23/10/2016 Sunday Politics East


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There's another candidate in the race to become Ukip's next


leader: Suzanne Evans, the party's former deputy chairman,


This man might have something to say about that.


Paul Nuttal was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years.


So is he now ready to throw his hat in the ring?


The battle for Mosul: the Iraqi army and its allies advane


on the country's second city which has been in the hands of


But what will be the fallout from this key clash?


Here in the East: unlocking the logjam.


Calls to cut congestion on


our roads and railways are growing, but is the Government listening?


one of the richest cities in the world. Should all private landlords


be licensed to help tackle the squalor?


And with me - as always - the best and the brightest political


panel in the business: Toby Young, Polly Toynbee and Tom Newton Dunn -


The last leader was in the job a mere 18 days before she decided


The favourite to succeed her then quit the party after a now infamous


Ukip's biggest donor says the party is at "breaking point".


This morning, the former Deputy Chairman, Suzanne Evans,


announced that she would be running for the leadership.


I've thought long and hard about this leadership bid,


and one of the reasons I've perhaps delayed announcing it is


because I wanted to be absolutely sure that I had the support


And I can confirm that I have more than enough signatures


on the nomination form already to be able to go forward.


Let's not forget that 3,000 people signed a petition in support of me


I know head office was besieged with letters in support.


I would not be doing this if I didn't have the backing


of our members, because our members are the most important


Well, Paul Nuttall was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years


and plenty of people saw him as a leader-in-waiting.


Let's ask the man himself - Paul Nuttall joins me now.


Yes. I've made the decision that I'm going to put my name forward to be


the next leader of Ukip. I have huge support across the country, not only


amongst people at the top of the party in Westminster and with the


MEPs, but also the grassroots. I want to be the unity candidate. Ukip


needs to come together. I'm not going to gild the lily. Ukip is


looking over a political cliff at the moment. It will either step four


step back, and I want to tell us to step backwards. You say it faces an


ex-distension or threat, which means it's possible it has no future at


all. Students of political history know that political parties take a


long time to get going. They can disappear pretty quickly. Ukip is


facing an existential crisis. What happened over the summer has put us


on a... We could be on a spiral that we can't get off. But I believe I am


the man to bring the factions together, to create unity within the


party, and to build on the structure and get us ready for the common


challenges. Why didn't you stand last time? Because I have spent the


last four or five years of my life travelling around the country. I


have done more Ukip meetings than anybody else, spending a lot of time


away from home. With Brexit, I felt that my job and Nigel's job was done


and we could hand over to the next generation. That doesn't seem to be


the case, and maybe it's time for someone who is an old hand. I'm very


experienced and I know the party inside out. Maybe it's time to step


in and bring the party together. You told the Liverpool Echo on the night


of July that you didn't wish to take on Nigel Farage, you didn't want


that to happen to your family and friends. What has changed? The party


is facing an existential crisis, and I want to make sure that Ukip is on


the pitch to keep the ball into the open net we have in politics. We


have a Conservative Party who is moving toward Brexit, but we have to


be there too. Why would you be better than Suzanne Evans? Suzanne


would be an excellent candidate. I thought the 2015 manifesto was the


best out of all the political parties. I would be the best


candidate because of my experience. I am not part of any faction within


the party. Is she? I get on well with everybody, and I believe I


could be the man to bring the party together. Do you get on with Iain


Banks, -- Aaron Banks, who is supporting one of your rivals? Yes,


I get on well with him. He is able to choose whoever he wants to be the


next leader of the party. After November 28, the leadership


election, we all say, the past the past. It becomes Daisy row for the


new leader. We forget all that has before and move on. You won the


referendum. Mrs May is adopting some of your policies, like grammar


schools. What is the point of Ukip these days? Twofold. We don't have


Brexit. Mrs May said she would not invoke Article 50 until the end of


March, and we don't know if that will happen. We need to ensure a


strong Ukip to make sure that Brexit really does mean Brexit. We have a


huge opportunity in working class communities where the Labour Party


no longer represents them. I believe Ukip can become the voice of working


people. If you were the leader, would Ukip be a bigger threat to


Labour in the north or the Tories in the South? You save Labour in the


north, and people often to make that mistake. There's working class


communities right across the country is. There are working-class


communities in Bristol just as in Newcastle. We are second in a


number of northern seats, and southern seats as well, and I


believe the party can move into these communities. It can only do so


if Ukip is on the pitch, and I intend to make sure that's the case.


I don't think we have portrayed a good image over the summer. Is that


called British understatement? A bit. It is dysfunctional. We have to


move on beyond Nigel Farage. We have to build a strong national Executive


Committee. We need to ensure our branches are ready for the fight and


concentrate on local elections. I've got the experience. I'm now throwing


my hat into the ring, and I'm the only person who can keep Ukip in the


game. What role would you give Nigel Farage, if any? I will be the


candidate of compromise. I would see what Nigel wanted to do. Would you


keep in the leader of the freedom and democracy group in the European


Parliament? There would have to be compromise on both sides, and we


would need to talk about it. I don't know what Nigel wants to do. Do you


think his support, his association with Donald Trump, helps Ukip win


female votes in this country? Personally, I would not have gone


out and campaigned or said anything about Donald Trump, but I don't


think Ukip has come out and backed Donald Trump 100%. Personally, I


wouldn't have even spoken about the American election, because I think


the two candidates are quite appalling. Some up for us. If you


win, what would be the hallmark of your Ukip leadership? The first


couple of months would be ensuring that Ukip unifies. Saying no to


factions, bringing people together. Suzanne Evans, Nigel Farage, all of


the MEPs, and ensuring that Ukip can move forward. If we don't unify,


Ukip will not be around for much longer. Thanks for being with us


this morning. We won't have to wait too long


to find out who Ukip's new leader will be -


the winner will be announced Who would be the best leader for


Ukip? I think the difference between the field a few weeks ago and today


is that this field is a lot stronger. Whether it's Paul or


Suzanne, I think... It is hard to say, with Aaron Banks and apparently


Nigel Farage hacking another candidate, Raheem, but I want Ukip


to be a strong force in British politics. I think the fact there is


a stronger field now is good news for Ukip. Is it a Labour's worst


nightmare in the north of England? It is. I think the personality


difference and presentational difference is interesting. Suzanne


Evans is going for the Conservative county vote. There's a lot to be


taken there by Ukip. He would probably be more appealing to the


Labour vote. It is interesting. At the moment, pollsters say that the


Ukip vote splits pretty easily between Labour and Tory. But things


always collapse. When they have made inroads into Tower Hamlets and


Barking, they collapse, because they fight amongst each other so much.


But not always with fists! Does Ukip have a future? And who would best


secure that future? It does for at least two years, until we Brexit. We


have to believe that that will happen. That was an impressive pitch


there from Paul, certainly as the unity candidate, after the car crash


we have seen on TV screens this morning. But it doesn't go beyond


May 20 19. What then? There is no point being called the United


Kingdom Independence party any longer. What will happen after May


2019? If you want to hoover up votes of the back of Brexit, you need to


start looking further ahead than two years. The person who wins that


leadership contest is the person who will sum that up the best. We shall


see. In June 2014, the group which calls


itself the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant captured Iraq's


second city, Mosul. Later that month the group announced


it was establishing a 'caliphate', or an Islamic state,


on the territories it This week 30,000 Iraqi troops, aided


by Iranian-backed Shia fighters, Kurdish Peshmerga and Western air


support, began the assault Then they spot a truck bomb


from so-called Islamic State. They destroy it before


it destroys them. These are the first steps


in the battle for Mosul, the Northern Iraqi city IS has


made its stronghold since 2014. Controlling the city of around


2 million people means that they established governance,


they establish a territorial base. This is what has obsessed everyone,


because with a territorial base you are capable of doing more


than if you are simply an insurgency movement in the fabric


of another society. It's being billed as the biggest


military operation in Iraq since the war in 2003, the biggest


moment in the international effort Here is how the various forces


are approaching the city. Heading to Mosul from the south,


the elite troops of the Iraqi army. Known as the Golden division,


trained and accompanied From the North, a force made up


of Kurds, known as the Peshmerga, Also from the South,


a militia made up of Shia fighters who have been accused


of human rights abuses. British planes have bombed outlying


villages, reportedly guided in by British personnel


on the ground. To the North West, a corridor


has been left for some of the 3000 plus IS fighters,


in theory an escape route which could limit the bloodshed


when fighting starts in the city. We've had 4-5 days of battle


and it's taking place in the outlying villages


and there have been some successes and some failures,


but the momentum is building. And the real question will be


when the attackers get towards the city itself,


how strong are the defences? It will crack but it might crack


within 48 hours or 2-3 weeks. IS has fought back,


on Friday they attack sites in the city of Kirkuk,


including a power station. The United Nations believes hundreds


of thousands of families have been rounded up


as potential human shields. The battle could be bloody,


but what about when it's over? The Shia militias, the Iraqi army,


the Peshmerga guerrillas, some of the Turkish elements,


they all want a share of the action. They are in Mosul, not


for altruistic reasons. They are there because they want


to be part of whatever happens next. The biggest issue is how the Sunni


majority in Mosul reacts to the Shia militias which have


helped to liberate them. ARCHIVE FOOTAGE: When Sir Francis


Humphrey went to Mosul If it all seems like something


from the archive, when the Middle East went up in flames


and was then carved up, it is because that is what is


happening in Iraq right now. National identity has been cut


across by other identities such And that means that putting together


a so-called nation state again Almost certainly there will be


a new form of Kurdish state, almost certainly in northern Iraq


at the end of this crisis, and what is happening in Mosul


is a microcosm of what is happening elsewhere across the Levant


which is that it is melting down. Big questions, questions that


come after the battle. The coalition forces are advancing


but this is just the beginning. I'm joined now by the International


Development Minister Rory Stewart. In a former life he was


the coalition Deputy-Governor of two provinces in Southern Iraq following


the Iraq intervention of 2003. Is there any doubt that at some


stage Mosul will fall to the forces of Iraq and its allies? The first


thing is that war is very uncertain and there are cliches about it being


the graveyard of predictions and we don't want to make confident


predictions but the basic structure is that there are 30,000 Iraqi


forces outside and only a few thousand Daesh fighters inside and I


would say it is overwhelmingly likely that the batter will one


STUDIO: -- the battle the won by the Iraqi forces.


June 2014 was a great success, they took a city of over in people and


they created what they tried to create a million state of 7 million


people, stretching across the Iraqi Syrian border, but since then they


have lost territory quite rapidly. Now they are losing the outskirts of


Mosul, and that is a fundamental blow. Islamic State is all about


territory and holding state, that is what makes it different from


Al-Qaeda. If they lose Mosul that will be a cynic -- significant blow


to their credibility. Hillary Clinton said on Wednesday's


presidential debate that when Iraqi forces with their allies including


the United Kingdom gain control of Mosul they should continue to press


into Syria to take back Raqqa which is the de facto capital of the


caliphate, what is left of it, do we want Iraqi forces to pursue IS into


Syria? Very important question. Delayed in Raqqa needs to come from


people on the Syrian side of the border and that is an important


principle -- the lead. In the end of that enemy, Islamic State, is a


common enemy for odd members of the coalition including the Iraqi


government. -- all members. There is likely to be a humanitarian crisis


especially if it ends up with street to street fighting and IS are


difficult to dislodge what are we doing about that? We are doing very


detailed scenario planning. It is very uncertain what the scenario


will be but much investment has gone into creating a network of camps,


refugees STUDIO: Refugee camps around cash refugee camps, and that


is where money, British money, ?40 million has gone recently into


supporting that, especially in terms of medical support to people. The


United nation's emergency response budget is ?196 million but only one


third funded which sounds like we are putting up a big chunk of what


is already being funded. Why is that? The international committee


can't say they haven't seen this assault coming, and the humanitarian


fallout they may see from it. You are absolutely right. We have seen


it coming and we have been planning since debris and we have put in


about ?167 million into this -- planning since February. There has


been a change in the nature of the appeal, and if there is a lag in the


accounting of it, but the money we need at this stage is in place and


we do have the support structure in place for those refugees. You are


right the United Nations is continuing with its appeal and is


asking for more money at the moment. The converse magazine wrote this


week that preparations for a big exodus of people leaving the city


have been made -- Economist magazine. But confidence is not high


in the preparations, is that a unfair conclusion? If you can


imagine the different scenarios, it could be a few thousand and it could


be a few hundred thousand coming out of the city through a front line


where the war is going on, that is very difficult. You have to screen


those people and disarm them, and keep families together, and


transport them and you have to bring them into the refugee camps. The


people working on this have been working on this for long time, we


have mapped the different routes we have good camp infrastructure in


place and we have people who have worked in south to dam and other


areas who are putting their structures in place -- South Sudan.


It is never easy but I think we have done everything we can in the


preparation for this. What is the British role in what will probably


be an even bigger issue, assuming that Mosul is liberated and retaken,


the humanitarian crisis is dealt with, what role will we play in the


rebuilding of Mosul? That will be crucial to the future of Iraq, the


second-biggest city and it will need to be rebuilt. It will need to be


rebuilt as a community as well as bricks and mortar. And eight Sunni


community that is not harassed by the Shia. -- and eight. You are


right. One of the core drivers is that the Sunni community felt


excluded and they did not feel they have the trust from the Baghdad


government. A lasting solution is stopping some of Islamic State


coming back, that involves making sure the Sunni community have a


stake in their future. That is making sure that the governing


structures are in place. The UK's response is twofold, we have got to


get the humanitarian aid right, that is the short term, people who might


be malnourished, coming out of the front line. The second thing is


working with the Iraqi government to make sure that as we rebuild Mosul


we do so in a way that that population feels a connection to the


Iraqi state. Islamic State is losing territory everywhere in the Levant,


it is almost finished in Iraq, we think. It is down to one district in


Libya, as well, just one small part of the town. I suppose the risk is,


if life is becoming more difficult across these areas, it can start to


look more in Europe and the United Kingdom as a place to continue its


terrorist attacks? That is a real danger. You are right. This is a


group which has proved over the last five years very unpredictable and it


changes for it quickly full stop often it does unexpected things. In


2009 its predecessor had been largely wiped out in Iraq and when


it was under pressure in Syria it went back into Iraq, and in the past


it didn't hold territory but now it holds territory, so you are right.


There is a serious risk that as it gets squeezed in the middle East it


will try to pop up somewhere else and Mac could include Europe and the


United States -- that could. They say that is something they have


focused on full stop we also have a big focus on counterterrorism


security and making sure that we keep the United Kingdom and Europe


say. One final question. -- say. -- safe. Maybe events in Mosul could


add to the migration crisis in Europe, is that a possibility?


Again, you are right, we have seen in Syria it can push migration, the


biggest push the migration was the conflict in Syria, and that's the


reason why we have but so much energy into getting those refugee


camps in place and getting the humanitarian response in place --


put so much energy. People will want to remain in their homes, this is


their country, but we have got to make it possible for them and that


means in the short term looking after their shelter and in the


medium to long-term making sure they have livelihoods, jobs and an


economic development which is why our support in Iraq is in the UK


National interests because it deals with these issues of migration and


terrorists. Thanks for joining us. I'm joined now by the Shadow Defence


Secretary. Does Labour support British


participation in this offensive? We fully support the participation in


this offensive, extremely important move forward and we voted for this


back in 2014. We are asking the government question is, of course, I


was asking the Secretary of State this week about this very offensive


but we are fully behind our RAF pilots out there and be trading that


has been going on to help the forces on the ground. -- the training full


stop that is very clear. I wonder if you'll lead it shares that clarity


and that position. -- is your leader. This is what Jeremy Corbyn


has said. What's been done in Iraq


is done by the Iraqi government, and currently


supported by the British government. I did not support it


when it came up. Well, I'm not sure how successful


it's been, because most of the action now appears to be


moving in to Syria, so I think we He doesn't sound very supportive.


The issue about Mosul, it has been very carefully prepared as Rory


Stewart said and I hope we have learned the lessons from previous


offensives where we haven't learnt sufficiently, and that is going to


be crucial in this context. How the aftermath is going to be dealt with.


Of course will stop that clip was from November last year, and things


have changed. Two weeks ago he told the BBC" I'm not sure it is


working", in reference to air strikes in Iraq, but it is working.


We have got to see what happens in Mosul, it is a very high-risk


operation, but we also have to face the fact that the people there are


living under tyranny at the moment. We have to ask very cirrus question


shall stop he says he's not sure it is working, when Mosul is the last


major target be cleared of Islamic State in Iraq. The combination of


Allied air power has worked, why is he not sure it is working? Because


we have seen difficulties in the past. But this was two weeks ago. It


is essential that the work is done, both planning for the refugees as


Rory Stewart referred to, but also in terms of reconstruction of the


city and its community as you mentioned. These are vital. This was


about the ability to make progress with Allied air power, special


forces in Iraq, on the ground, do you accept so far that has a


strategy that seems to be working to read Iraq of Islamic -- to read Iraq


of Islamic State the question of the car began placement. Ulloa -- we


can't be complacent. The problems they are creating where ever they


are urged that we must continue to pursue them. This is the first time


we have spoken to since you have become the Shadow Defence Secretary.


I hope we will have a longer interview. Will Labour's next


manifesto include a commitment to the renewal of Trident? It will. We


made that commitment in 2007, that is a firm commitment and we will


honour that to our coalition allies and our industrial partners and that


is the vote which was taken democratically and repeatedly has


been reaffirmed by Labour conference and we are a democratic party vote


up you have squared that with Jeremy Corbyn? He's in favour of democracy


and he understands the situation, but we also want to push for the UK


to play a much bigger role on the international stage on multilateral


disarmament talks. You were very clear there, I thank you for that.


Support for Trident will be in the next Labour manifesto. What has


happened to Labour's review of Trident policy? That review has been


taking place over the year, we had a very clear reaffirmation in the


conference boat this year, we are reaffirming our commitment to


Trident -- vote. The review can't change that? There is a process of


review and a fair number of issues related to defence, all parties do


this. Of course. The review can't change the commitment to Trident? We


are not changing the commitment to Trident. Russia is now the main


strategic threat to this country? It is a major strategic threat and we


have got to work with our Nato allies very closely and make sure


that we respond and that we do not let things pass. For example, we


should be calling out Russia for the way it has been a bombing


humanitarian aid and we should be taking them to international court


over this, but we should also be strengthening sanctions, somewhat


imposed over Ukraine. We try to do that, but the Italians wouldn't let


us. The Italians did not want to participate in the European


initiative but that doesn't stop individual countries for the Britain


should step up? Yes, we should look at what is practical to impose.


Thanks for joining us. Mosul is not the only major battle


being waged in the Middle East. The city of Aleppo in northern Syria


has seen some of the heaviest bombardment since Syria's


five-year-long civil war began. This week Russian warships,


in a deliberate show of power, sailed west through the English


channel en route to Syria. Nato says it's Russia's "largest


surface deployment" since the end of the Cold War in what is thought


to be preparation for a final assault


on the besieged city of Aleppo. In the city itself fighting


resumed overnight - following a 3-day ceasefire -


with more air strikes and heavy clashes in the city's


rebel-held eastern districts. Almost 500 people have been


killed and 2,000 injured since Syrian government forces,


backed by Russian air strikes, This week Theresa May condemned


Vladimir Putin's involvement in Syria, accusing Moscow


of being behind "sickening atrocities" in support


of President Assad's regime. But European leaders are divided


on how to respond and, with the United States preoccupied


with domestic politics, President Putin senses this


is his moment to bring the Syrian I'm joined now by the BBC's former


Diplomatic and Moscow Correspondent, Bridget Kendall, who is now Master


of Peterhouse College in Cambridge. Welcome. Good to see you in the BBC


studio again. Let me put up this satellite image of Aleppo here, to


get an idea of the scale. It was the biggest city in Syria. It was the


commercial capital and a huge cultural hub as well. Almost the New


York of Syria, to give you an idea of its significance to the country.


Let me show you now how it's been divided. The rebels are now in


control of the eastern part, about eight miles long and three miles


wide there, they're in purple. They are under great attacks still. Is it


inevitable that that purple part falls to the regime? That is what


President as Saad, the Russians and the Iranians hope. The fierce


bombardments we have seen is part of that. I'm reminded very much in the


Russian tactics of what happened in grudgingly in Chechnya in 2000, when


the Russians said, a warning for all civilians to lead, and then they


went ahead and they basically raised it to the ground. They are talking


about Al Nusrah as being one of the rebel groups. They got rid of all of


the terrorists. They talk about it being an Al-Qaeda offshoot. The


purpose of going in is to get rid of them. You get the civilians out and


then you take it. But this isn't like Chechnya. It is much more


complex. We have seen an attempt to take Aleppo before, and then there


was a rebel counter offensive. It's not so certain. And there are so


many different parties involved. We have seen the alarm in the west of


the extent of the civilian casualties. There have been


rumblings in the west of, shouldn't the United States do something?


Shouldn't they stop the Syrian air force? This Russian aircraft carrier


steaming its way towards the Eastern Mediterranean is a symbolic gesture,


both to its own people, but also to the West, to say, don't get involved


in Aleppo if we go ahead. Don't try and stop us because we could up the


ante. They have not been great visual pictures, because the


aircraft carrier looks a bit clapped out, belching out smoke! If the


rebel controlled area does fall, it would be seen as a great victory for


President as Saad and his Russian allies. What is the aim of Russia


here? What would they then do, if Aleppo Falls? It is part of a plan


that President Putin set out in his UN speech in 2014, before Russia


went into Syria. The aim is to put President Assad back in charge.


President Putin said this weekend that either is Assad in Damascus, or


its Al Nusrah. There is nothing in between. They want to eliminate the


argument for a moderate opposition. They want to make it plain that the


only way to get a stable Syria is to have Assad back in charge. Even sue


argue for a rump steak lit, leaving aside what is happening with IAS.


They have already said they want to have an enlarged military presence


at their bases. And they have a big naval base. It is. It is a chance to


push for this when he sees the West is being distracted and divided.


Europe and America, by elections and so on. Just before the US elections.


The Americans are worried about that, Europeans are being distracted


by Brexit. He can push to his maximum advantage now, before there


is a new US president. If they do take that part of Aleppo, and that


part of northern Syria, does Mr Putin want us to recognise, to


admit, that that is now his sphere of influence? I think the rhetoric


from the Russians is that they want the West to recognise that they are


an equal powerful partner. It's not just the US that runs the writ in


the Middle East. Russia is as important as it is. It is engaging


with Saudi Arabia and has mended fences with Turkey. Syria is the


place from which it can launch its message that it is a big player in


the Middle East. Russia wants the West to understand that this isn't a


country that was dismembered after the end of the Soviet Union and is


now a week. It is back, and it is strong. That is an important


message. Looking at the economy. It is in recession. GDP has been


falling, partly because of the price of oil. It is highly dependent on


hydrocarbons, and is expected to fall again. Its people are falling


again. People don't realise how small the Russian economy is. Its


GDP is about the size of Italy's. It is smaller than the UK economy.


Bigger than it was 15 or 20 years ago. But so is Britain's does it


help to take people's mind of this? A huge shock to the Russian economy


was a drop in the price of oil and a price of gas. A drop in the price of


the ruble as well. This is hurting the people of Russia. On the one


hand, it is the war in Syria, which is very important for Russia to sort


out that part of the world and dispensed terrorists who might be


danger to -- is dangerous to Russia. But he had also has presidential


election is going up. They are supposed to be 2018, but some feel


he will bring them forward to 2017, because the economy is not doing so


well. But you need a good story for the Russian people. Thank you very


much. We say goodbye to viewers


in Scotland who leave us now Hello, welcome to Sunday Politics


East, I'm Stuart White. Later in the programme,


why are we stuck in the slow lane, waiting for trains


are sitting in queues of traffic? This is the fastest


growing region in the So we need infrastructure that


will respond to the number of houses being built and the jobs


being created. With us this week,


the Conservative MP for North East Bedfordshire, Alistair Burt,


a former Foreign Office minister and Health Minister, now


on the backbenches. And Cambridgeshire councillor,


Lisa Duffy, who came second in the recent


Ukip leadership race. Of course, the winner,


just a few weeks ago, So there will be


another election and the closing date for nominations is


the end of this month, with the new We had a tremendous


result last time, 25% of the vote share and a huge


amount of support. what Diane did in terms


of early last in 18 days. But I think this time there will be


other people able I do know that Suzanne Evans


today has declared she is going to stand for the leadership


and I've decided that I will be She's a strong individual,


she created our 2015 fully costed manifesto and I know


that she and I will work closely together and I'm hoping to play


a good part For Ukip, is this joining people


together with one ambition, people apart from that of lots


of different policies. Are you happy with where


she would take Ukip? If we go back and look


at the 2015 manifesto, that's certainly


the direction we want to


continue to go in. We want to make sure


there is more investment for the NHS,


definitely putting in an extra billion pounds for mental health


services, become tough on crime, Suzanne is really talking


the language I want to hear from a But according to Stephen Woolf,


you are in a death Well, Stephen will say


things like that. He's now decided to go and stand


as an independent MEP and what I would say is,


he wasn't elected to stand as himself, he was elected as Ukip


and he should do the honourable thing and stand


down and allow what the residents wanted, which was a Ukip


person to represent them. We have had a few challengers over


the summer, with Nigel are going it was always going to be


difficult for the weather was going We've had a blip, but by the end


of November, we really will have a good leader, a full NEC


and then we will be able to go forward in the New Year


ready to take on those Ukip, Alistair, they've been this


amalgam of people with different Now you're on the backbenches,


you can say what you Yeah, I'm enjoying


the opportunity to do this. I've been 24 years connected


with our party's front bench one way or another,


from Parliamentary private secretary to various opposition jobs


for And I've enjoyed every


single one of them and I've enjoyed the responsibility, the


collective responsibility. But as you get older,


you find that you want to say things on more subjects than just


your ministerial subject, which is And particularly last year


in relation to Syria and Europe I wanted to talk more freely and I've


just reached the stage where I can What are the things for your


constituents that you haven't been able to talk about that you


want to talk about? I think you're always able to talk


about your constituency issues and that's not be a particular


problem or difficulty. We've got some really good strategic


issues coming up in the constituency with new


infrastructure plans and a number of It's the fact that there are some


interesting things on in the world and in politics generally,


that much you love the subject you're given, and I enjoyed health


very much and foreign affairs, you want to be engaged


a little bit more broadly after so long playing


Let's talk about transport and infrastructure.


We just mentioned that the roads minister came to


Cambridge this week to open a road building Academy.


for Greater Anglia started, with the promise of


hundreds of new carriages and the national


infrastructure commission paid us a visit to find out


They have set aside millions of pounds for road and rail schemes.


Alongside on the A241, long queues as vehicles


Milton Keynes was chosen as the site for a new city back in the 1960s


because of its strategic position on the nation's transport


Now, that is coming to capacity now, so if we want to


continue to have that economic success, we have to upgrade.


Over in Cambridge, slow-moving traffic on


the road between one place and another, a major East West Link.


Traffic levels here have increased by 43%


in the last 15 years, but


there's other one carriageway in each direction.


For rail commuters using Ely station, standing room


There is no capacity for extra services and


to the junction here is


This is the fastest-growing region in the


We need infrastructure that well respond to


the number of houses that


are being built and of course the jobs being created here.


Six years ago, I took to the air for the


Sunday Politics to look at the infrastructure


Our region receives the second lowest amount


of public spending in


Since then, just one of projects which we featured has been


fully delivered, the dualling of the A11 in Suffolk.


Of the others, work to improve the A14 in Cambridge has


A third river crossing for Lowestoft is


still some way off, as are the plans for extra track to speed up trains


And a completion date for the East-West Railway link from


Oxford to Great Yarmouth seems as far away as ever.


The way in which we filmed these pressure points has


No need any more rides in helicopters.


Across the region, there are calls for millions of


pounds to be spent on infrastructure investments.


This week, members of the Government's infrastructure


commission visited Northamptonshire and Milton Keynes.


They are drawing up a list of transport needs for the


Chancellor and local councillors and business


leaders pushed home the


I call it the brain belt of Britain, because


quite frankly, we've got to world-class universities at either


end, with Oxford and Cambridge, then in the middle, you've got eight


growth area to die for Milton Keynes, Bedford,


And actually, to connect that up, we need infrastructure that is going to


make those two world-renowned universities and world-renowned


Improving the A47 is now the top priority,


but also very important or dualling schemes on routes like the


Trunk roads around Northampton and a string


of smaller relief schemes are


When it comes to rail, completing the east to west


link is top, along with the upgrade of Ely junction and the line through


The last Chancellor was a regular visitor to the east, but as


his successor understand the needs of the region as well?


I understand that Philip Hammond recently told a


private gathering that he felt the East had


done quite well out of the


Government and that our needs were no greater


than anywhere else in the


Local MPs would I accept that argument.


I would say that if you look back over a long, long


time, the East has not had enough and what we actually now doing is


We've made a compelling case over the past


few years for investment in the east, but it's only a start


This week, the Government opened a new highways


A sign that work on the new link road will soon be getting under way.


Progress is slowly being made, but across the region, still dozens of


pinch points and demands for road and rail improvements. The region


will be closely watching next month's Autumn Statement. Here is


the chief executive of Cambridge local enterprise partnership. Have


you been given a nod as to what you may get? Not yet, no. We are still a


month away from the Autumn Statement and output in a strong case and are


waiting to see comes by. As far as you wish list is concerned, there


are things on their unit you can't do without, aren't there? We know we


are stretched on infrastructure and have road and rail issues. We have


eyed infrastructure issues around broadband need tackling in order to


accelerate growth. So there are a number of things we must see. Why is


that so important? It is about economic growth. We are not the


fastest given the region in the country. Cambridge is a fast-growing


county and we have have lots of growth. What we run the risk of is


seeing it to move away from us in light of the European referendum and


other pressures. We may see a existing businesses leave, let alone


new ones coming in. A lot of the stuff you want is very expensive.


The Government is strapped for cash. We are aware of that. That's a


conversation we are having with the Government currently. We've been in


the shadow of the North and Midlands for the last five years if not


longer. This is about those catching up on delivering growth for the


country, moving forward. We've got hot spots, difficult issues to


tackle and, you're right, it is expensive. The Cambridgeshire area


will be the place where this whole region is regenerated and moves


forward, yes? We would certainly take that view, of course. We have


significant growth in Cambridge and Peterborough. Two of the


fastest-growing cities in the country. You could say is the


heartbeat, but I except college in Bedfordshire and Norwich as well. A


lot of people around us think it would work if you all worked


together, which leads us on to something else. Because many believe


devolution will help solve many of the problems. This week, the


Secretary of State for local Government came to Cambridge and


confirmed plans for an elected mayor for this part of the region will go


ahead in May. The Government is committed to this, just as we were


before. Nothing has changed. We've heard Theresa May talk about a


country that works for everyone and devolution is at the heart of love.


The more we can devolve powers to The more we can devolve powers to


regions that have directly elected mayors, the more control they can


take and make these decisions about skills and transport and


infrastructure and investment and decide for themselves what is best


for them. One agreeable decide Cambridge will go alone and leave


Norfolk and Suffolk out in the cold? A decision has been reached, yes.


When you think that is good for the whole region? From our perspective,


we were with everyone. It is a manageable scale. A feeling with the


business community is having a combination of 23 local authorities


with two local enterprise partnerships was a step too far. We


work awfully closely with Norfolk and Suffolk similarly with SX and


Hertfordshire. It's about working together. There's no way Cambridge


can do its own thing. Equally, there is thick -- thick black lines on


maps do not exist as far as business communities are aware. Why do you


all work together? I think they will. Neil is right and if we were


to bring the whole region together, we are not seeing a one size fits


all. Devolution sounds fantastic, I'm wholeheartedly behind it. But


not behind a directly elected mayor. You bring things to the centre and


they worked there for a while and people say you need


flexibility and local control so they move out


from the centre and a few years later,


people say, we need more central And if you look at health for local


Government or education, The truth is, structures are


important, but much more important relationships between people,


decisions and whatever the structure of the authority, and determination


to get things done. Sometimes, structural


changes can be used as an excuse not to get things done,


because why are you going through the structural changes we don't


expect anything to happen? Firstly, they've got to be


given a chance to work. Devolution is not


a It only works if people


have decided this is the right structure for us


and we can make things happen. What I'm saying is that there


are trends and fads and that is the wrong reason


to bring things together. I was around when there


was a greater Manchester They came, they went,


they were put together differently. then give it a long time to work,


rather than seeking change. But at the moment,


the devolution from the centre of British local


Government is a good thing. But it's no easy answer to the big


challenges of is there enough money to spread around


and how do you make decisions? When we talk to the business


community, they make it For the reason Alistair explains, it


gives certainty and a clear point of We know we can't solve,


for example, the railway line between Peterborough


and Ipswich without Suffolk, Cambridgeshire


and beyond into the Midlands. From our perspective,


a mayor would bring far more clarity on what is most


important is certainty and a clear plan of how we will


make things happen. I mean, we do just


want to work together. I'm very concerned that a directly


elected mayor becomes very political and they can,


in with an agenda or pressure can be Are you say most people in public


life are political and have an But in terms of the


infrastructure and investment, I think we are all


agreed that we do need that. We do want the growth, broadband


especially if we want to grow, certainly in our rural


communities, absolutely vital. Devolution absolutely,


but I'm very concerned at the directly elected mayor won't


quite work. Neil, you are leaving


as now, thank you very The new Education Secretary Justine


Greening was in Norwich this week, which she has named


as an opportunity area. She was an Norwich City College


where she answered questions The city will be one of ten pilots


to receive ?6 million to raise educational standards


and increase social mobility. She told us about a plan to improve


I think, in the end, if we are really going


to have a country where it doesn't matter where you start,


you can make the most of your talents and your potential, then


it's going to probably take three things.


One, making sure young people of the knowledge and skills


needed, the second is them having fantastic experiences as they grow


up, whether it is the national citizen's service, and we really


want to make sure young people in Norwich get access to that,


We do have investment, ?60 million of


investment will go into opportunity areas in the first ten that we're


And I passionately believe that young people growing up


here in Norwich have every much the same


talent and potential as


And it's vital we leave no stone unturned to


find out what it will take to be able to have


them aim high and go a


I'd like to be able to see some real progress


I hope that in terms of education, but also


in terms of aspiration and


attitudes, we will be able to really start changing them sooner rather


Lisa, presumably everybody in Ukip thinks that's a wonderful thing?


And I hope it doesn't just stop at Norwich.


I think social mobility is a hugely important


All our children deserve the best and the best education and the


Sometimes it is not just about being in a school,


but opportunities in things like UTC,


where children can go on and


have really good education from the age


specialising in certain areas as outside the curriculum.


So I welcome this, but I do hope it doesn't just


Alistair, is social mobility not as great as we think?


Back in the 60s and 70s, everybody thought that everybody


There are all sorts of theories and research worked in to


this, the expansion of the post-war economy, creating many new


opportunities for people and so the ability of people to rise


and take the new opportunities, people who


hadn't expected to do so in prewar years because of where they were


born I what other opportunities were, that expanded.


We take for granted the advances that were made.


But we are very determined and Justine put


We have one and a quarter more children now in a


good and outstanding schools, that's a good baseline.


In terms of making sure it is spread round, as Lisa


mentioned, and as Justine said, this is ?10 million...


That doesn't seem a lot, though, does it?


No, but if you add up to the other investment is


going in areas and specific investment such as that will help


and I thought she was very clear on making...


The Labour Party safely take away what you're taking away


and will be 6 million back and you'll be worse off.


Until they can come up with a coherent economic


We are rationally delivering the sort of things they used to talk


And that is why the importance of good


schools for everyone is the heart of what we want to do.


And the troubled family scheme, is that reaching the people


There's been a difficult report this week, which is


only after a year of the troubled families work.


It was a piece in The Times, saying this is very


premature, there's lots of good work going on.


You need to give a scheme like that time.


It was right to concentrate on the families who had


the greatest difficulties in the background.


Anyone who has worked in


these areas and seen some of this work done know that you can't leave


people alone, you have to be working with them


great deal of individual effort to change families


and give youngsters, who may see very little home to give


them hope and opportunity, they need a lot of care and attention.


You agree with all of this, don't you?


The Ukip and Tories actually holding hands?


Yeah, I think we don't have


I think what we're all here for is doing


what is right for our residents and the families in our communities.


support anything that will do that and help certainly the most


vulnerable in our communities and as a counsellor,


And if that comes from the Tories, Ukip or Labour, let us make it


happen at work for the residents rather than just be a tick box for


You can't force people to be socially mobile,


No, but you can give people opportunity.


And once the opportunities are there, you can


encourage them and they see how well others do, behaviour breeds


behaviour and without opportunity, people will stifle and we won't have


a home-grown talent pool and that is so, so important.


There are outstanding examples already.


Patrick McLaughlin, Sadiq Khan, from his background to the Mayor of


Wherever you look, we are a great meritocracy.


Now our political round-up of the week in 60 seconds.


Flying the flag for our energy industry.


Leaders of energy firms met with politicians at


Westminster to lobby for development here.


There are opportunities, but


at the same time we must recognise that with lower oil and gas prices,


there are real challenges in the industry as well.


Three Premiership footballers are backing a


The idea is to have social and affordable housing


built around the state of


And there's ?1 million heading for a parish


A horde of old munitions and toxic waste has been found in a playing


The council has been left to clean it up,


although the land used to belong to the Ministry of


Because of the bombs that have been found, there's a massive


increased risk and we've been given a potential bill of another ?840,000


And the MP for Wellingborough was uncharacteristically lost for words


when Theresa May gave his wife some birthday advice.


I must say to my honourable friend, I'm very happy to


wish him a very happy birthday today.


I hope his wife is going to treat the


So, Brexit, airports, Calais and the chances


With what Rory Stewart was saying there, it is clear that Islamic


State is losing territory in Iraq now, and could come under pressure


in Syria as well. It used to control a whole swathe of the coast of


Libya, and is now down to a small area of Sirte in Libya. But


curiously, it could make them more dangerous here if they are being


driven out of the Maghreb and the Levant, they could be more dangerous


here. Discuss. That was a very interesting admission from a


government minister, of all people, and a well-informed one. Chasing


Isis around the Middle East is about... Like chasing Al-Qaeda


around Afghanistan and Pakistan. You smash them somewhere, and they pop


up somewhere else. He is right to warn that these guys will go


somewhere. And it may well be, in Sirte, for example, across the magic


oration -- across the Mediterranean into Italy. A lot of the foreign


fighters in Mosul have already gone, we heard, which raises the question,


to where? I think it is quite right for government ministers to warn


that it might have repercussions here. We have been involved in this,


with full public consent, as far as we can tell. If it doesn't happen,


if there are horrors and outrages here and in the rest of Europe,


that's fine. If it does happen, at least the government is prepared. We


knew surprised about how categorical Nia Griffith was? She was


categorical about support for the Allied action in Iraq, and


categorical about Russia. So much so that perhaps written should take


tougher sanctions on its own, even if it can't get the Europeans to


fall in line. I found that interesting. I was surprised by


that. Tom may be right that Rory said more than perhaps he was


intending, but I thought that some of what she said sounded politically


imprudent in the current context of the Labour Party. I'm not sure she


cleared those lines with the Labour office. I'm not sure she and Jeremy


are in the same place about it. I'm not sure there is that much


leadership. People at the moment get out there and say what they think


it's right for the party. She sounded dead right to me. Whether it


is ill-advised or not, people should answer... I want to move on, because


Brexit never goes away. This week we saw Hilary Benn, former Shadow


Foreign Secretary. He is going to be the chair of the select committee in


the Commons which will monitor the Department for Brexit. All sorts of


people will be coming to give testimony and so one. Let's hear


what he told Andrew Marr. I think it will be very important


for the government to indicate that if it is not possible within the two


years provided for by Article 50 to negotiate both our withdrawal


agreement and a new trading relationship, market access,


including for services, 80% of our economy, million jobs,


in financial services, that it should tell the House


of Commons that it will seek a transitional arrangement


with the European Union. If the deal is not done at the end


of the two-year Article 50 process, would the government go for an


interim agreement, or would it fall back on WTO, World Trade


Organisation, Rawls? My understanding is the article 15


negotiation doesn't specifically include what Britain's future


trading relationship with the EU would be. It is perfectly possible


that Article 50 could be triggered, and after two years we don't have a


trade deal, but the trade deal negotiations are ongoing when we are


outside the EU. But the trade deal negotiations are the most important


thing. If Article 50 doesn't cover it, what is it about? Absolutely


essential. The trade deal with Canada has taken nine years, and now


it looks like it is fading, because of the Walloons. Just one small part


of the country. If you cannot do a free-trade deal with Canada, a


progressive, social Democratic Canada, who can the EU do a trade


deal with? You would think it would be easy with us, because we have all


of the level playing field agreements in place. You would hope


it would be easier, but it may not be, because in the end, it will


hinge on the single market and if we are in or out. If we are in, can we


have a small break on immigration? It looks like not. What is


interesting about the opinion polls is, in the last two opinion polls


there was a significant change in public opinion, where people are now


saying they think that actually trade, the economy, the single


market is more important than immigration. If it is really true,


as the observer is reporting today, that banks are on the move, and in a


year's time there could be a significant collapse in the income


we get from finance, the income that the Treasury gets, then public


opinion might change. They may say, we don't want more immigration, but


this isn't a price worth paying. Everything tends to be seen through


the Brexit lens at the moment. Things are not always as they seem.


The Canadian- EU free trade agreement was about increasing free


trade between the EU and Canada, and therefore subject to the


ratification of all members. Any deal we do will not give us the same


access we have at the moment. The question is, how much will it be


diminished? It may not be subject to the same ratification process.


Absolutely right. Another unbelievably technical point that we


still don't know is, if we can get this free-trade deal with the EU at


the same time as our Brexit talks and deal, the divorce deal as well


as the remarriage deal, then one gets signed off by QM V. The trade


deal may still need all 28, all 27, including the people from the


Walloons. And the MEPs. The majority of parliament. This is exactly why


Theresa May would like the transitional deal to push this one


deeper. I was surprised to hear Hilary Benn pushing this line this


morning. The remainers have been all over the place. They wanted a vote


after Article 50 had been triggered about the deal. Then they wanted a


vote before Article 50. Now they are talking about a vote before article


Article 50 is triggered about a trade deal. They need to make up


their minds about what it is they are pushing for, and what their best


hope of obstructing Brexit is, and stick with it. Something else we see


through the Brexit lens, which isn't always helpful, is Calais. The


French bulldozers will move in tomorrow. We will see some pretty


disturbing scenes on the TV. We will see some horrible scenes. The


government has handled this very badly. Having passed an amendment in


April saying we would take something like 3000 children, a lot of those


children have disappeared. Save the Children, one of the charities


there, are very worried that people traffickers have been in there, and


a lot of those children have vanished. We haven't sent social


workers in. No preparations have been made what ever. You are raising


an interesting point. We don't know how many we are meant to be taking.


The huge argument has arisen over what the age is of some of the ones


coming in. Is this another problem for the Home Office? To some extent.


Didn't Theresa May 's too well to survive six weeks of this? Amber


Rudd has been there for three months. It is clear that the Home


Office didn't prepare for this. They didn't prepare for the age


verification or when it will go. It needs to be an perfect. We don't


know how many we will take, because the Home Office will not say. I want


to talk about airport capacity, but I won't, because I don't think we


have anything to say about it until the statement on Tuesday from


Transport Minister Grayling. When you look at the polls and see the


decision on airport runway expansion being kicked into the long grass for


a year, are we heading for an early election next year or not? I think


Theresa May will do everything she can to avoid it. If there is an


election before 2020, it is bound to be about Europe, and that is a much


harder case for her to win than just a question of who is the best Prime


Minister. She will have a tough time, because it will be a general


election about in or out of the single market. Half of her party


will peel away. How do she conduct a general election when the likes of


Anna Soubry will not stand on the same platform? It will be difficult.


But she may reach such a stalemate that she just calls one. No general


election next year because it will split the Tory party. There will be


won in 2019 when she cannot get Brexit through the House of Commons.


You really can have too much of a good thing. I just want to show a


little clip of the former Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, from Strictly


last night. Let's just watch this. There he is.


Where is the hand? That is the worrying bit! We will no longer be


saying that Ed Balls is a safe pair of hands! Can we agree on that?


Remarkable that he was once the man most feared by David Cameron! Labour


leader 2021. He has hit popular culture in the way that many few


politicians do. Charm, gusto, bravery, no worries about being


embarrassed. All the things that you don't like about being a politician.


We have run out of time. You can get it on social media.


Jo Coburn will be back with the Daily Politics tomorrow


And I'll be back here next Sunday at the same time.


Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.


Everyone's living these amazing lives,


You're like a... Different person?


Delve deeper. Ordinary Lives continues...


They have something on me that I can actually remember.


They have something on me that I can actually remember.


The final chapter between Gibson and Spector.


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