Browse content similar to 05/11/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning, everyone,
and welcome to the Sunday Politics. | 0:00:37 | 0:00:39 | |
I'm Sarah Smith. | 0:00:39 | 0:00:41 | |
And this is your guide to everything
that's happening in the world | 0:00:41 | 0:00:44 | |
of politics this Sunday morning. | 0:00:44 | 0:00:45 | |
On today's show: | 0:00:45 | 0:00:48 | |
Theresa May's right-hand man
Damian Green has denied claims that | 0:00:48 | 0:00:51 | |
police found pornography
on a computer in his office in 2008. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:57 | |
He says the allegations by a former
police chief are "political smears." | 0:00:57 | 0:01:00 | |
With claims of sexual harassment
at Westminster growing by the day, | 0:01:00 | 0:01:03 | |
can either Theresa May
or Jeremy Corbyn do anything to get | 0:01:03 | 0:01:05 | |
to grips with a scandal
threatening to engulf | 0:01:05 | 0:01:07 | |
the entire political class? | 0:01:07 | 0:01:11 | |
We'll ask a minister and senior
member of the Shadow Cabinet. | 0:01:11 | 0:01:18 | |
And some on the left of politics
have been gathering to mark 100 | 0:01:18 | 0:01:27 | |
Growing
have been gathering to mark 100 | 0:01:27 | 0:01:27 | |
Growing concern
have been gathering to mark 100 | 0:01:27 | 0:01:28 | |
Growing concern over
have been gathering to mark 100 | 0:01:28 | 0:01:28 | |
Growing concern over who
have been gathering to mark 100 | 0:01:28 | 0:01:28 | |
Growing concern over who will
have been gathering to mark 100 | 0:01:28 | 0:01:29 | |
Growing concern over who will
harvest our crops as Brexit gets | 0:01:29 | 0:01:31 | |
closer. | 0:01:31 | 0:01:31 | |
So there's plenty of
explosive political news | 0:01:45 | 0:01:46 | |
to get you in the mood
for bonfire night - | 0:01:46 | 0:01:49 | |
and with me as usual,
three journalists who know quite | 0:01:49 | 0:01:51 | |
a bit about parliamentary plots -
if rather less about | 0:01:51 | 0:01:53 | |
gunpowder and treason. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:54 | |
It's Tom Newton Dunn,
Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:57 | |
So what are the big political
stories making the news this Sunday? | 0:01:57 | 0:02:00 | |
Well, the papers are brimming
with further allegations against MPs | 0:02:00 | 0:02:08 | |
in the sexual harassment scandal,
which according to one newspaper has | 0:02:08 | 0:02:11 | |
left Westminster frozen in fear. | 0:02:11 | 0:02:12 | |
First Secretary of State Damian
Green, already under | 0:02:12 | 0:02:14 | |
investigation over allegations -
which he strongly denies - | 0:02:14 | 0:02:16 | |
of propositioning a female activist,
is the subject of new claims that | 0:02:16 | 0:02:19 | |
police discovered pornography
on a computer in his Westminster | 0:02:19 | 0:02:21 | |
office in 2008. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:23 | |
Mr Green denies the allegation,
made by former senior | 0:02:23 | 0:02:25 | |
police officer Bob Quick,
saying it is "completely untrue," | 0:02:25 | 0:02:27 | |
and adding that he is the victim
of disreputable "political smears." | 0:02:27 | 0:02:35 | |
Michael Fallon, who resigned
as Defence Secretary this week | 0:02:35 | 0:02:38 | |
over his past behaviour,
is also subject to fresh claims | 0:02:38 | 0:02:40 | |
he lunged at a female journalist
in 2003 after a lunch. | 0:02:40 | 0:02:46 | |
Labour is facing questions
over its handling of sexual | 0:02:46 | 0:02:48 | |
misconduct allegations. | 0:02:48 | 0:02:55 | |
This morning Shadow Cabinet minister
Dawn Butler refused to be drawn | 0:02:55 | 0:02:58 | |
on whether Jeremy Corbyn knew
about alleged misconduct by MP | 0:02:58 | 0:03:00 | |
Kelvin Hopkins when he was promoted
to the Shadow Cabinet. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:08 | |
And there is a reminder that normal
political life goes on, | 0:03:08 | 0:03:10 | |
with reports that the Cabinet has
agreed to put housing at the heart | 0:03:10 | 0:03:13 | |
of Philip Hammond's upcoming Budget. | 0:03:13 | 0:03:15 | |
Well, let's hear from
Home Secretary Amber Rudd now - | 0:03:15 | 0:03:17 | |
she was on the Andrew Marr Show
earlier talking about the claims | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
against her Cabinet colleague Damian
Green. | 0:03:20 | 0:03:22 | |
Absolutely not. I think it is
something that will take place in | 0:03:22 | 0:03:29 | |
terms of clearing out Westminster of
that sort of behaviour, and I think | 0:03:29 | 0:03:34 | |
that Westminster afterwards,
including the Government, will be | 0:03:34 | 0:03:36 | |
better for it. When we are confident
that men and women can work any | 0:03:36 | 0:03:45 | |
respectful environment and people on
the receiving end of abuse of power | 0:03:45 | 0:03:47 | |
can come forward. That will be a
positive thing. | 0:03:47 | 0:03:54 | |
Let's see what our panel make of
this fairly explosive week. Good | 0:03:54 | 0:03:58 | |
morning to all of you. Starting with
you, Steve. Not a party political | 0:03:58 | 0:04:05 | |
issue but the Tories are in
Government. How much harder for them | 0:04:05 | 0:04:08 | |
is it an Labour? Always harder when
you are in Government because it | 0:04:08 | 0:04:13 | |
makes governing almost impossible.
And the wider context is a Prime | 0:04:13 | 0:04:16 | |
Minister who lost her overall
majority a few months ago and | 0:04:16 | 0:04:19 | |
actually that is the context of
everything. When you are having to | 0:04:19 | 0:04:23 | |
deal with the scandal of such
unpredictability, where the | 0:04:23 | 0:04:25 | |
terms are so imprecise, it is a
"lunge", a resignation issue, to use | 0:04:25 | 0:04:37 | |
that term, and nightmare. I don't
think it is fatal. Scandals rarely | 0:04:37 | 0:04:41 | |
bring down governments, but it makes
governing for Theresa May a form of | 0:04:41 | 0:04:47 | |
political health. Isabel Oakeshott,
Damian Green has denied all | 0:04:47 | 0:04:50 | |
allegations made against him, but
there are more this morning. He is | 0:04:50 | 0:04:53 | |
being investigated by the Cabinet
Office at the moment. If Theresa May | 0:04:53 | 0:04:59 | |
were to effectively lose her Deputy
Prime Minister, has serious without | 0:04:59 | 0:05:02 | |
the? I think very serious indeed. I
think it is very significant and | 0:05:02 | 0:05:07 | |
strange he was not defended in the
Home Secretary Amber Rudd in that | 0:05:07 | 0:05:11 | |
clip we saw today, she didn't say I
am certain he will survive, and I am | 0:05:11 | 0:05:15 | |
beginning to feel that Damian may
not survive this. We don't know | 0:05:15 | 0:05:19 | |
whether it is the last of the
allegations that may come out in | 0:05:19 | 0:05:23 | |
relation to him. It seems to me that
the allegations were previously of a | 0:05:23 | 0:05:27 | |
rather minor order, but this seems
to have escalated. And I think one | 0:05:27 | 0:05:33 | |
of the big problems for Theresa May,
and there are the many at the | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
moment, for months we have been
saying that this Government has no | 0:05:36 | 0:05:42 | |
bandwidth to do anything except
Brexit and right now she can't even | 0:05:42 | 0:05:45 | |
do Brexit. What is the point of it
all? It is important to make clear | 0:05:45 | 0:05:49 | |
not only that Damian Green denies
all of these allegations, but the | 0:05:49 | 0:05:53 | |
computer mentioned was in a shared
office so there is no reason it | 0:05:53 | 0:05:59 | |
would definitely be his
# No guarantee it would definitely | 0:05:59 | 0:06:03 | |
be his. But we have had two MPs on
television this morning, Anna | 0:06:03 | 0:06:15 | |
Soubry, saying he should stand down.
There is an awful lot going on here. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:20 | |
It is not just a pretty awful sexual
harassment scandal. There are also | 0:06:20 | 0:06:26 | |
without a doubt MPs, police
officers, going about settling | 0:06:26 | 0:06:30 | |
scores. For me I have to say for our
pretty discredited police officer | 0:06:30 | 0:06:34 | |
Bob Quick, to make accusations
against serving Cabinet minister, to | 0:06:34 | 0:06:38 | |
suggest he should go for extreme
pornography on computers he may or | 0:06:38 | 0:06:46 | |
may not have known, it may be
extremely distasteful but it is | 0:06:46 | 0:06:49 | |
alarming for democracy to have
ex-police officers like this coming | 0:06:49 | 0:06:52 | |
in and trying to play with
democracy. Some politicians are also | 0:06:52 | 0:06:56 | |
meeting claims, some for the right
reasons to get the allegations out | 0:06:56 | 0:06:59 | |
there and so on but others for their
own agendas and all of this puts the | 0:06:59 | 0:07:02 | |
Prime Minister in an unbelievably
hard situation. I agree with Steve | 0:07:02 | 0:07:06 | |
and Isabel, she desperately needs
two show leadership in all this, but | 0:07:06 | 0:07:10 | |
every way she could turn there are
incredible downfalls, people blaming | 0:07:10 | 0:07:13 | |
her for trying to get to the bottom
of all this. It is very people who | 0:07:13 | 0:07:17 | |
she is relying on for her
leadership, the very Tory MPs the | 0:07:17 | 0:07:22 | |
support she can't lose. It is not
just the Tory party and of course | 0:07:22 | 0:07:25 | |
Jeremy Corbyn will be making a
speech later today where this will | 0:07:25 | 0:07:28 | |
inevitably and there are accusations
about how the senior leadership in | 0:07:28 | 0:07:32 | |
the Labour Party have handled this.
What about that situation? Yes, but | 0:07:32 | 0:07:38 | |
the Government is much harder
because you are meant to be doing | 0:07:38 | 0:07:40 | |
10,000 other things at the same
time. This is about a deregulated | 0:07:40 | 0:07:44 | |
work environment. For all those who
say, I hate the way Britain is too | 0:07:44 | 0:07:48 | |
regulated, this is what happens in a
deregulated work environment. The | 0:07:48 | 0:07:50 | |
House of Commons has no HR or
whatever, MPs, advisors, so, MPs | 0:07:50 | 0:08:00 | |
actually don't have much power but
they do have power over who the | 0:08:00 | 0:08:03 | |
point and how to treat them. I think
this is the way forward in terms of | 0:08:03 | 0:08:07 | |
the practical outcome, but it is
across the political spectrum. But | 0:08:07 | 0:08:10 | |
it is unclear what it will be. Can
the party sort this out? I'm not | 0:08:10 | 0:08:16 | |
sure I entirely agree, Steve, you
cannot regulate all human | 0:08:16 | 0:08:19 | |
interaction and a lot of these
stories have been about interactions | 0:08:19 | 0:08:23 | |
between politicians and journalists
alike, who have gone out for lunch, | 0:08:23 | 0:08:28 | |
chosen to drink, presumably to
create an informal atmosphere, and | 0:08:28 | 0:08:33 | |
at what point is a step towards
somebody to say goodbye, a peck on | 0:08:33 | 0:08:38 | |
the cheek or whatever, a lunge? You
can't regulate that sort of thing. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:43 | |
Throughout the programme will come
back to some of these things and how | 0:08:43 | 0:08:48 | |
they might be regulated. | 0:08:48 | 0:08:49 | |
Now, the Home Secretary has
also today been talking | 0:08:49 | 0:08:52 | |
about what she calls the "moral
duty" of social media companies | 0:08:52 | 0:08:54 | |
to stop child sexual exploitation,
ahead of a meeting with her US | 0:08:54 | 0:08:57 | |
counterparts this week. | 0:08:57 | 0:08:58 | |
We're joined now by the Home Office
minister Sarah Newton - | 0:08:58 | 0:09:01 | |
she's in our Truro studio. | 0:09:01 | 0:09:03 | |
Thanks very much for coming in to
speak the first night. I want to | 0:09:03 | 0:09:06 | |
talk to you about the Government's
efforts to tackle child pornography, | 0:09:06 | 0:09:09 | |
but let's pick up on some of the
sexual harassment issues at | 0:09:09 | 0:09:13 | |
Westminster first. Two of your
parliamentary colleagues this | 0:09:13 | 0:09:16 | |
morning saying they think the first
Secretary of State Damian Green | 0:09:16 | 0:09:19 | |
should step down whilst being
investigated. Do you agree? Look, he | 0:09:19 | 0:09:26 | |
has vigorously denied these
accusations, and the Cabinet Office | 0:09:26 | 0:09:32 | |
is investigating these accusations,
so we do have processes for when | 0:09:32 | 0:09:37 | |
ministers have these accusations
made against them so they are | 0:09:37 | 0:09:39 | |
properly investigated. And that is
what is going on at the moment. Is | 0:09:39 | 0:09:44 | |
that process people can be confident
in? He is effectively being | 0:09:44 | 0:09:49 | |
investigated by Jeremy Heywood, one
of his colleagues. This is a tried | 0:09:49 | 0:09:55 | |
and tested process that has stood
the test of time, and it is | 0:09:55 | 0:09:59 | |
important... Has it? Surely what we
are learning is it has not stood the | 0:09:59 | 0:10:03 | |
test of time and that in fact
allegations like this have been | 0:10:03 | 0:10:06 | |
swept under the carpet and ignored
for years and years in Westminster, | 0:10:06 | 0:10:10 | |
exactly what we are learning right
now. I think you are conflating two | 0:10:10 | 0:10:14 | |
things they are, and what we really
do need to do is look at the whole | 0:10:14 | 0:10:18 | |
range of allegations people have
been making, and make sure | 0:10:18 | 0:10:22 | |
Parliament is a safe place for
people to work, a respectful | 0:10:22 | 0:10:26 | |
environment for people who have been
subjected to harassment or bullying | 0:10:26 | 0:10:32 | |
or inappropriate behaviour, so that
they feel confident to come forward | 0:10:32 | 0:10:34 | |
knowing they will be listened to,
that there will be an open and | 0:10:34 | 0:10:38 | |
transparent and fair to everyone
concerned process for getting to the | 0:10:38 | 0:10:41 | |
bottom of it, and that is exactly
what the Prime Minister and the | 0:10:41 | 0:10:45 | |
Leader of the Cows have set out,
Prime Minister's meeting with all | 0:10:45 | 0:10:51 | |
the leaders of the parties tomorrow
to set out a proper process so we | 0:10:51 | 0:10:56 | |
can modernise the work environment
at Westminster -- leader of the | 0:10:56 | 0:11:04 | |
House have set out. You think Damian
Green should remain in the Cabinet | 0:11:04 | 0:11:08 | |
well being investigated? That will
be down to Sir Jeremy Heywood. If he | 0:11:08 | 0:11:13 | |
thinks the misdemeanours have a
basis, that he should stand aside, | 0:11:13 | 0:11:17 | |
that will be the recommendation. I
will not second the inquiry on what | 0:11:17 | 0:11:23 | |
Sir Jeremy Heywood finds. You were
in the Whips' Office yourself for a | 0:11:23 | 0:11:27 | |
year. And much has been said this
week of the whips being in receipt | 0:11:27 | 0:11:31 | |
of a lot of information about bad
behaviour, and instead of reporting | 0:11:31 | 0:11:35 | |
it to authorities they were using it
as ammunition. Was that your | 0:11:35 | 0:11:39 | |
experience? Absolutely not. I was at
the Whips' Office up to 2015 and, | 0:11:39 | 0:11:45 | |
yes, I heard about the rumours of a
black spreadsheet, and I can | 0:11:45 | 0:11:48 | |
certainly say I never saw such a
thing. How I went about my business | 0:11:48 | 0:11:52 | |
as a whip is really twofold. It is
quite a technical job in many ways, | 0:11:52 | 0:11:57 | |
about of the Government through the
House, working with the House | 0:11:57 | 0:12:03 | |
authorities, the opposition. Also...
Did you ever hear rumours of these | 0:12:03 | 0:12:07 | |
people's bad behaviour? Sorry? Did
you ever hear rumours of MPs | 0:12:07 | 0:12:15 | |
misbehaving, sexual harassment,
allegations are that? If anybody had | 0:12:15 | 0:12:18 | |
brought a complaint to me about the
behaviour of one of the MPs who were | 0:12:18 | 0:12:22 | |
in my flock, I would take that
really seriously, but bull-mac, that | 0:12:22 | 0:12:27 | |
didn't happen. You said nobody
brought you a complaint. Did you | 0:12:27 | 0:12:30 | |
hear rumours? -- but no, that didn't
happen. About the members of my | 0:12:30 | 0:12:37 | |
flock? Absolutely not. Is that the
MPs you were specifically in charge | 0:12:37 | 0:12:40 | |
of? I did not have that experience
at all. Let's move on and talk about | 0:12:40 | 0:12:47 | |
the Home Secretary's trip to
Washington this week, where she will | 0:12:47 | 0:12:51 | |
urge tech companies to go further
and faster on online child abuse. We | 0:12:51 | 0:12:54 | |
have heard a lot from this
Government urging these companies to | 0:12:54 | 0:12:58 | |
do something. One specific ideas of
what they could do, do you have a | 0:12:58 | 0:13:02 | |
clear idea of what you are asking
from tech companies? Absolutely | 0:13:02 | 0:13:05 | |
right. As you know, this horrendous
crime of child sexual exploitation | 0:13:05 | 0:13:11 | |
and grooming is constantly evolving
as the opportunities for the | 0:13:11 | 0:13:16 | |
perpetrators arise. They are now
using live streaming, different | 0:13:16 | 0:13:20 | |
sorts of platforms, which are
largely controlled by the big | 0:13:20 | 0:13:24 | |
companies in America. What we really
want them to do is to step up and | 0:13:24 | 0:13:29 | |
use their huge expertise, used the
huge money they have got, to help | 0:13:29 | 0:13:34 | |
find technological solutions to read
their sites and rid the opportunity | 0:13:34 | 0:13:38 | |
of these paedophiles to be able to
groom young people. We need the | 0:13:38 | 0:13:41 | |
politicians in America to exert
pressure, as well as other | 0:13:41 | 0:13:49 | |
companies, because these are global
problems. We are not going to solve | 0:13:49 | 0:13:52 | |
this problem in the UK alone. We
have made a lot of progress, working | 0:13:52 | 0:13:56 | |
with Facebook and other companies as
well, but we really need to keep one | 0:13:56 | 0:14:00 | |
step ahead of the technology, one
step ahead of the perpetrators, who | 0:14:00 | 0:14:05 | |
are using these opportunities to
commit horrendous crimes. | 0:14:05 | 0:14:10 | |
It was back in 2014 Theresa May for
the Internet companies to do more in | 0:14:10 | 0:14:14 | |
terms of child abuse online and we
have not seen significant action, | 0:14:14 | 0:14:18 | |
and it does not appear these kind of
calls from the Government actually | 0:14:18 | 0:14:21 | |
make difference.
Well, at the moment we are seeing | 0:14:21 | 0:14:27 | |
the police being able to make about
400 arrests per month, about 500 | 0:14:27 | 0:14:32 | |
children being safeguarded. The
Government itself is investing a lot | 0:14:32 | 0:14:35 | |
of money in new technology like the
project Arachnid, and making sure | 0:14:35 | 0:14:42 | |
the police have the specialist
resources they need to go | 0:14:42 | 0:14:45 | |
undercover, and absolutely find
these perpetrators and bring them to | 0:14:45 | 0:14:48 | |
justice, but we do need to
constantly have the engagement and | 0:14:48 | 0:14:51 | |
support of the companies themselves
to invest in further technologies to | 0:14:51 | 0:14:55 | |
prevent this from happening. As you
say, we have made progress but we | 0:14:55 | 0:14:59 | |
need to see yet more. Sarah Newton,
thank you very much for speaking to | 0:14:59 | 0:15:03 | |
us today. | 0:15:03 | 0:15:06 | |
Michael Fallon's decision
to resign this week, | 0:15:06 | 0:15:07 | |
saying his past conduct with women
fell short of the standard expected | 0:15:07 | 0:15:12 | |
of the Armed Forces, led
to something of a minor reshuffle. | 0:15:12 | 0:15:15 | |
And the Prime Minister took
Westminster by surprise | 0:15:15 | 0:15:17 | |
when she announced his replacement,
former Chief Whip and relative | 0:15:17 | 0:15:19 | |
newcomer to the ministerial
ranks, Gavin Williamson. | 0:15:19 | 0:15:21 | |
Here he is speaking on the day
of his appointment. | 0:15:21 | 0:15:26 | |
It's an immense privilege to have
been appointed Secretary | 0:15:26 | 0:15:28 | |
of State for Defence,
and what we need to be doing | 0:15:28 | 0:15:31 | |
is continuing to focus
on countering Daesh, | 0:15:31 | 0:15:33 | |
making sure that our national
security is at the forefront | 0:15:33 | 0:15:35 | |
of everything that we do,
and we have some of the world's | 0:15:35 | 0:15:38 | |
greatest armed services,
and it's such a privilege to be able | 0:15:38 | 0:15:40 | |
to work with them. | 0:15:40 | 0:15:47 | |
Gavin Williamson, who you saw there,
arrives at the Ministry of Defence | 0:15:47 | 0:15:49 | |
at a challenging time
for UK defence. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:52 | |
The Government has promised
an above-inflation increase | 0:15:52 | 0:15:53 | |
in spending every year
but the Ministry of Defence | 0:15:53 | 0:15:55 | |
is already committed to finding
£20 billion of savings | 0:15:55 | 0:15:57 | |
over the next ten years. | 0:15:57 | 0:15:59 | |
The Cabinet Office is currently
conducting a security review | 0:15:59 | 0:16:01 | |
which will look at military
capabilities and funding up to 2022, | 0:16:01 | 0:16:04 | |
while there are continuing
reports of shortages | 0:16:04 | 0:16:05 | |
of manpower and equipment. | 0:16:05 | 0:16:10 | |
And if Labour were to win power,
questions persist over | 0:16:10 | 0:16:12 | |
what a Jeremy Corbyn premiership
would mean for defence budget | 0:16:12 | 0:16:15 | |
and the traditional cornerstones
of UK defence policy | 0:16:15 | 0:16:17 | |
like Trident and Nato. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:18 | |
Well we're joined now
by the Shadow Defence | 0:16:18 | 0:16:20 | |
secretary, Nia Griffith. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:23 | |
Well we're joined now
by the Shadow Defence | 0:16:23 | 0:16:25 | |
secretary, Nia Griffith. | 0:16:25 | 0:16:30 | |
Let's talk about defence spending
first. Would Labour commit to the | 0:16:30 | 0:16:35 | |
same thing this Government has which
is an above inflation increase in | 0:16:35 | 0:16:39 | |
spending every year? We've been
absolutely clear about that. First | 0:16:39 | 0:16:43 | |
and foremost we'd meet our
commitment of spending at least 2% | 0:16:43 | 0:16:48 | |
of GDP on defence as is our Nato
commitment and we would match the | 0:16:48 | 0:16:55 | |
Government's year-on-year 0.5%
increase above inflation. This is | 0:16:55 | 0:16:57 | |
really important. Labour's always
had a good strong track record of | 0:16:57 | 0:17:01 | |
spending on defence. Jeremy Corbyn
seems to have a different view. | 0:17:01 | 0:17:05 | |
Speaking at a protest in 2010 he
said Labour wanted to fight all the | 0:17:05 | 0:17:10 | |
cuts except those in the Armed
Forces where we want to see a few | 0:17:10 | 0:17:14 | |
more cuts taking place. He doesn't
seem committed to defence spending? | 0:17:14 | 0:17:18 | |
In the manifesto for this year's
election, 2017, he and John | 0:17:18 | 0:17:23 | |
McDonnell have been absolutely clear
we support the exact words I've been | 0:17:23 | 0:17:26 | |
using now, at least 2% of the spend
of GDP spent on defence. Jeremy | 0:17:26 | 0:17:32 | |
Corbyn's changed his mind on that?
He's been very clear about that and | 0:17:32 | 0:17:37 | |
it was in our manifesto this year.
You criticised the Government on | 0:17:37 | 0:17:42 | |
whether they meet their 2%
commitment on defence. You saying | 0:17:42 | 0:17:47 | |
they were fiddling the figures
because they were including | 0:17:47 | 0:17:50 | |
pensions. You would strip that out
and snake sure there's 2% spending | 0:17:50 | 0:17:56 | |
on defence which doesn't include
pensions? Technically, the | 0:17:56 | 0:17:59 | |
Government would argue you are
allowed to include pensions by the | 0:17:59 | 0:18:01 | |
Nato rules. But we've been very
clear, really, when you're talking | 0:18:01 | 0:18:07 | |
about defence spending it should
mean defence. When you look at the | 0:18:07 | 0:18:11 | |
last year of the Labour Government
we spent 2.5% GDP on defence. We are | 0:18:11 | 0:18:16 | |
very much committed to looking at
what we need in our defence budget | 0:18:16 | 0:18:21 | |
and looking to the problems they
have now where they can't meet the | 0:18:21 | 0:18:26 | |
commitments they've made. You would
sprip pensions out of those figures. | 0:18:26 | 0:18:30 | |
In order to live up to these
commitments you have to find an | 0:18:30 | 0:18:36 | |
extra billion for the defence
budgets because we're not | 0:18:36 | 0:18:40 | |
calculating pensions anymore? John
McDonnell is well aware of what they | 0:18:40 | 0:18:43 | |
are doing. Putting in the conflict
resolution money which Gordon Brown | 0:18:43 | 0:18:48 | |
kept separate. He is well aware of
the figures and the difficulties. We | 0:18:48 | 0:18:53 | |
are certainly very committed to a
defence budget that really does make | 0:18:53 | 0:18:57 | |
a difference. I'm not clear whether
you're telling me it will be 2% 69 | 0:18:57 | 0:19:02 | |
spending, excluding pensions? We
want it to be 2% of GDP as in the | 0:19:02 | 0:19:08 | |
way Labour always calculate it had
up until 2010, not including | 0:19:08 | 0:19:12 | |
pensions. A significant increase in
military spending? We are talking | 0:19:12 | 0:19:16 | |
about making sure the spending we
need is there because, at the | 0:19:16 | 0:19:21 | |
current situation, we have with the
current Government, they are | 0:19:21 | 0:19:24 | |
overstretched. Even the very caution
National Audit Office says they are | 0:19:24 | 0:19:29 | |
at immense risk of not being able to
meet the expenditure commitment the | 0:19:29 | 0:19:35 | |
they have made. Others talk about a
black hole. You mentioned it that | 0:19:35 | 0:19:40 | |
£20 billion. There is a real issue
we have to address. To you know what | 0:19:40 | 0:19:47 | |
it will cost, how muchedingsal funds
will have to be found? We have to | 0:19:47 | 0:19:51 | |
rook at what are the needs at the
time as well as the facts we want to | 0:19:51 | 0:19:57 | |
make that 2% commitment not
including things which have just | 0:19:57 | 0:20:01 | |
been brushed in now by the
Conservative Government. Let's move | 0:20:01 | 0:20:04 | |
on to a different aspect of defence.
There is a treaty banning nuclear | 0:20:04 | 0:20:11 | |
weapons opened at the UN for
signatories. 122 countries have | 0:20:11 | 0:20:14 | |
already signed it. Would an incoming
Labour Government sign that treaty? | 0:20:14 | 0:20:20 | |
The important point here is there
was an Is inned opportunity for | 0:20:20 | 0:20:23 | |
there to be observers from the UK.
There should have been at that | 0:20:23 | 0:20:28 | |
treaty talks. That doesn't change
the calculation whether or not an | 0:20:28 | 0:20:33 | |
incoming Labour Government would
sign that treaty? We are committed | 0:20:33 | 0:20:40 | |
to a strong multi-lateral disarming
programme. That's what we've seen | 0:20:40 | 0:20:45 | |
missing. This is a multilateral
approach to try to get rid of | 0:20:45 | 0:20:48 | |
nuclear weapons. What you say you
want. Would a Labour Government sign | 0:20:48 | 0:20:53 | |
that treaty? You we have to look at
how you go about things. We need toe | 0:20:53 | 0:20:57 | |
somebody clear we want to
de-escalate tensions across the | 0:20:57 | 0:21:01 | |
world. Work with other nuclear
partners to help stop the | 0:21:01 | 0:21:06 | |
proliferation of nuclear weapons. We
want to work with those countries | 0:21:06 | 0:21:10 | |
who feel very strongly about the
treaty so we can work together. We | 0:21:10 | 0:21:15 | |
have to do that in a multilateral
framework. This is a multi-lateral | 0:21:15 | 0:21:21 | |
disarmament framework. Under the
auspice Is of the UN disto see how | 0:21:21 | 0:21:26 | |
else it could be organised. This is
a great opportunity for you, who | 0:21:26 | 0:21:29 | |
have been a lifelong campaigner for
disarmament.ment Labour Government | 0:21:29 | 0:21:34 | |
will be the first nuclear power to
do so, sign it and lead the way. We | 0:21:34 | 0:21:40 | |
need to use our position to be
responsible and call for responsible | 0:21:40 | 0:21:45 | |
multi-lateral disarmamentment there
was progress made on this in the | 0:21:45 | 0:21:48 | |
eighties and nineties with
considerable amount of are heads put | 0:21:48 | 0:21:51 | |
to one side and destroyed. We need
to get back on the front foot there. | 0:21:51 | 0:21:55 | |
I don't see any presence by the UK
Government at the moment on that | 0:21:55 | 0:21:58 | |
aagain da. It is not helpful for the
nukes leer nations to be separated | 0:21:58 | 0:22:03 | |
from the non-nuclear nation in the
these debates. That's why I don't | 0:22:03 | 0:22:09 | |
understand why you're not taking the
opportunity to say a Labour | 0:22:09 | 0:22:13 | |
Government would Take The Stand. We
should wok together and we should | 0:22:13 | 0:22:17 | |
use our position as a nuclear power
to work for a multilateral | 0:22:17 | 0:22:22 | |
disarmament programme. You were very
clear in your manifesto that the | 0:22:22 | 0:22:26 | |
Labour Party would keep Trident for
the meantime. Abs will yously. We | 0:22:26 | 0:22:30 | |
know throughout his life, Jeremy
Corbyn's long wanted to get rid of | 0:22:30 | 0:22:33 | |
it. He signed up to the manifesto
saying Trident would stay. Has he | 0:22:33 | 0:22:40 | |
changed his minds? The important
thing is that was a manifesto | 0:22:40 | 0:22:45 | |
Jeremy, John McDonnell's agreed to.
We stood on it in 2017 because that | 0:22:45 | 0:22:49 | |
is the Labour Party position.
Absolutely. I'm asking if the Labour | 0:22:49 | 0:22:54 | |
Leader really believes in that
position? He believes in democracy | 0:22:54 | 0:22:57 | |
in the party. That is the Labour
Party position. I don't see that | 0:22:57 | 0:23:00 | |
position changing at all. He has
said very clearly that he accepts | 0:23:00 | 0:23:04 | |
that is our Labour Party position.
And that is the manifesto we've | 0:23:04 | 0:23:08 | |
stood on and will continue to stand
on. I'll need to ask questions about | 0:23:08 | 0:23:13 | |
sexual harassment in Westminster. It
is as much as inissue for the Labour | 0:23:13 | 0:23:18 | |
Party as the Conservative. It was
not clear listening to Dawn Butler, | 0:23:18 | 0:23:22 | |
your colleague on The Andrew Marr
Show this morning, she was asked | 0:23:22 | 0:23:25 | |
whether or not the leadership knew
about allegations by Kelvin Hopkins. | 0:23:25 | 0:23:29 | |
Do you know? I absolutely do not
know at this moment in time. That's | 0:23:29 | 0:23:34 | |
why there has to be an
investigation. It is extremely | 0:23:34 | 0:23:36 | |
important to find out what the
allegations were, exactly what | 0:23:36 | 0:23:41 | |
happened, who was told and who told
what to whom. Then we will be in a | 0:23:41 | 0:23:46 | |
position to see what the situation
is. In the meantime, Kelvin Hopkins | 0:23:46 | 0:23:50 | |
has been suspended which is the
cricket thing to do. Rosie Winterton | 0:23:50 | 0:23:57 | |
has been outspoken about what she
let the leadership know. If it is | 0:23:57 | 0:24:02 | |
the case the leadership did know
about these allegations should he | 0:24:02 | 0:24:05 | |
have been put into the Shadow
Cabinet? The real question is who | 0:24:05 | 0:24:09 | |
did know what when. But what I'm
asking you is... I am anot going to | 0:24:09 | 0:24:15 | |
speculate whether there was an if or
whatever. We need to know how that | 0:24:15 | 0:24:20 | |
information was transmitted. Was it
put in writing. What it made clear, | 0:24:20 | 0:24:24 | |
who was told what, when. Until we
have a full investigation it would | 0:24:24 | 0:24:28 | |
be inappropriate to comment. What is
absolute lie clear, we need to get | 0:24:28 | 0:24:32 | |
this right for the future. We must
have proper procedures so we deal | 0:24:32 | 0:24:36 | |
with incidents as and when they
occur. And we deal with them | 0:24:36 | 0:24:41 | |
prepperly in a way which gets to the
bottom of the issue and deals with | 0:24:41 | 0:24:44 | |
it properly. Why should anyone have
confidence the Labour Party will | 0:24:44 | 0:24:49 | |
treat issues that seriously when,
firstly there's a question whether | 0:24:49 | 0:24:53 | |
they knew about Kelvin hop kips and
others have been dissuaded from | 0:24:53 | 0:24:58 | |
making complaints. Knots just Bex
Bailey. Monica Lennon said when she | 0:24:58 | 0:25:03 | |
was harassed at a party senior
figures in the Labour Party told her | 0:25:03 | 0:25:07 | |
it was her own fault. It seems as if
there hasn't been a culture within | 0:25:07 | 0:25:14 | |
Labour to make a complaint. That's
why we're having a thorough review | 0:25:14 | 0:25:20 | |
of procedures. We brought in new
procedures in July. We need to | 0:25:20 | 0:25:24 | |
ensure there's a proper helpline
available. We are appointing an | 0:25:24 | 0:25:30 | |
independent organisation which will
deal with allegations first-hand so | 0:25:30 | 0:25:32 | |
nobody has to go to somebody they
think might know other people, be | 0:25:32 | 0:25:36 | |
friends with other people. They can
go somewhere completely confidential | 0:25:36 | 0:25:41 | |
and private. These are often things
you can't want to tell your cross | 0:25:41 | 0:25:46 | |
friends about. We will appoint that
organisation and make sure people | 0:25:46 | 0:25:50 | |
can go there and access to it is
made widely known. It is very, very | 0:25:50 | 0:25:55 | |
important when people come into a
job, they know if anything does | 0:25:55 | 0:25:58 | |
happen, they will be able to
complain. Whether they are ordinary | 0:25:58 | 0:26:02 | |
party members or working in
Westminster. Thank you for talking | 0:26:02 | 0:26:08 | |
to us | 0:26:08 | 0:26:08 | |
For Thank you for talking to us some | 0:26:08 | 0:26:10 | |
on the left of politics, | 0:26:10 | 0:26:12 | |
this weekend wasn't just a chance | 0:26:12 | 0:26:14 | |
to mark the anniversary
of the failed gunpowder | 0:26:14 | 0:26:16 | |
plot here in Britain,
but also events in Russia 100 years | 0:26:16 | 0:26:18 | |
ago, when Bolshevik revolutionaries
led by Lenin seized power | 0:26:18 | 0:26:21 | |
and ushered in seven
decades of Communist rule. | 0:26:21 | 0:26:23 | |
For critics, that's something
to regret, not celebrate. | 0:26:23 | 0:26:25 | |
Elizabeth Glinka went to one event
in London to find out more. | 0:26:25 | 0:26:26 | |
The 7th November 1917. | 0:26:31 | 0:26:33 | |
Red Guards under the leadership
of Vladimir Lenin begin to occupy | 0:26:33 | 0:26:37 | |
Government buildings in Petrograd. | 0:26:37 | 0:26:42 | |
This uprising, known
popularly as Red October | 0:26:42 | 0:26:44 | |
because of the difference
in the Gregorian calendar, | 0:26:44 | 0:26:47 | |
was, in fact, a coup. | 0:26:47 | 0:26:50 | |
The winds of socialist change had
been blowing for some time. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:54 | |
The Tsars had resisted reform
and millions toiled in a state | 0:26:54 | 0:26:59 | |
of almost medieval surfdom. | 0:26:59 | 0:27:01 | |
Then war. | 0:27:01 | 0:27:05 | |
Nearly two million
Russians would die. | 0:27:05 | 0:27:10 | |
The revolution had really begun nine
months earlier in February 1917. | 0:27:10 | 0:27:15 | |
The world's first socialist
republic was declared. | 0:27:15 | 0:27:21 | |
October, well that
was the Bolsheviks | 0:27:21 | 0:27:24 | |
asserting their authority. | 0:27:24 | 0:27:28 | |
A hundred years on, as this
event at the TUC shows, | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
there's still plenty of people
who want to remember and even | 0:27:33 | 0:27:36 | |
celebrate those momentous events. | 0:27:36 | 0:27:40 | |
Mainly as an event in history, | 0:27:40 | 0:27:42 | |
this is an example of historical
development in action, | 0:27:42 | 0:27:45 | |
the ability of people to club
together and be able to affect | 0:27:45 | 0:27:49 | |
the discourse of history. | 0:27:49 | 0:27:50 | |
It was people's first attempt at
trying to build socialism. | 0:27:50 | 0:27:53 | |
Although there were many terrible
things that happened, | 0:27:53 | 0:27:56 | |
I think we have to try
and draw from experience. | 0:27:56 | 0:27:58 | |
Jeremy Corbyn's close friend
and adviser, Andrew Murray, | 0:27:58 | 0:28:01 | |
was chairing the opening session. | 0:28:01 | 0:28:04 | |
He didn't want to talk to us
but we did manage to speak | 0:28:04 | 0:28:07 | |
to the daughter of one of the most
famous Communists of all time. | 0:28:07 | 0:28:13 | |
TRANSLATION: It's an historic moment | 0:28:13 | 0:28:16 | |
which opened up possibilities
for further changes | 0:28:16 | 0:28:19 | |
and allowed other people
to strive for a different world. | 0:28:19 | 0:28:21 | |
A world, which it seems,
some are still keen to push for. | 0:28:21 | 0:28:25 | |
We're growing, so there is obviously
a positive reflection. | 0:28:25 | 0:28:27 | |
There is a lot of negative
propaganda that comes | 0:28:27 | 0:28:29 | |
from the Cold War period. | 0:28:29 | 0:28:31 | |
It is harder to talk
to older people maybe. | 0:28:31 | 0:28:33 | |
But younger people
are quite receptive. | 0:28:33 | 0:28:35 | |
The events and discussions taking
place here today cover a whole range | 0:28:35 | 0:28:38 | |
of topics from women's
rights to the Third World | 0:28:38 | 0:28:41 | |
and the impact on British socialism. | 0:28:41 | 0:28:44 | |
But there's much less discussion
of the Russian Civil War, | 0:28:44 | 0:28:48 | |
the purges and the political
repression that would come later. | 0:28:48 | 0:28:52 | |
We wanted to have this conference | 0:28:52 | 0:28:54 | |
because we wanted to show it
in a positive light. | 0:28:54 | 0:28:57 | |
Whatever one's view of what happened
to the Soviet Union subsequently | 0:28:57 | 0:29:01 | |
the fact is it is important
to understand the process | 0:29:01 | 0:29:05 | |
of revolutionary change
for its own sake. | 0:29:05 | 0:29:08 | |
Red October would usher
in 70 years of communism. | 0:29:09 | 0:29:13 | |
The proletarite would rise,
find respect and security. | 0:29:13 | 0:29:16 | |
But the suppression of the peoples
of Eastern Europe, the forced labour | 0:29:16 | 0:29:20 | |
camps and the murder of hundreds
of thousands, if not millions | 0:29:20 | 0:29:24 | |
of people, make it difficult
for many to see that revolution | 0:29:24 | 0:29:28 | |
as something to celebrate. | 0:29:28 | 0:29:32 | |
That was Elizabeth Glinka reporting. | 0:29:33 | 0:29:35 | |
So is the centenary
of the Russian Revolution a cause | 0:29:35 | 0:29:37 | |
for celebration, or regret? | 0:29:37 | 0:29:39 | |
Well, to discuss this I'm
joined by former Labour | 0:29:39 | 0:29:41 | |
and Respect MP George Galloway,
and the journalist Peter Hitchens. | 0:29:41 | 0:29:47 | |
Good morning. Let me start with you
George Galloway. Is the October | 0:29:47 | 0:29:52 | |
revolution a cause for celebration?
With the, if not for the October | 0:29:52 | 0:29:56 | |
revolution, we'd been conducting
this interview in German. Though the | 0:29:56 | 0:30:00 | |
truth is this interview wouldn't be
taking place and we probably | 0:30:00 | 0:30:03 | |
wouldn't be alive for a variety of
reasons. The Soviet Union broke the | 0:30:03 | 0:30:11 | |
back of Hitler, as Mr Churchill
often owe pined in Parliament and | 0:30:11 | 0:30:14 | |
elsewhere. If not for the Soviet
Union, Hitler would have ruled. And | 0:30:14 | 0:30:22 | |
his successorsness, perhaps until
now, from Vladivostok all the way to | 0:30:22 | 0:30:27 | |
Portugal. You say we wouldn't be
able to have this discussion. In the | 0:30:27 | 0:30:31 | |
former Soviet Union we couldn't have
this office either? That's also | 0:30:31 | 0:30:34 | |
true. But even the... George will be
able to say, that of course. Even | 0:30:34 | 0:30:42 | |
the sun has spots on its face as
they used to say in the Soviet | 0:30:42 | 0:30:46 | |
Union. There is no doubt tremendous
abrasions, big crimes, a lot of | 0:30:46 | 0:30:55 | |
suffering but, if not for the
transformation, then the Soviet | 0:30:55 | 0:31:05 | |
Union, Russia's GDP increased from
1930 to 190 and the Nazi occupation. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:12 | |
And the strength that defeated
Hitlerism would not have been there. | 0:31:12 | 0:31:19 | |
Peter Hitchens, does it offend you
there are people celebrating 100 | 0:31:19 | 0:31:22 | |
years since the Russian Revolution?
Offend? No, but in the Soviet Union, | 0:31:22 | 0:31:28 | |
in which I lived, you would not have
been able to say it was set up by a | 0:31:28 | 0:31:33 | |
cynical bitch, almost bloodless, but
engineered by the German Imperial | 0:31:33 | 0:31:35 | |
Government using -- a cynical
putsch, almost bloodless. That this | 0:31:35 | 0:31:52 | |
was the inauguration of an immensely
long period of repression, | 0:31:52 | 0:31:58 | |
brutality, secret police,
concentration camps and lies, which | 0:31:58 | 0:32:02 | |
I am likely to have seen come to an
end in my lifetime, and I cannot see | 0:32:02 | 0:32:06 | |
why anybody looking at that
disastrous country where so much | 0:32:06 | 0:32:09 | |
misery was needlessly imposed on so
many people for so long could | 0:32:09 | 0:32:12 | |
possibly celebrate the beginning of
it, which was completely avoidable, | 0:32:12 | 0:32:15 | |
and as I say was truly the result of
the cynical foreign policy and | 0:32:15 | 0:32:21 | |
intelligence operations of the
Imperial German Government is trying | 0:32:21 | 0:32:23 | |
to save it skin... But everyone
including George Galloway | 0:32:23 | 0:32:27 | |
acknowledges the tyranny and terror
that followed. He doesn't. He gives | 0:32:27 | 0:32:32 | |
statistics about GDP but fails to
mention the people murdered in | 0:32:32 | 0:32:35 | |
labour | 0:32:35 | 0:32:42 | |
camp... He was of course formerly a
Trotskyite and sung the praises of | 0:32:42 | 0:32:48 | |
Lenin, which I have not done and
neither have I done today. I have | 0:32:48 | 0:32:52 | |
never been a Communist, unlike Peter
Hitchens, but I do acknowledge and | 0:32:52 | 0:32:56 | |
celebrate that an entirely different
world opened up as a result of the | 0:32:56 | 0:33:01 | |
events in October 19 17. China, you
have just seen their party congress, | 0:33:01 | 0:33:05 | |
decorated with the iconography of
the Bolshevik Revolution, and China | 0:33:05 | 0:33:10 | |
is the most powerful, or soon will
be the most powerful country on the | 0:33:10 | 0:33:13 | |
earth. With one of the most
repressive government? I don't think | 0:33:13 | 0:33:18 | |
that is true. There is repression in
China, but... Enormous repression in | 0:33:18 | 0:33:24 | |
China! How can you possibly argue
there is an? China has taken more | 0:33:24 | 0:33:28 | |
people out of poverty in the last 30
years than any country, resume, | 0:33:28 | 0:33:33 | |
system, ever has -- how can you
possibly argue there is not? All | 0:33:33 | 0:33:38 | |
despots always argue, trying to
distract your attention from the | 0:33:38 | 0:33:42 | |
mountains of skulls behind them,
their supposed economic success, | 0:33:42 | 0:33:45 | |
which generally does not turn out to
be as great as claimed. The Soviet | 0:33:45 | 0:33:49 | |
Union was an enormous pile of rust
by the time I lived there and was a | 0:33:49 | 0:33:54 | |
complete catastrophe. Yes, that is
why it fell down. But we are talking | 0:33:54 | 0:33:58 | |
about the Revolution 100 years ago.
Is it possible to separate the two | 0:33:58 | 0:34:04 | |
events? A popular overthrowing of a
government is perhaps different from | 0:34:04 | 0:34:07 | |
the tyranny and terror that
followed. It was not a popular | 0:34:07 | 0:34:12 | |
overthrow. You sure this Eisenstein
propaganda as if it were fact. What | 0:34:12 | 0:34:16 | |
we see was a film made afterwards.
What actually happened was a putsch | 0:34:16 | 0:34:21 | |
in the middle of the night in which
hardly anybody... Nobody has even | 0:34:21 | 0:34:30 | |
mentioned... That German connection,
a rather more important... Nobody | 0:34:30 | 0:34:37 | |
has even mentioned during this year
until now that there was a Russian | 0:34:37 | 0:34:39 | |
Revolution. There were two. The
first one was a genuine uprising, | 0:34:39 | 0:34:45 | |
overthrowing the old regime, and I
think we can all be glad of it. The | 0:34:45 | 0:34:48 | |
second one was a cynical for --
foreign financed putsch and it does | 0:34:48 | 0:34:55 | |
not deserve to be spoken out. Is
that true, and Menshevik revolution | 0:34:55 | 0:34:58 | |
would have done better than a
Bolshevik one? It is not my business | 0:34:58 | 0:35:04 | |
and entirely counterfactual fiction,
if I may... Unlike how you open this | 0:35:04 | 0:35:10 | |
discussion. That is the most
important thing. If not for the | 0:35:10 | 0:35:14 | |
Soviet Union, we wouldn't be here.
Hetmyer might still, and most of the | 0:35:14 | 0:35:21 | |
world, with its allies -- Adolph
Hitler might have won and they make, | 0:35:21 | 0:35:26 | |
and most of the world... The effect
of Bolshevism and coming is on | 0:35:26 | 0:35:31 | |
Europe was colossal. Let's bring it
all a little bit more up-to-date. | 0:35:31 | 0:35:34 | |
You were saying earlier you have
never been a Leninist, although | 0:35:34 | 0:35:40 | |
Peter Hitchens confesses he was at
one time. Absolutely was a | 0:35:40 | 0:35:46 | |
Trotskyist, and now nor the complete
folly of that particular political | 0:35:46 | 0:35:53 | |
disposition. John McDonnell in the
Labour Party openly says he is a | 0:35:53 | 0:35:57 | |
Trotskyist, a Leninist, is that a
problem for the Labour Party? I | 0:35:57 | 0:36:02 | |
would have thought, arts would be
more respected now than he has been | 0:36:02 | 0:36:05 | |
for quite some time as capitalism is
collapsing around our ears. From | 0:36:05 | 0:36:11 | |
2008 the Economist itself, the bible
of capitalism, began to resurrect | 0:36:11 | 0:36:17 | |
Marxist economics and analysis, so I
really don't think it is. Jeremy | 0:36:17 | 0:36:22 | |
Corbyn is not a Marxist. It only
took them four years, 54... It is | 0:36:22 | 0:36:31 | |
not that. I think we are moving into
an era where Governments like the | 0:36:31 | 0:36:39 | |
Chinese Government are making plans,
and are succeeding in implementing | 0:36:39 | 0:36:43 | |
them, and thus transforming their
position. China in 1949, and I don't | 0:36:43 | 0:36:49 | |
need to tell you, was just about the
most backward place you could | 0:36:49 | 0:36:52 | |
possibly imagine. And from 1949 to
now it has sold transforms that it | 0:36:52 | 0:36:59 | |
is the world's biggest economy... We
are in danger of getting sidetracked | 0:36:59 | 0:37:07 | |
by China here. I have to put this
point in. If China was backward in | 0:37:07 | 0:37:12 | |
1949 it was far more backward by the
time Mao Zedong finished his great | 0:37:12 | 0:37:16 | |
leap forward and starved millions of
people to death in the period of | 0:37:16 | 0:37:19 | |
economic lunacy. You just don't
notice... What George was saying | 0:37:19 | 0:37:25 | |
they are, and a sense certainly
amongst younger voters in this | 0:37:25 | 0:37:29 | |
country and others, where they are
turning against capitalism, they | 0:37:29 | 0:37:31 | |
don't think it has worked or
delivered for them, that this kind | 0:37:31 | 0:37:35 | |
of Marxist Leninist philosophy is
becoming more popular? Let's hope | 0:37:35 | 0:37:39 | |
not. The fact the current system is
failing does not seem to recommend | 0:37:39 | 0:37:43 | |
the Soviet system, which is
demonstrably a failure, and even its | 0:37:43 | 0:37:48 | |
own leaders admitted it failed and
that is why they tried to reform it | 0:37:48 | 0:37:52 | |
in the period I was there and why it
collapsed. Whatever you might want | 0:37:52 | 0:37:55 | |
to conclude from examining our
position, the Soviet alternative is | 0:37:55 | 0:37:58 | |
not the thing you want the dues.
This was a long period of disaster, | 0:37:58 | 0:38:01 | |
and I remember at the end of it
watching in Moscow said a film which | 0:38:01 | 0:38:06 | |
has never been shown here, and the
title means approximately we can't | 0:38:06 | 0:38:12 | |
go on living like this, and for the
first time, the politburo told the | 0:38:12 | 0:38:18 | |
truth about what life was like in
the dreadful place and everyone in | 0:38:18 | 0:38:20 | |
that cinema was weeping because
finally they saw the truth being | 0:38:20 | 0:38:23 | |
told about the dreadful
anti-civilisation in which they had | 0:38:23 | 0:38:26 | |
been taught to live for so long. The
idea we should celebrate it revive | 0:38:26 | 0:38:30 | |
it seems to me to be verging on the
obscene. George, one interesting | 0:38:30 | 0:38:34 | |
question about this of course,
whilst there are events going on in | 0:38:34 | 0:38:39 | |
London and across the UK to mark
this centenary, it is not being | 0:38:39 | 0:38:43 | |
celebrated in Russia. I was in
Russia a couple of weeks ago. There | 0:38:43 | 0:38:46 | |
is a big debate about whether it
ought to be, and many people are | 0:38:46 | 0:38:51 | |
celebrating it... Vladimir Putin is
not. He would want to ignore it. But | 0:38:51 | 0:38:55 | |
the Communist Party is the second
biggest party in Russia. And it is | 0:38:55 | 0:39:00 | |
the ruling party in China, which,
with respect, is not a separate | 0:39:00 | 0:39:06 | |
thing, because China is continuing
the Russian Revolution and doing | 0:39:06 | 0:39:08 | |
rather better at it than the
Russians did, but there are many | 0:39:08 | 0:39:13 | |
people, particularly older, that is
true, who think that the era of the | 0:39:13 | 0:39:17 | |
Soviet Union was better than the
very cold period of capitalism that | 0:39:17 | 0:39:23 | |
succeeded it. So half the world
followed for a time the red flag, | 0:39:23 | 0:39:30 | |
the red banner of Leninism. No one
will do so again. Leninism of the | 0:39:30 | 0:39:37 | |
kind that Peter used to proselytise
is certainly not coming back, but | 0:39:37 | 0:39:41 | |
Marxism is going to live on. Let's
hope not. Thank you both, gentlemen, | 0:39:41 | 0:39:47 | |
for coming on to speak about that. | 0:39:47 | 0:39:49 | |
It's coming up to 11.40am. | 0:39:49 | 0:39:50 | |
You're watching the Sunday Politics. | 0:39:50 | 0:39:51 | |
Coming up on the programme: | 0:39:51 | 0:39:54 | |
We've taken the moodbox to where
else but bonfire night celebrations. | 0:39:54 | 0:39:57 | |
We've taken the moodbox to where
else but bonfire night celebrations? | 0:39:57 | 0:40:00 | |
It wasn't just Westminster
that had the fireworks this week. | 0:40:00 | 0:40:02 | |
We're asking people in Guildford
in Surrey, | 0:40:02 | 0:40:04 | |
does Theresa May have control
of her Government and her party? | 0:40:04 | 0:40:05 | |
Hello and welcome to Sunday politics
east. Later in the programme, fears | 0:40:16 | 0:40:21 | |
grow over bringing our crops in from
the fields in the future. We have | 0:40:21 | 0:40:27 | |
had double the number of early
leavers, double the number of people | 0:40:27 | 0:40:31 | |
who we have offered jobs to and not
showing up. Suspended funds, an | 0:40:31 | 0:40:38 | |
investigation, a report pending. The
sorry state of a local enterprise | 0:40:38 | 0:40:41 | |
partnership. | 0:40:41 | 0:40:51 | |
Welcome, my guests this morning. It
has been a difficult week in | 0:40:54 | 0:41:00 | |
Westminster with claims of sexual
harassment. The Defence Secretary | 0:41:00 | 0:41:05 | |
has resigned and Kelvin Hopkins has
been suspended from the Labour Party | 0:41:05 | 0:41:09 | |
while an investigation takes place
after allegations were made against | 0:41:09 | 0:41:13 | |
him. What is it like that
Westminster at the moment? Do all | 0:41:13 | 0:41:18 | |
the MPs feel under pressure? I don't
think the atmosphere is anything | 0:41:18 | 0:41:23 | |
like as bad as what you might get
the impression from the newspapers | 0:41:23 | 0:41:28 | |
but obviously it has been a
troubling week and the fact that | 0:41:28 | 0:41:32 | |
there is sexual harassment and
bullying going on and it appears to | 0:41:32 | 0:41:35 | |
have been tolerated and in some
cases reported and nothing has been | 0:41:35 | 0:41:40 | |
done, it is not a party thing, is
very troubling. There is bullying | 0:41:40 | 0:41:45 | |
and sexual harassment in every
workplace. There is probably sexual | 0:41:45 | 0:41:49 | |
harassment in the BBC and every
employer. It is not surprising it is | 0:41:49 | 0:41:54 | |
airing parliament. We have the added
dimension in Parliament of older | 0:41:54 | 0:41:58 | |
people who are seen to have
authority and younger people working | 0:41:58 | 0:42:02 | |
around them that may feel
vulnerable. That places an extra | 0:42:02 | 0:42:07 | |
obligation on people to be
respectful and be very careful and | 0:42:07 | 0:42:12 | |
plainly not everybody has been. It
is wrong and it is a good thing it | 0:42:12 | 0:42:15 | |
is coming to light but it is still
not pleasant. Somebody who would | 0:42:15 | 0:42:20 | |
like to go there, what is your
reaction? There is a sense of | 0:42:20 | 0:42:25 | |
surprise that there are no workplace
policies and trade unions are not | 0:42:25 | 0:42:29 | |
more involved. This is what we see
in the workplace is I go end. There | 0:42:29 | 0:42:33 | |
is a clear reporting direction.
People know what to do. In a lot of | 0:42:33 | 0:42:43 | |
these cases, these are consenting
adults. Well, are they? That is the | 0:42:43 | 0:42:48 | |
question. It would appeal they are
not all consenting adults and that | 0:42:48 | 0:42:52 | |
is the issue. If they are consenting
adults then there is nothing wrong | 0:42:52 | 0:42:55 | |
with it. And this issue about Kelvin
Hopkins being promoted even though | 0:42:55 | 0:43:00 | |
people knew about the allegations
which were made against him. What is | 0:43:00 | 0:43:04 | |
your reaction? It is a sense of
disappointment. It is not the Kelvin | 0:43:04 | 0:43:11 | |
Hopkins that I thought that I knew.
We don't know what type of | 0:43:11 | 0:43:14 | |
investigation took place and what
actions took place. My understanding | 0:43:14 | 0:43:18 | |
is initially the person concerned
was satisfied at the outcome but | 0:43:18 | 0:43:24 | |
that seems to have changed now. Do
you think this is destabilising for | 0:43:24 | 0:43:28 | |
the Conservative Party and the
government? It does not help. There | 0:43:28 | 0:43:35 | |
may be more revelations to come in
the days and weeks ahead. But I | 0:43:35 | 0:43:40 | |
think every so often we the British
go in for a bout of the brow | 0:43:40 | 0:43:48 | |
hysteria and quite often there is
something to it. In the expenses | 0:43:48 | 0:43:54 | |
crisis, it was over something and
this is over something as well but | 0:43:54 | 0:43:57 | |
you do get the conflation of two
different things, serious | 0:43:57 | 0:44:01 | |
allegations on the one hand and
things that are actually perfectly | 0:44:01 | 0:44:06 | |
private matters, consensual
relations between adults, on the | 0:44:06 | 0:44:09 | |
other. But because it makes good
copy in the tabloid newspapers, it | 0:44:09 | 0:44:13 | |
all gets put in the same hop around
before you know it, you have an | 0:44:13 | 0:44:17 | |
atmosphere in which people feel they
say -- they cannot do or say | 0:44:17 | 0:44:22 | |
anything in case they get reported.
If you are not careful, it is in | 0:44:22 | 0:44:27 | |
danger of becoming an overreaction
but I don't want to give the | 0:44:27 | 0:44:30 | |
impression I don't think this is
serious. It is serious. Any idea | 0:44:30 | 0:44:35 | |
where the allegations are coming
from? Personally, no. There is this | 0:44:35 | 0:44:42 | |
idea of this what's up group, with
staff sharing information, which is | 0:44:42 | 0:44:47 | |
perhaps a good thing, that this
information is available and people | 0:44:47 | 0:44:50 | |
have different interests on both
sides in fostering a problem for the | 0:44:50 | 0:44:54 | |
other side. We will move on.
Let's look at farming now and there | 0:44:54 | 0:45:00 | |
is growing concern about who will
pick our crops. A shortage of | 0:45:00 | 0:45:05 | |
foreign workers Haaretz already cost
one of our biggest companies £1 | 0:45:05 | 0:45:07 | |
million. The crisis has deepened
this summer with a call for a clear | 0:45:07 | 0:45:14 | |
plan from the government after
Brexit. | 0:45:14 | 0:45:19 | |
This nursery grows 400 tonnes of
strawberries each year for a leading | 0:45:19 | 0:45:23 | |
supermarket. Strawberries ripen at
different types, different shades | 0:45:23 | 0:45:30 | |
are red. Supermarkets are discerning
about the quality and the ripeness | 0:45:30 | 0:45:35 | |
of the strawberries, so it needs the
human eye, as far as we are | 0:45:35 | 0:45:38 | |
concerned. But this quintessentially
British fruit is picked by seasonal | 0:45:38 | 0:45:43 | |
workers, mostly from Romania and
Bulgaria. The difference after they | 0:45:43 | 0:45:49 | |
start to vote for Brexit is that the
pound goes so slow, so low in | 0:45:49 | 0:45:54 | |
Romania, for example, before people
start to talk about Brexit, it was | 0:45:54 | 0:45:58 | |
6.3. And now it is 5.2. Something
like that. We are losing quite a lot | 0:45:58 | 0:46:07 | |
of money. That is the only problem
for now for us. The nursery works | 0:46:07 | 0:46:17 | |
hard to have good working conditions
and retain staff but they want | 0:46:17 | 0:46:20 | |
reassurances from the government.
There is this cliff edge that is | 0:46:20 | 0:46:25 | |
creeping up on us and we are not
quite sure how it will pan out. We | 0:46:25 | 0:46:29 | |
would like there to be something in
place as soon as possible so that we | 0:46:29 | 0:46:32 | |
have some sort of certainty on how
we can obtain foreign workers, like | 0:46:32 | 0:46:38 | |
a seasonal scheme, just so that we
have guarantees in the years ahead | 0:46:38 | 0:46:44 | |
of obtaining the rights of the
people. The seasonal worker scheme | 0:46:44 | 0:46:49 | |
operated until 2013 and meant that
farmers could employ workers from | 0:46:49 | 0:46:53 | |
around the world on special
short-term visas. The farming | 0:46:53 | 0:46:56 | |
industry would like the scheme
reintroduced sooner rather than | 0:46:56 | 0:47:00 | |
later but the government says net
migration figures show there are | 0:47:00 | 0:47:06 | |
plenty of workers. The government is
carrying out reviews but one of the | 0:47:06 | 0:47:11 | |
biggest growers in the UK says the
uncertainty is already costing them. | 0:47:11 | 0:47:15 | |
We have had double the number of
early leavers and people who we have | 0:47:15 | 0:47:22 | |
offered jobs to and not showing up.
If current trends continue, there is | 0:47:22 | 0:47:27 | |
a serious probability that we don't
-- we won't have enough workers next | 0:47:27 | 0:47:30 | |
year. The evidence from our members,
the growers, is that we could be | 0:47:30 | 0:47:37 | |
reaching a crunch point next year. I
know of farmers that are reducing | 0:47:37 | 0:47:42 | |
the size of their businesses and the
last thing we want as we leave the | 0:47:42 | 0:47:46 | |
European Union is to export our
farming horticulture and food | 0:47:46 | 0:47:49 | |
business overseas. It is not just
seasonal workers that farmers are | 0:47:49 | 0:47:54 | |
concerned about. Tom Bradshaw owns
hectors of farmland in Essex and is | 0:47:54 | 0:47:59 | |
part of a group of people this group
has brought together to discuss the | 0:47:59 | 0:48:04 | |
effects Brexit on their industry.
This crop of wheat was harvested in | 0:48:04 | 0:48:09 | |
August and might not be sold until
May this year. It is likely to be in | 0:48:09 | 0:48:14 | |
the shed until May 2019, that is
after Brexit. We need some sort of | 0:48:14 | 0:48:19 | |
clarity as to the direction we
should be heading in. As they wait | 0:48:19 | 0:48:25 | |
for answers, many farmers like Tom
are taking matters into their own | 0:48:25 | 0:48:29 | |
hands and diversifying their
business. We set up an equestrian | 0:48:29 | 0:48:33 | |
centre. We only riding school as
well. And now we are looking at | 0:48:33 | 0:48:38 | |
other income screens STREAMS. Make
as less reliant on support going | 0:48:38 | 0:48:48 | |
forward. We are looking at the
opportunity of a swimming pool. | 0:48:48 | 0:48:54 | |
The Brexit negotiations may be
plodding on but farmers planning for | 0:48:54 | 0:48:59 | |
next year may continue to press the
government for more urgent answers. | 0:48:59 | 0:49:06 | |
The government says it recognises a
strong workforce is crucial for | 0:49:06 | 0:49:10 | |
agriculture and has commissioned
advice from the migration advisory | 0:49:10 | 0:49:13 | |
committee. This week the Secretary
of State Michael Gove was asked | 0:49:13 | 0:49:19 | |
about food prices after Brexit. To
focus purely on the process of | 0:49:19 | 0:49:26 | |
leaving the European Union, the
moment at which we leave and the | 0:49:26 | 0:49:30 | |
creation of tariffs as having a
decisive impact on food prices in | 0:49:30 | 0:49:34 | |
the absence of everything else is to
look at only one part of the | 0:49:34 | 0:49:38 | |
landscape.
Is he right? Well, yes, I think | 0:49:38 | 0:49:49 | |
there is a growing concern there and
certainly in our area when we look | 0:49:49 | 0:49:54 | |
at fisheries and food processing,
there is very little margin for | 0:49:54 | 0:49:57 | |
profit. And bringing in different
tariffs could prove significantly | 0:49:57 | 0:50:03 | |
detrimental. You both operate in
Norfolk and Norfolk has a lot of | 0:50:03 | 0:50:10 | |
migrant workers coming in. This is a
problem which some people were | 0:50:10 | 0:50:14 | |
talking about before the Brexit
vote. The scheme which was mentioned | 0:50:14 | 0:50:18 | |
in your package has been running for
60 years. It would be relatively | 0:50:18 | 0:50:23 | |
easy to set it up again. Farmers
preferred it because they get a Visa | 0:50:23 | 0:50:28 | |
for a particular workplace and
period and when you have completely | 0:50:28 | 0:50:31 | |
free movement, people have earned
enough money and they disappear for | 0:50:31 | 0:50:35 | |
a few weeks and they cannot get the
continuity of supplies. In some | 0:50:35 | 0:50:41 | |
ways, having a scheme like this is
actually better and I suspect that | 0:50:41 | 0:50:43 | |
is where we will end up. Personally
I think it would have been sensible | 0:50:43 | 0:50:48 | |
to keep it in place and now we are
going to have Brexit, it may come | 0:50:48 | 0:50:52 | |
back at some point. And you actually
overriding the Greek holiday? The | 0:50:52 | 0:51:02 | |
continuity of supply is likely to be
higher if you have got a Visa that | 0:51:02 | 0:51:06 | |
only applies to a specific workplace
for a specific duration. Farmers | 0:51:06 | 0:51:10 | |
have said to me they prefer that.
One of the fundamental issues you | 0:51:10 | 0:51:14 | |
are not taking on board is that
people are choosing not to come here | 0:51:14 | 0:51:17 | |
to work because the value of the
pound is not as good as it used to | 0:51:17 | 0:51:21 | |
be. We are going to face
difficulties. It is a whole range of | 0:51:21 | 0:51:26 | |
different issues. One of the
advantages... You have highlighted a | 0:51:26 | 0:51:31 | |
disadvantage. One of the advantages
is that it is easier to exporter and | 0:51:31 | 0:51:38 | |
given that we import three times
more food than we export, that will | 0:51:38 | 0:51:41 | |
help create that balance. I am
hoping we will come to a point where | 0:51:41 | 0:51:45 | |
we start to produce more of our own
food. But there will be no one to | 0:51:45 | 0:51:50 | |
pick it. Eventually, people will
have to do pay more to attract | 0:51:50 | 0:51:55 | |
workers and the price of food will
go up. Since we have been facing | 0:51:55 | 0:51:59 | |
tariffs from New Zealand, Africa, in
order to keep African farmers poor | 0:51:59 | 0:52:05 | |
while having French farmers get rich
in essence, actually... Paddy | 0:52:05 | 0:52:10 | |
Ashdown was campaigning for a 90
said we would have lower food prices | 0:52:10 | 0:52:14 | |
if we left the EU and he was right.
That is one of the points. We are | 0:52:14 | 0:52:19 | |
seeing farming industry is looking
to diversify and it could be they | 0:52:19 | 0:52:23 | |
are not going to continue. It is
good thing to have a diversify | 0:52:23 | 0:52:27 | |
model. The farmer in the package,
the last thing he should do is | 0:52:27 | 0:52:35 | |
consult government. He should figure
it out. It is a business decision | 0:52:35 | 0:52:38 | |
for him. They want certainty. And
they are not getting it. They can't | 0:52:38 | 0:52:46 | |
have it happen more. They are in
business. As you will know, most of | 0:52:46 | 0:52:52 | |
the subsidies that have been coming
through the EU, and the government | 0:52:52 | 0:52:56 | |
is committed to maintaining them for
the next five years, have been | 0:52:56 | 0:53:00 | |
environment protection schemes. The
way you decide whether or not to | 0:53:00 | 0:53:06 | |
produce food is if you can sell it
and that is the way it should be. At | 0:53:06 | 0:53:10 | |
the moment, we all benefit from
being part of the single market but | 0:53:10 | 0:53:13 | |
that is good change. We don't know
what tariffs are going to be in | 0:53:13 | 0:53:16 | |
place. I think there is a genuine
risk of food prices going up. In | 0:53:16 | 0:53:26 | |
Norfolk and Suffolk 41% of the
people that do the seafood | 0:53:26 | 0:53:29 | |
processing are from the EU. Without
them there to deliver this service, | 0:53:29 | 0:53:35 | |
it is inevitable that food prices
will increase. Since we import far | 0:53:35 | 0:53:43 | |
more food than we export, if what we
say about tariffs is true, it will | 0:53:43 | 0:53:46 | |
hit the imports far harder than it
will hit exports and it will | 0:53:46 | 0:53:50 | |
encourage the British farming sector
to grow. It will still mean an | 0:53:50 | 0:53:55 | |
increase in the price of food. Not
necessarily. We produce 60% of our | 0:53:55 | 0:54:01 | |
own food. It has been a bad thing.
Having a situation where we can | 0:54:01 | 0:54:06 | |
actually control our own industry
rather than having to obey rules | 0:54:06 | 0:54:09 | |
fungal disease is a good thing for
British farming. | 0:54:09 | 0:54:21 | |
It all started seven months ago when
the Cambridgeshire MP Stephen | 0:54:22 | 0:54:26 | |
Berkley raised questions about an
enterprise was being run. An enquiry | 0:54:26 | 0:54:34 | |
was set up. The government froze
nearly £38 million which should have | 0:54:34 | 0:54:40 | |
gone there while the investigation
took place. Some businesses may have | 0:54:40 | 0:54:42 | |
suffered. Last month, the mayor said
he should take over a report by the | 0:54:42 | 0:54:55 | |
National Audit Office is expected
later this month. The mayor has | 0:54:55 | 0:55:03 | |
acknowledged he and the LEP do not
see eye to eye and he would like to | 0:55:03 | 0:55:06 | |
see a shared executive. We are in
the situation we are in and the | 0:55:06 | 0:55:11 | |
money is not available and that
means we have got to deal with the | 0:55:11 | 0:55:14 | |
problems. We are trying to sort this
situation. We want to sort the | 0:55:14 | 0:55:19 | |
situation. The options have been put
forward. What we are trying to do is | 0:55:19 | 0:55:24 | |
make sure the money comes from
government into the business and the | 0:55:24 | 0:55:29 | |
surrounding area. We are trained to
do the right thing and move on. | 0:55:29 | 0:55:37 | |
The chairman of the LEP couldn't
join us today but all that he is | 0:55:37 | 0:55:43 | |
confident the LEP has been compliant
since July and has nothing to add to | 0:55:43 | 0:55:46 | |
what he said last month when he was
asked if he was embarrassed about | 0:55:46 | 0:55:49 | |
the situation. I am not embarrassed
by it at all. They should be | 0:55:49 | 0:55:54 | |
embarrassed. They should be
embarrassed by causing this | 0:55:54 | 0:55:59 | |
situation and causing the problems
they have cause. Our position is | 0:55:59 | 0:56:02 | |
straightforward. There is no grounds
for the proposition. Why would we be | 0:56:02 | 0:56:09 | |
embarrassed? Do we need a LEP
one-day mayor? It might be a good | 0:56:09 | 0:56:15 | |
idea if they became one. When the
idea was brought forward, which was | 0:56:15 | 0:56:23 | |
controversial, some people were
arguing that with the police and | 0:56:23 | 0:56:26 | |
Fire Commissioner, it would be five
layers of government. The idea was | 0:56:26 | 0:56:32 | |
that the local enterprise
partnership eventually became the | 0:56:32 | 0:56:36 | |
bureaucracy, the infrastructure and
the funding for a directly elected | 0:56:36 | 0:56:39 | |
mayor, that should be the direction
of travel. It has not been gripped | 0:56:39 | 0:56:44 | |
with enough confidence and there
have been a look of -- a lot of | 0:56:44 | 0:56:52 | |
local opposition. I actually think
that the chaotic way that the LEPs | 0:56:52 | 0:57:00 | |
setup goes to show this is
undemocratic and these chickens are | 0:57:00 | 0:57:03 | |
now coming home to roost. The mayor
is democratically elected. You don't | 0:57:03 | 0:57:13 | |
have one in Norfolk but if the...
You would not mind therefore if he | 0:57:13 | 0:57:21 | |
took on the role? I am uncomfortable
with the position of mayor because I | 0:57:21 | 0:57:26 | |
think we have too many layers of
government. What happens to our | 0:57:26 | 0:57:31 | |
democratically elected councillors?
This is millions and millions of | 0:57:31 | 0:57:35 | |
pounds coming into our area and it
is not being spent, it is not open, | 0:57:35 | 0:57:40 | |
not transparent. I am not confident
that the mayor is a position that we | 0:57:40 | 0:57:46 | |
should be having. We have a system
in place at the moment, counsellors, | 0:57:46 | 0:57:51 | |
borough councillors, county
councillors. But they are far more | 0:57:51 | 0:57:54 | |
in touch with what is happening in
their local communities. The overall | 0:57:54 | 0:58:01 | |
area of control for the mayor is
massive. We do have problems with | 0:58:01 | 0:58:06 | |
LEPs across the region? I think they
vary. | 0:58:06 | 0:58:14 | |
There are bigger problems with the
Greater Cambridge and Peterborough | 0:58:14 | 0:58:16 | |
one. The National office have worked
with them for 16 years and it is not | 0:58:16 | 0:58:21 | |
likely launch enquiries and it has
done so in this case. The board | 0:58:21 | 0:58:28 | |
minutes of the LEP say there are
serious concerns there has been a | 0:58:28 | 0:58:32 | |
breakdown of confidence by central
government in the LEP and that is a | 0:58:32 | 0:58:35 | |
serious breakdown of confidence.
There is a case to answer. We will | 0:58:35 | 0:58:39 | |
await with interest the conclusion
of the report. You think the one in | 0:58:39 | 0:58:45 | |
Norfolk and Suffolk has done quite
well but you are not quite sure. | 0:58:45 | 0:58:49 | |
Absolutely. I don't see a
significant impact of it. As I said | 0:58:49 | 0:58:53 | |
before, we have a low-income economy
and we have the biggest income | 0:58:53 | 0:58:59 | |
inequality in Norfolk and Suffolk
and so I don't see that the positive | 0:58:59 | 0:59:02 | |
impact that you are talking about
from the LEP. I think both of you | 0:59:02 | 0:59:08 | |
say you may do without the LEP
eventually? Not necessarily. I | 0:59:08 | 0:59:13 | |
personally would like to see it
under a democratically accountable | 0:59:13 | 0:59:16 | |
head. We have 414 councillors in
Norfolk and that is not including | 0:59:16 | 0:59:23 | |
the parish councillors. It feels a
bit top-heavy to me. I think we need | 0:59:23 | 0:59:29 | |
streamlining and reform and the LEP
should be under the control of a | 0:59:29 | 0:59:34 | |
democratically elected figure and I
personally like the idea of a | 0:59:34 | 0:59:40 | |
democratically elected mayor, but it
needs the support of local people. | 0:59:40 | 0:59:49 | |
There is the need for greater
infrastructure funding. We know how | 0:59:49 | 0:59:52 | |
terrible the roads are. OK. Now for
our round-up of the political week | 0:59:52 | 1:00:01 | |
in 60 seconds. | 1:00:01 | 1:00:12 | |
Turmoil on Great Yarmouth Council.
Seven out of 12 Ukip councillors | 1:00:13 | 1:00:18 | |
defected to the Conservatives who
took overall control of the council | 1:00:18 | 1:00:20 | |
this week. Very proud of the
achievements that Ukip made but I | 1:00:20 | 1:00:26 | |
feel now we are not getting any
direction from head office. And I | 1:00:26 | 1:00:31 | |
feel that I need to be with a party
that is good to follow the Brexit | 1:00:31 | 1:00:36 | |
fold. Northamptonshire County
Council has banned new stationery | 1:00:36 | 1:00:39 | |
orders and colour printing according
to a leaked e-mail. MPs have held a | 1:00:39 | 1:00:44 | |
emergency meeting with the Local
Government Secretary about the | 1:00:44 | 1:00:47 | |
financial crisis. The Police
Commissioner for Essex has made a | 1:00:47 | 1:00:51 | |
plea for more money to help the
service tackle crime, particularly | 1:00:51 | 1:00:56 | |
terrorism. Roger Hurst was
addressing the national confidence | 1:00:56 | 1:01:00 | |
that conference of Police and Crime
Commissioners. We are asking a lot | 1:01:00 | 1:01:04 | |
of the officers and staff at the
moment. And Norwich MP Clive Lewis | 1:01:04 | 1:01:10 | |
came to the speaker 's attention and
not in a good way. Mr Lewis... I am | 1:01:10 | 1:01:20 | |
sure what is on your iPhone is
important but your question is of | 1:01:20 | 1:01:24 | |
greater importance. Get in there,
man. | 1:01:24 | 1:01:31 | |
You MPs just love that. Being told
off by the speaker. | 1:01:31 | 1:01:40 | |
The police thing is an interesting
thing because they are reaching a | 1:01:40 | 1:01:45 | |
point now where they don't feel they
are doing the job well enough. I was | 1:01:45 | 1:01:51 | |
always slightly sceptical about it
because to me it felt a little bit | 1:01:51 | 1:01:54 | |
like trying to do it on the cheap.
They weren't cheap. That's the | 1:01:54 | 1:01:58 | |
problem. It partly depends on the
kind of philosophy of the top man or | 1:01:58 | 1:02:04 | |
woman, the chief cancelled, and we
had a chief cancelled that believed | 1:02:04 | 1:02:09 | |
in them passionately and now we have
one that does not. I like police | 1:02:09 | 1:02:14 | |
officers that can chase people and
arrest people. The point we are | 1:02:14 | 1:02:18 | |
making with Roger Hurst was actually
that they cannot plan for the | 1:02:18 | 1:02:21 | |
future. It is all about intelligence
work. Absolutely and without the PC | 1:02:21 | 1:02:27 | |
SO being there in the community,
they are going to miss that | 1:02:27 | 1:02:30 | |
intelligence. For many of our
communities, they are the only | 1:02:30 | 1:02:35 | |
visible faces that they see. In
Norfolk, they are very clear about | 1:02:35 | 1:02:44 | |
saying, there will be 81 extra
constables who will be beat | 1:02:44 | 1:02:47 | |
officers. Well, we haven't seen
that. The changing face of crime is | 1:02:47 | 1:02:53 | |
going to be... It's only just
started. Let's end there. That is | 1:02:53 | 1:03:00 | |
all. You can watch this player on
iPlayer -- programme on iPlayer. | 1:03:00 | 1:03:05 | |
to support. | 1:03:06 | 1:03:07 | |
All right, and at that point
we have to end it there. | 1:03:07 | 1:03:10 | |
My thanks to Rosena and Andrew,
and with that it's back to Sarah. | 1:03:10 | 1:03:12 | |
It's been a tricky
week for Theresa May - | 1:03:12 | 1:03:15 | |
again, you might think. | 1:03:15 | 1:03:15 | |
She's lost a Cabinet minister
and been forced into a reshuffle | 1:03:15 | 1:03:18 | |
which did little for party unity,
to say nothing of losing a Commons | 1:03:18 | 1:03:21 | |
vote on Brexit and yet more reports
of fireworks in Cabinet meetings - | 1:03:21 | 1:03:24 | |
this time apparently over housing. | 1:03:24 | 1:03:26 | |
So, is the Prime Minister's time
in office going with a bang | 1:03:26 | 1:03:28 | |
or more of a whimper? | 1:03:28 | 1:03:30 | |
Well, we sent Ellie Price | 1:03:30 | 1:03:31 | |
and the entirely unscientific
Sunday Politics moodbox | 1:03:31 | 1:03:33 | |
to Conservative-held Surrey,
to find out. | 1:03:33 | 1:03:35 | |
ALL: Three, two, one. | 1:03:35 | 1:03:38 | |
# Ignite the light
and let it shine...# | 1:03:38 | 1:03:44 | |
It's a tale of lit fuses, plots,
conspiracy, treachery, | 1:03:45 | 1:03:48 | |
but enough of the recent goings
on in the Conservative Party, | 1:03:48 | 1:03:52 | |
it's firework night here
in Guildford and we're asking, | 1:03:52 | 1:03:56 | |
does Theresa May have control
of her Government and her party? | 1:03:56 | 1:03:58 | |
Yes or no? | 1:03:58 | 1:03:59 | |
# Baby you're a firework...# | 1:03:59 | 1:04:05 | |
With all the scandals in Government
at the moment | 1:04:05 | 1:04:07 | |
and Brexit seems to be dragging on
a little bit longer than we thought. | 1:04:07 | 1:04:10 | |
So, at the moment, I don't think
she is in control. | 1:04:10 | 1:04:14 | |
She's too many people sniping
at her back, really. | 1:04:16 | 1:04:20 | |
Do you think Theresa
May's in control? | 1:04:20 | 1:04:21 | |
I think she's in control. | 1:04:21 | 1:04:23 | |
She's in a good job
having a tough time. | 1:04:23 | 1:04:25 | |
No, I don't. | 1:04:25 | 1:04:26 | |
I think she's a mess. | 1:04:26 | 1:04:27 | |
Even when you read her body language
when she's being interviewed | 1:04:27 | 1:04:30 | |
by people, she doesn't
seem like she's in control. | 1:04:30 | 1:04:33 | |
I think she has poor advisers. | 1:04:33 | 1:04:37 | |
I'm going to put it in the "yes". | 1:04:39 | 1:04:43 | |
I do think she's struggling but,
I still hope, still think she has | 1:04:43 | 1:04:46 | |
a bit of a grip on them. | 1:04:46 | 1:04:49 | |
The Queen is England's role. | 1:04:49 | 1:04:52 | |
It's her birth right. | 1:04:52 | 1:04:54 | |
She is England's role
of this country. | 1:04:54 | 1:04:57 | |
I'm going to vote for Theresa May. | 1:04:57 | 1:05:00 | |
I don't think there's anyone
who could do a better job. | 1:05:00 | 1:05:03 | |
I think she's had a bit of
a poisoned chalice with Brexit but | 1:05:03 | 1:05:06 | |
I think she could have done better. | 1:05:06 | 1:05:08 | |
The money's not going
to where it needs to go. | 1:05:08 | 1:05:10 | |
I think she should resign, really. | 1:05:10 | 1:05:12 | |
I feel a bit sorry
for her, actually. | 1:05:12 | 1:05:15 | |
I think she's been witch-hunted
a little bit. | 1:05:15 | 1:05:16 | |
She's doing her best. | 1:05:16 | 1:05:20 | |
With everything that's
going on with the Cabinet at the | 1:05:20 | 1:05:22 | |
moment, I think the Conservative
Party is in a real mess, actually. | 1:05:22 | 1:05:26 | |
Very disappointed. | 1:05:26 | 1:05:28 | |
Well, you get bickering in all parts
not just the Conservative Party. | 1:05:28 | 1:05:34 | |
And that's just sort
of par for the course. | 1:05:34 | 1:05:36 | |
But I'm sure she'll
hold everybody together | 1:05:36 | 1:05:39 | |
despite the current difficulties. | 1:05:39 | 1:05:41 | |
The Tories weren't in control
when they had the referendum | 1:05:41 | 1:05:43 | |
in the first place for the euro. | 1:05:43 | 1:05:46 | |
We've had two years
of complete chaos. | 1:05:46 | 1:05:48 | |
I don't see an end to it. | 1:05:48 | 1:05:52 | |
Well, I seem to have
acquired a few new friends. | 1:05:52 | 1:05:54 | |
The oohs and ahs are
over and so the moodbox | 1:05:54 | 1:05:57 | |
and the result is... | 1:05:57 | 1:06:01 | |
No. | 1:06:01 | 1:06:02 | |
The majority of people
here in Guildford | 1:06:02 | 1:06:04 | |
don't think Theresa May
is in control. | 1:06:04 | 1:06:06 | |
CHEERING | 1:06:07 | 1:06:10 | |
That was Ellie with the entirely
unscientific moodbox, and thanks | 1:06:10 | 1:06:13 | |
to Bushy Hill Junior School
in Guildford for having her along. | 1:06:13 | 1:06:20 | |
Let's put the Sorbol question to our
panel. Equally unscientific but all | 1:06:20 | 1:06:24 | |
seasoned Westminster watchers. Is
Theresa May in control of her | 1:06:24 | 1:06:27 | |
Government at the moment or is all
of this sex harassment allegations | 1:06:27 | 1:06:33 | |
swimming around loosening her grip?
Depends what you mean by in control. | 1:06:33 | 1:06:37 | |
All Prime Ministers have a degree of
control. They retain the power much | 1:06:37 | 1:06:44 | |
tat wrongage as we saw with her
reshuffle. Didn't go down well with | 1:06:44 | 1:06:48 | |
her MPs but she did it. You can't be
fully in control of these situations | 1:06:48 | 1:06:53 | |
in effectively what is a hung
Parliament. If she won a land sheep | 1:06:53 | 1:06:56 | |
in the election she would have the
authority to do what she wanted. She | 1:06:56 | 1:07:00 | |
could float over something like
this. Stories like this, you could | 1:07:00 | 1:07:04 | |
say she's perfectly suited for it,
the vicar's daughter, the church | 1:07:04 | 1:07:08 | |
goer, to sort it out. It is much
more complicated than that. I don't | 1:07:08 | 1:07:12 | |
think she will be able to get a full
grip of it. There are some practical | 1:07:12 | 1:07:15 | |
things that need to happen that will
happen. I remember with back to | 1:07:15 | 1:07:20 | |
basics and John Major, that equally
vague scandal, what was back to | 1:07:20 | 1:07:24 | |
basics about? It was still running
months afterwards, stories about a | 1:07:24 | 1:07:30 | |
minister having an affair. This is
different. I can see it will be | 1:07:30 | 1:07:34 | |
impossible for her to fully get to
grips with it. Does it provide an | 1:07:34 | 1:07:38 | |
opportunity for Theresa May to be
seen to be taking really serious | 1:07:38 | 1:07:41 | |
action, trying to root out a bad
culture in Westminster and therefore | 1:07:41 | 1:07:45 | |
get some political credit for it?
That opportunity was available to | 1:07:45 | 1:07:49 | |
her all of last week and she hasn't
taken it. What's remarkable for me | 1:07:49 | 1:07:55 | |
is the near complete breakdown in
discipline in the higher ranks the | 1:07:55 | 1:07:58 | |
Tory Party. It is extraordinary you
have Cabinet level ministers who are | 1:07:58 | 1:08:03 | |
not supporting their colleagues.
Ministers and former ministers | 1:08:03 | 1:08:07 | |
giving interviews in which they slag
off their former colleagues. It is | 1:08:07 | 1:08:10 | |
an absolute unholy mess. There is no
sense that she is gripping this. Or | 1:08:10 | 1:08:15 | |
has any particular solution. I think
we can have a lot of sympathy for | 1:08:15 | 1:08:19 | |
her in terms of finding a solution.
How on earth do you grip a problem | 1:08:19 | 1:08:23 | |
like this where you're talking about
apparently an indefinite period of | 1:08:23 | 1:08:31 | |
retrospective examination of
potential faults. 15 years is no | 1:08:31 | 1:08:34 | |
longer too historic for somebody to
dredge up some small thing that may | 1:08:34 | 1:08:38 | |
or may not have happened to them. It
is very difficult for her. But she's | 1:08:38 | 1:08:42 | |
being battered around by events.
Where does this story go next? I | 1:08:42 | 1:08:49 | |
think the whip's office on every
party, Tories, Labour, Liberal | 1:08:49 | 1:08:53 | |
Democrats, SNP all have their own
whipping operations. That seems to | 1:08:53 | 1:08:56 | |
be the place of it really. This is
because, where do we draw the line? | 1:08:56 | 1:09:01 | |
Going forward what mechanisms are
put in place to top this helping | 1:09:01 | 1:09:05 | |
again. To take allegations
seriously, report them and | 1:09:05 | 1:09:09 | |
investigate them independently. Or
is there a bigger job to go back | 1:09:09 | 1:09:14 | |
into the past retrospective, who
knew what when as Nia said about | 1:09:14 | 1:09:19 | |
Kelvin Hopkins. This is a Shadow
Defence Secretary saying what did | 1:09:19 | 1:09:23 | |
the Labour Party leader know about
Kelvin Hopkins' allegations when he | 1:09:23 | 1:09:28 | |
promoted him? Theresa May is unable
to do the retrospective bit. She's | 1:09:28 | 1:09:32 | |
simply too weak. I asked this of
Number Ten last week. Why are you | 1:09:32 | 1:09:37 | |
not more front-foot the on this.
They said they would be if they | 1:09:37 | 1:09:41 | |
possibly could be. She's running a
minority Government. She cannot be | 1:09:41 | 1:09:45 | |
seen to be going after a witch-hunt
on her own people. So, I think this | 1:09:45 | 1:09:50 | |
goes on. Enof thebly what the whips
new -- inevitably what the whips | 1:09:50 | 1:09:58 | |
knew will be parment. Amber Rudd did
the same thing on Andrew Marr. They | 1:09:58 | 1:10:07 | |
are being precise about the fact
they didn't know anything. Sarah | 1:10:07 | 1:10:13 | |
Newton said she heard no allegations
about her flock, the the MPs she was | 1:10:13 | 1:10:17 | |
in charge of rather than rumours
about any other Tories. Amber Rudd | 1:10:17 | 1:10:23 | |
say, I do not recognise the more
lurid allegations. What about the | 1:10:23 | 1:10:29 | |
less lurid once? So, this smells
very, very bad indeed. Jeremy | 1:10:29 | 1:10:33 | |
Corbyn's going to have to answer
some of these questions as well? | 1:10:33 | 1:10:39 | |
Yeah, but the whip's thing is a red
herring. Their remit is to get the | 1:10:39 | 1:10:44 | |
vote out for the Government
fundamentally. Everybody knows that. | 1:10:44 | 1:10:46 | |
They are not there, it is one of the
problems. They are not there to be | 1:10:46 | 1:10:50 | |
moral guides to these MPs. They are
there to win votes for the | 1:10:50 | 1:10:54 | |
Government or the opposition if that
becomes possible. And deal brutally | 1:10:54 | 1:10:59 | |
with MPs to make sure they get out
and vote. Of course they knew | 1:10:59 | 1:11:02 | |
virtually everything. But whether
they were obliged to act as moral | 1:11:02 | 1:11:07 | |
guard yawns in these situations, I
don't think they were. It was not | 1:11:07 | 1:11:11 | |
part of their job. Maybe you need
moral guardians in there but not the | 1:11:11 | 1:11:15 | |
whips. Normally, less than
three-weeks out from a budget that's | 1:11:15 | 1:11:20 | |
what we'd been talking about.
Dominating our conversation. Given | 1:11:20 | 1:11:23 | |
that's set for November 22nd, is
that an opportunity for the | 1:11:23 | 1:11:26 | |
Government to seize back control of
the story? Philip Hammond may be | 1:11:26 | 1:11:31 | |
glad we're not spending too much
time talking about the budget. It | 1:11:31 | 1:11:34 | |
should be an opportunity for the
Government to seize the agenda, draw | 1:11:34 | 1:11:39 | |
a line under all of this. I think
one of the very difficult as pects | 1:11:39 | 1:11:43 | |
of this so-called scandal for the
Government to manage is knowing | 1:11:43 | 1:11:47 | |
quite how long it will run. In the
normal scheme of things they lose | 1:11:47 | 1:11:50 | |
steam after a couple of weeks. But
there are so many potential gayses | 1:11:50 | 1:11:55 | |
that could come out, it might run
longer than that. Rather like the | 1:11:55 | 1:11:59 | |
expenses scandal. But there is an
opportunity at the budget to reset | 1:11:59 | 1:12:03 | |
the' again da. I just don't think
Philip Hammond will take it. I think | 1:12:03 | 1:12:08 | |
he's a very caution Chancellor. At
the moment, there is a feeling | 1:12:08 | 1:12:11 | |
Theresa May's leadership is so weak
it will be too dangerous for them to | 1:12:11 | 1:12:17 | |
do anything particularly dram attic
why. I expect a steady as you go | 1:12:17 | 1:12:22 | |
budget where they will be hoping not
to make any mistakes. You say there | 1:12:22 | 1:12:26 | |
is disagreement in the Cabinet about
what should be in the budget? | 1:12:26 | 1:12:32 | |
Disagreement between the Chancellor
and the Prime Minister. The | 1:12:32 | 1:12:38 | |
witch-hunt is hiding a huge story
which is the incredible dysfunction | 1:12:38 | 1:12:42 | |
between Number Ten and number 11.
Philip Hammond and Theresa May can't | 1:12:42 | 1:12:45 | |
bear to be in the same room with
each other let alone agreeing what's | 1:12:45 | 1:12:50 | |
in the budget. It is coming down to
housing. Everybody agrees it has to | 1:12:50 | 1:12:54 | |
be the centrepiece of the budget.
They have to get more houses built. | 1:12:54 | 1:13:00 | |
Philip Hammond wands that bee
deregulation. Theresa May wants to | 1:13:00 | 1:13:05 | |
are borrow up to 50 billion
merchandise more for the Government | 1:13:05 | 1:13:08 | |
to build for themselves. | 1:13:08 | 1:13:09 | |
That's all for today. | 1:13:09 | 1:13:10 | |
There's no Sunday Politics
next weekend | 1:13:10 | 1:13:13 | |
while Parliament is in recess, | 1:13:13 | 1:13:14 | |
but I'll be back here at 11am
on BBC One in two weeks' time. | 1:13:14 | 1:13:17 | |
Until then, bye bye. | 1:13:17 | 1:13:22 |