Browse content similar to 20/11/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning folks - welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
Theresa May says she'll deliver on Brexit but does that mean leaving | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
the EU's Single Market and the Customs Union? | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
Tory MPs campaign for a commitment from the Prime | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
The Chancellor pledges just over a billion pounds worth of spending | :00:51. | :01:02. | |
on Britain's roads but is that it or will there be | :01:03. | :01:09. | |
Here in the East... 18 days in the job. | :01:10. | :01:18. | |
The devolution dream for Norfolk and Suffolk is all over. | :01:19. | :01:20. | |
In a special programme, we look at what's gone wrong | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
in London: Is the battle for Richmond Park based on the skies? Or | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
is it about a bigger conflict in Europe? | :01:29. | :01:37. | |
And with me - as always - and, no, these three aren't doing | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
the Mannequin challenge - it's our dynamic, demonstrative | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
dazzling political panel - Helen Lewis, Isabel Oakeshott | :01:46. | :01:47. | |
and Tom Newton Dunn they'll also be tweeting throughout the programme. | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
First this morning - Theresa May has said | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
"Brexit means Brexit" - but can the Prime Minister - | :01:57. | :01:58. | |
who was on the Remain side of argument during the referendum | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
Well, Leave-supporting Tory MPs are re-launching | :02:02. | :02:09. | |
the "European Research Group" this morning to keep Mrs May's feet | :02:10. | :02:16. | |
Are you worried that you cannot trust Theresa May until payment to | :02:17. | :02:26. | |
deliver full Brexit was Magellan like I totally trust Theresa May, | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
100% behind her. She has displayed a massive amount of commitment to | :02:33. | :02:35. | |
making a success of Brexit for the country. | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
We don't know that yet, because nothing has happened. Why, then | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
have you formed a pressure group? We were fed up with the negativity | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
coming out around Brexit. I feel positive about the opportunities we | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
face, and we are a group to provide suggestions. Who do you have in mind | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
when you talk about negativity the Chancellor? No, from the Lib Dems, | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
for example, from Labour MPs. This is a pressure group for leaving | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
membership of the single market and customs union, correct? That is what | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
we are proposing. It has a purpose other than just to combat | :03:17. | :03:18. | |
negativity. When it comes to membership of the single market and | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
the customs union, can you tell us what Government policy is towards | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
both or either? Rightly, the Government hasn't made the position | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
clear, and I think that is the right approach, because we don't want to | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
review our negotiating hand. What we're saying... I'm not asking what | :03:37. | :03:43. | |
you are saying. Can you tell us what Government policy is towards | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
membership of these institutions? The Government wants to make sure | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
British businesses have the right to trade with EU partners, to forge new | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
trade deals with the rest of the world. We hope to Reza may speak at | :03:56. | :04:02. | |
Mansion house this week. -- we had Theresa May speak at Mansion house | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
this week. She has been clear, saying it was not a binary choice. | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
And she's right. Let's run that tape, because I want to pick up on | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
what she did say. This is what she had to say about the customs union | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
at Prime Minister's Question Time. On the whole question of the customs | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
union, trading relationships that we have with the European Union and | :04:26. | :04:27. | |
other parts of the world once we have left the European Union, we are | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
preparing carefully for the formal negotiations. We are preparing | :04:34. | :04:42. | |
carefully for the formal negotiations. We want to ensure we | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
have the best possible trading deal with the EU once we have left. Do | :04:46. | :04:52. | |
you know what she means when she says being in the customs union is | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
not a binary choice? I think she's right when she says that. At the | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
moment, and you know this, as long as we are in the customs union, we | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
cannot set our own tariffs or rules, cannot have a free trade agreement | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
with the US or China. We need to leave a customs union to do that. | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
Binary means either you are in or you are out, self which is it? We | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
still want to trade with the EU and I think we can have a free trade | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
agreement with the EU. That is a separate matter, and it has to do | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
with the single market. What about the customs union? We need to leave | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
the customs union. We do it and properly. That is how to get the | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
most out of this opportunity. Summit is a binary choice? The Prime | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
Minister is right when she says it's not a binary choice. Both can't be | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
right. We can leave the customs union, get their benefits, and have | :05:47. | :05:54. | |
a free trade agreement with zero tariffs with the EU. So it is a | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
binary choice an either be stale really. Yellow like I am saying the | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
Prime Minister is right when she says it is not a binary choice. -- I | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
am saying the Prime Minister is right. We need clarity. Youth had | :06:09. | :06:16. | |
said -- you have said it is a binary choice. We need to leave the | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
constraints of the customs union. It pushes up prices. The EU is not | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
securing the right trade deals, and if we want to make the most of it, | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
we need to get out there and get some deals going. Do you accept that | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
if we remain in the customs union, we cannot do our own free-trade | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
deals? Yellow right 100%. That is why we have to leave. -- 100%. Do | :06:40. | :06:54. | |
you accept that if we leave the customs union but stay with | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
substantial access, I don't say membership, but substantial access | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
to the single market, that goods going from this country to the | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
single market because we're no longer in the union will be subject | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
to complicated rules of origin regulations, which could cost | :07:12. | :07:19. | |
business ?13 billion a year? I would like to see a free-trade agreement | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
between the UK and the EU. Look at the Canadian deal. I give you that, | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
but if we're not in the customs union, things that we bring in on | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
our own tariffs once we've left we can't just export again willy-nilly | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
to the EU. They will demand to see rules of origin. Norway has to do | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
that at the moment and it is highly complicated expensive. I think if we | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
agree a particular arrangement as part of this agreement with the EU, | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
we can reach an agreement on that which sets a lower standard, which | :07:50. | :07:56. | |
sets a different level of tariffs, which protects some of our | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
industries. Let's suppose we have pretty much free trade with the EU | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
but we are out of the customs union, and let's suppose that the European | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
Union has a 20% tariff on Japanese whisky and we decide to have a % | :08:10. | :08:18. | |
tariff - what then happens to the whisky that comes into Britain and | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
goes on to the EU? The EU will not let that in. That will be part of | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
the negotiation. I think there is a huge benefit for external operators. | :08:28. | :08:34. | |
Every bottle of Japanese whisky they will have to work out the rules | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
of origin. There have been studies that show there is a potential for | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
50% increase in global product if we leave. We're losing the benefits of | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
free trade. I understand, I am asking for your particular view | :08:50. | :08:50. | |
Thank you for that. Is it not surprising Mr Hannan could | :08:51. | :08:59. | |
not bring himself to say we would leave the customs union? It is | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
messy. The reason there is this new group of Tory MPs signing up to a | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
campaign to make sure we get a genuine Brexit is because there is | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
this vacuum. It is being filled with all sorts of briefing from the other | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
side. There is a real risk in the minds of Brexit supporting MPs that | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
the remaining side are going to try to hijack the process, not only | :09:25. | :09:26. | |
through the Supreme Court action, which I think most Brexit MPs seem | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
to accept the appeal will fail, but further down the line, through | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
amendments to the great repeal bill. This is a pressure group to try to | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
hold the Prime Minister to account. There is plenty of pressure on the | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
Prime Minister effectively to stay in the single market and the customs | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
union, and if you do both of these things, de facto, you have stayed in | :09:51. | :09:57. | |
the EU. She is in a difficult position because there is no good | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
faith assumption about what Theresa May wants because she was a | :10:01. | :10:07. | |
Remainer. There is all this talk about a transitional arrangement, | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
but she can't sell that as someone who voted to remain. The way Isabel | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
has characterised it is interesting. There is a betrayal narrative. | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
Everyone is looking to say that she has betrayed the true Brexit. Since | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
the Government cannot give a clear indication of what it once in terms | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
of the customs union, which sets external tariffs, or the single | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
market, which is the free movement of people, capital, goods and | :10:35. | :10:37. | |
services, others are filling this vacuum. Right. The reasons they | :10:38. | :10:45. | |
can't do this are, first, they don't know if they can get it or not. We | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
saw this with the renegotiation the last Prime Minister. What are they | :10:49. | :10:55. | |
hoping to get? The world on a stick, to get cake and eat it. You go into | :10:56. | :11:05. | |
a negotiation saying, let's see what we can get in total. Are they going | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
to ask the membership of the single market? Yellow I think they will ask | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
for a free trade agreement involving everything. You can demand what you | :11:14. | :11:26. | |
want. The question is, do they stand a cat's chance in hell of getting | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
it? They don't know. Welcome back. We will be back, believe me. It is | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
150 day since we found out the UK had voted to leave the EU, but as we | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
have heard, remain and leave campaigners continue to battle about | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
what type of relationship we should have with the EU after exit. | :11:47. | :11:54. | |
Leave campaigners say that leaving the EU | :11:55. | :11:56. | |
also means quitting the | :11:57. | :11:57. | |
Single Market, the internal European trading bloc that includes free | :11:58. | :11:59. | |
movement of goods, services, capital and people. | :12:00. | :12:01. | |
They point to evidence that leading Leave supporting | :12:02. | :12:03. | |
politicians ruled out staying in the Single Market during | :12:04. | :12:05. | |
Andrea Leadsom, for example, said it would almost | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
certainly be the case that the UK would come out of the Single Market. | :12:09. | :12:17. | |
When asked for a yes or no on whether the UK should stay | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
"No, we should be outside the Single Market." | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
And Boris Johnson agreed with his erstwhile ally, saying, "Michael | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
Gove was absolutely right to say the UK | :12:29. | :12:29. | |
They've released a video of clips of Leave campaigners speaking before | :12:30. | :12:41. | |
the referendum apparently saying that the UK should stay in the | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
Nigel Farage, for example, once said that on leaving | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
the EU we'll find ourselves part of the European economic area | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
Owen Paterson, the former Environment Secretary, | :12:51. | :12:52. | |
once made the startling statement that only a madman would actually | :12:53. | :12:59. | |
And Matthew Elliott, the Vote Leave chief, said | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
that the Norwegian option would be initially attractive for some | :13:05. | :13:06. | |
But do these quotes create an accurate picture of what | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
To cast some light on where these quotes came from we're | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
joined by James McGrory, director of Open Britain | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
Welcome to the Sunday Politics. . Your video has statements from leave | :13:21. | :13:34. | |
campaigners hinting they want to stay in the single market. How many | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
were made during the referendum campaign? I don't know. Not one was | :13:38. | :13:45. | |
made during the referendum campaign. Indeed, only two of the 12 | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
statements were recorded after Royal assent had been given to the | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
referendum. Only one was made this year before the referendum. | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
Throughout the campaign am a leave campaigners lauded the Norwegian | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
model. Norway are in the single market but not in the EU. They went | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
out of their way not to be pinned down on a specific trading | :14:08. | :14:09. | |
arrangement they want to see in the future with Europe, when the | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
Treasury model the different models it was the EEA or a free-trade | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
agreement. I understand. Does it not undermine your case that none of the | :14:20. | :14:22. | |
12 statements on your video were made during the campaign itself | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
when people were giving really serious thought to such matters The | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
Leave campaign weren't giving serious thought to such matters | :14:33. | :14:35. | |
They did not set out the future trading model they wanted to see. | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
But you cannot produce a single video with somebody saying we should | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
stay in the single market during the campaign. Daniel Hanna had talked | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
about the Norwegian model as a future option. One comment from | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
Nigel Farage dates back to 2009 when we didn't even know if we would | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
have a referendum or not. Does it not stretch credibility to go back | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
to the time when Gordon Brown was Prime Minister? The overall point | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
stands. It is not supposed to be an exhaustive list of the options. | :15:07. | :15:13. | |
Daniel Hannan, described as the intellectual godfather of the Leave | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
movement is saying that no one is talking about threatening our place | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
in the signal market. I think it's legitimate to point out the Leave | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
campaign never came forward with a credible argument. We have | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
highlighted some of the quotes you picked out from leave campaigners | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
over time. Do you think you have fully encapsulated their arguments | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
accurately? I don't think in a 2nd video you can talk about the full | :15:39. | :15:44. | |
thing. -- a 90-2nd video. Some of them want to seek a free-trade | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
agreement, some to default on to World Trade Organisation tariffs. | :15:49. | :15:56. | |
There is a range of opinion in the Leave campaign. Let's listen to the | :15:57. | :15:58. | |
clip you used on Owen Paterson first. | :15:59. | :16:00. | |
Only a madman would actually leave the market. | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
Only a madman would actually leave the market. | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
It's not the EU which is | :16:12. | :16:13. | |
a political organisation delivering the prosperity and buying our goods. | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
It's the market, it's the members of the market and we'll carry on | :16:17. | :16:19. | |
I mean, are we really suggesting that the | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
economy in the world is not going to come to come | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
to a satisfactory trading arrangement with the EU? | :16:26. | :16:27. | |
Are we going to be like Sudan and North | :16:28. | :16:29. | |
It is ludicrous this idea that we are going to leap off a | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
What he said when he said only a madman would leave Europe, was that | :16:34. | :16:47. | |
we would continue to trade, we would continue to have access. Any country | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
in the world can have access. What the Leave campaign suggested is our | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
trade would continue uninterrupted, they are still at it today, David | :16:55. | :16:57. | |
Davis used the phrase, uninterrupted, from the dispatch box | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
recently. You misrepresented him by saying only a madman would leave the | :17:03. | :17:05. | |
Single Market and stopped it there, because he goes onto say that of | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
course we want Leave in the sense of continuing to have access. I don't | :17:11. | :17:11. | |
think he was about axis, he is talking | :17:12. | :17:30. | |
about membership. He doesn't use the word membership at all. He talks | :17:31. | :17:32. | |
about we are going to carry on trading with them, we will not leap | :17:33. | :17:35. | |
off, we will carry on trading. Anybody can trade with the EU, it's | :17:36. | :17:38. | |
the terms on which you trade that is important and leave campaigners and | :17:39. | :17:40. | |
Patterson is an example of this saying we can trade as we do now, | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
the government saying we can trade without bureaucratic impediments and | :17:44. | :17:45. | |
tariff free. The viewers will make up their mind. Let's listen to the | :17:46. | :17:47. | |
views of Matthew Elliott, the Chief Executive of Vote Leave. | :17:48. | :17:49. | |
When it comes to the Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that | :17:50. | :17:52. | |
it might be initially attractive for some business people. | :17:53. | :17:54. | |
So you then cut him off there but this is what he went on to say in | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
the same clip, let's listen to that. When it comes to the Norwegian | :17:59. | :18:01. | |
option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initially attractive | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
for some business people. But then again for voters | :18:06. | :18:07. | |
who are increasingly concerned about migration in the EU, | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
they will be very concerned that it allows free movement | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
of people to continue. Again, you have misrepresented him. | :18:14. | :18:25. | |
He said the Norwegian model has attractions but there are real | :18:26. | :18:27. | |
problems if it involves free movement of people, which it does. | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
But you cut that bit out. I challenge anyone to represent them | :18:33. | :18:35. | |
accurately because they took such a range of opinions. I don't know what | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
we are supposed to do. You are misrepresenting them. He is saying | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
the Norwegian option is attractive to business, I understand why. It | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
might not be attractive for voters. But then he said if it allowed free | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
movement of people it could be an issue. You took that out. You are | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
saying this is a definitive position. I'm suggesting you are | :18:59. | :19:01. | |
distorting it. This is what you had Mr Farage say. | :19:02. | :19:03. | |
On D+1 we'll find ourselves part of the European economic area | :19:04. | :19:06. | |
This is what he then went on to say in that same clip that you didn t | :19:07. | :19:14. | |
run. There is absolutely | :19:15. | :19:14. | |
nothing to fear in terms of trade from leaving | :19:15. | :19:16. | |
the on D+1 we'll find ourselves part | :19:17. | :19:18. | |
of the European Economic Area and we should use our | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
membership of the EEA as a holding position from which | :19:23. | :19:31. | |
we can negotiate as the European Union's biggest export | :19:32. | :19:34. | |
market in the world, as good a deal, my goodness me, | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
if Switzerland can have one we So there again, he says not that we | :19:38. | :19:47. | |
should stay in the Single Market as a member, but that we stay in the EA | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
as a transition until we negotiate something. -- EEA. This whole clip | :19:53. | :20:02. | |
is online, how would you get away with this distortion? It is not a | :20:03. | :20:05. | |
distortion, the whole point is to point out they do not have a | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
definitive position, he is arguing for membership of the Single Market, | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
for a transitional period. For the transition. How long does that go | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
on, what does he want to then achieve? Not very quickly but he | :20:18. | :20:20. | |
does not say we should stay members of the Single Market and you didn't | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
let people see what he went on to say, you gave the impression he | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
wanted to stay in the one it. It would not be a video then, it would | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
be a seven-week long lecture. They took so many positions, and the idea | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
now that they were clear with people that we should definitely leave the | :20:36. | :20:38. | |
Single Market I think is fictitious. You are trying to make out they all | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
had one position which was to remain members of the one it. You see the | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
full clips that is not what they are saying. We are trying to point out | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
there is no mandate to leave the Single Market. The idea the Leave | :20:52. | :20:54. | |
campaign spoke with unanimity and clarity of purpose and throughout | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
the whole campaign said we will definitely leave the Single Market | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
is not true. That is the whole point of the media. We showed in the | :21:03. | :21:05. | |
montage in the video just before we came on, we said that then Prime | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
Minister, the then Chancellor, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, being | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
categorical that if you vote to leave the EU, you vote to leave | :21:14. | :21:16. | |
membership of the Single Market What bit of that didn't you | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
understand? Under duress they occasionally said they wanted to | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
leave. Some of them wanted to leave the Single Market. All of the other | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
promises they made, whether ?35 million for the NHS, whether a VAT | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
cut on fuel, points-based system. You do not have a single quote of | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
any of these members saying they want to be a member. Daniel Hannan | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
has said consistently that Norway are a part of the Single Market You | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
spend the referendum campaign criticising for Rim misrepresenting | :21:47. | :21:48. | |
and misrepresenting and lying and many thought they did. Having seen | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
this many will conclude that you are the biggest liars. I think it is | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
perfectly reasonable to point out that the Leave campaign did not have | :21:56. | :21:58. | |
a clear position on our future trading relationship with Europe. | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
That is all this video does. It doesn't say we definitely have to | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
stay in the Single Market, it just says they do have a mandate to drag | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
us out of our biggest trading partner. | :22:10. | :22:12. | |
Now people have seen the full quotes in context our viewers will make up | :22:13. | :22:13. | |
their mind. Thank you. Now - voting closes next week | :22:14. | :22:15. | |
in the the Ukip leadership contest. The second Ukip leadership contest | :22:16. | :22:18. | |
this year after the party's first female leader - Diane James - | :22:19. | :22:21. | |
stood down from the role Since then the party's lurched from | :22:22. | :22:24. | |
farce to fiasco. It's a world gripped by uncertainty, | :22:25. | :22:27. | |
split into factions. Yes, 2, because they're | :22:28. | :22:42. | |
having their second Watch as the alpha male, | :22:43. | :22:52. | |
the Ukip leader at Nigel Watch as the alpha male, | :22:53. | :23:00. | |
the Ukip leader Nigel Farage, hands power to the new alpha | :23:01. | :23:02. | |
female Diane James. The European Parliament | :23:03. | :23:04. | |
in Strasbourg, October. Another leading light and possible | :23:05. | :23:19. | |
future leader, the MEP Steven Wolfe, | :23:20. | :23:21. | |
has been laid low after an alleged tussle with a colleague | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
during a meeting. A few days later he is | :23:25. | :23:26. | |
out of hospital and I will be withdrawing my | :23:27. | :23:29. | |
application to become I'm actually withdrawing | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
myself from Ukip. You're resigning from the party | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
I'm resigning with immediate effect. And this week a leaked document | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
suggested the party improperly spent EU funds on political | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
campaigning in the UK. Another headache for whoever takes | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
over the leadership of the pack One contender is Suzanne Evans, | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
a former Tory councillor and was briefly suspended for | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
disloyalty. Also standing, Paul Nuttall, | :24:01. | :24:09. | |
an MEP from Liverpool who has been by Farage's side | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
as his deputy for six years. There's another big beast | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
in the Ukip leadership contest, and I'm told | :24:18. | :24:20. | |
that today he can be spotted He's John Rees-Evans, | :24:21. | :24:22. | |
a businessman and adventurer who is offering members the chance | :24:23. | :24:28. | |
to propose policies via a website We've got really dedicated | :24:29. | :24:30. | |
passionate supporters who feel like they're not really | :24:31. | :24:44. | |
being listened to and are not even Typically what happens | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
is they just basically sit there until six months before | :24:48. | :24:50. | |
a General Election when they are contacted and asked to go out | :24:51. | :24:53. | |
and leaflet and canvas. Even at branch level people feel | :24:54. | :24:55. | |
there is not an adequate flow of communication | :24:56. | :24:58. | |
up-and-down the party. Are you not going to take part in | :24:59. | :25:00. | |
any hustings? He left a hustings saying | :25:01. | :25:09. | |
the contest was an establishment coronation and has | :25:10. | :25:12. | |
made colourful comments in the past. He's in favour of the death penalty | :25:13. | :25:14. | |
for crimes like paedophilia. I think there is a clear | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
will amongst the offences should be dealt with | :25:18. | :25:19. | |
decisively. But again, on an issue like that, | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
that is something that Our members are not | :25:24. | :25:25. | |
going to agree with me on everything and I don't believe that | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
I would have any authority to have the say and determine | :25:32. | :25:33. | |
the future What method would you use | :25:34. | :25:35. | |
for the death penalty? Again, that is something that could | :25:36. | :25:38. | |
be determined by suggestions made So you'd have like an online | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
poll about whether you use the electric chair, | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
or lethal injection? For example, arguments would be made | :25:46. | :25:51. | |
in favour of This is such a small aspect | :25:52. | :25:53. | |
of what I'm standing for. Essentially, in mainstream media | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
they try to by focusing on pretty irrelevant | :25:59. | :25:59. | |
details. This is one vote that | :26:00. | :26:05. | |
the membership would have. What I'm actually trying to do | :26:06. | :26:08. | |
in this party is to revolutionise the democratic | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
process in the UK, and that's really what your viewers should | :26:13. | :26:14. | |
be concentrating on. With him at the helm he reckons Ukip | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
would win at Meanwhile, in New York, | :26:19. | :26:21. | |
on a visit to Trump Tower, Nigel Farage admired the plumage | :26:22. | :26:29. | |
of the President-elect, a man he has described as | :26:30. | :26:37. | |
a silverback gorilla, a friendship that's been condemned by some | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
in this leadership contest. There are also elections | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
to the party's National Executive Committee, a body | :26:44. | :26:45. | |
that's been roundly criticised by And we're joined now by two | :26:46. | :26:48. | |
of the candidates in the Ukip leadership election - | :26:49. | :27:03. | |
Suzanne Evans and Paul Nuttall. We are going to kick off by giving | :27:04. | :27:13. | |
each of them 30 seconds to lay out their case as to why they would be | :27:14. | :27:16. | |
the less leader starting with Suzanne Evans. | :27:17. | :27:19. | |
Ukip is at its best when it is scaring the political establishment, | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
forcing it to address those problems it would rather ignore. But it | :27:23. | :27:26. | |
really change people's lives for the better and fast, we need to win | :27:27. | :27:29. | |
seats and elections right across the country. To win at the ballot box we | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
need to attract more women, more ethnic | :27:34. | :27:53. | |
minorities, and more of those Labour voters who no longer recognise their | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
party. I know how to do that. Ukip under my | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
leadership will be the same page about it, common-sense, radical | :28:00. | :28:01. | |
party it has always been, just even more successful. Thank you, Suzanne | :28:02. | :28:03. | |
Evans, Paul Nuttall. I'm standing on a platform of unity and experience. | :28:04. | :28:06. | |
I believe the party must come together if it is to survive and | :28:07. | :28:08. | |
prosper. I believe I'm the best candidate to ensure that happens, I | :28:09. | :28:11. | |
am not part of any faction in the party, and beyond that I have done | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
every single job within the party, whether that is as head of policy, | :28:15. | :28:16. | |
whether that is Party Chairman, deputy leader for Nigel for the past | :28:17. | :28:19. | |
six years. I believe Ukip has great opportunities in Labour | :28:20. | :28:21. | |
constituencies where we can move in and become the Patriot invoice of | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
working people, and beyond that we have to ensure the government's feet | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
are held to the fire on Brexit and we get real Brexit, not a | :28:29. | :28:34. | |
mealy-mouthed version. How will you get a grip on this? People have to | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
realise that the cause is bigger than any personality, we have to get | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
together in a room and sort out not just a spokespeople role but roles | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
within the organisation, Party Chairman, party secretary, and | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
whatnot. But as I say, Ukip must unite, we are on 13% in the opinion | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
polls, the future is bright, there are open goals but Ukip must be on | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
the pitch to score them. He says he's the only one that can get a | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
grip on this party. I disagree, I have a huge amount of experience in | :29:04. | :29:06. | |
the party as well and also a background that I think means I can | :29:07. | :29:09. | |
help bring people together. I have always said nothing breeds unity | :29:10. | :29:20. | |
faster than success and under my leadership we will be successful. | :29:21. | :29:22. | |
There is concern about the future of our National Executive Committee | :29:23. | :29:25. | |
going forward. Mr Farage called it the lowest grade of people I have | :29:26. | :29:27. | |
ever met, do you agree? I think he must have been having a bad day I | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
think we need to make it more accountable to the membership, more | :29:32. | :29:34. | |
open, more democratic. What would you do with the National Executive | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
Committee? I have been calling for the National Executive Committee to | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
be elected reasonably since 201 giving the members better | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
communication lines and make it far more transparent. Would you have a | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
clear out of the office? I wouldn't, I think the chairman of the party, | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
Paul Upton, the interim chairman, is doing a good job and the only person | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
who has come out of the summer with his reputation enhanced. Let me show | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
you a picture we have all seen of your current leader, Mr Farage, with | :30:01. | :30:07. | |
President-elect Donald Trump. Paul Nuttall, you criticise Mr Farage's | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
decision to appear at rallies during the American election and called Mr | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
Trump appalling. Do you stick by that? I wouldn't have voted for him. | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
I made it clear. Do you still think he's appalling now that he is | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
President-elect? Some of the things he said were appalling during the | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
campaign that he said. But he would be good for Britain, trade, | :30:30. | :30:32. | |
pro-Brexit and he is an Anglo file and the first thing he did was put | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
the bust of Winston Churchill back in the Oval Office. You, Suzanne | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
Evans, called Mr Trump one of the weakest candidates the US has had. I | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
said the same about Hillary Clinton. They cannot both be the weakest The | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
better candidate on either side would have beaten the other, that is | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
quite clear. Do you stand by that, or are you glad that your leader Mr | :30:55. | :30:58. | |
Farage has strong ties to him? I am, why wouldn't I be? For Ukip to have | :30:59. | :31:04. | |
that direct connection, it can be only good for a party. Were you not | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
out of step and Mr Farage is in step because it looks like your vote is | :31:09. | :31:11. | |
according to polling I have seemed like Mr Trump and his policies? Let | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
me finish. If I am the leader of Ukip I will not be involving myself | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
in foreign elections, I will because in trading here in this country | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
ensuring we get Ukip people elected to council chambers and get seats in | :31:25. | :31:25. | |
2020. The other thing your leader has in | :31:26. | :31:35. | |
common with Mr Trump is that he rather admires Vladimir Putin. Do | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
you? I don't. If you look at Putin's record, he has invaded Ukraine and | :31:43. | :31:49. | |
Georgia. I am absolutely not a fan. I think that Vladimir Putin is | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
pretty much a nasty man, but beyond that, I believe that in the Middle | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
East, he is generally getting it right in many areas. We need to | :31:59. | :32:04. | |
bring the conflict... Bombing civilians? We need to bring the | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
conflict to an end as fast as possible. The British and American | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
line before Donald Trump is to support rebels, including one is | :32:14. | :32:20. | |
affiliated to Al-Qaeda, to the Taliban. We need to clear these | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
people out and ensure that Syria becomes stable. This controversial | :32:24. | :32:31. | |
breaking point poster from during the referendum campaign. Mr Farage | :32:32. | :32:35. | |
unveiled it, there he is standing in front of it. You can bend it - do | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
you still? Yes, I think it was the wrong poster at the wrong time. I | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
was involved with the vote Leave campaign as well as Ukip's campaign, | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
and I felt strongly that those concerned about immigration were | :32:50. | :32:52. | |
already going to vote to leave because it was a fundamental truth | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
that unless we left the European Union we couldn't control | :32:57. | :32:58. | |
immigration. I thought it was about approaching those soft wavering | :32:59. | :33:07. | |
voters who weren't sure. I don't think I said it was racist, but it | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
was about sovereignty and trade and so forth. That was where we needed | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
to go. I was concerned it might put off some of those wavering voters. | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
People may well say, it was part of the winning campaign. It was Ukip | :33:20. | :33:26. | |
shock and all, which is what you stand for and what makes you | :33:27. | :33:33. | |
different. I said I would know how that I said I would not have gone | :33:34. | :33:36. | |
for that person and I thought it was wrong to do it just a week out from | :33:37. | :33:39. | |
the referendum. However, I believe it released legitimate concerns | :33:40. | :33:46. | |
with a deluge of people making their way from the Middle East and Africa | :33:47. | :33:53. | |
into the European continent. Where is the low hanging fruit for you, | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
particularly in England? Is it Labour or Conservative voters? I | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
want to hang onto the Conservative voters we have got but I think the | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
low hanging fruit is Labour. Jeremy Corbyn won't sing the national | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
anthem, Emily Thornbury despises the English flag. Diane Abbott thinks | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
anyone talking about immigration is racist. Not to mention John | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
McDonnell's feelings about the IRA. Labour has ceased to be a party for | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
working people and I think Ukip is absolutely going to be that party. | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
It is clear, I absolutely concur with everything Suzanne has said. I | :34:30. | :34:35. | |
first voiced this back in 2008 that I believe Ukip has a fantastic | :34:36. | :34:38. | |
opportunity in working-class communities, and everyone laughed at | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
me. It is clear now that we resonate with working people, and you have | :34:43. | :34:45. | |
seen that in the Brexit result. Would you bring back the death | :34:46. | :34:52. | |
penalty? It wouldn't be Ukip policy. Absolutely not. Would you give more | :34:53. | :34:55. | |
money to the NHS and how would your fanatic? You like it is important to | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
fund it adequately, and it hasn t been to date. We promised in our | :35:00. | :35:09. | |
manifesto that we would give more money. Where does the money come | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
from? It is about tackling health tourism. I think the NHS is being | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
taken for a ride at the moment. That may be right, but where does the | :35:19. | :35:24. | |
money come from? It is about scaling back management in the NHS, because | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
that has burgeoned beyond control. They are spending far more money on | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
management. Where would you save money? We need to look at HS two, | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
foreign aid. Now we have Brexit and we will be saving on the membership | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
fee. We need to cut back on management, as Suzanne says. It | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
cannot be right that 51% of people who work for the NHS in England are | :35:47. | :35:53. | |
not clinically qualified. The NHS needs money now - where would you | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
get it? From HS two. That is capital spending spread over a long period. | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
Where will you get the money now? OK, another one. We spent ?25 | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
million every day on foreign aid to countries who sometimes are richer | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
than ourselves. Through the Barnett formula. You would take money away | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
from Scotland? Yes, I think they get far too much. PG tips or Earl Grey? | :36:19. | :36:34. | |
Colegrave. PG tips. Strictly come dancing or X Factor? Neither. | :36:35. | :36:41. | |
Strictly. I would love to be on it one day. There you go. Thank you | :36:42. | :36:47. | |
It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead. | :36:54. | :37:02. | |
Welcome to a special Sunday Politics East, | :37:03. | :37:05. | |
devoted to devolution plans for this region. | :37:06. | :37:11. | |
Here with me are some of the key people involved. | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
Devolution will now deliver for Cambridgeshire and Peterborough. | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
But the plan for Norfolk and Suffolk is over. | :37:19. | :37:20. | |
The dream began with a handshake on a bridge over the River Waveney | :37:21. | :37:23. | |
in 2013 and culminated in a 90-minute meeting | :37:24. | :37:25. | |
in King's Lynn this week that saw the end of it. | :37:26. | :37:34. | |
We'll hear from both sides and discuss what happens next. | :37:35. | :37:36. | |
What this is about is, can you be more than a sum-of-parts? | :37:37. | :37:52. | |
Can you really come together and actually achieve | :37:53. | :37:54. | |
a level of growth that you couldn't achieve on your own? | :37:55. | :38:03. | |
It has been such a torturous process. | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
Yet, on the face of it, devolution seemed such a good idea. | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
Instead of Westminster runnhng transport and road networks | :38:13. | :38:15. | |
and deciding when new roads and homes should be built, | :38:16. | :38:17. | |
a locally elected mayor could make the decisions instead | :38:18. | :38:19. | |
He or she will be a big character, who can both make sure that | :38:20. | :38:29. | |
we fight our corner domestically, get the investment we need, | :38:30. | :38:32. | |
make the decisions locally to improve things. | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
And also represent East Anglia around the world. | :38:38. | :38:39. | |
We've agreed that a single, powerful East Anglia | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
combined authority can headed up by an elected mayor... | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
The initial plans were rushdd out by the government before thdy had | :38:47. | :38:49. | |
And it eventually secured its own devolution deal, | :38:50. | :38:55. | |
leaving Norfolk and Suffolk on their own. | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
Four of Norfolk's seven authorities pulled out early on. | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
On Thursday night this week, King's Lynn and West Norfolk | :39:04. | :39:06. | |
I think people are concerned that the imposition of a maxor | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
I think they understand that we need infrastructure and we need | :39:12. | :39:20. | |
But I think they don't need another layer of bureaucracx. | :39:21. | :39:27. | |
Tomorrow, the government is expected to confirm that the devoluthon deal | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
for Norfolk and Suffolk is off the table. | :39:31. | :39:32. | |
All of Suffolk councils were expected to approve | :39:33. | :39:40. | |
And two authorities in Norfolk South Norfolk and Broadland - | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
overwhelmingly said yes to a devolution this week. | :39:45. | :39:46. | |
Devolution is, really, devolving powers from | :39:47. | :39:47. | |
central government to local government | :39:48. | :39:48. | |
And that's exactly what people in all the consultations, | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
and everything that was said, wanted to hear. | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
I would hate to think we are saying... | :39:57. | :39:58. | |
"Right, that's it, put it all to bed", and walk away. | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
That will be a disaster for everybody. | :40:02. | :40:04. | |
And, this weekend, people are talking about | :40:05. | :40:05. | |
Of those in Norfolk and Suffolk who really want devolution | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
But there are still some people hoping | :40:10. | :40:17. | |
On Friday, the government ptlled out of the devolution deal for Norfolk | :40:18. | :40:28. | |
and Suffolk worth ?750 millhon over 30 thirty years, | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
The decision followed the vote at King's Lynn District Council | :40:33. | :40:38. | |
The town's MP, Sir Henry Bellingham, has spearheaded the campaign | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
against devolution and a directly elected mayor. | :40:44. | :40:46. | |
He told Andrew Sinclair that he doesn't think | :40:47. | :40:48. | |
We are seeing cuts to lollipop ladies, gritting on winter roads, | :40:49. | :40:55. | |
And so, to actually have put money, a lot of money, into setting up | :40:56. | :41:02. | |
with all the bureaucracy that entails - | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
would have been completely unacceptable. | :41:07. | :41:07. | |
?750 million over 30 years for infrastructure. | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
Norfolk and Suffolk have just turned their backs | :41:12. | :41:13. | |
George Osborne said he would devolve money to combined authoritids | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
that would, otherwise, have been spent by | :41:20. | :41:21. | |
It is old money being delivered in a new way. | :41:22. | :41:30. | |
What we said in the manifesto was that we would devolve money | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
to combined authorities and have elected mayors | :41:34. | :41:35. | |
There's nothing in the manifesto about rural areas. | :41:36. | :41:38. | |
What is interesting is that a lot of shire counties have rejected | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
Yorkshire has rejected it. Lincolnshire as well. | :41:42. | :41:49. | |
So, basically, elected mayors do not go in shire counties. | :41:50. | :41:51. | |
I have an affinity to Norfolk, I love Norfolk. | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
I have no affinity to East @nglia or Norfolk and Suffolk. | :41:55. | :41:56. | |
But what is the problem with the mayor? | :41:57. | :41:58. | |
Why are people so fearful of the idea of a mayor? | :41:59. | :42:01. | |
First of all, this would have been a Suffolk mayor, because, already, | :42:02. | :42:04. | |
four Norfolk councils were out of the process. | :42:05. | :42:05. | |
So it wasn't Norfolk and Suffolk, as everyone kept saying. | :42:06. | :42:08. | |
So, by definition, it would have been a Suffolk mayor. | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
And the mayor would have had power over regional planning. | :42:15. | :42:17. | |
He could have set up a land commission, which could havd looked | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
We were going to see powers going away from our borough council | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
So, I don't want to have that power given away. | :42:25. | :42:27. | |
I don't want to have a fifth tier of bureaucracy. | :42:28. | :42:29. | |
I think the idea of having loney given to local authorities, | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
or to a new combined authorhty without a mayor, is a good hdea | :42:34. | :42:36. | |
But I'm dead against the idea of an elected mayor. | :42:37. | :42:39. | |
The public would not have found that acceptable. | :42:40. | :42:41. | |
Nick Daubney, the former leader of King's Lynn Counchl | :42:42. | :42:43. | |
"Norfolk is so often at the bottom of the pile. | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
"Devolution will make things happen". | :42:48. | :42:50. | |
Isn't there a danger that Cambridgeshire will move ahdad | :42:51. | :42:52. | |
with devolution and Norfolk and Suffolk | :42:53. | :42:53. | |
will, once again, be left at the bottom of the pile? | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
If you look at the big-ticket items... | :42:58. | :43:00. | |
Under this devolution deal, we were talking about 13 million | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
a year, with a bit more for housing and a bit more for infrastrtcture. | :43:05. | :43:07. | |
The Ely North Junction, which actually isn't in either | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
Norfolk or Suffolk, by the way, is going to cost 100 million. | :43:13. | :43:14. | |
The schemes on the A47 - we are talking about roundabouts - | :43:15. | :43:17. | |
These schemes are in the programme already. | :43:18. | :43:19. | |
What could the elected mayor and the combined authority | :43:20. | :43:21. | |
It might have got things built quicker. | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
I don't think it would have done, | :43:27. | :43:28. | |
because the money is already committed. | :43:29. | :43:29. | |
I don't accept what people are saying about | :43:30. | :43:31. | |
And how Norfolk will go back into the dark ages. | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
We will get a deal in futurd that will suit Norfolk much better. | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
And it may well not entail an elected mayor. | :43:41. | :43:42. | |
So, what sort of a deal do you envisage in future? | :43:43. | :43:44. | |
The government have made it very clear | :43:45. | :43:46. | |
They want the devolution deals to go through. | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
But, in phase one, they had to be elected mayors, | :43:51. | :43:53. | |
because that's what Sajid Javid inherited. | :43:54. | :43:55. | |
"Look, if you reject this ddal, I won't take it personally. | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
And we can look at a new de`l. That's what he said. | :44:00. | :44:07. | |
Listening to that is one of the main architects of the plans, | :44:08. | :44:10. | |
West Suffolk MP and Minister for Culture and Digital Polhcy, | :44:11. | :44:12. | |
Henry Bellingham is very confident of a new deal | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
I am not sure about that. What I do want to see is the continuation of | :44:17. | :44:22. | |
the principle behind devolution which is one that many people back, | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
including right across Norfolk and certainly here in Suffolk. That is | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
the more decision should be made locally. More local Seo for those | :44:33. | :44:38. | |
decisions. Of course it is disappointing when more mondy | :44:39. | :44:44. | |
locally is put on the table or decisions to be made locallx is put | :44:45. | :44:51. | |
the table, and we have been working on this pan for several years. And | :44:52. | :44:53. | |
some councils have decided to reject it. But I think we should continue | :44:54. | :44:57. | |
to work to get decisions made locally. The mayor seems to be the | :44:58. | :44:59. | |
main sticking point. Why has the government insisted | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
upon something that, quite frankly, lots | :45:04. | :45:05. | |
of people at a local I'm not sure that is true, `ctually. | :45:06. | :45:13. | |
I think the idea of having ` single person who is accountable as well as | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
responsible is a very strong one. It certainly worked in lots of areas | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
around the world and countrx. And it really puts a place on the lap. So, | :45:23. | :45:29. | |
I think that it is a popular idea and a good idea. And I think that it | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
will work. What we've got to do now is take away that this is about | :45:34. | :45:43. | |
getting decisions made locally. If the council decides locally that | :45:44. | :45:46. | |
they don't want those powers, that is their decision. I think we should | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
continue to work with those who want to go forward with the deal and | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
thumping close of the deal that is on the table. And try to make that | :45:55. | :45:56. | |
work. These decisions should be m`de on | :45:57. | :46:10. | |
the deal should be made loc`lly unsupported locally. Right `cross | :46:11. | :46:14. | |
Suffolk, people are very supportive of having extra money coming into | :46:15. | :46:18. | |
their area and extra powers so decisions can be made locally. I | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
want to see that happen. We will be working with the decision that was | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
made in Norfolk on Friday. We will be working next week to see if we | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
can land a deal amongst those who want to support it. How significant | :46:33. | :46:39. | |
is all of this? We had the accusation that it is just old money | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
being spent on a different way. It is extra money coming to our area. | :46:45. | :46:50. | |
That is the point. Of coursd, all government money ultimately as tax | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
payer's money. But that is `t a national level. I want to sde extra | :46:56. | :47:01. | |
what was being proposed. And I hope what was being proposed. And I hope | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
that we can keep that on thd table. So, I think there is a good deal of | :47:07. | :47:15. | |
support for continuing with this. And that is amongst those who want | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
a. Those who don't, that fine. Thank you very much. -- those who wanted. | :47:20. | :47:25. | |
Here in the studio, we have the former Labour ldader | :47:26. | :47:27. | |
of Norfolk County Council, George Nobbs, who was for | :47:28. | :47:30. | |
Colin Noble, Leader of Suffolk County Council, | :47:31. | :47:33. | |
John Fuller, the leader of South Norfolk District Council, | :47:34. | :47:36. | |
who has spent a great deal of time trying to make it work. | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
And Norfolk MP, Richard Bacon, who added his name | :47:40. | :47:41. | |
to a letter supporting devolution last month. | :47:42. | :47:43. | |
George Nobbs, you were in f`vour, but you're not now? | :47:44. | :47:50. | |
But hasn't Norfolk missed ott on all this money and the chance | :47:51. | :47:53. | |
I don't think so. A lot of things that Matthew said... He said, for | :47:54. | :48:06. | |
example, this is about decisions being made locally. Yet the decision | :48:07. | :48:14. | |
which has scuppered the stedl is one which we cannot make locallx. The | :48:15. | :48:17. | |
whole problem with this as H have been in favour from the beghnning of | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
devolution, but it has been dictated to us. I remember going to leetings | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
with ministers where they h`ve said in the past we have imposed a model | :48:26. | :48:27. | |
that was a mistake. It is up to you that was a mistake. It is up to you | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
to devise exactly the deal xou want. And then, as soon as we went to them | :48:33. | :48:42. | |
and said, can we change this? No. So, the government had handled this | :48:43. | :48:43. | |
badly. Well, the government has had badly. Well, the government has had | :48:44. | :48:52. | |
to deal with diametrically opposed interests. I supported it bdcause I | :48:53. | :48:59. | |
didn't want extra money to comment Norfolk and Suffolk. This ddal was a | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
route to making that happen. I thought there was a chance to | :49:06. | :49:07. | |
streamline it later on and lake it streamline it later on and lake it | :49:08. | :49:10. | |
more acceptable. John Fuller, extra money that could have slippdd | :49:11. | :49:15. | |
through your fingers. You fdeling a bit despondent this morning? Yes, I | :49:16. | :49:18. | |
am disappointed that if you have a am disappointed that if you have a | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
winning lottery ticket and xour neighbour's dog eats it. But that | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
lottery ticket was worth ne`rly ?1 billion. So long, that taxp`yer s | :49:29. | :49:39. | |
money from this region has gone on to London. We could have got that | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
back, but also retained a greater proportion going forward. And that | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
seems, to me, it is a government forcing a man upon us, that seemed | :49:50. | :49:51. | |
to me a price worth paying. Colin Noble, Sir Henry Bellhngham | :49:52. | :50:00. | |
took a strong objection to ` mayor Seriously, though, the concdrns | :50:01. | :50:03. | |
in Kings Lynn are very diffdrent I think for me, as long as H've been | :50:04. | :50:15. | |
a councillor, this has alwaxs been about more local decision-m`king. As | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
higher had more senior roles, we have gone to Whitehall and pointed | :50:21. | :50:25. | |
what we should be doing. -- as I what we should be doing. -- as I | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
have had more senior roles. You are sitting with council leaders and | :50:31. | :50:33. | |
business people who know thd area know what needs to be done `nd make | :50:34. | :50:38. | |
decisions and better decisions than are made in Whitehall. John made the | :50:39. | :50:41. | |
point about the amount of money on offer. For me, this has alw`ys been | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
about more local decision-m`king. Whether the mayor came from Norfolk | :50:47. | :50:50. | |
Suffolk, I don't accept the point at all. I think the combined atthority | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
on the way we work together shows that we can make the decisions for | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
knowledge of it, which is a far knowledge of it, which is a far | :50:59. | :51:01. | |
better way of making decisions than doing it by going down to Whitehall. | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
You are nodding in agreement. But you could not make it work. I am not | :51:08. | :51:14. | |
in agreement with Henry Bellingham. It is not an objection to the | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
scheme. Henry says he has no affinity with East Anglia. H find | :51:19. | :51:24. | |
that hard to believe. I don't mind whether the mayor comes frol Norfolk | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
Suffolk. I just don't want there to be one. And I don't want ond | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
imposed. John says the government imposing one is a price worth | :51:33. | :51:35. | |
paying. If the money was sufficiently good and you could | :51:36. | :51:38. | |
convince councils it would work they would have voted for it. Five | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
out of seven districts in Norfolk voted no. The whole with thhs.. You | :51:43. | :51:47. | |
remember the meeting in Cambridge. Out of the blue, we were told that | :51:48. | :51:53. | |
Norfolk and Suffolk deal is dead. The Cambridge deal is dead. This new | :51:54. | :51:58. | |
deal, which we have announcdd as a surprise today is the only deal | :51:59. | :52:03. | |
town. They have changed backward and forward and it has been top,down. | :52:04. | :52:09. | |
John Fuller? There have been changes. It would have been more | :52:10. | :52:13. | |
straightforward, the governlent just told us what they were doing. There | :52:14. | :52:16. | |
have been bumps along the road. -- have been bumps along the road. -- | :52:17. | :52:22. | |
away from the main point. Rhchard away from the main point. Rhchard | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
and I were opposed on the ET debate. We need to have an outward looking | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
economy after Brexit. We have to compete on a geography that makes | :52:32. | :52:38. | |
sense to inward investors. @nd having somebody, a mayor, who can go | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
out and represent our interdsts it is a good thing. We are net | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
contributors to the Exchequdr. I would rather have them spent in | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
Norfolk and Suffolk. Even if it is not quite enough as George light say | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
to start with, the point of this was it was the start of something that | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
could have grown. You could have seen the PCC being merged into the | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
elected county commissioner. There is every reason why this should have | :53:06. | :53:10. | |
evolved. Strategic decisions could then be made, regarding bro`dband | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
local level. And you have gdnuine local level. And you have gdnuine | :53:16. | :53:26. | |
local decision-making. And xou don't have concerns about more tidrs of | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
government. We have 782 councillors across Norfolk and Suffolk. It | :53:32. | :53:32. | |
sounds a bit heavy for me. We were sounds a bit heavy for me. We were | :53:33. | :53:37. | |
not going to stream all of that through this deal. But I thhnk it | :53:38. | :53:43. | |
would have led to a local government that for purpose. | :53:44. | :53:49. | |
Because, whereas everyone here is very interested | :53:50. | :53:52. | |
in all the details, I'm wondering whether people in the street | :53:53. | :53:55. | |
are going to notice any difference at all, | :53:56. | :53:57. | |
I think they would notice the difference if it was devolution | :53:58. | :54:08. | |
This is the argument many of us happy forward. This has nothing to | :54:09. | :54:11. | |
do with devolution. You mentioned the meeting on the bridge. That was | :54:12. | :54:15. | |
nothing to do with this deal. That was Norfolk and Suffolk county | :54:16. | :54:22. | |
councils and to do users -- two leaders coming together voltntarily. | :54:23. | :54:28. | |
Colin, I want to hear your response. Doesn't matter to the ordin`ry | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
people in the street? Yes, because it is about growth and jobs. We re | :54:33. | :54:37. | |
of Whitehall and bringing them of Whitehall and bringing them | :54:38. | :54:41. | |
locally and making better ddcisions to help grow our economy. When we | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
looked at this after Juma Rdel took the decision go out and talk to the | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
public and talk to businessds, some themes emerged. Very clear themes. | :54:52. | :55:02. | |
When you were asked, do you want a mayor? They didn't want another | :55:03. | :55:10. | |
layer of government. And ard you OK with a mayor? The answer was yes. | :55:11. | :55:15. | |
Business people said yes overwhelmingly. Business, when you | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
go out and talk to federations and Chambers and board members `nd wider | :55:21. | :55:24. | |
than let board members, all of them are unanimous in their opinhon that, | :55:25. | :55:29. | |
yes, a mayor would help drive growth. Let's move this and look | :55:30. | :55:40. | |
forward to stop what next? John Fuller. You have talked abott the | :55:41. | :55:43. | |
coalition of the willing. Those of us who do wish to get on... | :55:44. | :55:52. | |
The moral case for building homes is good tomorrow as it was last week. | :55:53. | :55:58. | |
The case for new jobs and infrastructure and training | :55:59. | :56:01. | |
youngsters and the skills that they need to grow the economy is still | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
going forward. That is what devolution was all about. I'm yet to | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
meet anybody who does not w`nt infrastructure to go along with the | :56:10. | :56:12. | |
building of new homes or jobs. That is what devolution is about. Those | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
areas that want to get on should be able to. I think what this has shown | :56:17. | :56:23. | |
us is that the people in West Norfolk have a completely dhfferent | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
economy to those closest to Norwich. They look to Cambridge and | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
Peterborough and, although we have a single county in Norfolk, there are | :56:32. | :56:34. | |
different areas with differdnt aspirations. They need to bd | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
accommodated. Does the government need to go back to the drawhng | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
board? You have to start from where we are. A local councils in Norfolk | :56:44. | :56:49. | |
and a similar number in Suffolk and far too many councils. That needs | :56:50. | :56:54. | |
streamlining. Taxpayers expdct it. And they have every right to expect | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
a local government that is fit for purpose. Even a small housing | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
development can take ten to 15 years. We have got to get a local | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
system for decision-making that works. And we need a strongdr local | :57:08. | :57:15. | |
government that is steered by central government. | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
Colin Noble, how confident are you of securing | :57:20. | :57:21. | |
Yesterday, all of the leaders, we all sat down as we do every month, | :57:22. | :57:30. | |
because we have a regular mdeting. And we discussed it and we decided | :57:31. | :57:34. | |
that next week all about cotncils were meeting and we would go back to | :57:35. | :57:37. | |
our councils with the results of the work that we done and talking to the | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
public and talk to the councils to make a decision. Among the leaders, | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
there's a feeling that we would like to go ahead and to put to the | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
Secretary of State a Suffolk only deal. But it is not just Suffolk | :57:51. | :57:55. | |
only. It is Suffolk -based. Other areas can see the advantage of | :57:56. | :58:01. | |
devolution and the advantagd it will make and bring infrastructure | :58:02. | :58:07. | |
spending, we want to talk to those areas. The SDP is north Essdx as | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
well. Talk to all of our potential partners about how we would take a | :58:13. | :58:15. | |
Suffolk -based devolution ddal forward. It is not over unthl it is | :58:16. | :58:18. | |
over. Thank you very much. Before we go, | :58:19. | :58:21. | |
something a little bit fishx in our political | :58:22. | :58:23. | |
round-up of the week. A better deal for the fishing | :58:24. | :58:39. | |
industry in this region was called for in Parliament this week. He said | :58:40. | :58:47. | |
Brexit presented a opportunhty to regenerate communities like | :58:48. | :58:50. | |
Lowestoft. This is the very least they deserve in the most dangerous | :58:51. | :58:58. | |
trade in Britain. Labour's party faithful heard that membership has | :58:59. | :59:06. | |
raised since last's General Election. The government is to spend | :59:07. | :59:12. | |
?27 million on developing the case for a fast road link between Milton | :59:13. | :59:16. | |
Keynes and Cambridge. The ddcision will be announced in next wdek's | :59:17. | :59:22. | |
Autumn Statement. And Norfolk MP Richard Bacon prompted the PM into a | :59:23. | :59:30. | |
response less to -- Theresa May and more may West. What reassur`nce does | :59:31. | :59:36. | |
she have for fat, middle-agdd white men that may feel we have bden left | :59:37. | :59:40. | |
behind? Perhaps he would like to come up and see me sometime? | :59:41. | :59:50. | |
We're back at the same time next week. | :59:51. | :59:54. | |
never happened and will not happen in four years. It is subject we | :59:55. | :00:00. | |
should spend more time on. Back to you. | :00:01. | :00:09. | |
What will the Chancellor have to say in his first big economic statement? | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
What impact will the forecasters say Brexit will have on the economy | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
And who will face the Front National's Marine Le Pen in | :00:17. | :00:18. | |
Well, the Shadow Chancellor and the Chancellor have both been | :00:19. | :00:33. | |
touring the television studios this morning. | :00:34. | :00:35. | |
Let's be clear, a lot of this is going to be gimmicks and press | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
As I've said, in the pipeline, we've only | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
seen one in five delivered to construction, that's all. | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
So a lot of this will be a repeat of what | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
I'm not going to reveal what I'm going to say on | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
We don't have unlimited capacity, as one might | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
imagine from listening to John McDonnell, to borrow | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
hundreds of billions of pounds more for discretionary spending. | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
That simply doesn't exist if we're going to | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
retain this country's hard-won credibility in the financial markets | :01:11. | :01:12. | |
if we are going to remain an attractive place for business to | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
We didn't learn very much, Helen, but the papers were briefed this | :01:18. | :01:30. | |
morning that there will be another ?1.3 billion for roads and things | :01:31. | :01:38. | |
like that. ?1.3 billion is 0.08 of our GDP. Not exactly an | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
infrastructure investment programme, is it? Yellow like I have to say, it | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
was not thrilling to read the details. -- I have to say... It is | :01:49. | :01:57. | |
the first big financial statement that is going to come and I think | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
there will be a big row about the OBE are forecast because they cannot | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
set out a range, they have to commit to one forecast. Everything they do | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
is incredibly political. DOB are is on a hiding to nothing. -- DOB are | :02:10. | :02:18. | |
-- the Office for Budget Responsibility. I don't know how | :02:19. | :02:27. | |
they will square the circle. It is an interesting week. It is all about | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
the economy and public finances and we don't have to talk about Brexit | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
until next Sunday, but no, I have a terrible feeling that by the end of | :02:36. | :02:46. | |
Wednesday afternoon we will be screaming and shouting about how | :02:47. | :02:48. | |
Brexit is going to be for the economy. Just imagine the Treasury | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
comes out with his forecast that it is going to collapse growth and | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
collapsed Treasury takings, people will be apoplectic. Until now, the | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
economy has continued to grow strongly. Pretty well. They cannot | :03:04. | :03:10. | |
say, we have noticed it slowing down and that will continue. They have to | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
take a punt if they think it will slow down. It affects the | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
Chancellor's figures, because the more they say it is slowing down, | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
and I have seen that it will go from 2% down to 1.4%, the more the | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
Chancellor's deficit rises even without any more tax cuts and | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
spending. Absolutely. I think Tom is right. What we will see this week is | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
a continuation of the debate we have been having all along. If the Office | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
for Budget Responsibility has negative and gloomy predictions | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
there will be howls of agony, and rightly howls of frustration from | :03:46. | :03:53. | |
Brexiteers who will say that all the dire predictions from before the | :03:54. | :03:55. | |
referendum have not come to pass and now you are talking things down in a | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
way that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The money for roads, you | :04:00. | :04:06. | |
were dismissive about it, but every little helps. I don't dismiss it, I | :04:07. | :04:14. | |
say it doesn't amount to a fiscal stimulus in macro economic terms. | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
I'm sure if you are on that road, it will be useful. They are going to | :04:19. | :04:26. | |
build a super highway between Oxford and Cambridge. I would like to see | :04:27. | :04:36. | |
them go out to Japan and learn how to fill a hole in two days. I would | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
suggest the road from Oxford to Cambridge is not for the just | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
managing classes, even though it goes through Milton Keynes, and that | :04:46. | :04:53. | |
simply freezing due freezing fuel duty isn't going to hack it, either. | :04:54. | :05:00. | |
These just about managing people are potentially quite a big band. With | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
income tax rises, it means anything you do to help them is incredibly | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
expensive. The universal credit freeze is an interesting example of | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
that. Philip Hammond sounded ambivalent about it after | :05:13. | :05:19. | |
pre-briefings that it might not the cuts might not go ahead. There are | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
people who are in work but because they are low paid don't have the | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
number of hours, they require welfare benefits to top up their | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
pay, and these welfare benefits as it stands, are frozen until 202 , | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
and yet inflation is now starting to rise. That's a problem for the just | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
managing people. Correct. It is worse than that, because we are | :05:45. | :05:54. | |
talking about April 2017 when tax credits become universal credits, so | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
the squeeze will be greater. We will get a small highway between a couple | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
of university towns, but if he has any money left to spend at all, it | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
will be on some pretty seismic jazzman for the just about managing | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
people. I am so glad we're not calling them Jams on this programme, | :06:15. | :06:24. | |
because it is a patronising tone. What the Chancellor and Shadow | :06:25. | :06:30. | |
Chancellor did not confront is that Mr Trump's election is a watershed | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
in terms of being able to borrow cheaply. The Federal Reserve is | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
about to start raising rates. The days of cheap borrowing for | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
governments could be coming to an end. You can feel a bit sorry for | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
labour here because after having had six years of being told that we need | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
a surplus and these things are important, we can't deny the | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
deficit, we have switched now and the first thing that Philip Hammond | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
did was to scrap George Osborne s borrowing targets. He has given | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
himself more wriggle room than George Osborne had. He has and it | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
will cost them more. Debt servicing will now rise as a cost. Where is | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
the next political earthquake going to happen? | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
It could be Italy, or the French elections coming up next spring | :07:23. | :07:29. | |
Now, who will face the Front National's Marine Le Pen in next | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
year's French Presidential elections? | :07:33. | :07:33. | |
Well, France's centre-right part, Les Republicans, | :07:34. | :07:34. | |
are selecting their candidate in the first round of | :07:35. | :07:36. | |
Well, France's centre-right part, Les Republicans, | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
are selecting their candidate in the first round of | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
Let's speak to our correspondent in Paris, Hugh Schofield. | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
Welcome to the programme. Three main candidates, the former -- two former | :07:48. | :08:00. | |
prime ministers and Nicolas Sarkozy, the former president. It is not | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
clear who the front runner is. Robbins it is quite an exciting | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
race, because four weeks it did look as if it was going to be Juppe. It | :08:09. | :08:22. | |
is a two round race. Two go through and the idea is that they rally all | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
the support together. It looked like the first round would be dominated | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
by Juppe and Nicolas Sarkozy, and there was a clear binary combination | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
there, because Sarkozy was looking for squeamish far right voters. In | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
other words, veering clearly to the right and far right on immigration | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
and identity issues. And Juppe is the opposite, saying we had to | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
appeal to the centre. That was what it looked like. But the third | :08:51. | :08:57. | |
candidate has made this really quite staggering surge in the last few | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
days. There was a debate on Thursday and he was deemed to have won it on | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
television. He is coming up strongly, and I wouldn't be at all | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
surprised to see him go through which would be interesting from a | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
British perspective, because if the becomes president, he will be the | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
first president with a British wife. His wife Penelope is Welsh. | :09:20. | :09:27. | |
We will have to leave it there. I would suggest that the reason it is | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
fascinating is that whoever wins this primary for the centre-right | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
party is likely to be the next president, and who the next | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
president is will be very important for Britain in these Brexit | :09:40. | :09:41. | |
negotiations. Nothing will really happen until it is determined. Then | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
after the German elections in October. I would add one more | :09:46. | :09:52. | |
constituent part. The most important thing about the race is who can stop | :09:53. | :10:00. | |
Marine Le Pen. Marine Le Pen will almost be one of the ones in the | :10:01. | :10:08. | |
run-off. The Socialists don't expect much. Francois Hollande is done | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
There is too much of a cliff to climb. Which one of these three | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
centre-right candidates can stop Marine Le Pen? We have had Brexit | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
and Trump, but we could also have Marine Le Pen. If it is Sarkozy it | :10:25. | :10:33. | |
is the battle of the right. In some areas, he has moved to the right of | :10:34. | :10:40. | |
marine Le Pen. I suppose he feels he has do in order to take the wind out | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
of our sails. You wonder if she could succeed later on if she does | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
not this time. Talking to French analysts last night, there was | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
suggesting that she could not do it this time but could win the next | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
time. All the events in France over the last year seemed to provide the | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
most propitious circumstances for her to do well, and particularly if | :10:59. | :11:05. | |
you throw in Trump and Brexit. Suppose it is Mr Sarkozy, and he | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
goes through and wins the Republican nomination, and he and Marine Le Pen | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
go through to the second round, that would mean, think about it, is that | :11:14. | :11:21. | |
a lot of French socialist voters and those on the father left would have | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
to grit their teeth and vote for Nicolas Sarkozy. They might not do | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
it. We might see what we saw in America, where lots of potential | :11:34. | :11:45. | |
Clinton voters did not turn out You got politicians like Melanchon on | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
the far left saying there are foreign workers taking bread out of | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
French workers' mounts. We sometimes forget, because we tend to emphasise | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
the National of the National front, but actually, there are economic | :11:58. | :12:13. | |
policy is quite Bennite. Sarkozy is the Hillary Clinton of the French | :12:14. | :12:21. | |
elections. He is Mr establishment. Juppe and the other third candidate | :12:22. | :12:29. | |
are the same. You have to re-establish candidates running | :12:30. | :12:31. | |
against an antiestablishment candidate. There are populist | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
economic policies from the National front. The other three want to raise | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
the retirement age and cut back on the 35 hour week, which are not | :12:40. | :12:48. | |
classic electoral appeals. Mr Juppe used to be the Mayor of Bordeaux. | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
And we are the biggest importers of claret, so that could have an | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
effect. In 2002, it was Jack Shear against John Marine Le Pen, and the | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
socialist campaign slogan was, vote for the Crook, not the fascist. We | :13:04. | :13:11. | |
will see what they come up with this time. | :13:12. | :13:13. | |
The Daily Politics is back at noon tomorrow on BBC Two, | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
where on Wednesday I will have full coverage of the Chancellor's Autumn | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
But remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:24. | :13:33. |