Browse content similar to 14/05/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
Theresa May unveils plans to build many more affordable homes | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
in England, but with no price tag, timetable or building targets - | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
Labour takes aim at the City with what it calls a Robin Hood Tax | :00:47. | :00:53. | |
to fund public services, but will traders just | :00:54. | :00:55. | |
Don't look at the polls - Jeremy Corbyn, at least, | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
insists he can win this election - so which way will | :01:00. | :01:01. | |
We'll hear from a focus group in Leeds. | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
Here in the East, the thousands of nurses that are needed to fill | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
And why some parties are standing aside this election. | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
and here, what the parties are saying about tackling the air | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
pollution problem in London. And with me, our own scientifically | :01:18. | :01:25. | |
selected focus group of political pundits - | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
they're not so much undecided as clueless - | :01:29. | :01:30. | |
Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott They'll be tweeting | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
throughout the programme. So, we've got two new | :01:34. | :01:40. | |
policies this morning. Labour say they will introduce | :01:41. | :01:42. | |
a financial transaction tax if they win the general election | :01:43. | :01:44. | |
and what they're calling "the biggest crackdown on tax | :01:45. | :01:46. | |
avoidance in the country's history". The Conservatives say they'll work | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
with local authorities in England to build council houses | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
with the right to buy. Theresa May says the policy | :01:52. | :01:53. | |
"will help thousands of people get on the first rung | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
of the housing ladder". Steve, what do you make of them? I | :01:57. | :02:08. | |
have been conditioned after doing tax and spend debates in | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
pre-election periods for many decades to treat policy is not as | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
literal but as arguments. In other words if you look back to 2015 the | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
Tory plan to wipe out the deficit was never going to happen and yet it | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
framed and large event. In that sense the Robin Hood tax is a | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
sensible move for Labour to make at this point because it is part of a | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
narrative of reconfiguring taxation to be fair. Treating it as an | :02:36. | :02:38. | |
argument rather than something that would happen in day one of Labour | :02:39. | :02:45. | |
government is sensible. In terms of building houses Theresa May said | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
right from the beginning when she was in Number Ten that there is a | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
housing deficit in this country rather than the economic deficit | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
George Osborne was focusing on, and this is an example of trying to get | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
house-building going. It seems entirely sensible, not sure how it | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
works with right to buy but again as framing of a 90 minute it makes | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
sense. I disagree with Steve on one front which is how sensible Theresa | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
May's policy is on the housing announcement. I think more broadly | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
these two announcements have something in common which is that | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
over the next 24 hours both will probably unravel in different ways. | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
Ye of little faith! The Mayor of London has already said he doesn't | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
agree with this, and when people see the actual impact of what looks like | :03:35. | :03:41. | |
a populist tax will very potentially affect people's pensions, it might | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
become a lot less popular. On the Tory housing plans, I think it is | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
difficult to imagine how they are going to implement this huge, what | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
looks like a huge land and property grab. Through compulsory purchase | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
orders, which are not a simple instrument. They say they will | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
change the law but really the idea of paying people below the market | :04:05. | :04:07. | |
value for their assets is not something I can see sitting easily | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
with Tory backbenchers or the Tories in the House of Lords. Tom. Both | :04:13. | :04:19. | |
would appear superficially to be appealing to traditional left and | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
traditional right bases. What is more Tory than right to buy, then | :04:24. | :04:30. | |
councils sell on these houses, and Labour slapping a massive tax on the | :04:31. | :04:38. | |
city. The Tories' plan, I would say look a bit deeper and all of the | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
Tory narrative from the last six years which hasn't worked well is | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
talking about the private sector increasing supply in the market. Now | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
Mrs May is talking about the role for the state after all so this is | :04:51. | :04:57. | |
the shift creeping in. On the Labour transaction tax, one of the most | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
interesting things I heard in days was from Paul Mason, former BBC | :05:03. | :05:09. | |
correspondent, now a cog in Easter extreme. On Newsnight he said don't | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
worry about whether the Labour manifesto will add up, I'm promising | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
it will, the bigger Tory attack line should be what on earth will be the | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
macroeconomic effect of taking so much tax out of the system. Very | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
well, we shall see. At least we have some policies to talk about. | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
Now, on Tuesday Labour will launch its manifesto. | :05:33. | :05:33. | |
But we've already got a pretty good idea of what's in it - | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
that's because most of its contents were leaked to the media | :05:38. | :05:39. | |
Labour has a variety of spending pledges including an extra | :05:40. | :05:48. | |
?6 billion a year for the NHS, an additional ?8 billion for social | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
care over the lifetime of the next parliament, | :05:52. | :05:53. | |
as well as a ?250 billion in infrastructure over | :05:54. | :05:55. | |
The party will support the renewal of the Trident submarine system, | :05:56. | :06:02. | |
although any Prime Minister should be extremely cautious | :06:03. | :06:04. | |
about its use, and the party will hold a strategic defence | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
and security review immediately after the election. | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
In terms of immigration, Labour will seek "reasonable | :06:11. | :06:12. | |
management of migration", but it will not make "false | :06:13. | :06:14. | |
Elsewhere, university tuition fees will be abolished, | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
and the public sector pay cap, which limits pay rises | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
for public sector workers to 1%, will be scrapped. | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
The party also aims to renationalise the railways, the Royal Mail | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
and the National Grid, as well as creating at least one | :06:30. | :06:36. | |
A senior Labour backbencher described it to the Sunday Politics | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
as a manifesto for a leadership who don't "give a toss | :06:43. | :06:44. | |
about the wider public", and several other Labour candidates | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
told us they thought it had been deliberately | :06:48. | :06:48. | |
leaked by the leadership, with one suggesting | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
the leak was intended to "bounce the National Executive" | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
And we're joined now from Salford by the Shadow Business Secretary, | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
Welcome to the programme. The draft manifesto proposed to renationalise | :06:59. | :07:07. | |
the number of industry. You will wait for the franchises to run out | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
rather than buy them out at the moment so can you confirm the | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
railways will not be wholly nationalised until 2030, after three | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
Labour governments, and Jeremy Corbyn will be 80? I'm not going to | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
comment on leaks, you will just have to be patient and wait to see what | :07:27. | :07:33. | |
is in our manifesto. But you have already announced you will | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
nationalise the railways, so tell me about it. We have discussed taking | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
the franchises into public ownership as they expire, however the detail | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
will be set out in the manifesto so I'm not prepared to go into detail | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
until that policy is formally laid out on Tuesday. That doesn't sound | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
very hopeful but let's carry on. You will also nationalise the National | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
Grid, it has a market capitalisation of ?40 billion, why do you want to | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
nationalise that? Again, I'm not going to speculate on leaks, you | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
will just have to be patient. But you said you will nationalise the | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
National Grid so tell's Y. The leaks have suggested but you will just | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
have to wait and see what the final manifesto states on that one. So is | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
it a waste of time me asking you how you will pay for something that | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
costs 40 billion? Be patient, just couple of days to go, but what I | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
would say is there is growing pressure from the public to reform | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
the utilities sector. The Competition and Markets Authority | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
stated in 2015 that bill payers were paying over till debt -- ?2 billion | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
in excess of what they should be paying so there is a clear need for | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
reform. The bills we get are from the energy companies, you are not | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
going to nationalise them, you are going to nationalise the | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
distribution company and I wondered what is the case for nationalising | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
the distribution company? As I said, our full plans will be set out on | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
Tuesday. In relation to the big six energy companies, we know in recent | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
years they have been overcharging customers... There's no point in | :09:17. | :09:23. | |
answering questions I am not asking. I am asking what is the case for | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
nationalising the National Grid? There is a case for reforming the | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
energy sector as a whole and that looks at the activities of the big | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
six companies and it will look at other aspects too. You will have to | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
be patient and wait until Tuesday. What about the Royal Mail? Again, | :09:43. | :09:49. | |
you will have to wait until Tuesday. Why can't you just be honest with | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
the British voter? We know you are going to do this and you have a duty | :09:54. | :10:00. | |
to explain. I'm not even arguing whether it is right or wrong. The | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
Royal Mail was sold off and we know it was sold under value and British | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
taxpayers have a reason to feel aggrieved about that. There is a | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
long-term strategy that would ensure the Royal Mail was classified as a | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
key piece of infrastructure but the details of that will be set out in | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
our manifesto because we want to ensure businesses and households | :10:25. | :10:26. | |
ensure the best quality of service when it comes to their postal | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
providers. You plan to borrow an extra 25 billion per year, John | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
McDonnell has already announced this, on public investment, on top | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
of the around 50 billion already being planned for investment. You | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
will borrow it all so that means, if you can confirm, that many years | :10:47. | :10:54. | |
after the crash by 2021, Labour government would still be borrowing | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
75 billion a year. Is that correct? We have set out ?250 billion of | :11:01. | :11:07. | |
capital investment, and ?250 billion for a national investment bank. Our | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
financial and fiscal rules dictate we will leave the Government in a | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
state of less debt than we found it at the start of the parliament so we | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
won't increase the national debt at the end of our Parliamentary term. | :11:19. | :11:25. | |
How can you do that if by 2021 you will still be borrowing around 75 | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
billion a year, which is more than we borrow at the moment? The 500 | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
billion figure is set out over a period of ten years, it's a figure | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
that has been suggested by Peter Helm from Oxford University as a | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
figure that is necessary to bring us in line with other industrial | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
competitors. Similar figures have been suggested by groups such as the | :11:48. | :11:55. | |
CBI. By the way I have not included all 500 billion, just the 250 | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
billion on public spending, not the extra money. You talk about the | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
fiscal rules. The draft manifesto said you will leave debt as a | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
proportion of trend GDP law at the end of each parliament, you have | :12:10. | :12:16. | |
just said a version of that. What is trend GDP? In clear terms we will | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
ensure the debt we acquire will be reduced by the end of the | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
parliament. We won't leave the Government finances in a worse state | :12:25. | :12:31. | |
than we found them. OK, but what is trend GDP? Our rule is we will | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
ensure public sector net debt is less than we found it when we came | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
to power in Government on June the 8th. But that is not what your draft | :12:40. | :12:47. | |
manifesto says. I'm not going to comment on leaks, you are just going | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
to have to wait until Tuesday to look at the fine detail and perhaps | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
we will have another chat then. You have published your plans for | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
corporation tax and you will increase it by a third and your | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
predictions assumed that will get an extra 20 billion a year by the end | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
of the parliament. But that assumes the companies don't change their | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
behaviour, that they move money around, they leave the country or | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
they generate smaller profits. Is that realistic? You are right to | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
make that point and you will see when we set out our policies and | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
costings in the manifesto that we haven't spent all of the tax take. | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
We have allowed for different differentials and potential changes | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
in market activity because that would be approved and direction to | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
take. But corporation tax is allowed to be cut in France and the United | :13:41. | :13:48. | |
States, it's only 12.5% in Dublin. Many companies based in Britain are | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
already wondering whether they should relocate because of Brexit, | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
if you increase this tax by a third couldn't that clinch it for a number | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
of them? No, we will still be one of the lowest corporation tax rate in | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
the G7. Let's look at what's important for business. Cutting | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
corporation tax in itself doesn't improve productivity, or business | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
investment and there's no suggestion cutting corporation tax in recent | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
years has achieved that. Businesses need an investment in tools in | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
things they need to thrive and prosper, they also need to reduce | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
the burden at the lower end of the tax scale, before we get to the | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
Prophet stage. One key example is business rates. We have made the | :14:35. | :14:41. | |
proposal to government to in -- exclude machinery so businesses can | :14:42. | :14:44. | |
invest and grow operations in the future but the Government refused. | :14:45. | :14:51. | |
Corporation tax has been cut since 2010. When it was 28% it brought in | :14:52. | :15:01. | |
?43 billion a year. Now it is down to 20%, it brought in ?55 billion a | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
year. By cutting it in the last year, it brought in 21% more, so | :15:08. | :15:14. | |
what is the problem? It might have brought in more money, but has it | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
increased business investment in the long term. It is not just about | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
cutting corporation tax, but it is on the ability of businesses to | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
thrive and prosper. Business investment in the UK is below are | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
industrial competitors. Wages are stagnating which doesn't indicate | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
businesses are not doing well. Let me get it right, you are arguing if | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
we increase business tax by a third, that will increase investment? I am | :15:46. | :15:52. | |
not saying that. You just did. Know I didn't, I said reducing business | :15:53. | :16:00. | |
tax isn't enough, you have to invest in the things businesses need to | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
thrive and prosper. You have also got to lessen the burden on | :16:04. | :16:15. | |
business. You have announced a financial transaction tax. Your own | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
labour Mayor of London said he has vowed to fight it. He said I do not | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
want a unilateral tax on business in our city, so why are you proceeding | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
with it? This isn't a new initiative, there is a growing | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
global pressure to make sure we have fairness in the financial sector. | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
Ordinary British people are paying for our banking crisis they didn't | :16:39. | :16:44. | |
cause. Another important point, stamp duty reserve tax was brought | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
in in the 1600 and there have been little reforms. The sector has | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
changed and we have do provide changes to the system for that | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
change. High-frequency trading where we have a state of affairs where a | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
lot of shares are traded on computers within milliseconds. We | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
need a tax system that keeps up with that. What happens if they move the | :17:08. | :17:14. | |
computers to another country? Emily Thornaby said this morning, other | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
countries had already introduced a financial transaction tax, what | :17:20. | :17:21. | |
other countries have done that? There are ten countries looking at | :17:22. | :17:30. | |
introducing a transaction tax. Which ones have done it so far? They will | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
be later announcing a final package, going through the finer detail at | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
the moment. But the European Commission tried to get this done in | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
2011 and it still hasn't happened in any of these countries. But you are | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
going to go ahead unilaterally and risk these businesses, which | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
generate a lot of money, moving to other jurisdictions. There is not a | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
significant risk of that happening. The stamp duty reserve tax is levied | :18:01. | :18:11. | |
at either where the person or company is domiciled or where the | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
instrument is issued rather than worth the transaction takes place. | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
This tax in itself is not enough to make people leave this country in | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
terms of financial services because there is more to keep these | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
businesses here in terms of the investment we are making, the | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
economy that Labour will build, in terms of productivity improvement we | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
will see. Thank you very much, Rebecca Long-Bailey. | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
And listening to that was the Home Office Minister, Brandon Lewis. | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
Over the years, you have got corporation tax by 20%, it is lower | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
than international standards, so why are so many global companies who | :18:54. | :19:00. | |
make money out of Great Britain, still not paying 20%? It is one of | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
the problems with the point Labour were making and Rebecca could not | :19:06. | :19:07. | |
answer, these companies can move around the world. One of the | :19:08. | :19:14. | |
important things is having a low tax economy but these businesses, it | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
encourages them to come at a rate they are prepared to pay. People may | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
say they are right, if they were paying 19, 20% incorporation tax. | :19:24. | :19:29. | |
But they are not. Google runs a multi-million pound corporation and | :19:30. | :19:38. | |
did not pay anywhere near 20%. There are companies that are trading | :19:39. | :19:41. | |
internationally and that is why we have to get this work done with our | :19:42. | :19:50. | |
partners around the world. Has there been an improvement? It is more than | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
they were paying before. Whether it is Google or any other company, | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
alongside them being here, apart from the tax they pay, it is the | :19:59. | :20:04. | |
people they employ. The deal was, if you cut the business tax, the | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
corporation tax on profits, we would get more companies coming here and | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
more companies paying their tax. It seems it doesn't matter how low, a | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
number of companies just pay a derisory amount and you haven't been | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
able to change that. As you outlined, the income taken from the | :20:24. | :20:26. | |
changing corporation tax has gone up. That is from established British | :20:27. | :20:33. | |
companies, not from these international companies. It is | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
because more companies are coming here and paying tax. That is a good | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
thing. There is always more to do and that is why we want to crack | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
down. In the last few weeks in the Finnish Parliament, Labour refused | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
to put to another ?8.7 billion of tax take we could have got by | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
cracking down further. You claim to have made great progress on cracking | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
down on people and companies to pay the tax they should. But the tax gap | :21:02. | :21:07. | |
is the difference between what HMRC takes in and what it should take in. | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
It has barely moved in five years, so where is the progress? He have | :21:13. | :21:19. | |
brought in 150 billion more where we have cracked down on those tax | :21:20. | :21:22. | |
schemes. The gap is still the same as it was five years ago. It's gone | :21:23. | :21:33. | |
from 6.8, 26.5. It has gone down. The Prime Minister and the | :21:34. | :21:35. | |
Chancellor said they want to continue work on to get more money | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
on these companies while still having a competitive rate to | :21:40. | :21:46. | |
encourage these companies. While big business and the wealthy continue to | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
prosper, the Office for Budget Responsibility tell us those on | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
average earnings in this country will be earning less in real terms | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
by 2021 than they did in 2008. How can that be fair? I don't see it | :22:00. | :22:05. | |
that way. I haven't seen the figures you have got. What I can say to you, | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
Andrew, we have made sure the minimum wage has gone up, the actual | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
income tax people pay has gone down. So in their pocket, real terms, | :22:16. | :22:24. | |
people have more money. You are the self-styled party of work. We keep | :22:25. | :22:26. | |
emphasising work. Under your government you can work for 13 years | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
and still not earn any more at the end of it, and you did at the start. | :22:32. | :22:37. | |
Where is the reward for effort in that? I have not seen those figures. | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
There are 2.8 million more people, more jobs in economy than there was. | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
1000 jobs every day and people are working and developing through their | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
careers. This is what I thought was odd in what Rebecca was saying, | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
investing in people is what the apprenticeship levy is about, | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
companies are investing their works force to take more opportunities | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
that there. We are talking about fairness, politicians talk about | :23:08. | :23:10. | |
hard-working people and we know the average earnings are no higher than | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
they were in 2008. We know the pay and bonuses of senior executives | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
have continued to grow and the Institute for Fiscal Studies has | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
shown 3 million of the poorest households will lose an average of | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
?2500 a year in the next Parliament, benefits frozen, further sanctions | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
kick in. 3 million of the poorest losing 2500. Under the Tories, one | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
law for the rich and another for the poor. It is quite wrong. First of | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
all, we have got to be fair to the taxpayer who is funding the welfare | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
and benefit system. Which is why the welfare was right. Get more people | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
in work and then it is important to get more people upscaling. As that | :23:56. | :24:03. | |
allowance rises, people have more of the money they earn in their pocket | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
to be able to use in the economy. People will be worse off. 2500, | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
among the poorest already. They will have more money in their pocket as | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
we increase the allowance before people pay tax. We have seen | :24:20. | :24:26. | |
millions of people coming out of tax altogether. The reason I ask these | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
questions, you and the Prime Minister go on and on about the just | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
about managing classes. I am talking about the just about managing and | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
below that. It is all talk, you haven't done anything for them. We | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
have made sure they have an increasing minimum wage, it has gone | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
up more under us than any other previous government. Their wages | :24:48. | :24:54. | |
will be still lower in real terms. Let me come on to this plan for | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
housing. We have announced a new plan to increase affordable housing, | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
social housing, some council housing and social housing built by the | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
associations. How much money is behind this? It is part of the 1.4 | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
billion announced in the Autumn Statement. How many homes will you | :25:13. | :25:20. | |
get for 1.4 billion? That depends on the negotiations with local | :25:21. | :25:22. | |
authorities. It is local authorities, who know the area best. | :25:23. | :25:30. | |
I will not put a number on that. 1.4 billion, if you price the house at | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
100,000, which is very low, particularly for the South, back at | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
you 14,000 new homes. That is it. What we have seen before, how the | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
local government can leveraged to build thousands more homes. That is | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
what we want to see across the country. It is not just about the | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
money, for a lot of local authorities it is about the | :25:54. | :25:56. | |
expertise and knowledge on how to do this. That is why support from the | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
housing communities minister will help. What is the timescale, how | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
many more affordable homes will be built? I will not put a number on | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
it. You announced it today, so you cannot tell me how many more or what | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
the target is? It is a matter of working with the local authorities | :26:19. | :26:21. | |
who know what their local needs are, what land they have got available. | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
What we saw through the local elections with the Metro mayors, | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
they want to deliver in their areas, whether it is the West of England, | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
the north-east, Liverpool, Manchester and we want to work with | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
them. You have said variations of this for the past seven years and I | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
want some credibility. When you cannot tell us how much money, what | :26:43. | :26:48. | |
the target and timescale is, and this government, under which | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
affordable house building has fallen to a 24 year low. 1.2 million | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
families are on waiting lists for social housing to rent. That is your | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
record. Why should we believe a word you say? This is different to what | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
we have been doing over the last two years. We want to develop and have a | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
strong and stable economy that can sustain that 1.4 billion homes. This | :27:13. | :27:19. | |
is important. In 2010, we inherited the lowest level of house building, | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
75,000 new homes. That is about 189,000 over the last four years. | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
That is a big step forward after the crash, getting people back into the | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
industry. More first-time buyers onto the market. Final question, in | :27:35. | :27:45. | |
2010, 2011, your first year in government, there were 60,000 | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
affordable homes built. May not be enough, but last day it was 30 2000. | :27:51. | :27:58. | |
So why should we trust anything you say about this? On housing, we have | :27:59. | :28:05. | |
delivered. We have delivered more social housing. Double what Labour | :28:06. | :28:11. | |
did in 13 years, in just five years. This is what this policy is about, | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
working with local authorities to deliver more homes to people in | :28:16. | :28:16. | |
their local areas. Thank you. Now, they have a deficit | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
of between 15 and 20% in the polls, but Jeremy Corbyn and those | :28:21. | :28:23. | |
around him insist Labour can win. If the polls are right they've got | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
three and half weeks to change voters' minds and persuade those | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
fabled undecided voters We enlisted the polling organisation | :28:30. | :28:31. | |
YouGov to help us find out how the performance of party leaders | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
will affect behaviour Leeds, a city of three quarters | :28:37. | :28:38. | |
of a million people, eight Parliamentary seats and home | :28:39. | :28:47. | |
to our very own focus group. Our panel was recruited | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
from a variety of backgrounds and the majority say they haven't | :28:53. | :28:55. | |
decided who to vote for yet. Watching behind the glass, | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
two experts on different sides Giles Cunningham, who headed up | :29:00. | :29:01. | |
political press at Downing Street under David Cameron | :29:02. | :29:08. | |
and Aaron Bastani, Corbin supporter, under David Cameron | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
and Aaron Bastani, Corbyn supporter, I think Theresa May sees herself | :29:15. | :29:16. | |
as a pound shop Thatcher. Milliband's policies but when it | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
came about who you want, | :29:22. | :29:41. | |
if you wake up on maybe a 2015, We found in a couple of focus | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
groups, people saying we'd be quite relieved, | :29:46. | :29:48. | |
even though some of those same people have been saying we quite | :29:49. | :29:51. | |
like the Labour policies. I think the fact that Corbyn's | :29:52. | :29:53. | |
going so hard on his values, this is a really progressive | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
manifesto, they live But I think that's a new challenge, | :29:58. | :29:59. | |
that wasn't there in 2015. Is there anyone here that | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
you don't recognise? After a little warm up, | :30:05. | :30:06. | |
the first exercise, recognising I think it's nice to have a strong | :30:07. | :30:08. | |
woman in politics, I do. But I've got to say, | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
when she comes on the news, I kind of do think, | :30:15. | :30:17. | |
here we go again. Tell me about Tim Farron, what | :30:18. | :30:19. | |
are your impressions of Tim Farron? It isn't going to do anything, | :30:20. | :30:22. | |
it isn't going to change anything. You'll be surprised to hear it's | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
actually the Greens. Strong and stable leadership | :30:27. | :30:35. | |
in the national interest. Yes, Team May, it's | :30:36. | :30:48. | |
the British equivalent of make What do we think about this one | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
for the many and not the few? It's not quite as bad | :30:53. | :31:02. | |
as strong and stable, but it will probably get | :31:03. | :31:04. | |
on our nerves after a while. We must seize that chance today | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
and every day until June the 8th. But that's not quite my | :31:08. | :31:18. | |
question, my question is, if you are Prime Minister, | :31:19. | :31:25. | |
we will leave, come hell or high water, whatever is on the table | :31:26. | :31:28. | |
at the end of the negotiations? If we win the election, | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
we'll get a good deal with Europe. Assertive and in control | :31:32. | :31:34. | |
and he felt comfortable But the second one, I thought | :31:35. | :31:36. | |
he was very hesitant. I thought he was kind of, | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
hovering around, skirting around and that's the second | :31:42. | :31:50. | |
time I've seen a similar interview with the question | :31:51. | :31:52. | |
being asked regarding Brexit. I don't think I'd have | :31:53. | :31:54. | |
any confidence with him You think you are going up | :31:55. | :31:56. | |
against some quite strong people, how are you going to stand | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
up for us? When you are in negotiations, | :32:01. | :32:02. | |
you need to be tough. And actually is right | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
to be tough sometimes, particularly when you are doing | :32:08. | :32:09. | |
something for the country. There's a reason for talking | :32:10. | :32:11. | |
about strong and stable leadership. It's about the future | :32:12. | :32:14. | |
of the country, it's It's just that people kind of listen | :32:15. | :32:16. | |
to that kind of thing and think Both on The One Show | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
and in the news. She attracts the public better | :32:21. | :32:26. | |
than what Corbyn does. She didn't answer the question | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
in a more articular way than Corbyn Imagine that Theresa | :32:33. | :32:35. | |
May is an animal. So, in your minds, | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
what animal is coming to mind I've done a Pekinese because I think | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
she's all bark and no bite. Alpaca because she's | :32:45. | :32:58. | |
superior looking and woolly I don't think his policies | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
are for the modern, real world. A mouse because they are weak | :33:05. | :33:20. | |
and they can be easily bullied, but also they can catch | :33:21. | :33:23. | |
you by surprise if you're What do you take away | :33:24. | :33:26. | |
from what you saw then, and what message would you send back | :33:27. | :33:34. | |
to the Tories now? I think what came over is people see | :33:35. | :33:36. | |
Theresa May as a strong politician, not everyone likes her, | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
but you don't need to be liked to be elected, | :33:41. | :33:42. | |
because ultimately it's about who do you trust with your future | :33:43. | :33:45. | |
and your security. I think what I also take out | :33:46. | :33:47. | |
of that focus group, was it was a group of floating | :33:48. | :33:49. | |
voters, there was no huge appetite for the Lib Dems and there was no | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
huge appetite for Ukip. So my messaged back to CCHQ | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
would be stick to the plan. I thought the response | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
to the manifesto was excellent. It's clear that people aren't | :33:59. | :34:01. | |
particularly keen on Theresa May, There are some associations with her | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
about strength and stability, which is exactly what the Tory party | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
want of course, but they are not positive and nobody thinks | :34:10. | :34:12. | |
that she has a vision So, what I'd say the Jeremy Corbyn, | :34:13. | :34:14. | |
what I'd say to the Labour Party is, they need to really emphasise | :34:15. | :34:21. | |
the manifesto in Jeremy Corbyn himself has to perform | :34:22. | :34:22. | |
out of his skin and I think he has to reemphasise those | :34:23. | :34:29. | |
characteristics which may be have come to the fore may be | :34:30. | :34:31. | |
over the last 12 months, resilience, strength and the fact | :34:32. | :34:34. | |
that he's come this far, why not take that final step and go | :34:35. | :34:37. | |
into ten Downing Street? We're joined now by the American | :34:38. | :34:39. | |
political consultant For the sake of this discussion, | :34:40. | :34:47. | |
assume the polls at the moment are broadly right, is there any hope for | :34:48. | :34:54. | |
Mr Corbyn in the undecided voters? Know, and this is a very serious | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
collection with serious consequences to who wins. Nobody cares whether | :35:01. | :35:03. | |
you can draw and what animal they represent, they want to know where | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
they stand, and I felt that was frivolous. I come to Britain to | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
watch elections because I learned from here. Your elections are more | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
substantial, more serious, more policy and less about personality | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
and that peace was only about personality. That's partly because | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
Mrs May has decided to make this a presidential election. You can see | :35:27. | :35:35. | |
on the posters it is all Team May. I agree with that, and in her language | :35:36. | :35:43. | |
she says not everyone benefits from a Conservative government, I don't | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
see how using anything Republicans have used in the past. In fact her | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
campaign is more of a centrist Democrats but it is a smart strategy | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
because it pushes Corbyn further to the left. Of course you said Hillary | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
Clinton have won. On election night the polling was so bad in America, | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
the exit polls that were done, the BBC told America she had won. No, I | :36:07. | :36:12. | |
was anchoring the programme that night, I ignored your tweet. The BBC | :36:13. | :36:20. | |
had the same numbers. Yes, but we did not say she had won, I can | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
assure you of that. Because of people like you we thought she had | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
but we didn't broadcast it. That was a smart approach. My point is other | :36:32. | :36:38. | |
than teasing you, maybe there is hope for Jeremy Corbyn. I think you | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
will have one of the lowest turnout in modern history and I think Labour | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
will fall to one of the lowest percentages, not percentage of | :36:49. | :36:51. | |
number of seats they have had, and this will be a matter of | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
soul-searching for both political parties. What you do with a sizeable | :36:56. | :37:01. | |
majority, and she has a responsibility to tell the British | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
people exactly what happens as she moves forward. He and Labour will | :37:05. | :37:10. | |
have to take a look at whether they still represent a significant slice | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
of the British population. Do you see a realignment in British | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
politics taking place? I see a crumbling of the left and yet there | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
is still a significant percentage of the British population that once | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
someone who is centre-left. And they like a lot of Mr Corbyn's policies. | :37:29. | :37:37. | |
I'm listening to Michael foot. I went to school here in the 1980s and | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
I feel like I'm watching the Labour Party of 35 years ago, in a | :37:41. | :37:42. | |
population that wants to focus on the future, not the past. Thank you. | :37:43. | :37:49. | |
It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :37:50. | :37:51. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
Hello. Welcome to Sunday Politics East. | :37:55. | :38:05. | |
Later in the programme why, in some places, | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
you will not be able to vote for parties like these, | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
But first, new figures show just how much pressure the health service | :38:12. | :38:18. | |
The latest survey for cancelled operations shows that, between | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
surgery in our hospitals was delayed on 2,745 occasions. | :38:22. | :38:27. | |
Parts of Essex and Norfolk have already cut IVF for women | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
And these are the latest numbers for NHS staff shortages. | :38:34. | :38:43. | |
3,400 nurses are needed to fill vacancies here. | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
according to the latest figures from the Royal College of Nursing. | :38:50. | :38:56. | |
So, how are the political parties pledging to help? | :38:57. | :38:58. | |
As political footballs go, the NHS is used to getting a good kicking. | :38:59. | :39:07. | |
Last year, it was a carrot to court Brexit votes. | :39:08. | :39:09. | |
Now, it has being fought over by the main parties. | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
I have come here to Great Yarmouth, to meet a lady | :39:13. | :39:20. | |
who is recuperating here after a knee operation - | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
a knee operation which was cancelled four times. | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
Lesley Joseph does like a stroll along the prom, | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
but getting a new knee was no stroll, when her routine operation | :39:31. | :39:33. | |
At the fourth time, she was already actually prepped for surgery. | :39:34. | :39:42. | |
I also heard that they were cancelling people's cancer | :39:43. | :39:44. | |
treatment, which I thought was shocking, because you need to have | :39:45. | :39:46. | |
that treatment, more so than a knee or hip operation. | :39:47. | :39:56. | |
We worked hard to help keep the National Health | :39:57. | :39:58. | |
Service running and it has ended up running down. | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
In many ways, Lesley is one of the lucky ones, | :40:03. | :40:13. | |
because at least, in the end, she did get her surgery. | :40:14. | :40:16. | |
But many routine operations are being cancelled or delayed | :40:17. | :40:18. | |
to save money. It is called health rationing. | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
People like smokers and the overweight are being told they | :40:23. | :40:24. | |
One-fifth of clinical commissioning groups are already doing this. | :40:25. | :40:30. | |
Tony Durkin speaks for the RCN Essex, where the | :40:31. | :40:36. | |
health rationing for the likes of smokers and overweight people is one | :40:37. | :40:38. | |
The NHS has always had to prioritise, but he says | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
Every day, doctors, nurses and others are having to | :40:44. | :40:49. | |
make choices about who needs an operation, who can wait for an | :40:50. | :40:51. | |
operation, and who can come into the hospital and who cannot. | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
If you require urgent care, you require urgent care. | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
If you need routine care, how long can we wait until that | :41:00. | :41:02. | |
operation or treatment needs to occur? | :41:03. | :41:03. | |
It should not be about obesity and it should not be about smoking, | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
but about how could we keep that person reasonably fit and well | :41:08. | :41:10. | |
before they actually do need that operation? | :41:11. | :41:18. | |
So, what are the parties promising, to keep the wheels turning? | :41:19. | :41:20. | |
No manifesto yet from the Conservatives, but they have | :41:21. | :41:22. | |
already been talking about an extra 10,000 mental health staff. | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
Labour's leaked draft manifesto pledged ?6 billion, | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
although how they would pay for it is not manifest. | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
And the Liberal Democrats would put on 1p in the ?1 on tax. | :41:36. | :41:38. | |
I would be prepared to pay more, but I cannot afford it. | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
I think they do a good job. I lost my husband last year | :41:43. | :41:45. | |
and they were marvellous. I would be prepared to pay more. | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
I do not think we should have to do that. | :41:51. | :41:53. | |
I think enough money should be brought forward for the NHS | :41:54. | :41:55. | |
The pressing problem is staffing, which we suffer from in the East | :41:56. | :42:03. | |
particularly the rapid growth of over-85s, who need more care. | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
According to the latest figures from the RCN, | :42:08. | :42:10. | |
there are at least 3,400 nursing vacancies in the East alone. | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
These trainee nurses, soon to graduate at the | :42:15. | :42:18. | |
University of Northampton, will fill some of these gaps. | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
They have been celebrating International Nurses Day, | :42:24. | :42:25. | |
as they think about joining an NHS widely believed to be in crisis. | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
When A is blocked when I walk into work, I can tell what type | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
of day it is going to be by just looking in the corridors. | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
The NHS is understaffed, so I thought I could make | :42:40. | :42:42. | |
a difference if I train as an adult nurse, so that I could make | :42:43. | :42:45. | |
We are running out of money, I think. | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
But I love it, so we have got to keep it going. | :42:51. | :42:53. | |
If we do not have nurses, where are we going to go? | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
The Green Party, amongst others, say the | :42:58. | :42:59. | |
funding gap for the NHS is actually around ?30 billion. | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
But whatever it is, the service is a supermassive black | :43:04. | :43:06. | |
hole, a money pit, and whatever it gets, it will always be | :43:07. | :43:09. | |
It will eat it up and still come back for more. | :43:10. | :43:16. | |
Well, Jeremy Hunt was at the Princess Alexandra Hospital | :43:17. | :43:18. | |
in Harlow this week and we asked him about nurse shortages. | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
Well, if you look at this hospital, there are 35 more | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
We are seeing more doctors and nurses across the NHS, | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
But there are thousands of vacancies. | :43:31. | :43:33. | |
Yes, but the trick is, we need to train more and | :43:34. | :43:36. | |
that is why we are seeing record numbers of nurses | :43:37. | :43:39. | |
being trained, record numbers of doctors being trained. | :43:40. | :43:40. | |
And that, in the end, for the people of Harlow, | :43:41. | :43:47. | |
Here with me are Councillor Peter Reeve for Ukip, | :43:48. | :43:49. | |
Rupert Read for the Green Party and Sir Bob Russell, who is standing | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
All these vacancies be filled? The reality is, that is a funding | :43:53. | :44:15. | |
problem which has to be addressed. We are the only party with joined up | :44:16. | :44:21. | |
the NHS I tackling the likes of air the NHS I tackling the likes of air | :44:22. | :44:30. | |
quality pollution. To tackle stress problems. Only by having that joined | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
up approach on prevention which we do, can you get the long-term | :44:36. | :44:37. | |
funding of the NHS fireball. Colchester Hospital has | :44:38. | :44:43. | |
faced huge challenges. And it is not going | :44:44. | :44:44. | |
to get any better. Nurse numbers going down, | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
population increasing, Colchester had the ?21 million | :44:49. | :45:03. | |
deficit. That is the picture across the region. If it was not for all | :45:04. | :45:13. | |
these medical people from the European Union, without that stuff | :45:14. | :45:22. | |
whose future know is very uncertain, the situation in the NHS would be | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
even worse. We are promising to put that 1p on income tax cuts we need | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
to raise the money. Under the to raise the money. Under the | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
Conservative Party, the NHS is not safe. We will look at the European | :45:37. | :45:50. | |
Union Sabre. No one is arguing that we will not let people and with the | :45:51. | :45:57. | |
rate skill and ability into the country after we leave the | :45:58. | :45:58. | |
Union. But many of these workers are Union. But many of these workers are | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
not from the European Union. They are from oak with the. But how is | :46:05. | :46:12. | |
this going to be paid for? We are the only party being truthful about | :46:13. | :46:21. | |
this. People are being fleeced by another policy announcement by | :46:22. | :46:27. | |
taxation rises. We are fairly clear. We will reduce foreign need in order | :46:28. | :46:34. | |
to pay for the NHS. We are the only party who are honest about putting | :46:35. | :46:41. | |
British people first. But what about the Green party? We will reasoning | :46:42. | :46:49. | |
billion pounds by reducing foreign aid. We want a proper NHS. All of | :46:50. | :47:02. | |
the other parties are not supporting properly the NHS. If we get a | :47:03. | :47:13. | |
landslide conservative government, privatisation will be speeded up. | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
They are floating the idea that people will have to pay for doctors. | :47:18. | :47:23. | |
The only solution is better clear and preventative measures. These two | :47:24. | :47:33. | |
go hand-in-hand. Before the last Conservative government, they were | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
less privatisations. Privatisation started under the Labour Party and. | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
We need to stop the be Dover. At one point, Ukip was talking about | :47:44. | :47:50. | |
an American-style insurance system. We are talking figures on the sides | :47:51. | :47:53. | |
of buses again, are we? No, we have been said that foreign | :47:54. | :48:03. | |
residents should not be allowed to come in here and use the NHS is a | :48:04. | :48:11. | |
tourism venue. Health tourism needs to be stopped. Everybody coming into | :48:12. | :48:18. | |
this country needs to have health insurance so that they pay the way. | :48:19. | :48:25. | |
It is not just about finance. It is about training. The shortage in | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
nursing staff has been there for a long time. When we are talking about | :48:31. | :48:37. | |
nurses may be having to pay their own tuition fees, we are harking | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
back to previous claims. But he were agree it is a huge challenge? | :48:44. | :48:46. | |
Undoubtedly. Now, it seems this snap election | :48:47. | :48:49. | |
is proving to be unusual in more It has emerged that some parties | :48:50. | :48:52. | |
are making calculations Although Ukip may struggle | :48:53. | :48:55. | |
to get any of its own MPs into Parliament this election, | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
it could still have a big impact And the Green Party has stood down | :49:00. | :49:01. | |
in North Norfolk, to support The move follows Ukip's | :49:02. | :49:06. | |
announcement that it would not field a candidate | :49:07. | :49:15. | |
in North Norfolk, in Mr Lamb, who is anti-Brexit, | :49:16. | :49:17. | |
anti-Brexit, has more than 8,000 people | :49:18. | :49:20. | |
voted for Ukip. So, Ukip is calling on its | :49:21. | :49:25. | |
supporters to vote Conservative. The people who voted | :49:26. | :49:28. | |
Ukip in 2015, I do not think they will naturally | :49:29. | :49:30. | |
gravitate to the Conservatives. I think many of them will have | :49:31. | :49:32. | |
supported Norman and the Liberal Democrats in the past | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
and we will be working hard to Ukip has also decided not | :49:36. | :49:38. | |
to stand in Peterborough, where Conservative Stuart Jackson | :49:39. | :49:47. | |
has a majority of just under 2,000 Ukip hopes the 7,000 people | :49:48. | :49:49. | |
who voted for them two years ago will now back Mr Jackson, | :49:50. | :49:54. | |
to ensure a pro-Brexit is elected. I guess it will be helpful, | :49:55. | :50:01. | |
because a lot of these Ukip voters were formerly Conservative | :50:02. | :50:04. | |
voters and I think people now realise that there is really not | :50:05. | :50:06. | |
much point in voting Ukip. Theresa May is going to take | :50:07. | :50:09. | |
us out and we need all Labour, which is standing in both | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
North Norfolk and Peterborough, is dismissive of the move | :50:14. | :50:22. | |
and believes many Ukip voters People have voted Ukip | :50:23. | :50:25. | |
for many reasons, not least, to leave the European Union, | :50:26. | :50:29. | |
which has happened. But they also voted Ukip because | :50:30. | :50:31. | |
they were worried about housing, affordable housing, public | :50:32. | :50:33. | |
services, the NHS the NHS. And those are the things Labour | :50:34. | :50:35. | |
are now promising to deliver on. And you can see a full list | :50:36. | :50:44. | |
of who is standing in North Norfolk Ukip has also announced that it | :50:45. | :50:47. | |
will not be standing against keen Tory Brexiteers, | :50:48. | :50:51. | |
like Philip Hollobone or, more surprisingly, | :50:52. | :50:53. | |
Labour's Kelvin Hopkins. In fact, Ukip is not fielding any | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
candidate across Bedfordshire, It is taking on | :50:58. | :51:00. | |
Labour's Gavin Shuker who both supported Remain | :51:01. | :51:09. | |
in the referendum. I am joined by Professor | :51:10. | :51:12. | |
Paul Whiteley, from Is this a new phenomenon - | :51:13. | :51:14. | |
parties deciding not to To some extent. But I do not think | :51:15. | :51:35. | |
Ukip are being totally honest when they are talking about these | :51:36. | :51:46. | |
strategic reasons. They are not fighting at a number of seats where | :51:47. | :51:53. | |
they are incumbent Eurosceptics. A local level, it looks like a number | :51:54. | :51:58. | |
of the candidates have dropped out. They were badly hit by the local | :51:59. | :52:03. | |
elections and they are concerned about losing deposits in the | :52:04. | :52:09. | |
election. I think the performance has been pure. | :52:10. | :52:12. | |
Is what we are seeing a political move or is it practical - | :52:13. | :52:15. | |
down to a lack of resources, money and candidates? | :52:16. | :52:21. | |
They are trying to pit eat good course on a bad situation after what | :52:22. | :52:28. | |
amounted to a disaster at the local elections. | :52:29. | :52:30. | |
And in your experience, do voters mind being told | :52:31. | :52:32. | |
to "lend their vote" to another party? | :52:33. | :52:38. | |
There are a number of organisations planning to do this. But when we do | :52:39. | :52:47. | |
any surveys of individual members of the public, whether they will vote | :52:48. | :52:54. | |
tactically, only about 5% ever see that the will. There could be | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
important in some constituencies, but overall in the country as a | :52:59. | :53:04. | |
whole, it is not that important. In the case of Ukip, they are | :53:05. | :53:08. | |
perpetually feuding fewer candidates across the country than the Green | :53:09. | :53:10. | |
party. -- feuding. The After last week's local election | :53:11. | :53:19. | |
defeats, is it the end for Ukip? eight do not. In the elections in | :53:20. | :53:34. | |
France, the National front, which is similar, got 11 million votes in | :53:35. | :53:44. | |
France. They represent a constituency which still exists in | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
Britain and in the rest of Europe. People who feel left behind. They | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
feel the government does not work for them. That will continue. If | :53:54. | :54:01. | |
Brexit it proves to be a huge problem and create economic problems | :54:02. | :54:07. | |
in this region, then I think support for the year will come back. But at | :54:08. | :54:11. | |
the moment, the other at the low point. You are putting a positive | :54:12. | :54:22. | |
gloss on this. It is all about resources. The last thing for your | :54:23. | :54:33. | |
speaker said was true, but I was rather sceptical about the rest of | :54:34. | :54:44. | |
it. It is not just about Brexit. For many people who voted for us and we | :54:45. | :54:50. | |
saw this play out in the local elections, the Prime Minister | :54:51. | :55:01. | |
basically said Brexit was in danger because the Liberal Democrats and | :55:02. | :55:04. | |
the Labour Party will gang up. You will not get what you democratically | :55:05. | :55:10. | |
opted for. Many people are believing the Prime Minister. They were very | :55:11. | :55:18. | |
worried about the Liberal Democrats and Labour policy on Brexit. That | :55:19. | :55:25. | |
puts us in a difficult position. We do not want Brexit to be | :55:26. | :55:35. | |
compromised. We guarantee she will start backtracking like you have | :55:36. | :55:37. | |
never seen before and after the selection. How do you feel about the | :55:38. | :55:47. | |
situation in North Norfolk? We have got people via whom 812 fought for | :55:48. | :55:53. | |
the Green party but they are being denied that. There's a tiny handful | :55:54. | :56:04. | |
of seats which may be contentious, with the result is not certain. But | :56:05. | :56:10. | |
we think it is important they are to have cooperation with other parties. | :56:11. | :56:16. | |
In the vast majority of seats, there will be a party from the Green | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
party. But one consequence of the stupid election system is that | :56:21. | :56:25. | |
people can vote for whoever they want. Many of the seats are already | :56:26. | :56:37. | |
predetermined, which is another reason that we need proportional | :56:38. | :56:44. | |
representation. Norman Lamb has been terrific. You are grateful for the | :56:45. | :56:56. | |
support of Green party voters? I am happy for the support of anyone who | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
recognises the work that Norman Lamb has done there. The last thing this | :57:02. | :57:05. | |
country wants is a landslide for the country wants is a landslide for the | :57:06. | :57:07. | |
Conservative government. Now, sealed with a kiss, | :57:08. | :57:14. | |
in our our 60 Second round-up of the week, | :57:15. | :57:16. | |
with Deborah McGurran. On the first day of proper | :57:17. | :57:18. | |
campaigning for the general election, | :57:19. | :57:20. | |
Theresa May came to Norwich, with a promise that Brexit | :57:21. | :57:21. | |
will open up new job for the region. The enthusiasm of | :57:22. | :57:34. | |
the young people shows that I think this is going to be | :57:35. | :57:36. | |
great, in ensuring they have got the skills needed for the jobs | :57:37. | :57:39. | |
of the future, but also in developing | :57:40. | :57:41. | |
the economy of the future. School funding in Cambridgeshire | :57:42. | :57:43. | |
came under the spotlight this week, where there are long-running | :57:44. | :57:46. | |
concerns about per-pupil We can get that, partly by scrapping | :57:47. | :57:47. | |
some of the Tory vanity projects there are, like the huge | :57:48. | :57:54. | |
amounts of money being put towards new free schools, | :57:55. | :57:57. | |
school which are undersubscribed, which do not have | :57:58. | :57:59. | |
enough people coming in. The important thing about this is, | :58:00. | :58:05. | |
what employers tell me they need is skilled workers. | :58:06. | :58:08. | |
And it is our education system which will provide | :58:09. | :58:10. | |
these skills in the future. And Paul Nuttall took | :58:11. | :58:12. | |
the fight to Basildon, in the wake of Ukip's county council | :58:13. | :58:14. | |
defeats last week. It has been a difficult | :58:15. | :58:17. | |
time for the party. What Ukip needs to do is stay | :58:18. | :58:19. | |
on the pitch, because if it does, our positive policies will come | :58:20. | :58:22. | |
back onto the table. And the party leader was happy | :58:23. | :58:25. | |
to demonstrate that his enthusiasm Education. | :58:26. | :58:28. | |
The fair funding formula. Would the Lib Dems re | :58:29. | :58:39. | |
calculate the fair funding We believe in additional funding. | :58:40. | :58:53. | |
?400 million across the east of England. I am supporting the union | :58:54. | :58:58. | |
campaign to stop the privatisation of education. Never mind the NHS | :58:59. | :59:06. | |
being privatised, we are also seeing education being privatised. | :59:07. | :59:13. | |
Remember, Margaret Thatcher did away with more grammar schools than any | :59:14. | :59:15. | |
previous Education Secretary. You want to get rid of academies, | :59:16. | :59:18. | |
but their track record on raising standards in failing | :59:19. | :59:21. | |
schools is a good one. Academies do not act as easy a | :59:22. | :59:35. | |
school which takes and everyone in the local area, so that is a sense | :59:36. | :59:41. | |
of bias. We have other key priorities for education. We want | :59:42. | :59:45. | |
children out into the natural world, rather than being stuck behind a | :59:46. | :59:50. | |
desk. That is proven to be better for the health. And we want to stop | :59:51. | :59:57. | |
all you shouldn't. Not just pollution from the atmosphere but | :59:58. | :00:02. | |
the likes of pollution from advertising. The likes of | :00:03. | :00:04. | |
Scandinavian countries have done that. | :00:05. | :00:06. | |
You want to bring back grammar schools, yet scrap GCSEs | :00:07. | :00:08. | |
for those who decided to go down the technical qualifications route. | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
Doesn't that feel like the old grammar versus secondary moderns? | :00:12. | :00:15. | |
More than technical colleges are nothing like the old comprehensives. | :00:16. | :00:24. | |
But the real issue is how we fund education properly. Smoke and | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
mirrors from the traditional parties. We have seen an 8% cut in | :00:29. | :00:37. | |
education funding. Teachers cannot do their job properly. It is not | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
often you see people in public service standing out scene, our | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
industry is terribly underfunded. We will be back next | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
week with the latest Tories are saying. It is a very | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
emotive subject and we have run out of time. | :00:58. | :01:04. | |
On Thursday nominations closed in the 650 parliamentary | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
seats across the country, so now we know exactly who's | :01:10. | :01:11. | |
We've been analysing the parties' candidates to find out | :01:12. | :01:19. | |
what they might tell us about the make-up of the House | :01:20. | :01:21. | |
Well, we know Theresa May is committed to delivering Brexit and | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
analysis of Conservative candidates has shown that | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
in their top 100 target seats, 37 candidates supported leave | :01:32. | :01:33. | |
during last year's referendum campaign | :01:34. | :01:41. | |
and 20 supported remain; 43 have not made public | :01:42. | :01:43. | |
In the last parliament, the vast majority of Labour MPs | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
were hostile to Jeremy Corbyn so how supportive are Labour | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
Well, of 50 of Labour's top 100 target seats | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
17 candidates have expressed support for Mr Corbyn. | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
20 candidates supported Owen Smith in last year's leadership contest | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
or have expressed anti-Corbyn sentiment, and | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
If they won those, the Labour benches would be | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
marginally more sympathetic to Mr Corbyn than they are now. | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
What do the figures tell us about where the other | :02:19. | :02:20. | |
Well, the Lib Dems have decided not to stand against the Greens | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
in Brighton Pavilion, and are fielding 629 | :02:25. | :02:26. | |
candidates this year - that's two fewer than 2015. | :02:27. | :02:28. | |
The number of Ukip candidates has fallen dramatically. | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
They are standing in 247 fewer constituencies than 2015, | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
throwing their support behind solidly pro-Brexit Tories | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
in some areas such as Lewes and Norfolk North. | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
The Greens are fielding 103 fewer candidates | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
than at the last election, standing down to help | :02:50. | :02:59. | |
other progressive candidates in some places. | :03:00. | :03:06. | |
The most liking statistic is the demise in Ukip candidates, is this | :03:07. | :03:18. | |
their swansong? And I think so. It is remarkable how few Ukip | :03:19. | :03:25. | |
candidates are standing. It is hard to see they will suddenly revive in | :03:26. | :03:28. | |
the next couple of years. I think this is probably the end. Frank | :03:29. | :03:38. | |
Luntz mentioned the fragmentation of the left was a feature of this | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
election, but also there is the consolidation of the right, and if | :03:44. | :03:45. | |
you take the things together that could explain why the polls are | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
where they are. Absolutely, that's precisely what happened at the start | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
of the 1980s, the right was incredibly united and that's when we | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
started talking about majorities of over 100 or so. No matter what the | :04:01. | :04:08. | |
size of Theresa May's majority, it will be the total collapse of Ukip, | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
but not just because we are now leaving the EU and that was their | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
only reason for being, but a whole lot of people voted for Ukip because | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
they felt the Tories were no longer listening. Theresa May has given the | :04:23. | :04:30. | |
impression that she is listening, and that is the biggest possible | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
thing that could happen to the Tory vote. Fragmentation of the left, | :04:34. | :04:41. | |
consolidation of the right? It's one of the lessons that is never learnt, | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
it happened in the 1980s, it doesn't take much for the whole thing to | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
fracture so now you have on the centre-left the SNP, the Labour | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
Party, the Greens, the Liberal Democrats all competing for the same | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
votes and when you have, fleetingly perhaps, large numbers coalescing on | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
the right in one party, there is only going to be one outcome. It | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
happens regularly. It doesn't mean the Tories haven't got their own | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
fragility. Two years ago, David Cameron and George Osborne the | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
dominant figures, neither are in Parliament now which is a symptom of | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
the fragility this election is disguising. Mrs May's position in a | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
way reminds me of Mrs Thatcher in the 1980s, I won't be outflanked on | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
the right, Nicolas Sarkozy in France, I won't be outflanked on the | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
right, so the National Front didn't get through either timed he ran to | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
the second round on like this time, and now Mrs May on Brexit won't be | :05:45. | :05:51. | |
outflanked Iver and as a result has seen off right flank. And also she | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
is looking to the left as well with some of the state interventions. | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
What was interesting about the analysis you showed a few minutes | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
ago was the number of Tory candidates who have apparently not | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
declared which way they voted in the referendum, and you would have | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
thought if this election was all about Brexit, as some would claim, | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
that would become an unsustainable position, and actually more it's | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
about leadership. But the point that I'm now hearing from a number of | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
Labour candidates that they are seeing Tory leaflets that don't even | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
have the Tory candidate's name on them, it is just about Theresa May. | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
I am glad they are keeping to the law because by law they have to put | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
it on. It has been harder for some of the smaller parties too because | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
of the speed of the election being called. We have the manifesto is | :06:47. | :06:53. | |
coming out this week. I think Labour Forshaw on Tuesday, we are not yet | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
sure when the Tories will bring bears out. I suggest one thing, it | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
will at least for people like me bring an end to the question you | :07:02. | :07:08. | |
will have to wait for the manifesto. And Rebecca Long baby will never | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
have that excuse again, isn't it wonderful! She is not the only one. | :07:13. | :07:22. | |
When you are trying to take the north and Midlands from Labour, I | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
would go to one or the other. For me, I can barely hold back my | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
excitement over the Tory manifesto. This will be, I think, the most | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
important day for the British government for the next five years. | :07:37. | :07:44. | |
That wasn't irony there? You actually meant that? I'm not even | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
being cynical at all on Sunday Politics! This is a huge day and | :07:51. | :07:57. | |
it's because I think we will see... I don't think Mrs May will play it | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
safe and I don't think we will get the broadbrush stuff that she might | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
be advised to do. I think she will lay out precisely what you want to | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
do over the next five years and take some big risks. Then finally after a | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
year of this guessing and theorising, we will finally work out | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
what Mrs May is all about. She will say she doesn't want the next | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
parliament to be all about Brexit, though she knows that's the next | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
important thing she has to deliver in some way, so she gets a mandate | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
for that if the polls are right but she | :08:32. | :08:42. | |
does have very different ideas from Mr Cameron about how to run a | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
country. She will I assume one to mandate for what these different | :08:47. | :08:48. | |
ideas are. Otherwise there is no point in holding an early election. | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
You will get a majority, but if you get a mandate to carry on | :08:52. | :08:54. | |
implementing the Cameron and Osborne manifesto it would be utterly | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
pointless. I agree, it is the pivotal event of the election and it | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
will be interesting to see the degree to which she expands on the | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
line which interests me about its time to look at the good that | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
government can do. Because in a way this moves the debate on in UK | :09:11. | :09:17. | |
politics from, from 97 the Blair Brown governments were insecure | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
about arguing about the role of government. Cameron Osborne | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
government similarly so, so here you have a Labour Party talking about | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
the role of government and the state, and Tory leader apparently | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
doing so was well. I think that will be really interesting to see whether | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
it is fleshed out in any significant way. And it is not a natural Tory | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
message. Harold Macmillan talked about the role of the state, Ted | :09:43. | :09:50. | |
Heath Mark two was pretty big on the state, the industrial policy and so | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
on, and even if it is not thought to be that Tory, does she get away with | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
it because she deliver such a big victory if that's what she does | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
deliver? Just inject a little note of scepticism, I wonder how much of | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
this is authentically Theresa May. I was interested to and talk to | :10:10. | :10:18. | |
someone who used to sit in cabinet meetings during which Theresa May | :10:19. | :10:20. | |
never expressed an opinion on anything outside the Home Office | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
briefs. Other ministers were roving all over their colleagues' briefs. | :10:25. | :10:32. | |
So where are the ideas coming from? I think we can point to Nick | :10:33. | :10:40. | |
Timothy. One of her closest advisers in Downing Street. It will be | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
interesting to see how that evolves. On Thursday I think we will all be | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
talking about something called Urdington Toryism. Urdington is the | :10:52. | :11:00. | |
suburb of Birmingham where Nick Timothy comes from, who is very much | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
Theresa May's policy brain and leading inspiration. Urdington | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
Toryism is about connecting the party with traditional working class | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
voters, and their belief to do that is not just taking away government | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
out of their lives but showing them that government can actually help | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
their lives. It can be a force for good to rebuild the trust. A lot of | :11:25. | :11:36. | |
what Mrs May talks about is all... It is talk and then a lot of it | :11:37. | :11:39. | |
suddenly goes by the wayside. What happened to worker directors on the | :11:40. | :11:48. | |
boards. It is designed to appeal to that constituency and then nothing | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
happens. She had an excuse before in the sense that it wasn't in the 2015 | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
manifesto and she had a small majority so therefore she arguably | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
had to water down some of the stuff for example in her Tory conference | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
speech, which had a lot of this active government material in it. If | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
she puts it in the manifesto, it is a sign she plans to do it and will | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
have no excuse if she then gets nervous afterwards because it will | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
be in there. If it wasn't for Brexit, this great overwhelming | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
issue, I think this election will be seen as quite a significant | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
development in terms of an argument around the role of government, | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
much-needed. But Brexit unfortunately overshadows it all. As | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
much as we like our arguments over the role of government we will hear | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
strong and stable, stable and strong ad nauseam, aren't we? Absolutely, | :12:43. | :12:50. | |
and we heard the same old lines from the Labour Party as well so they are | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
all at it. It will be a fascinating week, stop talking it down! Thanks | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
to our panel. The Daily Politics will be | :13:00. | :13:01. | |
back on BBC Two at noon I'll be back here at the same time | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
on BBC One next Sunday. Remember - if it's Sunday, | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. When it came to my TV habits, | :13:09. | :13:42. | |
I'd watch anything... But now I can sign in online | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
and get more of what I love. I'm kept up to date | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
with the shows I love and I get suggestions | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
on subjects I'll like. A new personalised BBC | :13:54. | :13:55. | |
is on its way. To tailor the benefits to you, | :13:56. | :14:08. | |
sign in and introduce yourself. | :14:09. | :14:12. |