We are led by idiots. Our leaders are not James

Bonds, they are Austin powers. We need to change the leadership, not

rip up a 300-year-old marriage. Thank you.

It's been one of the longest and hardest fought political campaigns

in history, with Alex Salmond firing the starting gun on the referendum

Adam's been stitching together the key moments of the campaign

It is the other thing drawing people to the Scottish parliament, the new

great tapestry of Scotland. It is the story of battles won and lost,

Scottish moments, British moments, famous Scots, and not so famous

Scots. There is even a panel dedicated to the rise of the SNP.

Alex Salmond's majority in the elections in 2011 made the

referendum inevitable. It became reality when he and David Cameron

did a deal in Edinburgh one year later. The Scottish Government set

out its plans for independence in this book, just a wish list to some,

a sacred text to others. This White Paper is the most detailed

improvements that any people have ever been offered in the world as a

basis for becoming an independent country. The no campaign, called

Better Together, united the Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems under the

leadership of Alistair Darling. Then the Scottish people were bombarded

with two years of photo opportunities and a lot of

campaigning. For the no campaign, Jim Murphy went on tour but took a

break when he was egged and his events were often hijacked by yes

campaigners who were accused of being intimidating. In turn, they

accused the no campaign of using scare tactics. Things heated up when

the TV dinner -- during the TV debate. Fever pitch was reached one

week ago when one poll suggested the yes campaign was in the lead for the

first time. The three main Westminster leaders ditched PMQs to

head north. I think people can feel it is like a general election, that

you make a decision and five years later you can make another decision

if you are fed up with the Tories, give them a kick... This is totally

different. And Labour shelved not quite 100 MPs onto the train, Alex

Salmond took a helicopter instead. This is about the formation of the

NHS. A big theme of the yes campaign is that changes to the NHS in Linden

-- in England would lead to privatisation in Scotland. Alex

Salmond's plan to share the pound was trashed by big names. There were

other big question is, what would happen to military hardware like

Trident based on the Clyde? Would an independent Scotland be able to

Trident based on the Clyde? Would an am British and I hope to be staying

British. This is what people from Scotland have done, taken to the

rest of the world in many cases and I think I am going to vote yes. I am

rest of the world in many cases and because they think it will be more

Scotland. You have already got because they think it will be more

care for the elderly. You might not in future have that if public

spending is overdependent on the price of oil, over which you have no

control. We don't have to worry about one single resource, we

already have 20% of the fishing stock in Europe. We already have 25%

of the wind, wave and solar power generation. We, as an independent

country, have huge resources, natural resources but also people

resources. We have five first-class universities, food and beverages

industry which is the envy of the world. We have the ability to

produce the resources on the revenues that won't just maintain

the health service and education but it will develop health and

education. I don't want to stand still, I want to redistribute

wealth. But all of the projections of public spending for an

independent Scotland show that to keep spending at the current level

you need a strong price of oil and you are dependent on this commodity

which goes up and down and sideways. That is a gamble. I have got to

laugh because I have been told the most pessimistic is that in 40 years

the oil is running out, panic stations! If you were told by the

BBC you could only guarantee employment for the next 40 years you

would be over the moon. I am talking about in the next five. You need 50%

of your revenues to come from oil to continue spending and that is not a

guarantee. Of course it is, the minimum survival of the oil is 0

years. Please get your viewers to go onto the Internet and look at the

website called oilandgas.com. The West Coast has 100 years of oil to

be extracted. It hasn't been done because in 1981 Michael Heseltine

said we cannot extract the oil because we have Trident going up and

down there. Let's get rid of Trident and extract the oil. You are a trot

right, why have you failed to learn his famous dictum, socialism in one

country is impossible. Revolutions and change are not just single

event. What will happen here on Thursday is a democratic revolution.

The people are fed up of being patronised and lied to by this mob

in Westminster who have used and abused us for far too long. The

smaller people now have a voice What about socialism in one

country? Mr Trotsky warned you against that. The no campaign

represents the past. The yes campaign represents the future. That

is the truth of the matter. What we are going to do in an independent

Scotland is tackle inequality and a scourge of low pay. If we vote no on

Thursday, there will be more low pay on Friday, more poverty and food

banks on Friday. I'm not going to be lectured by these big banks, you

vote less -- yes and we will leave the country! The food banks will be

the ones closing. If you got your way, for the type of Scotland you

would like to see, state control of business, nationalisation of the

Manx, the roads to Carlisle will be clogged with people

Yes, hoping to come into Scotland, because in their hearts, the

Scottish people know that England want to see the people having the

bottle. The working class people in Liverpool, Newcastle, outside of

London, they are saying good on the jocks that are taking on big

business. When we are independent and investing in social housing the

people of England will say, we can do that as well, and they will

rediscover the radical tradition. In wanting to build socialism in one

country, it really means you are fighting for the few, rather than

the many. You are bailing out of the socialist Battle for Britain. You

think it will be easier to make it work. Think globally, act locally

and we will build socialism in Scotland but I wanted across the

world. I won my brothers and sisters in England and Wales to be

encouraged by what we do so they can reject the Westminster consensus as

well -- I want. We had the three Stooges coming up to London, three

millionaires united on one thing, austerity. Doesn't matter whether Ed

Miliband wins the next election he said he would stick to the story

spending cuts. Why vote for Ed Miliband? You wouldn't trust him to

run a bath, not a country. Let's see if this is realistic, this great

socialist vision. At the last Scottish election, the Socialist

party got 8000 votes. The Conservatives got 30 times more

votes. Where is the appetite in Scotland for your Marxist ideology

question we might not win it. But do you know what, see in two years

time. See when we have the Scottish general election. You won't -- you

are saying you might win and you went to the Holyrood election and

got 8000 Pope -- votes. The SNP won a democratic election and then won

the 2011 election and you know why they won? Because they picked up the

clothes that the Labour Party has thrown away. They picked up the

close of social democracy and protecting the health service was --

service. There are people in the SNP who believe in public ownership and

people in the SNP who believe in the NHS should be written into a

constitution as never for sale people in the the SNP that think the

Royal mail should return to public ownership. That is there in black

and white. Do you agree with George Galloway that this is potentially a

crisis for Scottish Labour? Scottish Labour is finished. They are

absolutely finished. George is right in that. Scottish Labour is

finished. The irony of ironies is, Labour in Scotland has more chance

of recovery in an independent Scotland that they have in a no

vote. Labour in Scotland in an independent country will have to

rediscover the traditions of Keir Hardie, the ideas of Jimmy Maxon,

because right now, they are to the right of the SNP as a political

party. I understand the socialist vision, but it is where the appetite

is. And you look at the independence people in Scotland. One of your

colleagues, Brian Souter, a man who fought against the appeal -- repeal

of homosexual rights in Scotland. Another of your allies would seem to

be Rupert Murdoch, the man who engineered your downfall. You say he

engineered your downfall, but I m still here and his newspaper has

closed. Whether it Rupert Murdoch, Brian Souter, or any other

millionaire supporting independence, I couldn't care less. This boat on

Thursday is not about millionaires, it is about the millions. -- this

vote. We will not be abused any young -- longer. Would you rather

not have their support? I couldn't care about the support. You know who

is supporting the union. It is the unions of the big businesses, the

BNP, UKIP, they are the ones who support it. You are giving me a

stray that has wandered into the campaign and are you seriously going

to argue with me that the establishment isn't united to try

and save the union? That is what they are trying to be. The BBC, you

have been a disgrace in your coverage of the campaign. Not you

personally. You don't have editorial control. The BBC coverage,

generally, has been a disgrace and the people. Oil and gas, go and look

at that, why is that not feature. Why is the idea of 100 years of oil

not featured in the campaign. Because the BBC does not want to see

it. Are you getting in your excuses if you lose? You better be kidding.

Is this the face of somebody looking to lose. We are going to win, 6 /40.

Absolutely. There is a momentum that you guys are not seeing on the

working-class housing estates. Working class people are fed up

being taken for granted fed up with the lives of people dragging us into

tax cuts, bedroom tax for the poor. They will have power on Thursday,

and they will use it and vote for freedom. Are you happy with the way

the BBC has treated you today? So far, yes. I have still not been

offered a Coffey, but that might happen. That is an obvious example

of our bias. Tommy, we will speak to you later with George Galloway.

Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics here in the East.

We're back after an extraordinary summer bre`k with

one of our Conservative MPs causing a political storm by defecthng to

Could benefit changes for students with disabilities mean more of them

And whatever happens in the referendum on Scottish independence,

will it eventually mean powdr over our own affairs here in the East?

Regions such as ours, which have a distinct cultural identitx

from the rest of the South Dast will start pressuring for this.

But let's start with the by`election in Clacton.

It's now just over two weeks since Douglas Carswell, the sitting

MP, lobbed a grenade into the world of politics by not only

defecting from the Tories to UKIP, but also standing down as an MP

The main parties all have their candidates in place, `fter

the Conservatives chose thehrs at a public meeting on Thursdax night.

He's Giles Watling, an actor and a local councillor

We'll hear from the other c`ndidates in a moment, but first Mr W`tling,

We now have the fastest`growing economy in the G7.

We're beginning to sort out the borders.

And I want to go ahead and be part of that team to do that.

It's important for Clacton, we have got a great future here, it is a

great place here, it's a sp`rkling jewel in the crown of Essex.

They want the changes that H think this country desperately nedds and

that the Westminster establhshment is not able to give them.

Do you still think you've done the right thing?

Do you know, the response I've had from local

people has removed any elemdnt of doubt that I might have had.

Europe hasn't come up on the doorstep, hardly at `ll.

We are talking about those hssues that really matter, it is about jobs

and the lack of investment in Clacton over the years.

It has been left behind, There is no economic recovery here.

But I know the British people actually like

And basically, the underdogs will come fighting back.

I think the message is, trust the Lib Dems because they have

actually got a good track rdcord and we haven't shouted about it

Andrew Sinclair has been spdnding a lot of the last fortnight

So what is this election really about?

Well, the national press and the Westminster village keep trying

to make out this is to do whth Europe and splits in the Tory party

over when to call a referendum, but no one is talking about that

I think this election has more to do with process than polhcy.

If you look at the reasons that Douglas Carswell gave for joining

Instead, he talks a lot abott local issues and I know that for the last

year or so he has felt very frustrated that when it has come to

important local issues, things like GP shortages which plays very big

here, plans to build more houses and things,

he's felt that local people and even himself, despite how hard they have

shouted, no one at Westminster has been listening to them.

The other thing is that Douglas Carswell is a great believer

in MPs being accountable to the people who have elected them.

He has always believed in the right to recall, the ability to c`ll a

by`election if constituents are not happy with their MP and holding open

Now the Tory party have toydd with this idea,

but he has always thought that they are not committed enough to it.

So, what do all the other local Tory MPs make of this?

Well, I have found no one alongst any Tory MPs in

our region who is openly supporting him or who agrees with him.

On the whole they are largely disappointed,

especially Eurosceptic MPs, who feel they have lost one of their own

Having said that, if you set aside the Europe issue,

I have spoken to someone normally very loyal MPs who said we `ctually

A couple of MPs have said that if you are not part of the Cameron

or Osborne clique it is verx hard to get heard at Westminster

and it's very hard to get ftnding for your area.

They do say they have a degree of sympathy with him on that.

And campaigning really has started now.

Yes, now we have a Tory c`ndidate in place, the four main candidates

Serious campaigning can get underway.

So far, it has been pretty low`key and I think it will probablx stay

low`key until after the Scottish referendum, because everyond's sent

their resources up there for the next week or so.

Once the Scottish referendul is over, I think this will become

Let's meet our guests now for this week.

Iain Stewart, Conservative LP for Milton Keynes, who grew up

And Robin Tilbrook, the Chahrman of the English Democrats Party which

is based in Essex and campahgns for an English Parliament.

Are you putting up a candid`te? I am certainly considering doing so and

we will make the decision this weekend only have a conference. Do

you agree with what and you were saying? I think it is to sole extent

about Europe and that questhon. The wider national questions. All

elections are to some extent about local issues. Perhaps it certainly

hasn't gelled as a campaign as yet. I must say I have some symp`thy with

Douglas Carswell and the wax he behaved in designing. Standhng and

creating a by`election, bec`use people, many people will have voted

to him as a Conservative and so it is right, I think, that people are

given the chance to vote ag`in. Personally, I think Clapton is

potentially a good area bec`use there are a lot of people there as

the 2011 census results show, who feel it's important to be English

not British. Iain Stuart, I said that he got a political grenade into

the political world. That you have any idea this was coming? No it was

very surprising. Only a few months ago does your scars with was saying

`` Douglas Carswell was sayhng he agreed negotiating our membdr ship

again and going to the publhc in a referendum. He was in favour of

that. As William Hague said at Prime Minister's Questions this mtst be

the first case of someone ldaving a party because the absolutelx agreed

with it. There is some bemusement about his move and also somd anger

because he has turnaround and bitten deep head of the party who gave him

his political career. Was this a gimmick, this primaries ide`? Is it

a gimmick? It's not. We havd used that method in number of selections,

starting with the MPV Totnes in Devon in the last parliament and a

good number of card that re`d candidates for this election have

been selected as way. Dougl`s Carswell says he is all in favour

these primaries but yet his party booted out the candidate thdy had

already selected that seat `nd imposed one. It doesn't seel to be a

particular act of principle. I thought it would have been

interesting is the Conservative Party had put up the previots deputy

leader of UKIP and when the other way. That would have led to a much

more interesting contrast. He was elected to serve in the European

Parliament, he was also my thought. There is an issue with having a

double mandate as Roger Heller found out of his cost when he was a

candidate for UKIP, people did not like that. A politician frol one

parliament would just be ond in another. Are you going to bd

campaigning? I was there on Thursday already with many of my cat do like

a colleague to congratulate Giles on his selection. One thing on the

primaries, if the Labour Party said there are two candidates or another

party said that, one of thel we don't bet the candidates of comedy

that we quite like, let's go and fight to him. Does that happen?

Certainly in America, it is commonplace and they have

primaries. The opposition p`rty wades in and votes of the wdaker

candidate. Does it bother you? There are always risks. The party locally

dropped a short list and sahd it be content with only one of thd

candidates on the base of which two excellent people went through to the

primary meeting on Thursday night. Giles was the winner. Both were

strong people. We will hear more shortly.

It's that time of year when thousands of parents are packing

It's never easy but what if the young person has

In the past those young people were entitled to

an allowance to help meet the cost of any special help they nedded

But in April the government announced

some changes, passing responsibility to the universities themselves.

Rosemary Howell is registered blind.

She has the rare eye diseasd amridia which means She has no iris in her

I struggle reading, I don't write anything.

I use computers quite a lot to take notes and browse the wdb.

Rosemary will have to use a specially adapted laptop with

She would also need a note`taker and a personal assistant to help

guide her while she studying Event Management at the University

I know from other visually hmpaired people who I met at college that

they are put off from going to university because

they know that they will not get all the equipment or human help that

Here at the University of Hertfordshire, they are proud

that disabled students outpdrform non`disabled students.

That is something they are keen to continue.

There is a consultation takhng place now but it's too late,

What we would have liked to have seen was more consultation

They are still very unclear what the changes will mean.

But they are worried that it could cost universities around ?100,0 0

It's really hard to say how well`prepared we are

There are 4,315 full and part`time undergraduates

That is about 5% of the region's students in total.

Universities didn't necessarily have the capacity to implement

the same kind of provision that the DSA ctrrently

gives and there are issues `round the timescale of the reforms and

Rosemarie counts herself lucky to be going to university

and disabled students need `ll the help they can get.

Being visually impaired, it's ten times worse

at getting a job as a normal person because, as much as people say they

don't discriminate, they actually do because who would employ

a blind person because they don t know what they can actually do.

We were hoping to put some of the points to the

Universities Minister, Greg Clarke, but he was not available.

So the Department for Busindss, Innovation Skills sent us this

statement and it appears th`t they have changed their minds.

Could I just say, this is a department which in Scotland is part

of the Scottish Government. In England, we have the British

government deciding what happened for us. It is part of our issue that

students are not being propdrly looked after in England. I know you

are going to talk about the subject in detail and in particular, but it

does sound a U`turn in parthcular doesn't it. I think if you look at

the process of government where people make sensible constrtctive

criticism of the details of the policy, the government does take

notice of it and make appropriate adjustments. I will come back again

in just a little while. Right,

let's talk about Scotland now. One thing is certain,

the vote on independence appears to But whatever happens on Thursday,

there is no doubt many of the arguments

about local decision making are not We asked Professor Paul Whiteley,

from the University of Essex, what it could mean here

in the east of England. Region such as ours,

which have a distinct cultural identity, from the rest of the South

East, will start pressing for this. We want to do something abott the

problems of infrastructure here problems of broadband, railways all

the things that we discuss. That kind of feeling is going

to emerge gradually over tile. that is much stronger

and demands political recognition. One of the backgrounds for

the present situation we're in is that the English devolution must be

addressed. It is more compldx than just looking at the regions of

England, because what are they? I represent in Milton Keynes

constituency, notionally in the south`east of England, but we are

covered by BBC East, we havd a lot of links at Northampton in the East

Midlands. What exactly are the regions? What I want to see is

further empowerment of local government. We have seen sole moves

in that direction with some cities taking on directly elected layors

with a lot of devolution in transport spending. I think that is

a process that started and H think there is room for a sensibld debate

about how that continue. And you would support that, would you? Is a

general direction of travel, yes. I don't there is one cigar model that

can be imposed on England. Ht doesn't fit neatly into reghons ``

one single model, we had a referendum on this a few ye`rs ago

and it was rejected by 80% of the voters. People don't want to see

another tranche of politici`ns elected to the once we're rdady

have. But there are ways yot can improve on how we organise things.

Robin, you had better tell ts how you stand on Scottish devolttion. We

are in favour of the Scots voting yes and also that will be

independent England. Would xou go further? All the regions in the

country having their own... I think the idea of regional identity sounds

totally bogus in England. Why? Because there isn't a regional

identity in that way. What we have... We have just heard from the

professor saying, yes there is! My family are from East Anglia the many

debt `` generations, there hs any East Anglia, but there is no idea

then Eastern region. So East Anglia would have its own... At th`t is

more the counties. That is rooted in history. That is not to say dizzy

equivalency Scottish and Welsh devolution. Scottish devolution was

not about regions, but about nations. Our nation is Englhsh and

our country is England. It hs not the or the East of England. All the

south`west,... You have a Scot sitting next to you, who stood in

Scotland. My nationality is British. When you sit in Scotland, dhd you

mention anything about Brithshness? I have all been perfectly clear

about my identity. I was born in Scotland to a Dutch family H had my

school education there, but University in England `` to a

Scottish family. I regard mxself as English. It is like being a husband

and a far the `` father, thdy are different but you can be both. So

you are against more power for the regions, but you supported. I am not

in favour of any form of regional government, but I think in Scotland,

there is transport planning, some of the city regions in the north`west

of England do have more control over how they set policy. At

administrative level it is not a problem.

OK, from Scotland to the Shhp of the Fens and much more in otr round

Health bosses have ruled out downgrading maternity and children's

departments at both Bedford Hospital and Milton Keynes General.

Upgrading the rail line to Norfolk was on the mind of Norwich LP,

She briefed the Rail Ministdr about the catalogue

I was making sure the Rail Linister knows exactly how bad it has been

Controversial plans for a bypass around Ely havd been

approved, despite a protest that claimed it would ruin

The Community Secretary, Erhc Pickles, could have the fin`l say.

At Prime Minister's Questions, the MP for Colchester raised

the risk to security and defence which could be caused

The garrison town of Colchester has welcomed thousands of Scotthsh

While Bedford's Richard Fuller celebrated

the 60th wedding anniversarx of his Scottish mother and English father.

In their union, as in the other union, they are

That is the week in 60 seconds. Are you looking forward to this week, to

the vote on Thursday? Or ard you nervous? I am nervous because I

think so much that state, the future of what I regard as the world's most

successful political, econolic and social union is under threat. So

you're nervous and you are dxcited? I am. The only argument I h`ve it

heard that is rational for maintaining the union with senior

politicians has been somethhng about keeping Scotland in the union

because it enables us to punch enough weight on the world's stage.

I don't that is the role as a government of a country of our level

in the world, now. That is ` post`imperial delusions of grandeur

as far as I'm concerned. I don't agree with that at all. Our

membership of the UN and thd Security Council. I think wd need

it. Thank you both of you for being here.

You can keep in touch via otr website where you will also find

links to Deborah McGurran's blog for all the latest political updates.

We're back at the same time next week, when

we'll be looking at the Labour Party Conference, now back to Andrew.

The last time a sewer was built in London was 150 years ago, otherwise

we would have a dirty River Thames. Andrew, back to you.

Can the No campaign still pull it off?

And even if they do is the whole of the UK now on the brink

I'm joined now by John McTernan former adviser to Gordon Brown

and Tony Blair, Alex Bell, former Head of Policy for the SNP

and Lindsay McIntosh, the Times Scottish Political Editor

And I'm delighted that Tommy and George have stayed too.

No fighting has broken out either. Where

No fighting has broken out either. have three full days to go

No fighting has broken out either. polling day. What is the state of

play? I think the poll of polls is accurate. 49 and 51%. What is vital

is to bring the undecided voters in, and they properly have about

500,000. I think there are a lot of undecided people. I think they know

which way they are leaning, but they haven't jumped. The hope of the no

campaign is that they will go for the status quo on Thursday. How do

you assess the state of the campaign now? The crucial thing is the big

swing. The swing has come towards yes, so will the momentum carry it

over the line? I will think it does, because it is an antiestablishment

swell, and its people responding to standard Western as the politicians

and saying that they want a new way -- Westminster politicians. I think

that yes will sneak it. A referendum can be more important than a general

election, and the Yes campaign have had the momentum. This was the week

the momentum stopped. We started the week looking as though yes were

going into the lead and then it stopped and most of the recent polls

show a distinct lead for the no campaign. A distinct lead? It is one

or two points. It is six in one poll, two in another, aiding

another. The poll of polls is a good way of measuring, and is it

statistically Nick -- nip and tuck? It is the week the momentum stopped.

About a fifth of the electorate That will be a quarter of the

turnout have voted already, by postal vote, and they are running

very strongly towards no, so there is a whole bank of votes there. The

postal votes are skewed to the over 60s, and that is the demographic

that the Yes campaign have had the biggest trouble with. Absolutely,

the Yes campaign faced a challenge amongst the 16 and 18-year-olds and

always based challenge with the older voters. Trust me, I was the

decision the day the civil servants made it possible for the 16 to

18-year-olds to vote, and we said there was a victory for the no

campaign in that alone. The young tend to be conservative by nature. I

think again that to say that the momentum has stopped when you had a

20 point lead, this is a referendum whether people will speak and they

will be heard. Except for the one poll which needs a huge health

warning because of the size of the sample, the momentum is

unquestionably all the way through August is going in the direction of

yes. It hasn't quite continue to get to the 55/45 four yes that Alex

Salmond thinks will be the result. I would agree with John. This was the

momentum stalled. We saw the three leaders coming up, and that kept

Alex Salmond off the front pages on the television and we had a raft of

economic warnings which, although they were dismissed as

scaremongering, they will have had a lot of traction with voters. What

does the no campaign have to do in the final three days? It has to

focus on the undecided, relentlessly. It has to do stick to

the question of risk and keep pushing back on Alex Salmond to say

it doesn't matter if the banks leave, it will all be all right on

the night. The huge question amongst the undecided voters is about the

economy. It is about jobs and currency, about business. That risk

is what will crystallise in the ballot box on Thursday and that has

to be the focus. What does the Yes campaign have to do? It has to drive

home that the swing to the Yes campaign is motivated by people who

want a different politics. They have decided amongst themselves that they

want to change Scotland. The unfortunate thing is, even though

the no campaign has had the chance to put up after proposals, they have

failed. The Scottish people want their powers were a purpose and they

say that only the Yes campaign can deliver that. There will be two days

of relentless campaigning from today, Monday and Tuesday, then the

media, the newspapers, including your own, will come out with the

final poll, the ones that will be the closest to the day that the

Scots actually go and vote. I think we will see more polling this week,

but what is interesting is the extent to which the pollsters are

picking up what is going on in the street. We know we have a huge

number of voters who have never voted before and are not engage with

politics, so what will they do? The third candidate in the election if

I can would in this way, are the polls. They might have a lot of

questions to answer on Friday morning. We were talking earlier

with George and Tommy about the Labour Party's consequences in all

of this. Gordon Brown, of course, has had a bit of a second coming as

a result of this referendum. I just want to play a clip of Gordon Brown

during the campaign and get a reaction. And I say this to Alex

Salmond himself. Up until today I am outside front line politics. If he

continues to peddle this deception, that the Scottish Parliament under

his leadership, and he cannot do anything to improve the health

service until he has a separate state, then I will want to join Joe

Hanlon want in and securing the return of a Labour government as

quickly as possible -- Johann Lamont. That was seen by some people

as Gordon Brown implying he might stand for the Scottish Parliament.

Whether it is yes or no, is Gordon Brown the saviour of Scottish

Labour? I did a double black the other night -- double act with him

the other night, and I must say he was a big beast all over again. He

crossed the stage Meli dealt with the audience brilliantly. He has a

certain presence, Gordon Brown, but he would really have to reinvent

himself quite considerably. He is capable of doing, but the man who

was the biographer of Jimmy Maxton, who pulled together the original red

paper on Scotland, he would have to be that Gordon Brown rather than the

Gordon Brown of some more melancholy events later. Tommy, you have both

been critical of the state of the Scottish Labour Party. Rather than

looking to Gordon Brown, which might be an interim solution, doesn't

Scottish Labour have to find a new generation of people to reignite it?

What George and I are agreed on and you have to remember this question

of independence see us disagreeing passionately, and in most other

things we find ourselves in agreement, one thing is clear,

Scottish Labour is finished. They have lost the heart and soul of

Scotland. The fact that we are discussing with four days to go an

independence referendum that is neck and neck, Labour have failed

miserably, absolutely miserably because they have given up

everything they stood for. The SNP has picked it up. They have just

taken on the bank -- mantle of a left of centre party and are picking

up support. Gordon and the rest in my opinion, they represent the past.

The yes vote on the Yes campaign represents the future. What do you

say to that? There is nothing socialist about an SNP that wants to

cut business tax by 3% in the pan. There is nothing socialist about an

SNP destroying further education so they can give middle-class people

free education. The Labour Party is alive and kicking. You can see if it

is Gordon Brown, or Jim Murphy with the 100 days tour. But I hesitate to

use this word, but they are kind of privatised from the Scottish Labour

Party. They have rode their own fallow. Jim Murphy was on the stump

because official Scottish Labour did not want him leading their campaign.

Gordon Brown was, I think, kept off the stage until it became so

critical that he had to be brought back. I agree with John, the SNP

talks left but acts right. That is before they get state powers. That

is what is exciting about the referendum, it's not about the SNP,

it's about the people deciding. What we have heard so far in the

referendum campaign is that there is a desperate yearning in the

electorate for real politics, purposeful politics and for the

people to be represented. It is probably to the eternal shame of

labour that they gave up that role and other people are now taking it

upon themselves. How would you assess the state of the Labour

Party? The problem is that it was demolished by the SNP in 2011 and

what they should have done since then and in other circumstances is

take a real look within themselves and brought forward new talent and

policies and watch out what they stood for. They've been unable to do

that because they are locked in a constitutional row. It is the plan

of the Nationalists to fight the first Scottish general election as

an independent nation as a nationalist party with its own

programme. You don't all go your own way. Why don't you do that? You have

more on your main reason to be, so why not go, left, right and centre

question you are presuming you don't go the one-way. I do not see the

function of the SNP after the yes vote. I think it is clear that there

is an SNP under Nicola Sturgeon an SNP which attracts votes from the

left and that is the one for me Whether that is called the SNP or

something else, I don't know. I think the assumption that we are

going into a mirror of old politics in a new world is just fundamentally

flawed. That is interesting. Let's just bring in the English

dimensional. In many ways, England has not spoken in this referendum

campaign. Whether it is yes or no, it will, and to give you a flavour

of what some in England might be thinking was saying, here is a clip

from John Redwood. We are fed up with this lopsided devolution, this

unfair devolution. Scotland gets first-class Devolution, Wales gets

second-class devolution and England gets nothing. If Wales wants the

same as us, they should have it and then there would be commonality so

we could discuss and decide in our own countries, in our own assemblies

in Parliament, all those things that are devolved. George, it was clear

that if Scotland voted yes for independence it has huge

implications for England than the UK, but it's also clear particularly

after Gordon Brown's intervention, even if it is no, it has huge

applications. You are, I suggest, agreeing with John Redwood that

there should be an English boys It would be a step too far for me to

agree with him -- English voice I appreciate I might have gone out on

a limb. He is the voice of Mars the Balkan from Mars. My own

constituents in Bradford are asking, what about us? All these things

being done, all the extra mile is being travel to Scotland, what about

us? Labour would be well advised to adjust quickly on this so that the

John Redwood types do not steal the show. England has yes to use -- yet

to speak. It's interesting when you hear a Labour backbencher in

Scotland talk about a command paper. He is not in government. Gordon

Brown is going round Scotland promising things and he has

absolutely no chance of delivering them. The MPs in England will say,

hey, what are you talking about We have never been discussed with that?

We have not agreed with that. The only way people in Scotland will get

the powers they deserve is by voting yes. Crystal ball time, Tommy, you

think it is 60/40. I will stick with it, because we have an unprecedented

election. 97% of Scotland is registered to vote. The working

class will vote in numbers never voted before. George? 55/45 for our

side. And if there is a rogue poll, the tek Levesley polled --

technically flawed poll, which should not be published because it

is so flawed, then we would be stretching towards what I am

predicting already. I think in the last few days we will reach that.

Come on. If the no campaign can get the silent majority out, they will

edge it. You think they will win, but how much? They cannot give up in

a second, a moment or a mile. It is that close. It will be won by the

passionate view. I will go for a narrow yes victory. I'm the George,

53 or 54% in favour of Joe -- no. -- I am with George. I will leave you

to argue about that later. Thank you for being with us on the special

Sunday politics from Edinburgh. That's all from us today

in Scotland. Don't forget the Daily Politics will

have continuing coverage of the referendum campaign all this

week on BBC2 at midday. On Thursday night Huw Edwards will

be in Glasgow and I will be in London to bring you live coverage

of the results on BBC1 from 10. 0 pm on a historic night for Scotland

and the rest of the United Kingdom. And I'll be back next Sunday

when we're live from the Labour Unless, of course, the referendum

result is so tumultuous even the Remember if it's Sunday,

it's the Sunday Politics.