Browse content similar to 21/05/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday Morning, and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
Labour attacks Conservative plans for social care and to means-test | :00:34. | :00:35. | |
So can Jeremy Corbyn eat into the Tory lead | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
Theresa May says her party's manifesto is all about fairness. | :00:39. | :00:44. | |
We'll be speaking to a Conservative cabinet minister about the plans. | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
The polls have always shown healthy leads for the Conservatives. | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
But, now we've seen the manifestos, is Labour narrowing the gap? | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
Here in the east, what will small businesses be looking | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
And pensioners worried about manifesto plans | :01:00. | :01:01. | |
And with me - as always - the best and the brightest political | :01:02. | :01:16. | |
panel in the business: Sam Coates, Isabel Oakeshott | :01:17. | :01:18. | |
and Steve Richards - they'll be tweeting throughout | :01:19. | :01:20. | |
the programme, and you can get involved by using | :01:21. | :01:22. | |
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn says pensioners will be up to ?330 a year | :01:23. | :01:30. | |
worse off under plans outlined in the Conservative manifesto. | :01:31. | :01:42. | |
The Work Pensions Secretary Damian Green has said his party will not | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
rethink their plans to fund social care in England. Under the plans in | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
the Conservative manifesto, nobody with assets of less than ?100,000, | :01:53. | :01:59. | |
would have to pay for care. Labour has attacked the proposal, and John | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
McDonnell, Labour's Shadow Chancellor, said this morning that | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
there needs to be more cross-party consensus. | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
That's why we supported Dilnot, but we also supported | :02:11. | :02:12. | |
Because we've got to have something sustainable over generations, | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
so that's why we've said to the Conservative Party, | :02:17. | :02:18. | |
Let's go back to that cross-party approach that actually | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
I just feel we've all been let down by what's come | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
Sam, is Labour beginning to get their argument across? What we had | :02:25. | :02:35. | |
last week was bluntly what felt like not very Lynton Crosby approved | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
Conservative manifesto. What I mean by that is that it looks like there | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
are things that will cause political difficulties for the party over this | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
campaign. I've been talking to MPs and ministers who acknowledge that | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
the social care plan is coming up on the doorstep. It has cut through | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
very quickly, and it is worrying and deterring some voters. Not just | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
pensioners, that people who are looking to inherit in the future. | :03:03. | :03:13. | |
They are all asking how much they could lose that they wouldn't have | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
lost before. A difficult question for the party to answer, given that | :03:17. | :03:18. | |
they don't want to give too much away now. Was this a mistake, or a | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
sign of the Conservatives' confidence? It has the hallmarks of | :03:25. | :03:31. | |
something that has been cobbled together in a very unnaturally short | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
time frame for putting a manifesto together. We have had mixed messages | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
from the Tory MPs who have been out on the airwaves this morning as to | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
whether they will consult on it whether it is just a starting point. | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
That said, there is still three weeks to go, and most of the Tory | :03:49. | :03:55. | |
party this morning feel this is a little light turbulence rather than | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
anything that leaves the destination of victory in doubt. It it flips the | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
normal politics. The Tories are going to make people who have a | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
reasonable amount of assets pay for their social care. What is wrong | :04:07. | :04:13. | |
with that? First, total credit for them for not pretending that all | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
this can be done by magic, which is what normally happens in an | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
election. The party will say, we will review this for the 95th time | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
in the following Parliament, so they have no mandate to do anything and | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
so do not do anything. It is courageous to do it. It is | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
electorally risky, for the reasons that you suggest, that they pass the | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
target their own natural supporter. And there is a sense that this is | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
rushed through, in the frenzy to get it done in time. I think the ending | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
of the pooling of risk and putting the entire burden on in inverted | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
commas the victim, because you cannot insure Fritz, is against the | :04:58. | :05:05. | |
spirit of a lot of the rest of the manifesto, and will give them huge | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
problems if they try to implement it in the next Parliament. Let's have a | :05:09. | :05:17. | |
look at the polls. Nearly five weeks ago, on Tuesday the 18th of April, | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
Theresa May called the election. At that point, this was the median | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
average of the recent polls. The Conservatives had an 18 point lead | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
over Labour on 25%. Ukip and the Liberal Democrats were both on 18%. | :05:34. | :05:41. | |
A draft of Labour's manifesto was leaked to the press. In the | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
intervening weeks, support for the Conservatives and Labour had | :05:47. | :05:49. | |
increased, that it had decreased for the Lib Dems and Ukip. Last Tuesday | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
came the launch of the official Labour manifesto. By that time, | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
Labour support had gone up by another 2%. The Lib Dems and Ukip | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
had slipped back slightly. Later in the week came the manifestos from | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
the Lib Dems and the Conservatives. This morning, for more polls. This | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
is how the parties currently stand on average. Labour are now on 34%, | :06:16. | :06:23. | |
up 4% since the launch of their manifesto. The Conservatives are | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
down two points since last Tuesday. Ukip and the Lib Dems are both | :06:28. | :06:34. | |
unchanged on 8% and 5%. You can find this poll tracker on the BBC | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
website, see how it was calculated, and see the results of national | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
polls over the last two years. So Isabel, is this the Tories' wobbly | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
weekend or the start of the narrowing? This is still an | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
extremely healthy lead for the Tories. At the start of this | :06:53. | :06:59. | |
campaign, most commentators expected to things to happen. First, the Lib | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
Dems would have a significant surge. That hasn't happened. Second, Labour | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
would crash and plummet. Instead they are in the health of the low | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
30s. I wonder if that tells you something about the tribal nature of | :07:16. | :07:21. | |
the Labour vote, and the continuing problems with the Tory brand. I | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
would say that a lot of Tory MPs wouldn't be too unhappy if Labour's | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
result isn't quite as bad as has been anticipated. They don't want | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
Corbyn to go anywhere. If the latest polls were to be the result on June | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
the 8th, Mr Corbyn may not be in a rush to go anywhere. I still think | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
it depends on the number of seats. If there is a landslide win, I | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
think, one way or another, he will not stay. If it is much narrower, he | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
has grounds for arguing he has done better than anticipated. The polls | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
are very interesting. People compare this with 83. In 83, the Tory lead | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
widened consistently throughout the campaign. There was the SDP - | :08:11. | :08:23. | |
Liberal Alliance doing well in the polls. Here, the Lib Dems don't seem | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
to be doing that. So the parallels with 83 don't really stack up. But | :08:27. | :08:28. | |
let's see what happens. Still early days for the a lot of people are | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
saying this is the result of the social care policy. We don't really | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
know that. How do you beat them? In the last week or so, there's been | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
the decision by some to hold their nose and vote Labour, who haven't | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
done so before. Probably the biggest thing in this election is how the | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
Right has reunited behind Theresa May. That figure for Ukip is | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
incredibly small. She has brought those Ukip voters behind her, and | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
that could be the decisive factor in many seats, rather than the Labour | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
share of the boat picking up a bit or down a bit, depending on how | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
turbulent the Tory manifesto makes it. Thank you for that. | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
We've finally got our hands on the manifestos of the two main | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
parties and, for once, voters can hardly complain that | :09:18. | :09:19. | |
So, just how big is the choice on offer to the public? | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
Since the Liberal Democrats and SNP have ruled out | :09:24. | :09:25. | |
coalitions after June 8th, Adam Fleming compares the Labour | :09:26. | :09:27. | |
Welcome to the BBC's election centre. | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
Four minutes from now, when Big Ben strikes 10.00, | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
we can legally reveal the contents of this, our exit poll. | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
18 days to go, and the BBC's election night studio | :09:39. | :09:40. | |
This is where David Dimbleby will sit, although there is no chair yet. | :09:41. | :09:50. | |
The parties' policies are now the finished product. | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
In Bradford, Jeremy Corbyn vowed a bigger state, | :09:54. | :09:56. | |
the end of austerity, no more tuition fees. | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
The Tory campaign, by contrast, is built on one word - fear. | :10:00. | :10:07. | |
Down the road in Halifax, Theresa May kept a promise to get | :10:08. | :10:15. | |
immigration down to the tens of thousands, and talked | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
of leadership and tough choices in uncertain times. | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
Strengthen my hand as I fight for Britain, and stand with me | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
And, with confidence in ourselves and a unity | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
of purpose in our country, let us go forward together. | :10:35. | :10:41. | |
Let's look at the Labour and Conservative | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
On tax, Labour would introduce a 50p rate for top earners. | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
The Conservatives ditched their triple lock, giving them | :10:51. | :11:14. | |
freedom to put up income tax and national insurance, | :11:15. | :11:16. | |
although they want to keep the overall tax burden the same. | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
Labour offered a major overhaul of the country's wiring, | :11:20. | :11:21. | |
with a pledge to renationalise infrastructure, like power, | :11:22. | :11:23. | |
The Conservatives said that would cost a fortune, | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
but provided few details for the cost of their policies. | :11:27. | :11:28. | |
Labour have simply become a shambles, and, as yesterday's | :11:29. | :11:30. | |
manifesto showed, their numbers simply do not add up. | :11:31. | :11:32. | |
What have they got planned for health and social care? | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
The Conservatives offered more cash for the NHS, | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
reaching an extra ?8 billion a year by the end of the parliament. | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
Labour promised an extra ?30 billion over the course of the same period, | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
plus free hospital parking and more pay for staff. | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
The Conservatives would increase the value of assets you could | :11:53. | :11:59. | |
protect from the cost of social care to ?100,000, but your home would be | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
added to the assessment of your wealth, | :12:03. | :12:04. | |
There was a focus on one group of voters in particular | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
Labour would keep the triple lock, which guarantees that pensions go up | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
The Tories would keep the increase in line | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
with inflation or earnings, a double lock. | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
The Conservatives would end of winter fuel payments | :12:24. | :12:25. | |
for the richest, although we don't know exactly who that would be, | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
This is a savage attack on vulnerable pensioners, | :12:30. | :12:37. | |
particularly those who are just about managing. | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
It is disgraceful, and we are calling upon the Conservative Party | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
When it comes to leaving the European Union, Labour say | :12:46. | :12:52. | |
they'd sweep away the government's negotiating strategy, | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
secure a better deal and straightaway guaranteed the rights | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
The Tories say a big majority would remove political uncertainty | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
Jeremy Vine's due here in two and a half weeks. | :13:05. | :13:16. | |
I'm joined now by David Gauke, who is Chief Secretary to the Treasury. | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
Welcome back to the programme. The Tories once promised a cap on social | :13:23. | :13:29. | |
care costs. Why have you abandoned that? We've looked at it, and there | :13:30. | :13:36. | |
are couple of proposals with the Dilnot proposal. Much of the benefit | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
would go to those inheriting larger estates. The second point was it was | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
hoped that a cap would stimulate the larger insurance products that would | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
fill the gap, but there is no sign that those products are emerging. | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
Without a cap, you will not get one. We have come forward with a new | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
proposal which we think is fairer, provide more money for social care, | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
which is very important and is one of the big issues we face as a | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
country. It is right that we face those big issues. Social care is | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
one, getting a good Brexit deal is another. This demonstrates that | :14:16. | :14:23. | |
Theresa May has an ambition to lead a government that addresses those | :14:24. | :14:26. | |
big long-term issues. Looking at social care. If you have assets, | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
including your home, of over ?100,000, you have to pay for all | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
your social care costs. Is that fair? It is right that for the | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
services that are provided to you, that that is paid out of your | :14:41. | :14:46. | |
assets, subject to two really important qualifications. First, you | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
shouldn't have your entire estate wiped out. At the moment, if you are | :14:51. | :14:57. | |
in residential care, it can be wiped out ?223,000. If you are in | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
domiciliary care, it can be out to ?23,000, plus you're domiciliary. | :15:03. | :15:09. | |
Nobody should be forced to sell their house in their lifetime if | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
they or their spouse needs long-term care. Again, we have protected that | :15:14. | :15:15. | |
in the proposals we set out. But the state will basically take a | :15:16. | :15:25. | |
chunk of your house when you die and they sell. In an essence it is a | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
stealth inheritance tax on everything above ?100,000. But we | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
have those two important protections. I am including that. It | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
is a stealth inheritance tax. We have to face up to the fact that | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
there are significant costs that we face as a country in terms of health | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
and social careful. Traditionally, politicians don't address those | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
issues, particularly during election campaigns. I think it is too Theresa | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
May's credit that we are being straightforward with the British | :15:58. | :16:00. | |
people and saying that we face this long-term challenge. Our manifesto | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
was about the big challenges that we face, one of which was | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
intergenerational fairness and one of which was delivering a strong | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
economy and making sure that we can do that. But in the end, someone is | :16:12. | :16:18. | |
going to have to pay for this. It is going to have to be a balance | :16:19. | :16:21. | |
between the general taxpayer and those receiving the services. We | :16:22. | :16:24. | |
think we have struck the right balance with this proposal. But it | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
is entirely on the individual. People watching this programme, if | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
they have a fair amount of assets, not massive, including the home, | :16:33. | :16:39. | |
they will need to pay for everything themselves until their assets are | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
reduced to ?100,000. It is not a balance, you're putting everything | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
on the original two individual. At the moment, for those in residential | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
care, they have to pay everything until 20 3000. -- everything on the | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
individual. But now they will face more. Those in individual care are | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
seeing their protection going up by four times as much, so that is | :17:04. | :17:06. | |
eliminating unfairness. Why should those in residential care be in a | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
worse position than those receiving domiciliary care? But as I say, that | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
money has to come from somewhere and we are sitting at a proper plan for | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
it. While also made the point that we are more likely to be able to | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
have a properly functioning social care market if we have a strong | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
economy, and to have a strong economy we need to deliver a good | :17:28. | :17:30. | |
deal on Brexit and I think Theresa May is capable of doing that. You | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
have said that before. But if you have a heart attack in old age, the | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
NHS will take care of you. If you have dementia, you now have to pay | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
for the care of yourself. Is that they are? It is already the case | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
that if you have long-term care costs come up as I say, if you are | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
in residential care you pay for all of it until the last ?23,000, but if | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
you are in domiciliary care, excluding your housing assets, but | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
all of your other assets get used up until you are down to ?23,000 a | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
year. And I think it is right at this point that a party that aspires | :18:08. | :18:14. | |
to run this country for the long-term, to address the long-term | :18:15. | :18:17. | |
challenges we have is a country, for us to be clear that we need to | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
deliver this. Because if it is not paid for it this way, if it goes and | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
falls on the general taxpayer, the people who feel hard pressed by the | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
amount of income tax and VAT they pay, frankly we have to say to them, | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
those taxes will go up if we do not address it. But they might go up | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
anyway. The average house price in your part of the country is just shy | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
of ?430,000, so if you told your own constituents that they might have to | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
spend ?300,000 of their assets on social care before the state steps | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
in to help...? As I said earlier, nobody will be forced to pay during | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
their lifetime. Nobody will be forced to sell their houses. We are | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
providing that protection because of the third premium. Which makes it a | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
kind of death tax, doesn't it? Which is what you use to rail against. | :19:12. | :19:17. | |
What it is people paying for the services they have paid out of their | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
assets. But with that very important protection that nobody is going to | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
be wiped out in the way that has happened up until now, down to the | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
last three years. But when Labour propose this, George Osborne called | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
it a death tax and you are now proposing a stealth death tax | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
inheritance tax. Labour's proposals were very different. It is the same | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
effect. Labour's were hitting everyone with an inheritance tax. We | :19:45. | :19:51. | |
are saying that there are -- that there is a state contribution but | :19:52. | :19:54. | |
the public receiving the services will have to pay for it out of | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
assets, which have grown substantially. And which they might | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
now lose to social care. But I would say that people in Hertfordshire pay | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
a lot in income tracks, national insurance and VAT, and this is my | :20:09. | :20:13. | |
bet is going to have to come from somewhere. Well, they are now going | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
to pay a lot of tax and pay for social care. Turning to immigration, | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
you promised to get net migration down to 100,020 ten. You failed. You | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
promised again in 2015 and you are feeling again. Why should voters | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
trust you a third time? It is very clear that only the Conservative | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
Party has an ambition to control immigration and to bring it down. An | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
ambition you have failed to deliver. There are, of course, factors that | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
come into play. For example a couple of years ago we were going through a | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
period when the UK was creating huge numbers of jobs but none of our | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
European neighbours were doing anything like it. Not surprisingly, | :20:53. | :20:55. | |
that feeds through into the immigration numbers that we see. But | :20:56. | :21:02. | |
it is right that we have that ambition because I do not believe it | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
is sustainable to have hundreds of thousands net migration, you're | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
after year after year, and only Theresa May of the Conservative | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
Party is willing to address that. It has gone from being a target to an | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
ambition, and I am pretty sure in a couple of years it will become an | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
untimed aspiration. Is net migration now higher or lower than when you | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
came to power in 2010? I think it is higher at the moment. Let's look at | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
the figures. And there they are. You are right, it is higher, so after | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
six years in power, promising to get it down to 100,000, it is higher. So | :21:40. | :21:46. | |
if that is an ambition and you have not succeeded. We have to accept | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
that there are a number of factors. It continues to be the case that the | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
UK economy is growing and creating a lot of jobs, which is undoubtedly | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
drawing people. But you made the promise on the basis that would not | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
happen? We are certainly outperforming other countries in a | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
way that we could not have predicted in 2010. That is one of the factors. | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
But if you look at a lot of the steps that we have taken over the | :22:11. | :22:13. | |
course of the last seven years, dealing with bogus students, for | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
example, tightening up a lot of the rules. You can say all that but it | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
has made no difference to the headline figure. Clearly it would | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
have gone up by much more and we not taken the steps. But as I say, we | :22:27. | :22:32. | |
cannot for ever, it seems to me, have net migration numbers in the | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
hundreds of thousands. If we get that good Brexit deal, one of the | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
things we can do is tighten up in terms of access here. You say that | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
but you have always had control of non-EU migration. You cannot blame | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
the EU for that. You control immigration from outside the EU. | :22:51. | :22:53. | |
Have you ever managed to get even that below 100,000? Well, no doubt | :22:54. | :23:00. | |
you will present the numbers now. You haven't. You have got down a bit | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
from 2010, I will give you that, but even non-EU migration is still a lot | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
more than 100000 and that is the thing you control. It is 164,000 on | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
the latest figures. There is no point in saying to the voters that | :23:16. | :23:18. | |
when we get control of the EU migration you will get it down when | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
the bit you have control over, you have failed to get that down into | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
the tens of thousands. The general trend has gone up. Non-EU migration | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
we have brought down over the last few years. Not by much, not by | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
anywhere near your 100,000 target. But we clearly have more tools | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
available to us, following Brexit. At this rate it will be around 2030 | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
before you get non-EU migration down to 100,000. We clearly have more | :23:48. | :23:50. | |
tools available to us and I return to the point I made. In the last six | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
or seven years, particularly the last four or five, we have seen the | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
UK jobs market growing substantially. It is extraordinary | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
how many more jobs we have. So you'll only promised the migration | :24:04. | :24:05. | |
target because you did not think you were going to run the economy well? | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
That is what you are telling me. I don't think anyone expected us to | :24:11. | :24:13. | |
create quite a number of jobs that we have done over the last six or | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
seven years. At the time when other European countries have not been. | :24:19. | :24:21. | |
George Osborne says your target is economically illiterate. I disagree | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
with George on that. He is my old boss but I disagree with him on that | :24:27. | :24:33. | |
point. And the reason I say that is looking at the economics and the | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
wider social impact, I don't think it is sustainable for us to have | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
hundreds of thousands, year after year after year. Let me ask you one | :24:43. | :24:45. | |
other thing because you are the chief secretary. Your promising that | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
spending on health will be ?8 billion higher in five use time than | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
it is now. How do you pay for that? From a strong economy, two years ago | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
we had a similar conversation because at that point we said that | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
we would increase spending by ?8 billion. And we are more than on | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
track to deliver it, because it is a priority area for us. Where will the | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
money come from? It will be a priority area for us. We will find | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
the money. So you have not been able to show us a revenue line where this | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
?8 billion will come from. We have a record of making promises to spend | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
more on the NHS and delivering. One thing I would say is that the only | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
way you can spend more money on the NHS is if you have a strong economy, | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
and the biggest risk... But that is true of anything. I am trying to | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
find out where the ?8 billion come from, where will it come from? Know | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
you were saying that perhaps you might increase taxes, ticking off | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
the lock, so people are right to be suspicious. But you will not tell us | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
where the ?8 billion will come from. Andrew, a strong economy is key to | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
delivering more NHS money. That does not tell us where the money is | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
coming from. The biggest risk to a strong economy would be a bad | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
Brexit, which Jeremy Corbyn would deliver. And we have a record of | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
putting more money into the NHS. I think that past performance we can | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
take forward. Thank you for joining us. | :26:14. | :26:15. | |
So, the Conservatives have been taking a bit of flak | :26:16. | :26:17. | |
But Conservative big guns have been out and about this morning taking | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
Here's Boris Johnson on ITV's Peston programme earlier today: | :26:23. | :26:25. | |
What we're trying to do is to address what I think | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
everybody, all serious demographers acknowledge will be the massive | :26:30. | :26:32. | |
problem of the cost of social care long-term. | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
This is a responsible, grown-up, conservative approach, | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
trying to deal with a long-term problem in a way that is equitable, | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
allows people to pass on a very substantial sum, | :26:44. | :26:45. | |
still, to their kids, and takes away the fear | :26:46. | :26:47. | |
Joining me now from Liverpool is Labour's Shadow Chief Secretary | :26:48. | :26:54. | |
Petered out, welcome to the programme. Let's start with social | :26:55. | :27:05. | |
care. The Tories are saying that if you have ?100,000 or more in assets, | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
you should pay for your own social care. What is wrong with that? Well, | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
I think the issue at the end of the day is the question of fairness. Is | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
it fair? And what we're trying to do is to get to a situation where we | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
have, for example, the Dilnot report, which identified that you | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
actually have cap on your spending on social care. We are trying to get | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
to a position where it is a reasonable and fair approach to | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
expenditure. But you will know that a lot of people, particularly in the | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
south of country, London and the south-east, and the adjacent areas | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
around it, they have benefited from huge house price inflation. They | :27:48. | :27:50. | |
have seen their homes go up in value, if and when they sell, they | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
are not taxed on that increase. Why should these people not pay for | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
their own social care if they have the assets to do so? They will be | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
paying for some of their social care but you cannot take social care and | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
health care separately. It has to be an integrated approach. So for | :28:11. | :28:13. | |
example if you do have dementia, you're more likely to be in an | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
elderly person's home for longer and you most probably have been in care | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
for a longer period of time. On the other hand, you might have, if you | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
have had a stroke, there may be continuing care needs paid for by | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
the NHS. So at the end of the date it is trying to get a reasonable | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
balance and just to pluck a figure of ?100,000 out of thin air is not | :28:33. | :28:41. | |
sensible. You will have heard me say about David Gold that the house | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
prices in his area, about 450,000 or so, not quite that, and that people | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
may have to spend quite a lot of that on social care to get down to | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
?100,000. But in your area, the average house price is only | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
?149,000, so your people would not have to pay anything like as much | :29:01. | :29:05. | |
before they hit the ?100,000 minimum. I hesitate to say that but | :29:06. | :29:11. | |
is that not almost a socialist approach to social care that if you | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
are in the affluent Home Counties with a big asset, you pay more, and | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
if you are in an area that is not so affluent and your house is not worth | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
very much, you pay a lot less. What is wrong with that principle? I | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
think the problem I am trying to get to is this issue about equity across | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
the piece. At the end of the day, what we want is a system whereby it | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
is capped at a particular level, and the Dilnot report, after much | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
examination, said we should have a cap on care costs at ?72,000. The | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
Conservatives decided to ditch that and come up with another policy | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
which by all accounts seems to be even more Draconian. At the end of | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
the day it is trying to get social care and an NHS care in a much more | :29:54. | :30:03. | |
fluid way. We had offered the Conservatives to have a bipartisan | :30:04. | :30:05. | |
approach to this. David just said that this is a long term. You do not | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
pick a figure out of thin air and use that as a long-term strategy. | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
The Conservatives are now saying they will increase health spending | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
over the next five years in real terms. You will increase health | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
spending. In what way is your approach to health spending better | :30:27. | :30:32. | |
than the Tories' now? We are contributing an extra 7.2 billion to | :30:33. | :30:38. | |
the NHS and social care over the next few years. But you just don't | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
put money into the NHS or social care. It has to be an integrated | :30:44. | :30:48. | |
approach to social and health care. What we've got is just more of the | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
same. What we don't want to do is just say, we ring-fenced an out for | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
here or there. What you have to do is try to get that... Let me ask you | :30:58. | :31:06. | |
again. In terms of the amount of resource that is going to be devoted | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
in the next five years, and resource does matter for the NHS, in what way | :31:11. | :31:16. | |
are your plans different now from the Conservative plans? The key is | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
how you use that resource. By just putting money in, you've got to say, | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
if we are going to put that money on, how do we use it? As somebody | :31:27. | :31:32. | |
who has worked in social care for 40 years, you have to have a different | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
approach to how you use that money. The money we are putting in, 7.7, | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
may be similar in cash terms to what the Tories claim they are putting | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
in, but it's not how much you put in per se, it is how you use it. You | :31:47. | :32:00. | |
are going to get rid of car parking charges in hospital, and you are | :32:01. | :32:03. | |
going to increase pay by taking the cap on pay off. So it doesn't | :32:04. | :32:05. | |
necessarily follow that the money, under your way of doing it, will | :32:06. | :32:08. | |
follow the front line. What you need in the NHS is a system that is | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
capable of dealing with the patience you have. What we have now is on at | :32:13. | :32:19. | |
five Asian of the NHS. Staff leaving, not being paid properly. So | :32:20. | :32:29. | |
pay and the NHS go hand in hand. Let's move onto another area of | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
policy where there is some confusion. Who speaks for the Labour | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
Party on nuclear weapons? Is it Emily Thornbury, or Nia Griffith, | :32:39. | :32:45. | |
defence spokesperson? The Labour manifesto. It is clear. We are | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
committed to the nuclear deterrent, and that is the definitive... Is it? | :32:50. | :33:00. | |
Emily Thornbury said that Trident could be scrapped in the defence | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
review you would have immediately after taking power. On LBC on Friday | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
night. She didn't, actually. I listened to that. What she actually | :33:10. | :33:15. | |
said is, as part of a Labour government coming in, a new | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
government, there is always a defence review. But not the concept | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
of Trident in its substance. She said there would be a review in | :33:25. | :33:31. | |
terms of, and this is in our manifesto. When you reduce | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
something, you review how it is operated. The review could scrap | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
Trident. It won't scrap Trident. The review is in the context of how you | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
protect it from cyber attacks. This will issue was seized upon that she | :33:47. | :33:52. | |
was saying that we would have another review of Trident or Labour | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
would ditch it. That is nonsense. You will have seen some reports that | :33:58. | :34:04. | |
MI5 opened a file on Jeremy Corbyn in the early 90s because of his | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
links to Irish republicanism. This has caused some people, his links to | :34:09. | :34:16. | |
the IRA and Sinn Fein, it has caused some concern. Could you just listen | :34:17. | :34:23. | |
to this clip and react. Do you condemn what the IRA did? I condemn | :34:24. | :34:30. | |
all bombing. But do you condemn what the IRA did? I condemn what was done | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
with the British Army as well as both sides as well. What happened in | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
Derry in 1972 was pretty devastating as well. Do you distinguish between | :34:40. | :34:46. | |
state forces, what the British Army did and the IRA? Well, in a sense, | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
the treatment of IRA prisoners which made them into virtual political | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
prisoners suggested that the British government and the state saw some | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
kind of almost equivalent in it. My point is that the whole violence if | :35:03. | :35:09. | |
you was terrible, was appalling, and came out of a process that had been | :35:10. | :35:16. | |
allowed to fester in Northern Ireland for a very long time. That | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
was from about two years ago. Can you explain why the Leader of the | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
Labour Party, Her Majesty 's opposition, the man who would be our | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
next Prime Minister, finds it so hard to condemn IRA arming? I think | :35:30. | :35:36. | |
it has to be within the context that Jeremy Corbyn for many years trying | :35:37. | :35:39. | |
to move the peace protest... Process along. So why wouldn't you condemn | :35:40. | :35:48. | |
IRA bombing? Again, that was an issue, a traumatic event in Irish - | :35:49. | :35:55. | |
British relations that went on for 30 years. It is a complicated | :35:56. | :36:01. | |
matter. Bombing is not that complicated. If you are a man of | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
peace, surely you would condemn the bomb and the bullet? Let me say | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
this, I condemn the bomb and the bullet. Why can't your leader? You | :36:11. | :36:16. | |
would have to ask Jeremy Corbyn, but that is in the context of what he | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
was trying to do over a 25 year period to move the priest process | :36:22. | :36:23. | |
along. Thank you for joining us. It's just gone 11.35, | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :36:27. | :36:28. | |
in Scotland and Wales. Hello, welcome to | :36:29. | :36:37. | |
Sunday Politics East. Later in the programme, | :36:38. | :36:39. | |
what the over 65s make of plans which could mean pension increases | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
in the future will be lower. But let's start with | :36:45. | :36:46. | |
small businesses. In 2016 we had more than half | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
a million small businesses in this region, one of the highest figures | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
per head in the country. According to the latest | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
survey by the Federation of Small Businesses, | :36:58. | :37:00. | |
members across the east of England are most worried about rising costs | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
and want the next Government to help reduce the bill for | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
national insurance. This is a highly paid region | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
with the average wage Unemployment is 3.9%, | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
well below the national average. Of course small businesses are | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
an important part of all of that. According to new research, | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
our small businesses want a business rates review | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
and superfast broadband. They also want a good | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
deal on Brexit. This report from Sam Reid starts | :37:33. | :37:34. | |
with some flashing images. Bringing a spark to | :37:35. | :37:41. | |
the Northamptonshire economy. This metal might not look much | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
but it's precise technology being produced at this motorsport | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
engineering film, RML These frames will end up | :37:49. | :37:50. | |
on cars at racing teams So with Brexit on everyone's mind, | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
bosses here say a good international trade deal - | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
quickly - is key. Certainly we would want | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
to hear information around those trade agreements, | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
when are they going to happen, Key to us is our ability, at | :38:08. | :38:09. | |
the moment we are quite competitive. With the drop in the strength | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
of the pound means that for exporting we are in a very good | :38:15. | :38:17. | |
situation right now. But knowing what that is going | :38:18. | :38:19. | |
to look like in the future, some stability over what markets can | :38:20. | :38:22. | |
I concentrate on trying 80% of this firm's | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
trade is overseas. The fastest-growing | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
market is the Far East. But Europe is important | :38:31. | :38:33. | |
and at the moment it is not clear when in the UK will get to talk | :38:34. | :38:36. | |
about a trade deal. And this will be a key issue | :38:37. | :38:39. | |
for the new Government. But any suggestion this should | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
be defined as a Brexit election is rejected | :38:45. | :38:47. | |
by business leaders here. Brexit is important to a lot | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
of businesses in the locality but it is not the be | :38:52. | :38:53. | |
all and end all. Basically getting the fundamentals | :38:54. | :38:56. | |
right, the next Government, at the infrastructure, | :38:57. | :38:58. | |
they've got to look at the locality we are in so that devolution etc, | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
where funds are coming locally, they've got to make sure | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
that is right for this environment and they've got | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
to concentrate on International We do a lot of documentation | :39:12. | :39:13. | |
from this chamber to other parts of the world and that is | :39:14. | :39:20. | |
on the increase. The view that we need to look | :39:21. | :39:22. | |
beyond just Brexit is shared here. This Northampton-based | :39:23. | :39:28. | |
heating and plumbing company employs 90 people, | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
12 of them are apprentices. It is nice to learn a trade and be | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
paid at the same time. So you don't have to worry | :39:38. | :39:40. | |
about going to university or getting But the boss says they are having | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
to train apprentices like these because the skills they need | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
aren't out there. If we had more people, | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
we could do more work. We are turning away work at this | :39:52. | :39:53. | |
present moment because we haven't So we are putting the commitment | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
in to train those people, we just need the commitment back | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
to ensure that we can Financial commitment | :40:02. | :40:04. | |
is a really key issue. It's a big overhead at the moment | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
that we have of training, Skills have an impact | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
on business but of course also Employment rates here | :40:15. | :40:20. | |
in a soggy Northamptonshire are above the national average | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
but wages are lower with full-time workers earning ?45 a week | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
less than the average This week we learnt that inflation, | :40:30. | :40:32. | |
the rate at which prices are rising, has increased to its highest rate | :40:33. | :40:38. | |
for more than three years. That is leaving some | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
here feeling in the pinch. I probably get the going rate | :40:43. | :40:44. | |
for the role that I do. What I'm earning, everything | :40:45. | :40:51. | |
is going up, mortgages A lot of hours worked but you don't | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
feel like you're getting any more. You can work more and you still feel | :40:57. | :41:08. | |
like you are buying the same things, you're not getting any more | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
for your money these days. I'm a mother of two | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
so I think we are all feeling Is there anything the Government | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
could do, the next Government, to get more better paid | :41:20. | :41:25. | |
jobs into Northamptonshire? I think we need to increase our | :41:26. | :41:27. | |
industry at the moment, more investment opportunities need | :41:28. | :41:33. | |
to be created. Back at RML in Wellingborough, | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
these batteries for electric cars are being tested before | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
being shipped to China. But the message here | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
is if the economy is to be fully charged, the next Government | :41:46. | :41:48. | |
will have to think about a lot In the manifestos this week, | :41:49. | :41:50. | |
the Conservatives say they want to carry on reducing red | :41:51. | :41:58. | |
tape for small businesses. Labour wants to reintroduce | :41:59. | :42:00. | |
a lower small profits And the Lib Dems want to expand | :42:01. | :42:03. | |
the British Business Bank which would provide long term | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
capital for small and So what is it that | :42:09. | :42:10. | |
small business needs. Graham Buck is a Regional Chairman | :42:11. | :42:23. | |
of the Federation of Small Business. What could be even better is of some | :42:24. | :42:32. | |
of these ideas were put into medium-term planning, not just | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
flavour of the month. We have had brought tax regimes before that | :42:37. | :42:43. | |
quietly disappeared. What matters above all to businesses and | :42:44. | :42:46. | |
stability, that way you can plan a business and develop and grow it. If | :42:47. | :42:52. | |
people are altering too many things too much of the time it is difficult | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
to create a growing business. Are you saying politicians are promised | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
in the air provided nothing? No, we are seeing a not very good at | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
remembering what he promised after the election. Other things become | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
more important. The bureaucracy that the Conservatives are talking about, | :43:12. | :43:14. | |
is that one of the things which is worrying what people and small | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
businesses? It is, because if you are a small business without | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
departments to do things, and regulations come along, that | :43:25. | :43:26. | |
actively detracts from your ability to to run the business and make | :43:27. | :43:32. | |
profits and take on more people and contribute to the economy. And | :43:33. | :43:35. | |
Labour are seeing small profits rate of corporation tax they would change | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
that, presumably that is one of the cost things you would welcome? We | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
would, provided it is a reasonable medium-term commitment and not just | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
something that is good for election purposes but then gets quietly | :43:48. | :43:51. | |
dropped thereafter. Keep being told that people are addressing the | :43:52. | :43:55. | |
skills shortage, as it's been addressed or do you think that the | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
still a problem? There are various aspects to it. One is of course our | :44:01. | :44:09. | |
concern about the situation of non-British EU nationals working in | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
this country, our views are very simple that they should be allowed | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
to stay. Right up until the day we leave anybody should be able to come | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
here under the present arrangements and that he also think the | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
apprenticeship system is very good but needs extending and developing. | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
The migrant workers thing is about cost per unit of employee? Not just | :44:31. | :44:37. | |
that, don't forget that a significant number of members who by | :44:38. | :44:41. | |
definition are business model is our themselves migrants from the rest of | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
the EU. This is not just about the workforce, this is about people | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
starting and developing businesses, entrepreneurs, what this country | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
desperately needs. We've heard a lot about broadband, is that not getting | :44:54. | :45:00. | |
better? It is patchy. We are getting fed up with major infrastructure | :45:01. | :45:03. | |
providers and off, putting statistics, there is a subtle | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
difference between a statistic and whether or not your business | :45:08. | :45:09. | |
business can get adequate capacity broadband. Your pet streaming | :45:10. | :45:18. | |
parties, what would you like? I think legislation and taxation need | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
to be dramatically simplified for the smaller business, simply that. | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
Let us get on with running the business, not completing the | :45:28. | :45:38. | |
paperwork. Thank you. That seems fairly clear, Vicky? Absolutely. | :45:39. | :45:44. | |
Since 2010 around 1 million more businesses in the UK, when Labour | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
was last in power at the corporation tax was 20%, it is now 19% and | :45:51. | :46:00. | |
actually reducing tax and reducing red tape is absolutely key, that's | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
why we have also got the red tape challenge. As an NEP I have | :46:05. | :46:11. | |
represented small businesses across the region and the Federation of | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
Small Businesses manifesto ask for 30 key point is the first of which | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
is securing certainty through Brexit and beyond. This point is that | :46:22. | :46:28. | |
actually most politicians make promises and don't keep them. | :46:29. | :46:35. | |
Certainty through Brexit and beyond which is why we have the Brexit | :46:36. | :46:38. | |
strategy and why I want to reason me to be leading the negotiations for a | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
position of strength and not handing over to Jeremy Corbyn and the | :46:44. | :46:46. | |
chaotic approach that he would have any coalition. That is why we need | :46:47. | :46:55. | |
to get that right and then invest in apprenticeships and skills is key, | :46:56. | :47:01. | |
manifesto commitment is up to 3 million. We will keep these | :47:02. | :47:09. | |
promises. Let him defend his leader. The problem with this argument as | :47:10. | :47:12. | |
you are ignoring the seven years the Tories have been in power, I don't | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
know who you want to blame it on, the Lib Dems are David Cameron. It | :47:18. | :47:20. | |
is all about to reason me know. These are still issues we haven't | :47:21. | :47:31. | |
invested in the basics. We changed tax-free genes and that is one of | :47:32. | :47:34. | |
the reasons Labour wants to introduce lower rates to small | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
businesses rather get massive discounts to big businesses. We have | :47:38. | :47:48. | |
invested, we have a strong economy, the sickest Springwatch second | :47:49. | :47:51. | |
strongest growing after Germany. We have more businesses than ever | :47:52. | :47:54. | |
before. What about the seven years of not having achieved? We have more | :47:55. | :48:01. | |
apprenticeships than ever before, I have some fantastic degree | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
apprenticeships starting as well, we have this new commitment to take | :48:06. | :48:11. | |
levels as well as A-levels so young people can do technical training. | :48:12. | :48:15. | |
Surely the most important thing is stability. You talk a lot about | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
strong and stable, there is nothing strong or stable about an economy | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
when we don't even know where we're going to be in two years. The points | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
were made really well by the Federation of small business, you | :48:30. | :48:32. | |
need a Brexit steel that is going to deliver for business and therefore | :48:33. | :48:34. | |
deliver for people. At the minute Theresa May is going off in one | :48:35. | :48:39. | |
direction and left unchecked and given a blank cheque we are going to | :48:40. | :48:42. | |
end up in a situation where stability is... I disagree. We have | :48:43. | :48:50. | |
we had a chaotic labour economy and we have a strong economy. We going | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
into the most competitive negotiations of a generation and we | :48:55. | :48:58. | |
need to make sure that those are held with certainty and stability | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
which is why we have... Look at what we have done since the referendum | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
and holding the economy strong and encouraging investment to continue | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
and we do need to deliver the negotiations. I do see it is | :49:14. | :49:22. | |
chaotic? There hasn't been a political situation and are relating | :49:23. | :49:25. | |
to rehashing more people and yet we are going into this election which | :49:26. | :49:31. | |
is it approaches for opportunistic reasons so that Theresa May can get | :49:32. | :49:34. | |
that strong and stable position but without any idea what we're for the | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
end of it. Stability is the most important thing, we have laid out | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
our approach, it is know for Theresa May to lay. | :49:44. | :49:46. | |
In this region one in four people are 65 or over - | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
The manifestos will have given them lots to think about. | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
The Conservatives say they will make changes including means testing | :49:55. | :49:57. | |
the winter fuel allowance and a plan to end the triple lock on pensions. | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
The triple lock is a guarantee that pensions will rise | :50:01. | :50:03. | |
By the increase in average earnings or by 2.5 per cent, | :50:04. | :50:07. | |
The triple lock would end in three years' time to be replaced | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
with a double lock linked only to earnings or inflation. | :50:14. | :50:15. | |
Labour and the Lib Dems would keep the triple lock. | :50:16. | :50:21. | |
Earlier this week I went to meet pensioner Brian Andews who's | :50:22. | :50:24. | |
Well, I am a newbie to pensions and I was 65 last year. | :50:25. | :50:33. | |
I have the new state pension, thank you very much, | :50:34. | :50:35. | |
and the two and a half percent we get with the triple | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
It keeps pace with inflation, with higher prices, and we get two | :50:40. | :50:46. | |
and a half percent as you know as a minimum. | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
And it is very important that we get this, if we don't then the ?600 | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
a month pension that goes into your bank account is probably | :50:57. | :50:59. | |
going to diminish over time and the youngsters out | :51:00. | :51:02. | |
there will end up with a pension much less than what we get now | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
So as far as you're concerned, why should the Government do this | :51:07. | :51:13. | |
Well, you know, if the Government are having a difficult | :51:14. | :51:22. | |
time with the economy, why should pensioners who have paid | :51:23. | :51:24. | |
I've got 44, my wife has got 42 years of contributions | :51:25. | :51:34. | |
We've paid into a pension scheme and now we want our money out | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
and we want it protected as you do with a private pension. | :51:41. | :51:45. | |
Why should we have to pay for Government | :51:46. | :51:47. | |
It's not fair and I think there are other ways | :51:48. | :51:52. | |
I disagree with Brian. I take the view that this is not money that | :51:53. | :52:09. | |
people have just felt away, they have invested it and pay the | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
national insurance all this time. We know prices will significantly. Most | :52:15. | :52:22. | |
pensions are paid out of the pension pot, we haven't got up a great | :52:23. | :52:26. | |
pale... I would like to see politicians be honest and say to | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
to UB group to keep them but it is to UB group to keep them but it is | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
not just the triple lock, it is the winter fuel payments that Theresa | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
May isn't committing to, it is the raising of the retirement age and it | :52:40. | :52:44. | |
is the inheritance tax cost, attacks on illness. If these are the things | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
they Tories are talking about and then manifesto, given five years and | :52:49. | :52:50. | |
a blank cheque we are going to find out exactly what they want to do to | :52:51. | :52:56. | |
have a pensioners. Under Labour, pensions had fallen way behind which | :52:57. | :53:02. | |
increases so the triple lock was put there in order to increase pensions | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
will stop the Tories put it in, pensions have gone up by over ?1200 | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
a year. Now they are ahead of wages. The double block will mean your | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
pension is still linked to inflation, it still goes up with | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
inflation but it means that there is no fairness between young and old. | :53:22. | :53:23. | |
In terms of winter fuel allowance, In terms of winter fuel allowance, | :53:24. | :53:26. | |
if you need it you will still get it. It will be means tested buddy | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
Richard Branson 's of this world don't need it and they want to. That | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
money then got into the which is really need the money to go. He is | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
saying you have a blank check if you win this election and all sorts of | :53:40. | :53:45. | |
other things will happen. We have commitments and we have made | :53:46. | :53:49. | |
commitments we have helped too. We have said in the past we have had | :53:50. | :53:52. | |
the triple lock it has done its job, no pensions will go up with | :53:53. | :53:55. | |
inflation. And the winter fuel allowance it will be means tested if | :53:56. | :54:02. | |
you need that he will keep it. The 2.5% has hardly ever actually come | :54:03. | :54:07. | |
into play? But the that was a key part of this commitment that we made | :54:08. | :54:12. | |
two people because very simply it covers all sorts of scenarios. It | :54:13. | :54:16. | |
may be that we can be very predictable at what is happen in the | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
economy for the next five years, I would personally prefer an assurance | :54:23. | :54:25. | |
that we can to older voters to make sure that they don't fall back into | :54:26. | :54:29. | |
pensioner proper poverty and have the people are in poverty are still | :54:30. | :54:37. | |
pensioners. If you go into a care home, your savings go right down to | :54:38. | :54:42. | |
20,000. We are quadruple in the amount of your savings that you and | :54:43. | :54:45. | |
your partner can keep you going to a care home. But that has got to be | :54:46. | :54:51. | |
fair between those at home and those in a home. But if you are cared for | :54:52. | :54:55. | |
and your own home you are going to lose it very significantly under | :54:56. | :55:01. | |
these changes and people are realising the threat that Tory | :55:02. | :55:05. | |
Government 's presents to older voters know. My own view is that | :55:06. | :55:09. | |
risks should be shared across all of us when we don't know what the risk | :55:10. | :55:12. | |
is likely to be. One of one in four of us only to hear and I can tell | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
you who it is. Let's protect all people not just those people that we | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
can... We are raising by four times the amount of savings that are | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
protected and we are making it fair between those at home and at home. | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
But at home as an important... This is an issue we have seen all this | :55:31. | :55:36. | |
week has been making the front page of the papers so it is something | :55:37. | :55:39. | |
that's... It has a real issue. Not only do just this week of someone | :55:40. | :55:44. | |
whose father was at home whose mother had dementia and in a home | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
and for the father who had been left alone, what is savings are basically | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
gone to this tiny level that he couldn't afford to then go on a | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
holiday or take a break respite. We will note the triple the amount for | :55:57. | :56:05. | |
that father and have that fear. The average cost of the house is 270 | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
7000. The reason we have to do this is because we are living longer. We | :56:10. | :56:11. | |
must move on. Now our round up of the political | :56:12. | :56:17. | |
week in 60 seconds Patients suffered delays | :56:18. | :56:19. | |
and cancellations in the aftermath of last week's cyber attack | :56:20. | :56:27. | |
on NHS computer systems. Colchester Hospital | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
was one of those hit. We got 3000 PCs across | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
the organisation in all clinical We have looked at probably | :56:37. | :56:39. | |
about half of those so far The Conservative's plans for school | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
funding failed to impress some We know that the Department | :56:44. | :56:48. | |
for Education were looking to remove ?3 billion from school budgets just | :56:49. | :56:54. | |
in the next couple of years sought to offer 4 billion over five years | :56:55. | :56:57. | |
clearly isn't going to achieve Home Office Minister Great Yarmouth | :56:58. | :57:02. | |
candidate Brandon Lewis got a chilly reception | :57:03. | :57:11. | |
at the Police Federation conference. As those police officer | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
numbers have changed, we have actually seen crime fall | :57:16. | :57:18. | |
by about one third since 2010. And Unite for Europe's | :57:19. | :57:21. | |
effigy of Theresa May I stop about education and school | :57:22. | :57:44. | |
meals. The money from school meals will be going into education, we | :57:45. | :57:46. | |
need more money in education and that is the and also a region we | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
must get the fairer funding for schools. Vast parts of East Anglia | :57:52. | :57:59. | |
are underfunded but the fairer funding is absolutely key. It | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
teaches I'm speaking to say take the money away from the music that into | :58:04. | :58:09. | |
the teaching. But every child is hungry they don't learn. That is why | :58:10. | :58:12. | |
breakfast is more important than lunch. And the parents who can | :58:13. | :58:18. | |
afford it... Shouldn't it be breakfast and lunch. I grew up on | :58:19. | :58:27. | |
feeling like I was different because feeling like I was different because | :58:28. | :58:32. | |
of that and at the heart of it, this policy which a Government introduced | :58:33. | :58:35. | |
in the first place was to make sure you remove that stigma and reason | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
learning standards. Show me the evidence that this is a better way | :58:40. | :58:42. | |
to achieve that and I will be on board but the evidence isn't there | :58:43. | :58:46. | |
at the something that has been sucked into the manifesto and I | :58:47. | :58:50. | |
think most Tories are afraid to talk about it because it would work the | :58:51. | :58:52. | |
repetition of taking news away from hungry kids. Bail? Bail? Don't leave | :58:53. | :59:05. | |
the snick but we need to support those who need it badly to put the | :59:06. | :59:09. | |
money into education. Thank you very much. It is a a busy couple of | :59:10. | :59:16. | |
weeks. Thank you for taking the time to be with us this morning. | :59:17. | :59:19. | |
Don't forget you can watch the programme online | :59:20. | :59:22. | |
through our website - we're back next week in the final | :59:23. | :59:24. | |
fortnight of the campaign, now back to Andrew. | :59:25. | :59:32. | |
cancelled. And rent to own is still our policy. Thank you very much, Tom | :59:33. | :59:33. | |
Brake. Andrew, back to you. So, two and half weeks | :59:34. | :59:40. | |
to go till polling day, let's take stock of the campaign | :59:41. | :59:43. | |
so far and look ahead Sam, Isabel and Steve | :59:44. | :59:45. | |
are with me again. Sam, Mrs May had made a great thing | :59:46. | :59:59. | |
about the just about managing. Not the poorest of the poor, but not | :00:00. | :00:04. | |
really affluent people, who are maybe OK but it's a bit of a | :00:05. | :00:10. | |
struggle. What is in the manifesto for them? There is something about | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
the high profile items in the manifesto. She said she wants to | :00:15. | :00:18. | |
help those just above the poorest level. But if you look at things | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
like the winter fuel allowance, which is going to be given only to | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
the poorest. If you look at free school meals for infants, those for | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
the poorest are going to be kept, but the rest will go. The social | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
care plan, those who are renting or in properties worth up to ?90,000, | :00:39. | :00:44. | |
they are going to be treated, but those in properties worth above | :00:45. | :00:51. | |
that, 250,000, for example, will have to pay. Which leads to the | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
question - what is being done for the just about managings? There is | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
something, the personal allowance that David Cameron promised in 2015, | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
that they are not making a big deal of that, because they cannot say by | :01:06. | :01:12. | |
how much. So you are looking in tax rises on the just about managings. | :01:13. | :01:19. | |
Where will the tax rises come from. We do not know, that there is the 40 | :01:20. | :01:28. | |
million pounds gap for the Tories to reach what they are pledging in | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
their manifesto. We do not know how that is going to be made up, more | :01:32. | :01:38. | |
tax, or more borrowing? So that is why the questions of the | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
implications of removing the tax lock are so potentially difficult | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
for Tory MPs. The Labour manifesto gives figures for the cost of | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
certain policies and where the revenue will come from. You can | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
argue about the figures, but at least we have the figures. The Tory | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
manifesto is opaque on these matters. That applies to both the | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
manifestos. Looking at the Labour manifesto on the way here this | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
morning, when you look at the section on care for the elderly, | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
they simply say, there are various ways in which the money for this can | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
be raised. They are specific on other things. They are, and we heard | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
John McDonnell this morning being very on that, and saying there is | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
not a single ? in Tory manifesto. I have only got to page 66. It is | :02:30. | :02:36. | |
quite broad brush and they are very open to challenge. For example, on | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
the detail of a number of their flagship things. There is no detail | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
on their immigration policy. They reiterate the ambition, but not how | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
they are going to do that, without a massive increase in resource for | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
Borders officials. We are at a time where average wages are lagging | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
behind prices. And in work benefits remain frozen. I would have thought | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
that the just-about-managings are people who are in work but they need | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
some in work benefits to make life tolerable and be able to pay bills. | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
Doesn't she has to do more for them? Maybe, but this whole manifesto was | :03:20. | :03:27. | |
her inner circle saying, right, this is our chance to express our... It | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
partly reads like a sort of philosophical essay at times. About | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
the challenges, individualism against collectivism. Some of it | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
reads quite well and is quite interesting, but in terms of its | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
detail, Labour would never get away with it. They wouldn't be allowed to | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
be so vague about where taxes are going to rise. We know there are | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
going to be tax rises after the election, but we don't know where | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
they will be. 100%, there will be tax rises. We know that they wanted | :04:03. | :04:09. | |
a tax rise in the last budget, but they couldn't get it through because | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
of the 2015 manifesto. Labour do offer a lot more detail. People | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
could disagree with it, but there is a lot more detail. More to get your | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
teeth into. About capital gains tax and the rises for better owners and | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
so on. The SNP manifesto comes out this week, and the Greens and Sinn | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
Fein. We think Ukip as well. There are more manifestos to come. The Lib | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
Dems have already brought theirs out. Isn't the Liberal Democrat | :04:42. | :04:48. | |
campaign in trouble? It doesn't seem to be doing particular the well in | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
the polls, or at the local elections a few weeks ago. The Liberal | :04:55. | :04:57. | |
Democrats are trying to fish in quite a small pool for votes. They | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
are looking to get votes from those remainers who want to reverse the | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
result, in effect. Tim Farron is promising a second referendum on the | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
deal at the end of the negotiation process. And that is a hard sell. So | :05:14. | :05:21. | |
those voting for remain on June 23 are not low hanging fruit by any | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
means? Polls suggesting that half of those want to reverse the result, so | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
that is a feeling of about 20% on the Lib Dems, and they are getting | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
slightly less than half at the moment, but there are not a huge | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
amount of votes for them to get on that strategy. It doesn't feel like | :05:42. | :05:49. | |
Tim Farron and the Lib Dems have promised enough. They are making a | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
very serious case on cannabis use in a nightclub, but the optics of what | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
they are discussing doesn't make them look like an anchor in a future | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
coalition government that they would need to be. I wonder if we are | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
seeing the re-emergence of the 2-party system? And it is not the | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
same two parties. In Scotland, the dynamics of this election seemed to | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
be the Nationalists against the Conservatives. In England, if you | :06:16. | :06:17. | |
look at what has happened to be Ukip vote, and what Sam was saying about | :06:18. | :06:35. | |
the Lib Dems are struggling a bit to get some traction, it is | :06:36. | :06:36. | |
overwhelmingly Labour and the Conservatives. A different 2-party | :06:37. | :06:38. | |
system from Scotland, but a 2-party system. There are a number of | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
different election is going on in parallel. In Scotland it is about | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
whether you are unionist or not. Here, we have the collapse of the | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
Ukip vote, which looks as though it is being redistributed in the | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
Tories' favour. This is a unique election, and will not necessarily | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
set the trend for elections to come. In the Tory manifesto, I spotted the | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
fact that the fixed term Parliament act is going to be scrapped. That | :07:06. | :07:14. | |
got almost no coverage! It turned out to be academic anyway, that it | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
tells you something about how Theresa May is feeling, and she | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
wants the control to call an election whenever it suits her. | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
Re-emergence of the 2-party system, for this election or beyond? For | :07:28. | :07:36. | |
this election, yes, but it shows the sort of robust strength of parties | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
and their fragility. In other words, the Lib Dems haven't really | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
recovered from the losses in the last general election, and are | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
therefore not really seen as a robust vehicle to deliver Remain. If | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
they were, they might be doing better. The Labour Party hasn't | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
recovered in Scotland, and yet, if you look at the basic divide in | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
England and Scotland and you see two parties battling it out, it is very, | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
very hard for the smaller parties to break through and last. Many appear | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
briefly on the political stage and then disappear again. The election | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
had the ostensible goal of Brexit, but we haven't heard much about it | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
in the campaign. Perhaps the Tories want to get back onto that. David | :08:25. | :08:31. | |
Davis sounding quite tough this morning, the Brexit minister, saying | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
there is no chance we will talk about 100 billion. And we have to | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
have power in the negotiations on the free trade deal or what ever it | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
is. I think they are keen to get the subject of the manifesto at this | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
point, because it has not started too well. There is an irony that | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
Theresa May ostensibly called the election because she needed a | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
stronger hand in the Brexit negotiations, and there was an | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
opportunity for the Lib Dems, with their unique offer of being the | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
party that is absolutely against the outcome of the referendum, and | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
offering another chance. There hasn't been much airtime on that | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
particular pledge, because instead, this election has segued into being | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
all about leadership. Theresa May's leadership, and looking again at the | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
Tory manifesto, I was struck that she was saying that this is my plan | :09:26. | :09:33. | |
for the future, not ABBA plan. Even when talking about social care, he | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
manages to work in a bit about Theresa May and Brexit. And Boris | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
Johnson this morning, an interview he gave on another political | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
programme this morning, it was extraordinarily sycophantic for him. | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
Isn't Theresa May wonderful. There is a man trying to secure his job in | :09:53. | :09:59. | |
the Foreign Office! Will he succeed? I think she will leave him. Better | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
in the tent than out. What did you make of David Davis' remarks? He was | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
basically saying, we will walk away from the negotiating table if the | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
Europeans slam a bill for 100 billion euros. The point is that the | :10:18. | :10:25. | |
Europeans will not slam a bill for 100 billion euros on the negotiating | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
table. That is the gross figure. There are all sorts of things that | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
need to be taken into account. I imagine they will ask for something | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
around the 50 or ?60 billion mark. It looks that they are trying to | :10:40. | :10:46. | |
make it look like a concession when they do make their demands in order | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
to soften the ground for what is going to happen just two weeks after | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
general election day. He makes a reasonable point about having | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
parallel talks. What they want to do straightaway is deal with the bill, | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
Northern Ireland and citizens rights. All of those things are very | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
complicated and interlinked issues, which cannot be dealt with in | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
isolation. I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with parallel talks, | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
just to work out where we are going with Northern Ireland and the | :11:17. | :11:22. | |
border. Steve, you can't work out what the Northern Ireland border | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
will be, and EU citizens' writes here, until you work out what our | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
relationship with the EU in the future will be. Indeed. The British | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
government is under pressure to deal quickly with the border issue in | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
Ireland, but feel they can't do so because when you have a tariff free | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
arrangement outcome, or an arrangement that is much more | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
protectionist, and that will determine partly the nature of the | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
border. You cannot have a quick agreement on that front without | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
knowing the rest of the deal. I think the negotiation will be | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
complex. I am certain they want a deal rather than none, because this | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
is no deal thing is part of the negotiation at this early stage. | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
Sounding tough in the general election campaign also works | :12:12. | :12:14. | |
electorally. But after the election, it will be a tough negotiation, | :12:15. | :12:22. | |
beginning with this cost of Brexit. My understanding is that the | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
government feels it's got to make the Europeans think they will not do | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
a deal in order to get a deal. They don't want no deal. Absolutely not. | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
And I'm sure it plays into the election. I'm sure the rhetoric will | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
change when the election is over. That's all for today, | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
thank you to all my guests. The Daily Politics will be | :12:44. | :12:45. | |
back on BBC Two at 12.00 And tomorrow evening I will be | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
starting my series of interviews with the party leaders - | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
first up is the Prime Minister, Theresa May, | :12:53. | :12:54. | |
that's at 7pm on BBC One. And I'll be back here at the same | :12:55. | :12:56. | |
time on BBC One next Sunday. Remember - if it's Sunday, | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. We've made great strides | :13:01. | :13:48. | |
tackling HIV. Imagine if we could | :13:49. | :13:50. | |
create a movement | :13:51. | :13:53. |