Browse content similar to 02/04/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
It's Sunday Morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
The Government has insisted that Gibraltar will not be bargained | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
But the territory's chief minister says the EU's proposal | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
After a momentous week, Britain's journey out | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
Can the Prime Minister satisfy her critics at home | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
We speak to the former Conservative leader, Michael Howard. | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
And we have the lowdown on next month's local elections - | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
what exactly is up for grabs, who's going up and who's going down? | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
Here in the East: Our MEPs say they can help sort out Brexit | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
now that formal negotiations are about to begin. | :01:15. | :01:16. | |
And hundreds of seats on our county councils up for grabs. | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
changing their minds. MPs from opposing sides give the view from | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
there constituencies. And with me, as always, | :01:23. | :01:30. | |
the best and the brightest political panel in the business - | :01:31. | :01:32. | |
Steve Richards, Isabel Oakeshott and Tom Newton Dunn who'll be | :01:33. | :01:34. | |
tweeting throughout the programme. For the people of Gibraltar, Clause | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
22 of the EU's draft negotiating guidelines came as something | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
of a shock. The guidelines propose | :01:44. | :01:45. | |
that the Government in Spain be given a veto over any future trade | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
deal as it applies to The UK Government has reacted | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
strongly, saying Gibraltar will not be bargained away | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
in the Brexit talks. Here's the Defence Secretary, | :02:00. | :02:01. | |
Michael Fallon, speaking We are going to look | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
after Gibraltar. Gibraltar's going to be protected | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
all the way, all the way, because the sovereignty of Gibraltar | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
cannot be changed without the agreement of the people | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
of Gibraltar and they have made it very clear they do not | :02:21. | :02:22. | |
want to live under Spanish rule and it is interesting, I think, | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
in the draft guidelines from the EU that Spain is not saying | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
that the whole thing is subject Michael Fallon earlier. Steve, is | :02:29. | :02:40. | |
this a Spanish power grab or much ado about nothing? It could be both. | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
Clearly what is happening about this negotiation and will happen again | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
and again is that at different points individual countries can | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
start playing bargaining cards. They will say, if you want a deal, you | :02:55. | :03:01. | |
have to deliver this, UK. Spain is doing it early. It might turn out to | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
be nothing at all. It is an early example of how to delete recruit | :03:06. | :03:12. | |
after Article 50 is triggered, the dynamic -- how after Article 50 is | :03:13. | :03:20. | |
triggered, the dynamic changes. At certain points, any country can veto | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
it. It gives them much more power than we have clocked so far. Donald | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
Tusk, the head of the European Council, he went out of his way to | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
say Britain mustn't deal by laterally, with individual | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
countries, it has to deal with the EU as a block. Was it mischiefmaking | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
to add this bit in about Spain? Those two things do not tally. I | :03:45. | :03:52. | |
think on our part, when I say we, I mean the Foreign Office and Number | :03:53. | :03:59. | |
10, we dropped the ball. By excluding Gibraltar from the letter | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
of Article 50, they gave an opportunity to the Spanish to steal | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
the narrative. Why this is important, presentation, things | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
looked like they were going quite well for Theresa May when she handed | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
over the letter, for a few hours, and suddenly, you have this | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
incredible symbolism of Gibraltar. For Brexiteers, the idea that there | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
could be some kind of diminishment or failure in relation to Gibraltar, | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
it would be a very symbolic illustration of things not going | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
entirely to plan. Forget the detail, it does not look great. Gibraltar | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
got mentions in the white paper. They did not get a mention in the | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
Article 50 notification. Do you think the British Government did not | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
see this coming? To be honest, I do not think it would make a bit of | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
difference. Theresa May could have an entire chapter in her letter to | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
Donald Tusk and the Spanish and the EU would have still tried this on. | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
For me, it was as much a point of symbolism than it was for any power | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
grab. It was a good point to make. You need to know, Britain, you are | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
not in our club, we will not have your interests at heart. Officials | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
after the press conference, they went on to talk about it saying it | :05:20. | :05:26. | |
is a territorial dispute. It is not! Gibraltar is British. It is very | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
much a shot across the bow is. Whether it comes to pass, it is | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
still yet to be seen. I feel we will be chasing hares like this for the | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
next few years. There will be many other examples. They are greatly | :05:41. | :05:47. | |
empowered by the whole process. Britain has not really got... It has | :05:48. | :05:54. | |
got to wait and hear what their interpretation of Brexit is. They | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
will negotiate, we will negotiate accordingly. I have some sympathy | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
about the letter, the Article 50 letter. They agonised over it, so | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
much to get right in terms of balance and tone. It would have been | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
absurd to start mentioning Skegness and everything else. Why not! | :06:11. | :06:22. | |
Skegness, what did they do? It is a real example of how the dynamic now | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
changes. The Spanish royals are going to come here in a couple of | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
months, that could be interesting. It will be good feelings breaking | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
up, I am sure. -- breaking out. So, after a historic week, | :06:37. | :06:45. | |
the UK is now very much But will it be a smooth | :06:46. | :06:47. | |
journey to the exit door? Or can we expect | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
a bit of turbulence? Are you taking back | :06:52. | :06:53. | |
control, Prime Minister? Big days in politics usually | :06:54. | :06:56. | |
involve people shouting and the Prime Minister getting | :06:57. | :06:58. | |
in a car. It is only a few hundred metres | :06:59. | :07:00. | |
from Downing Street to Parliament. But the short journey is the start | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
of a much longer one and we do not know exactly | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
where we will all end up. This is a historic moment | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
from which there can Moments earlier, this Dear John, | :07:12. | :07:13. | |
sorry, Dear Don letter, was delivered by Britain's | :07:14. | :07:22. | |
ambassador in Brussels to the EU He seemed genuinely upset | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
to have been jilted. Back in Westminster, | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
hacks from around the world were trying to work out what it | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
all meant for the So, here it is, a copy | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
of the six-page letter The letter reaffirms the PM's | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
proposal to have talks on the exit deal and a future trade deal | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
at the same time. It also mentioned the word | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
"security" 11 times and stated a failure to reach agreement | :07:53. | :07:54. | |
would mean cooperation in the fight against crime | :07:55. | :07:56. | |
and terrorism would be weakened. Later, our very own Andrew got | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
to ask her what would happen if Britain left the European | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
policing agency, Europol. We would not be able to access | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
information in the same way as we would as a member, | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
so it is important, I think, we are able to negotiate | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
a continuing relationship that enables us to work together | :08:18. | :08:19. | |
in the way that we have. That night, the | :08:20. | :08:21. | |
Brexiteers were happy. We did not have a Mad | :08:22. | :08:23. | |
Hatter, but now we do. Down the street, even the Remainers, | :08:24. | :08:30. | |
having a Mad Hatters' tea party, I am not sure that is | :08:31. | :08:33. | |
actually Boris, though. The next morning, the papers | :08:34. | :08:42. | |
suggested Theresa May would use security as a bargaining tool | :08:43. | :08:57. | |
and threaten to withdraw the UK's cooperation in this area | :08:58. | :08:57. | |
if no deal was struck. Downing Street denied it, | :08:58. | :08:58. | |
as did the Brexit Secretary. We can both cope, but we | :08:59. | :08:58. | |
will both be worse off. That seems to be a statement | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
of fact, it is not a threat, David Davis had other | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
business that morning, introducing the Great Repeal Bill, | :09:05. | :09:07. | |
outling his plans to transfer all EU law into British | :09:08. | :09:09. | |
law to change later, It is not without its critics | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
but the Brexit Secretary said, among other benefits, | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
it would make trade talks easier As we exit the EU and seek | :09:18. | :09:19. | |
a new deep and special partnership with the European Union, | :09:20. | :09:26. | |
we are doing so from a position where we have the same | :09:27. | :09:28. | |
standards and rules. It will also ensure we deliver | :09:29. | :09:30. | |
on our promise to end the supremacy of European Union law | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
in the UK as we exit. There was, though, a small | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
issue with the name. The Government hit an early hurdle | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
with the Great Repeal Bill. Parliamentary draughtsmen said | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
they were not allowed Great(!) | :09:50. | :09:51. | |
so it is just the Repeal Bill. So far, it had been | :09:52. | :09:59. | |
a tale of two cities. By Friday, there was another, | :10:00. | :10:01. | |
Valletta in Malta, where EU leaders were having a meeting | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
and President Tusk, yes, him again, set out draft guidelines | :10:06. | :10:07. | |
for the EU Brexit strategy. Once, and only once, | :10:08. | :10:14. | |
we have achieved sufficient progress on the withdrawal can we discuss | :10:15. | :10:17. | |
the framework for our Starting parallel talks | :10:18. | :10:19. | |
on all issues at the same time, as suggested by some in the UK, | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
will not happen. The EU 27 does not and will not | :10:24. | :10:32. | |
pursue a punitive approach. Brexit in itself is | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
already punitive enough. The pressure on Theresa May to get | :10:37. | :10:43. | |
the Brexit process going has now gone and the stage is being set | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
elsewhere for the showdown But face-to-face discussions | :10:47. | :10:48. | |
are not likely to happen Before May or early June. No one is | :10:49. | :10:59. | |
celebrating just yet. We're joined now from Kent | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
by the former Conservative The EU says it will not talk about a | :11:06. | :11:13. | |
future relationship with the UK until there has been sufficient | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
progress on agreeing the divorce bill. Should the UK agree to this | :11:17. | :11:24. | |
phased approach? Well, I think you can make too much about the sequence | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
and timing of the negotiations. I assume that it will be a case of | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
nothing is agreed until everything is agreed and so any agreements that | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
might be reached on things talked about early on will be very | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
provisional, so I think you can make a big deal about the timing and the | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
sequence when I do not think it really matters as much as all that. | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
Don't people have a right in this country to be surprised of the talk | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
of a massive multi-billion pound divorce settlement? I do not | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
remember either side making much of this in the referendum, do you? No. | :12:02. | :12:09. | |
A select committee of the House of Lords recently reported and said | :12:10. | :12:12. | |
that there was no legal basis for any exit fee. We will have to see | :12:13. | :12:19. | |
how the negotiations go. I think some of the figures cited so far are | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
wildly out of kilter and wildly unrealistic. We will have to see | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
what happens in the negotiations. As one of your panel commented earlier, | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
there will be lots of hares to pursue over the next couple of years | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
and we should not get too excited about any of them. Would you accept | :12:39. | :12:45. | |
that we make... It may not be anything like the figures Brussels | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
is kicking around of 50, 60 billion euros, do you think we will have to | :12:50. | :12:57. | |
make a one-off settlement? If we get everything else we want, if we get a | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
really good trade deal and access for the City of London and so on, | :13:04. | :13:09. | |
speaking for myself, I would be prepared to make a modest payment. | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
But it all depends on the deal we get. What would modest be? Oh, I | :13:13. | :13:22. | |
cannot give you a figure. We are right at the start of the | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
negotiations. I do not think that would be agreed until near the end. | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
The EU says that if there is a transition period of several years | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
after the negotiations, and there is more talk of that, the UK must | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
remain subject to the free movement of peoples and the jurisdiction of | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
the European Court of Justice, would that be acceptable to you? It | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
depends on the nature of the transitional agreement. We are | :13:50. | :13:52. | |
getting well ahead of ourselves here. You cannot, I think, for any | :13:53. | :13:59. | |
judgment as to whether there should be a transitional stage until you | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
know what the final deal is. If there is to be a final deal. And | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
then you know how long it might take to implement that deal. That is | :14:08. | :14:15. | |
something I think that it is really rather futile to talk about at this | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
stage. It may become relevant, depending on the nature of the deal, | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
and that is the proper time to talk about it and decide what the answer | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
to the questions you pose might be. Except the EU has laid this out in | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
its negotiation mandate and it is reasonable to ask people like | :14:33. | :14:39. | |
yourself, should we accept that? It is reasonable for me to say, they | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
will raise all sorts of things in their negotiating mandate and we do | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
not need to form a view of all of them at this stage. Let me try | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
another one. The EU says if they do agree what you have called a | :14:52. | :14:54. | |
comprehensive free trade deal, we would have to accept EU constraints | :14:55. | :15:00. | |
on state aid and taxes like VAT and corporation tax. Would you accept | :15:01. | :15:07. | |
that? Again, I am not sure quite what they have in mind on that. We | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
will be an independent country when we leave and we will make our own | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
decisions about those matters. Not according to know that -- to the | :15:18. | :15:24. | |
negotiating mandate. As I have said, they can put all sorts of things in | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
the negotiating guidelines, it does not mean we have to agree with them. | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
No doubt that is something we can discuss in the context of a free | :15:34. | :15:39. | |
trade agreement. If we get a free trade agreement, that is very | :15:40. | :15:42. | |
important for them as well as for us, and we can talk about some of | :15:43. | :15:44. | |
the things you have just mentioned. Can you please leave a 20 without | :15:45. | :15:56. | |
having repatriated full control of migration, taxis and the law? I | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
think we will have repatriated all three of those things by the time of | :16:03. | :16:09. | |
the next general election. How high would you rate the chances of no | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
deal, and does that prospect worry you? I think the chances are we will | :16:13. | :16:19. | |
get the deal, and I think the chances are we will get a good deal, | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
because that is in the interests of both sides of this negotiation. But | :16:24. | :16:31. | |
it is not the end of the world if we do not get a deal. Most trade in the | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
world is carried out under World Trade Organisation rules. We would | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
be perfectly OK if we traded with the European Union, as with | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
everybody else, under World Trade Organisation rules. It is better to | :16:45. | :16:48. | |
get the deal, and I think we will get the deal, because it is in the | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
interests of both. Let me ask you about Gibraltar. You have campaigned | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
in Gibraltar when the sovereignty issue came up under the Tony Blair | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
government. The EU says that Spain should have a veto on whether any | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
free-trade deal should apply to the Rock. How should the British | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
government replied to that? As it has responded, by making it | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
absolutely clear that we will stand by Gibraltar. 35 years ago this | :17:18. | :17:24. | |
week, Andrew, another woman Prime Minister Centre task force is | :17:25. | :17:27. | |
halfway across the world to protect another small group of British | :17:28. | :17:30. | |
people against another Spanish-speaking country. I am | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
absolutely clear that our current woman Prime Minister will show the | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
same resolve in relation to Gibraltar as her predecessor did. | :17:41. | :17:51. | |
This is not about Spain invading Gibraltar, it is not even about | :17:52. | :17:53. | |
sovereignty, it is about Spain having a veto over whether any | :17:54. | :17:56. | |
free-trade deal that the UK makes with the EU should also apply to | :17:57. | :17:59. | |
Gibraltar. On that issue, how should the British government respond? The | :18:00. | :18:05. | |
British government should show resolve. It is not in the interests | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
of Spain, really, to interfere with free trade to Gibraltar. 10,000 | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
people who live in Spain working Gibraltar. That is a very important | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
Spanish interest, so I am very confident that in the end, we will | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
be able to look after all the interests of Gibraltar, including | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
free trade. Michael Howard, thank you for joining us from Kent this | :18:30. | :18:30. | |
morning. Although sometimes it seems | :18:31. | :18:33. | |
like everyone has forgotten, there are things happening | :18:34. | :18:35. | |
other than Brexit. In less than five weeks' time, | :18:36. | :18:37. | |
there will be a round of important domestic elections and there's a lot | :18:38. | :18:40. | |
up for grabs. Local elections take place | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
on the 4th of May in England, In England, there are elections | :18:44. | :18:46. | |
in 34 councils, with 2,370 The majority are county councils, | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
usually areas of strength Large cities where Labour usually | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
fares better are not Six regions of England will also | :18:58. | :19:04. | |
hold elections for newly created combined authority mayors, | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
and there will be contests for directly elected mayors, | :19:09. | :19:11. | |
with voters in Manchester, Liverpool and the West Midlands | :19:12. | :19:17. | |
among those going to the polls. In Scotland, every seat in all 32 | :19:18. | :19:20. | |
councils are being contested, many of them affected | :19:21. | :19:23. | |
by boundary changes. Since these seats were last | :19:24. | :19:25. | |
contested, Labour lost all but one Meanwhile, every seat in each | :19:26. | :19:28. | |
of Wales' 22 councils All but one was last elected | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
in 2012 in what was a very strong year for Labour, | :19:34. | :19:40. | |
though independent candidates currently hold | :19:41. | :19:41. | |
a quarter of council seats. According to the latest | :19:42. | :19:44. | |
calculations by Plymouth University Election Centre, | :19:45. | :19:45. | |
the Tories are predicted to increase their tally by 50 seats, | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
despite being in government, But the dramatic story in England | :19:52. | :19:54. | |
looks to be with the other parties, with the Lib-Dems possibly winning | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
100 seats, while Ukip could be seeing a fall, | :20:01. | :20:02. | |
predicted to lose 100 seats. Though the proportional system | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
usually makes big changes less likely in Scotland, | :20:09. | :20:10. | |
the SNP is predicted to increase both the number of seats | :20:11. | :20:13. | |
they hold, and the number In Wales, Labour is defending a high | :20:14. | :20:15. | |
water mark in support. Last year's Welsh Assembly elections | :20:16. | :20:24. | |
suggest the only way is down, with all the parties making modest | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
gains at Labour's expense. Joining me now is the BBC's | :20:28. | :20:29. | |
very own elections guru, Professor John Curtice | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
of the University of Strathclyde. Good to see you again. Let's start | :20:33. | :20:39. | |
with England. How bad are the selection is going to be for Labour? | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
Labourer not defending a great deal because this is for the most part | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
rural England. The only control three of the council they are | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
defending and they are only defending around 500 seats, I nearly | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
a quarter are in one county, Durham. Labour's position in the opinion | :20:59. | :21:01. | |
polls is weakened over the last 12 months and if you compare the | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
position in the opinion polls now with where they were in the spring | :21:06. | :21:17. | |
of 2013 when these seats in England were last fought, we are talking | :21:18. | :21:19. | |
about a 12 point swing from Labour to conservative. The estimate of 50 | :21:20. | :21:21. | |
losses may be somewhat optimistic for Labour. Of the three council | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
areas they control, two of them, Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire, | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
could be lost, leaving labourer with virtually a duck as far as council | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
control is concerned in these elections in England. In England, | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
what would a Liberal Democrat reserve urgently great? That is the | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
big question. We have had this picture since the EU referendum of | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
the Liberal Democrats doing extraordinarily well in some local | :21:46. | :21:48. | |
by-elections, gaining seats that they had not even fought before, and | :21:49. | :21:56. | |
in other areas, doing no more than treading water. We are expecting a | :21:57. | :21:59. | |
Liberal Democrat skin because the lost the lot -- the lost lots of | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
ground when they were in coalition with the Conservatives. It is | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
uncertain. A patchy performance may well be to their advantage. If they | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
do well in some places and gain seats, and elsewhere do not do | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
terribly well and do not waste votes, they may end up doing | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
relatively well in seats, even if the overall gaining votes is likely | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
to be modest. The elections for mayors, they are taking place in | :22:24. | :22:54. | |
the Labour will that be a hefty consolation prize for the Labour | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
Party? It ought to be, on Teesside, Merseyside, Greater Manchester. We | :22:58. | :22:59. | |
are looking at one content very closely, that is the contest for the | :23:00. | :23:02. | |
mayor of the West Midlands. If you look at what happened in the general | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
election in 2015, labourer work nine points ahead of the Conservatives in | :23:06. | :23:07. | |
the West Midlands. If you look at the swing since the general | :23:08. | :23:10. | |
election, if you add that swing to where we were two years ago, the | :23:11. | :23:12. | |
West Midlands now looks like a draw. Labour have to worry about a | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
headline grabbing loss, and the West Midlands contest. If they were to | :23:16. | :23:17. | |
lose, that wooden crate -- that would increase the pressure for | :23:18. | :23:19. | |
their own Jeremy Corbyn to convince people that they can turn his | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
party's fortunes around, and in truth at the moment, they are pretty | :23:24. | :23:29. | |
dire. The West Midlands has Birmingham as its heart. | :23:30. | :23:32. | |
Chock-a-block with marginal seats. It always has been. I always | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
remember election night and marginal seats in the West Midlands. | :23:39. | :23:45. | |
Scotland, the SNP is assaulting Labour's last remaining power base. | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
The biggest prizes Glasgow. Will it take it, the SNP? Whether the SNP | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
will gain control of Glasgow is uncertain. If you look at what is | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
happening in local government by-elections let alone the opinion | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
polls, in 2012, when these seats were last fought, Labour did | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
relatively well, only one percentage point behind the SNP who were rather | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
disappointed with the result compared to other elections. No sign | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
of that happening this time alone -- this time around. Polls put the SNP | :24:18. | :24:25. | |
ahead. By-elections have found the SNP advancing and Labour dropping by | :24:26. | :24:28. | |
double digits. Labour are going to lose everything they currently | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
control in Scotland, the SNP will become the dominant party, the | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
question is how well they do. In Scotland there is a Conservative | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
revival going on. The Conservatives did well in recent local government | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
by-elections. At the moment, Labour are expected to come third north of | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
the border in the local elections, repeating the third they suffered in | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
the Holyrood elections last year. In Wales, Labour is expecting to lose | :24:56. | :24:58. | |
control of a number of councils. They are the main party in 12 of 22 | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
local authorities. How bad could it be? We're expecting Labour to lose | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
ground. In the opinion polls when these seats were last fought, | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
labourer in the high 40s. Now they are not much above 30%. Cardiff | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
could well join Glasgow was no longer being a Labour stronghold. | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
Look out for Newport. Some of the South Wales councils that Labour | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
control, Labour is probably too but occasionally, Plaid | :25:27. | :25:42. | |
Cymru surprises in this area. They managed to win the Rhondda seat in | :25:43. | :25:44. | |
the assembly elections. Jeremy Corbyn has said he wants to be | :25:45. | :25:46. | |
judged on proper elections, council elections as opposed to opinion | :25:47. | :25:49. | |
polls, but even if he does as badly as John has been suggesting, does it | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
affect his leadership? I think it does on two counts. It will affect | :25:53. | :25:59. | |
his own confidence. Anyone who is a human being will be affected by | :26:00. | :26:02. | |
this. He might go into his office and be told by John McDonnell and | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
others, stand firm, it is all right, but it will affect his confidence | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
and inevitably it contributes to a sense that this is moving to some | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
kind of denoument, at some point. In other words, while I understand the | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
argument that he has won twice in a leadership contest, well, within 12 | :26:23. | :26:29. | |
months, I wonder whether this can carry on in a fixed term parliament, | :26:30. | :26:36. | |
up until 2020, if it were to do so. On two France, it will have some | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
impact. I am not seeing it will lead to his immediate departure, it will | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
mark, but if these things are as devastating as John suggests, it | :26:47. | :26:52. | |
will have an impact. Tom, I'll be looking at a Lib Dem fightback? That | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
is the $64,000 question. It would seem that we should be. One massive | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
reason we're not having a general election a time soon, apart from the | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
fact that Theresa May does not believe in these things, she | :27:07. | :27:09. | |
believes in pressing on, it is because Tory MPs in the South West | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
who took the Lib Dem seats, they were telling Number 10 they were | :27:15. | :27:16. | |
worried they were going to lose their seats back to the Lib Dems. | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
The Lib Dems never went away and local government. They have got | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
other campaigners and activists. It looks credible that they will be the | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
success story of the whole thing. Ukip leader, Paul Nuttall, he says | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
this will be the most difficult local elections his party will face | :27:35. | :27:41. | |
before 2020. A bit of management of expectations. It is unlikely to be a | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
good time for Ukip. They are right to manage expectations. The results | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
will be horrible for Ukip. I agree with Tom about the Lib Dem | :27:52. | :28:12. | |
threat to the Tories. Talking to some senior figures within the Tory | :28:13. | :28:15. | |
party earlier this week, I was picking up that they are worried | :28:16. | :28:17. | |
about 30-40 general election seeds being vulnerable to the Lib Dems | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
because of the Labour collapse. I would normally agree with Steve | :28:21. | :28:22. | |
about the resilience of politicians, the capability of withstanding | :28:23. | :28:24. | |
repeated blows, but Jeremy Corbyn is not in the normal category. I think | :28:25. | :28:27. | |
he is, in the sense that although he get solace from winning leadership | :28:28. | :28:29. | |
contest, anyone who leads a party into the kind of, it is not going to | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
be that vivid, because they are not defending the key seats. If they | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
were to win Birmingham, say, and get slaughtered by the SNP in Scotland, | :28:40. | :28:45. | |
it will undermine what is already a fairly ambiguous sense of | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
self-confidence. We need to leave it there. Thank you, John Curtice. | :28:50. | :28:51. | |
Well, with those elections on the horizon, is Labour where it | :28:52. | :28:54. | |
Former leader Ed Miliband was on the Andrew | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
Marr Show earlier and he explained the challenge Labour faces | :28:58. | :28:59. | |
It is easier for other parties, if you are the Greens or the | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
Liberal Democrats you're essentially fishing in the 48% pool. | :29:05. | :29:06. | |
If you are Ukip, you are fishing in the 52% pool. | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
Labour is trying to do something much harder, | :29:11. | :29:12. | |
which is to try and speak for the whole country, | :29:13. | :29:14. | |
and by the way, that is another part of | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
Our attack on Theresa May, part of it is she's | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
Ignoring the verdict going into this, saying, | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
let's overturn it, looks like ignoring the 52%. | :29:28. | :29:29. | |
By the way, there is more that unites Remainers | :29:30. | :29:35. | |
and Leavers than might first appear, because they share common | :29:36. | :29:37. | |
concerns about the way the country is run. | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
Joining me now is the Shadow Health Secretary, Jon Ashworth. | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
Welcome to the programme. Alastair Campbell told me on the BBC on | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
Thursday that he is fighting to reverse the referendum result. Ed | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
Miliband says that Remain needs to accept the result, come to terms | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
with it. Who is right? We have to accept the referendum result. I | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
campaigned passionately to remain in the European Union. The city I | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
represent, Leicester, voted narrowly to remain in the European Union. | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
Sadly the country did not. We cannot overturn that and be like kinky | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
nude, trying to demand the tide go back out. We have to accept this | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
democratic process. We all voted to have a referendum when the relevant | :30:27. | :30:34. | |
legislation came to Parliament. How bad will the local elections before | :30:35. | :30:42. | |
Labour? Let us see where we get to on election night when I am sure I | :30:43. | :30:48. | |
will be invited on to one of these types of programmes... The election | :30:49. | :30:57. | |
date, the following day. But it does look like you will lose seats across | :30:58. | :31:00. | |
the board in England, Scotland and Wales. What did you make of what | :31:01. | :31:06. | |
Steve Richards said about the impact on Jeremy Corbyn's leadership? We | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
have to win seats, we cannot fall back on the scales suggested. No, | :31:11. | :31:18. | |
your package was right, it tends to be Tory areas, but generally, we | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
have to be winning in Nottinghamshire, Lancashire, those | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
types of places because they contain a lot of the marginal constituencies | :31:29. | :31:32. | |
that decide general elections. The important places in the elections | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
are towns like Beeston, towns you have not heard of, but they are | :31:39. | :31:45. | |
marginal towns in marginal swing constituencies. We have to do well | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
in them. We will see where we are on election night but my pretty is to | :31:50. | :31:52. | |
campaign hard in these areas over the next few weeks. Even people who | :31:53. | :32:00. | |
voted Labour in 2015, they prefer Theresa May to Mr Corbyn as Prime | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
Minister, a recent poll said. Isn't that extraordinary? I have not seen | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
that. I will look it up. It was you Government. -- YouGov. It is | :32:12. | :32:18. | |
important we win the trust of people. You are not winning the | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
trust of people who voted for you in 2015. We have to hold onto people | :32:24. | :32:30. | |
who voted for us in 2015 and we have to persuade people who voted for | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
other parties to come to us. One of the criticisms I have of the debate | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
that goes on in the wider Labour Party, do not misunderstand me, I am | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
not making a criticism about an individual, but the debate you see | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
online suggests that if you want to get people who voted Conservative to | :32:48. | :32:53. | |
switch to Labour it is somehow a betrayal of our principles, it was | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
not. Justin Trudeau said Conservative voters are our | :32:58. | :33:03. | |
neighbours, our relatives. We have to persuade people to switch from | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
voting Conservative to voting Labour as well as increasing our vote among | :33:09. | :33:15. | |
nonvoters and Greens. It seems like you have a mountain to climb and the | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
mountain is Everest. Another poll, I am not sure if you have seen this, | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
in London, the Bastian of Labour, the Bastian of Remain, Mr Corbyn is | :33:27. | :33:36. | |
less popular than even Ukip's Paul Nuttall. That is beyond | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
extraordinary! I do not know about that. The most recent set of | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
elections in London was the mayoral election where the Labour candidate | :33:46. | :33:51. | |
city: won handsomely. He took the seat of a conservative. We took that | :33:52. | :33:58. | |
of a conservative. It was a year ago. We did well then. You had an | :33:59. | :34:10. | |
anti-Jeremy Corbyn candidate. I think he nominated Jeremy Corbyn, | :34:11. | :34:13. | |
from memory. We have not got elections in London but our | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
elections are in the county areas and the various mayoral elections... | :34:18. | :34:28. | |
What about the West Midlands? In any normal year, mid-term, as the | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
opposition, Labour should win the West Midlands. John Curtis says it | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
is nip and tuck. It has always been a swing region but we want to do | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
well, of course. We want to turn out a strong Labour vote in Dudley, | :34:43. | :34:49. | |
Northampton, those sorts of places. They are key constituencies in the | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
general election. Does Labour look like a government in waiting to you? | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
What I would say is contrast where we are to what the conservative | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
garment is doing. I asked you about Labour, you do not get to tell me | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
about the Conservatives. Does it look like a government in waiting to | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
you? Today we are exposing the Conservatives... Reminding people | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
the Conservatives are breaking the pledge on waiting times of 18 weeks | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
so lots of elderly people waiting longer in pain for hip replacements | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
and cataract replacements. Yesterday the Housing spokesperson John Healey | :35:30. | :35:32. | |
was exposing the shortcomings in the Help to Buy scheme. The education | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
spokesperson has been campaigning hard against the cuts to schools. | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
Tom Watson has been campaigning hard against some of the changes the | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
Government want to introduce in culture. The Shadow Cabinet are | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
working hard to hold the Government's feet to the fire. Does | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
it look like a government in waiting? Yes. It took you three | :35:56. | :36:01. | |
times! There is a social care crisis, schools funding issue, a | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
huge issue for lots of areas, the NHS has just got through the winter | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
and is abandoning many of its targets. You are 18 points behind in | :36:11. | :36:18. | |
the polls. We have to work harder. What can you do? The opinion polls | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
are challenging but we are a great Social Democratic Party of | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
government. On Twitter today, lots of Labour activists celebrating that | :36:30. | :36:32. | |
the national minimum wage has been in place for something like 16 years | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
because we were in government. Look of the sweeping progressive changes | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
this country has benefited from, the NHS, sure start centres, an assault | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
on child poverty, the Labour Party got itself in contention for | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
government. I entirely accept the polls do not make thrilling reading | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
for Labour politicians on Sunday morning, but it means people like me | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
have to work harder because we are part of something bigger than an | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
individual, we are in the business of changing things for the British | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
people and if we do not do that, if we do not focus on that, we are | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
letting people down. Is Labour preparing for an early election | :37:11. | :37:18. | |
question Billy burqa? Reports in the press of a war chest as macro for an | :37:19. | :37:23. | |
early election? The general election coordinator called for a general | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
election when Theresa May became Prime Minister. We are investing in | :37:28. | :37:30. | |
staff and the organisational capability we need. By the way, the | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
Labour Party staff do brilliant work. A bit of nonsense on Twitter | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
having a go at them. They do tremendous work. Whenever the | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
election comes, they will be ready. Jon Ashworth, thank you. | :37:45. | :37:53. | |
Hello, welcome to Sunday Politics East. | :37:54. | :38:05. | |
Politicians take to the streets in the fight for your vote | :38:06. | :38:13. | |
Here with me today, Vicky Ford, Conservative member | :38:14. | :38:22. | |
And Gavin Shuker, Labour MP from Luton South. | :38:23. | :38:24. | |
This week, the Government formally told the EU we are leaving. | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
The EU told the Government the divorce must come | :38:29. | :38:31. | |
Whether you see it as an opportunity or a disaster, we now have two years | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
MEPs from this region will be on the front line, | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
and have spent the last few months in unofficial talks. | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
Andrew Sinclair has been to Brussels to see how they rate our chances. | :38:46. | :38:56. | |
At the European Parliament, there is a real sense of anticipation. | :38:57. | :39:03. | |
Everyone here knows that life is about to change. | :39:04. | :39:06. | |
Well, I'm really worried about people's jobs | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
After a lot of threats, we're hearing actually some real | :39:11. | :39:17. | |
I think there's an awful, awful lot of water to go | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
There's a huge amount of devil in the detail. | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
My pint, the imperial pint, is always half full. | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
To meet expectations, and our point, frustration... | :39:32. | :39:34. | |
In the public gallery, a group from the Eastern Region | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
has come along to watch the European Parliament in action. | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
People remain remarkably uninformed about perhaps the actual day-to-day | :39:44. | :39:46. | |
business that goes on here, and everything that gets done | :39:47. | :39:48. | |
in the spirit of corporation within the European Union. | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
It's been a pleasure to actually see these things going on. | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
I really hope they make the best of it and I really hope that we can | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
sort out trade agreements with different countries | :40:01. | :40:01. | |
and still have a fairly good relationship with those in Europe. | :40:02. | :40:04. | |
It's going to take a long time before we are in a position to sort | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
It's not like the House of Commons... | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
The visitors were being hosted by the Eastern Region MEP | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
Alex Mayer, who knows that she will be out | :40:18. | :40:19. | |
A Remain supporter, she accepts that Brexit must happen, | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
Her fear is that the negotiations will be very complicated. | :40:24. | :40:28. | |
Every different company I talk to, every different sector I talk to, | :40:29. | :40:31. | |
tells me about yet another Brexit problem, perhaps one that | :40:32. | :40:34. | |
I hadn't sort of thought about or heard about before. | :40:35. | :40:37. | |
So, you know, it might be about regulatory | :40:38. | :40:39. | |
It might be about science and research, agriculture | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
Every different place you go to tells you their own Brexit problem. | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
It is a view that you hear expressed a lot in the corridors - | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
that the forthcoming negotiations will be complex and tough. | :40:55. | :40:56. | |
David Campbell Bannerman, a key member of the Leave campaign, | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
says he is becoming more and more confident that we'll | :41:03. | :41:04. | |
We're following the guidelines set by the World Trade Organisation | :41:05. | :41:10. | |
And I think we can keep it pretty straightforward. | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
That's taken seven years, and that was supposed | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
Well, it has taken seven years, but, you know, only three | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
Two years were wasted on human rights, two years on investor | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
We start from a very different place. | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
We are a member of the EU, we have no tariffs, no quotas. | :41:35. | :41:37. | |
The Brexit negotiations will be overseen by the European Commission, | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
which is just down the road from here. | :41:43. | :41:44. | |
This place, the European Parliament, will officially have very | :41:45. | :41:47. | |
But European politics is all about behind-the-scenes lobbying, | :41:48. | :41:54. | |
establishing positions, trying to persuade negotiators | :41:55. | :41:56. | |
what's important to a certain country or region. | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
The global brand of this, Cambridge, is so important | :42:03. | :42:04. | |
So, the East of England office in Brussels has organised dozens | :42:05. | :42:10. | |
of meetings and lobbying sessions to brief European officials | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
and other parliamentarians about what's important | :42:14. | :42:15. | |
It's about making sure that we speak very loudly and very clear | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
Those negotiating stages, when they're going on, | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
to have a clear message from all of us, business, | :42:27. | :42:28. | |
politicians, the movement of people and goods, | :42:29. | :42:36. | |
for workers who need to come here, particularly | :42:37. | :42:45. | |
And a trade deal which won't hurt local businesses, | :42:46. | :42:48. | |
particularly food production, science and the | :42:49. | :42:50. | |
We do need to have a specific relationship for the UK, one that | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
I think we're making good progress so far. | :42:55. | :43:04. | |
Now the negotiations are about to get really serious, | :43:05. | :43:06. | |
so we have a short window to deliver it. | :43:07. | :43:09. | |
Now, many of our MPs in this region have argued long | :43:10. | :43:12. | |
None more so than Peter Bone, the MP for Wellingborough. | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
He was a founding member of the grassroots Out movement, | :43:18. | :43:20. | |
I've been working at this all my political life, as some | :43:21. | :43:28. | |
And thanks to the British people, and thanks to our democratic | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
process, we are now coming out of the EU. | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
There's no turning back now, and I'm looking forward | :43:38. | :43:40. | |
to a very exciting time over the next three years. | :43:41. | :43:46. | |
As far as the letter from Theresa May to the European Union | :43:47. | :43:49. | |
is concerned, did it contain all of the things that | :43:50. | :43:51. | |
I mean, to be honest it could have just said, | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
"Dear European Union, we're coming out, goodbye." | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
That would have worked for me as well! | :44:00. | :44:01. | |
But you know how governments like to make it into a 6-page letter | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
when they could have done it in one paragraph. | :44:06. | :44:07. | |
The thing is, we're coming out, we hold all the cards, | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
they have a ?60 billion trade surplus with us. | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
They want to do a deal with us much more than we need | :44:17. | :44:19. | |
And all of this huffing and puffing in the European Union | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
is for the politics of the European elite. | :44:24. | :44:26. | |
When they get down to business, the directors of Mercedes-Benz | :44:27. | :44:28. | |
and BMW will go around to the German Chancellor and say, | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
for goodness sake, you've got to get a free trade deal | :44:33. | :44:35. | |
with the United Kingdom, because it's in our interests | :44:36. | :44:37. | |
How do you think people will see any difference in this region over | :44:38. | :44:43. | |
Well, the thing is, the economy here is doing remarkably well. | :44:44. | :44:50. | |
And, as you will know, unemployment now, in our area, | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
hasn't been so low since actually when Harold Wilson had | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
So basically since 1975, we have been in the European Union, | :45:00. | :45:07. | |
And now we're coming out, it's going down. | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
I think it's very good for local industry. | :45:13. | :45:15. | |
We've got lots of local small businesses - | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
And that's going to be very good news for them, | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
because we're going to be exporting around the world. | :45:23. | :45:24. | |
We're not going to be hampered by EU trade restrictions. | :45:25. | :45:27. | |
We're going to be able to control immigration. | :45:28. | :45:28. | |
We're going to let people come into this country | :45:29. | :45:31. | |
that we want in this country, but exclude those we don't want, | :45:32. | :45:33. | |
which, one of the biggest, you know, bugbears in our area has been | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
Not the people who are here, but the fact that so many are coming | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
in, and we're going to be able to deal with that. | :45:42. | :45:44. | |
You will know that close to 400,000 people have their jobs linked | :45:45. | :45:47. | |
Well, that's right, and we going to have more people, | :45:48. | :45:55. | |
we're going to have more jobs and more business. | :45:56. | :45:57. | |
I would say the EU has held us back, has held back our economy. | :45:58. | :46:04. | |
And coming out of what actually in relative terms is a shrinking | :46:05. | :46:07. | |
What we want to do is to be able to trade freely | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
with the European Union, but also trade across the globe. | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
So if you are making something in this country that you've been | :46:18. | :46:20. | |
exporting to the European Union, why not now export it to India? | :46:21. | :46:23. | |
You can't at the moment, because the EU sort | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
So it's a very exciting time for businesses in this area, | :46:27. | :46:31. | |
especially those that want to export. | :46:32. | :46:34. | |
Over the next year, what do you hope will have been achieved? | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
Do you hope that we can get an agreement say on those people | :46:39. | :46:41. | |
who are living here and working here but are European by birth? | :46:42. | :46:44. | |
First of all, I think we should be able to do the whole of the Brexit | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
I mean, people say two years because it says in the treaty that | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
if you don't complete a deal within two years then you are out. | :46:55. | :46:57. | |
Well, the founding fathers of the European Union thought | :46:58. | :47:00. | |
if anybody wanted to leave a deal would be done much | :47:01. | :47:02. | |
So I think it will be done much quicker. | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
I think the first thing we need to do on the agenda is say that | :47:07. | :47:09. | |
European Union citizens who have lived in this country | :47:10. | :47:11. | |
at the 23rd of June, the referendum date, | :47:12. | :47:14. | |
The Prime Minister is also right to say, of course, | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
the similar has got to be said for our citizens abroad. | :47:19. | :47:21. | |
And I think that should be the first thing we deal with. | :47:22. | :47:24. | |
In fact, I'm not sure why the European Union, some countries | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
in the European Union, aren't agreeing to it now. | :47:29. | :47:30. | |
Vicky Ford, I mean, from your experience | :47:31. | :47:36. | |
in the European Parliament - he says they want to deal with us | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
I think that's a bit over-simplistic, OK? | :47:40. | :47:46. | |
From my experience in the European Parliament, though, | :47:47. | :47:48. | |
the majority of centrist European Parliament, | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
from centre-right, centre-left, want to find that long-term | :47:54. | :47:55. | |
They want to keep this amicable, and they want to have a close | :47:56. | :48:01. | |
relationship between the UK and EU going forward. | :48:02. | :48:04. | |
So actually there's quite a lot of meeting of minds | :48:05. | :48:06. | |
between what the Prime Minister sees as we are leaving the EU, | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
but we want to continue to work in many areas and have a new trade | :48:12. | :48:14. | |
deal, have a new security cooperation, between what she is | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
asking for and what many in Europe also want to achieve. | :48:19. | :48:23. | |
So there is a lot, but as I said, there's a lot of detail | :48:24. | :48:26. | |
Gavin Shuker, you were shaking your head a few times during that. | :48:27. | :48:31. | |
Unemployment was one thing that made you, that smile. | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
Actually, the fact that we are leaving the EU, | :48:36. | :48:38. | |
although we haven't actually left it yet is not the reason why | :48:39. | :48:41. | |
I just don't think the evidence backs it up... | :48:42. | :48:44. | |
It is the strong Conservative Government that is bringing | :48:45. | :48:46. | |
Well, it is the flexible labour markets and the fact that we have | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
got more and more people in insecure work. | :48:52. | :48:53. | |
But one for another day, because this week has | :48:54. | :48:55. | |
The Tories have put forward their proposals of the kind of deal | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
Europe has said what it will live with. | :49:00. | :49:02. | |
There is one lesson from it - the Tory set of proposals | :49:03. | :49:05. | |
of what they can live with are very close and very restrictive. | :49:06. | :49:08. | |
And they are going to hurt all of the issues you talked | :49:09. | :49:11. | |
about just that, whether it employs, freedom of movement or of goods | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
and services, the things that actually make the economy | :49:17. | :49:18. | |
in the east of England quite strong at the moment. | :49:19. | :49:20. | |
And I'm afraid I think Peter is going to discover that just | :49:21. | :49:23. | |
because you want something to be true doesn't make it so. | :49:24. | :49:26. | |
I think there's a lot of people across Europe, | :49:27. | :49:29. | |
and I'm still very involved in the negotiations on the single | :49:30. | :49:32. | |
market, and we want to be able to sell into that market | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
after we leave, and I have had many colleagues with leading MEPs | :49:36. | :49:37. | |
from across all of the different countries who also want | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
to have that sort of trade agreement going forward. | :49:42. | :49:44. | |
There are issues that we need to agree quite quickly. | :49:45. | :49:47. | |
For example, an citizens's rights, where our colleagues in Europe | :49:48. | :49:51. | |
want to agree an citizens rights and so do we. | :49:52. | :49:54. | |
We should be able to agree the principles | :49:55. | :49:56. | |
And then leave some of the detail for the longer legal discussions. | :49:57. | :50:05. | |
It's important we agree those issues in principle fast, | :50:06. | :50:08. | |
so that we can then move on to talk about the trade agreement. | :50:09. | :50:11. | |
And, as you said, issues like science and research | :50:12. | :50:14. | |
Issues like food and farming, very important for the use of England. | :50:15. | :50:23. | |
There's actually a huge amount of work that needs to happen back | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
in Westminster on this Great Repeal Bill as well, | :50:29. | :50:30. | |
which again the white paper on that was published this week. | :50:31. | :50:32. | |
And there's a lot of our legislation which is governed by EU law, | :50:33. | :50:35. | |
but then we need to make sure it works afterwards. | :50:36. | :50:38. | |
So for example, if you are a bank at the moment, you have | :50:39. | :50:41. | |
You report to them, and we need to make sure that | :50:42. | :50:48. | |
So we need to just get it all right in British law. | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
So do you agree basically on what Vicky Ford is saying here? | :50:53. | :50:56. | |
In terms of the complexity of the negotiations, absolutely. | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
I was in the States this week looking at the future | :51:02. | :51:04. | |
Bit of an obscure subject, but actually it's about keeping | :51:05. | :51:11. | |
We do that on a European level at the moment. | :51:12. | :51:23. | |
We are going to come out in 2019, and we don't know what replaces it. | :51:24. | :51:28. | |
If we don't have that, it's not a case of copy and pasting | :51:29. | :51:31. | |
from the existing law, you need a process, you need | :51:32. | :51:33. | |
an institution that does it, you need scientists. | :51:34. | :51:35. | |
All of that funnily enough is going to be more expensive | :51:36. | :51:38. | |
after we leave the EU rather than less, and it's | :51:39. | :51:40. | |
going to make compliance costs for businesses | :51:41. | :51:42. | |
So it kind of begs the question, what are we doing this for? | :51:43. | :51:46. | |
And I'm apologetic about the fact that it is complex, but it is. | :51:47. | :51:49. | |
There are about 90 of these different areas that we're | :51:50. | :51:52. | |
What are we doing it for, that is no longer the question. | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
We are leaving the European Union, but the terms by which we leave | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
and what we want at the end is the Prime Minister's gift. | :52:03. | :52:05. | |
She has chosen a Hard Brexit that is going to hurt us. | :52:06. | :52:08. | |
Well, no, actually, if you look at the detail | :52:09. | :52:10. | |
which was in the Prime Minister's letter on things like product | :52:11. | :52:13. | |
standards, that you've just mentioned, she has | :52:14. | :52:14. | |
British businesses selling into Europe will need to continue | :52:15. | :52:18. | |
So giving businesses those types of certainty. | :52:19. | :52:20. | |
And indeed I was with East of England businesses just | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
But that's why we've spent seven months preparing | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
OK, let's move away from Brexit and talk about the local elections, | :52:29. | :52:31. | |
Elections will be held in Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Cambridge, | :52:32. | :52:37. | |
All are run by the Conservatives, with the exception of Cambridge, | :52:38. | :52:45. | |
Norfolk and Suffolk, which ring though overall control. | :52:46. | :52:55. | |
There are no elections in Bedfordshire, which has three | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
Among other things, county councils from social care, | :53:00. | :53:02. | |
education, transport, planning, the fire | :53:03. | :53:03. | |
Labour believe they have a strong record on delivering services. | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
We've got a good story to tell about Labour running | :53:09. | :53:13. | |
When we speak to people, really what they want to talk | :53:14. | :53:20. | |
The fact that their roads are full of potholes, | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
the park and ride has been shut, the Fire Service has been cut, | :53:26. | :53:28. | |
It's the local things that people are interested in, and that's | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
The Conservatives want to keep tight control on the purse strings. | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
We're standing on a platform that we are very prudent. | :53:37. | :53:38. | |
We recognise that it is people's hard earned money that we collect | :53:39. | :53:41. | |
in council tax, and we're very careful about how we spent that. | :53:42. | :53:44. | |
But at the same time, we're really clear that prioritise | :53:45. | :53:47. | |
children's and adult's social services to protect | :53:48. | :53:54. | |
And what we actually are saying to people is that front line | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
services are best protected by having a sustainable council | :53:59. | :54:00. | |
that is very careful about how it goes about its business. | :54:01. | :54:03. | |
And that's the message that we're putting out on the doorstep. | :54:04. | :54:05. | |
Ukip still believe they offer an alternative. | :54:06. | :54:07. | |
It doesn't seem to matter whether it is red, yellow | :54:08. | :54:10. | |
or blue, it is just carries on as it's always did. | :54:11. | :54:12. | |
And Ukip are offering something different. | :54:13. | :54:14. | |
We don't operate a whip system, we're much more localised | :54:15. | :54:16. | |
And actually we've proved to be quite good at it. | :54:17. | :54:23. | |
Where we have Ukip councils, we are actually effective. | :54:24. | :54:27. | |
The Lib Dems hope Brexit has strengthened their support. | :54:28. | :54:30. | |
A lot of people have got involved right across the East | :54:31. | :54:33. | |
of England on the back of the referendum result. | :54:34. | :54:37. | |
People see that the Conservative Brexit government is putting | :54:38. | :54:41. | |
millions of jobs at risk, and they want to stand | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
And the Green Party fighting for investment in public transport | :54:46. | :54:55. | |
We have got question marks about considerable | :54:56. | :54:57. | |
amounts of road-building, which we consider unnecessary, | :54:58. | :54:59. | |
especially as it means that we are starving other forms | :55:00. | :55:02. | |
of transport from the funds that they really need, | :55:03. | :55:05. | |
whether that be bus services, whether that be our railways. | :55:06. | :55:07. | |
And it's interesting that whenever we talk about road-building, | :55:08. | :55:09. | |
Why don't we invest in our buses as well? | :55:10. | :55:16. | |
And that's something which I think is very popular | :55:17. | :55:18. | |
Gavin Shuker, that's a Labour policy, isn't it? | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
There's plenty of Labour policies being implemented at a local level. | :55:24. | :55:26. | |
Of course, at Westminster level it's more tricky moment. | :55:27. | :55:29. | |
But the Greens are parking their tanks with your lawn, | :55:30. | :55:37. | |
or are you parking your tanks on their lawn? | :55:38. | :55:39. | |
I think politics at the moment is pretty the brow. | :55:40. | :55:41. | |
We know for example that when these seats were fought four years | :55:42. | :55:50. | |
ago, Labour were in a stronger position in the polls | :55:51. | :55:53. | |
Now, that inevitably involves some Labour voters looking to vote | :55:54. | :55:56. | |
My hope is that however people vote this time around that we don't see | :55:57. | :56:01. | |
a large number of votes going to the Conservatives | :56:02. | :56:03. | |
and strengthening their hold at the moment, not least | :56:04. | :56:05. | |
of all because I think without meaningful opposition | :56:06. | :56:07. | |
in Westminster and actually in local government, governments | :56:08. | :56:09. | |
And you see that in a lot of Tory controlled councils | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
Tory councillors will be looking over their shoulders wondering | :56:15. | :56:17. | |
what the Lib Dem vote is getting stronger, isn't it? | :56:18. | :56:20. | |
No, I think the Tories will be looking to take back the overall | :56:21. | :56:23. | |
control that we lost in Cambridgeshire and Norfolk | :56:24. | :56:25. | |
And actually having no overall control, these rainbow coalitions, | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
have made it incredibly much more difficult to have real decisions. | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
County councils have really important jobs, important services, | :56:36. | :56:38. | |
Children's Services, adult social services. | :56:39. | :56:40. | |
Decisions about the long-term planning... | :56:41. | :56:49. | |
You're not worried about anybody, is that what you're saying? | :56:50. | :56:52. | |
What I have seen is where the county council is really well run, | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
Essex, Hertfordshire, really good strategic decisions, | :56:56. | :56:56. | |
and then it used to be the same in Cambridgeshire, | :56:57. | :56:58. | |
and then we've had a lot more challenging since we've | :56:59. | :57:01. | |
Norfolk has now, they have given up the opposition have given up. | :57:02. | :57:05. | |
Those Tory councils are putting like mad. | :57:06. | :57:08. | |
But since they've come back to having a Conservative | :57:09. | :57:11. | |
leadership in Norfolk, they've been able to get | :57:12. | :57:13. | |
Decisions have just sat on the edges. | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
They have to just manage their margins and their bhajans | :57:20. | :57:28. | |
-- budgets because there is a limited amount | :57:29. | :57:30. | |
Whatever the scale of reduction pushed down from national | :57:31. | :57:37. | |
government, look at Conservative councils across the region. | :57:38. | :57:38. | |
They are cutting further and deeper, and they are cutting away | :57:39. | :57:41. | |
at the services that actually a lot of people rely on. | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
Now, I don't think that just living in a world where you have to say | :57:47. | :57:49. | |
there is going to be no reductions whatsoever is sustainable, | :57:50. | :57:51. | |
certainly after seven years of a Tory government | :57:52. | :57:53. | |
In fairness, the problem was there when they came | :57:54. | :57:57. | |
But the key point is, what kind of services do | :57:58. | :58:03. | |
And on that basis, you know, at a local level, Labour | :58:04. | :58:07. | |
politicians are standing up and they are defending get. | :58:08. | :58:10. | |
People want well-run councils and managed budgets, | :58:11. | :58:12. | |
because otherwise we don't get the services. | :58:13. | :58:14. | |
And that is what you get with the Conservative run councils. | :58:15. | :58:18. | |
Now to our round-up of the political week in 60 seconds | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
A new report claims that one in six local roads | :58:23. | :58:35. | |
are in urgent need of repair, and some may be forced | :58:36. | :58:38. | |
to close altogether if no action is taken soon. | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
In the next five years, they need to invest heavily | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
in repairing and replacing them, or the ultimate sanction they have | :58:48. | :58:49. | |
Security worries at Stansted airport after protesters campaigning | :58:50. | :58:57. | |
against deportations padlocked themselves to the undercarriage | :58:58. | :58:59. | |
It should not be possible for people to get the wrong side of an airport, | :59:00. | :59:06. | |
and definitely not be possible for people to get on the runway. | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
The nomination for Britain's best surprise is Northamptonshire, | :59:11. | :59:15. | |
according to its Tourist Board, which is encouraging people | :59:16. | :59:17. | |
?1 billion of tourist money that is coming | :59:18. | :59:22. | |
into the county at the moment, to increase that by 50% in five | :59:23. | :59:26. | |
And, any takers for a Brexit teapot?! | :59:27. | :59:31. | |
A company in Great Yarmouth has made a limited edition. | :59:32. | :59:35. | |
You two went by buying one of those, I'm sure! | :59:36. | :59:46. | |
The protesters on the runway, that raises some very serious | :59:47. | :59:50. | |
I'm very fond of Stansted Airport, I use it a lot when I'm | :59:51. | :59:54. | |
going backwards and forwards and it's always very busy and I've | :59:55. | :59:57. | |
always been very impressed by the security there. | :59:58. | :59:59. | |
I do think we need to ask how this happened, because protesters should | :00:00. | :00:02. | |
not be able to get onto a runway of an airport, serious | :00:03. | :00:05. | |
And you've got Luton airport of course. | :00:06. | :00:13. | |
I mean security is very tight there as it is in lots | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
The key thing of course with Stansted is, if a plane | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
is diverted to the UK, if there is a potential hijack | :00:20. | :00:22. | |
situation or whatever, it is diverted into Stansted, | :00:23. | :00:24. | |
which is considered to be a very highly secure airport. | :00:25. | :00:26. | |
So I'm sure the authorities will be looking at this, | :00:27. | :00:29. | |
trying to work out how to make sure it doesn't happen again. | :00:30. | :00:32. | |
But there are miles of fencing round any airport. | :00:33. | :00:34. | |
I am meeting the new boss of Stansted in a couple of weeks' time, | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
so I will certainly be asking him that question, you know, | :00:39. | :00:40. | |
how did this happen and how do we make sure that it | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
You are right, Gavin, this is the airport that we use | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
OK, both of you, thank you very much for being with us this week. | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
We are back after the Easter break in three weeks' time. | :00:54. | :01:06. | |
So, what will be the effect of new tax and benefit changes | :01:07. | :01:08. | |
Will the Government's grand trade tour reap benefits? | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
And are the Lib Dems really going to replace Labour, | :01:13. | :01:14. | |
To answer that last question, I'm joined by from Salford | :01:15. | :01:26. | |
by the Lib Dem MP, Alistair Carmichael. | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
Michael Fallon sirs the Lib Dems will replace Labour. How long will | :01:32. | :01:40. | |
it take? We will have to wait and see. Anyone who thinks you can | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
predict the future is engaged in a dodgy game. I have been campaigning | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
with the Liberal Democrats in Manchester... You must not | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
mention... You know the by-election rules. It is only an illustration. | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
Across false ways of the country, the Liberal Democrats are back in | :02:04. | :02:13. | |
business -- across whole swathes of the country. Part of the reason why | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
we are getting a good response is because the Labour Party under | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
Jeremy Corbyn has taken such a self-destructive path. Even if you | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
do pretty well in the local elections, it you have to make up | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
lost ground from the time you did very well in previous times, you | :02:32. | :02:38. | |
used to have 4700 councillors. It will take you a long while to get | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
back to that. You will get no argument from me that we have a | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
mountain to climb. What I'm telling you is, and if this is not just in | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
this round of elections, it is in the other by-elections in places | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
like Richmond, and in by-elections write the length and breadth of the | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
country since last June, the Liberal Democrats are taking seats from the | :03:03. | :03:05. | |
Labour Party under Conservative Party, and not just in Brexit phobic | :03:06. | :03:13. | |
areas. Not just in Remain areas. But in places like Sunderland as well | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
which voted very heavily for Brexit. In fact, that vote was in large part | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
as well a protest against the way in which the Labour Party really has | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
taken these areas for granted over the years. That is why the ground is | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
fertile for us. In the local elections which is what we are | :03:33. | :03:39. | |
discussing today, why would anybody vote for the Liberal Democrats if | :03:40. | :03:42. | |
they believed in Brexit? Mr Farren has said he wants to reverse works. | :03:43. | :03:51. | |
If you are Brexit supporter and you are considering how to cast your | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
vote, first of all, I think you will be looking at the quality of | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
representation you can get for your local area and you are right, we | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
have a lot of ground to recoup from previous elections, we lost 124 | :04:03. | :04:11. | |
seats, communities have now had a few years to reflect on the quality | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
of service they have been able to get and they have missed the very | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
effective liberal Democrat councillors they have had. This is | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
not just about whether you are a believer or remainer, ultimately, | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
that is an issue we are going to have to settle and we will settle it | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
not in the way the Government is having by dictating the terms of the | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
debate, but by bringing the whole country together. I think that is | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
something you can only do if, as we have suggested, you give the people | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
the opportunity to have a say on the deal when Theresa May eventually | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
produces it. The only way you could really replace Labour in the | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
foreseeable future would be if a big chunk of the centre and right of the | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
Labour Party came over and join due in some kind of new social | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
democratic alliance. -- joined you. There is no sign that will happen? I | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
do not see whether common purpose is anymore holding the Labour Party | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
together. That is for people in the Labour Party to make their own | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
decisions. Use what happened to the Labour Party in Scotland. -- you | :05:23. | :05:30. | |
saw. Politics moved on and left them behind and they were decimated as a | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
consequence of that. So was your party. It is possible the same thing | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
could happen to the Labour Party and the rest of the UK. Politics is | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
moving on and they are coming up with 1970s solutions to problems in | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
2017. Alistair Carmichael, thanks for joining us. Let us have a look | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
at some of the tax and benefit changes coming up this week. The tax | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
changes first of all. The personal allowance is going to rise to | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
?11,500, the level at which you start to pay tax. The higher rate | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
threshold, where you start to play at 40%, that will rise from | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
currently ?43,400, rising up to 40 5000. -- pay. Benefit changes, | :06:19. | :06:26. | |
freeze on working age benefits, removal of the family element of tax | :06:27. | :06:33. | |
credits and universal credit, that is a technical change but quite an | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
impact. The child element of tax credit is going to be limited to two | :06:38. | :06:44. | |
children on any new claims. The Resolution Foundation has crunched | :06:45. | :06:51. | |
the numbers and they discovered that when you take the tax and benefit | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
changes together, 80% go to better off households and the poorest third | :06:58. | :07:05. | |
or worse. What help -- what happened to help the just about managing? The | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
Resolution Foundation exists to find the worst possible statistics... It | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
is not clear the figures are wrong? They are fairly recent figures and I | :07:15. | :07:21. | |
have not seen analysis by other organisations. The Adam Smith | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
Institute will probably have some question marks over it. Nobody | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
should be surprised a Tory government is trying to make the | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
state smaller... And the poor poorer. The system is propped up by | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
better off people and so it will be those people who will be slightly | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
less heavily taxed as you make the state smaller. Theresa May will have | :07:43. | :07:50. | |
to stop just talking about the just about managing. And some of her | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
other language and the role of the government and the state when she | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
sounded quite positive... She sounded like a big government | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
conservative not small government. In every set piece occasion, she | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
says, it is time to look at the good the government can do. That is not | :08:09. | :08:16. | |
what you heard from Mrs Thatcher. Tony Blair and Gordon Brown would | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
not have dared to say it either even if they believed it. It raises a | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
much bigger question which is, as well as whether this is a set of | :08:25. | :08:31. | |
progressive measures, the Resolution Foundation constantly argued when | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
George Osborne announced his budget measures as progressive when they | :08:36. | :08:38. | |
were regressive when they checked out the figures, but also how this | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
government was going to meet the demand for public services when it | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
has ruled out virtually any tax rises that you would normally do | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
now, including National Insurance. There are a whole range of nightmare | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
issues on Philip Hammond's in-tray in relation to tax. The Resolution | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
Foundation figures do not include the rise in the minimum wage which | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
has just gone under way. They do not include the tax free childcare from | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
the end of April, the extra 15 hours of free childcare from September. | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
Even when you include these, it does not look like it would offset the | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
losses of the poorest households. Doesn't that have to be a problem | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
for Theresa May? It really is a problem especially when her | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
narrative and indeed entire purpose in government is for that just about | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
managing. What Mrs May still has which is exactly a problem they have | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
at the budget and the Autumn Statement is that they are still | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
saddled with George Osborne's massive ring fences on tax cuts and | :09:42. | :09:48. | |
spending. They have to go through with the tax cut for the middle | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
classes by pushing up the higher rate threshold which is absolutely | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
going to do nothing for the just about managing. When they try to | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
mitigate that, for example, in the Autumn Statement, Philip Hammond was | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
told to come up with more money to ease the cuts in tax credits, came | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
up with 350 million, an absolute... It is billions and billions | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
involved. Marginal adjustment. A huge problem with the actual tax and | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
benefit changes going on with what Mrs May as saying. The only way to | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
fix it is coming up with more money to alleviate that. Where will you | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
find it? Philip Hammond tried in the Budget with the National Insurance | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
rises but it lasted six and a half days. I was told that it was one of | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
the reasons why the Chancellor looked kindly on the idea of an | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
early election because he wanted to get rid of what he regards as an | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
albatross around his neck, the Tory manifesto 2015, no increase in | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
income tax, no increase in VAT, no increase in National Insurance, fuel | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
duty was not cut when fuel prices were falling so it is hardly going | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
to rise now when they are rising again. This is why, I suggest, they | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
end up in these incredibly complicated what we used to call | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
stealth taxes as ways of trying to raise money and invariably a blow up | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
in your face. Stealth taxes never end up being stealthy. It is part of | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
the narrative that budget begins to fall apart within hours. You have to | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
have sympathy, as Tom says, with Philip Hammond. No wonder he would | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
like to be liberated. The early election will not happen. The best | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
argument I have heard for an early election. The tax and spend about at | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
the last election was a disaster partly because the Conservatives | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
feared they would lose. Maybe they could be a bit more candid about the | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
need to put up some taxes to pay for public services and it is very | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
interesting what you picked up on Philip Hammond because he is | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
trapped. So constrained about... You can also reopen the Ring fencing and | :11:58. | :12:04. | |
spending and the obvious place to go is the triple lock, OAP spending. | :12:05. | :12:10. | |
Another case for an election. He cannot undo the promise to that | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
demographic. We will not get to 2020 without something breaking. The | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
Prime Minister, the trade secretary and Mr Hammond, they are off to | :12:20. | :12:26. | |
India, the Far East, talking up trade with these countries, I do not | :12:27. | :12:33. | |
know if any of you are going? Sadly not. Will it produce dividends? The | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
prime Minster is going somewhere too. No, it will not, the honest | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
answer. No one will do a trade deal with us because we cannot do one | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
because we are still in the EU and they need to know what our terms | :12:49. | :12:51. | |
will be with the EU first before they can work out how they want to | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
trade with us. This is vital preparatory work. Ministers always | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
go somewhere in recess, it is what they do. We will not see anything in | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
a hurry, we will not see anything for two years. They have to do it. | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
Whatever side of the joint you are on, Brexit, remain, we need to get | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
out there. -- the argument. We should have been doing this the day | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
after the referendum result. It is now several months down the line and | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
they need to step it up, not the opposite. You can make some informal | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
talks, I guess. You can say, Britain is open for business. There is a | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
symbolism to it. What a lot of energy sucked up into this. | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
Parliament is not sitting so they might as well start talking. We have | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
run out of energy and time. That is it for today. We are off for the | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
Easter recess, back in two weeks' time. If it is Sunday, it is the | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
Sunday Politics. Unless it is that used to recess! -- Easter recess. | :13:54. | :14:22. | |
Marine Le Pen has her eyes on the French presidency. | :14:23. | :14:25. | |
As she tries to distance herself from her party's controversial past, | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
we follow the money and ask, "Who's funding her campaign?" | :14:30. | :14:53. | |
I think I've died and gone to heaven. Saluti. Chin-chin. | :14:54. | :15:02. | |
So, can anybody speak Italian? No. Non parlo italiano. | :15:03. | :15:06. |