28/09/2014 Sunday Politics East


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 28/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!



Morning folks and welcome to The Sunday Politics,


live from the Conservative Conference in Birmingham.


There will be one less Conservative MP here after Mark Reckless defected


He joins us live from his constituency, where he has


It has not been the best of starts for the Prime Minister, as he


arrives in Birmingham for the last Tory conference before the election.


On top of the Reckless defection, a junior Tory minister has resigned


RAF jets have carried out their first mission over Iraq


Here in the east, with our roads, railways and rural broadband left


wanting, we ask what have the Conservatives done for ts?


And they're smiling now but can UKIP really deliver when in power?


In London, how the richest 1% are pulling further away, and why those


priced out are choosing to move away.


And joining me, three of the country's most loyal journalists,


who sadly have yet to resign or defect to our inferior rivals.


Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee and Janan Ganesh.


And, of course, they'll be tweeting throughout the programme.


And you too can get involved by using the hashtag #BBCSP.


At the current rate of Tory resignations,


Mr Cameron could be speaking to an empty hall when he makes his keynote


address to the Tory conference here in Birmingham tomorrow.


It's been a classic car crash of a start to the conference, with a UKIP


defection, a minister shamed into resignation by a sex scandal and


Ed Miliband's memory lapses now look like a little local difficulty.


Here's what the Prime Minister had to say


These things are frustrating and frankly counter-productive and


rather senseless. If you want to have a European referendum, if you


want to get the deficit down, if you want to build a stronger Britain


that we can be proud of, there is only one option, which is to have a


Conservative government after the next election.


And Mark Reckless joins me now from Rochester.


Welcome to the programme. Why did you lie to all your Conservative


colleagues and mislead those who elected you? Well, I am keeping


faith with my constituents and keeping my promises to them. You


heard the Prime Minister saying that the Conservative led government was


dealing with the deficit and cutting immigration. The reality is, we have


increased the national debt by more in five years than even Labour


managed in 13, and immigration is back up to the levels we saw under


Labour. I believe in the promises I made in 2010, and I want to keep my


words to my electorate, not least to deal with the deficit, cut


immigration, reform the political system, to localise powers back to


the community, particularly over house-building. The government has


broken its word on all those things are. I want to keep my word to my


voters here, and that is why I have done what I have done, by moving to


UKIP. You have not kept your words to your Conservative constituency


chairman. You assured him 48 hours ago that you would not defect, and


you left his voice mail on the Conservative Party chairman's office


telephone, missing to come to Birmingham to campaign for the


Tories. This is your voice mail .. I have just picked up your e-mail ..


So, Friday night, telling Grant Shapps you are coming to Birmingham


to campaign for the Tories. The next day, you are joining UKIP. Why did


you are a? I sounded a bit more hesitant on that call than I usually


do, and I am not sure if that was the full conversation. But you


cannot discuss these things in advance, you have to make a


decision. I have decided the future of this country is better served by


UKIP then it is by the Conservative Party under David Cameron. I made a


lot of promises to my constituents, and I want to keep those promises.


That is why I am moving to UKIP so I can deliver the change this


country really needs. In May of this year, you said that Nigel Farage,


quote, poses the most serious threat to a Tory victory at the election.


So, you agree, voting UKIP means a Labour government? I think voting


UKIP means getting UKIP. While in the past a disproportionate number


of UKIP people were ex-Conservatives, now, they are


winning a lot more people, from all parties. People are so disillusioned


with the political class in Westminster, that they have not


voted often for a generation. Those are the people Nigel Farage is


inspiring, and frankly, he has also inspired me. What he has done in the


last 20 years, building his party, getting people from all walks of


life, sending up for ordinary people, I think deserves support.


That is a key reason why I am moving. UKIP are now the agents of


change. You said it poses them a serious threat to a Tory victory? My


ambition is not a Tory victory. We made all of these promises in 2 10


as Conservatives, and they have been broken. We now hear from David


Cameron about English votes for English laws, supported by Nick


Clegg as well, but that is what we said in our manifesto in 2010, and


we have done absolutely nothing about it. It is not credible now to


pretend that you are going to do those things. They have omitted to


give every Scot ?1600 per year in definitely. If you want to stand up


for the English taxpayer, and really tackle the debt, then UKIP are the


party who will do that. But there is nothing principled about this, this


is just an attempt to save your skin. You said UKIP stopped you


winning in 2005 - UKIP did not stand in 2010, and you won. You are


frightened that UKIP would beat you in the next election, this is to


save your skin to me you think I am doing this because I am frightened,


you think this is the easy option, to abandon my position in


Parliament, but my principles on the line? On the contrary, you look at


MPs who have moved party before almost none of them have given their


voters to chance to have a say on what they have done. I am asking


permission from my voters, and I am moving to UKIP because I believe


many of the people in my constituency have been let down by a


Conservative led government, and that what UKIP is saying appeals to


decent, hard-working people, who want to see real change in our


country. If they do not agree, then they can vote in a by-election and


have their say on who they want to be their MP. I am being open and


honest, giving people a say. I am trying to do the right thing by my


constituents, and whatever the risk is to me personally, I think it is


the right thing to do. It is what MPs should be in politics to try and


do for the people they represent. Your defection, coming after Douglas


Carswell's, confirms the claim that UKIP is largely a depository for


disaffected right-wing Tories like yourself, isn't it? On the contrary,


the number of people I met in Doncaster yesterday was


extraordinary. When I first went to Conservative conferences 20 years


ago, there was some enthusiasm for politics, I remember Norman Tebbit


speaking against Maastricht, people fought they could change things


there was real politics. But I do not think you will see that at


Birmingham this week, it is PR people, lobbyists, corporate, few


ordinary members of. At Ancaster, people had saved up for months just


to get the rail ticket to Doncaster. People who believe in UKIP, who


believe in Nigel Farage, who believe in the team, as agents of change,


who can actually deal with a political class at Westminster which


has let able down. We want proper reform to the political system,


which David Cameron promises but does not deliver. Final question -


after the next election, the Prime Minister is going to be either David


Cameron or Ed Miliband, that is the choice, one or the other - who would


you prefer? Well, what we would prefer is to get the most UKIP


policies implemented. We want a first rate we want to deal with


immigration. I asked about who you wanted to be Prime Minister. We will


look at the circumstances. We need as many UKIP MPs as possible, to


restore trust in politics. If people vote UKIP, they will get UKIP. How


serious is this? I think it is very serious. It is the old Tory disease,


destroyed John Major, and it has been bubbling away again. It is


beginning to feel like the worst days of Labour in the early nineteen


eighties. It matters, because people care passionately. It is nothing


like Labour in the early 1980s, it is bad, but it is nothing like that.


There are these very strong strands. People like David Davis


writing a large piece in the Daily Mail attacking the leader on the


first day of the conference. That is the kind of thing that Labour used


to do. That is what David Davis does all the time! But this is authentic


in the sense that there is a real, genuine dispute about Europe. Some


of us were not around in the 19 0s, but I imagine it is pretty bad.


There is the short-term problem of the by-election they might lose the


media problem of the general election which they cannot win if


UKIP remain anywhere near their current level of support. But in


many ways the longer term question is the most pressing, which is, does


it make is the most pressing, which is, does


Party to remain one party, or would it not be better for the hard-core


of 20-30 intransigent Eurosceptics to essentially join UKIP or form


their own party? At least the Conservatives would become more


internally manageable. And probably lose the next election. Probably,


yes. That is what you are advising them? If the reward is to have a


coherent party in 15 years' time. It is just as well you are a


columnist, not a party strategist. I was an anorak in the 1980s, who


watched the Labour conference on the TV. Were you wearing your anorak? Of


course I was, that is how sad I am. But once again the crisis from UKIP


has forced the Prime Minister to step in an even more Eurosceptic


direction. Said on television what he was trying not to say, which is


that if he does not get his way in the European negotiations, he will


recommend to the British people that we should go. He began by saying, as


I have always said, and when they say that, you know they are saying


something new. He basically said, Britain should not stay if it is not


in Britain's interests. I think this is big stakes for both the Tories


and four UKIP. The Tories are able to write off Clacton. Rochester is


number 271 on the UKIP friendly list. If the Tories win it, big


moment for them. If UKIP lose it, this strategy of various will be


facing a bit of a setback. To what extent are Mark Reckless's


views shared by Conservative The Sunday Politics commissioned


an exclusive poll of Conservative Pollsters ComRes spoke to over ,000


councillors - that's almost an eighth of their


council base - and Eleanor Garnier There is not a single party


conference at the seaside this year, and Sunday Politics could not get


through them all without a trip to the coast. So here we are on the


shore in Sussex. There are plenty of Conservative councillors here, and


Tory MPs as well, but one challenge they all face is UKIP, who have got


their sights on coastal towns. Places like Worthing East and surer


and, with high numbers of pensioners, providing rich pickings


for UKIP. In West Sussex, the Tories run the county council, but UKIP are


the official opposition, with ten councillors. We cannot lose any more


ground to UKIP. If we lose any more ground, if you look at the way it


has swung from us to them, it is getting near to being the middle


point, where we might start losing seats which we have always regarded


as safe seats. So, it has got to be stemmed, it cannot go any further.


Our exclusive survey looked at the policy areas where the Conservatives


are vulnerable to UKIP. If an EU Referendum Bill is called tomorrow,


45% say they would vote to leave, 39% would stay in. Asked about


immigration... It was those issues, Europe and


immigration, that Mark Reckless said were the head of his decision. I


promised to cut immigration while treating people fairly and humanely.


I cannot keep that promise as a Conservative, I can keep it as


UKIP. When asked if Conservative councillors would like an electoral


pact with UKIP in the run-up to the general election, one third said


they support the idea. 63% are opposed and 7% don't know.


Conservative councillors who left the party to join UKIP say it wasn't


easy. I left because basically the Conservatives left me. I saw it as a


difficult decision to change, but what I was seeing with UKIP was


freed. Me being able to speak for my residents. Back to our survey and on


climate change 49% said it was happening, but that humans are not


to blame. Our survey showed that 60% think David Cameron was wrong to


pursue legalising gay marriage, with 31% saying it was the right thing to


do and 9% not sure. In Worthing councillors said gay marriage was


divisive. That has really been an issue here, it might have damaged


the party slightly, and I think in a way by setting a rule like that it


is a very religious thing and it is almost trying to play God to make


that decision. But some of the party's toughest decisions have been


over the economy. 56% in our survey thought the spending cuts the


Government has so far announced have not gone far enough. 6% were not


sure. They are prepared for difficult decisions, but local


activists say the party's voice must be clearer. I think the message has


to be more forceful, it has to be specially targeted to the


ex-Conservative voters who now vote UKIP, especially in this area, the


vast majority of UKIP people are disillusioned Conservatives. The


message has to be loud and strong, come back and we are the party to


give you what you want. With just eight months until the general


election, the pressure is on and local Conservatives are searching


for clues to help their party stem the flow of defections. Joining me


now is William Hague, the former Foreign Secretary and the Leader of


the House of Commons. Tories like Mark Reckless are


defecting to UKIP because they don't trust the party leadership to


deliver on Europe, do they? They believe people like you and David


Cameron will campaign to stay in and they are right. They said before


they defected that people should vote Conservative to get a


referendum on Europe, and that is right of course. The only way to get


a referendum is to do that and this is the point, the people should


decide. However a future government decides it will campaign, it should


be the people of the country who decide. Can you say to our viewers


this morning that is not enough powers are repatriated back to


Britain, you would want to come out, can you say that? Our objective


is to get those powers and stay in. The answer to the question is I


won't be deciding, David Cameron won't be deciding, you the voters


will be deciding. But you have to give us your view. If you don't get


enough powers back, would you vote to come out and recommended? Our


objective is to get those powers and be able to stay in. You just get


endless speculation years in advance. I will decide at the time


how I will vote. Surely that is the rational position for everyone to


take but I want a referendum to take place. I understand that. As you


pointed out to Mark Reckless just now, unless there is a Conservative


government, people won't have that choice. Under a Labour government


they will not get a choice at all. Our survey of Tory councillors shows


that almost 50% would vote to leave the EU in a referendum. I think it


showed, wasn't it 45, and 39%, but again, I'm pretty sure they will


decide at the time. They will want to see what a future government


achieves in a renegotiation before they decide what to vote in a


referendum. Unless David Cameron is Prime Minister and there is a


Conservative government, there will not be a renegotiation. That is a


point you have made four times. I think they have got it. Your Cabinet


colleague says we should not be scared of quitting the EU, but you


went native in the Foreign Office, didn't you? You used to be a


Eurosceptic, you are now the Foreign Office line man. No, I don't think


so! We brought back the first reduced European budget ever in


history. Even Margaret Thatcher .. Leaving the EU scares you, doesn't


it? Not much scares me after 26 years in politics but we want to do


the best thing for the country. Where we scared when we got us out


of liability for Eurozone bailouts? We were not scared of anybody.


People said we couldn't achieve things but we negotiated these


things. We can do that with a wider negotiation in Europe. Mr Reckless


says he cannot keep the Conservative promise to tackle immigration. You


have failed to keep your promise to keep net immigration down. You


promised to cut it below 100,00 , you failed. It is over 200,000


people. We have cut it from 250 000 in 2005, the last figures were


240,000. I think we can file that under F four failed. It includes


students, we want them in the country. You knew that when you made


the promise. But has it come down? Yes, it has. Have we stopped


the promise. But has it come down? coming here because of our benefit


system? Yes. None of that happened under Labour. If Mark Reckless had


his way, it would be more likely we would have a Labour government. They


have an open door policy on immigration. You are not just losing


MPs to UKIP, you are losing voters. Polling by Michael Ashcroft shows


that 20% of people who voted Tory in 2010 have abandoned youth and three


quarters of them are voting UKIP now. We will see in the general


election. Politics is very fluid in this country and we shouldn't deny


that in any way but UKIP thought they were going to win the


by-election in Newark, we had a thumping Conservative victory, and I


think opinion polls are snapshots of opinion now. They are not forecast


of the general election and we will be doing everything we can to get


our message across. Today we are announcing 3 million more


apprenticeships in the next Parliament. I think this is what


people will be voting on, rather than who has defected. Your activist


base once parked with UKIP. Our survey shows a third of Tory


councillors would like a formal pact with UKIP. Why not? It shows two


thirds are against it. No, it shows one third want it. I read the


figures, it showed 67% don't want it. We are not going to make a pact


with other parties, and they don't work in the British electoral system


even if they were desirable. You are sharing the Cabinet committee on


English votes for English laws. Is further devolution for Scotland


conditional on progress towards English devolution? No, the


commitment to Scotland is unconditional. We will meet the


commitments to Scotland but we believe, we the Conservatives


believe, that in tandem with that we have to resolve these questions


about fairness to the rest of the UK as well. That will depend on other


parties or the general election result. Are you committed to the


Gordon Brown timetable? Yes, absolutely. So you are committed to


producing draft legislation by Burns night, that is at the end of


January. Will you produce proposals for English votes on English laws by


then? We will, but whether they are agreed across the parties will


depend on the other parties. There was no sign that they were agreeable


at the Labour conference. We will produce our ideas on the same


timetable as the timetable for Scottish devolution. You will


therefore bring forward proposals for English votes for English laws


by the end of January? Yes. And will you attempt to get them on the


statute book before the election? The commitment in Scotland is to


legislate after the election. You will publish a bill beforehand? We


will publish proposals beforehand. I don't exclude doing something before


the election, but the Scottish timetable is to legislate for the


further devolution after the general election, whoever wins the election.


Have you given thought as to what English votes for English laws would


mean? I have thought a lot of it over 15 years. I am not going to


prejudge what the outcome will be, but it does mean in essence that


when decisions are taken, decisions that only affect England or only


England and Wales, then only the MPs from England and Wales should be


making those decisions. You can achieve that in many different


ways. Is that it for English devolution, is that what it amounts


to? That is devolution to England if you like, but within England there


is a lot of other devolution going on and we might well want to extend


that further. We have given more freedom to local authorities, there


is a lot of scope to do more of that, but that in itself is not the


answer to the problem of what happens at Westminster. You haven't


just given Scotland more devolution or planned to do it, you have also


enshrined the Barnett formula and that seems to be in perpetuity. It


is widely regarded as being unfair to Wales and many of the poorer


English regions. Why do you perpetuate it? It will become less


relevant overtime if more tax-raising powers... It goes all


the way back to the 1970s, we made a commitment on that, we will keep our


commitments to Scotland as more -- but as more tax-raising powers


devolved, the Barnett formula is less significant. If you transfer ?5


billion of tax-raising powers to Scotland, 5 billion comes off the


Barnett formula? It will be a lot more complicated than that, but yes,


as their own decisions about taxation are made, the grand from


Westminster will go down. And you can guarantee that if there is a


majority Conservative government, there will be English votes for


English laws after the election Yes, I stress again that there are


different ways of doing it but if there is no cross-party agreement on


that, the Conservatives will produce our proposals and campaign for them


in the general election. Don't go away because I want to move on to


some other matters. Now to the fight against so-called


Islamic State terrorists. Yesterday, RAF Tornado jets carried


out their first flights over Iraq since MPs gave their approval for


air-strikes against the militants. When you face a situation with


psychobabble -- psychopathic killers who have already brutally beheaded


one of our own citizens, who have already launched and tried to


execute plots in our own country to maim innocent people, we have a


choice - we can either stand back from this and say it is too


difficult, let's let someone else try to keep our country safe, or we


take the correct decision to have a full, comprehensive strategy but


let's be prepared to play our role to make sure these people cannot do


not trust harm. And William Hague is still with me -


until July he was, of course, Why have only six Tornado jets being


mobilised? Do not assume that is all that will be taking part in this


operation. That is all that has been announced and I do not think we


should speculate. Even the Danes are sending more fighter jets. There is


no restriction in the House of Commons resolution passed on Friday


on what we can do. So why so little? Do not underestimate what


our Tornados can do. They have some unique capabilities, capabilities


which have been specifically asked for by our allies. When you are on


the wrong end of six Tornados, it will not feel like a small effort.


But there will be other things which can add to that effort. We are


joining in a month after the operation started, we are late, we


are behind America, France, Australia, Jordan, the UAE, Bahrain,


Qatar, one hand tied behind our backs cause of the rule about not


attacking Syria - why is the British government leading from behind?


First of all, we are a democratic country, and you know all about


Parliamentary approval. You could have recalled parliament. We have


done that, with a political consensus. Other European countries


also took the decision on Friday to send their military assets. Our


allies are absolutely content with that, and Britain will play an


important role, along with many other nations, including Arab


nations. General Sir David Richards Sheriff, who just steps down as the


Nato Deputy Supreme Commander, he condemns the spineless lack of


leadership and the absence of any credible strategy. It is


embarrassing,isn't it? Of course, they turn into armchair generals. We


are playing an important role, we are a democratic country. Your


viewers will remember, we had a vote last year on military action in


Syria and we were defeated in the House of Commons, a bad moment for


our foreign policy. We have taken care to bring this forward when we


can win a vote in the House of Commons, and that is how we will


proceed. The air Chief Marshal until recently in charge of the RAF, he


says, it makes no sense to bomb Iraq but not Syria. He calls the decision


ludicrous. Of course, it DOES make sense to bomb Iraq, because the


Iraqi government has asked for our assistance. This came up a lot in


the debate on Friday, and the Prime Minister explained, similar to what


I have just been saying, that there is not a political consensus about


Syria in the House of Commons. When we did it last year, we were


defeated, and it was described by all commentators as a huge blow to


the government and to our foreign policy. So, we will bring forward


proposals when there is a majority in this country to do so in the


House of Commons. Professor Michael Clarke, one of the world top experts


on military strategy and history, he says there are very few important IS


targets in northern Iraq, that they are all in Syria, and we are


limiting ourselves to the periphery of the campaign. First of all, just


because you are not doing everything does not mean you should not do


something. Secondly, the United States and other countries are


engaged in the action against targets in Syria. This is a


coalition effort, with people doing different things. Thirdly, if we


were to put their proposal to the House of Commons tomorrow, and it


was defeated, we would not have achieved a great deal. You do not


know it would have been defeated. The Labour Party has given no


indication they would have supported that. So, you are hostage to the


Labour Party? We have to win a democratic vote in the House of


Commons, and the Labour Party is a very large part of the House of


Commons. You are asking us to pursue a policy which at the moment could


be defeated in Parliament. Is it not embarrassing to be on the wrong side


of so many of these military experts? Why should we trust the


judgment of here today, gone tomorrow, politicians? We have the


military experts with us now. We have a national security council, we


do not have sofa government, unlike the last government. The national


security council is chaired by the Prime Minister. Alongside the Chief


of Defence Staff and the heads of the intelligence agencies. And we


take decisions together with the people who have the information


now. So, you will know what British and American intelligence says about


Syria. The Prime Minister has said there is a danger that the


British-born jihadists will come back and attack us. But the


intelligence reports which you will have seen are clear - Al-Qaeda and


its associates are selecting, indoctrinating and training


jihadists in Syria, not Iraq. Does that not make the Syrian exclusion


even more ludicrous? I cannot comment on intelligence. Is the


situation in Syria I direct threat to this country? Yes, it is. Have we


excluded action? No, we haven't Could you come back to the House?


The Prime Minister said, it was in the motion put to the House of


Commons, that if we want to take action in Syria, we will come back


to the House of Commons. But we have not taken any decision about that


and we would not do so if we thought we were going to be defeated again.


The government supports US strikes on Syria, show you must relieve they


are legal. Either way the legal basis differs from one country to


another, according to their reading of international law. But you have


supported it. We do believe that they and Arab countries are taking


action legally and we support their action. But I understand your


legitimate questions. But it comes back to your basic question, why in


Iraq and not Syria. Nonetheless it is important to take action in


Iraq. We are also engaged in Syria in building up the political


strength of the more moderate opposition and in trying to bring


about a peace agreement, and we do not exclude action in Syria in the


future. If we propose doing something, then we ask for the


specific legal advice. Why would you not ask for the legal advice


anyway? Because you have to be sure of the legal advice at the time and


also we do not comment on the advice given to us by the Law officers Mr


Blair ended up publishing his. That was because there was a huge legal


dispute. So you have not had legal advice yet that Britain attacking


Syria would be legal? The legal situation is unlikely to be the


barrier in this case, let me put it that way. Within international law,


you can act in the event of extreme humanitarian distress and elective


self-defence, so one can imagine strong legal justification, but of


course, we will take the legal advice at the time.


watching The Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who


Scotland. Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead.


Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics East, I'm Stewart White.


Today, at the start of the Conservatives Party


conference, one of our MPs has been forced to resign as a minister.


Brooks Newmark, the MP for Braintree,


is standing down as the Minhster for Civil Society after alldgations


From Birmingham, we'll be speaking to the MP for Great Yarmouth


and Local Government Ministdr Brandon Lewis about the Torx record


And of course UKIP have been holding their conference in Doncastdr.


We now know Douglas Carswell, who defected from the Conservatives


a couple of weeks ago, has been joined by another.


But let's start at the Tory party conferencd, where


they were hoping that David Cameron would be able to set out his


But of course it's not that easy, the party is making


the headlines this morning for all the wrong reasons.


And one of our MPs is right at the heart of them.


A few minutes ago I spoke to Andrew Sinclair in Birmingh`m.


You can't have a worse start to a party conference, people I have


spoken to today are spitting blood over Mark Reckless has decided to


join Douglas Carswell and join UKIP. When you ask about Brooks Ndwmark


they shake their head in disbelief. Looks Newmark issued a statdment


saying he was standing down as minister because story in the Sunday


Mirror and he pledged his continued support to the government. He called


one of my colleagues that hd has been very foolish and he is sorry.


This brings to an end a verx brief career for Brooks Newmark as a


minister for civil society. He upset several charities this month when he


called them to stick to knitting and stay out of politics. Will he stay


on as an MP? The expectation is that he will. This is embarrassing for


him but he has not broken any laws. He is highly regarded at Westminster


as an expert in economics and Middle East affairs, he also rather


ironically played a very big role in encouraging more women into


politics. He will keep his head down for a few weeks but he will not go.


Our studio guests this mornhng, George Nobbs,


the Labour leader of Norfolk Council and Tim Aker, one of our UKHP MEPs.


You have had some defections, do you have any more coming? We will see.


We might have a few surprisds here and there. We are the party changing


politics. What a couple of lonths we have had. We are going into a series


of by`elections where we ard looking to win in Clacton and Hayward and


Middleton is scaring the Labour Party. We are read could have on the


country and it is a good tile to be in UKIP. You say you are ch`nging


politics but what happened hn Clacton was traditional all style


politics you got rid of your local candidate and stuck in someone else.


An MP stood on a point of principle and rather than defect and stay the


let the people decide. Mark Reckless is now doing the noble thing,


letting the people decide as that is what drives UKIP. George Nobbs it is


not a great start for the Tory party conference. In fairness the new ``


the Labour Party conference was not a great success. I thought that was


quite good. I must say, be fair I think the winner out of the


conference season without any doubt is Nigel Farage, to produce a rabbit


out of a hat like that was brilliant and let's not be churlish about it


he has done very well. That is all style politics, isn't it? It is a


sign that the Conservative Party is imploding. It reminds me of the last


days of John Major when Labour MPs were all, sorry, Conservative MPs


were defecting to Labour. Wd will speak more in a while.


The Conservatives were hoping for a clear run this week to


highlight what they have achieved over the last four years.


So with a by`election just days away, what have they done


On our roads, the A11 is nearly finished, but


There have been constant delays to the plan to improve the A14


The coalition scrapped the hdea then proposed a toll road


It should get started after the election next year.


And despite lobbying from MPs there has been little


improvement to the A120 in Dssex and the A47 in Norfolk.


If the a 47 does not get improved then obviously for a wholly based in


King 's Lynn it's just makes it more and more difficult to make dnds


On the trains, the way the government handled the biddhng


process for the West Coast lainline meant there were delays in `warding


the long term franchises. And that means despite various manifdstos and


summits there is still no improvement to the line between


London and Norwich. There are promises to improve the Ely


junction, with the help of loney from Europe, but work won't start


for another couple of years. And no sign yet of a faster servicd on the


West Anglia line from Stansted through Essex. And when it comes to


airports, the question of c`pacity in the southeast still hasn't been


answered. Even on broadband, where there have been improvements it s


still not enough. Only this week a delegation went to Westminster to


get things moving much quicker, especially in country areas.


The holiday homes here take a huge number of bookings to the Internet,


I know that one lost their operation for two days at the hat to relocate


their operation to one of the colleges. This is thousands of


pounds worth of lost revenud. Questions for Brandon Lewis, the


local government and Communhties Minister responsible for hotsing and


planning at the MP for great Yarmouth. I spoke to him a while ago


and put it to him that therd has been a promise to sort out for the


last four years broadband and it still is not any better. Thd speed


of superfast broadband is moving right across the country, it is the


nominal. It is moving on a week by week but there are areas whdre we


have some real difficulties in how we get broadband out there, how to


get the lines out there to lake them work for everyone in rural `reas.


How long will this take? We always aim to have superfast broadband is


widely available, 80 or 90% of the population by next year. We are


working to deliver that. But looking to what is coming next. I mdt with


suppliers last week to see how we make sure that new housing


development have superfast broadband available on day one. Let's talk


about the roads, the A14 has been a mess as far as the government has


been concern, still nothing on the a 47? When can we expect things like


that? We have a phenomenal success and I am proud to work with a team


from members of Parliament from across Norfolk and Cambridgdshire


and Southwark. We have the ` 11 committed very early on and we are


going to benefit from that hn the formal finishing is just a few weeks


away. We have the a 47 to work for in the a 47 must be the next big


target. We want to get access for businesses. It is something that has


been on the table for a long time and residents will be frustrated,


Labour took it off the list in 005. We are working to get it back on the


agenda. We can both agree that we need it but you have been in office


for four years and it has not been back on the table and we have no


start date. The a 47 is back on the table, Labour took it off and


downgraded the road back into a thousand five, 2006, so it was not


on the table at all, the Department for Transport made it clear that the


see it as a key opportunity, part of a core strategy going forward. We


are in a better place. We h`ve an ordinance statement and the budget


coming and a general election. I am confident that a cross`partx


coalition across Norfolk and Cambridge are working together will


be able to get the right result for the a 47. In one word, will be ``


will this be in the Autumn statement? You will have to ask the


Chancellor. It is never good to try and prejudge what the Chancdllor


will do ahead of the Autumn statement. We will make the case for


him and the Department for Transport, who are clear th`t they


do support the endeavour. The government is making massivd


investments in infrastructure across the country and we want the a 4 on


this list and get it going. Can I ask you about the messy start to


your conference season? You have had this defection and you have the


Brooks Newmark study,... Yot must bear in mind we have the


announcement of the rent to buy programme, and fantastic news that


we are lodging 100,000 new homes, come on! Sorry to interrupt You


know I am asking about the other things, do not give me all of that.


Far more people in great Yarmouth and Norfolk will benefit from


100,000 start homes, we must be very clear that the situation dods not


make sense. Even in the last few days, to get an EU referendtm to let


people have their chance, h`ve their say on whether they want to be in or


out we need a Conservative government. There is only one way


for a referendum and that is to vote Conservative. And the Brooks Newmark


situation? I think he has bden very clear, he has apologised and


resigned and he and his famhly needs the time to move on and movd


forward. Thank you very much. Can I ask you just a little bit


about what you think the Tories have achieved as far as he roads have


concerned? The a 11 was a L`bour plan but the Tories have done it.


They have done the final bit and that is very good but the a 47 is


essential to the economy of not just Norfolk but the whole of East


Anglia. We get promise after promise. That is not just a Tory


thing, promise after promisd happened in the Labour


administration. All central government failed to recognhse the


importance of East Anglia and this is another reason why we nedd some


more devolution. We know better in East Anglia how to spend money on


infrastructure than MPs in Westminster and government


departments. He wants to ch`nge politics? You want politics to be


different, like UKIP say? Both are dissatisfied with the way that the


Conservative government runs this country and it is London centric,


and the problems `` and the provinces of England are ignored.


The idea that the decision should be made by all the MPs sitting on it is


the afternoon is nonsense. The problem is that decisions are made


centrally and they should bd taken when the influence real people.


Temme, you would cut taxes but how did you pay roads? If you look at EU


contributions, ?55 million per day in foreign aid going to 11 billion.


He would cut foreign aid? Wd would cut it a substantial amount. There


is a small fraction of that foreign aid budget that is actually spent on


inoculations and clean water. We would keep that, the good ehght but


the aid that goes missing, why are we doing it? We would take the tax


burden off the coolest people and make sure we get our priorities


right. This is long`term pl`nning. This is crucial with the ro`ds. The


Tories said they would get immigration down to the tens of


thousands but it is in the puarters of a million. How can anyond plan


with infrastructure when thdy do not know how many people will come to


use the roads? Until you control your borders you cannot plan


infrastructure. I want rows for prosperity, not as a means of


cutting immigration. I was saying `` I was not saying that. As a matter


of planning you must make stre you know who will use the roads and


ready population centres will be so you can make a long`term pl`nning


and investment decisions. Thank you very much. Let's talk now about the


UKIP conference in Doncaster, with another UKIP MP joining the party.


The party wants to show it can be responsible. It has more th`n 1 0


council in many parts of thd region the UK Independence party is very


much part of local politics. Nightly battle in a couple of UKIP


councillors are meeting with a member of the local residents


Association. We feel that wd are open to any opportunity, anx


opportunist developer who pops up on the green belt and that is ` concern


to us. Basildon Council havd not got their strategy in place. With 1


councillors in Basildon UKIP is the second`largest party here at the


wicket has been a steep curve. We are effectively 12 disparatd people


who need to start blending together to work out what we are going to do


and how we are going to do ht. We have good ideas and we are there to


represent the views and concerns and wishes and interests of the people.


At times it has been confushng. The party does not tell its councils how


to vote but that meant therd was embarrassment and anger in some UKIP


councillors in Basildon orddred against a UKIP policy to abolish the


Cabinet system. We do not h`ve a whip system. That is a double edged


sword. If you have a policy which is a UKIP policy and you have


campaigned on this then unldss you actually have your constitudnts


saying we do not like that policy then you should go along with it. I


do not think some of the people actually realise that at thd time.


The party has a notable presence on several authorities, they are part


of the rainbow coalition running Norfolk County Council and xet every


few months there seems to bd some sort of controversy involving a UKIP


counsellor. Most appear to be hard`working but the other parties


often complain that they ard about lightweight. They are nice people.


They are nice people. Jack Whitehall. You have simplistic


solutions to companies with questions. Then cancelled you must


understand the belief, you have to put meat on the bones and you have


to follow these things throtgh. You have to understand the procdss and


come up with solutions. Thex do not. They are always looking for a simple


answer. Nigel Farage does not seem worried. He said UKIP counchllors


are making local politics rdlevant. Most of these councillors h`ve only


been on councils for a year. My advice to every UKIP counsellor was


do not run before you can w`lk. Find your feet. That actually applies to


politicians from all parties. One of the problems is that your


councillors are not whipped so in Basildon you see them voting against


each other. That is confusing for the public. If we are going to


introduce the idea that elected people should have the own lind on


hanging or abortion or bypasses or whatever else it is that is a darn


sight healthier than the whhp system we have seen in politics coling from


this place which is frankly with her members of Parliament and m`ny


councillors nothing more th`n ciphers. Nigel Farage received a


standing ovation as he arrived at a public meeting in Clacton. Xou can


see the large turnout is proof that people are prepared to take them


seriously. The other parties hope this is all short lived. It is a


protest vote, I am not complacent, it is a strong movement, but the


general election will be about the economy and about who is thd best


reader and I think David Caleron wins on both of those scores. UKIP


believe the public are lookhng for something different. They mhght


still be finding their feet but they believe they are here to st`y.


Tim, you really do have to have a policy and stick to it if you are a


party, don't you? You can't have only one voting is they want. Isn't


it incredible that we actually have people who discuss and debate things


in their groups? And do what residents want. People are sick of


the old politics of party m`nagers are whipping their representatives


to do what they say and thex all look and sound the same. With UKIP


it is different which is whx we are getting excellent results in


Basildon, Southend, Castle point, the Rock, elsewhere. You will know


that if you have a policy and do not stick to it you have broken your


promise to the people who vote for you. With reference to the Basildon


thing... In any council! Thd majority of Basildon Council has


voted for this and I am surd it will go back. We are the only party who


wanted a proper recall mech`nism so the people if they see their


representative has gotten b`ck on their promises can initiate a


by`election. But what we got from the Tories was what had down. They


say that MPs should be the one to judge whether MPs have brokdn


promises. That is a stitch tp which is why people are coming to UKIP.


You have worked with UKIP on Norfolk County Council. Yes we have. We


profoundly disagree on national policy, UKIP and I, but we


profoundly disagree with other parties, greens and liberals, and


they with each other. On Norfolk County Council we believe wd should


work together for the benefht of the people of Norfolk. Do you think they


have been whipped to agree with you or not? Now, I know they have not.


They concede the logic of a sensible argument. We have so many problems


left as a specialist childrdn's services and we have to work


together and leave ideology aside and look for what is best for the


people of Norfolk. We will continue doing this. You have been in


politics a few years. It must be very difficult for you to work out


how you deal with the party that does not have a party mechanism


working as far as whipping hs concerned. It is very difficult but


then, the Green Grid do not have that system either. And the Liberals


do not have that system, thd Labour Party is the only one of thd four


that actually has a whipping system. Fortunately if the issue was a


simple one, what is the best policy for the people of Norfolk, we can


just come to that agreement and do it. The great thing about what we


have done this that all four parties and two independents work together.


One party that was once in power does not want to work with `nybody


else. That is how it works. The Labour Party said that you `re OK on


simple issues. You see if it is something simple you can work


together. Common`sense ideas that can benefit the people. You have


seen in Norfolk how it can work We will speak more later. Let's hope it


stays fine for the people in Southend. This is our round`up of


the week in 60 seconds. Another deluge disaster, part of


Essex flooded again this wedk. Traders in Southend are adalant the


new look seafront is to blale. Masses of concrete, nor what


attracts or diversions for water. It all games are away. Plans for a


giant aquarium in Bedfordshhre became an expensive watch it when


planning permission ran out this week. But will developers ever pay


back the ?4 million alone bx the taxpayer? We worked hard for our


money, we have given it to these people. Where is it? Enthushasm for


a 900 acre solar farm at Peterborough seems to have dried up.


The City Council put its pl`ns on hold. It is high time that the City


Council faced the reality and pulled the plug on even more public


expenditure. There was a flood of support for a delegate at the Labour


conference his brother died in a diabetic, after his benefits were


stopped. Noel lessons have been learned. People are still dxing


Very quickly both of you on the question of solar farms werd you


stand? I am in favour. And would people who live nearby have the


opportunity of seeing, I do not wanted here? There has been a public


meeting at the local people seem to be in favour. If they were ` case


that we would not go ahead. There should be the mechanism for local


people to have their say, it is ridiculous that we are caushng power


stations are putting these windmills and solar farms anywhere. It is


crackers. So you disagree? Xou would not have solar panels as part of


your policy? Now. What do you see to that? I think you should be


open`minded. I think solar farms only good thing and obviously you


and I do not agree on global warming either but solar farms are


providing, provided they ard not offensive to the local people are a


good idea. You are not objecting to them on people 's riffs and things?


Now, but when you look at the fact that we are causing power stations


that provide us with a third of our energy over the next 18 months now


out of windmills or solar f`rms will be able to compensate for the energy


shortages. Both of you thank you. But you can keep in touch vha


our website where you'll also find We're back at the same time next


week, when the Lib Dems wind up our Conference Season but


for now it's back to Andrew. My thanks to you both. Andrew, back


to you. Here we are back in Birmingham with


the Conservatives. The Tories thought all they had to do was come


here, have a rally, a jamboree, and off they go to the races, or in


their case the general election Two races later it hasn't quite worked


out like that. Let's look at the state of this conference as it gets


under way. On our panel we are joined by David Davis. You wrote an


article in the Mail on Sunday this morning which was an Exocet at the


heart of David Cameron's modernising strategy. It was designed to act as


a lever. It was designed to cause trouble. No, we are in the running


for the next general election. One of the characteristics of having a


five year fixed term Parliaments is that the last year is about


campaigning. It is important we beat Miliband, he would be a disastrous


Prime Minister. You think the whole modernising strategy was a wrong


turn, that is what the article said. Yes. Has that opened the door to


UKIP? It has left a lot of people disillusioned with politics. What do


you do to get it right? Who was listening to you?


Frankly we need to take a more robust series of policies. How many


more UKIP defections will there be? I do not think there will be any


more. I would be very surprised I know Nigel Farage has a brilliant


sense of timing, but I do not think he has got the resources to do that,


namely, another Tory MP. So it could be another Labour one, maybe? I


think an awful lot will hinge on what happens in Rochester. Because


that is not a slam dunk. Clack and unfortunately looks like it will be


a walkover for them. But Rochester is a different scene. And so, there


could be a kind of Newark situation. When I campaigned in Newark, two


labour families I spoke to said they would vote Tory to keep UKIP out.


How bad was the Labour conference last week? One politician said after


he had a really bad performance that his television performance was


suboptimal. I think that would be a good way of describing Ed


Miliband's speech. The problem for Ed Miliband in memorising speeches


is that we are not auditioning for a new lines Olivier, we're rehearsing


for Prime Minister. He failed the Laurence Olivier test, and therefore


failed the Prime Minister test. I think the real problem for him was


forgetting to mention the deficit. He spoke from the heart about issues


which she really cares about, the NHS, the rupture between wages and


inflation, and forgot the deficit. Those issues are important, but if


you are not addressing things like the deficit, then people are really


not going to be listening to your messages on the areas that matter.


Was it bad? Yes, suboptimal, I am afraid. I hope that this ends the


nonsense of leaders wasting their time learning speeches off by


heart. You could learn a Shakespeare play in the time it takes to learn


70 minutes of a leader's speech I think we should just go back to


sensible reading what you have written. You can then alter it just


beforehand. A lot of things were changing, which is not surprising,


but he did not have time to learn it. It is a silly gimmick, it worked


once or twice, but that is enough for that. Despite some of the


derision of Mr Miliband, the Tories are flat-lining in the sun decks,


they have been there almost since the disastrous budget, the


omnishambles, of 2012, Labour is still several points ahead, nothing


seems to change? And David Cameron is now the leader in trouble. It is


almost as if a week is a long time in politics. I thought the Labour


and friends was Saab -- sub-suboptimal. It was so parochial.


You could've watched the top speeches without knowing that the


borders of Ukraine, and Iraq and Syria were in question. I hope,


because of Friday's discussion in Parliament, that this conference


will raise its sights a bit, and we will have something in Cameron's


speech, possibly that of George Osborne as well, which is a bit more


global. People hoped UKIP had gone away during the summer, people at


this conference, I mean, but it is back with a bang. They are still up


at 15% in the polls, the Tories languishing on 32 - what is going to


change? UKIP won 3% of the last election, I always thought they


would get about 6%. If, by the turn of the year, they are still in


double digits, I think at that point you can begin to wake of his


party's chances of winning. I have had three people say to me so far,


come election day, it will be fine, people will sober up and so on. It


will be all right on the night is not a very good strategy, frankly.


When they get past 5%, I start to bite into our 3-way marginal seats,


with liberals, Labour and Tories, and we have got about 60 of those in


the Midlands and the north, so it really is quite serious. And if I


may steal one of David's lines, when you were interviewing Mark Reckless


this morning, and was not talking about the EU referendum, he was


talking about how he felt he had broken his pledges to the electorate


because the Conservatives he said had failed on immigration and on the


deficit, and those sort of bread-and-butter issues could be


really potent on the doorstep, which means the Tories have got to run the


kind of campaign they ran in Newark, which is a real centre ground,


Reddan but a campaign, in which they would hope to get Liberal Democrat


and Labour voters out to vote tactically against UKIP. I think


today we have seen Cameron been pushed to the right. He has had to


say, yes, I would leave Europe, which he has never said before. It


is a huge stepping stone, a big difference. It takes the Tory party


somewhere else. May be get them a lot of votes. But it has not so far.


But I think it loses a lot of people. The industry organisations,


for example. The prospect of going out of Europe, but is quite a fight


for them. Is it not the lesson that you can out UKIP UKIP? Well, you do


not need to, really. I agree, last week was sub-sub-suboptimal. Hold


on, that is enough subs! I would not be crowing too much! But what I was


going to say, he left out something incredibly important, the deficit.


But how many people outside the M25 are thinking about the deficit? One


problem we face with Miliband is, he is good at politics and bad at


economics, in a way. He comes up with bonkers policies which people


love, price-fixing, things like that. Our problem will be about


relevance on the doorstep. I do not think at the end of the day it will


be about Europe. But was there not a moment of danger for you at the


conference, that one area where Miliband is potentially vulnerable


is not having credible team with business. Who turned up at the


Labour conference, the head of Airbus, saying, we have got to stay


in the European Union? The danger is that Europe allows the Labour Party


to gain credibility with business. There is some truth in that. But we


are in effectively the home straight, the last six months, and


people will be fussing about prices and jobs. Very parochial. They will


not be saying, what does the CBI think about this? It is, what is


happening to me, in my town, in my factory, in my office. That is where


the fight will be. Is it not the truth that if UKIP stays anywhere


near around this level of support, it is impossible for the Tories to


win an overall majority? I would say, if it is this level of support,


it is impossible for the Tories to finish as the biggest party, even in


a hung Parliament. The Tories keep trying to win back UKIP voters with


cold logic - witches it makes Ed Miliband becoming prime minister


more likely. UKIP is basically a vessel phenomenon, coming from the


gut, and David Cameron has never found the emotional pitch in his


rhetoric to meet that. I wonder whether we will see that moron


Wednesday. It is just not him. I hope we do. -- more on Wednesday. I


hope you're right that we do actually engage on emotion. So far


with UKIP, our policy has been to insult them. It does not work. I


know that from my constituency. We have to say to them, there is a


wider Tory family, we understand you are patria, we understand you are


worried about your family, and we do the same. What does it tell us about


the state of the Tories, seven months from the election, the


economy is going well, they are not that far behind Labour, and yet


there is all sorts of leadership speculation? It is extraordinary.


They are doing well, they are in with a shout. It depends. UKIP has


to be kept below 9% of. -- below 9%. I think David Cameron is one of


the few who speaks human, actually talks quite well to people and does


not look like a swivel-eyed loons. Whereas a lot of people behind him


do. You look at Duncan Smith and Eric Pickles, they are all kind of


driven, ideological men, with very right-wing policies. And nice


people! Don't hold back! He is not the Addams family, he is basically


quite human. I think a lot of people do not realise how ideological he is


himself and how well he has led his party in the direction they all want


to go. You go on about him being this metropolitan moderniser, I do


not think that is what he is, really. It may not be visible from


the guardian offices in the metropolis! Everybody where you are,


Polly, is a metropolitan moderniser. And where you are, too. That is the


nature of living in London. The trouble is, when these people get


into Westminster, they are part of Westminster, too. If you could only


win by being an outsider, the moment you get in, you are done for. All


teeing up nicely for Boris Johnson to be the next leader? I do not


think so! The point of my Exocet, or lever, this morning, is that I think


this is winnable. If we are good Tories for the next six months, we


can do this. It is by denying ground to UKIP, not giving in to them, not


buckling. Denying ground. Thank you to our panel. They did all right


today, but the normal. That is your lot for today. I am back tomorrow.


We will have live coverage of George Osborne's speech to the conference.


I am back next week in Glasgow for The Sunday Politics at the Labour


conference. How could you miss that? Remember, if it is Sunday it


is The Sunday Politics. Bye-bye of statutory press regulation in


sponge cake may be a bridge too far. I think I've overdone it


with the pistachios and somehow, the custard's split,


but it's too late! of statutory press regulation in


sponge cake may be a bridge too far.


Download Subtitles