Browse content similar to 26/02/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:39. | :00:44. | |
Theresa May still has plenty on her plate, | :00:45. | :00:45. | |
not least a battle over Brexit in the Lords. | :00:46. | :00:47. | |
But after Thursday's by-election win in Copeland, | :00:48. | :00:49. | |
the Prime Minister looks stronger than ever. | :00:50. | :00:50. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's Labour saw off Ukip in this week's other by-election, | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
but losing to the Tories in a heartland seat leaves the party | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
The leader of Scottish Labour joins me live. | :00:57. | :01:06. | |
You look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden! | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
And Donald Trump may have been mocked for talking about the impact | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
here in the east, the colour of but after riots in Stockholm this | :01:15. | :01:22. | |
here in the east, the colour of money. Businesses helped by funding | :01:23. | :01:24. | |
from the EU. In London, will the rise in council | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
tax in all but four local authorities be enough to alleviate | :01:29. | :01:29. | |
the crisis in social care? And joining me for all of that, | :01:30. | :01:36. | |
three journalists who I'm pleased to say have so far not been banned | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
from the White House. I've tried banning them | :01:40. | :01:47. | |
from this show repeatedly, but somehow they just keep getting | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
past BBC security - it's Sam Coates, We have had two crucial | :01:52. | :02:02. | |
by-elections, the results last Thursday night. It's now Sunday | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
morning, where do they believe British politics? I think it leaves | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
British politics looking as if it may go ahead without Ukip is a | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
strong and robust force. It is difficult to see from where we are | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
now how Ukip rebuilds into a credible vote winning operation. I | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
think it looks unprofessional, the campaign they fought in Stoke was | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
clearly winnable because the margin with which Labour held onto that | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
seat was not an impressive one but they put forward arguably the wrong | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
candidate, it was messy and it's hard to see where they go from here, | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
particularly with the money problems they have and even Nigel Farage | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
saying he's fed up of the party. If Isabel is right, if Ukip is no | :02:48. | :02:54. | |
longer a major factor, you look at the state of Labour and the Lib Dems | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
coming from a long way behind despite their local government | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
by-election successes, Tories never more dominant. I think Theresa May | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
is in a fascinating situation. She's the most powerful Prime Minister of | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
modern times for now because she faces no confident, formidable | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
opposition. Unlike Margaret Thatcher who in the 1980s, although she won | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
landslides in the end, often looked like she was in trouble. She was | :03:23. | :03:29. | |
inferred quite often in the build-up to the election. David Owen, Roy | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
Jenkins, Shirley Williams. And quite often she was worried. At the moment | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
Theresa May faces no formidable UK opposition. However, she is both | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
strong and fragile because her agenda is Brexit, which I still | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
think many have not got to grips with in terms of how complex and | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
training and difficult it will be for her. Thatcher faced no | :03:53. | :03:59. | |
equivalent to Brexit so she is both strong, formidably strong because of | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
the wider UK political context, and very fragile. It is just when you | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
think you have never been more dominant you are actually at the | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
most dangerous, what can possibly go wrong? I think that the money of her | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
MPs they haven't begun to think through the practicalities of Brexit | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
and she does have a working majority of about 17 in the House of Commons | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
so at any point she could be put under pressure from really | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
opposition these days is done by the two wins inside the Conservative | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
Party, either the 15 Europhiles or the bigger group of about 60 | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
Brexiteers who have continued to operate as a united and disciplined | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
force within the Conservative Party to get their agenda on the table. | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
Either of those wings could be disappointed at any point in the | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
next three and a half years and that would put her under pressure. I | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
wouldn't completely rule out Ukip coming back. The reason Ukip lost in | :04:55. | :05:01. | |
Stoke I think it's because at the moment Theresa May is delivering | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
pretty much everything Ukip figures might want to see. We might find the | :05:05. | :05:11. | |
phrase Brexit means Brexit quite anodyne but I think she is | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
convincing people she will press ahead with their agenda and deliver | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
the leave vote that people buy a slim majority voted for. Should that | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
change, should there be talk of transition periods, shut the | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
migration settlement not make people happy, then I think Ukip risks | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
charging back up the centre ground and causing more problems in future. | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
That could be a two year gap in which Ukip would have to survive. As | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
I said, Ukip is on our agenda for today. | :05:43. | :05:43. | |
Thursday was a big night for political obsessives | :05:44. | :05:45. | |
like us, with not one but two significant by-elections, | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
Ellie braved the wind and rain to bring you this report. | :05:51. | :05:57. | |
The clouds had gathered, the winds blew at gale force. | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
Was a change in the air, or just a weather system called Doris? | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
Voters in Stoke-on-Trent were about to find out. | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
It's here, a sports hall on a Thursday night | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
that the country's media reckon is the true eye of the storm. | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
Would Labour suffer a lightning strike to its very heart, | :06:21. | :06:22. | |
or would the Ukip threat proved to be a damp squib? | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
Everybody seems to think the result in Stoke-on-Trent would be close, | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
just as they did 150-odd miles away in Copeland, where the Tories | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
are counting on stealing another Labour heartland seat. | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
Areas of high pressure in both places, and some strange sights. | :06:37. | :06:44. | |
We knew this wasn't a normal by-election, and to prove it | :06:45. | :06:46. | |
there is the rapper, Professor Green. | :06:47. | :06:48. | |
Chart-toppers aside, winner of Stoke-on-Trent hit parade | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
was announced first, where everyone was so excited | :06:52. | :06:54. | |
the candidates didn't even make it onto the stage for the result. | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
And I do hereby declare that the said Gareth Snell | :06:59. | :07:01. | |
Nigel Farage has said that victory here in Stoke-on-Trent | :07:02. | :07:09. | |
But Ukip's newish leader played down the defeat, | :07:10. | :07:16. | |
insisting his party's time would come. | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
Are you going to stand again as an MP or has this | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
No doubt I will stand again, don't worry about that. | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
The politics of hope beat the politics of fear. | :07:29. | :07:37. | |
I think Ukip are the ones this weekend who have got | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
But a few minutes later, it turned out Labour had | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
Harrison, Trudy Lynn, the Conservative Party | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
That was more than 2,000 votes ahead of Labour. | :07:50. | :08:00. | |
What has happened here tonight is a truly historic event. | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
Labour were disappointed, but determined to be optimistic | :08:06. | :08:06. | |
At a point when we're 15 to 18 points behind in the polls... | :08:07. | :08:18. | |
The Conservatives within 2000 votes I think is an incredible | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
The morning after the night before, the losing parties | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
were licking their wounds and their lips over breakfast. | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
For years and years, Ukip was Nigel Farage, | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
That has now changed, that era has gone. | :08:35. | :08:41. | |
It's a new era, it is a second age for us. | :08:42. | :08:43. | |
So that needs to be more fully embedded, | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
it needs to be more defined, you know, and that will | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
We have to continue to improve in seats where we have stood. | :08:52. | :09:00. | |
As we have done here, we've improved on our 2015 result, | :09:01. | :09:02. | |
that's what important, is that we are taking steps | :09:03. | :09:05. | |
Can I be the first to come here today to congratulate | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
you on being elected the new MP for Stoke on Trent Central. | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
Jeremy Corbyn has just arrived in Stoke to welcome his newest MP. | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
Not sure he's going to Copeland later though. | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
Earlier in the day, the Labour leader had made clear he'd | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
considered and discounted some theories about the party's | :09:25. | :09:26. | |
Since you found out that you'd lost a seat to a governing | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
party for the first time since the Falklands War, | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
have you at any point this morning looked in the mirror and asked | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
yourself this question - could the problem actually be me? | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
In the end it was the Conservatives who came out on top. | :09:45. | :09:51. | |
No governing party has made a gain at a by-election | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
With the self-styled people's army of Ukip halted in Stoke, | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
and Labour's wash-out here in Copeland... | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
There's little chance of rain on Theresa May's parade. | :10:05. | :10:16. | |
In the wake of that loss in Copeland, the Scottish Labour Party | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
has been meeting for its spring conference in the | :10:20. | :10:21. | |
Yesterday, deputy leader Tom Watson warned delegates that unless Labour | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
took the by-election defeat seriously, the party's devastation | :10:27. | :10:28. | |
in Scotland could be repeated south of the border. | :10:29. | :10:31. | |
Well, I'm joined now by the leader of Scottish Labour, | :10:32. | :10:33. | |
Even after your party had lost Copeland to the Tories and with | :10:34. | :10:49. | |
Labour now trailing 16 points in the UK polls, you claim to have every | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
faith that Jeremy Corbyn would absolutely win the general election. | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
What evidence can you bring to support that? There is no doubt the | :10:57. | :11:04. | |
result in Copeland was disappointing for the Labour Party and I think | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
it's a collective feeling for everyone within the Labour Party and | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
I want to do what I can to turn around the fortunes of our party. | :11:12. | :11:14. | |
That's what I've committed to do while I have been the Scottish | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
Labour leader. This two years ago we were down the mines so to speak in | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
terms of losing the faith of working class communities across the | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
country, but we listened very hard to the message voters are sending | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
and responded to it. That's what I'm committed to doing in Scotland and | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
that's what Jeremy Corbyn is committed to doing UK wide. The | :11:37. | :11:44. | |
latest polls put Labour at 14% in Scotland, the Tories at ten points | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
ahead of you in Scotland, even Theresa May is more popular than | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
Jeremy Corbyn in Scotland. So I will try again - why are you so sure | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
Jeremy Corbyn could win a general election? What I said when you are | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
talking about Scotland is that I'm the leader of the Scottish Labour | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
Party and I take responsibility for our policies here. Voters said very | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
clearly after the Scottish Parliament election that they didn't | :12:12. | :12:14. | |
have a clear enough sense of what we stood for so I have been advocating | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
a very strong anti-austerity platform, coming up with ideas of | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
how we can oppose the cuts and invest in our future. That is | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
something Jeremy Corbyn also supports but I've also made it clear | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
this weekend that we are opposed to a second independence referendum. I | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
want to bring Scotland back together by focusing on the future and that's | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
why I have been speaking about the federal solution for the UK. I know | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
that Jeremy Corbyn shares that ambition because he is backing the | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
plans for a people's Constitutional Convention. Yes, these are difficult | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
times for the Scottish Labour Party and UK family, but I have a plan in | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
place to turn things around. It will take time though. I'm still not sure | :13:00. | :13:06. | |
why you are so sure the Labour party can win but let me come onto your | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
plan. You want a UK wide Constitutional Convention and that | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
lead to a new Federalist settlement. Is it the policy of the Labour | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
Shadow Cabinet in Westminster to carve England into federal regions? | :13:22. | :13:28. | |
What we support at a UK wide level is the people's constitutional | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
convention. I have been careful to prescribe what I think is in the | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
best interests of Scotland but not to dictate to other parts of the UK | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
what is good for them, that's the point of the people's constitutional | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
convention. You heard Tom Watson say there has to be a UK wide | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
conversation about power, who has it and how it is exercised across | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
England. England hasn't been part of this devolution story over the last | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
20 years, it is something that happened between Scotland and London | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
or Wales and London. No wonder people in England feel | :14:03. | :14:05. | |
disenfranchised from that. What evidence can you bring to show there | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
is any appetite in England for an English federal solution to England, | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
to carve England into federal regions? Have you spoken to John | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
Prescott about this? He might tell you some of the difficulties. | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
There's not even a debate about that here, Kezia Dugdale, it is fantasy. | :14:24. | :14:29. | |
I speak to John Prescott regularly. What there is a debate about is the | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
idea the world is changing so fast that globalisation is taking jobs | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
away from communities in the north-east, that many working class | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
communities feel left behind, that Westminster feels very far away and | :14:42. | :14:44. | |
the politicians within it feel remote in part of the establishment. | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
People are fed up with power being exercised somewhere else, that's | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
where I think federalism comes in because it's about bringing power | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
closer to people and in many ways it's forced on us because of Brexit. | :14:57. | :15:05. | |
We know the United Kingdom is leaving the European Union so we | :15:06. | :15:07. | |
have to talk about the repatriation of those powers from Brussels to | :15:08. | :15:10. | |
Britain. I want many of those powers to go to the Scottish parliament but | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
where should they go in the English context? It is not as things | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
currently stand the policy of the English Labour Party to carve | :15:17. | :15:19. | |
England into federal regions, correct? | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
It is absolutely the policy of the UK Labour Party to support the | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
people's Constitutional convention to examining these questions. I | :15:30. | :15:36. | |
think it is really important. You're promising the Scottish people a | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
federal solution, and you have not even squared your own party for a | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
federal solution in England. That is not true. The UK Labour Party is | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
united on this. I am going to Cardiff next month to meet with | :15:50. | :15:52. | |
Carwyn Jones and various leaders. United on a federal solution? You | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
know as well as I know it is not united on a federal solution. We | :15:58. | :16:00. | |
will have a conversation about power in this country. It is not united on | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
that issue? This is the direction of | :16:04. | :16:29. | |
travel. It is what you heard yesterday from Sadiq Khan, from Tom | :16:30. | :16:32. | |
Watson, when you hear from people like Nick Forbes who lead Newcastle | :16:33. | :16:34. | |
City Council and Labour's Local Government Association. There is an | :16:35. | :16:36. | |
appetite for talking about power. Talking is one thing. We need to | :16:37. | :16:38. | |
have this conversation across the whole of the United Kingdom, to have | :16:39. | :16:41. | |
a reformed United Kingdom. It is a conversation you're offering | :16:42. | :16:43. | |
Scotland, not the policy. Let's come onto the labour made of London. He | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
was in power for your conference. He wrote in the record yesterday, there | :16:47. | :16:48. | |
is no difference between Scottish nationalism and racism. Would you | :16:49. | :16:50. | |
like this opportunity to distance yourself from that absurd claim? I | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
think that Sadiq Khan was very clear yesterday that he was not accusing | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
the SNP of racism. What he was saying clearly is that nationalism | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
by its very nature divides people and communities. That is what I said | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
in my speech yesterday. I am fed up living in a divided and fractured | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
country and society. Our politics is forcing is constantly to pick sides, | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
whether you're a no, leave a remain, it brings out the worst in our | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
politicians and politics. All the consensus we find in the grey areas | :17:24. | :17:26. | |
is lost. That is why am standing under a banner that together we are | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
stronger. We have to come up with ideas and focus on the future. That | :17:30. | :17:47. | |
is why I agree with Sadiq Khan. He said quite clearly in the Daily | :17:48. | :17:49. | |
Record yesterday, and that the last minute he adapted his speech to your | :17:50. | :17:51. | |
conference yesterday, to try and reduce the impact, that there was no | :17:52. | :17:54. | |
difference between Scottish nationalism and racism. Your | :17:55. | :17:56. | |
colleague, and Sarwar, said that even after he had tried to introduce | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
the caveats, all forms of nationalism rely on creating eyes | :18:01. | :18:07. | |
and them. Let's call it for what it is. So you are implying that the | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
Scottish Nationalists are racist. Would you care to distance yourself | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
from that absurd claim? I utterly refute that that is what Sadiq Khan | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
said. I would never suggest that the SNP are an inherently racist party. | :18:22. | :18:28. | |
That does is a disservice. He did not see it. What he did say, | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
however, is that nationalism is divisive. You know that better than | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
anyone. I see your Twitter account. Regularly your attack for the job | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
you do as a journalist. Politics in Scotland is divided on. I do not | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
want to revisit that independence question again for that reason. As | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
leader of the Labour Party, I want to bring our country back together, | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
appeal to people who voted yes and no. That banner, together we are | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
stronger, that is where the answers lie in defaulters can be found. If | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
in response to the Mayor of London, your colleague says, let's call it | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
out for what it is, what is he referring to if he is not implying | :19:10. | :19:17. | |
that national symbol is racist? -- and that nationalism is racist? He | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
is saying that it leads to divisive politics. The Labour Party has | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
always advocated that together we are stronger. Saying something is | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
divisive is very different from saying something is racist. That is | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
what the Mayor of London said. That is what your colleague was referring | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
to. He did not. You would really struggle to quote that from the | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
Mayor of London. He talked about being divided by race. What does | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
that mean? I think he was very clear that he was talking about divided | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
politics. There is an appetite the length and breadth of the country to | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
end that divisive politics. That is what I stand for, focusing on the | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
future, bringing people back together, concentrating on what the | :20:05. | :20:06. | |
economy might look like in 20 years' time in coming up with ideas to | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
tackle it today. Thank you for joining us. | :20:11. | :20:12. | |
Thursday's win for Labour in Stoke-on-Trent Central | :20:13. | :20:14. | |
gave some relief to Jeremy Corbyn, but for Ukip leader and defeated | :20:15. | :20:16. | |
Stoke candidate Paul Nuttall there were no consolation prizes. | :20:17. | :20:19. | |
I'm joined now by Mr Nuttall's principal political | :20:20. | :20:21. | |
Welcome to the programme. Good morning. How long will Paul Nuttall | :20:22. | :20:31. | |
survivors Ukip leader, days, weeks, months? You are in danger of not | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
seeing the wood for the trees. Ukip was formed in 1993 with the express | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
purpose, much mocked, of getting Britain out of the European Union. | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
Under the brilliant leadership of Nigel Farage, we were crucial in | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
forcing a vacuous Prime Minister to make a referendum promise he did not | :20:50. | :20:56. | |
want to give. With our friends in Fort leave and other organisations. | :20:57. | :20:58. | |
Mac we know that. Get to the answer. We helped to win that referendum. | :20:59. | :21:06. | |
The iteration of Ukip at the moment that we're in, the primary purpose, | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
we are the guard dog of Brexit. Viewed through that prism, the Stoke | :21:11. | :21:16. | |
by-election was a brilliant success. A brilliant success? We had the Tory | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
candidate that had pumped out publicity for Remain, for Cameron | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
Bradley, preaching the gospel of Brexit. We had a Labour candidate | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
and we know what he really felt about Brexit, preaching the Gospel | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
according to Brexit. You lost. Well the by-election was going on, we had | :21:35. | :21:48. | |
the Labour Party in the House of Commons pass the idea of trickling | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
Article 50 by a landslide. Are passionate thing, the thing that | :21:53. | :21:54. | |
35,000 Ukip members care about the most, it is an extraordinary | :21:55. | :21:56. | |
achievement. I am very proud. What would you have described as victory | :21:57. | :21:59. | |
as? If we could have got Paul Nuttall into the House of Commons, | :22:00. | :22:01. | |
that would have been a fantastic cherry on the top. Losing was an | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
extraordinary achievement? Many Ukip supporters the Stoke was winnable, | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
but Paul Nuttall's campaign was marred by controversy, Tory voters | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
refuse to vote tactically for Ukip to beat Labour, his campaign, Mr | :22:18. | :22:25. | |
Nuttall is to blame for not winning what was a winnable seat? I do not | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
see that at all. This is counterintuitive, but Jeremy Corbyn | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
did do one thing that made it more difficult for us to win. Fantasy. | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
That was to take Labour into a Brexit position formerly. Just over | :22:40. | :22:45. | |
50 Labour MPs had voted against triggering Article 50. In political | :22:46. | :22:48. | |
terms, we have intimidated the Labour Party into backing Brexit. | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
How much good is it doing you? It comes to the heart | :22:54. | :23:07. | |
of the problem your party faces. You're struggling to win Tory | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
Eurosceptic voters. For the moment, they seem happy with Theresa May. | :23:12. | :23:13. | |
Stoke shows you're not winning Labour Brexit voters either. If you | :23:14. | :23:15. | |
cannot get the solution Tolisso labour, where does your Broad come | :23:16. | :23:17. | |
from? In terms of the by-election, it came very early for Paul. I'm | :23:18. | :23:20. | |
talking about the future. We have a future agenda, and ideological | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
argument with Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party, which is wedded to the notion | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
of global citizenship and does not recognise the nation state. We know | :23:31. | :23:33. | |
he spent Christmas sitting around campfires with Mexican Marxist | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
dreaming of global government. We believe in the nation state. We | :23:39. | :23:40. | |
believe that the patriotic working class vote will be receptive to | :23:41. | :23:47. | |
that. Your Broad went down by 9% in Cortland. In Copeland we were | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
squeezed. In Stoke, we were unable to squeeze the Tories, who are on a | :23:52. | :23:58. | |
high. Our agenda is that social solidarity is important but we | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
arrange it in this country by nation and community. We want an | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
immigration system that is not only reducing... We know what you want. I | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
do not think people do. You had a whole by-election to tell people and | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
they did not vote for you and. When Nigel Farage said it was fundamental | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
that you were winner in Stoke, he was wrong? Nigel chooses his own | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
words. I would not rewrite them. It would be a massive advantage to Ukip | :24:26. | :24:32. | |
to have a leader in the House of Commons in time to reply to the | :24:33. | :24:34. | |
budget, Prime Minister's questions and all of that. But we have taken | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
the strategic view that we will fight the Labour Party for the | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
working class vote. It is also true that the Conservatives will make a | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
pitch for the working class vote might as well. All three parties | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
have certain advantages and disadvantages. As part of that page, | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
Nigel Farage said that your leader, Paul Nuttall, should have taken a | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
clear, by which I assume he meant tough, line on immigration. Do you | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
agree? He took a tough line on immigration. He developed that idea | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
at our party conference in the spring. Nigel Farage did not think | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
so? Nigel Farage made his speech before Paul Nuttall made his speech. | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
He said this in the aftermath of the result. Once we have freedom to | :25:18. | :25:25. | |
control and Borders, Paul wants to set up an immigration system that | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
includes an aptitude test, do you have skills that the British economy | :25:30. | :25:36. | |
needs, but also, and attitudes test, do you subscribe to core British | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
values such as gender equality and freedom of expression? We will be | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
making these arguments. It is certainly true that Paul's campaign | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
was thrown off course by, particularly something that we knew | :25:50. | :25:51. | |
the Labour Party had been preparing to run, the smear on the untruths, | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
the implications about Hillsborough. If you knew you should have | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
anticipated it. Alan Banks, he helps to bankroll your party, he said that | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
Mr Nuttall needs to toss out the Tory cabal in Europe, by which he | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
means Douglas Carswell, Neil Hamilton. Should they be stripped of | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
their membership? Of course not. As far as I knew, Alan Banks was a | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
member of the Conservative Party formally. I do not know who this | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
Tory cabal is supposed to be. He says that your party is more like a | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
jumble sale than a political party. He says that the party should make | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
him chairman or they will work. What do you see to that? He has made that | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
statement several times over many months, including if you do not | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
throw out your only MP. Douglas Carswell has managed to win twice | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
under Ukip colours. Should Tibi chairman? I think we have an | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
excellent young chairman at the moment. He is doing a good job. The | :26:51. | :26:57. | |
idea that Leave.EU was as smooth running brilliant machine, that does | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
not sit with the facts as I understand them. Suzanne Evans says | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
it would be no great loss for Ukip if Mr Banks walked out, severed his | :27:08. | :27:11. | |
ties and took his money elsewhere. Is she right. I am always happy | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
people who want to give money and support your party want to stay in | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
the party. The best donors donate and do not seek to dictate. If they | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
are experts in certain fields, people should listen to their views | :27:26. | :27:28. | |
but to have a daughter telling the party leader who should be party | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
chairman, that is a nonstarter. You have described your existing party | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
chairman is excellent. He said it could be 20 years before Ukip wins | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
by-election. Is he being too optimistic? There is a general | :27:44. | :27:46. | |
election coming up in the years' time. We will be aiming to win seats | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
in that. Before that, we will be the guard dog for Brexit, to make sure | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
this extraordinary achievement of a little party... You are guard dog | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
without a kennel, you cannot get seat? We're keeping the big | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
establishment parties to do the will of the people. If we achieve nothing | :28:05. | :28:10. | |
else at all, that will be a magnificent achievement. Thank you | :28:11. | :28:11. | |
very much. Sweden isn't somewhere | :28:12. | :28:13. | |
we talk about often should because this | :28:14. | :28:14. | |
week it was pulled into the global spotlight, | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
thanks Last weekend, Mr Trump was mocked | :28:19. | :28:18. | |
for referring to an incident that had occurred last night in Sweden | :28:19. | :28:28. | |
as a result of the country's open Critics were quick to point out that | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
no such incident had occurred and Mr Trump later clarified | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
on Twitter and he was talking about a report he had | :28:36. | :28:37. | |
watched on Fox News. But as if to prove | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
he was onto something, next day a riot broke out | :28:42. | :28:43. | |
in a Stockholm suburb with a large migrant population, | :28:44. | :28:45. | |
following unrest in such areas So what has been Sweden's | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
experience of migration? In 2015, a record 162,000 people | :28:49. | :28:58. | |
claimed asylum there, the second That number dropped to 29,000 | :28:59. | :29:00. | |
in 2016 after the country introduced border restrictions and stopped | :29:01. | :29:07. | |
offering permanent Tensions have risen, | :29:08. | :29:09. | |
along with claims of links to crime, although official statistics do not | :29:10. | :29:17. | |
provide evidence of a refugee driven Nigel Farage defended Mr Trump, | :29:18. | :29:19. | |
claiming this week that migrants have led to a dramatic rise | :29:20. | :29:28. | |
in sexual offences. Although the country does | :29:29. | :29:31. | |
have the highest reported rate of rape in Europe, | :29:32. | :29:33. | |
Swedish authorities say recent rises were due to changes to how rape | :29:34. | :29:35. | |
and sex crimes are recorded. Aside from the issue of crime, | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
Sweden has struggled Levels of inequality between natives | :29:41. | :29:43. | |
and migrants when it comes Unemployment rates are three times | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
higher for foreign-born workers We're joined now by Laila Naraghi, | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
she's a Swedish MP from the governing Social Democratic Party, | :29:53. | :30:04. | |
and by the author and The Swedish political establishment | :30:05. | :30:21. | |
was outraged by Mr Trump's remarks, pointing to a riot that hadn't taken | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
place, then a few nights later serious riots did break out in a | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
largely migrant suburb of Stockholm so he wasn't far out, was he? I | :30:29. | :30:34. | |
think he was far out because he is misleading the public with how he | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
uses these statistics. I think it is important to remember that the | :30:41. | :30:42. | |
violence has decreased in Sweden for the past 20 years and research shows | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
there is no evidence that indicate that immigration leads to crime and | :30:47. | :30:55. | |
so I think it is far out. The social unrest in these different areas is | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
not because of their ethical backgrounds of these people living | :31:00. | :31:02. | |
there but more about social economic reasons. OK, no evidence migrants | :31:03. | :31:10. | |
are responsible for any kind of crime? This story reminds me after | :31:11. | :31:16. | |
what happened to the Charlie Hebdo attacks in Paris when also a Fox | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
News commentator said something that was outlandish about Paris and the | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
Mayor of Paris threatened to sue Fox News, saying you are making our city | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
look bad. It's a bit like that because the truth on this lies | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
between Donald Trump on the Swedish authorities on this. Sweden and | :31:36. | :31:38. | |
Swedish government is very reluctant to admit any downsides of its own | :31:39. | :31:44. | |
migration policy and particularly the migration it hard in 2015 but | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
there are very obvious downsides because Sweden is not a country that | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
needs a non-skilled labour force which doesn't speak Swedish. What | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
was raised as the matter of evidence, what is the evidence? | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
First of all if I can say so the rape statistics in Sweden that have | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
been cited are familiar with the rape statistics across other | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
countries that have seen similar forms of migration. Danish | :32:14. | :32:15. | |
authorities and the Norwegian authorities have recorded a similar | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
thing. It is not done by ethnicity so we don't know. And this is part | :32:22. | :32:28. | |
of the problem. It is again a lot of lies and rumours going about. When | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
it is about for example rape, it is difficult to compare the statistics | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
because in Sweden for example many crimes that in other countries are | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
labelled as bodily harm or assault are in Sweden labelled as rape. Also | :32:43. | :32:48. | |
how it is counted because if a woman goes to the police and reports that | :32:49. | :32:54. | |
her husband or boyfriend has raped her, and done it every night for one | :32:55. | :33:03. | |
year, in Sweden that is counted as 365 offences. Something is going | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
wrong, I look at the recent news from Sweden. Six Afghan child | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
refugees committed suicide in the last six months, unemployment among | :33:12. | :33:13. | |
recent migrants now five times higher than among non-migrants. We | :33:14. | :33:20. | |
have seen gang violence in Malmo where a British child was killed by | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
a grenade, rioting in Stockholm. Police in Sweden say there are 53 | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
areas of the country where it is now dangerous to patrol. Something has | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
gone wrong. Let me get back to what I think is the core of this debate | :33:37. | :33:42. | |
if I may and that is the right for people fleeing war and political | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
persecution to seek asylum, that is a human right. In Sweden we don't | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
think we can do everything, but we want to live up to our obligation, | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
every country has an obligation to receive asylum seekers. But you have | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
changed your policy on that because having taken 163,001 year alone, you | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
have then closed your borders, I think very wisely, closed the border | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
which means 10,000 people per day at one point were walking from Denmark | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
in to Malmo, you rightly changed that so he realised whatever ones | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
aspirations in terms of asylum, it sometimes meets reality and Sweden | :34:20. | :34:22. | |
is meeting the reality of this. Let's respond to that. We are not | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
naive, we know we cannot do everything but we want to try to do | :34:29. | :34:31. | |
our share as we think other countries also need to do their | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
share. But let me say that, if you look at what the World Economic | :34:37. | :34:39. | |
Forum is saying about our country they show we are in the top of many | :34:40. | :34:44. | |
rankings, the best country to live in, to age in, to have children in, | :34:45. | :34:53. | |
to start into -- to start enterprise. Why have you not been so | :34:54. | :35:00. | |
good at integrating migrants? The unemployment rate is five times | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
higher among migrants than non-migrants and that's the highest | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
ratio of any country in the EU and the OECD, why have you not been able | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
to integrate the people you have brought in for humanitarian reasons? | :35:13. | :35:18. | |
I'm sure there are things we can do much better of course but if you | :35:19. | :35:21. | |
look for example at the immigration that came in the 90s from the | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
Balkans, they are well integrated and contributing to our society. | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
They are starting enterprises and working in different fields of | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
society, and they help our country. Why have they not got jobs, the | :35:35. | :35:43. | |
migrants that have come in? It takes time. In the 90s we managed it and | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
I'm sure we can do it again. Can I put this into some context, it is | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
clear Sweden has got problems as a result of the number of migrants | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
that come in, whether it is as bad as Mr Trump and others make out is | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
another matter, but perhaps I can put it into context. Malmo, which | :36:01. | :36:05. | |
has been at the centre of many of these migrant problems, its homicide | :36:06. | :36:12. | |
rate is three per hundred thousand. Chicago, 28 per 100,000. It may have | :36:13. | :36:18. | |
problems but they are not huge. No, they are pretty huge and I think | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
they will grow. The Balkan refugees into Sweden in the 90s did bring a | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
lot of problems and Sweden did for the first time see serious ethnic | :36:27. | :36:32. | |
gang rivalries. There was an upsurge in gang-related violence that has | :36:33. | :36:37. | |
gone on since. The situation in Malmo in particular is exaggerated | :36:38. | :36:40. | |
by some people, there's no doubt about that, I have been there many | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
times and it is undoubtedly exaggerated by some, it is also | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
vastly unpersuaded by the Swedish authorities. -- understated. In | :36:51. | :37:00. | |
2010, one in ten Jews in Malmo registered some form of attack on | :37:01. | :37:09. | |
them. It got so bad that in 2010 people offered to escort Jews... You | :37:10. | :37:14. | |
have had a good say and I have got to be fair here, what do you say to | :37:15. | :37:21. | |
that, Laila Naraghi? There are people trying to frame our country | :37:22. | :37:24. | |
in a certain way to push their own agenda. I regret that President | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
Trump is trying to slander our country. But what about the specific | :37:29. | :37:35. | |
point on Malmo? If you speak to people in Malmo and also to | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
different congregations, they say they are working together with the | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
authorities to improve this. I say again, there are a lot of people | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
trying to spread rumours and lies. Your situation is very like the | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
situation we had in Britain when we have these situations in Rotherham | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
and elsewhere. 1400 girls were raped in Rotherham before police even | :37:59. | :38:01. | |
admitted it was going on. That happened in Britain in the last | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
decade, a similar phenomenon. An upsurge in particularly sexual and | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
other forms of violence and then total denial by an entire political | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
class is now something that is happening in Sweden. I see it in | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
Swedish authorities and the denial that comes up and the desire to | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
laugh and dismiss Trump but he's not answer nothing and that's a painful | :38:24. | :38:26. | |
thing for any society to want to admit to. There are number of Swedes | :38:27. | :38:36. | |
who think the establishment is covering up the true statistics, | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
that you don't break crime down by ethnic crimes, people are suspicious | :38:42. | :38:44. | |
of the centre-left and centre-right parties now in Sweden. There is no | :38:45. | :38:50. | |
denial and no cover-up. This is what I'm speaking about when I say people | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
are trying to frame it in a certain way. The social unrest is not | :38:55. | :38:57. | |
because of the ethnical background of the people living there but | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
rather because of different socioeconomics conditions. There is | :39:03. | :39:05. | |
no research that shows immigration... But you don't do the | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
research into it. Swedish authorities deliberately ensure you | :39:12. | :39:14. | |
cannot carry out such research and after the attacks in Cologne in 2015 | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
it was the first time then that the Swedish authorities and press | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
admitted that similar sexual molestation have been going on for | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
years in Sweden. Is it right to think, given the problem is maybe | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
not as bad as many people make out but clearly problems, given these | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
problems, is the age of mass asylum seeking for Sweden over? You have | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
cut the numbers by 80% coming in last year compared with 2015, is it | :39:45. | :39:47. | |
over while you concentrate on getting right the people that you | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
have there already? We want to do our share, we have done a lot and | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
now we are concentrating of course on integration and making sure | :39:57. | :39:58. | |
people get a job, and also on big welfare investments because | :39:59. | :40:14. | |
it's important to remember that for eight years Sweden were governed by | :40:15. | :40:16. | |
a government that prioritised big tax cuts instead of investment in | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
welfare. It may just not work. I am grateful to you both, we have to | :40:20. | :40:21. | |
leave it there. It's coming up to 11:40am, | :40:22. | :40:22. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :40:23. | :40:24. | |
in Scotland, who leave us now the Week Ahead, when we'll be asking | :40:25. | :40:27. | |
if the Government is facing defeat Welcome to Sunday Politics East. | :40:28. | :40:49. | |
Later in the programme, business rate rises, a threat to our High | :40:50. | :40:55. | |
Street or a storm in a teacup? The government may be claiming that | :40:56. | :40:58. | |
business rates are going down, but certainly, that isn't our | :40:59. | :41:01. | |
experience. With us today, Bernard Jenkin, the | :41:02. | :41:04. | |
Conservative MP for Harwich and North Essex, and Alex Maier, who | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
replaced Richard Howitt as the Labour member of the European | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
We are starting with funding from We are starting with funding from | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
the EU. Of course, when we leave the EU, we won't be getting any more of | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
its regional grants and investment, and this week, we have some idea | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
what that might mean. According to a report for one of our business | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
organisations, more than ?4 billion in grants has come to this region | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
over the last ten years. That does not include CAP payments to farmers. | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
The report warns in the short term, at least, we are unlikely to see | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
similar levels of funding for business, infrastructure and social | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
development once we have left the. Here is Andrew Sinclair. | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
If you want an idea of the difference that EU funding has made, | :41:52. | :41:56. | |
take a look at this printing firm in Ipswich. It makes colour sampling | :41:57. | :42:03. | |
cards for paint companies and was struggling to expand, but a ?67,000 | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
grant from the Growing Business Fund meant that last year, it could move | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
to new premises and take on extra staff. | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
It was very important, because it enabled us to fit out to a much | :42:16. | :42:18. | |
higher standard than we would have done and enabled us to move two | :42:19. | :42:21. | |
units into one at an earlier stage than we would have done. | :42:22. | :42:24. | |
If you haven't been able to get this grand? We would probably still be | :42:25. | :42:31. | |
working out of two unit! Across the eastern region, large | :42:32. | :42:34. | |
towns, rural communities, high-tech research parks, along with roads and | :42:35. | :42:40. | |
other transport projects have benefited from EU funding. But what | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
will happen when we leave? This report, commissioned by the New | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
Anglia Lep, and written by the East of England Brussels office, makes | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
sobering reading. It finds that in the last decade, just two of our | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
counties, Norfolk and Suffolk, have received ?1.9 billion of EU | :42:59. | :43:01. | |
investment, which together with other grants, brought in a total of | :43:02. | :43:10. | |
?7.3 billion. And figures for other parts of the region are even higher. | :43:11. | :43:13. | |
And the report warns that it cannot see how a lot of this funding will | :43:14. | :43:15. | |
be replaced. investment bank, it may be possible | :43:16. | :43:25. | |
we will continue to be able to borrow from the investment bank. As | :43:26. | :43:32. | |
for the range of other programmes, University funding, agricultural | :43:33. | :43:34. | |
funding, local growth funding, how that is to be decided is essentially | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
a domestic issue, and something we don't know yet. | :43:39. | :43:41. | |
During the referendum, the Leave campaign argued that because we send | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
there would be enough money to, yes, there would be enough money to, yes, | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
help the NHS, but also to help the little people these projects going | :43:51. | :43:53. | |
after Brexit. But could some of them get the chop? The report says that | :43:54. | :44:01. | |
it could depend on the whims of future government. | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
At the moment, funding runs over seven years, which could run over | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
two parliamentary terms in the UK and European parliaments, so you can | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
remove some of the politics of agricultural and research funding, | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
of growth funding. That will become a politicised issue now, I think, in | :44:18. | :44:24. | |
future UK elections. This is not finished, but it is | :44:25. | :44:26. | |
nearly there. Here is another beneficiary of EU | :44:27. | :44:27. | |
funding. On the Norfolk- Suffolk funding. On the Norfolk- Suffolk | :44:28. | :44:33. | |
border, Hannah has opened a winery. They have planted vineyard. The | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
fund allowed her and her husband to fund allowed her and her husband to | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
invest in processing equipment and they will surely' to Mac is centre. | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
Banks would not fund us because we are a new business. We fit the bill | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
because we are going to be boosting because we are going to be boosting | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
tourism in the area, and employing local people here and having a local | :44:56. | :45:02. | |
supply chain. As long as we are in the EU, we are entitled to apply for | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
funds for projects like this. But there is another problem. The | :45:07. | :45:09. | |
current EU funding period ends in early 2021. That is nearly two years | :45:10. | :45:14. | |
after we have left EU, and so that means that not all the money that | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
has currently been promised to the east will be given to us. The | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
Chancellor has agreed to fund all EU projects to the end of very great | :45:24. | :45:30. | |
term, but after that, he has been noncommittal, and with the head of | :45:31. | :45:33. | |
the European Commission warning this week that we will pay a heavy price | :45:34. | :45:38. | |
for leaving the EU, the region's business community is concerned. | :45:39. | :45:40. | |
We want to work with government and other colleagues to ensure money is | :45:41. | :45:43. | |
still available to support economic growth in our counties. | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
You can't be sure that it will be. We can't be sure that it will be, | :45:48. | :45:54. | |
but it is certainly, we believe, a priority to protect funding in | :45:55. | :45:56. | |
science and innovation, to protect science and innovation, to protect | :45:57. | :45:59. | |
funding for farming communities. And also to protect funding. | :46:00. | :46:08. | |
More than 1000 projects have benefited from EU support in this | :46:09. | :46:11. | |
region. The business community would like to know what happens next. | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
Bernard Jenkin, what does happen next? | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
Well, Lott needs to happen next, and it is a report where two things need | :46:22. | :46:31. | |
to be borne in mind. Globally, the UK gets twice as much money to the | :46:32. | :46:38. | |
European Union than what we get back, and once we have left the | :46:39. | :46:41. | |
European Union, we're not going to be short of money. We have more | :46:42. | :46:44. | |
money available, and people like me why do we want our fair share for | :46:45. | :46:50. | |
our region. And the second point is that this money will be under our | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
control. It will be cheaper to administer because we won't go | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
through the bureaucracy, and for example, agriculture is exactly the | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
same. We will need to create, probably, and agriculture bill to | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
create a UK agricultural policy through which the government will | :47:08. | :47:10. | |
provide support for agriculture, but these things have not been done and | :47:11. | :47:13. | |
I can quite understand people are feeling a bit uncertain about it. | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
And it is the uncertainty, isn't it? Don't we have to put our cards on | :47:19. | :47:21. | |
the table and say yes, you will get this money? | :47:22. | :47:24. | |
Yes, I think we do, but regional and structural funds, which is what the | :47:25. | :47:30. | |
programme is about, these are for the whole nation, and we will need | :47:31. | :47:37. | |
to agree a framework not just for England but with the Scottish and | :47:38. | :47:40. | |
Northern Ireland government and with the Welsh government, and I hope it | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
is going to be a joint cooperative framework. So I think there is an | :47:45. | :47:47. | |
opportunity to make sure it is anchored in a longer-term | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
perspective than just one general election to the next Westminster, | :47:53. | :47:55. | |
that it will have more permanence to it. | :47:56. | :47:57. | |
Now you are at the EU Parliament, does this get talked about? | :47:58. | :48:01. | |
Absolutely, and it is talked about right across our region. I am really | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
concerned about this European funding disappearing. | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
When you talk to people, what do When you talk to people, what do | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
they say about this? They recognise the benefits that | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
European funding brings two regions, and specifically two regions. The | :48:19. | :48:25. | |
Suffolk, Devonshire Cambridgeshire, Suffolk, Devonshire Cambridgeshire, | :48:26. | :48:28. | |
and that is one of the big concerns people have got, is that yes, there | :48:29. | :48:31. | |
will be different money available, but will be invested in our region? | :48:32. | :48:36. | |
And what will happen to the collaborative work that goes on the | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
moment. I was in Great Yarmouth yesterday, talking to a local arts | :48:41. | :48:43. | |
company, and one of the things that they really benefit from is not just | :48:44. | :48:47. | |
the money was also the fact that they can work with other European | :48:48. | :48:52. | |
partners and share practice. People who collaborate with European | :48:53. | :48:55. | |
countries are still going to do that, aren't they? | :48:56. | :48:58. | |
I think you were more difficult, because funding programmes at the | :48:59. | :49:01. | |
moment really encourage that, and it will be tougher post-Brexit. -- I | :49:02. | :49:04. | |
think it will be more difficult. I don't quite understand the point | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
you are making. The fact is that this money, twice as much money, | :49:10. | :49:12. | |
will now be under our control after we have left, and it is about | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
collaboration with our European partners, though and will be less | :49:18. | :49:23. | |
easy for companies here to collaborate two no, it will be just | :49:24. | :49:25. | |
the same. We collaborate globally across the | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
world with companies and universities and science, and all | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
these things are global things. The idea that the only way you can | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
cooperate in Europe is through the EU, I mean, it is going to change, | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
it is going to be different, and that is what I think people find, if | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
they are people who are used to what they have got, it will change, but | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
there's no reason why there should be just as much collaboration across | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
frontiers in the European Union. -- in Europe. | :49:56. | :49:57. | |
And the political perspective on this, what are you hearing from your | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
perspectives on the European Parliament? -- your colleagues? | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
They are worried about the European project as a whole, I would say. | :50:05. | :50:09. | |
Brexit is not what is on everyone's... . If you are German, | :50:10. | :50:14. | |
you will by German elections, if you are French, about Marine Le Pen. I | :50:15. | :50:18. | |
don't think Brexit is a top pirated for the politicians in Europe. -- | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
top priority. That will make a really difficult for Britain to get | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
a good deal, and I see no reason we will get a better deal outside of | :50:28. | :50:30. | |
Europe than we did when we were in it. | :50:31. | :50:33. | |
Unless, of course, all those other countries do what we have done? | :50:34. | :50:40. | |
And leave. Yes. You are absolutely right. I think | :50:41. | :50:46. | |
the way that Europe has, the way the EU is becoming preoccupied with the | :50:47. | :50:48. | |
very intractable problems in the Eurozone is very difficult. You | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
might finish up without any deal at all, and I think we have to be | :50:54. | :50:55. | |
prepared for that. I agree. Let's move on. MPs from | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
across the region have been campaigning for the government to | :51:00. | :51:02. | |
give more help to companies here that are facing a big increase in | :51:03. | :51:03. | |
their business rates. There are sharp increases in some | :51:04. | :51:09. | |
places, but that is not the case everywhere. | :51:10. | :51:12. | |
Across the region, the only places facing an overall increase in North | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
Norfolk, the Cambridge area, and Forest Heath. In each case, the rise | :51:17. | :51:23. | |
will be 2%. Everywhere else, there will be at the crease. Up to 12% in | :51:24. | :51:29. | |
Stevenage and 13% in Bedford. But even in areas where on average, | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
rates will fall, some businesses will be facing an increase, and some | :51:35. | :51:37. | |
of those will be big. We were anticipating that they would | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
approximately double, but in fact, they have gone up by more than three | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
times. The government may claim that business rates are going down, but | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
certainly, that isn't our experience, and I very much doubt | :51:50. | :51:53. | |
that it is the experience of many small businesses. | :51:54. | :51:55. | |
Others believe they can cope with the changes. | :51:56. | :51:58. | |
We are currently paying about 2870 in our business rates, and based on | :51:59. | :52:04. | |
what I have seen on valuation, I think it will go up modestly to | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
We are quite lucky here is a company We are quite lucky here is a company | :52:09. | :52:11. | |
that it hasn't been extraordinary. We look at other people, and they | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
are jumping up and down a bit at this moment. | :52:16. | :52:18. | |
And there are some hotspots like Southwold in Suffolk, where the | :52:19. | :52:23. | |
rates and the shop will go up from ?2000 a year to nearly 12,000. | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
At the moment, I pay myself only the minimum wage. I pay myself ?10,000 a | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
year. Everything I make goes back into the business, so we are looking | :52:33. | :52:36. | |
at potentially decisions about people that I employ, decisions | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
about where money is invested in the business. | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
Suffolk Coastal, which includes Suffolk Coastal, which includes | :52:47. | :52:52. | |
Southwold. She was one of the few MPs who went to see the Chancellor | :52:53. | :52:55. | |
of the Exchequer Philip Hammond this week. | :52:56. | :52:55. | |
We address the particular issues We address the particular issues | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
involving towns, and small High Street, which have seen a reduction | :53:00. | :53:05. | |
in popularity. It is fair to say, I think, the Chancellor recognises | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
some of the challenges, but also, we exchanged thoughts on what could be | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
done to try and tackle this particular situation that we are | :53:14. | :53:15. | |
experiencing in places like Southwold and Aldborough. While I | :53:16. | :53:21. | |
recognise that councils have the opportunity to offer discounts, I | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
also understand they -- their resources are somewhat constrained. | :53:28. | :53:29. | |
Think it is there to say the Chancellor was obviously in | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
listening mode and I know you took away the figures, and certainly, | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
when I saw him the following day, he said he was using them in the | :53:38. | :53:40. | |
Treasury to look at further analysis on this particular issue. | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
What would you like him to do? I don't want to pre-empt the budget. | :53:46. | :53:49. | |
I would like him to really consider the role of the mixed High Street. A | :53:50. | :53:57. | |
lot of these traders have done what we asked for and improved and | :53:58. | :54:00. | |
enhance the High Street, but I put across very strongly the points that | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
traders have made to me directly, that this is not just about the | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
summertime, when these places are bustling and booming, but also, they | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
may provide a service year-round to residents, and I thing that really | :54:15. | :54:17. | |
needs reinforcing, which I was happy to do on their behalf. | :54:18. | :54:22. | |
In your constituency, quite a few places will see a rise, but across | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
the East, a a lot of businesses will see a reduction in their business | :54:27. | :54:29. | |
rate. That's right, nationally, three | :54:30. | :54:32. | |
quarters of businesses will see either a forlorn no change, and I am | :54:33. | :54:37. | |
really pleased that a lot of businesses will benefit. However, | :54:38. | :54:43. | |
there are some extremes at one end, and Southwold in particular, where | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
the average increase on the High Street were rateable values is 177%, | :54:48. | :54:53. | |
those independent small traders that those independent small traders that | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
I wanted to really go and make the I wanted to really go and make the | :54:58. | :54:59. | |
case of the Chancellor to see if there is any way he can provide them | :55:00. | :55:03. | |
with some help in the forthcoming changes. | :55:04. | :55:06. | |
Is there a temptation that hard up councils will actually be finding | :55:07. | :55:09. | |
ways to put up business rates more than they should? | :55:10. | :55:13. | |
I don't think it is in councils' interest to try and price are | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
businesses from their area. Far from the case, it is in their interest to | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
bring in new businesses into the area, and I'm glad that is what has | :55:22. | :55:24. | |
happened in East Suffolk, where we are seeing new businesses continuing | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
to be established. How easy do you think it is to do it | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
with online businesses? Well, I think this is one issue that | :55:33. | :55:38. | |
retailers are raising regularly. We already have a situation where | :55:39. | :55:40. | |
online businesses will be taxed on online businesses will be taxed on | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
corporation tax, and they would argue that they are not, how can I | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
elements to bring people to their elements to bring people to their | :55:50. | :55:52. | |
particular business. People access particular business. People access | :55:53. | :55:55. | |
that through the internet. I don't pretend I have the answers on a | :55:56. | :56:01. | |
brand-new way to generate the revenue that business rates does | :56:02. | :56:04. | |
today, but I think the Chancellor is open to ideas on that. | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
I was speaking to a small independent businessmen today whose | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
rent has gone up from antiquity and his business rates are going up, and | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
he is just closing the door. That is going to happen, isn't it, in some | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
places? -- his rent has gone up exponentially. | :56:25. | :56:27. | |
That is sad to hear, and some of the work I have been doing with their | :56:28. | :56:29. | |
MPs to raise the issue with the Chancellor, as well as meeting | :56:30. | :56:33. | |
previous finance ministers, named due to meet Sergei Javad again next | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
week, is to raise the potential consequences of this. That said, we | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
need to make sure that we want to encourage landlords to be | :56:43. | :56:43. | |
responsible and the rent increases responsible and the rent increases | :56:44. | :56:46. | |
they put on people, recognising that, as I say, other costs will | :56:47. | :56:50. | |
follow from that, and we don't want to see empty high streets. | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
Thank you very much. Bernard Jenkin, don't we have to | :56:56. | :56:58. | |
find another way of doing this? Well, I wrote a pamphlet is 20 years | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
ago, when John Major was Prime Minister, and we had a rating | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
revaluation, and there was a huge row, and the government went into | :57:08. | :57:09. | |
retreat and fought all over again. Here we are 20 years later going | :57:10. | :57:13. | |
through exactly the same thing, and it is an outdated tax, one that was | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
invented before the internet, before cars were invented, before... I | :57:20. | :57:25. | |
think trains may have been around. But it is such a different world we | :57:26. | :57:28. | |
live in now, I'm not sure it is a really good basis. Obviously, we | :57:29. | :57:35. | |
must have some property taxes, or a property tax of some kind, but this | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
seems to be very perverse, particularly because businesses that | :57:40. | :57:41. | |
make his excess of their businesses and therefore put up the value of | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
their premises, they are the ones you get punished. | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
The online business thing is a difficult area as well, isn't it? | :57:50. | :57:53. | |
Yes, it is difficult to find a way of taxing those kind of online | :57:54. | :57:57. | |
companies, but what I think we have seen at the moment is, we have got | :57:58. | :58:01. | |
winners and losers here, and the issuers, the people who are losing | :58:02. | :58:04. | |
out at the moment, it is just happening too quickly. | :58:05. | :58:07. | |
We need some certainty, because businesses can't be expected to just | :58:08. | :58:16. | |
overnight. They need time to plan overnight. They need time to plan | :58:17. | :58:19. | |
that, and we need some certainty from the government about what they | :58:20. | :58:22. | |
plan to do during a transition. And there is a danger that we will | :58:23. | :58:24. | |
drive out of our high streets and drive out of our high streets and | :58:25. | :58:27. | |
shops that make them and Justin, the smallest shops? | :58:28. | :58:32. | |
Yes, and they are the ones that people really like in their High | :58:33. | :58:34. | |
Street, the different shops, the ones that are different and special, | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
particularly as our coastal towns, as you showed in your film. | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
We need a period of transition. There is already one announced, ?3.6 | :58:44. | :58:50. | |
billion committed to the transitional programme, so that some | :58:51. | :58:52. | |
of the people who are getting rateable values through that have | :58:53. | :58:56. | |
gone very substantially, they will never, ever get to the point where | :58:57. | :58:59. | |
they pay that rateable value, because the transition go to slowly. | :59:00. | :59:05. | |
But what the Prime Minister said the Chancellor has already indicated, | :59:06. | :59:06. | |
there will be budget announcements there will be budget announcements | :59:07. | :59:14. | |
which we are not allowed to talk about... Obviously, they are going | :59:15. | :59:18. | |
to look at the transitional programme, and they are right, we | :59:19. | :59:23. | |
need to smooth the pain. But the fundamental problem is, we're | :59:24. | :59:25. | |
talking the High Street. That has been going on for years, and this | :59:26. | :59:29. | |
accelerates the process. If you put a rateable values, because the chain | :59:30. | :59:34. | |
is coming, the coffee shops, the restaurant and pub chains, who are | :59:35. | :59:37. | |
very good at generating much higher turnover, but at the rent and | :59:38. | :59:41. | |
values, and then the little bakery, your little book shop, your tool | :59:42. | :59:45. | |
store, these people will get squeezed out. I don't know what the | :59:46. | :59:48. | |
answer is, but we need to have a new think about this rather than wait | :59:49. | :59:52. | |
another 20 years and have another row about business rate in 20 years' | :59:53. | :59:55. | |
time after we have lost a lot more shops. | :59:56. | :59:56. | |
Let's move on. Time now for our round-up of the political weakens it | :59:57. | :00:04. | |
to second. -- political week in 60 seconds. | :00:05. | :00:10. | |
Norfolk became one of the last of our county councils to agree its | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
budget for the new financial year, and it has gone for the biggest | :00:16. | :00:22. | |
increase ever, 4.8%. For an average home, that means an extra ?57 a | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
year. We have been subsidising the | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
district councils. What we are saying is, hang on, we can no longer | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
do this for you. The region's farmers say they could | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
struggle to produce enough food of Brexit leads to a shortage of | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
migrant workers. They told MPs this week that they need a guarantee that | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
workers they need will be allowed to come here. | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
We cannot find enough local labour in order to sustain the business and | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
continue picking the crop I have got the ground. It sounds sensational, | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
To raise Acas a steely eye over To raise Acas a steely eye over | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
proceedings in the House of Lords, as Essex's baronet and Jill Smith | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
kicked off the debate on leaving the EU. ! Theresa May. | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
Back in the Commons, Speaker burqa slapped down Southend MP James | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
Diedrich, whose motion expressing no confidence in him only attracted a | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
handful of MPs. -- speaker Bercow. As the government | :01:23. | :01:30. | |
backed banister -- -- as the government minister contacted you? | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
The answer is no, and is no reason why they should have done. | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
The low paid workers being is a big thing, isn't it? Yes, it is, and | :01:39. | :01:47. | |
there are companies, farm workers across our region who are really | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
concerned that post Brexit, they are not going to be able to get the | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
workers here in our fields. That will make sure we have food on our | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
tables. But there was a vote, referendum, | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
people voted to come out of the EU, and one of the big things was | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
actually cheap migrant labour coming into this country. That was one of | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
the things that decided people. What you say to those people? | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
What I say is that when you go to a supermarket, you're going to want | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
there to be food there, and we need to make sure there are enough people | :02:18. | :02:19. | |
available here in the country to make sure that the work is carried | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
out on British farms, and it is not just about local aid cash -- | :02:25. | :02:32. | |
low-paid migrant micro-working our fields. It is about industries and | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
East of England, to make sure Britain continues to be seen as an | :02:37. | :02:38. | |
open and welcoming place where people want to come because it is | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
important for our economy. David Davis seemed to say this week | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
that actually, we would be getting migrant workers here still. | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
Yes, I agree with every word, and I think David Davis probably would as | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
well. Many of us fought on the Leave side using immigration as an example | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
of something that we have lost control of, but that doesn't | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
necessarily mean we think immigration is a bad thing for this | :03:03. | :03:05. | |
country, and the right kind of immigration is good for this | :03:06. | :03:06. | |
country. I have got horticultural country. I have got horticultural | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
farms, fruit farms in my constituency facing this very | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
problem. I have already had meetings with agriculture ministers and Home | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
Office ministers. We used to have a scheme called B Seasonal | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
Agricultural Workers' Scheme, and which should have that back. They | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
should be trialling it this season should be trialling it this season | :03:26. | :03:27. | |
in order to encourage people to come and deal with our labour shortages. | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
Thank you both for being with us. That is all for now. You can keep in | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
touch on our website. Back to Andrew in the studio. | :03:35. | :03:35. | |
Welcome back. Article 50, which triggers the beginning of Britain | :03:36. | :03:55. | |
leaving the European Union and start negotiations, is winding its way | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
through the Lords in this coming week. Tarzan has made an | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
intervention, let's just see the headline from the Mail on Sunday. | :04:04. | :04:10. | |
Lord Heseltine, Michael Heseltine, my fightback starts here, he is | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
going to defy Theresa May. I divide one Prime Minister over the poll | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
tax, I'm ready to defy this one in the Lords over Brexit. There we go, | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
that's going to happen this week. We will see how far he gets. I don't | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
think he will get very far, I don't think Loyalist Tory MPs and | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
Brexiteers are quaking in their boots at the prospect of a rebellion | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
led by Michael Heseltine. I sense that many Tory MPs are already | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
moving on to the next question about Brexit, and the discussion over how | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
much it will cost us to come out. The fact they are already debating | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
that suggests to me they feel things will go fairly smoothly in terms of | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
the legislation. When I spoke to the Labour leader in the Lords last week | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
on the daily politics, she said she was going to push hard for the kind | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
of amendments Lord has all-time is talking about and they would bring | :05:06. | :05:14. | |
that back to the Commons. But if the Commons pinged it back to the Lords | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
with the amendments taken out, she made it clear that was the end of | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
it. Is that right? That's about right. This is probably really a | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
large destruction. There will be to micro issues that come up in the | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
Lords, one is on the future of EU nationals, that could be voted on as | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
soon as this Wednesday, and then the main vote in the Lords on a week on | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
Tuesday, when there is this question of what sort of vote will MPs and | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
peers get at the end of the Brexit process and that is what has | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
all-time is talking about. He wants to make sure there are guarantees in | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
place. The kind of things peers are looking for are pretty moderate and | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
the Government have hinted they could deliver on both of them | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
already. But they are still not prepared... Amber Rudd said they | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
were not prepared... They may say yes we are going to do that but they | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
won't allow whatever that is to be enshrined in the legislation. The | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
question is whether we think this is dancing on the head of a pin. The | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
Government have already promised something in the House of Commons, | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
but will they write it down, I don't think that's the biggest problem in | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
the world. In a sense this is a great magicians trick by Theresa May | :06:32. | :06:34. | |
because it is not the most important thing. The most important thing in | :06:35. | :06:41. | |
Brexit is going on in those committees behind closed doors when | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
they are trying to work out what the next migration system is for Britain | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
and there are some interesting, indeed toxic proposals, but at the | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
moment Downing Street are happy to let us talk about the constitutional | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
propriety of what MPs are doing over the next eight days. It seems to me | :06:56. | :07:02. | |
the irony is that if we had a second chamber that can claim some kind of | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
democratic legitimacy, which the one we have cannot, it would be able to | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
cause the Government more trouble on this, it would be more robust. | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
Absolutely. I saw the interview we did with the Labour Leader of the | :07:16. | :07:24. | |
Lords, they are very conscious, of the fact they are not elected and | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
have limited powers. She was clear to you they would not impede the | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
timetable for triggering Article 50 so we might get a bit of theatre, | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
Michael Heseltine might deliver a brilliant speech. It is interesting | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
that Euroscepticism gun under Margaret Thatcher in the Tory party | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
but two offer senior ministers Ken Clarke and Michael Heseltine are the | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
most prominent opponents now but they will change nothing at this | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
point. She will have the space to trigger Article 50 within her | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
timetable. Let's move on. Let me show you a picture tweeted by Nigel | :08:01. | :08:02. | |
Farage. That is Nigel Farage and a small | :08:03. | :08:12. | |
group of people having dinner, and within that small group of people is | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
the president of the United States, and it was taken in the last couple | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
of days. This would suggest that if he can command that amount of the | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
President's time in a small group of people, then he's actually rather | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
close to the president. Make no mistake about it, Nigel Farage is | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
now to and fro Washington more regularly than perhaps he is here. | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
Hopefully that LBC programme is recorded over in the state. He's not | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
only close to the president but to a series of people within the | :08:50. | :08:52. | |
administration. That relationship there is a remarkable one and one to | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
keep an eye on. Will the main government be tempted to tap into | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
that relationship at any time or is it just seething with anger? You can | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
feel a ripple of discontentment over this. We are in the middle of | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
negotiating the state visit and the sort of pomp and circumstance and | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
what kind of greeting Britain should give Donald Trump when he comes over | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
later in the year. There is a great deal of neurotic thought going into | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
what that should look like, but one of the most interesting things about | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
our relationship with Donald Trump is that there is a nervousness among | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
some Cabinet ministers that we are being seen to go too far, too fast | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
with the prospect of a trade deal. Even amongst some Brexiteer cabinet | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
ministers, they worry we won't get a very good trade deal with the US and | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
we are tolerably placing a lot of stalled by it. When we see the kind | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
of deal they want to pitch with us there might be some pulling back and | :09:51. | :09:59. | |
that could be an awkward moment in terms of our relationship, and no | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
doubt Nigel at that term -- at that point will accuse the UK of doing | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
the dirty on Donald Trump. If there was a deal, would they get it | :10:08. | :10:15. | |
through the House of Commons? Nigel Farage is having dinner with the | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
president, not bad as a kind of lifestyle but he's politically | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
rootless, he won't be an MEP much longer so if you look at where is | :10:24. | :10:26. | |
his political base to build on this great time he's having, there is | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
one. Given that there is one I think he's just having a great time and it | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
isn't much more significant than that. No? There's a lot to be said | :10:35. | :10:44. | |
for having a great time. You are having a great time. Let's just | :10:45. | :10:53. | |
look, because of the dominance of the Government we kind of it nor | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
there are problems piling up, only what, ten days with the Budget to | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
go, piling up for Mrs May and her government. The business rates which | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
has alarmed a lot of Tories, this disability cuts which are really a | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
serious problem for the Government, and the desperate need for more | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
money for social care. There are other issues, there are problems | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
there and they involve spending money. Absolutely and some people | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
argue Theresa May has only one Monday and that is to deliver Brexit | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
but it is impossible as a Prime Minister to ignore everything else. | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
And she doesn't want to either. The bubbling issue of social care and | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
the NHS is the biggest single problem for her in the weeks and | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
months ahead, she has got to come up with something. And Mr Hammond will | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
have to loosen his belt a little bit. I think he will in relation to | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
the NHS, he didn't mention it in the Autumn Statement, which was | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
remarkable, and he cannot get away with not mentioning it this time. If | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
he mentions it, it has to be in a positive context in some way or | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
another and it is one example of many. She is both strong because she | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
is so far ahead in the opinion polls, but this in tray is one of | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
the most daunting a Prime Minister has faced in recent times I think. | :12:14. | :12:19. | |
Here is what will happen on Budget day, money will be more money, | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
magically found down the back of the Treasury sofa. The projections are | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
that he has wiggle room of about 12 billion. But look at the bills, | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
rebels involved in business rates suggest the Chancellor will have to | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
throw up ?2 billion at that problem. 3.7 billion is the potential cost of | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
this judgment about disability benefits. The Government will try to | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
find different ways of satisfying it but who knows. It will not popular. | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
I'm not sure they will throw money at the NHS, they want an interim | :12:55. | :12:57. | |
settlement on social care which will alleviate pressure on the NHS but | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
they feel... That's another couple of billion by the way. They feel in | :13:02. | :13:08. | |
the Treasury that the NHS has not delivered on what Simon Stevens | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
promised them. But here is the bigger problem for Philip Hammond, | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
he has two This year and he thinks the second one in the autumn is more | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
important because that is when people will feel the cost living | :13:22. | :13:23. | |
squeeze. The Daily Politics is back at noon | :13:24. | :13:25. | |
on BBC Two tomorrow. We'll be back here at | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
the same time next week. Remember - if it's Sunday, | :13:30. | :13:31. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:32. | :13:38. |