Browse content similar to 05/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday Morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
The Chancellor says that to embark on a spending spree | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
in Wednesday's Budget would be "reckless". | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
But will there be more money for social care and to ease | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
The UK terror threat is currently severe, | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
but where is that threat coming from? | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
We have the detailed picture from a vast new study of every | :00:58. | :01:00. | |
Islamist related terrorist offence committed over the last two decades. | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
What can we learn from these offences to thwart future attacks? | :01:05. | :01:10. | |
The government was defeated in the Lords on its | :01:11. | :01:12. | |
We'll ask the Leader of the House of Commons what he'll do if peers | :01:13. | :01:21. | |
Here in the East, the headteacher threatening to quit, | :01:22. | :01:24. | |
after hundreds of schools are set to lose out under the government's | :01:25. | :01:26. | |
All that coming up in the next hour and a quarter. | :01:27. | :01:39. | |
Now, some of you might have read that intruders managed | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
to get into the BBC news studios this weekend. | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
Well three of them appear not to have been ejected yet, | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
so we might as well make use of them as our political panel. | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards. | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
They'll be tweeting throughout the programme. | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
Philip Hammond will deliver his second financial | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
statement as Chancellor and the last Spring Budget | :02:06. | :02:07. | |
for a while at least - they are moving to the Autumn | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
There's been pressure on him to find more money | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
for the Health Service, social care, schools funding, | :02:15. | :02:15. | |
But this morning the Chancellor insisted that he will not be | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
using the proceeds of better than expected tax receipts to embark | :02:22. | :02:23. | |
What is being speculated on is whether we might not have borrowed | :02:24. | :02:35. | |
quite as much as we were forecast to borrow. You will see the numbers on | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
Wednesday. But if your bank increases your credit card limit, I | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
do not think you feel obliged to go out and spent every last penny of it | :02:47. | :02:48. | |
He is moving the budget to the autumn, he told us that in his | :02:49. | :03:00. | |
statement, so maybe on Wednesday it will be like a spring statement | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
rather than a full-blown budget. Tinkering pre-Brexit and in November | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
he will have a more clear idea of the impact of Brexit and I suspect | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
that will be the bigger event than this one. It looks as if there will | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
be a bit of money here and there, small amounts, not enough in my | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
view, for social care and so on, possibly a review of social care | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
policy. A familiar device which rarely get anywhere. I think he has | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
got a bit more space to do more if he wanted to do now because of the | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
politics. They are miles ahead in the polls, so he could do more, but | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
it is not in his character, he is cautious. So he keeps his powder dry | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
on most things, he does some things, but he keeps it dry until November. | :03:50. | :03:56. | |
But also, as Steve says, he will know just how strong the economy has | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
been this year by November and whether he needs to do some pump | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
priming or whether everything is fine. He said it is too early to | :04:04. | :04:10. | |
make those sorts of judgments now. What is striking is the amount of | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
concern there is an Number ten and in the Treasury about the tone of | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
this budget, so less about the actual figures and more about what | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
message this is sending out to the rest of the world. I think some | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
senior MPs are calling it a kind of treading water budget and Phil | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
Hammond has got quite a difficult act to perform because he is | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
instinctively rather cautious, or very cautious, and instinctively | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
slightly gloomy about Brexit. He wanted to remain. But he does not | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
want this budget to sounded downbeat and he will be mauled if he makes it | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
sound downbeat, so he has to inject a little bit of optimism and we may | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
see that in the infrastructure spending plans. He has got some room | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
to manoeuvre. The deficit by the financial year ending in April we | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
now know will not be as big as the OBR told us only three and a half | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
months ago that it would be. They added 12 billion on and they may | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
take most of that off again. He is under pressure from his own side to | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
do something on social care and business rates and I bet some Tory | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
backbenchers would not mind a little bit more money for the NHS as well. | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
He is on a huge pressure to do a whole lot on a whole load, not just | :05:29. | :05:35. | |
social care. There is also how on earth do we pay for so many old | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
people? There is the NHS, defence spending, everything. But his words | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
this morning, which is I am not going to spend potentially an extra | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
30 billion I might have by 2020 because of improved economic growth | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
was interesting. You need to hold something back because Brexit might | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
go back and he was a bit of a remain campaign person. If you think | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
Britain is going to curl up into a corner and hideaway licking its | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
wounds, you have got another think coming. That 30 billion he might | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
have extra in his pocket could be worth deploying on building up | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
Britain with huge tax cuts in case there is no deal, a war chest if you | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
like. He will have more than 27 billion. He may decide 27 billion in | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
the statement, the margin by which he tries to get the structural | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
deficit down, he will still have 27 billion. If the receipts are better | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
than they are forecast, some people are saying he will have a war chest | :06:43. | :06:49. | |
of 60 billion. That money, as Mr Osborne found out, can disappear. He | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
clearly is planning not to go on a spending spree this Wednesday. It is | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
interesting in the FTB and the day, David Laws who was chief Secretary | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
for five minutes, was also enthusiastic about the original | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
George Osborne austerity programme and he said, we have reached the | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
limits to what is socially possible with this and a consensus is | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
beginning to emerge that he will have to spend more money than he | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
plans to this Wednesday. This is not just from Labour MPs, but from a lot | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
of Conservative MPs as well. People will wonder when this austerity will | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
end because it seems to be going on for ever. We will have more on the | :07:32. | :07:33. | |
budget later in the programme. Now, the government was defeated | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
last week in the House of Lords. Peers amended the bill that | :07:38. | :07:39. | |
will allow Theresa May to trigger Brexit to guarantee the rights of EU | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
nationals currently in the UK. The government says it will remove | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
the amendment when the bill returns But today a report from | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
the Common's Brexit committee also calls for the Government to make | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
a unilateral decision to safeguard the rights of EU | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
nationals living here. If the worst happened, | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
are we actually going to say to 3 million Europeans here, | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
who are nurses, doctors, serving us tea and coffee in restaurants, | :08:06. | :08:08. | |
giving lectures at Leeds University, picking and processing vegetables, | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
"Right, off you go"? No, of course we are not | :08:14. | :08:15. | |
going to say that. So, why not end the | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
uncertainty for them now? will help to create the climate | :08:19. | :08:20. | |
which will ensure everyone gets to say because that's | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
what all of us want. That is why we have unanimously | :08:25. | :08:34. | |
agreed this recommendation that the government should make unilateral | :08:35. | :08:41. | |
decision to say to EU citizens here, yes, you can stay, because we think | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
that is the right and fair thing to do. | :08:45. | :08:45. | |
And we're joined now from Buckinghamshire by the leader | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
of the House of Commons, David Lidington. | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
Welcome back to the programme. The House of Lords has amended the | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
Article 50 bill to allow the unilateral acceptance of EU | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
nationals' right to remain in the UK. Is it still the government was | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
my intention to remove that amendment in the comments? We have | :09:05. | :09:11. | |
always been clear that we think this bill is very straightforward, it | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
does nothing else except give the Prime Minister the authority that | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
the courts insist upon to start the Article 50 process of negotiating | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
with the other 27 EU countries. On the particular issue of EU citizens | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
here and British citizens overseas, the PM did suggest that the December | :09:32. | :09:38. | |
European summit last year that we do a pre-negotiation agreement on this. | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
That was not acceptable to all of the other 27 because they took the | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
view that you cannot have any kind of negotiation and to Article 50 has | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
been triggered. That is where we are. I hope with goodwill and | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
national self interest on all sides we can tackle this is right that the | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
start of those negotiations. But it is not just the Lords. We have now | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
got the cross-party Commons Brexit committee saying you should now make | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
the unilateral decision to safeguard the rights of EU nationals in the | :10:12. | :10:19. | |
UK. Even Michael go, Peter Lilley, John Whittington, agree. So why are | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
you so stubborn on this issue? I think this is a complex issue that | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
goes beyond the rise of presidents, but about things like the rights of | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
access to health care, to pension ratings and benefits and so on... | :10:36. | :10:42. | |
But you could settle back. It is also, Andrew, because you have got | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
to look at it from the point of view of the British citizens, well over 1 | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
million living elsewhere in Europe. If we make the unilateral gesture, | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
it might make us feel good for Britain and it would help in the | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
short term those EU citizens who are here, but you have got those British | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
citizens overseas who would then be potential bargaining chips in the | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
hands of any of the 27 other governments. We do not know who will | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
be in office during the negotiations and they may have completely | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
extraneous reasons to hold up the agreement on the rights of British | :11:22. | :11:24. | |
citizens. The sensible way to deal with this is 28 mature democracies | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
getting around the table starting the negotiations and to agree to | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
something that is fair to all sides and is reciprocal. What countries | :11:33. | :11:39. | |
might take on UK nationals living in the EU? What countries are you | :11:40. | :11:46. | |
frightened of? The one thing that I know from my own experience in the | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
past of being involved in European negotiations is that issues come up | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
that maybe have nothing to do with British nationals, but another issue | :11:57. | :12:03. | |
that matters a huge amount to a particular government, it may not be | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
a government yet in office, and they decide we can get something out of | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
this, so let's hold up the agreement on British citizens until the | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
British move in the direction we want on issue X. I hope it does not | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
come to that. I think the messages I have had from EU ambassadors in | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
London and from those it my former Europe colleague ministers is that | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
we want this to be a done deal as quickly as possible. That is the | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
British Government's very clear intention. We hope that we can get a | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
reciprocal deal agreed before the Article 50 process. That was not | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
possible. I understand that, you have said that already. But even if | :12:45. | :12:50. | |
there is no reciprocal deal being done, is it really credible that EU | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
nationals already here would lose their right to live and work and | :12:56. | :13:01. | |
face deportation? You know that is not credible, that will not happen. | :13:02. | :13:09. | |
We have already under our own system law whereby some people who have | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
been lawfully resident and working here for five years can apply for | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
permanent residency, but it is not just about residents. It is about | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
whether residency carries with it certain rights of access to health | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
care. I understand that, but have made this point. But the point is | :13:27. | :13:34. | |
the right to live and work here that worries them at the moment. The Home | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
Secretary has said there can be no change in their status without a | :13:40. | :13:45. | |
vote in parliament. Could you ever imagine the British Parliament | :13:46. | :13:47. | |
voting to remove their right to live and work here? I think the British | :13:48. | :13:54. | |
Parliament will want to be very fair to EU citizens, as Hilary Benn and | :13:55. | :14:02. | |
others rightly say they have been overwhelmingly been here working | :14:03. | :14:05. | |
hard and paying taxes and contributing to our society. They | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
were equally want to make sure there is a fair deal for our own citizens, | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
more than a million, elsewhere in Europe. You cannot disentangle the | :14:15. | :14:17. | |
issue of residence from those things that go with residents. Is the | :14:18. | :14:23. | |
Article 50 timetabled to be triggered before the end of this | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
month, is it threatened by these amendments in the Lords? I sincerely | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
hope not because the House of Lords is a perfectly respectable | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
constitutional role to look again at bills sent up by the House of | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
commons. But they also have understood traditionally that as an | :14:42. | :14:48. | |
unelected house they have to give primacy to the elected Commons at | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
the end of the day. In this case it is not just the elected Commons that | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
sent the bill to be amended, but the referendum that lies behind that. It | :14:58. | :15:06. | |
is not possible? We are confident we can get Article 50 triggered by the | :15:07. | :15:08. | |
end of the month. One of the other Lords amendments | :15:09. | :15:16. | |
will be to have a meaningful vote on the Brexit deal when it is done at | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
the end of the process, what is your view on that? What would you | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
understand by a meaningful vote? The Government has already said there is | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
going to be a meaningful vote at the end of the process. What do you mean | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
by a meaningful vote? The parliament will get the opportunity to vote on | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
the deal before it finishes the EU level process of going to | :15:41. | :15:43. | |
consideration by the European Parliament. Parliament will be given | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
a choice, as I understand, for either a vote for the deal you have | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
negotiated or we leave on WTO rules and crash out anyway, is that what | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
you mean by a meaningful choice? Parliament will get the choice to | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
vote on the deal, but I think you have put your finger on the problem | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
with trying to write something into the bill because any idea that the | :16:11. | :16:17. | |
PM's freedom to negotiate is limited, any idea that if the EU 27 | :16:18. | :16:24. | |
were to play hardball, that somehow that means parliament would take | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
fright, reverse the referendum verdict and set aside the views of | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
the British people, that would almost guarantee that it would be | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
much more difficult to get the sort of ambitious mutually beneficial | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
deal for us and the EU 27. Your idea of a meaningful vote in parliament | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
is the choices either to vote to accept this deal or we leave anyway, | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
that is your idea of a meaningful vote. The Article 50 process is | :16:52. | :16:58. | |
straightforward. There is the position of both parties in the | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
recent Supreme Court case that the Article 50 process once triggered is | :17:04. | :17:11. | |
irrevocable. That is in the EU Treaty already but we are saying | :17:12. | :17:17. | |
very clearly that Parliament will get that right to debate and vote. I | :17:18. | :17:24. | |
think the problem with what some in the House of Lords are proposing, I | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
hope it is not a majority, is that the amendments they would seek to | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
insert would tie the Prime Minister's hands, limit and | :17:34. | :17:36. | |
negotiating freedom and put her in a more difficult position to negotiate | :17:37. | :17:38. | |
on behalf of this country than should be the case. One year ago you | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
said it could take six to eight years to agree a free-trade deal | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
with the EU. Now you think you can do it in two, what's changed your | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
mind? There is a very strong passionate supporter of Remain, as | :17:55. | :18:08. | |
you know. I hope very much we are able to conclude not just the terms | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
of the exit deal but the agreement that we are seeking on the long-term | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
trade relationship... I understand that, but I'm trying to work out, | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
what makes you think you can do it in two years when only a year ago | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
you said it would take up to wait? The referendum clearly makes a big | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
difference, and I think that there is an understanding amongst real the | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
other 27 governments now that it is in everybody's interests to sort | :18:41. | :18:47. | |
this shared challenge out of negotiating a new relationship | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
between the EU 27 and the UK because European countries, those in and | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
those who will be out of the EU, share the need to face up to massive | :18:56. | :19:04. | |
challenges like terrorism and technological change. All of that | :19:05. | :19:07. | |
was pretty obvious one year ago but we will see what happens. Thank you, | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
David Lidington. Now, the Sunday Politics has had | :19:11. | :19:12. | |
sight of a major new report The thousand-page study, | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
which researchers say is the most comprehensive ever produced, | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
analyses all 269 Islamist telated terrorist offences | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
committed between 1998-2015. Most planned attacks were, | :19:27. | :19:28. | |
thankfully, thwarted, but what can we learn | :19:29. | :19:30. | |
from those offences? For the police and the intelligence | :19:31. | :19:32. | |
agencies to fight terror, Researchers at the security think | :19:33. | :19:42. | |
tank The Henry Jackson Society gave us early access to their huge | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
new report which analyses every Islamism related attack | :19:50. | :19:59. | |
and prosecution in the UK since 1998, that's 269 cases | :20:00. | :20:01. | |
involving 253 perpetrators. With issues as sensitive | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
as counterterrorism and counter radicalisation, it is really | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
important to have an evidence base from which you draw | :20:09. | :20:10. | |
policy and policing, This isn't my opinion, | :20:11. | :20:12. | |
this the facts. This chart shows the number | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
of cases each year combined with a small number | :20:17. | :20:19. | |
of successful suicide attacks. Notice the peak in the middle | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
of the last decade around the time of the 7/7 bombings | :20:24. | :20:26. | |
in London in 2005. Offences tailed off, | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
before rising again from 2010, when a three-year period accounted | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
for a third of all the terrorism cases since the researchers | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
started counting. What we are seeing is a combination | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
of both more offending, in terms of the threat increasing, | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
we know that from the security services and police statements, | :20:46. | :20:48. | |
but also I believe we are getting more efficient in terms | :20:49. | :20:50. | |
of our policing and we are actually A third of people were found to have | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
facilitated terrorism, that's providing encouragement, | :20:54. | :21:01. | |
documents, money. About 18% of people | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
were aspirational terrorists, 12% of convictions were related | :21:05. | :21:07. | |
to travel, to training And 37% of people were convicted | :21:08. | :21:14. | |
of planning attacks, although the methods have | :21:15. | :21:22. | |
changed over time. Five or six years ago, | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
we saw lots of people planning or attempting pipe bombs and most | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
of the time they had Inspire magazine in their possession, | :21:31. | :21:33. | |
that's a magazine, an Al-Qaeda English-language online | :21:34. | :21:36. | |
magazine that had specific More recently we have seen | :21:37. | :21:37. | |
Islamic State encouraging people to engage in lower tech knife | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
beheading, stabbings attacks and I think that's why we have | :21:44. | :21:45. | |
seen that more recently. Shasta Khan plotted with her | :21:46. | :21:48. | |
husband to bomb the Jewish In 2012 she received | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
an eight-year prison sentence. She's one of an increasing | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
number of women convicted of an Islamism related offence | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
although it is still overwhelmingly a crime carried out | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
by men in their 20s. Despite fears of foreign terrorists, | :22:06. | :22:08. | |
a report says the vast Most have their home in London, | :22:09. | :22:11. | |
around 43% of them. 18% lived in the West Midlands, | :22:12. | :22:19. | |
particularly in Birmingham, and the north-west is another | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
hotspot with around 10% Richard Dart lived in Weymouth | :22:24. | :22:25. | |
and tried to attend a terrorist He was a convert to Islam, as were | :22:26. | :22:32. | |
60% of the people in this report. He was a convert to Islam, as were | :22:33. | :22:41. | |
16% of the people in this report. Like the majority of cases, | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
he had a family, network. What's particularly interesting | :22:46. | :22:47. | |
is how different each story is in many ways, | :22:48. | :22:50. | |
but then within those differences So your angry young men, | :22:51. | :22:53. | |
in the one sense inspired to travel, seek training and combat experience | :22:54. | :23:01. | |
abroad, and then the older, recruiter father-figure types, | :23:02. | :23:08. | |
the fundraising facilitator types. There are types within | :23:09. | :23:10. | |
this terrorism picture, but the range of backgrounds | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
and experiences is huge. And three quarters of those | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
convicted of Islamist terrorism were on the radar of the authorities | :23:20. | :23:21. | |
because they had a previous criminal record, they had | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
made their extremism public, or because MI5 had them | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
under surveillance. To discuss the findings of this | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
report are the former Security Minister Pauline Neville-Jones, | :23:34. | :23:40. | |
Talha Ahmad from the Muslim Council of Britain, and Adam Deen | :23:41. | :23:43. | |
from the anti-extremist group The report finds the most segregated | :23:44. | :23:58. | |
Muslim community is, the more likely it is to incubate Islamist | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
terrorists, what is the MCB doing to encourage more integrated | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
communities? Its track record on calling for reaching out to the | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
wider society and having a more integrated and cohesive society I | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
think is a pretty strong one, so one thing we are doing for example very | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
recently I've seen we had this visit my mosque initiative, the idea was | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
that mosques become open to inviting people of other faiths and their | :24:27. | :24:28. | |
neighbours to come so we were encouraged to see so many | :24:29. | :24:35. | |
participating. It is one step forward. Is it a good thing or a bad | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
thing that in a number of Muslim communities, the Muslim population | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
is over 60% of the community? I personally and the council would | :24:47. | :24:49. | |
prefer to have more mixed communities but one of the reason | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
they are heavily concentrated is not so much because they prefer to but | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
often because the socio- economic reality forces them to. But you | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
would like to see less segregation? Absolutely, we would prefer more | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
diverse communities around the country. What is your reaction to | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
that? Will need more diverse communities but one of the | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
challenges we have right now with certain organisations is this | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
pushback against the Government, with its attempts to help young | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
Muslims not go down this journey of extremism. One of those things is | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
the Prevent strategy and we often hear organisations like the MCB | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
attacking the strategy which is counter-productive. What do you say | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
to that? Do we support the Government have initiatives to | :25:38. | :25:43. | |
counteract terrorism, of course we do. Do you support the Prevent | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
strategy? We don't because it scapegoats an entire community. The | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
report shows that contrary to a lot of lone wolf theories and people | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
being radicalised in their bedrooms on the Internet that 80% of those | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
convicted had connections with the extremist groups. Indeed 25% willing | :26:02. | :26:22. | |
to Al-Muhajiroun. I think this report, which is a thorough piece of | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
work, charts a long period and it is probably true to say that in the | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
earlier stages these organisations were very important, of course | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
subsequently we have had direct recruiting by IS one to one over the | :26:37. | :26:42. | |
Internet so we have a mixed picture of how people are recruited but | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
there's no doubt these organisations are recruiting sergeants. You were | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
once a member of one of these organisations, are we doing enough | :26:51. | :26:59. | |
to thwart them? If we just focus on these organisations, we will fail. | :27:00. | :27:08. | |
We -- the question is are we doing enough to neutralise them? The | :27:09. | :27:11. | |
Government strategy is in the right place, but where we need to focus on | :27:12. | :27:17. | |
is the Muslim community or communities. The Muslim community | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
must realise that these violent extremists are fringe but they share | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
ideas, a broad spectrum of ideas that penetrate deeply within Muslim | :27:28. | :27:30. | |
communities and we need to tackle those ideas because that is where it | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
all begins. Are you in favour of banning groups like Al-Muhajiroun? | :27:35. | :27:42. | |
Yes, it was the right thing to do and I can tell you the community has | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
moved a long way, Al-Muhajiroun does not have support. Do you agree with | :27:47. | :27:54. | |
that? Yes, but it is very simplistic attacking Al-Muhajiroun. ISIS didn't | :27:55. | :28:01. | |
bring about extremism, extremism brought about ISIS, ISIS is just the | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
brand and if we don't deal with the ideological ideas we will have other | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
organisations popping up. The report suggests that almost a quarter of | :28:12. | :28:18. | |
Islamist the latest offences were committed by individuals previous | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
unknown to the security services. And this is on the rise, these | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
numbers. This would seem to make an already difficult task for our | :28:28. | :28:29. | |
intelligence services almost impossible. Two points. It is over | :28:30. | :28:37. | |
80% I think were known, but it shows the intelligence services and police | :28:38. | :28:45. | |
have got their eyes open. But the trend has been towards more not on | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
the radar. That has been because the nature of the recruitment has also | :28:51. | :28:56. | |
changed and you have much more ISIS inspired go out and do it yourself, | :28:57. | :29:03. | |
get a knife, do something simple, so we have fewer of the big | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
spectaculars that ISIS organised. Now you have got locally organised | :29:09. | :29:17. | |
people, two or three people get together, do something together, | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
very much harder actually to get forewarning of that. That is where | :29:22. | :29:28. | |
intelligence inside the community, the community coming to the police | :29:29. | :29:34. | |
say I'm worried about my friend, this is how you get ahead of that | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
kind of attack. Should people in the Muslim community who are worried | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
about individuals being radicalised, perhaps going down the terrorist | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
route, should they bring in the police? Absolutely and we have been | :29:47. | :29:53. | |
consistent on telling the community that wherever they suspect someone | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
has been involved in terrorism or any kind of criminal activity, they | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
should call the police and cooperate. As the so-called | :30:01. | :30:08. | |
caliphate collapses in the Middle East, how worried should we be about | :30:09. | :30:10. | |
fighters returning here? Extremely worried. They fall into | :30:11. | :30:24. | |
three categories. You have ones who are disillusioned about Islamic | :30:25. | :30:27. | |
State. You have ones who are disturbed, and then you have the | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
dangerous who have not disavowed their ideas and who will have great | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
reasons to perform attacks. What do we do? Anyone who comes back, there | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
should be evidence looked into if they committed any crimes. But all | :30:43. | :30:49. | |
those categories should all be be radicalised. You cannot leave them | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
alone. Will we be sure if we know when they come back? That is | :30:54. | :30:59. | |
difficult to say. They could come in and we might not know. There is a | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
watch list so you have got a better chance. And you can identify them? | :31:06. | :31:13. | |
This is where working with other countries is absolutely crucial and | :31:14. | :31:16. | |
our border controls need to be good as well. I am not saying and the | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
government is not saying that anyone would ever slip through, but it is | :31:22. | :31:25. | |
our ability to know when somebody is coming through and to stop them at | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
the border has improved. An important question. Given your | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
experience, how prepared are away for a Paris style attack in a | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
medium-size, provincial city? The government has exercised this one. | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
It started when I was security minister and it has been taken | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
seriously. The single biggest challenge that the police and the | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
Army says will be one of those mobile, roving attacks. You have to | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
take it seriously and the government does. All right, we will leave it | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
Now, Brexit may have swept austerity from the front pages, | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
but the deficit hasn't gone away and the government is still | :32:07. | :32:09. | |
Just this week Whitehall announced that government departments have | :32:10. | :32:12. | |
been told to find another ?3.5bn worth of savings by 2020. | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
Last November the Independent office for Budget Responsibility | :32:18. | :32:20. | |
said the budget deficit would be ?68 billion in the current | :32:21. | :32:22. | |
It would still be ?17 billion by 2021-22. | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
On Wednesday the Chancellor is expected to announce | :32:29. | :32:31. | |
that the 2016-17 deficit has come in much lower than the OBR forecast. | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
Even so, the government is still aiming for the lowest level | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
of public spending as a percentage of national income since 2003-4, | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
coupled with an increase in the tax burden to its highest | :32:46. | :32:48. | |
So spending cuts will continue with reductions in day-to-day | :32:49. | :32:54. | |
government spending accelerating, producing a real terms cut of over | :32:55. | :32:57. | |
But capital spending, investment on infrastructure | :32:58. | :33:04. | |
like roads, hospitals, housing, is projected to grow, | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
producing a 16 billion real terms increase by 2021-22. | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
The Chancellor's task on Wednesday is to keep these fiscal targets | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
while finding some more money for areas under serious | :33:18. | :33:20. | |
pressure such as the NHS, social care and business rates. | :33:21. | :33:28. | |
We're joined now by Paul Johnson of the Institute for Fiscal Studies. | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
Welcome back to the programme. In last March's budget the OBR | :33:33. | :33:39. | |
predicted just over 2% economic growth for this year. By the Autumn | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
Statement in the wake of the Brexit vote it downgraded back to 1.4%. It | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
is now expected to revise that back around to 2% as the Bank of England | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
has again. It is speculated on the future. It looks like we will get a | :33:55. | :33:59. | |
growth forecast for this year not very different from where it was a | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
year ago. What the bank did was upgrade its forecast for the next | :34:05. | :34:07. | |
year or so, but not change very much. It was thinking about three or | :34:08. | :34:13. | |
four years' time, which is what really matters. It looked like the | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
OBR made a mistake in downgrading the growth in the Autumn Statement | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
three months ago. It was more optimistic than nearly all the other | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
forecasters and the Bank of England. It was wrong, but not as wrong as | :34:27. | :34:34. | |
everybody else. We don't know, but if it significantly upgraded its | :34:35. | :34:37. | |
growth forecast for the next three or four years, I would be surprised. | :34:38. | :34:44. | |
It also added 12 billion to the deficit for the current financial | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
year in the Autumn Statement, compared with March. It looks like | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
that deficit will probably be cut again by about 12 billion compared | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
to the last OBR forecast. It is quite difficult to make economic | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
policy on the basis of changes of that skill every couple of months. | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
That is one of the problems about having these two economic event so | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
close together. My guess is the number will come out somewhere | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
between the budget and the Autumn Statement numbers. There was a nice | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
surprise for the Chancellor last month which looked like tax revenues | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
were coming in a lot more strongly than he expected. But again the real | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
question is how much is this making a difference in the medium run? Is | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
this a one-off thing all good news for the next several years? If | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
growth and revenues are stronger, perhaps not as strong as the good | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
news last month, but if they are stronger than had been forecast in | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
the Autumn Statement, what does that mean for planned spending cuts? It | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
probably does not mean very much. Let's not forget the best possible | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
outcome of this budget will be that for the next couple of years things | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
look no worse than they did a year ago and in four years out they will | :36:01. | :36:05. | |
still look a bit worse, and in addition Philip Hammond did increase | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
his spending plans in November. However good the numbers look in a | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
couple of days' time, we will still be borrowing at least 20 billion | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
more by 2020 than we were forecasting a year ago. Still quite | :36:21. | :36:27. | |
constrained. George Osborne wanted to get us to budget surplus by 2019. | :36:28. | :36:33. | |
That has gone. Philip Hammond is quite happy with a big deficit and | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
is not interested in that. But what he is thinking to a large extent, as | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
you have made clear, there is a lot of uncertainty about the economic | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
reaction over the next three or four years. He says he wants some | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
headroom. If things go wrong, I do not want to announce more spending | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
cuts or more tax rises to keep the deficit down. I want to say things | :36:58. | :37:00. | |
have gone wrong for now and we will borrow. And I have got some money in | :37:01. | :37:06. | |
the kitty. He will not spend a lot of it now. I understand the | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
Chancellor is worried about the erosion of the tax base and it is | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
hard to put VAT up by more than 20%, millions have been taken out of | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
income tax, only 46% of people pay income tax, fuel duty is frozen for | :37:23. | :37:28. | |
ever, corporation tax has been cut, the growth in self-employed has | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
reduced revenues, is that a real concern? These are all worries for | :37:32. | :37:37. | |
him. We have as you said in the introduction to this, got a tax | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
burden which is rising very gradually, but it is rising to its | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
highest level since the mid-19 80s, but is not doing it through | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
straightforward increases to income tax. Lots of bits of pieces of | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
insurance premium tax is here and the apprenticeship levied there, and | :37:56. | :38:01. | |
that is higher personal allowance of income tax and a freeze fuel duty, | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
but at some point we will have to look at the tax system as a whole | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
and ask if we can carry on like this. We will have to start increase | :38:11. | :38:18. | |
fuel duties again, or look to those big but unpopular taxes to really | :38:19. | :38:25. | |
keep that money coming in to keep the challenges we will have over the | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
next 30 years. He is going to set up a commission on social care. He has | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
had quite a few commissions on social care. Thank you for being | :38:36. | :38:37. | |
with us. It's just gone 11.35, | :38:38. | :38:39. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :38:40. | :38:41. | |
in Scotland who leave us now Coming up here in twenty | :38:42. | :38:44. | |
minutes, the Week Ahead. Hello and welcome to | :38:45. | :38:53. | |
The Sunday Politics East. Later in the programme, | :38:54. | :38:56. | |
the fairer funding formula hitting hundreds of our schools. | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
Some do gain, but one headteacher says he will quit, | :39:02. | :39:03. | |
rather than sack any staff. I am not willing to come | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
into this profession, that I love so much, and ruin | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
children's lives. With me is Clive Lewis, | :39:13. | :39:14. | |
the Labour MP for Norwich South, who recently stood down | :39:15. | :39:16. | |
as Shadow Business Secretary And Patrick O'Flynn, | :39:17. | :39:18. | |
the Ukip MEP for the Eastern region, who once fell out with the former | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
leader, Nigel Farage. He is not the only one. | :39:23. | :39:30. | |
Douglas Carswell has all also become embroiled in a spat with the former | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
leader of the party. Nigel Farage called | :39:36. | :39:38. | |
for the resignation of the party's only MP, amid accusations that | :39:39. | :39:41. | |
Douglas Carswell failed to lobby for a knighthood for him. | :39:42. | :39:51. | |
It is something the Clacton MP The multi-millionaire who helps fund | :39:52. | :39:53. | |
Ukip, Arron Banks, then threatened to stand against Carswell | :39:54. | :39:58. | |
will at the next general election. One member of Ukip's | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
national executive had this Douglas should go off | :40:02. | :40:03. | |
and do his own thing. He was independent and did not | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
really follow the Ukip whip at all. Not that we have a whip, | :40:08. | :40:10. | |
as he is the only one there in Parliament. | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
He doesn't always go with with the general accord of the party | :40:14. | :40:15. | |
or the constitution of the party. Well, yes, I have | :40:16. | :40:26. | |
to admit, it has been My view is that Paul | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
Nuttall was elected on an overwhelming mandate | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
and on a ticket of party unity. I think he had managed | :40:35. | :40:40. | |
to establish party unity. I call on all the supporters | :40:41. | :40:43. | |
of the party and the members to get behind Paul and keep speaking | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
speaking with one voice. These noises are an | :40:49. | :40:50. | |
annoying distraction. You are talking about | :40:51. | :40:53. | |
party unity, but when Nigel Farage was the leader, | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
you called him "snivelling I don't think that | :40:58. | :40:59. | |
was quite the phrase. Do your views lie more in accord | :41:00. | :41:01. | |
with Douglas Carswell? People have said there has been far | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
too much toing and froing. As I recall, during | :41:08. | :41:17. | |
the week, Douglas has not The accusation was that | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
Douglas had gone out his way to block Nigel | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
getting a knighthood. That does not does not seem | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
to be the case, at all. Douglas did lobby for Nigel to get | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
a knighthood, but maybe made some kind of quip | :41:32. | :41:34. | |
that annoyed Nigel. This is more than just | :41:35. | :41:44. | |
the to and fro between two people. It is more about the battle | :41:45. | :41:47. | |
for the heart and mind of Ukip. We have got the anti-immigration | :41:48. | :41:50. | |
wing and we have got I do not think there | :41:51. | :41:52. | |
is an anti-immigration wing of Ukip. I think the whole party | :41:53. | :42:01. | |
wants scaled immigration. I think everyone sees immigration | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
has been far too high and we want to establish our own border system | :42:06. | :42:08. | |
and our own point system. Douglas agrees with that just | :42:09. | :42:11. | |
as much as anyone else. And on some ideas, Douglas | :42:12. | :42:13. | |
and Nigel may be more But there has been some bad blood | :42:14. | :42:16. | |
between Nigel and Douglas. If you want me to trace the cause | :42:17. | :42:24. | |
of it, I think it was the issue of which group was going to lead | :42:25. | :42:27. | |
the Leave campaign Douglas thought, as did I, | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
that Vote Leave was best equipped to That got the designation | :42:31. | :42:37. | |
and that won the referendum. We thought the Labour | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
Party had problems. More on that later, but do you think | :42:44. | :42:46. | |
what Ukip is going through That is why I am a bit | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
reluctant to get But one party, one MP | :42:50. | :42:55. | |
and multiple splits. I do not quite know | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
what has happened there. Where you are and where | :43:01. | :43:02. | |
Douglas Carswell is, is a very different place | :43:03. | :43:09. | |
to where Nigel Farage is. He is far more toxic | :43:10. | :43:12. | |
on immigration that I say that because I think, | :43:13. | :43:13. | |
he has come back from America and I think he believes the Trump | :43:14. | :43:23. | |
brand of politics, which he is very enamoured | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
with, is a good fit. There are many different | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
parts of Ukip. There are those who want wanted | :43:31. | :43:32. | |
to take back control But I think they have ridden | :43:33. | :43:35. | |
the tiger of the issue of immigration and hostility | :43:36. | :43:45. | |
to people from other countries. I think one was to | :43:46. | :43:47. | |
secure coming out of Europe and I think that is | :43:48. | :43:49. | |
where the split is now. The Conservatives are | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
the party of Brexit now. Our primary function, | :43:53. | :43:55. | |
as it was in the beginning, and Clive is right, | :43:56. | :43:57. | |
we were set up to get us out of It was an ambition that many people | :43:58. | :44:00. | |
scoffed at. Anyone who starts playing fast | :44:01. | :44:14. | |
and loose with Brexit, we are there, to use the phrase, | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
to bite them on the backside. But also, we are looking | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
at other issues. Why is so much of our money put | :44:23. | :44:24. | |
abroad for foreign aid when we have Briefly, yes or no, | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
will Carswell survive? He's a very valuable | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
member of our party. I want to move on to the plight | :44:34. | :44:36. | |
of many of the region's schools. Nearly 1,000 of them | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
are going to lose out under the government's | :44:40. | :44:42. | |
new funding formula. The idea behind the changes | :44:43. | :44:43. | |
was to create a more level But more than one-third | :44:44. | :44:46. | |
of schools here will find Under the changes, two-thirds | :44:47. | :44:49. | |
of schools could see more funding with the biggest winners, | :44:50. | :44:52. | |
Suffolk and Bedford Borough. There, more than 75% | :44:53. | :44:54. | |
of the schools will gain. In most of our authorities, | :44:55. | :45:06. | |
more than half of the schools will receive | :45:07. | :45:09. | |
a rise in funding. But at the bottom, | :45:10. | :45:10. | |
Luton and Southend. In the latter, no schools | :45:11. | :45:12. | |
will get any more money. The headteacher of one high-profile | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
school in Harlow has warned warned that he will resign, | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
rather than sack any staff under This is the school that entertained | :45:22. | :45:23. | |
millions on Educating Essex. But could the headmaster | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
of the school put himself His is one of thousands of schools | :45:30. | :45:32. | |
across the country which could see a cut in funding | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
from the government Passmores School | :45:38. | :45:39. | |
could lose ?750,000. That would mean bigger class sizes | :45:40. | :45:46. | |
and up to 20 teacher redundancies. I have already said, | :45:47. | :45:53. | |
for that particular year, I will draw the plan up to try | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
and save that money, Therefore, there will be a difficult | :45:58. | :46:00. | |
choice at some point for me and for them, in that | :46:01. | :46:06. | |
them, I will either have to leave because they are asking me | :46:07. | :46:09. | |
to do something I am not willing to do, or they will have | :46:10. | :46:12. | |
to get rid of me. I am not willing to come | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
into this profession, that I love so much, | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
and ruin children's lives. I am getting upset even thinking | :46:20. | :46:34. | |
about it. There were always going to be winners and losers. The school is | :46:35. | :46:49. | |
not alone in feeling the pressure. There are a lot of possible protests | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
coming up and at least one resignation. Under the proposed | :46:55. | :47:04. | |
changes, some schools will be given a lump some to take into account | :47:05. | :47:17. | |
previous funding and mobility. In Luton, 57 of the 59 primary schools | :47:18. | :47:26. | |
will see the budget cut. We have the greatest need is greatest | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
deprivation. We would like to think that any government would put that | :47:32. | :47:40. | |
as a priority. Teachers taking to the streets to protest has not been | :47:41. | :47:51. | |
ruled out by the council. At the end of the day, the formula is not | :47:52. | :47:57. | |
providing enough funding peer people for the schools to be able to | :47:58. | :48:03. | |
giving enough money to them. Amid giving enough money to them. Amid | :48:04. | :48:09. | |
accusations that the government has simply got near mathematics role. We | :48:10. | :48:17. | |
felt there was a big disparity across different parts of the | :48:18. | :48:23. | |
country. Are we spending the rate mode in the right places? In a place | :48:24. | :48:37. | |
like Luton with a sort of a motor of deprivation, funding cut like that | :48:38. | :48:46. | |
simply be right. The Department for Education would not give is an | :48:47. | :48:49. | |
interview, but did release a statement. | :48:50. | :49:17. | |
Two thirds of schools in the region getting more money. What is the | :49:18. | :49:29. | |
problem? In my constituency, ?40 million less will be spent. It is | :49:30. | :49:36. | |
going to have a real impact on the schools. We came second from the | :49:37. | :49:42. | |
bottom on social mobility. What we are seeing, it is busily rearranging | :49:43. | :50:00. | |
debt levels across education. This is the first cut in education that | :50:01. | :50:03. | |
we have seen for nearly three decades. It is very serious. We came | :50:04. | :50:16. | |
up with fully funded tax cuts to help education. The likes of the | :50:17. | :50:25. | |
Barnett formula, we would have looked at that again, which gives | :50:26. | :50:29. | |
disproportionate amounts of money to Scotland, the foreign aid budget. We | :50:30. | :50:38. | |
have got to a position where even the people who are benefiting | :50:39. | :50:42. | |
probably feel that they are standing still. What is the answer? Schools | :50:43. | :50:51. | |
simply need more money. Readers are going to come from? At the last | :50:52. | :50:54. | |
general election, we said what we general election, we said what we | :50:55. | :51:02. | |
would cut to fund it. We think if you invest in people, that is how | :51:03. | :51:10. | |
you boost the economy. The critical thing is that this is not just about | :51:11. | :51:16. | |
schools. It is not just about secondary schools. It affects | :51:17. | :51:19. | |
nursery schooling and primary schools. We will turn back to the | :51:20. | :51:27. | |
problems of the Labour Party. They are way behind in the opinion polls | :51:28. | :51:32. | |
on the back of two very disappointing by-election results. | :51:33. | :51:40. | |
Though is that going down with party members in the region as the pupae | :51:41. | :51:46. | |
are four important elections? -- PPO. | :51:47. | :51:58. | |
The Labour Party leader was in Cambridge launching the election for | :51:59. | :52:09. | |
the mayor. This is what he likes best, getting away from Westminster. | :52:10. | :52:17. | |
This is about hosting. Cambridge is very expensive. We need proactive | :52:18. | :52:20. | |
councils who are going to do something about that pervade hosting | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
with rental that can be afforded by people. The Labour Party has not | :52:27. | :52:40. | |
quite hit rock bottom. But the other end it worse position than they have | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
been for decades. What about their chances in the East? The | :52:46. | :52:51. | |
traditionally struggle to do well in the region. But there are places | :52:52. | :53:00. | |
like Ipswich, which is a classic swing seat. It is held by the | :53:01. | :53:06. | |
Conservatives at the moment. In this coffee shop, the CV upload of the | :53:07. | :53:14. | |
Labour Party 's record locally. We have been Labour Party members for a | :53:15. | :53:17. | |
long table. We have seen good times and bad teams. Do people ever talk | :53:18. | :53:25. | |
about Jeremy Corbyn? His name has come up. A lot of people really love | :53:26. | :53:33. | |
them, a lot of people really do not like him. It is very polarising. If | :53:34. | :53:49. | |
you speak to everyone on the doorstep, most people will say, the | :53:50. | :53:55. | |
do not have a problem with them. You will get the odd person who does not | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
like him. But that does not seem to be any agreement on how to beat | :54:01. | :54:12. | |
things better. The notion that getting Jeremy Corbyn oak-wood mean | :54:13. | :54:15. | |
that everything would be fine and dandy tomorrow is ridiculous. A lot | :54:16. | :54:21. | |
of people do not normally at the Labour Party stands any more. People | :54:22. | :54:30. | |
seem to think it changes every day. We have to appeal to the wider | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
electorate. That is where the problem is. How did he do that? You | :54:36. | :54:43. | |
have to be given any clear for your objectives are, with relation to | :54:44. | :54:50. | |
your traditional values. There are many places where the Labour Party | :54:51. | :54:58. | |
has to do well. They have high levels of Labour support in the past | :54:59. | :55:06. | |
recorded in these places. And this brings us to Clive Lewis. He stood | :55:07. | :55:20. | |
up to Jeremy Corbyn over Trident and resigned as Shadow Business | :55:21. | :55:26. | |
Secretary because of the Brexit situation. There are certain people | :55:27. | :55:34. | |
that wanted him to run to try and replace Jeremy Corbyn. But I think | :55:35. | :55:40. | |
he is not experienced enough. You do not want to do these things | :55:41. | :55:47. | |
straightaway. Most of the Labour Party did not want another | :55:48. | :55:56. | |
leadership election. They want the party to progress, but am not sure | :55:57. | :56:01. | |
how it will do. I knew going to stand? No, I have heard all the | :56:02. | :56:07. | |
stuff about telephone links be set up, websites being set up. It is | :56:08. | :56:14. | |
complete rubbish. I helped Jeremy Corbyn get elected. I resigned over | :56:15. | :56:21. | |
Europe. I resigned over Europe only. I have been quite clear we | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
understand. I have only been in Parliament two years. I would not be | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
ready. And quite frankly, I will tell you why you would not even | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
stand. Jeremy Corbyn was elected twice to lead the party. You would | :56:35. | :56:42. | |
not have go for the leader led Labour? You would never see that. If | :56:43. | :56:48. | |
a few years down the line, someone said I had the potential, that may | :56:49. | :56:55. | |
be different. You come into politics to lead your community, to stand up | :56:56. | :57:01. | |
to people. What about these websites. Argue responsible for | :57:02. | :57:11. | |
them? Not at all. I have no idea. Whether they come from. I do not | :57:12. | :57:20. | |
know who they have come from. I did not do that, but I can tell you | :57:21. | :57:30. | |
categorically it was not me. Should the responsible people be | :57:31. | :57:34. | |
investigated? I have tried to find out Ruby have set this up. The | :57:35. | :57:42. | |
initial findings are that it is a known Ukip activist. When we have | :57:43. | :57:53. | |
more information, able release it. During our previous leadership | :57:54. | :58:01. | |
issues, someone set up a Twitter account with me to be the leader, | :58:02. | :58:06. | |
which got me into that of trouble. Very similar situation. It had | :58:07. | :58:13. | |
nothing to do with me. You are not ruling out going for the Labour | :58:14. | :58:19. | |
Party leadership in the future. In 1020 years, who knows? But I support | :58:20. | :58:22. | |
the current leadership. I support Jeremy Corbyn. Most of the party | :58:23. | :58:33. | |
need to get behind the leader. Do you think he will be the next Prime | :58:34. | :58:40. | |
Minister? Yes, I do. If there was another leader Labour leadership | :58:41. | :58:49. | |
election, to the benefit? I think they would benefit from a young, | :58:50. | :59:05. | |
charismatic leader. Our party does need some sort of connection with | :59:06. | :59:14. | |
the public. As you saw in the film the, there like of direction with | :59:15. | :59:22. | |
regard to what the party policies. The policies on the national basis | :59:23. | :59:32. | |
you to change to regularly. They do not change. New policies do come | :59:33. | :59:38. | |
out. We have been through a big period of transition. What we will | :59:39. | :59:47. | |
go see and articulate is new and policies which I think our | :59:48. | :59:53. | |
investment in people lead. This is about how we can make sure that the | :59:54. | :59:58. | |
wealth of the country is spread out. Now, a quickfire look at some other | :59:59. | :00:03. | |
stories over the last seven days, Norfolk MP George Freeman | :00:04. | :00:07. | |
weathering a storm, over his comment that benefits | :00:08. | :00:12. | |
should only go to "really It prompted the Prime Minister | :00:13. | :00:14. | |
to come to his defence. My honourable friend has rightly | :00:15. | :00:25. | |
apologised for the comments that he made and I hope that this | :00:26. | :00:28. | |
whole House will Good ratings this week | :00:29. | :00:30. | |
from the independent watchdog about most of our police forces, with | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
the exception of Northamptonshire and Hertfordshire, | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
who require improvement. But Bedfordshire Police was the only | :00:37. | :00:37. | |
force in the country to be The Justice Secretary Elizabeth | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
Truss appeared before a House of Lords select committee | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
and defended herself for staying silent when judges | :00:47. | :00:48. | |
were criticised over Brexit. I think it is dangerous | :00:49. | :00:55. | |
for a government minister to be saying, "This is an acceptable | :00:56. | :00:57. | |
headline and this is not". And an 'enthusiastic' participant | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
won the MPs annual pancake race. How does it feel for | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
Labour to win something? We are getting used to it. | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
We are getting used to it. We are going to have to get | :01:12. | :01:35. | |
yesterday? I have often been called a toss. Very good. That is all we | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
have time for. And that is all from The Sunday | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
Politics all we need Crossrail as well. We will be | :01:44. | :01:50. | |
poring over the entrails of the budget next week. Thank you very | :01:51. | :01:52. | |
much indeed. So the Brexit Bill is back in | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
the Lords next week and the Lib Dems They've ordered pizza and camp beds | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
to encourage their peers to keep talking all night, | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
only to be told by the Lord's authorities that their plans fall | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
foul of health and safety laws. Laws that they probably voted for. | :02:10. | :02:21. | |
What did you make of David Liddington's remarks on the Lords | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
amendments, particularly not just the one on EU nationals, but on what | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
is regarded as a meaningful vote at the end of the process? Let's be | :02:31. | :02:37. | |
clear, as ministers like to say, the meaningful vote vote is by far the | :02:38. | :02:39. | |
biggest thing that will happen in Parliament. It puts EU citizens into | :02:40. | :02:47. | |
a tiny corner. It will decide not just who is going to have the final | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
say on this, but who the EU is negotiating with. Is it directly | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
with Theresa May or is it with Parliament? Who will decide the | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
shape of Brexit, Parliament or Theresa May? The Lords amendment is | :03:01. | :03:09. | |
just the first chapter. They have voiced Theresa May to give them a | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
veto on everything she does, and there is a possible chance in the | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
Commons could uphold this amendment. The meaningful vote amendment? The | :03:18. | :03:25. | |
meaningful vote amendment. But is it a meaningful vote if the choice is | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
to either back the deal or crash out of the deal? That is what the remain | :03:30. | :03:36. | |
supporting MPs or hardline people who want to remain fear. What they | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
want is the power to be able to send Theresa May back to the negotiating | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
table. Why is that anathema to many Brexit supporters? They believed it | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
would crucially and critically undermine Theresa May's negotiating | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
hand and also create a long period of uncertainty for business. There | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
is already great uncertainty and this could extend it. The | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
government's position is in there was a proper, meaningful vote which | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
Parliament could reject what was on offer, that would be an incentive to | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
the EU to give us a bad deal? I think that is the fear. If you are | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
saying to the people you are negotiating with that that is | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
another authority and Theresa May will have to go back and have all of | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
this approved, I think it would have a very significant undermining | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
effect on her negotiating hand. Things change from day to day. We | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
are talking about 2019 and 2018 at the earliest, but if the government | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
lost a vote on the Brexit deal, would he not have to call in someone | :04:46. | :04:53. | |
else? That is why the vote will be meaningful even if the amendment on | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
this meaningful vote will be lost. You cannot do a deal on something as | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
historic as Brexit and have Parliament against you. So, whatever | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
form this vote takes, whenever it happens, it will be hugely | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
meaningful. Whatever label that is given and if she lost it she would | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
call a general election. She could not impose it. To call a general | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
election now you need a majority of MPs which she will not have, so | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
maybe she will not get her election after all. It would be very unlike | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
Labour not to vote for an election. It would be very unlike Labour not | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
to vote for an election. The elections to Stormont have given | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
a boost to the republicans and put the long term status | :05:43. | :05:45. | |
of Northern Ireland in some doubt. Sinn Fein's leader Gerry Adams | :05:46. | :05:48. | |
spoke to reporters Yesterday was in many, | :05:49. | :05:50. | |
many ways a watershed election, and we have just started a process | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
of reflecting what it all means, but clearly the union's majority | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
in the Assembly has been ended, and the notion of a permanent | :06:00. | :06:15. | |
or a perpetual unionist majority Is he right? Is this a watershed? | :06:16. | :06:28. | |
The nationalist vote in the assembly will now come to 39 and the | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
Unionists 38. It is only one member, but it is significant. This is a | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
very serious moment and because of everything else going on with Donald | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
Trump and Brexit it is taking a while for people here to realise | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
just how significant this is. Talking to someone who only recently | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
left a significant role in Northern Ireland politics last night, they | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
said they were very worried about what this means. It is likely there | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
will be a call for some kind of international figure to chair the | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
talks to try and see if there is a way of everybody working together. | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
All sides will probably try to extract more money from the | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
Treasury, but it is a very dangerous moment. Should we regard Michelle | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
O'Neill, who has replaced Mr McGuinness as the leader, it is she | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
the First Minister death probably not quite. An interesting thought. | :07:23. | :07:30. | |
Indeed, the daughter of an IRA man, a fascinating concept in itself. But | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
there are are still a large amount of MLAs who will not give Sinn Fein | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
what they need. But what effect does this have on the legacy of the | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
prosecutions and the great witchhunts which the British | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
Government has vowed to end. There is a majority left on the Stormont | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
assembly to end those. But some would keep them going for time | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
continuing, which is a headache for Theresa May. You have now got 27 | :08:01. | :08:09. | |
Sinn Fein members, 28 DUP, then the SDLP bumps up the numbers a little | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
bit. You have got the British Government transfixed with Brexit | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
which has huge implications for the border between North and South in | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
Ireland, and the Irish government is pretty wavering as well and if there | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
is an election there, Sinn Fein could do well in the Dublin | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
parliament as well. There are a lot of moving pieces. There are and | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
there is a danger that we look at everything through the prism of | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
Brexit, but I found Friday and this weekend fascinating. Theresa May and | :08:42. | :08:47. | |
Scotland were Nicola Sturgeon is framing Brexit entirely through an | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
argument to have a second referendum on independence which she wants to | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
hold it she possibly can. And the Irish situation with the prospect of | :08:57. | :09:03. | |
a hard border with Northern Ireland voting majority to remain, quite a | :09:04. | :09:10. | |
substantial majority, again a few of the instability at the moment. That | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
We will be keeping an eye on it for sure. | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
Yesterday, US President Donald Trump tweeted allegations | :09:22. | :09:22. | |
that his predecessor, Barack Obama, had ordered | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
his phones to be tapped during the election campaign. | :09:26. | :09:27. | |
"Terrible!", Trump wrote, "Just found out that Obama | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
I'm not quite sure what McCarthyism that is. | :09:35. | :09:48. | |
He followed up with a series of tweets comparing it to Watergate. | :09:49. | :09:50. | |
"How low has President Obama gone to tap my phones during the very | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
The sacred election process, I think at one stage he said it was a dodgy | :09:57. | :10:10. | |
election process, but now it is sacred. | :10:11. | :10:11. | |
You are frightened to go to bed at night, you do not know what you are | :10:12. | :10:24. | |
going to wake up to. Completely uncharted territory here. Little | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
more than a month ago at the inauguration they were making the | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
veneer of small talk and politely shaking hands. He saw Barack Obama | :10:33. | :10:39. | |
and Michelle off on the helicopter. You do not know what is coming next. | :10:40. | :10:46. | |
Is there a scintilla of evidence to back up Donald Trump's claims? Yes, | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
there is, although he is very muddled about it all. I will | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
explain. Remember what happened to Mike Flynn, talking to the Russian | :10:56. | :11:08. | |
and Ambassador will stop they were listening. Barack Obama does not | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
sign of warrants, but somebody else did. So why on earth would you not | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
want to listen to the president elect himself in case he might also | :11:18. | :11:25. | |
be breaking the law. Does that sound to you like convincing evidence or | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
just a supposition? I think Tom should go and work for him, that is | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
the most credible interpretation I have heard for a long time. Start | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
tweeting the case for the tweet. What is interesting about this is my | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
theory is he does not really like the idea of being a president. That | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
wild press conference he gave a couple of weeks ago there was one ad | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
lib that did not get repeated which was, I suppose I am a politician | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
now, as if he was humiliated at the idea of being a president. He likes | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
being the businessman with a swagger tweeting around the clock. And | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
campaigning again. He keeps going to what looked like campaign rallies. I | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
disagree with you about him not liking being president. I think he | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
loves the idea of being the president, but the reality is so | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
frustrating on every level, finding he does not have unlimited room for | :12:24. | :12:26. | |
manoeuvre and so many things have been put in place to stop them doing | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
things he would do in the business environment. We have had two more | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
tweets from him this morning, I guess when he woke up. Who was it | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
who secretly said to the Russian president, tell Vladimir that after | :12:40. | :12:42. | |
the election I will have more flexibility? Who was that? Possibly | :12:43. | :12:50. | |
Hillary Clinton. Is it true the Democratic National committee would | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
not allow the FBI access to check server or other equipment after | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
learning it was hacked? Can that be possible? This was all an issue in | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
the campaign. He is now a president. Shall I point out the flaw in Tom's | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
theory. They were not bugging Michael Flynn's phone, it was the | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
Russian Ambassador's telephone they were barking. Mr Neil, I would never | :13:13. | :13:22. | |
contradict you on this programme. But if you suspect there was | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
criminal activity going on, as there was by Michael Flynn, why would you | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
not want to put on a tap? I don't know. That is it for today. | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
I'll be back next week here on BBC One at 11am as usual. | :13:39. | :13:41. | |
The Daily Politics is back tomorrow at midday on BBC Two. | :13:42. | :13:43. | |
But remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:44. | :13:51. |