Browse content similar to 19/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
She faces huge political fights over Brexit, Scottish independence, | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
After a tumultuous political week, we'll analyse the PM's prospects. | :00:41. | :00:53. | |
With chatter increasing about a possible early General Election, | :00:54. | :00:55. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's campaign chief joins me live. | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
NHS bosses warn health services in England are facing "mission | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
impossible" and waiting times for operations will rocket, | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
unless hospitals are given more cash this year. | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
Here in the East: Providers joins me live. | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
will businesses in our region take off or will they be grounded | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
after we move closer to leaving the EU? | :01:19. | :01:25. | |
All that to come before 12:15pm, and I'll also be talking | :01:26. | :01:35. | |
to the former leader of the Liberal Democrats Nick Clegg | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
from his party's spring conference in York. | :01:39. | :01:40. | |
With me here in the studio, throughout the programme, | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
three of the country's top political commentators: | :01:46. | :01:47. | |
Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards. | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
They'll be tweeting their thoughts using #bbcsp. | :01:54. | :01:54. | |
So, the political challenges facing Theresa May are stacking up. | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
As well as negotiating Britain's exit from the EU, | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
the PM must now deal with SNP demands for a second referendum | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
on Scottish independence, backbenchers agitating against cuts | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
to school budgets, and a humiliated Chancellor forced to u-turn on a key | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
budget measure just one week after announcing it. | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
Here's Adam Fleming on aturbulent political week | :02:20. | :02:21. | |
Monday, 11:30am, TV crews gather in the residence of the First | :02:22. | :02:38. | |
Minister of Scotland, who's got a surprise. | :02:39. | :02:39. | |
She wants a vote on whether Scotland should leave the UK | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
By taking the steps I have set out today I am ensuring that Scotland's | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
future will be decided, not just by me, the | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
Scottish Government, or the | :02:50. | :02:50. | |
SNP, it will be decided by the people of Scotland. | :02:51. | :02:52. | |
Westminster, 6:25pm the same day, MPs reject | :02:53. | :03:02. | |
amendments to the legislation authorising the Prime Minister to | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
The Bill ceremonially heads to the Lords where peers abandoned | :03:07. | :03:20. | |
attempts to change it and it becomes law. | :03:21. | :03:22. | |
But Downing Street doesn't trigger Article 50 as many had expected. | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
Some say they were spooked by Nicola Sturgeon. | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
We get an e-mail from the Treasury can the | :03:32. | :03:47. | |
We get an e-mail from the Treasury cancelling | :03:48. | :03:49. | |
the planned rise in National Insurance for | :03:50. | :04:00. | |
the self-employed announced the budget. | :04:01. | :04:02. | |
It's just minutes before Prime Minister's Questions at noon. | :04:03. | :04:04. | |
The trend towards greater self-employment does create a | :04:05. | :04:06. | |
We will bring forward further proposals | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
but we will not bring forward increases to NICs later in this | :04:10. | :04:11. | |
It seems to me like a government in a bit of chaos here. | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
By making this change today we are listening to our colleagues | :04:17. | :04:18. | |
fulfil both the letter and the spirit of our manifesto tax | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
Thursday, 7am, Conservative campaign HQ and the | :04:23. | :04:32. | |
Electoral Commission fines the party ?70,000 for misreporting spending | :04:33. | :04:34. | |
But that's not what the Prime Minister | :04:35. | :04:37. | |
Because at 12:19pm she gives her verdict on a | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
We should be working together, not pulling apart. | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
We should be working together to get that | :04:49. | :04:50. | |
right deal for Scotland, that | :04:51. | :04:51. | |
So, as I say, that's my job as Prime Minister and | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
so for that reason I say to the SNP now is not the time. | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
Friday and time for the faithful to gather. | :05:01. | :05:02. | |
SNP activists at their spring conference | :05:03. | :05:03. | |
Conservatives in Cardiff to hear the Prime Minister | :05:04. | :05:14. | |
promote her plan for a more meritocratic Brexit Britain. | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
At 11:10am comes some news about a newspaper that's frankly | :05:19. | :05:20. | |
I'm thrilled and excited to be the new editor of The | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
Evening Standard and, you know, with so many | :05:28. | :05:29. | |
big issues in our world what | :05:30. | :05:30. | |
good analysis, great news journalism. | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
It's a really important time for good journalism that The | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
Evening Standard is going to provide. | :05:42. | :05:42. | |
There was no let-up yesterday as Gordon Brown launched proposals | :05:43. | :05:49. | |
Under my proposals we keep the Barnett | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
Formula, we keep the fiscal transfers, but we also bring the | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
and fisheries back to the Scottish Parliament. | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
And just think, all this and we're still counting down to the | :06:04. | :06:05. | |
What a week in politics. It has been a torrid week for the government, | :06:06. | :06:23. | |
Isabel Oakeshott, but does Theresa May shake it off, or is this a sign | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
of worse to come? We may all be feeling a bit breathless after the | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
events of last week and we are in for a a long war of attrition with | :06:31. | :06:38. | |
the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon's strategy will be to foster over lengthy | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
periods of time as much resentment and anger as she can in Scotland and | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
try to create the impression that independence is somehow inevitable. | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
Is Scotland the biggest challenge for Theresa May in the next year or | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
so? I think it probably is because if you look at how relatively easily | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
the Brexit bill went through on an issue where people could hardly feel | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
more passionate in the Commons, and actually despite all the potential | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
drama it has gone through quite smoothly. To go back to your | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
original question, she just carries on. Don't underestimate the basic | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
quiet and will towards Theresa May amongst the majority of Tory | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
backbenchers. Yes, there are difficult little issues over school | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
funding, sorry, it's not a little issue, it is a big one but she will | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
get over that and treat each thing as it comes and keep pressing on. | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
Has she not called Nicola Sturgeon's Bluff in that the First Minister | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
said I want a referendum, here is roughly when I wanted, the Prime | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
Minister says you're not having one. What happens next? She has done | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
quite well and impact the progress Theresa May made this week in | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
frustrating Nicola Sturgeon was evident when Nicola Sturgeon said, | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
OK, maybe we can talk about the timing after. Nicola Sturgeon has | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
already been the first one to blink. I would slightly disagree with | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
Isabel Oakeshott, I don't agree Scotland will be the biggest hurdle | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
for her. What this week showed as is Theresa May... It was a reality | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
bites week. Theresa May is juggling four mammoth crises at the same | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
time, Brexit obviously which I still think will be the biggest challenge | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
to get a good deal, Trump left field who popped up at GCHQ on Friday and | :08:18. | :08:24. | |
Scotland and the fiscal challenge, this enormous great problem, and it | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
reinforced the point this is not an easy time in politics. The budget is | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
over four years. That was one small problem, the immediate problem is | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
how to fill the social care crisis and the ageing demographic. This is | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
not normal times in British politics and Theresa May does not have a | :08:43. | :08:45. | |
normal workload on her plate, hence why I think we will see more | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
mistakes made as time goes on and as she has this almost impossible | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
workload to juggle. How tempted do you think the Prime Minister is to | :08:56. | :08:58. | |
call an early election? There is more chatter about it now. Is she | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
tempted and if there is will she succumb? I will answer that in a | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
second as Harold Wilson used to say. I want to agree, disagree with the | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
rest of the panel about how she has out manipulated Nicola Sturgeon this | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
week. I think Nicola Sturgeon expected Theresa May to say no to | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
her expected timetable. It would be amazing if she had said yes. She | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
expected her to say no but Sturgeon catalyst that will fuel support for | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
her cause. There is no sign of that. The latest poll this morning shows | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
66-44 against independence and only 13% think they would be better off | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
with an independent Scotland and a clear majority do not want a second | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
referendum. But the calculation of resistance from Westminster combined | :09:44. | :09:46. | |
with Brexit which hasn't started yet, I think this is her | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
calculation, she didn't expect Theresa May to say, sure, go ahead, | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
I'm sure she expected Theresa May to say no, you can't have it at your | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
desired timetable. On the wider point, I think Theresa May is in a | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
fascinating position, she is both strong because she faces weak | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
opposition and is ahead in the opinion polls. But faces the most | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
daunting agenda of any Prime Minister for 40 or 50 years, I | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
think. So it's a weird combination. I don't think she wants to call an | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
election. I don't think she has thought about how you would | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
manipulate it, what the trigger would be, and whether she's got the | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
energy and space to prepare for and then mount a campaign was beginning | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
the Brexit negotiation. Now, you could see the cause would be the | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
small majorities that will make her life hellish, which it will do. | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
Whether a landslide would help is another question, they can be | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
difficult too. But I think the problems outweigh the advantages of | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
going early. Do you think she would go for an early election? I don't | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
and I think you have to look at the rhetoric coming out of No 10 which | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
is so firm on this question, it is a delicious prospect for us as | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
commentators to think there might be an election around the corner but | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
they are so firm on this I can't see it happening. I agree, we are in | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
unanimous agreement on this one. It is superficially attractive because | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
she would love the big majority and she would get a lot more through | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
Parliament especially with Brexit. The nitty-gritty of it makes an | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
early General Election this year almost impossible. How do you write | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
a manifesto on high Brexit versus soft Brexit, it opens up a Pandora's | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
box of uncertainties. And there is enough with the European elections. | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
The EU will say are we negotiating with you or the person who may | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
replace you? How do you keep the Tory party united going to an | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
election? How do you call one, with a vote of no confidence in yourself | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
you may end up losing. Easy on paper but difficult in practice. We shall | :11:43. | :11:43. | |
see. So if Theresa May did go | :11:44. | :11:45. | |
for an early election this spring, The party's campaigns | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
and elections chief Andrew Gwynne Andrew Gwynne, the government, as we | :11:49. | :11:58. | |
have just been talking about, executed one of the most | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
embarrassing U-turns in recent history this week. It has been a | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
torrid time for the Theresa May government. Why are the Tories still | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
so chipper? The Labour Party has been on an | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
early election footing since before Christmas and we are preparing | :12:14. | :12:16. | |
ourselves for that eventuality in case that does come. That means that | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
we've got to get ourselves into a position whereby we can not only | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
challenge the government but we can also offer a valuable alternative | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
for the British people to choose from should that election arise. So, | :12:32. | :12:37. | |
would you welcome an early General Election? Well, of course, I don't | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
want this government to be in power so of course if there is an | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
opportunity to put a case to the British people as to why there is a | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
better way, and I believe the Labour way is the better way than of course | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
we would want to put that case to the country. So, would Labour vote | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
in the Commons for an early election? Well, of course as an | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
opposition, not wanting to be in opposition, wanting to be in | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
government should the government put forward a measure in accordance with | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
the Fixed-term Parliaments Act then that's something we would very | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
seriously have to consider. I know you would have to consider it but | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
would you vote for an early election or not? Well, of course we want to | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
be the government so if the current government puts forward measures to | :13:22. | :13:24. | |
bring forward a General Election we would want to put our case to the | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
British public and that's one of the jobs that I've been given, together | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
Labour Party organisation early into a position where we can fight a | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
General Election -- organisationally. For the avoidance | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
of doubt, if the Government work to issue a motion in the Commons for an | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
early election, the Labour Party would vote for an early election? | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
It would be very difficult not, Andrew. If the Government wants to | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
dissolve parliament, wants a General Election, we don't want the Tories | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
in government, we want to be in government and we want to have that | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
opportunity to put that case to the British people. | :14:02. | :14:03. | |
Are you ready for an early election? You say you have been on a war all | :14:04. | :14:12. | |
but since the Labour conference last autumn, but are you ready for one? | :14:13. | :14:14. | |
How big is the election fighting fund? We have substantial amounts of | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
money in our fighting fund, that is true, because not only has the | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
Labour Party managed to eliminate its own financial deficit that it | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
inherited from previous election campaigns, we have also managed to | :14:28. | :14:35. | |
build up a substantial fund in the off chance we have an election. We | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
have also expanded massively operations at Labour HQ, we are | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
taking on additional staff, and one of the jobs that myself and Ian | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
Lavery who I job share with are currently doing is to go around the | :14:49. | :14:51. | |
Parliamentary Labour Party to make sure that Labour colleagues have the | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
support and the resources that they need, should they have to face the | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
electorate in their constituencies. So you are on a war footing, ready | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
for the fight, you say you would vote for the fight, so have you got | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
your tax and spend policies ready to roll out? That is something the | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
shadow Treasury team will be discussing. One of the things is, if | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
there is an early General Election, the normal timetable for these | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
things gets fast-track because our policy decision-making body, its | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
annual conference, we have the national policy forum that creates | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
policies suggestions. You have been on a war footing since the last | :15:31. | :15:33. | |
Labour conference, that is what Mr Corbyn told us. So you must have a | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
fair idea of what policies you would fight an early election on. How much | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
extra per year would you spend on the NHS? Well, look, I'm not going | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
to set out the Labour manifesto for an election that hasn't been called. | :15:48. | :15:50. | |
I'm just asking you about the NHS. You must have a policy for that. We | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
have a policy for the NHS. So how much extra? I will not set out | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
Labour's tax-and-spend policies here on The Sunday Politics when there | :16:02. | :16:04. | |
hasn't even been election called. You said you had been on a war | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
footing and you are prepared to vote for one, so if you can't Tommy that, | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
can you tell me what the corporation rate tax on company profits be under | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
a Labour government -- tell me that. You will have to be patient. I have. | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
And wait for Mrs May to trigger an early election. If there is an | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
election on the 4th of May the rich would have to be issued on the 27th | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
of March, so that's not long to wait. If that date passes we aren't | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
having an election on the 4th of May and the normal timetable for policy | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
development will continue. All right. You lost Copeland, I think | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
you were in charge of a by-election for Labour, your national poll | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
ratings are still dire, even after week of terrible times for the | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
Tories. Sometimes you even lose local government by-elections in | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
safe seats, including in the place you are now, in Salford. How long | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
does Mr Corbyn have to turn this around? Well, look, the issue of the | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
Labour leadership was settled last year. The last thing the Labour | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
Party now needs is another period of introspection with the Labour Party | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
merely talks to the Labour Party. We are now on an election footing in | :17:18. | :17:24. | |
case Mrs May does trigger an early General Election. We need to be | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
talking to the British people are not to ourselves. So any speculation | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
about the Labour leadership might excite you in the media but actually | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
for us in the Labour Party it's about re-engaging and reconnecting | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
with the voters. Rather than being excited, I feel quite daunted at the | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
prospect of an early election. So I wouldn't get that right. Normally, | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
given the number of mistakes this government has made, and its | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
mid-term, you would expect any self-respecting opposition to be | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
about ten points ahead. On the latest polls this morning you are 17 | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
behind. There is a 27-30 point gap from where you should normally be as | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
an opposition. Are you telling me that if that doesn't change, you | :18:09. | :18:11. | |
still fight the General Election with Mr Corbyn? | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
These are matters for the future. I believe the leadership issue was | :18:18. | :18:25. | |
settled last year. We have had two leadership contest in two years. | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
Would you seriously contemplate going into the next election, if it | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
is early I perfectly understand Jeremy Corbyn is your man, but if it | :18:34. | :18:39. | |
is not until 2020, and you are still 17 points behind in the polls, will | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
you go into the next election like that? There is a lot of future | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
looking and speculation there, I don't know what the future holds, | :18:49. | :18:57. | |
where the Labour Party will be in 12 months let alone by 2020 summit | :18:58. | :18:59. | |
cross those bridges when we come to it. My main challenge is to make | :19:00. | :19:02. | |
sure the Labour Party is in the best possible place organisationally to | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
fight an election, that's my challenge and I'm up for that to | :19:06. | :19:08. | |
make sure we are in the best possible place to make sure Labour | :19:09. | :19:15. | |
returns as many Labour MPs as possible. Thank you for joining us. | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
And we're joined now from the Liberal Democrats' spring | :19:22. | :19:23. | |
conference in York by the former Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg. | :19:24. | :19:25. | |
Good morning. In his conference speech today, Tim Farron lumps | :19:26. | :19:34. | |
Theresa May with Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump. In | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
what way is Mrs May similar to Marine Le Pen? Of course he is not | :19:40. | :19:48. | |
saying Theresa May is identical to Marine Le Pen, I think what Tim | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
Wilby spelling out shortly in his speech is that we need to be aware | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
what's going on in the world, the International settlement that was | :19:58. | :20:04. | |
arrived at after the First World -- Second World War, that bound | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
supranational organisations is under attack from characters as diverse as | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump, and that by side in so | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
ostentatiously with Donald Trump and pursuing this very hard Brexit, | :20:21. | :20:23. | |
Theresa May appears to be giving succour to that much more | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
isolationist chauvinist view of the world than the multilateral approach | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
that Britain has subscribed to for a long time. The exact words he plans | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
to use are welcome to the New World order, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump, | :20:39. | :20:46. | |
Marine Le Pen, Theresa May, aggressive and teenage to, anti-EU, | :20:47. | :20:52. | |
nationalistic. In what way is Mrs May fitting into any of that? In | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
what way is she similar to Vladimir Putin? I'm not aware she has | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
interfered with other people's elections. The clue is in the quote | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
you just read out, which is the world order. The world order over | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
the last half century or more, by the way a lesson I'm afraid we have | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
to learn in Europe because of the terrible bloodshed of two world was | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
in the space of a few decades, was based on the idea might is not | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
right. Strong arm leaders cannot throw their weight around. What we | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
have now with Putin, the populism across parts of Europe and Donald | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
Trump who thinks the EU will unravel is a shift to a radically different | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
view of the world. Mrs May doesn't think any of that. She is not | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
antenatal, not anti-EU, she says she wants the EU to succeed. She's not | :21:50. | :21:55. | |
aggressive as far as I'm aware so I'm not sure why you would lump the | :21:56. | :21:58. | |
British Prime Minister in with these other characters. Let me explain, by | :21:59. | :22:05. | |
choosing this uncompromising approach to Brexit, clearly in doing | :22:06. | :22:13. | |
so she, in my view, maybe not yours or others, is pursuing a self | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
harming approach to the United Kingdom but also pulling up the | :22:18. | :22:20. | |
threads that bind the rest of the European Union together, in so | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
ostentatiously siding with Donald Trump, somehow declaring in my view | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
speciously that we can make up with the trade we will lose, she's not | :22:31. | :22:39. | |
challenging the shift to a more chauvinist approach to world affairs | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
that is happening in many places. You are at your party's Spring | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
conference, I think we can agree any Lib Dem come back will take a long | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
time. Would Tory dominance be more effectively challenged by a | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
realignment of the centre and the centre-left? Are you working towards | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
that? I missed half the question but I think you are talking about a | :23:04. | :23:10. | |
realignment. As a cook a way to get over Tory dominance, would you want | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
that to happen? Are you working towards that? My view is the | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
recovery of the Lib Dems will be quicker than you suggest. People | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
often forget that even the low point of our fortunes in the last election | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
we still got a million more votes than the SNP, it's only because we | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
have got this crazy electoral system... But the SNP fight in | :23:34. | :23:41. | |
Scotland, you fight in the whole country! But I'm saying the way | :23:42. | :23:48. | |
seats are allocated overlooks the fact that 2.5 million still voted | :23:49. | :23:56. | |
for us. But my own view is of course there are people feeling | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
increasingly homeless in the liberal wing of the Conservative Party | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
because they are now in a party which is in effect indistinguishable | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
from Ukip on some of the biggest issues of the day, and homeless folk | :24:08. | :24:14. | |
on the rational, reasonable wing of the Labour Party. I would invite | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
them to join the Liberal Democrats and I would invite everyone across | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
parties to talk about the idea is that bind us because the Westminster | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
village can invest a lot of energy building new castles in the sky, | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
inventing new names for parties when actually what you want is for people | :24:32. | :24:34. | |
on the progressive centre ground of British politics to talk about the | :24:35. | :24:46. | |
ideas that unite them, from the dilemmas of artificial intelligence | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
to climate change. Do you think in your own view, can Brexit still be | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
thwarted or is it now a matter of getting the best terms? I think we | :24:56. | :25:04. | |
are in an interlude, almost a calm between two storms, the storm of the | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
referendum itself and the collision between the Government's stated | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
ambitions for Brexit and the reality of having to negotiate something | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
unworkable with 27 other governments. The one thing I can | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
guarantee you is that what the Government has promised to the | :25:22. | :25:32. | |
British people cannot happen. Over a slower period of time we will work | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
out our new relationship with the European Union. Theresa May said she | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
will settle divorce arrangements, and pensions, so one, negotiate new | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
trade agreements, new climate change policies and so on, and have all of | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
that ratified within two years, that will not happen so I think there | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
will be a lot of turbulence in the next couple of years. Will you use | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
this turbulence to try to thwart Brexit, to find a way of rolling | :26:03. | :26:09. | |
back the decision? It's not about repeating the debates of the past or | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
thwarting the will of the people but it is comparing what people were | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
promised from the ?350 million for the NHS every week through to this | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
glittering array of new trade agreements we will sign across the | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
world, with the reality that will transpire in the next couple of | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
years and at that point, yes it is my belief people should be able to | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
take a second look at if that is what they really want. A couple of | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
quick questions, would you welcome an early general election? I always | :26:42. | :26:48. | |
welcome them, we couldn't do worse than we did last time. That is | :26:49. | :26:55. | |
certainly true. You have a column in the Evening Standard, have you | :26:56. | :26:57. | |
spoken to the new editor about whether he will keep your column or | :26:58. | :27:04. | |
spike it? No, I wait in nervous anticipation. Can you be a newspaper | :27:05. | :27:11. | |
editor in the morning and an MP in the afternoon? Do I think that's | :27:12. | :27:19. | |
feasible? Sorry, I missed a bit. There is no prohibition, no law | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
against MPs being editors. They have been in the past and no doubt will | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
again in the future. He is taking a lot on, he is an editor, also | :27:30. | :27:36. | |
wanting to be an MP, a jetsetting academic in the States, working in | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
the city, I suspect something will give. It seems to me even by his | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
self-confidence standards in his own abilities I suspect he is taking on | :27:46. | :27:51. | |
a little bit too much. Very diplomatic, Mr Clegg, I'm sure you | :27:52. | :27:54. | |
will get to keep the column. Thanks for joining us. | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
Now, for the last six months England's NHS bosses have been | :28:00. | :28:01. | |
warning the health service needs more money to help it meet | :28:02. | :28:04. | |
But in his first Budget, the Chancellor offered | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
no immediate relief, and today the head of | :28:08. | :28:09. | |
the organisation representing England's NHS trusts says hundreds | :28:10. | :28:11. | |
of thousands of patients will have to wait longer for both emergency | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
care and planned operations, unless the Government | :28:15. | :28:16. | |
Warnings over funding are not exactly new. | :28:17. | :28:23. | |
Back in 2014 the head of the NHS in England, Simon Stevens, | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
published his plan for the future of the health service. | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
In his five-year forward view, Stevens said the NHS in England | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
would face a funding shortfall of up to ?30 billion by 2020. | :28:35. | :28:37. | |
To bridge that gap he said the NHS would need more money | :28:38. | :28:40. | |
from the Government, at least ?8 billion extra, | :28:41. | :28:43. | |
and that the health service could account for the rest by making | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
The Government says it's given the health service more than what it | :28:47. | :28:53. | |
asked for, and that NHS in England will have received | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
That number is disputed by NHS managers and the chair | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
of Parliament's health committee, who say the figure is more | :29:02. | :29:03. | |
like ?4.5 billion, while other parts of the health and social care budget | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
have been cut, putting pressure on the front line. | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
Last year, two thirds of NHS trusts in England finished | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
the year in the red, and despite emergency bailouts | :29:17. | :29:18. | |
from the Government, the NHS is likely to record | :29:19. | :29:20. | |
Meanwhile national targets on waiting times for A | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
departments, diagnostic tests, and operations are being | :29:26. | :29:28. | |
This month's Budget provided ?2 billion for social care | :29:29. | :29:35. | |
but there was no new cash for the NHS, leading trusts to warn | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
that patient care is beginning to suffer, and what is being asked | :29:40. | :29:42. | |
And I'm joined now by the Chief Executive of NHS | :29:43. | :29:48. | |
Providers in England, Chris Hopson. | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
Welcome to the programme. Morning, Andrew. I will come onto the extra | :29:54. | :30:00. | |
money you need to do your job properly in a minute but first, part | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
of the deal was you had to make 22 billion in efficiency savings, not a | :30:06. | :30:08. | |
bank that money but spend it on patient care, the front line, and so | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
on. How is that going? So, last parliament we realised around 18 | :30:15. | :30:17. | |
billion of productivity and efficiency savings, we are realising | :30:18. | :30:20. | |
more this year so we are on course to realise 3 billion this year, that | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
is a quarter of a billion more than last year but all of us in the NHS | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
knew the 22 billion would be a very stretching target and we are | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
somewhat inevitably falling short. So it is 22 billion by 2,020. | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
Roughly. That was the time. We are now into 2017. So how much of the 22 | :30:41. | :30:49. | |
billion have you achieved? We realised around 3 billion last year | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
and we will realise 3 billion this year, Court of billion more, 3.25 | :30:54. | :30:59. | |
billion this year, so we are on course for 18-19,000,000,000. By the | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
2021 period? You are not that far away. The problem is the degree to | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
which demand is going up. We have record demand over the winter period | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
and that actually meant we have seen more people than we have ever seen | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
before but performance is still under real pressure. Let me come | :31:17. | :31:22. | |
onto that. When you agreed on the 22 billion efficiency savings plus some | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
extra money from the government, I know there is a bit of an argument | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
about how much that is actually worth, had you not factored in this | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
extra demand that you saw coming over the next three or four years? | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
Let's be very clear committee referred to Simon Stevens's forward | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
view and we signed up to it but the 22 billion was a process run at the | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
centre of government by the Department of Health with its arms | :31:49. | :31:51. | |
length bodies, NHS England and others and is not something that was | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
consulted on with the NHS. But you signed up to it. We always said that | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
the day that that Spending Review was announced, the idea that the NHS | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
where customer demand goes up something like four or 5% every | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
year, the idea that in the middle years of Parliament we would be able | :32:10. | :32:12. | |
to provide the same level of service when we were only getting funding | :32:13. | :32:18. | |
increases of 1.3%, 0.4% and 0.7%, and I can show you the press release | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
we issued, we always said there was going to be a gap and that we would | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
not be able to deliver what was required. The full 22 billion in | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
other words? What we said to Simon Stevens at the Public Accounts | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
Committee a few months ago, the NHS didn't get what it was asked for. | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
Today the NHS, cope with the resources it has according to you. | :32:43. | :32:49. | |
How much more does it need? Are reported is about 2017-18 and we | :32:50. | :32:52. | |
estimate that what we are being asked to do, and again, Andrew, you | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
clearly set it out in the package, we are a long way off the four-hour | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
A target and a long way off the 92%. The waiting times and | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
operations. How much more do you need? And we are making up a ?900 | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
million deficit. If you take all of those into account we estimate you | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
would need an extra ?3.5 billion next year in order to deliver all of | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
those targets and eliminate the deficit. That would be 3.5 billion | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
on top of what is already planned next year and that would be 3.5 | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
billion repeated in the years to come too? Yes, Andrew it is | :33:29. | :33:30. | |
important we should make an important distinction about the NHS | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
versus other public services. When the last government, the last Labour | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
government put extra money into the NHS it clearly said that in return | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
for that it would establish some standards in the NHS Constitution, | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
the 95% A target we have talked about and the 92% elective surgery | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
we have talked about. The trust we represent are very clear, they would | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
want to realise those standards, but you can only do it if you pay for | :33:58. | :34:00. | |
it. The problem is at the moment is we are in the longest and deepest | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
financial squeeze in NHS history. As we have said, funding is only going | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
up by 1% per year but every year just to stand still cost and demand | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
go up by more than 4%. There is clearly a demand for more money. I | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
think people watching this programme will think probably the NHS is going | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
to have to get more money to meet the goals you have been given. I | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
think they would also like to be sure that your Mac running the NHS | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
as efficiently as it could be. We read this morning that trusts have | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
got ?100 million of empty properties that cost 10 million to maintain, 36 | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
office blocks are not being used, you have surplus land equivalent to | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
1800 football pitches. Yes, there are a number of things that we know | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
in the NHS we need to do better but let me remind you, Andrew, in the | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
last Parliament we realised ?18 billion worth of cost improvement | :34:57. | :34:59. | |
gains. We are going to realise another 3 billion this year, 0.25 | :35:00. | :35:06. | |
billion more than last year so these things are being targeted. But | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
having that surplus land, it is almost certainly in areas where | :35:11. | :35:12. | |
there is a demand for housing. Absolutely. So why not release it | :35:13. | :35:19. | |
for housing? You get the money, the people get their houses and its | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
contribution and a signal that you are running NHS assets as | :35:24. | :35:26. | |
efficiently as you can? Tell me if I'm going to too much detail for | :35:27. | :35:32. | |
you. One of the reasons as to why our trusts are reluctant to realise | :35:33. | :35:35. | |
those land sales is because there is an assumption that the money would | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
go back to the Treasury and wouldn't benefit NHS trusts. You could make a | :35:41. | :35:43. | |
deal, couldn't you? That's part of the conversation going on at the | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
moment. The issue is that we would want to ensure that if we do release | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
land, quite rightly the benefit, particularly in foundation trusts | :35:53. | :36:04. | |
which are, as you will remember, deliberately autonomous | :36:05. | :36:05. | |
organisations, that they should keep the benefit of those land sales. | :36:06. | :36:08. | |
Have you raised that with the government? | :36:09. | :36:08. | |
Yes we have. What did they say? They are in discussions of it. We heard | :36:09. | :36:20. | |
somebody who moved from one job and then to another job and given a big | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
salary and then almost ?200,000 as a payoff. There is a national mood for | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
the NHS to get more money. But before you give anybody any more | :36:30. | :36:32. | |
money you want to be sure that the money you have got already is being | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
properly spent, which for us, is the patient at the end of the day. And | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
yet there seem to be these enormous salaries and payoffs. I've worked in | :36:42. | :36:49. | |
a FTSE 100 on the board of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs and I | :36:50. | :36:51. | |
have worked in large organisations. I can look you completely straight | :36:52. | :36:54. | |
in the eye and tell you that the jobs that our hospital, community, | :36:55. | :36:57. | |
mental health and ambulance chief Executives do are amongst the most | :36:58. | :37:00. | |
complicated leadership roles I have ever seen. It doesn't seem to me to | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
be unreasonable that in order to get the right quality of people we | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
should pay an appropriate salary. The reality is the salaries are paid | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
are not excessive when talking about managing budgets of over ?1 billion | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
a year and talking about managing tens of thousands of staff. There | :37:18. | :37:25. | |
was a doctor working as a locum that earned an extra ?375,000. One of the | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
problems in the NHS is a mismatch between the number of staff we need | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
and the number of staff coming through the pipeline. What is having | :37:33. | :37:35. | |
to happen is if you want to keep a service going you have to use Mackem | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
and agency staff. Even at that cost? You would not want to pay those | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
amounts. But you are. The chief Executives's choice in those areas | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
is giving the service open or employing a locum. I'm sure you | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
could find a locum prepared to work for less than that. What indication, | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
what hopes do you have of getting the extra ?3 billion? The government | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
has been very clear, for the moment it wants to stick to the existing | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
funding settlement it has agreed. So there was nothing in the budget. Can | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
I finish by making one important point. Please, finish. This is the | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
first time the NHS has said before the year has even started that we | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
can't deliver on those standards. We believe, as do most people who work | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
in the NHS, that the NHS is on a gradual slow decline. This is a very | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
important inflection point to Mark, this is the first time before the | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
financial year starts that we say we cannot meet the targets we are being | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
asked to deliver and are in the NHS Constitution. We have run out of | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
time. Chris Hopson, thank you for being with me. | :38:44. | :38:44. | |
It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :38:45. | :38:46. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now | :38:47. | :38:49. | |
In the programme - on the road to leaving the EU | :38:50. | :39:06. | |
as the bill becomes law, we'll see what lies | :39:07. | :39:08. | |
We speak to the MP leading the charge against some | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
It does fall upon the Conservative parliamentary party to actually | :39:15. | :39:24. | |
go through everything in detail and provide a | :39:25. | :39:26. | |
holding the Government to account type of organisation | :39:27. | :39:28. | |
because the opposition are not doing that. | :39:29. | :39:35. | |
With me this week, Kelvin Hopkins the Labour MP for Luton North | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
and James Cartilage, the Conservative MP | :39:41. | :39:41. | |
But let's start with local lotteries, a new way for councils | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
Local authorities who have seen their Government funding cut | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
by 40% since 2010 were given the powers to set up their own | :39:52. | :39:54. | |
The first in the country was set up last year in Buckinghamshire. | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
Now, there are plans for a growing number of council lotteries | :40:01. | :40:03. | |
across the region, in places including Daventry, | :40:04. | :40:04. | |
Kings Lane, Corby, Peterborough and across Essex. | :40:05. | :40:07. | |
Cooking up skills for the future, the Teamwork Trust in Corby offers | :40:08. | :40:16. | |
classes like this for people with learning difficulties | :40:17. | :40:18. | |
As some pots of grant funding have been cut, | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
they have signed up to benefit from a new lottery run | :40:25. | :40:27. | |
To find funding that makes a difference to general day-to-day | :40:28. | :40:34. | |
opportunities we give our members, we have... | :40:35. | :40:38. | |
We find ourselves doing more and more bids. | :40:39. | :40:47. | |
The opportunity that the lottery gives us will help significantly. | :40:48. | :40:49. | |
It is hoped in the Corby lottery will raise ?20,000 a year for local | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
That is around one tenth of the amount the local borough | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
The council insists this is not to replace grant funding. | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
We do have a considerable amount we give out in small grants, | :41:02. | :41:09. | |
but helping organisations receive more is a good thing to do. | :41:10. | :41:11. | |
Regardless of local authorities having less and less money, | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
This is about supporting our local community. | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
Others warn about becoming reliant on lottery funding. | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
The thing about a lottery, of course, it is dependent | :41:27. | :41:28. | |
If it completely replaces grant funding, I think | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
If it is additional to grant funding, fantastic. | :41:33. | :41:38. | |
I think the reality is, it is replacing a large part | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
of grant funding because the money just isn't available any more. | :41:42. | :41:43. | |
At least the voluntary sector will have access to funding. | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
Tickets will be sold online and cost ?1. | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
Another 20p will go towards admin and VAT. | :41:50. | :41:57. | |
The Corby lottery still needs approval | :41:58. | :42:04. | |
But people here seem keen on taking part for a ?25,000 jackpot. | :42:05. | :42:10. | |
Better than the National Lottery, because I think the National Lottery | :42:11. | :42:12. | |
If it goes towards good causes locally, excellent. | :42:13. | :42:23. | |
It is a good idea, will they reduce my council tax? | :42:24. | :42:25. | |
No, there is no council tax reduction if you play. | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
There you go, then, so I wouldn't play it. | :42:30. | :42:31. | |
The fact that most of us go to things around here | :42:32. | :42:40. | |
to help local stuff, it is absolutely great. | :42:41. | :42:42. | |
There was also enthusiasm in Buckinghamshire. | :42:43. | :42:43. | |
Aylesbury Vale District Council was the first in the country | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
to launch a lottery and raised ?70,000 for good | :42:49. | :42:50. | |
It is a winner for the good causes, naturally. | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
It is a winner for the council, because it shows that they are | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
taking seriously the loss in Government grants | :42:59. | :43:00. | |
Who quite often can be perhaps the first port of call | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
For now, lottery income will be just another ingredient when it comes | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
But it will become more important as council budgets continue | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
Kelvin Hopkins, if it puts money into good causes, | :43:15. | :43:21. | |
Well, it is a relatively small amount. | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
But it is really about the savage cuts in funding for local | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
authorities, from central Government under six years of George | :43:30. | :43:31. | |
Whatever they say, that is what it is really about. | :43:32. | :43:38. | |
I think local authorities have suffered terribly from underfunding | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
from central Government and we have to restore that so that they provide | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
I think if we are going to make money we ought to consciously vote | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
for the monies that is going to be spent and raised. | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
So we pay our taxes, and those who are better off pay most, | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
Lotteries tend to be played by people who are on low incomes. | :44:00. | :44:05. | |
Even in the National Lottery, which supports our Olympic | :44:06. | :44:12. | |
athletes and whatever, even there it tends | :44:13. | :44:14. | |
to redistribute from the less better off to the better off | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
because the better off would pay higher taxes. | :44:18. | :44:19. | |
Otherwise, the poor substitute that cash by playing the lotteries. | :44:20. | :44:21. | |
The answer is to put more money into our local | :44:22. | :44:24. | |
To be clear, is about I think discretionary sums of money. | :44:25. | :44:34. | |
It can be a huge amount of money if you are on a low income | :44:35. | :44:45. | |
and you are putting money into that that you can't really afford to do. | :44:46. | :44:48. | |
I think people who do are people who are going to be able | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
The point is, if a local authority chooses to raise funds for charities | :44:53. | :44:59. | |
and some good causes that we saw in your piece, I think | :45:00. | :45:01. | |
It is a good example of local innovation. | :45:02. | :45:04. | |
You worried that actually you may think it is going to a charity that | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
you would like to support but it is up to somebody | :45:09. | :45:11. | |
on the council who will decide whether the money goes? | :45:12. | :45:14. | |
And it may not go where you want it to go? | :45:15. | :45:16. | |
Think people responding in the piece were happy | :45:17. | :45:18. | |
that it was going to something in their area. | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
I don't think they expect to have an absolute say | :45:22. | :45:23. | |
They said, it is supporting my local community. | :45:24. | :45:26. | |
I think that is attractive as a prospect. | :45:27. | :45:28. | |
I suppose the problem is if the lottery doesn't have money | :45:29. | :45:31. | |
to give to these charities and good causes, and the money dries up? | :45:32. | :45:34. | |
One problem I think is that there is only a certain amount of money | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
available for putting into lotteries and it might just be | :45:38. | :45:39. | |
that the National Lottery will lose a bit to local lotteries. | :45:40. | :45:42. | |
But actually the total amount being raised in national | :45:43. | :45:44. | |
You are against that, you are in favour of it? | :45:45. | :45:53. | |
If it does what it is supposed to do, it is a good thing? | :45:54. | :45:56. | |
This week, we moved one step closer to leaving the EU. | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
The bill preparing the way finally passed through Parliament, | :46:02. | :46:03. | |
well before Theresa May's deadline at the end of the month. | :46:04. | :46:06. | |
In the run-up to the formal process of Brexit, we have been | :46:07. | :46:10. | |
what challenges are facing us on the road ahead. | :46:11. | :46:22. | |
# There must be some kind of way out of here #. | :46:23. | :46:29. | |
That is what the Prime Minister will start negotiating. | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
It is down to her, with a bit of sovereignty | :46:34. | :46:35. | |
What we know is that there won't be as much free movement within the EU. | :46:36. | :46:41. | |
And we are leaving the single market. | :46:42. | :46:47. | |
We are driving to a destiny where the detail is still unknown. | :46:48. | :46:56. | |
And as we go full throttle So into the Brexit age, | :46:57. | :46:59. | |
Great minds are essential to the machines made | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
in Great Britain that race on Northamptonshire's circuits. | :47:04. | :47:05. | |
Nearby, Cambridge is arguably the brain of Britain. | :47:06. | :47:08. | |
It has the largest pharmaceutical hub outside America. | :47:09. | :47:17. | |
Many scientists backed Remain, but a pharmaceutical bosses | :47:18. | :47:23. | |
I think it is a question of how we use the Freedom of Brexit. | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
It is not Brexit itself, it is what we do with it. | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
The investment in biopharmaceuticals is investment not for now but for 15 | :47:32. | :47:34. | |
It is up to the Government to allow a us to invest and grow here. | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
The benefit, or the strength of Cambridge is that the world best | :47:40. | :47:47. | |
and brightest have always come here to do their research. | :47:48. | :47:54. | |
We are assuming that the enthusiasm of the Cambridge environment assumes | :47:55. | :47:57. | |
that that will be more the case in the future. | :47:58. | :47:59. | |
So medicine transcends borders globally. | :48:00. | :48:01. | |
Right now, all goods to and from Europe do as well. | :48:02. | :48:04. | |
All 15,000 containers on this ship could come off at Felixstowe, | :48:05. | :48:07. | |
But if we leave the customs union, Britain's | :48:08. | :48:18. | |
busiest container port might have to start taking a look | :48:19. | :48:20. | |
at what is inside containers that come from the continent. | :48:21. | :48:23. | |
44% of the country's containers arrive in Suffolk, | :48:24. | :48:25. | |
A quarter of these container's content come from the EU. | :48:26. | :48:34. | |
I think the ports could end up being losers because they will have | :48:35. | :48:37. | |
to invest more time and money in making space and people | :48:38. | :48:39. | |
available to do inspections for security checks, | :48:40. | :48:41. | |
The point at the moment, when cargo comes in, | :48:42. | :48:48. | |
it is all governed around the European Union and their checks. | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
If the Government decide to keep the checks the same, then it should | :48:54. | :48:56. | |
But it is the other type of port where the most challenging Brexit | :48:57. | :49:02. | |
Luton and Stansted took off with the boom in budget airlines. | :49:03. | :49:15. | |
The EU created a free aviation area, which today often makes it cheaper | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
to fly to Copenhagen and get a train from here to Clapton. | :49:20. | :49:25. | |
All along the ?60 billion aviation industry, they are watching | :49:26. | :49:27. | |
and lobbying to keep the status quo with the EU. | :49:28. | :49:30. | |
I think it is a priority that we need to really strike | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
with Government that they need to prioritise in terms | :49:35. | :49:36. | |
of that open access, that single aviation | :49:37. | :49:38. | |
The lobbying that we are doing with our partners, airlines | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
and other airports is to ensure that that is the number one priority. | :49:43. | :49:45. | |
The Department for Transport have and the Government have | :49:46. | :49:47. | |
Most airlines were against Britain leaving the EU. | :49:48. | :49:52. | |
Recently, Ryanair has said that it will still expand | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
here at its main base, adding more flights from Stansted. | :49:58. | :50:01. | |
But Brexit brings uncertainty, and elsewhere, airlines are waiting | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
to see what deal is struck with Europe over the skies. | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
Here were medals were won in 2012, the loudest Leave voice was heard. | :50:10. | :50:23. | |
Castle Point voted 74% for Brexit, the pressure to please the people | :50:24. | :50:26. | |
and make a Team GB style success of our future outside of the EU | :50:27. | :50:32. | |
You have got ports in Suffolk, the airport at Stansted. | :50:33. | :50:38. | |
Are you convinced that everything will be OK when we pull out? | :50:39. | :50:42. | |
There is no way of knowing sitting here. | :50:43. | :50:44. | |
As I have also to my constituents corresponding about this | :50:45. | :50:52. | |
since the Referendum, the key thing is we are about to | :50:53. | :50:54. | |
It is difficult to predict what will come from that. | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
My view has always been, once we decide to leave, the priority | :50:59. | :51:01. | |
is to have a negotiation which is good spirited. | :51:02. | :51:03. | |
By that, I mean we are seeking a deal that is good for both parties. | :51:04. | :51:06. | |
If it happens like that, I think we will reach a good deal. | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
Do you really think it will be like that? | :51:11. | :51:12. | |
I think most accept that, when it starts, there will be | :51:13. | :51:19. | |
the usual sort of playing to the gallery and so on. | :51:20. | :51:22. | |
It might be confrontational to some extent. | :51:23. | :51:23. | |
There will be the influence of elections. | :51:24. | :51:27. | |
When all is said and done, it is in both parties' interest | :51:28. | :51:29. | |
The alternative is highly uncertain for both sides | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
You wanted to remain, yet you wanted to pull out, | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
and you have an airport at home in Luton? | :51:38. | :51:40. | |
With the shortage of capacity in the South East which is going | :51:41. | :51:58. | |
to go on for a long time yet, Luton can fill up. | :51:59. | :52:01. | |
We are at the moment expanding and I think it is going to continue | :52:02. | :52:04. | |
to expand more quickly than investments can go in. | :52:05. | :52:06. | |
And we are investing massively as well. | :52:07. | :52:08. | |
I am very optimistic about Luton, and it is a major part | :52:09. | :52:11. | |
As far as Brexit in general is concerned, I think | :52:12. | :52:18. | |
Already, experts are starting to increase, manufacturing | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
is going to benefit from the lower value of the pound, and we have | :52:23. | :52:25. | |
seen massive investments going into motor industry... | :52:26. | :52:28. | |
The big question for the motor industry. | :52:29. | :52:31. | |
The fact is, we have had big investment planned | :52:32. | :52:36. | |
Just today, we have heard that Toyota making massive | :52:37. | :52:40. | |
They did say they wanted reassurances about what was going | :52:41. | :52:43. | |
But the reality is, we're massive net importers of motor vehicles. | :52:44. | :52:54. | |
If the pound stays down at a sensible level as it is now, | :52:55. | :52:57. | |
the advantage of investing in Britain rather than elsewhere | :52:58. | :52:59. | |
Already, Vauxhall in Luton, the new owners have said | :53:00. | :53:05. | |
they are looking at expanding the supply chain in Britain | :53:06. | :53:08. | |
because it would be the sensible thing to do given that the pound has | :53:09. | :53:11. | |
depreciated to a more sensible level. | :53:12. | :53:13. | |
There were always benefits and negatives to both sides. | :53:14. | :53:20. | |
Obviously, the biggest benefit of leaving is that | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
eventually we will be able to negotiate our own trade deal. | :53:27. | :53:29. | |
I never disputed that things like that would be | :53:30. | :53:31. | |
He seems confident that there is no risk. | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
Hopefully it is outweighed by the potential for this | :53:36. | :53:40. | |
My view is the key to it is the nature of a negotiation. | :53:41. | :53:47. | |
As I say, if it sort of unravels and becomes confrontational, | :53:48. | :53:49. | |
then I think that the markets will be unsteady, I think | :53:50. | :53:52. | |
the country will be nervous, investors will be uncertain. | :53:53. | :53:55. | |
I am confident that will not prevail in the long term | :53:56. | :53:58. | |
because it is in both side's interest to come to a good deal. | :53:59. | :54:01. | |
First of all, I entirely understand from the public point of view | :54:02. | :54:15. | |
That we could have an area of immigration from the EU | :54:16. | :54:21. | |
Clearly they have partly voted to leave in order to control that. | :54:22. | :54:27. | |
I think we do have to be honest and say that the country | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
will still need immigration because they are such an important | :54:32. | :54:33. | |
part of our labour force, they do a fantastic job. | :54:34. | :54:35. | |
They work so hard. We should be open about that. | :54:36. | :54:44. | |
But I think we will have a deal that has some control. | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
Just seven days after being announced in the budget, | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
the Government has scrapped a plan to increase National Insurance | :54:54. | :54:55. | |
In what has been called a screeching U-turn, | :54:56. | :54:58. | |
the Chancellor Philip Hammond admitted that it was breaking | :54:59. | :55:00. | |
the spirit if not the letter of a manifesto pledge. | :55:01. | :55:02. | |
But it was Conservative backbenchers like Stevenage MP Stephen McPartland | :55:03. | :55:08. | |
Earlier this week, I spoke to him about whether the plan | :55:09. | :55:14. | |
flew in the face of Conservative values. | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
This is something that has come out of a civil servant's bottom drawer, | :55:19. | :55:24. | |
At the end of the day, there is issues arounds people | :55:25. | :55:34. | |
who are self-employed paying slightly less National Insurance | :55:35. | :55:36. | |
You know, those people have often set up the risk | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
of creating their own small business, many of which | :55:41. | :55:42. | |
They are the backbone of our economy. | :55:43. | :55:45. | |
Also, they don't really get maternity pay or holiday pay, | :55:46. | :55:47. | |
statutory sick pay, other benefits that people who are employed to get. | :55:48. | :55:50. | |
To try and say that we are going to equalise National Insurance | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
of it is fair because they receive the same benefits, it | :55:55. | :55:57. | |
There is an argument that says everybody should pay the same amount | :55:58. | :56:01. | |
If everybody is receiving the same benefits for their contribution | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
to National Insurance, that is something that | :56:06. | :56:07. | |
As I have said, those people who are self employed | :56:08. | :56:12. | |
receive holiday pay, sick pay, maternity | :56:13. | :56:13. | |
There is a whole variety of benefits they do not receive. | :56:14. | :56:17. | |
This isn't the first time you have been a lightning rod. | :56:18. | :56:19. | |
You stood up to the Government over tax credits. | :56:20. | :56:21. | |
You are beginning to get yourself a reputation. | :56:22. | :56:23. | |
From our point of view, I have spoken on a number of issues. | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
And been successful on almost all of those issues. | :56:29. | :56:30. | |
Occasionally, you have to stand up and speak out and say, | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
I am standing up for ordinary working families in my constituency | :56:35. | :56:37. | |
I am happy to speak out and if the members of Parliament | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
are happy for me to do that, I am pleased. | :56:43. | :56:44. | |
I don't speak on anybody else's behalf, I speak on my own. | :56:45. | :56:47. | |
What does this say about the opposition when backbenchers | :56:48. | :56:50. | |
are the people who seem to be holding the Government to account? | :56:51. | :56:53. | |
The one on tax credits was done inside the Conservative Party. | :56:54. | :57:03. | |
They don't recognise the problems, they don't know what is coming down | :57:04. | :57:08. | |
the line, they don't really do their homework. | :57:09. | :57:10. | |
It does fall on the Conservative parliamentary party to actually go | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
through everything in detail and provide holding the Government | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
to account type of organisation because the opposition | :57:19. | :57:20. | |
Stephen McPartland, thank you very much. | :57:21. | :57:23. | |
Kelvin Hopkins, the opposition is incredibly weak. | :57:24. | :57:29. | |
He would say that, but I think the Government has got it wrong. | :57:30. | :57:36. | |
Come on, it is Conservative backbenchers who are holding | :57:37. | :57:39. | |
the Chancellor to account, not the opposition. | :57:40. | :57:45. | |
When we were in the New Labour Government, it was often | :57:46. | :57:48. | |
backbenchers like myself, Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell | :57:49. | :57:51. | |
who made the Government change its mind on a number of issues. | :57:52. | :57:57. | |
Because that is what backbenchers as opposed to do. | :57:58. | :57:59. | |
I think the Government is refusing to grasp the nettle | :58:00. | :58:02. | |
of collecting the taxes which are avoided and evaded. | :58:03. | :58:04. | |
This tax change was going to produce ?2 billion per year. | :58:05. | :58:08. | |
Mr Corbyn was criticised for his performance at PM's | :58:09. | :58:19. | |
Mr Corbyn was criticised for his performance at PM's Question Time. | :58:20. | :58:21. | |
He were the first person to put his name in the hat. | :58:22. | :58:25. | |
I wasn't in Prime Minister's questions this week, I didn't see. | :58:26. | :58:37. | |
On the other hand, I stand by Jeremy. | :58:38. | :58:39. | |
I think he represents historic Labour values and millions | :58:40. | :58:43. | |
I think that is the way, he is the one for us. | :58:44. | :58:47. | |
When you look, I mean, where you one of the backbenchers | :58:48. | :58:50. | |
Are you reluctant to join in with these? | :58:51. | :58:57. | |
I look to the underlying picture here, and that is that I respect | :58:58. | :59:01. | |
the fact people to take risks starting a business. | :59:02. | :59:03. | |
But we have an unavoidable mathematical fact which is | :59:04. | :59:06. | |
that the cost of delivering welfare including the NHS, the state | :59:07. | :59:09. | |
pension and many other benefits is increasing. | :59:10. | :59:11. | |
You think the NIC increase was right? | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
Think the underlying policy is right. | :59:17. | :59:18. | |
We do have a huge change in the economy here. | :59:19. | :59:20. | |
We have less tax coming in from more and more people | :59:21. | :59:23. | |
We can choose to become more and more in depth as a country | :59:24. | :59:27. | |
I think that's the way that the Chancellor executed it, | :59:28. | :59:32. | |
in respect of the reaction to what was in the manifesto, we are | :59:33. | :59:35. | |
But the underlying policy direction he will pursue, I welcome that. | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
I think the country will have to come to terms with the fact that, | :59:40. | :59:43. | |
when the economy changes, policy has to change with it. | :59:44. | :59:45. | |
Are there other things they are going to have to do | :59:46. | :59:48. | |
a U-turn on, do you think from the Budget and recent policies? | :59:49. | :59:51. | |
We will have to wait and see on that one. | :59:52. | :59:53. | |
I think that the broader direction is very sensible. | :59:54. | :59:55. | |
We are very fortunate to have such low unemployment. | :59:56. | :00:05. | |
I think we should remember how lucky we are compared | :00:06. | :00:07. | |
They'll will still be decisions to make in the future. | :00:08. | :00:10. | |
Is it a strong man who changes his mind, or somebody who doesn't | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
If someone says, you have got it wrong and they prove their point, | :00:15. | :00:18. | |
John Maynard Keynes, perhaps the greatest intellectual | :00:19. | :00:21. | |
of the 20th century in Britain, said always used to say that. | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
Now for our 60 Second round up of the week with Deborah. | :00:25. | :00:31. | |
In the wake of January's flood warnings for the East Anglian Coast | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
a new report has identified 64 problems and mistakes | :00:35. | :00:36. | |
I think there are some big lessons to learn. | :00:37. | :00:43. | |
But I think of the smaller things, sometimes it is human error, | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
sometimes a systematic failure, but the important thing | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
is that they are going to address it for the future from the review. | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
MP WIll Quint is hoping that some of the money earmarked for accident | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
and emergency departments in the last week's budget | :01:00. | :01:01. | |
Colchester Hospital's A E department has excellent staff, | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
but suffers from poor layout and patient flow. | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
Warnings that withdrawing from the EU will cost | :01:10. | :01:11. | |
They do not worry long-time Brexiteer Peter Bone. | :01:12. | :01:26. | |
When you have a divorce, don't you split the net amount in two ? | :01:27. | :01:29. | |
So that would be ?92 billion that should be paid back to us. | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
Did the Prime Minister have the chance to bring this up? | :01:35. | :01:36. | |
And Boaty McBoatface. Finally gets an outing. | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
Scientists from the Cambridge-based British Antarctic Survey | :01:40. | :01:41. | |
will be heading off for its first expedition. | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
Both of you, thank you very much for being with us this week. | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
pricing of these buildings. Thank you both. Say goodbye. Goodbye. Back | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
to you. So, can George Osborne stay | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
on as a member of Parliament Will Conservative backbenchers force | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
a Government re-think And is Theresa May about to cap gas | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
and electricity prices? Whose idea was that first of all? | :02:08. | :02:20. | |
They are all questions for the Week Ahead to. | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
Let's start with the story that is too much fun to miss, on Friday it | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
was announced the former Chancellor would be the new editor of London's | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
Evening Standard newspaper, a position he will take up in mid-May | :02:36. | :02:42. | |
on a salary of ?200,000 for four days a week. | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
But Mr Osborne has said he will not be stepping down as MP | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
for Tatton in Cheshire, a job he's held since 2001, | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
Alongside these duties, he's also chairman of | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
While being committed to one day a week at Black Rock, | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
an American asset management firm - a part-time role that earns him | :03:02. | :03:04. | |
Then he's polishing his academic credentials, as a fellow | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
at the McCain Institute, an American thinktank, | :03:10. | :03:11. | |
And finally as a member of the Washington Speaker's Bureau, | :03:12. | :03:19. | |
he also earns his keep as an after-dinner speaker, banking | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
around ?750,000 since last summer. | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
So there you go. Nice little earners if you can get them. The problem, | :03:30. | :03:39. | |
though, is he has put second jobs on the agenda and lots of his fellow | :03:40. | :03:42. | |
MPs are not happy because they have got second jobs but not making that | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
kind of money. No, and a lot of MPs on both sides actually are unhappy | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
about it exactly for those reasons. I find it a very interesting | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
appointment. We have got these people on the centre and centre | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
right of politics who have been used to power since 1997, they have been | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
on the airwaves today, Tony Blair, Nick Clegg, George Osborne, and they | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
are all seeking other platforms now because power has moved elsewhere. | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
So Tony Blair is setting up this new foundation, Nick Clegg refused to | :04:16. | :04:17. | |
condemn George Osborne, Tony Blair praised the appointment. They are | :04:18. | :04:24. | |
all searching for new platforms. They might have overestimated the | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
degree to which this will be a huge influential platform. The standard | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
was very pro-Tory at the 2015 election but London voted Labour, it | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
was pro-Zac Goldsmith but they elected Sadiq Khan. It might be | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
overestimating the degree to which this is a hugely influential paper. | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
But I can see why it attracts him as a platform when all these platforms | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
have disappeared, eg power and government. All of these people who | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
used to be in power are quietly getting together again, Mr Blair on | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
television this morning, George Osborne not only filling his bank | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
account but now in charge of London's most important newspaper, | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
Nick Clegg out today not saying Brexit was a done deal, waiting to | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
see what happens, even John Major was wheeled out again today in the | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
Mail on Sunday. They are all playing for position. I half expect David | :05:22. | :05:24. | |
Cameron to turn up as features editor on The Evening Standard. | :05:25. | :05:32. | |
Brexit and breakfast! With Mr Clegg, did he not? I do not think this is | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
sustainable for George Osborne, I worked at The Evening Standard and I | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
was there for three years, I know what the hours are like for a humble | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
journalist, never mind the editor. If he thinks he can get at 4am | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
everyday to be in the offices at 5am to oversee the splash, manage | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
everything in the way and edited should he is in cloud cuckoo land. | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
What this says to people is there is a kind of feel of soft corruption | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
about public life here, where you see what you can get away with. He | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
thinks he can brazen this out and maybe he can but what kind of | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
message does that send to people about how seriously people take the | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
role of being an MP? He must have known. He applied for the job. The | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
Russian owner didn't approach him, he approached Lebedev, the | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
proprietor, for it. He must have calculated there would be some | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
kickback. I wonder if he realised there would be quite the kickback | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
there has been. I think that's probably right. This hasn't finished | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
yet, by the way, this will go on and on. How on earth does George Osborne | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
cover the budget in the autumn? Big budget, lots of physical changes and | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
tax rises to deal with the messages out of this week. You can see | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
already, Theresa May budget crashes. It could be worse. She's useless! | :06:50. | :06:57. | |
Or, worse than that, me, brilliant budget, terrible newspaper, I've | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
never buying it again. He has hoisted his own petard. He has not | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
bought it properly through. It's a something interesting about his own | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
future calculations, if he wants to stay on as an MP in 2020 and be | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
Prime Minister as he has or was wanted to be he has got to find a | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
new seat. How do you go into an association and say I should be an | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
MP, I can do it for at least four hours Purdy after editing The | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
Evening Standard, making a big speech and telling Black Rock how to | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
make a big profit. The feature pages have to be approved for the next day | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
and feature pages are aware the editor gets to make their mark. The | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
news is the news. The feature is what concerns you, what he is in | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
your bonnet. That defines the newspaper, doesn't it? It is not | :07:48. | :07:54. | |
over yet. Too much 101 on newspapers. And Haatheq at. | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
School funding, the consultation period ends, it has been a tricky | :08:01. | :08:07. | |
one for the government, some areas losing. I guess we are seeing this | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
through the prism of the National Insurance contributions now, it is a | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
small majority, if Tory MPs are unhappy she may not get her way. | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
Talking to backbench MPs who are unhappy the feeling is it is not | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
going to go ahead in the proposed form that the consultation has been | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
on. No 10 will definitely have to move on this. It is unclear whether | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
they will scrap it completely, or will they bring in something | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
possibly like a base level, floor level pupil funding below which you | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
can't go? You would then still need to find some extra money. So there | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
are no easy solutions on this but what is clear it is not going to go | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
ahead in its current form. Parents have been getting letters across the | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
country in England about what this will mean for teachers and so on in | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
certain schools. It's not just a matter of the education Department, | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
the schools, or the teachers and Tory backbenchers. Parents are being | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
mobilised on this. The point of the new funding formula is to allocate | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
more money to the more disadvantaged. That means schools in | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
the more prosperous suburbs are going to lose money. Budget cuts on | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
schools which are already struggling. It comes down again to | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
be huge problem, the ever smaller fiscal pool, ever greater demands, | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
NHS, social care, education as well, adding to Theresa May and Phillip | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
Hammond's enormous problems. Here is an interesting issue, Steve. There | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
was a labour Leader of the Opposition that once suggested | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
perhaps given these huge energy companies which seemed to be good at | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
passing on energy rises but not so good at cutting energy prices when | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
it falls, that perhaps we should put a cap on them until at least we | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
study how the market goes. This was obviously ludicrous Marxism and | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
quite rightly knocked down by the Conservatives, except that Mrs May | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
is now talking about putting a cap on energy prices. Yes, I think if it | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
wasn't for Brexit we would focus much more on Theresa May's Ed | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
Miliband streak. Whether this translates into policies, let us | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
see. That bit we don't know. That bit we don't know but in terms of | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
argument her speech to the Conservative conference on Friday | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
was about the third or fourth time where she said as part of the | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
speech, let's focus on the good that government can do, including in | :10:35. | :10:36. | |
intervening in markets, exactly in the way that he used to argue. As | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
you say, we await the policy consequences of that. She seems more | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
cautious in terms of policy in fermentation. But in terms of the | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
industrial strategy, in terms of implying intervention in certain | :10:52. | :10:53. | |
markets, there is a kind of Milibandesque streak. And there | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
comes a time when she has to walk the walk as well as talk the talk. | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
They talk a lot about the just about managing, just about managing face | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
rising food bills because of the lower pound and face rising fuel | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
bills because of the rise in oil and in other commodities. One of the two | :11:13. | :11:19. | |
things you could do to help the just about managing is to cut their food | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
bills and the second would be to cut their fuel bills. At some stage she | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
has to do something for them. We don't know what is going to happen | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
to food bills under Brexit, that could become a really serious issue. | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
They could abolish tariffs. There has been a lot of talking the talk | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
and big announcements put out and not following through so I agree | :11:39. | :11:41. | |
with you on that but lots of Tory MPs will have a big problem on | :11:42. | :11:55. | |
this and the principle of continually talking about | :11:56. | :11:57. | |
interfering in markets, whether it's on executive pay, whether it is on | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
energy, at a time when Britain needs to send out this message to the | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
world in their view, in the view of Brexit supporting MPs, that we are | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
open for business and the government is not about poking around and doing | :12:07. | :12:08. | |
this kind of thing. Of course, you could argue there is not a problem | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
in the market for energy, it is a malfunctioning market that doesn't | :12:12. | :12:13. | |
operate like a free market should, so that provides even Adam Smith, | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
the inventor of market economics would have said on that basis you | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
should intervene. I was in Cardiff to listen to Theresa May's latest | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
explanation for doing this. By the way, we've been waiting nine months, | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
this was one of her big ideas. You are right, let's see a bit of the | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
meat, please. My newspaper has been calling for some pretty hefty | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
government action on this for quite some time. For the just about | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
managings? Yes and specifically to sort out an energy market dominated | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
by the big six, which is manifestly ripping people off left, right and | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
centre. Theresa May's argument in Cardiff on Friday morning which, by | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
the way, went down like a proverbial windbreak at the proverbial funeral | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
because Tories... You know what I mean Andrew, the big hand coming | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
into from the state telling businesses what to do. They went | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
very quiet indeed. They were having saving the union and Nato but there | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
was no clapping for that. The point being, this is what she needs to do | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
to prove her assault, to prove those first words on the steps of Downing | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
Street. We await to see the actions taken. | :13:21. | :13:22. | |
On that unusual agreement we will leave it there. The Daily Politics | :13:23. | :13:30. | |
will be back on BBC Two tomorrow at noon and everyday during the week. | :13:31. | :13:32. | |
And I'll be here on BBC One next Sunday at 11am. | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:36. | :14:19. | |
I've not given myself that time to sit down | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
Two years ago, former England captain Rio Ferdinand lost his wife | :14:26. | :14:29. |